Paradigm Shifting Books
“What are the must-read books for personal and professional development?” If you’ve ever wondered this, you’ve come to the right place. Join us as we dive into 40 essential books that everyone should read. Hear directly from the authors as they share the key paradigms and principles necessary to unlock your full potential. Hosted by brothers Stephen H. Covey and Britain Covey, this podcast is your gateway to transformative insights and growth.
Paradigm Shifting Books
Book #13 - The Fearless Mind by Dr. Craig Manning
Unlocking Human Performance: An Interview with Dr. Craig Manning - https://thefearlessmind.com/
In this episode, Dr. Manning, author of 'The Fearless Mind,' joins the podcast to discuss the transformative principles of mental performance. Dr. Manning shares his journey of writing the book, the importance of knowing one's strengths, and the significance of building skills upon those strengths. Both hosts, and notably Britain Covey in his NFL career relate personal experiences of overcoming anxiety and enhancing performance through these principles. Dr. Manning underscores the essence of focusing on the present, setting goals that align with personal growth and identity, and differentiates between ego-oriented and task-oriented mindsets. Practical advice, including daily journaling, helps listeners to start identifying their strengths and maintaining a growth mindset. Dr. Manning's insights are rooted in both personal anecdotes and extensive research, offering valuable guidance for excelling under pressure in both sports and everyday life.
Highlights:
00:00 Introduction to the Fearless Mind
04:38 Defining High Performance
06:04 The Importance of Knowing Your Strengths
17:20 The Role of Goals and Identity
23:48 Generational Differences in Motivation
29:24 Handling Authority Figures
33:46 Commitment Culture and Owning Your Lane
34:54 Ego vs. Task Orientation
40:56 The Science of Fear and Learning
44:38 Super Bowl Reflections and Mental Skills
51:15 Practical application
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Dr. Manning, thank you for being here today. We're super excited to have you on our podcast. Your book has made a huge impact on me personally. So it was about. About four years ago, at the time I was in a sales role and I was struggling with, I was kind of choking during sales meetings. That's the best way to say it. And, your book was recommended to me by someone else on my team and reading your book, Absolutely changed. I would say the trajectory of, of my career when it came to kind of pressure filled moments and, feeling a lot of anxiety and fear going into something. So how we're going to approach today is, is Brit and I, uh, we each have a couple of questions, general questions we decided on together. And then, we each kind of have two or three aspects from the book that we're really curious to talk to you about. So the first general question, why did you write the book in general and what, what did you have in mind behind the title, the fearless mind?
Craig:Yeah, so first I was working in and we had two kids and you know, Mackenzie, cause you grew up with her. We had two kids in diapers. I was working a couple of jobs. And I finished my PhD and it took me a little bit longer to finish it because we were so busy with these other things. And so I had a full time job. I had, was coaching tennis on the side and we got these two kids and to get done. And I just felt impressed to write a book. McKenzie's like, what aren't we getting into the field? When's the, when we're going to actually see some benefits from all of this sacrifice that was, it was a lot of work. And I just felt impressed that I wanted to write a book. I thought that this field of mental performance. Was really untapped. And in, in psychology, I really organize it. There's like three areas of psychology. There's the clinical, which is more deep seated issues. Then there's counseling, which is more the mental health side. And then there's mental performance, which I thought always thought was completely different because we got to learn skills and build resilience to be able to, um, perform under pressure and to unlock our potential as well as accelerating skill development. So I'd always been passionate about that. And always had that, that I wanted to figure out kind of the, the map of how you build it. I just never believed that some people have it and others don't. Cause I, I witnessed one of my friends who I grew up playing tennis with, we used to travel together. We'd actually sleep on the floor in hotel rooms. All the time. Cause both of us struggled with some lower back problems. And so we'd sleep on the floor and we'd talk about tennis all the time. And I ended up getting selected on Australian team ahead of him and played on the tour for a while before I came to, to the States and then I watched him go from, struggling to make it on the tour to number one in the world while I was there at BYU. And I knew it wasn't the physical cause I could always beat him physically, but. His mind was always so good. And so I was fascinated by that. And so to me that always seemed to be the answers. So I get done with my PhD and I'm like, I want to write a book on this. And as I started writing the book, it was more for my own benefit. I'm like, I'm not a writer. I just love the science. And as I started writing it, I realized how many gaps were in the research. And so as I found all these gaps, I would just study it and try to figure it out to fill in the gaps. And really, again, wrote the book for myself. And it's such a. A purification when you write a book, it helps you to really understand the science at a depth you don't realize and how you can talk about it, explain it, and how it all makes sense. And that's what it did for me. I had no idea anyone would buy the book and nor did I really care. I just wrote it really because I felt impressed and because I needed it for myself, but there's some things I learned writing that book that it's still, I still helps me to this day. So yeah, very. Um, amazing experience trying to figure all of that out.
Britain:That's so fascinating to me. And, uh, it's, it's it's interesting, obviously playing in Philadelphia. We have on our staff, uh, mental health counselor and a mental performance. Cause you know, if anybody who follows sports knows it can be pretty difficult to play in Philadelphia with the pressure.
Craig:Yeah, absolutely.
