Pybites Podcast

#177 - From Dancing to Python: Sara Moad's Inspiring Tech Transition

• Julian Sequeira & Bob Belderbos

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What happens when a professional dancer trades it in for a keyboard? Join us as we uncover the incredible journey of Sara Moad, who went from being a professional dancer to managing tech solutions as a Solutions Architect at Sydney Airport.

Her transition wasn't just about switching careers; it was about embracing change, self-belief, and the profound impact of soft skills cultivated in teaching children. Sara shares her story of stepping into the tech world during the COVID-19 pandemic, inspired by friends and fuelled by a yearning for fresh challenges.

Sara's path is sprinkled with invaluable insights for anyone dreaming of a tech career. She shows how personality and empathy, honed through years of teaching dance, have been her greatest allies on this new stage. Her involvement with the Girls Programming Network is a testament to her belief in inclusivity in tech, as she passionately teaches Python and champions the importance of community support. With Sara, we explore how to overcome imposter syndrome and the power of connecting with those around us to find our footing in unfamiliar territory.

For those feeling the itch to transition, Sara offers more than inspiration—she provides a roadmap. From setting short-term goals to exploring personal projects, her advice is about aligning your career with your passions. She emphasises leveraging networks and communication to uncover opportunities and shares anecdotes about how hobbies like playing Dungeons & Dragons can bolster skills vital in tech.

Sara's story is a celebration of discovering joy in building tech solutions that resonate with one's own experiences and interests.

Links:


Chapters:
0:00 - From Dance to Python
4:50 - Transitioning Careers in Tech
15:19 - Navigating the Tech Transition
19:42 - Building Confidence and Finding Career Paths
33:10 - Exploring Perspectives in Tech Education

Speaker 1:

it's best to understand actually what you're talking about or what code is. So Python is a very good, easy beginner language, and by easy I mean it's not easy when you're first starting out the first couple of days, but what I mean by that is a great way to learn the basic concepts, the basic syntax, how your mind must work when it comes to programming, because it's about problem solving and it's about understanding. You know, sometimes it could be as simple, as there's a space or you haven't put a parentheses somewhere, and that's it that destroys your code. And so, yeah, having something like python is a very forgiving code language, um, and so my recommendation would be Hello and welcome to the PyBytes podcast, where we talk about Python career and mindset.

Speaker 2:

We're your hosts. I'm Julian Sequeira.

Speaker 3:

And I am Bob Beldebos. If you're looking to improve your Python, your career and learn the mindset for success, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started.

Speaker 2:

This is the podcast for you. Let's get started. Welcome back to the Pi Bytes podcast. This is Julian. I am here with a very special guest today. We're going to jump straight in. I'd like to introduce you all to Sarah Mode. Sarah is a solutions architect at Sydney Airport. So local, homegrown talent here in Australia. I love it, Sarah. Welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for that warm introduction. Hi everyone, I'm Sarah. I'm a bit about myself. I am a dance professional turned into a solution architect. I'm so excited to tell you a bit about my journey, but what I do really at the moment is I'm very much focused in business units within Sydney Airport, making sure that I provide the correct solutions to help our business functions and help the airport run um. I also do some volunteer on the side for girls programming network, which is run by a company, a non-profit company, called tech inclusion, where we teach python to students in high school for women or in non-binary individuals um yeah, that's about me, yeah no, that's awesome.

Speaker 2:

Well, thank you for being here, sarah, and, uh, for everyone listening. You know, this is one of those stories that I'm always harping on about and going getting very aggressive about saying tech is for anyone and for everyone and really there is a subset of skills and behaviors and habits that get you over that line to get into tech. So, as you're listening to this, before we even dive in, I want you to start thinking about people in your life that are potentially interested in tech or in non-tech roles, who need some inspiration to believe in themselves, because that's what it starts with. That's exactly what it starts with. So we have a lot to talk about.

Speaker 2:

So I'm going to dive straight into this and, sarah, I'm just pretty much going to go on mute. Normally, I love to talk. I'm joking, everyone knows I love to talk, but I'm going to get you to talk now. And the thing you gave away the gold right at the start, you used to be in dance, so there is a journey here from dance to a solutions architecture tech role, coding in Python, teaching Python. It's crazy. So why don't we start at the start? Take a few minutes and just go through that journey to the essay role, and let's see where this goes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah for sure. Look, it's a very interesting journey, even from my perspective. When I reflect back on it, I even recall some of the comments I got as I started the transition and people were quite surprised when they found out while I was teaching dance to children in in childcare that I was currently studying to do full stack development. At the same time, to say that shock was like immense as an understanding. However, we to start off so kind of what happened was I have done dancing for over. I would say done dancing for over I would say 15 years at this rate, if not longer, and I wanted to do dance professionally. I love dance and it still holds a big part of my life, but I wanted to do it professionally. So I did a Bachelor of Dance and I danced and performed with a dance company called Bonnie Curtis Projects. I performed with a 103 year old woman who still creates her works called Eileen Kramer. And then I was teaching full time in childcare with students from zero to five and we did dance and drama and it was such a joy to bring such creativity and like their imagination to life and we'd do all these things together.