Britain:so so I relate to, to all of this a lot. I just love having you here. Um, something that is interesting to me. I would love to ask you just how would you define high performance? Cause your book's all about high performance. And I feel like it's really easy in sports define high performance. But your book, relates to all of life and I, I would just be interested to, uh, To hear just a definition for that,
Craig:Yeah, and it's interesting as I've evolved because I keep studying. That's one of the biggest things I've learned. You got to keep learning all the time. Always learn. And I learned actually funny enough from Jerry Seinfeld that that we can talk about later. But, um, I actually changed the language as I got understood this more to human performance because what I realized at the beginning, understanding high performance is one thing, which is learning how to unlock the talent you have and to perform on stage. That's what to me is, is unlocking and using all of the skills you have. But what I realized there's a massive human element to this high performance. I felt like after the, in the first little bit that I was. Helping build almost robots that everyone was the same. And there was this ceiling that I noticed people would get to, and they couldn't get beyond that. And the more I studied, I realized the human element was critical. So I changed it to human performance. And so I added a few things I learned, you know, doing my dissertation, the five key areas of performance. But then I, I found out there was some more steps before that of helping people really identify who they are. And I found this to be incredibly important in athletics, but in life, and Sigmund Freud is a bit of a bit crazy as he was, if you're really taking some upper level psych classes, the guy is a bit of a whack job when you really, um, how crazy he took some things, but one of the things I love that he said is he said he believed that everyone comes to this world with like gifts, like they come with, I would put language on that now as strengths. Yeah. That we all have certain strengths that we're born with, that we come to this world. And he said, one of the keys to success is helping to identify what those strengths are. I'm going to use my own language strengths and developing those strengths. And I, there is no research out there that has ever disproven that, which means if the research can't disprove it, it's pretty much there. It's just so hard to prove because it's so subjective. But what I found over and over again in athletics, in business, in life, Helping people identify what their core strengths are really is gives you that belief of something tangible to believe in about you. And that's critical to know who you are, know what your strengths are, and own that. Then from that beginning, so having that strong identity, who you are, then build skills on top of that. Whereas so many people, Tom Brady said it best in your sport. He said, He said, most people are average in this world because they work hard on things that don't matter, but the best work hard on skills, specifically designed to help them get where they want to go. I love that. What I've learned is it's critical for people to help know who they are, what their identity is and what their strengths are. Then build skills that build from that. And as you do that, you're helping these people really learn to trust themselves and to become the best version of themselves. And to unlock that to where I would say at the end, I'm trying to help people become their authentic self and to really be unapologetic about themselves. And if you don't mind it, can I keep going for a sec here? Cause I love this.
Britain:Yeah,
Stephen:that's
Craig:So like to make this super real going into game six 2021 NBA championship, I worked closely with Giannis Antetokounmpo for years. And I live back in Milwaukee, Mackenzie still lives there, uh, for a little while because I had to get out and I still owned my third year team option to, to come back to Utah early. Um, so we live on the same road as Giannis. And so I'd go over to his house at night, game six, I turn up and he opens the door and he says to me, doc, I don't owe you anything. I'm like, okay. This is game six in the NBA championship. Where are we going with this? And he's like, I just really don't know anyone, anything. I'm just really in a good place with who I am, what my strengths are. And he says, we called it being unapologetically ourselves. And the guy went and scored 50 points in the game six, the only person that's ever scored 50 to close out an NBA championship. And what I believe that is, is an application of the science. Like you get to this point, you know, who you are and you trust yourself that you really just don't care what other people think, and you can just go and perform at your best in the biggest moment. And I've just seen that repeated over and over again, helping people identify who they are, build their skills. So that they trust themselves and they can just go and perform.
Stephen:What you just described, Dr. Manning, is very similar to what I've heard Britt talk about. Um, so Britt, I'll let you say it. I just want to interject because you've got to, I think it aligns perfectly.
Britain:no, I love it. I, I absolutely love this. Um, yeah, when I talked to, I mean, I get people asking me all the time, you know, about athletics, especially parents with their kids, anytime there's an undersized kid that's like me, the parent always wants to know what I did and things, um, but yeah, my grandpa had a quote that I kind of made the identity of my athletic career. he talks about build on your strengths and then organized to make weaknesses become irrelevant. And for me, yeah, to me, that's, that's been everything. And obviously I'm always the smallest player on my team at all times. And in the recruiting process, you know, I, I had a lot of people just obsess over. Bulking me up, getting me bigger. And I just kept thinking to myself, even if I do get a little bigger, I'm still going to be average in that area. It's not going to help me write that Tom Brady quote. So I've focused on kind of the two things that have made me unique. And, and that's the reason why I'm still playing football. I've seen that with many people. So I love that. I've seen that with gray athletes, some of the best athletes in the world. So I love that you share that. My question with all of this is I feel like once again, with sports, it's such a physical representation where I feel like it's so easy to point out your strengths, right? It's so easy to point out my weakness of not being able to hardly bench 225 pounds, but, but, you know, my strengths are quickness or, or. My mental aspect of the game. It's just a lot easier to identify with sports. How do you, do you go, do you go through this in your book about things that are less easy to identify, you know, in life, in the workplace, um, not the things that are not as obvious.