Speaker 1:

However, covid hit and I got incredibly burnt out. I wasn't able to go to my childcare centers anymore, and I just got to the point where I realized it just wasn't sustainable for me and that I wanted something new in my life, which I feel like a lot of people I have discussed, a lot of people have changed their careers through this time of COVID, because it made people reassess what was really important to them, and another aspect that I always wanted to pursue was a way of being able to create a really positive impact on other people's lives. I wanted to be able to see that impact and know that I had a hand in that. But how I did it was very open, and I had a discussion with a lot of my friends and people that I really trusted to give me their feedback, and I have quite a few friends who work in technology in a variety of different roles, and something that really stood out to me was how flexible or how much you could make an impact in lots of different areas in technology, because it's always advancing, it's always growing and it's always learning, and so when I heard that, I wanted to explore it and see if this was my way forward to making this impact, so I started learning full stack development, which was quite a challenge, as I started with JavaScript, which is, as many know, not a very easy language. To start with, good choice, yeah, it's a really good language to understand, but very tricky when that's your kind of first, I guess introduction to coding, especially because it was something completely different to anything I'd done before. Yeah, and so I will not lie and say that it was easy.

Speaker 1:

It was incredibly difficult. I would go through these cycles of self-doubt. I'd get a concept and I'd be on that rise, I'd be going to that top of that mountain peak and that I'd hit a new problem and I would just completely crash and go what am I doing? Why have I done this? This is a terrible decision. And then I would figure it out and I would continue that cycle, and what got me through were the people that were around me, encouraging me, seeing what I was developing become real, because, especially with full stack development, you're building something from scratch, and so being able to have a look at that and see what I made right there in front of me was fantastic. But I was really missing that transition into how could I make this into a role, how could I do this as a job and that's where Knowledgey came in.

Speaker 1:

Knowledgey was this really great program which you know would teach me all the things I needed to know before I was ready to go into a role and just having the, of course, the educators teaching us all that they knew and they were so eager to provide their knowledge and extra knowledge and preparing us also for job interviews and preparing us for roles. And something that always stuck with me was we can always train skills, but we can't train personality, and so what they looked at for us was very much who are you as a person, what skills you've brought are actually going to be the tools that are going to, or the skills that set you apart from the rest, and that anything that you've learned will always help you in the future. And that was something they kind of really instilled in us. And so, as I'm building there and that was it's the three month program of really training and developing and building things, and that that takes a lot of effort there was definitely a lot of late nights in there, definitely nearly some all-nighters but it taught me the skills I needed and developed that knowledge while also preparing me for the future, and I was able to.

Speaker 1:

Then through Knowledgey, after I graduated from their program, they set up an interview with Sydney Airport and it was for a solution architect role and I was not prepared for that. I didn't feel like I had. I was like I don't have the technical skills for that per chance. But Sydney airport as well were very open to the fact that they, like skills can be taught. Same level of thinking we wanted. They wanted someone who had the stakeholder management skills. You know, those capabilities to understand people, have that patience and just understand it from somebody else's perspective. And so it allowed me to. They kind of were more open to be like we'll train you the business side and the technology side. But we can develop those skills. But what we need is a person that can handle our stakeholders and provide for them.

Speaker 1:

And I remember going for that interview and talking to my friends. I talked to my mum about it. We also had a family friend who worked in the HR space and she talked me through the interview process and how to look at a job description and really pulling out the key points of what they were looking for and just being able to go into that scenario. Was they more discussed scenarios like simulations of like. How would I handle situations within everyday life in the office?

Speaker 1:

And, I think, just my understanding of people from even with children, because we have to be so patient, don't we Julian with children because they're learning and they're growing. You work with children, you see their perspectives and often sometimes they have difficulty explaining what is wrong or why they're unhappy or why they're feeling that way, and so being understanding at that level was really beneficial then when I went into that role, because when I would talk about this situation, I try and think about it from the perspective of the stakeholder. And what am I missing? I'm obviously missing something, or there's something that we haven't discussed, that is a fear of theirs or a concern or a problem, and how can I provide the best solution if I don't understand where they're coming from? And it obviously worked because I was successful, yay, yay-hee. And today actually marks six months at Sydney, months at Sydney airport.