Craig:I don't, yeah, the book, I do a little bit, but there's so much that I've learned since I wrote the book. There's a couple of things you said that uniqueness is critical, like owning who you are and knowing your strengths and building skills, it creates that uniqueness. So there's no competition with others. And that's really critical. We're not competing with other people. We're competing with who we used to be. It's always a competition with ourselves towards getting better. And that's massive because this is the slippery slope from research comparison. Comparison is bad because comparison leads to insecurities. insecurities. leads to needing approval from the world. And as soon as you do that, you're giving your locus of control away. That creates an out in mindset where you're reactive. That's where fear, what fear is. So comparison leads to insecurities. Insecurity leads to needing approval. And in needing approval leads to the inferiority superiority complex. Which is really one complex. So like if I'm around somebody that my, my bald head is, is smoother than theirs, I feel superior than them. But then if I'm around somebody that has a full head of hair, I feel inferior. Can you see that spiral? And that's what competitive competition is. You're always comparing yourself to others and you get stuck in your development, but when you embrace who you are and you work on the skills around what you are, there's no end to your development and you become unique. And so this, I love that you said that. There's one other thing like for me, I grew up, think about this for a minute before we move past this topic for a sec. I grew up in a big tennis family back in Australia. Everyone, my grandparents played into the nineties. My uncle was over all the junior tennis in Australia for a while. Older cousin played pro, younger cousin played pro. I'm six foot two and I'm skinny and I could not gain muscle for the life of me because I just burn it in one workout. But my whole life always thinking I had to be a power player and had to gain muscle and I had to do this and build all these things and it just, I was working on the wrong skills. Had I have gone back, what is my strength? What are the things I'm best at? And there's a simple formula to figure this out. And it's always evolving. I'm really quick, not fast. I'm slow over a hundred meters, but I'm lightning quick over a tennis court distance, so I'm super quick. That's something that is genetics. I'm long. I'm also my slice back in our mechanics. My slice back in was always my strength, except I always thought I had to hit over the ball. Can you see these ideas that we think we always have to be somebody else? And I was, so therefore I'm skinny trying to be somebody I'm not. So I worked on the wrong skills. These skills I worked on when never helping me. So instead, if I went back, I'd go like, okay, what's your strength? You're quick. You've got a slice backhand now build skills around that. All my skills should have been around movement should have been around getting to every ball. Should have been around my slice back and keeping the ball deep, building my strategies and my skills around that. Now what happens to development? When you're building skills that are built around your strengths. Here's another example. So many people working at BYU and I'm not sure who this goes out to, but so many young athletes come back male and female. They'll sit down. I say, okay, what do you want? What's your goal? I want to be an NBA player. I want to be the NFL or I want to be a pro runner. I'm like, okay, so what are you going to work on? Well, I'm going to work hard. Work hard on what? I'm going to work hard on everything. No, no, no, no. That's going to guarantee mediocrity. You will not make it working hard on everything. You can not. You got to figure out your strengths and I help them identify that and break it down. And then we got to work on skills that build from your strengths. You do that, there's no limit to your potential. And that's why everyone thinks there's this stereotype of who you have to be. The key to success is being the best version of yourself. And one more comment, like Bronson Kofusi, we've talked so many times because I was working with him for years. Even once he was in the NFL, they wanted him to bulk up to Britain. Same thing. And they, he bulked up to like 300 pounds and he couldn't move. Then the coaches were getting mad at him because he couldn't move, you know? And it's like, got to get back to the weight that was best for him. He gets back to the weight that was best for him. And they're like, where was this? I'm like, seriously, we got to own who we are. The coaches are just doing their best, but we have to own who we are. And I just love that for life. Let's get away from sports in a minute. Just embrace who you are. Own who you are. I love being bold. I'm more aerodynamic. I'm quicker. I never have a bad hair day. I love it. Like embrace who you are and own it. You know, if you decide to wear purples, purple socks one day, own that you wear purple socks, like embrace who you are and just own it. It makes life so fulfilling. Just trying to be yourself.
Stephen:I'm thinking of a parallel like in a business setting. In a, in a past career, I, I ran a, ran a sales team and we had someone on the sales team that was incredible in front of people, but, um, Maybe struggled on the back end with, uh, paperwork following up things of that
Craig:it. Yeah.
Stephen:Yeah. And it, which is fine, but it's, it's kind of part of the job. And so the way we approached it is let's, let's not have him focus on that stuff. Let's organize around his strengths and get him out in front of people. And then let's build a team kind of behind him to take care of some of this other stuff that it just wasn't worth spending time for him doing. So that, that may be like a business application, but one of the things you mentioned, uh, just barely is you're talking about working with, college athletes and they have a goal. And that's the question I wanted to ask you about. It's something I, I struggle with. Around setting a goal or an objective. I think growing up, I always was focused on outcome goals, right? Like winning a championship or making it to the NFL, like some, some type of outcome, but as I've grown and I've read works like yours and others, it seems like the focus more should be on things that you have full control over rather than focusing on outcomes. But at the same time, I feel like it's kind of a paradox because you also want to have. A vision, a goal, an objective. So I, that, yeah, I'm kind of convoluted in my thinking, but I really wanted to hear your perspective and take on that, when setting a goal, when setting an objective, how do you balance setting like a, a big goal that is a great objective or vision, but not being a hundred percent focused on the outcome, but at the same time, you want to be focused on the outcome. I don't know. It's,
Craig:no,
Stephen:have a question around this. Yeah.
Craig:Yeah, so one of the things both I'm I'm older than you guys, but you're still we have to be careful of the generation were raised in. So our identity and our six was tied to our success from a baby boomer gen X generation standpoint and who were raised by baby boomers. And so that's a very much a generational thing that our identity is tied to the goals and setting goals and working hard to it. And what I learned from Socrates actually, who's the first one to really break down the concept of happiness. And he broke down happiness into four areas in three and four levels.