Speaker 2:

Get out of here, nice yeah.

Speaker 1:

I know right, um, so six months exactly at Sydney airport and, uh, yeah, I've learned so much, um, by working with the people at Sydney Airport. They're such a dedicated group in every aspect of the company. They just want what's best and they want to promote anything that is beneficial for Sydney Airport, anything that helps it be a better experience for our passengers, or better experiences for those who come on site, or better for our employees as well. So, yeah, what a story.

Speaker 2:

I love it. What a story. So I'm going to pick it to pieces now. All right, go for it In a good way, but I'm going to be cautious because I did ask you beforehand, for everyone listening. I asked Sarah to put together some tips, so this might bleed into that, those tips as I pick up what you're saying.

Speaker 2:

But probably the first thing I'll say is those tips that you had, or those thoughts that you had, from Nology specifically as they essentially coached you right, and this is what I love about partnering with Nology.

Speaker 2:

So everyone you know, for your information, we're friends with Nology, pybytes, right. We know the people who work there and we think it's amazing what they do. Now they don't use Python explicitly, which is a bit of a I'm joking team. I'm joking, but it's such a cool thing that it kind of highlights and emphasizes for us, reiterates for us, that it doesn't matter what you're learning. Those same mindset and traits that we constantly talk about are universal when it comes to learning, growing and especially changing careers. So one of the things I want to highlight about what you said was your background, regardless of what it is, provides value for what's coming next. So you're back and you already drew the connection that your empathy and everything you learn, the patience, the thoughtfulness about working with children, pays off in the corporate world, because most people in the corporate world are children too. I'm joking. I didn't say that I'm joking.

Speaker 1:

No, no, I mean, I've definitely made several jokes like that. I mean, we can all have our own. Um, you know, I have times where I'm sulky or I feel like you know, feeling grumpy and cross, and all I need is a food, some food, exactly.

Speaker 2:

I just I just want to nap. It's food. Is that too much to ask so exactly? But?

Speaker 2:

But that being able to draw on that experience is is super valuable, and people put themselves down based on what they've done. They say I, I could never do that because I'm only in child care, I'm only in dance, I'm only in pharmaceuticals, I'm only in, you know, these roles that are traditionally non-tech. They just think that means this is off limits to me. So I love that they say and reiterate what we say as well, which is just that it doesn't matter. Don't make excuses. What it means is you get in there and as long as you have that ability to learn, that desire to learn and grow, you're going to get there and you're just living proof of that. So I think it's incredible.

Speaker 2:

I love the story and I think it's amazing what you've accomplished in such a relatively short period of time. I mean you're talking about since COVID, right? So it's been a couple of years. People think it's going to take me a decade to get into that, but just some hard work, finding the right coaches, finding the right people to support you along the way, is just incredible. So I thought that was awesome. Sorry, you go, you go. What were you going to say?

Speaker 1:

No, it's okay. Yeah, so exactly kind of like continuing on strengthening your point, especially with technology. What I found was, especially when I first started out and I was like what do I do? There was just so many resources online. I mean, I think Julian just recently did something very exciting in this space, is that right, julian?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the coding platform. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, oh, interesting, but there are so many resources out there that are often free or very low cost of money YouTube videos of all these, tutorials, multiple ways to build something from the beginning using full stack. You can pretty much search any kind of coding language stack that you want to like build, and there'll be something there with a full on like this is how you build it and this is what you should watch out for, and so, literally, knowledge is just at your fingertips and people are so eager to help you.

Speaker 1:

I find people in technology are very much like a group of people who are, like you, want to learn about this new thing, oh let me like explain everything in like immense detail, probably a little bit too far.

Speaker 1:

That's where the educational aspect of me comes in, but in general, that eagerness to help others when it comes to learning something new in tech or developing your skills, everyone's so encouraging in that area at least what I've gathered, and just everything being available, and so that's quite rare rare at least in my area because, like, for something like dance, you have to be like physically there, um, and you can like watch youtube videos to like do like fun dancing, but like to develop your technique and things like it's, you kind of have to be in classes where here it is all just online anything you needed, um, and so in some ways, like I didn't go the natural course of going back to uni, I kind of forged my own path and did self-learning, and then that's when knowledge kind of came in to kind of give me that final bit of like more structured.