Craig 2:First is material objects. Second was ego bound achievement. Okay. Third is doing good. But one of the things is this three happiness neurotransmitters that motivation reason why I'm talking about happiness. Happiness is what motivates us in dopamine, which we've all talked about. Here's the very definition of dopamine. Dopamine comes from the anticipation of something in the future, which is what goals are. It's the anticipation of it, which creates this motivation to act. But the problem is you never achieve it because dopamine only comes from the idea that's out there. And so the problem is once you do achieve it, you need another mountain to climb or another goal to achieve. So you're always chasing it. So it's unstable. It still is a happiness neurotransmitter, but our generation, we relied too heavily just on that for our identity. The more stable happiness neurotransmitter serotonin, which is in the present in reality, in what you are doing. And that's why gratitude is so powerful. But number three, the third one that most people have never heard of, the third happiness neurotransmitter is an endometer and an endometer is the one that is the best one because it stimulates your own happiness. And the reason why, so now coming back to goals, goal setting is good to give you direction, but here's something else I've also learned. You can't know what you really want until you first know who you are. Otherwise, that goal is not your goal. It's somebody else's goal, and it doesn't create the purpose to get you in the flow state to actually work towards it. So what's super important at first is to always build from reality. Always build from who you are here. That's where serotonin is. Who am I? This is who I am. This is my reality. And then rather than to distinguish the difference, have goals that in or objectives that incentivize you. So that incentivize creates the motive to go in act, but you're not defining your identity by achievement. You're defining who you are by who you, who you are is, is where that, that stable, uh, serotonin and an endometrium neurotransmitter comes from. The goal that is just to stimulate the action. So like now I know, don't define myself over the goals. The goals are just something I want to achieve because it makes me happy. It's not my identity. Like I wanted to win another championship. I worked with the Cavaliers and we won one there and I worked with the box when we won one. I want three. I want one more. Not because, not because it defines me just because I want it because it's, I like chasing. I like that, but I'm happy with who I am knowing my strengths, knowing my skills. I'm happy with who I am. It's just, I want the objective is what it is that I want. Which so many people struggle with that because they think that's selfish. It's not selfish. The goal that motivates you, that gives you purpose is the goal that around what you really want. So it's not defining who you are. And by the way, Socrates talked about the fourth level, which he called the sublime level of what creates happiness. He called it sublime beatitude. And sublime is transcendence, meaning who are you and who are you becoming? That is the most stable thing that motivates us is who we are and who we are becoming is the highest level that triggers the endometer neurotransmitter, which is the best one of the three because it's stable. Does that make sense?
Stephen 2:That does make sense and how you describe it, resonates with me. I feel like I'm in the middle of this journey in some ways of, reorienting myself around having healthy goals that are good. Not defining myself completely by the outcomes or certain things I can't control.
Craig 2:Just like you said, you're you're you're on this journey. You're kind of in the middle between the Gen X generation and the Gen Y and that stuff we're evolving all the time we're learning all the time and just one of the things I would always say is with goals that's very much a Gen X and a baby boomer generation thing. And when, when we hear about goals, it's nearly always from one of those two generations. And again, goals are big, but remember the sole purpose in a goal is just to give you direction. That goal is not to define who you are. It just, the sole purpose in the goal is to give you that direction of where you want to go. Your identity and life is happening here in the present and too many people live their lives out in the future that never actually ever arrives. And so that's why they struggle with, um, the highs and lows of life and they struggle with their identity too much because it's too dependent on the future. That is always uncertain.
Britain 2:love that. I'm curious. What, what about Gen Z and this upcoming generation? What is their thing? What's their niche?
Craig 2:They're like Gen, so Gen Y, it's, it's really simple, right? Gen X, Gen Y, Gen Z, Gen, Gen Zs are just basically on Red Bull of Gen Ys, like they're just doing everything faster. But it is super interesting why I bring up the generations because human thought is language. It's not like language, it is language, like human thought is language, how you talk to yourself is what thoughts are. And, and language comes from the culture and the generation you're raised in. So somebody raised in the baby boomer generation, they think like that way because that's the environment they're raised in. And then what changed? It was a generational war that most of us don't even realize it was a war, but going back to the traditionalist baby boomer and Gen Xs, all three of those generations are very much a hierarchy generation where. Information and knowledge streamed down from parents, teachers, and religious leaders, but with the invention of radio and then invention of TV that broadened the knowledge and your awareness of yourself and the world, but with the invention of the internet in 1993, it changed everything because now information is coming from everywhere. And so now there's no less filters on the information and it completely changed. And that's the generational war between. Baby boomers and Gen Xs and Millennials and the war was over the communication and that changed how we view things and how we see things and knowing that and being able to communicate to motivate the different generations, knowing how to connect with them, I find really important and that's what I see in the athletic world. Britain coming to you. It's big time. I'm sure in the NFL. It's big time in the NBA. I constantly spend my life bridging the gap between the coaches and the players. Because the players are here talking amongst themselves on their cell phones all the time, very interconnected, and the coaches are kind of old school, wanting everybody just to do it their way, and they're trying to lay down the law, and the players are going a different direction. And trying to bring them together, and there's some really cool research around the different cultures that I believe came from these generations. And I'm going to say this, like, the best teams are the ones that have a collaborative culture, where we're sharing and working together. And you think about that. So my wife and I, Mackenzie and I, we used to have a cabin up in Island Park for a while. So we've seen grizzly bears in the wild. We've, we had to get bear training, having a cabin up there. Cause sometimes we go onto the, up to the cabin and there's a little causeway to get on the island. And there'd be a sign at the gate saying, beware, there's a bear on the, on the island. And we're like, we, so you have to get bear training of whether it's a black bear, brown bear or grizzly. And we've seen them in life, man. They're fearsome creatures, the grizzly. You don't lay down or you run. If you see a grizzly, you do, you just don't hang around, but they're not top of the food chain. A pack of wolves are top of the food chain in North America, but you see a wolf by itself. That's not much bigger than a dog. How on earth is a pack of wolves higher up than a bear? Well, because they collaborate every single day. Member of that pack has their own strengths and has their own roles and they all communicate and work together as a collective whole. Every single one of them has their own identity, but that identity is connected to the rest of the pack. And there is a leader, but that leader is out in front, not up above. You think about that. That's why we lost again against the Indiana Pacers. This is why the teams that The modern day team is a collaborative team, not a hierarchy. And that's why you see teams like the Lakers and these older teams. They just, it's not about how many stars you have on the team. It's how good the team collaborates.