Speaker 1:

Here is like you've developed something on your own and now we're going to build, we've got to use what you've done for yourself and we're going to actually show you how we. Now we're going to build, we've got to use what you've done for yourself and we're going to actually show you how we can. We're going to help you get that last, that finish line, and help you get there, which is really incredible.

Speaker 2:

That's a really unique insight for me, because I've been in tech, for you know, since I left, since high school, right, I've been tinkering with computers. So it's really nice to hear from someone who's transitioning into tech that it is a very welcoming space and people are willing to help. I think one of the extra things to add to that is that you need to ask, though. Right, you need to let people know that you're interested in it, right? If you don't speak up and say, hey, I need your help to help me prepare for this interview or for this job, or what am I not understanding about this concept?

Speaker 2:

If you don't have the courage to speak up and say something people aren't going to know to help you and a lot of that is imposter syndrome Am I wasting people's time? Am I an idiot for not understanding this guy? What am I doing? As you said, that self doubt of ah, is this the right thing? To go down when you, when you're stuck, um, but the second you speak up, you will find people in tech, for the most part, will just jump on and be like let me do it for you. No, maybe not that extreme, but they'll, they'll help, right.

Speaker 1:

So let me give you 100 resources for you to look at some.

Speaker 2:

I actually had a chat with someone yesterday who I was encouraging to develop some cloud skills on top of Python, and they said well, what resources. I said you know what? Give me some time to put something together, because I don't want to just give you an avalanche of here's every video you could watch. You could ever possibly watch Hyper-specific. So yeah, so that's an aside, but to yeah, I was going to say back to your story. If you don't mind me pushing this back to you, let's go to the tips and advice, because there's so many things I want to bring up about your story, but I want you to lead this with the tips that you have, and I don't know what tips you brought, so we'll see what happens. So what advice would you give? Let's start with this question what advice would you give to people who are thinking about moving into tech, maybe changing careers? Maybe I'm burnt out from what I do. I want to move into this. They want to learn this kind of stuff, but they think this isn't for me.

Speaker 3:

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Speaker 1:

So for me because, like we've discussed, tech can be so expensive. I mean, I didn't even know that there was a role called solution architect and now that I'm in it I'm like, wow, I cannot think of more and more perfect role that suited what I wanted to get out of tech than a solution architect. Uh, I was more thinking like user experience and user interfaces, and that would have still been very rewarding, but I was like here's a role I didn't even consider for myself. So I think one be open. Uh, don't be afraid to, once you've built a foundation, to kind of extend further into something um, something a bit more diverse or more narrow in your field. But my first advice would be, of course, build that basic foundation first. So if you want to go into anything with tech, I think to understand this is the advice that was given to me when I was first starting out it's best to understand actually what you're talking about or what code is. So Python is a very good, easy beginner language, and by easy I mean it's not easy when you're first starting out first couple of days, but what I mean by that is a great way to learn the basic concepts, the basic syntax, how your mind must work when it comes to programming, because it's about problem solving and it's about understanding. You know, sometimes it could be as simple as there's a space or you haven't put a parentheses somewhere, and that's it that destroys your code. And so having something like Python is a very forgiving code language, having something like Python is a very forgiving code language, and so my recommendation would be find those really simple concepts, start developing those and then from there, try and build something, because again you've got to think about what again. What rewards you? So what gives you that feeling of like, oh wow, I've accomplished something? So always make sure you've set like short goals so that it's very clear oh, I saw where I started and this is where I ended as it builds up that basic foundational learning. So don't don't bite something off too big before you're ready. But then my second point from that would then it be is then find something that excites you, something, a project that you want to develop.

Speaker 1:

So, for me, one of the major projects I worked, that I didn't end up even completing, but I worked on it wholeheartedly for like six months, was a not surprising, as I like drama and dance, I am into Dungeons and Dragons, and so we developed a project which was all about how to handle like inventory, storage, but also, you know, all the spells that you could possibly cast in every tradition, and I wanted to create something where everyone could just log into this full stack development project. They can sign in, they can make their character, which is just like their name and like what class they are and what tradition they have of spellcasting, if they have it, and then it's just literally their body and they could put which items they wanted or what was in their inventory or what spells that they could cast. And it was just going to be based on campaigns, et cetera. So that was a project I started to work on and there's a lot that needs to go into something like that. We had to even scrape um, you know the websites for that information. It was to, you know, build what the people were working with. So something like that was even though I didn't fully complete it, it was a big way to a really fun way to learn because it kept the drive going when it really got hard and it really got tough, and all I wanted to do was cry as I looked at my car because I was like why are you not working? What am I missing? Because I believed in what I was building or I enjoyed what I was building it. Let me take step over those hurdles and get to the next spot. So I think you know my well.

Speaker 1:

My advice would be is to start with coding and then from there you can kind of look at different roles that can come from that.

Speaker 1:

You know and and and choose what works best for you. And then sorry, I know I've been talking, but then the second part is looking at your skills and the things you enjoy of your current role. So in my previous career I really loved teamwork. I loved working with other people. That's where I got a lot of my passion, for my job was working with other people and seeing them succeed. I love to see the kids learning something and growing and knowing that I helped make that impact. And then I also looked at like I liked socializing. I liked being with people, I liked working on something together and letting that kind of be what was best for everyone, and so that was also something that I reflect on. When I was like, what career do I want to go to in tech, I looked at those elements of my life and my previous career that I enjoyed and tried to find a role that matched those things that I enjoyed.

Speaker 2:

That's super cool. And I think to just add to that last point is go and talk to people, right, go and go. You, you have that network, you have friends, you have family. I mean, people often say to me when I'm coaching them and I'm talking with them, but I don't have anyone. I'm like you literally have next door neighbors that you hang out with, you have a partner you have. Well, that partner has friends, you know. You have parents, potentially if they're still around or if they're in the same town, city, whatever. But I don't really believe when a lot of people come to me and say I don't have anyone to talk to. I'm like, well, let's rip it apart and let's find it. And you have to hit up that network and don't be ashamed to just say I want your help. People love to help. Intrinsically, we're designed to support each other, right. So that's an incredible point. You know. Find what it is. Look at where you are right now. What do you actually enjoy doing about it? And there is something for you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, definitely. So that's a thank you for bringing that back up because, yes, exactly so. About a year into my journey in learning full stack development, a friend of mine she's a good friend of mine that I've known for you know now in over a decade and I did not realize that she did she is the CEO, coo of Tech Inclusion and she's helped run Girls Program Network for several years and has been a part of it even when she was a high schooler. That's how she found out about it and she was once I'd kind of gotten a little bit more confident. She was like you should come, I really think you'd enjoy this. You're an educator and we're going to be teaching students how to build projects and write in Python. And because of that connection, she invited me to their workshops for one-day workshops, but they happen every term here in Australia and so she invited me to that and I met a network of other women, because it's run for women and non-binary and it's also run by women and non-binary individuals as well. So it's very much.

Speaker 1:

I found my people, people that were in the exact same boat to me as me, people who were vastly like some that were working, some who were in uni people, but they were all people that were like me, people who were in vastly like some that were working, some who were in uni people, but they were all people that were like me, who were passionate about technology and wanted to give back, and I got to talk to them because, again, people people are a resource and so I could discuss with them and go this is what I'm currently learning, or do you have any advice? And we even implement that as part of Girls' Primary Network, we have a mentor hangs where our year 10 to year 12s can come and meet our tutors and they talk to the tutors and they ask for advice to prepare them for their future, and so it was this very welcoming environment and I could ask those questions and it became this resource for me and also helped me build my confidence because I realized, you know, like we said before, everyone feels self-doubt. Imposter syndrome is real, and here are people who I would think this is what they've been doing since they went straight into uni like this is not a career change and they're still struggling. They still have that self-doubt, but they're also striving towards what they want to have out of tech, and that is possible for me as well. So it's been yeah, people are fantastic.

Speaker 1:

I've used all my friends who are in tech. I've asked them countless questions and there's definitely been times where I've felt bad and felt guilty about taking up their time, but you know, they did interview prep with me. They be my biggest cheerleaders. I mean, we look at even in Nology. In Nology you're with a cohort and the biggest thing that was one of our biggest strengths for our cohort in particular was we had a Discord and any time anyone had a problem we were messaging on there. I mean, like someone jump in a chat, like I just need someone to help me figure this through. And that was actually one of our biggest rewards of that group because it actually all helped us improve immensely.

Speaker 1:

It helped us rely on other people's strengths to get us across that line. And even though we all felt self-doubtbt, we all achieved the same goal because we worked together to get there. You're in it.

Speaker 2:

So that was quite yeah, we were in it together that's super cool and that's the power of community, right? We? That's what we we always harp on about. Our pie bites. Community, it's a great place to go and connect with. That's not a plug. This is just me reflecting what you're saying and that's what I love to go and connect with. That's not a plug. This is just me reflecting what you're saying and that's what I love about it. People come in where they otherwise wouldn't have a space to share their coding problems or even just share some good news, like we had someone just share the other day um, that he's got two uh python interviews this week, you know, like a win after this dry spell.