Britain 2:so true. I mean, that's so fascinating, mating to me as well. I even just compare, uh, our team two years ago that went to the Superbowl. Right. To our team last year and just the subtle little differences that there was in culture. We were so lucky to have guys like Jason Kelsey, right. Who really were in a different generation than a lot of these rookies coming in and me, but like you said, they were able to collaborate I don't know build a culture where everybody's personality was kind of accepted. You know, it's kind of like the DBs are a lot more free flowing and you got to let them be that.
Craig 2:subculture. Yeah,
Britain 2:Right. But then the offensive linemen are a lot more strict, sturdy. You know, kind of in a box. Anyways, it's That's very interesting. Um, I also at the very end of this would love to just come back to the idea. I'm so fascinated by just that combination of all three, right? The serotonin, the dopamine, and I forget that the other word is.
Craig 2:yeah, and endometer. Yeah, it's a good question.
Britain 2:love the idea of kind of trying to almost have those three circles and fill those three cups, have a goal, but know who you are first. So at the end, remind me, I want, I kind of want to finish with, with that question. There is something I have been wanting to ask you because I feel like it's something that I've felt a lot. And I'm sure a lot of people listening to this will relate to it. Um, just to kind of. Switch gears a little bit. I love the idea of having confidence in yourself, right? You talk a lot about confidence in your book and how that right. Learning erases fear, having confidence in yourself, erases fear. What about when an authority figure. Comes into the room Because it's one thing to be nervous about the public perception of you. But another thing, when there's an authority figure like your boss, right? I take, for example, in our practices, there's only so many times the head coach can be with your group. And so that happens for maybe five minutes. And in those five minutes, it's like our group always tenses up just a little bit more. And, uh, I imagine. You know how teachers, when the principal like once a semester will go in the back of the classroom to watch and our teacher, I would always see it on their faces would just tense up and get nervous or we're in a sales meeting. I'm sure people are really good at it. And then the 1 time that their bosses in, they, they start to get nervous. I'm just curious if you've, thought about that at all, that idea of. Authority figures and how to handle the fear or pressure that they might put on you.
Craig 2:So going back to these 5 cultures really helps me to understand that. And I mean, there's obviously a lot that we could talk about. But for me, what I've learned is again, if going back to what we talked about, if you know who you are, you know, your strengths and, you know, you're unique and everyone has their own unique strengths. We're all different. And so we have our own strengths and I know all of the skills I've worked on, which in my field, we call that being consciously competent, knowing your thoughts because awareness is key, right? Without awareness, the opposite of awareness is blind spots or ignorance. And you think about how dangerous that is when you, when something's in your blind spot. So intelligence is awareness. The more aware you are of who you are and the skills you've developed and the more unique and comfortable you are with yourself, you're unapologetic. Okay. Cause you know what you're good at the head coaches, hopefully good at what they go through, but also understanding the different generations and the evolution I'm big on evolution because as we evolve, you know, you learn so much more. So say somebody comes in a room. That's like a head coach. Honestly, I'm at a stage of my career. I don't care because I know who I am and I know what I'm good at. And I'm not saying I'm better than others in their other area. You're just confident in who you are and the skills you develop. That's not pride because pride comes from comparison. So when you know who you are and you're confident in yourself, but you know, you got to be humble and keep learning all the time. Somebody will come in. I just don't care because I know who I am and how I like to do things and what works for me. And I just, it's almost like there were just equals. That's that flat culture. It's like when I was speaking the other day and your dad was there, I saw him. I met him on the way in and I didn't think about it anymore because I had to execute what I wanted to execute. Well, I mean, your dad is somebody I love and, you know, we're here, all of everything he's done in his area, but still, I'm going to do it my way. Even when I speak so many times in the business world, I did a big, big one down in Vegas and they're like, Hey, we need your slide deck. I said, slide deck. What generation are you from? Slide deck. I'm not doing a slide deck. Well, we got this massive big screen here. So what are we going to put up on it? I stress them out so bad. The event, people that put on the events, I'm like, I'm good. I don't need anything. They're like, what you're speaking for three hours. No, I'm good. I turn up with a piece of paper and they're just stressed so bad. They like that. We got an iPad for you. It's up there so you can draw on the iPad and it can go on the screen. I'm like, guys, it's not who I am. This is who I am. This is what I'm good at. I'm not getting outside of it. I've never used an iPad up on stage at all. I'm not going to start now. And that's the biggest thing I've learned is don't try to be somebody you're not. And I get up there with a piece of paper and I talk. About the science. I know, and I use stories and I know my areas of how I do it. And they're always, I don't know. I just need to be, you need to be humble. But, but you know, I know who I am and I know what I'm good at. I'm going to stick to it and I'm going to keep trying to get better. And if I do that, it always works out. Well, the only time at work doesn't work out, it was when I start trying to be somebody I'm not. And that's the, the, the key thing is when you know who you are, it doesn't matter about the authority figures anymore, because this is your lane. I'll even go further like this. Times. You know, with the box and different things and I, the GM for the box is unreal, but there's sometimes that some of these people that like the GM and authority figure, he's like, he'll say to me, there's a few times like, well, I don't want to tell you to do your job, but I just want to say this. I'm like, well, you are telling me how to do the job, but, but this is the area when you know, you are, this is what a commitment culture is, by the way, this is what a collaborative commitment culture is from the research. You own your lane, you're responsible for your lane and you own it. And you have huge accountability for your lane. And that's where the autonomy comes. You have autonomy in your lane. And there's a few times I'm like, Oh, no, no, no. This is my area. This is my field. This is my, I'm the expert in this. So I want to do it this way because I'm going to be responsible for it in the end. If I do it the way you want me to do it now, I can't be responsible for that because that's not what I believe is the right way to do it. And that's what a commitment culture is. Is when people really know what their roles and responsibilities are, and it's clear what their lane is, then they own it. And when they own it, that's when people really thrive, when they own it. So, yeah, an authority figure is, I don't really worry about them. I always be respectful to them, always. And I hope they're respectful to me, but never disrespectful. But I own my area and I'm responsible for it always.