Speaker 2:

I'm like like that's amazing, right, and let's all celebrate together. So I love that you had that with Nology and I imagine you all still kind of keep in touch in some way and potentially ping each other about wins and things right.

Speaker 1:

Yes, funnily enough, one of them also works at Sydney Airport, so one of my co-hosts. So we just talked yesterday. Oh, nice, but also airport, uh, so one of my co-pots. So we, we just talked yesterday, um, but also, yeah, we do catch up, um, we celebrated each person when they placed and um, we do catch up with them um semi-regularly, to kind of, you know, check in, see how people are going. That's cool well to.

Speaker 2:

To rewind for a second to the point where you're talking about you hitting up your network and you're talking about your friend who is, do you say, CTO of.

Speaker 1:

COO of Tech Inclusion.

Speaker 2:

Okay, yeah, gotcha Of Girls Partner Network, is that correct?

Speaker 1:

Tech Inclusion is the charity that encompasses Girls Programming Network. So they are the ones that help get our sponsors. Make sure that we can run girls program network because, for those who don't know, girls program network network actually runs in several locations around australia. So we have and we call them nodes. We have a node that runs in melbourne, one in perth, one in sydney, and then we're actively working towards getting other locations set up so that we can really spread out, because these are free workshops as well, so we are providing free workshops to these students.

Speaker 1:

We've also just done a pilot program for our juniors, which are year three to six in Sydney, which so it means that they're going to be building. They're doing like scratch and like block kind of coding and the hope is that they will learn there. Then they'll get to high school level, they'll come to GBN High School in Sydney and then they'll do year seven to year 12, and then they'll invite it back as tutors after that as they go into uni as well. So it's this kind of this whole like streamline to kind of show like we're here to help you develop and you'll get this you know connection in this community, like you discussed.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

From all the way up, from like year three, all the way up to you know you're working and you're now tutoring and you're giving back to that community.

Speaker 2:

That is so cool. We'll make sure we put a. So it's Girls Programming Network.

Speaker 1:

Yes, Right, so we'll make sure we put a link in the notes for people to have a look, because that's really cool. I love that sort of stuff. Yeah, Now I want to say, which is another one of those things that I really learned from Knowledge in Girls Program Network you have a unique perspective as someone who's coming new into the tech industry. You know you even stated it before, Julian like I've been in the tech industry since I finished high school. Like our understanding and our perspective is shaped by what we experience and so when you're coming in to this, this space, you're coming from a different, unique experience because you're new, and girls programming network especially saw that and was like this is amazing. We can use your really beginner perspective of what we're teaching to our students.

Speaker 1:

Because I was put into, like because we have rooms and I was put into the real beginner room like year seven beginners never touched code before, and for me it was a really amazing experience because I could give them feedback, because I was like, oh, this is too hard. Like I even found that confusing or how I'm teaching these students, like I need to adapt it because they're learning concepts for the very first time. And I remember how much I struggled when I learned that concept and I was I was, you know, 25 or something like that like they're only like 12. They're not gonna understand that if I don't connect it um. And then as an educator because I was an educator I thought of different ways to teach these concepts that we don't necessarily think about because you're coming from this perspective.

Speaker 1:

So I would encourage anyone, of course now that's my shameless plug I would encourage anyone, any woman or gender diverse individual, to come and shoot up because even if you feel insecure or unsure, there's so much that you could get out of it. You can lecture, you can just help someone. Explaining code is a great way to learn code you know or especially even like in Nology, they trained us, they coached us in how to present ourselves or explain our code, because when you get into the workforce in the industry, you need to be able to explain what you're doing and what you're building. And especially in my role, I've got non-technical people and I've got technical people. I need to understand both sides and these two programs were really helpful in building those foundational skills that I developed from educating and my dance degree to then elevate it to what it means in this industry and in my workplace.

Speaker 2:

That's so cool. I didn't even have to talk this episode. This is awesome. You just got all the gold coming out, stuff that we reiterate with our coaching and the stuff that we put out. I love it. This is awesome, awesome, awesome stuff.

Speaker 2:

The thing I want to say, because I always try and think about what are people going to push back on this sort of stuff with so a lot of people? Some people might say, well, I don't know anyone in tech, so my challenge to that is well, go to a meetup, you know. So I love that you've talked about girls programming network, because it's a way of volunteering, it's a way of and it's people think of. Volunteering is okay. Well, I'm the one who's going to have to be giving, in the sense that I have to teach right, and that's true to some extent. But you also get exposed, as you said, to all the other teachers, all the other people on their journeys in uni and new jobs, been there for 5 000 years, that sort of stuff. So, yeah, you know, you got to think outside the box and you got to be open to thinking that that way to be able to get that success. So I really love that.