Britain 2:yeah.
Stephen 2:I love that perspective. Do you think something else? And I think, I think it might be related where you, and this, this is the impact your book had on me years and years ago was around this idea of, ego oriented person versus a task oriented person. I'm thinking of the example of an authority figure coming in where an ego. And so maybe. You can describe what the two differences are, in my own words, I would say someone who's an ego oriented person, the moment their boss walks into the room or someone's a coach is watching them, then they're feeling like the weight of the world is on them. They feel like. I've got to perform or else I'm going to suck versus a task oriented person who is only focused on, I'm just going to execute this task. I'm going to enjoy doing it. I'm going to get better.
Craig 2:Yeah, exactly like, yeah, you're nailing it there. Like, when they, when an authority figure comes in, they, to me, it's irrelevant because this is my job, my role. I got to stay focused on the task. You know, I'm going to speak with as much precision and accuracy around the areas of my. That I'm responsible for whether they're there or not, because I'm going to be accountable for it. And I think that's really why I understand the different generations is big, because anyone that comes in that thinks they're an authority and thinks they're above us, that that's automatically the wrong mindset, because that's your ego wanting to be above others. You can be the CEO of a company, but that doesn't mean you know anything about performance psychology. So why would you come in with any authority over something you don't know anything about? You know, and I'm not going to listen to that advice for the most part, because just because of the CEO doesn't mean, you know, this field. So I'm not going to really, I'll be always be respectful to people, but I'm not going to trust it. I think the words trust, right? And I love that the speed of trust, trust is massive. And I heard this quote from, and it's hard to, you know, but I just got to say, like, I learned this from an apostle where that said, God loves all of his children equally, but he does not trust them all the same. I absolutely love that because it shows that we're all equal on the same level from a, the value in our souls and who we are, but the trust level is different depending on how competent you are, the more, the more high functioning a human being, you are, the more you're going to trust yourself and the more others will trust you, but trust is earned. Trust is always earned and trust is earned by the level of competency you are. Just because you're the CEO, I'm not trusting you just because you're the CEO. I respect your title, but that doesn't mean you're competent. You could be, I've seen surgeons, I've been around surgeons that I'm like, dang, you're low functioning. Just because you're a surgeon doesn't guarantee you're high functioning. I've seen like people that work on crossworks be incredibly high functioning human beings that I want to get to know more. Your title doesn't always mean you're high functioning at all.
Stephen 2:I just want to emphasize this for anyone listening, you need to read the book. If, if you're someone who's struggling, like I was, and again, I just not, I'm not perfect with this. It's not like I've fully overcome this yet, but I was really, anytime I was in a high pressure sales situation, I would totally fold because I had this ego orientation and I felt like the weight of the world was on me, but when I read your book and switched that to being. This task oriented and it's kind of like you're saying, it's like, you don't care who's in the room with you, you know, who you are and what you, the task you need to complete and what you're going to do and who you are as a person completely shifted my, like the trajectory of, of my career. Because I went into, sales meetings, not saying to myself, if I don't make this sale, I'm not going to provide for my family. I'm not this, this, like it was a spiral versus going in and saying, Hey, I've prepared for this. I'm going to have fun and learn from this experience. And, I don't have full control over the outcome, but I am going to control. The things that I can control and then ironically, ironically, you start making more sales, you know, so
Craig 2:Yeah, but you'd relate to this. I remember years ago, I was, I became friends with Bronco Mendenhall. We used to play tennis together first. We were friends before anything else. And he read the book and he liked it. So he invited me over to go and do a session with all these coaches. I mean that, talk about male testosterone in one room, right? This is a while ago. And so I walk in, I get there early. I'm always early. I'm there five minutes early and the door shuts when I'm walking down the hall. I'm like, what is going on? Then the door opens and they bring me in and Bronco's like, we need to, you know, give Craig some leeway here. Cause he doesn't know that we're, the meetings always start five minutes early. I'm like, okay. And I just walk in just kind of like, Hey, how's it going? Just like, Just being myself and I love Robert and I had such a good relationship with coach and I, he, he just, he, he was awesome. I loved him, but he's given me the death stare as I'm walking in and all of a sudden I'm like, holy, holy cow, I got to turn it on. I'm going to get eaten alive. These coaches are just staring at me like, who the heck are you? And I did what you're saying. Like Stephen, I just went into, okay, this is okay. I got to switch in. I got to be assertive. I got to do my thing. I'm going to focus on the task and I'm just going to do what I need to do. And I just did it. And Bronco's like, Hey, everyone, I need a meeting with just Craig, Robin and myself, everyone's out. I was like, Ooh, I guess. Uh, and that was the beginning of working with the football team. But I just went in at first. I was like, Oh, I'm going to get eaten alive. Oh, okay. Now I got to do my thing, focus on the task, do what I know is right and just do my stuff. That's the biggest thing I wish I'd learned when I was younger is. Own who you are, know your strengths, own who you are, and just keep learning and keep getting better. There's no fear when you do that. And so, by the way, can we hit that, guys, for a minute? There's two parts in the prefrontal cortex that we can see. We can see the heat signatures and we can see the gray matter now because of the fMRI. One of the parts is the amygdala, which houses fear. So this is amazing research. Fear is a concept or a construct, meaning we create fear. through