Speaker 2:

There's a few other things, but we're at time. I want to be conscious. I know you've got things to do and we both decided we want to have lunch before our next meetings. It's important to eat food. It is important, first of all, next time you come up the coast, we're going to have to go have lunch, which is awesome, of course. Of course, yes, there's some connection up here which we can do. And two, I actually didn't know that story about Dungeons Dragons. I know, obviously we've met before this whole podcast to get to know each other a bit, but I had my very first D&D session on Saturday, like a couple of days ago.

Speaker 3:

No way that's so cool, first ever.

Speaker 2:

With a bunch of dads from primary school the dads of the other kids.

Speaker 3:

Oh, that's so cute. That's amazing. We sat at one of their houses.

Speaker 2:

We had a barbecue, we had a few drinks, but the very first time. So, as you're talking about your app idea, I'm like I know exactly what you're talking about. So this is. This is one of those moments where I think to myself it doesn't matter what your interest is, you can build something for it. You know and you just have to, and it doesn't matter if it exists out there already. Just build it for yourself, in your vision, as you said, bringing your experience, your needs and desires into it, and it just keeps you going. So we're gonna have to talk more about that, because I need to play more of this, I really need to play more of this.

Speaker 1:

Yes, it's so much fun, right, and it's great because even those even dnd, like provides you those skills like it's problem solving, it's diplomacy, it's being able to work together as a team, it's about imagining and being creative. Like these are all aspects that still are very helpful in our everyday life. This is why you know, I've been playing for not over a decade, but close to a decade now, and so you think about it that way and you go well, yeah, those are the things that helped me prepare even for this.

Speaker 2:

You've got to be this is the way anything you do. Yeah, I'm a dungeon master, I'm a dungeon master.

Speaker 1:

prepare even for this you're going to be. This is the way anything you do. Yeah, um, my cleric is level 14 and I think you really should consider me I love it.

Speaker 2:

That is awesome. Um, I, I could, we should, we could do another episode on dungeons, dragons, I would be I mean I.

Speaker 1:

I could talk about Dungeons and Dragons for hours.

Speaker 2:

I loved it. I don't know what took me so long to get into it. I think I just didn't know who to talk to, but it was so much fun and there was a point where we said we need an IT manager character to solve this problem. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Resource management Project manager to come in.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we need a pm. We should just create a whole new world where it's just the office, you, just every character, someone from the office, and there you go. What's the problem? We're going to solve this problem. We're going to build this report by friday um, yeah, okay, what's the reward?

Speaker 1:

x XP.

Speaker 2:

The reward is you get a paycheck, you get to come back on Monday.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly Okay.

Speaker 2:

So, to finish this off, we've done tips, advice. Thank you for that, and I know there's so much more that we could dive into because I've got a page of notes. Maybe we just need to do a round two, maybe when you hit your 12 months right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, see what happens in the next six months.

Speaker 2:

So, as we always say, you know, we love to talk about books. Bob and I are readers through and through.

Speaker 1:

So what are you reading? Okay, so I'm reading a book called Invisible Woman by Caroline Perez, and it's about exposing the data biases in a world designed for men. So for me it's actually looks. It kind of goes that book. It goes into quite detail about how often some of our studies actually do not represent minorities and women, but only just a main majority, and how that actually then affects our everyday life. Because if we're not thought about and it's not ignored, then it's not going to show the actual things that are required for us in our lives and it means that we get left out. And so it actually shows.

Speaker 1:

Especially in this book it talks about the actual repercussions of that and shows quite clear, like you know, experiments where they have, you know people have been in the right position to go. Hey, we really should consider, um, you know so, for example. But one of the examples in the book is you know, even for crash driving, when you were driving a car and you have a crash, the dummies would be in the physique of a male and not for a female, and how much that actually then affected, because women don't have the same body shape and so they just didn't even think about that and that actually affected how cars were built and how they put the safety in and we were. It was ignored and that can have more consequences for women down the track. So yeah, very, I would encourage anyone to read it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, okay, I'm going to read it. That's stuff that you just, I guess, as a guy, you just don't think about, right? You just assume. Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1:

I didn't even think about it until I started reading it. I didn't even think that that was a thing.

Speaker 2:

You kind of assume it was already thought about and taken care of exactly right that. Yeah, okay, when, when my wife drives the car, she's going to be just as safe as me. You kind of just assume that, right? Um, exactly, that's really cool. Thank you for sharing.

Speaker 1:

They fixed it now, but that was, that was a previous study. I think they fixed it now, thank goodness, but it's no longer like that, I think.

Speaker 2:

I hope it was fixed. You're not driving love, Not for a while. Well, let's get the airbags sorted out first. No, that's cool. Thank you for sharing that, so that's a great resource. I'll definitely put that in there as well. Yeah, I'm reading stuff. It doesn't matter. No, no, it doesn't matter. No, what do you read? Well, okay, my son, my nine-year-old. He enjoys reading. Sometimes it can be a bit of a nag to get him to do his daily reading for homework, but he's loved these books called Wings of Fire, the Wings of Fire series.

Speaker 1:

I've heard of these.

Speaker 2:

Yes, it's like a graphic novel, yeah, but he said, you know, because he's reading them, I thought this would be a good thing. I'll read it with him, not to him, so he can read himself. But I've started on book one and I'm already in book three or four or something. Um, but it's cool because now it's a very super easy read for an adult, but it's meant that he and I get to sit and talk about.

Speaker 1:

He's like have you got up to the end of?

Speaker 2:

that four yet and and I'm like no, I went. I was working late last night. I fell asleep without reading. So, yeah, so that's what I'm reading. I'm reading through those, and Bob and I are currently reading a book called Smart Brevity, which is about writing more effectively and efficiently and stuff. So that's another good book. But, yeah, all good, all right, well, look, sarah, we're at time. Thank you so much for being here. Where can people connect with you and network and chat with you?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So I would definitely say LinkedIn is probably your best bet. Feel free to connect or send me a message and say hi, I heard you on PyBytes. I wanted to pick your brain. But also you can just find me at Girls Programming Network. Like workshop events, I'm pretty much at every single one I can possibly get myself to. I'm also the Melbourne liaison, so I've actually popped down to the Melbourne node the last couple of times, but Sydney is the one you'll find me at most regularly. But yeah, those would probably be your two best chances. Otherwise you might see me walking around international terminal where you'll be like, ah, I know this person.

Speaker 2:

At Sydney airport. Yeah, perfect, I'll look out for you the next time I'm there. Yeah, okay, cool. Well, that's awesome. I'll put all those links to Girls Programming Network and your LinkedIn profile for people to find you and your name, address and credit card number. So we'll go with that. But thank you, sarah. Any parting words for everyone before we stop the recording.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think. Just one final piece of advice, which is something we didn't really get to share, which is just you can only do the opportunities that you take. So, whenever an opportunity arises, only do the opportunities that you take. So, whenever an opportunity arises, try to grab at it and then do a hundred percent with it every time you can, and then you might end up being in Sydney's emergency exercise as a wounded passenger and having a brilliant time. So, yeah, take any opportunity that presents itself, because you never know where it will lead. You don't know what the people that will be with you and what connections they have, but also enjoy being with them and enjoy getting to know those people and understanding their perspectives, and view it that you always have something you can learn from somebody else, because that will help you in any aspect of your life.

Speaker 2:

That was a great tip. It was really good. I love that one. I always say the greatest purpose in life is just to get to know people. That's the greatest pleasure in life for me to do that. Also, sit and have a coffee and read a book in silence. That's also pretty good. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if anyone wants to understand that reference about the Sydney airport thing, go and connect with Sarah on LinkedIn and then look at one of her posts recently and you'll see what she's doing.

Speaker 3:

All right, Sarah, Well thank you so much for being here, oh it's my pleasure. Thank you for the opportunity.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, thank you, bye. Well, thank you listeners for being here as always and for tuning in. We'll be back next week. And yeah, sarah, thanks again, you take care.

Speaker 1:

Awesome, thank you. We'll be back next week and, um, yeah, sarah thanks again.

Speaker 2:

You take care awesome. Thank you very much. Hey, everyone, thanks for tuning into the pybites podcast. I really hope you enjoyed it. A quick message from me and bob before you go to get the most out of your experience with pybites, including learning more python, engaging with other developers, learning about our guests, discussing these podcast episodes, and much, much more please join our community at pybytescircleso. The link is on the screen if you're watching this on YouTube and it's in the show notes for everyone else. When you join, make sure you introduce yourself, engage with myself and Bob and the many other developers in the community. It's one of the greatest things you can do to expand your knowledge and reach and network as a Python developer. We'll see you in the next episode and we will see you in the community.