reactive language. Don't miss this. I can't do this. I can't do that. That triggers the limbic system's fight or flight response. Fight leads, creates angry emotion and flight creates high anxiety. If we could become too angry and we have too much anxiety that leads to aggression, whereas where we act on that emotion that stems from a concept, there's three levels, the opposite part of the brain, the same almond shaped part, this it's an almond shaped part. The opposite is called the hippocampus. And this is unbelievably important. I think the direct opposite of fear is learning. Well, why? Well, because fear is a concept or a construct that we create, meaning we create fear through our own thoughts. Learning is the complete opposite. When you develop a learning mentality, not a growth mentality, a learning mentality, there's a subtle difference. You stop judging yourself. And I'm going to use this language. We as a human race have such a bad habit of making all of these snap dot judgments that we judge ourselves in one moment all the time. But when you have a learning mentality, you just stop judging yourself. Every moment in time is an opportunity to learn more about who you are and to learn more about life. So you just stop judging. Judgment goes and it's just you trying to learn and become better. And so learning leads to memory recall. And so that's massive. There's way more here and I don't want to take the whole session. Let's just go too deep. The opposite of high anxiety and anger is memory recall, which is fascinating to me. The research actually shows you don't really lose your memory because of age. You lose your memory because the older you get and the more angry emotions or the more high anxiety emotions you store in your subconscious, the more you forget things. You don't remember things when you're angry. You think about with your spouses when you're angry after a while You don't even remember what you're angry about You're just angry that they're angry because you can't remember things when you're angry and you can't remember things when you have high anxiety So the more you learn to be a learner and the more you learn to relax and not trigger fear The better memory recall you have the better memory recall you have the more intelligent you are the more you remember all your skills Especially in athletics, that memory recall is what is how we unlock our talents is by having a better memory. It's unbelievable. The athletes have had the blessing to work with the best. They have incredible memories. They remember everything and that's why they do so well.
Britain 2:Yeah, I've seen, I mean, I've seen videos of LeBron recounting plays from years ago
Craig 2:Yeah.
Britain 2:to the tee, right? I mean, I mean, I can even think of plays back, you know, like you said, in some of some of your best games, you can think of plays. That's so fascinating. It's almost that idea of your mind is always occupied, but it can't. Host the two things at once. It's either here or there.
Craig 2:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yep. Two different parts of the brain.
Stephen 2:Let me ask you something, Brett. so talking about this, this concept of fear that, that Dr. Manning, you just talked about, Brett, what was it like for you in the Superbowl two years ago going in? Did, where were you at as far as fear, anxiety? I was at the Super Bowl. I was watching Brit in the stands. It was awesome. First time I've ever been to the Super Bowl. Brit had some awesome plays. He almost took a punt to the house. One guy, that was all there was. But I remember being in the stands, sitting there, when Kansas City was punting to you, and just, like, I was dying in the stands, right? I mean, how do you, like, Like, how was that, how was that for you right? You grew up your whole life watching the super bowl and then you're doing one of the hardest plays in football, catching a punt. How do you deal with fear on the, on the field?
Britain 2:Yeah. And I think, um, you know, specifically being a punt returner is one of those unique positions where, you know, a lot of people think like everyone's judging you, all the eyes are on you know, as a part of Turner, everybody is judging you and all eyes are on you. It's just one of those positions
Craig 2:1 else.
Britain 2:nobody else back there, right. You do feel a little bit alone. And honestly, I've learned so much about myself, about this concept in the last two years. Like if I were to compare where I am today as to where I was, you know, as a rookie, um, just mentally. And it's kind of, for me, especially in the super bowl or in any big game I play in, it's like you said, Dr. Manning, kind of that acceptance of, I'm going to live with the outcome. Um, And I'm going to focus, I've learned, and I actually learned this from, from our mental health counselor, I've learned to focus on one kind of specific bodily movement that focuses my mind in a different spot, uh, because my mind can only be occupied by multiple things. And so with the super bowl, I was like, I can either think about how big the situation is, or I can think about putting my right elbow to my rib cage. Because that's like my one task that I've got to do. And, uh, for me, just kind of filling my mind with that thought totally is like what you said it, it, the hippocampus or whatever, right. It kind of drives the learning and the focus on the technique and. And that idea of memory muscle memory, and it takes away the, I, all of the big anxiety, futuristic thinking what's going to happen. I think I'm at a point in my career now, not always because I do still get really nervous all the time. And I think that's probably normal, but where, when I do get nervous, I know what pattern of thinking can help me,
Craig 2:have the mental skills. I would say this way. You have the mental skills now that you know what you need to focus on to navigate that pressure. The pressure doesn't go away and the nerves doesn't go away. You just have the skills of how to deal with it. Yeah. Good job. Yeah.
Britain 2:I, Yeah. I mean, I would love to have you as a contact this year. I mean, it's still, it's so interesting and I'm sure you, you have such insight with working with guys like Giannis and it just, the balance of. Of, uh, okay. Not worrying about the outcoming, the anxiety of what could happen, but then also the visualization and visualizing positive outcomes, it's that same concept of goals and, you know,
Craig 2:to play. Always. Yeah,
Britain 2:to believe always. And so, yeah, I have so many, I w I could just grill you for hours,
Craig 2:I would love to. Yeah, let me know for sure. Anytime you want to.
Britain 2:I'll have you come speak to the Eagles.
Craig 2:Yes. No, that'd be great. It's so interesting what you talk about, though. Can I just add to that? Like some of this stuff you just said, I remember game six. We're at the FISA forum in Milwaukee. And I knew what all the players were focusing on. I mean, obviously didn't work with all of them, but worked with a big percentage of the team, getting everybody focused. I did a lot of work, not just with the players, but with the support staff, like even the security wanted to make sure everyone was communicating the same thing. We didn't want any security guard saying, Oh, how's your knee? Is your knee still hurting? I'm like, you can't focus on what's wrong. You got to focus on. The right things we were doing trainings for everyone to keep everyone in the right mindset, you know, and then we're at the game for me, being present is big, just being in the moment, enjoying the game, not stressing about the future, but being present and enjoying it. And all of a sudden I remember is just. We sit right behind the bench and all of a sudden the head security guy comes up and says, when we win this, get on the floor. And I was like, what Australia was like, what the heck you thinking about? Stay in the present. And I look up and Giannis and Chris are celebrating and I stood up and I was like, what? And then I look at the scoreboard and I'm like, uh, actually, I don't think we can lose this now. I think we've got this. So I'm calculating. Like there's no way they can come back. I was like, what happened? Like time, like you're just so present. You're not letting your mind go to the future. You're not in the past. You're just so in it all of a sudden we'd won. And I was like, uh, we just won the NBA championship. How did that happen? All of a sudden, I mean, we lose that game and we go back to Phoenix. We'd only ever beaten them once. Our coach had never beaten Phoenix except for that game five. Like this, we needed to win this game, but if you focus on winning, you don't win because that's outcome, right? Because you don't execute all of a sudden with one. And I was like, how did that happen? I don't even know how that happened. It just happened. But everyone was so present and so focused on the task. No one was thinking about winning. It happens if you focus on the process that winning just takes care of itself. Yeah, that was, so that just really, what you're talking about, Brit, there, it just, same for even me, when I'm watching, I have to be present when I'm watching. Otherwise, I don't enjoy it. It
Stephen 2:What a story, that's amazing.
Craig 2:Yeah, it was weird.
Stephen 2:This is, this has been amazing, Dr. Manning. Again, we could go on for hours, but,
Britain 2:Yeah.
Stephen 2:Brit, I'm, yeah, I'm gonna, Brit, you kinda have the closing one, uh, with, with how you wanted to, to wrap it up,
Britain 2:yeah, well, first, just thank you so much. Seriously, it's, it's
Craig 2:having me, y'all.
Britain 2:Such pleasure. Um, and especially for me, you know, someone who's been around some incredible athletes and just try, I I'm like a fly on the wall whenever I'm around guys like Jalen, you know, Kelsey Lane Johnson. Um, so it's, it's really cool just to hear. Um, I think just the one thing that, that I want to, and I'm sure the listeners would, would like to know is give us in your mind, some application that you start on, obviously read the book that's application one. But, but, um, this idea of knowing who you are or, finding your purpose, whatever it is, give us some application that you can start on kind of a starting point, something that we can do. Today, um, that will help us in that journey, that path.
Craig 2:So this is a simple thing I start everything in the formula is love equals competency. So this goes, this is not nothing new. This goes back to Pavlov, although there's so much cutting edge research that's coming out because of the effort. But this goes back to Pavlov and his dog, simply get a journal and write down at the end of each day, three things you did well, and one thing you can do better. What that will do is it will bring awareness to the things you're good at, to your strengths, your competencies. So that's massive. Number one is figure out what your strengths are. Second is ask yourself the question, what do I love to do? Because love will help you to reveal nine out of 10 times, not always, but for the most part, focusing on what you love, you'll find where your competencies are. So it's an equal, right? So love equals competency, but competence equals love. So really try to figure out your strengths and who you are and what you love to do. And it can be physical, can be mental, can be emotional. You know, one of my four kids. His strengths is academics, you know, he's just so smart. And so we're trying to foster that and build that around his strengths. One of my kids is very, very right brained, which I am not in trying to help her find her strengths, which is drawing and arts. And it's just not my area, but trying to help her find that, you know, obviously I was a tennis family and everyone thinks you have to do what your parents did. No, I knew the science. I tried to help my oldest daughter. What do you love to do? do? you love tennis? I take him down at two o'clock in the afternoon in the middle of summer when it's the hottest. And drill them in tennis. And they'd be within half an hour wanting to sit on under the tree that you don't love tennis, but Abby got into rock climbing. She, she's like, I'm going to do rock climbing. Like she was stubborn. I'm like, great. I just want you to do what you love. I mean, she ends up making the Australian Olympic team and finishing 21 in the world and the 21 and numbers, because she did something she was passionate about. Right. If you know who you are, that helps you get in a flow state, which is a superpower. So if you know who you are, you're going to know what you want that helps you get in a flow state, and you're going to work on skills, and you're going to develop skills so rapidly because you're always thinking about it, and it's always on your mind. So to me, comes back to focus on what you love and focus on the things that you do best. The three to one, three things you did well, one thing you can do better. It's just such a good mental habit.
Britain 2:Oh, I love that. I'm going to, I'm going to follow up with you about that. I'm starting that and I'll follow up with you about that before this season.
Craig 2:Sounds good, mate. Absolutely.
Stephen 2:that's great. Well, thanks again, Dr. Manning. This was awesome. Really appreciate your time.
Craig 2:Yeah. Thanks, Steven. Appreciate it. Thanks guys.