Exploring the Sexy Side of Psychedelics with Joe Moore Part 2

Step into the fascinating realm of psychedelics and their transformative potential with us, as we welcome Joe Moore, co-founder of Psychedelics Today. Together, we tackle the macho culture in professional sports and ponder the shifting perceptions around psychedelics, brought to light by athletes like Aaron Rodgers. Psychedelics could be the paradigm shift in mental health and sports psychology, enabling athletes to face mental health issues head-on. But how?

The second half of our conversation dives into the healing abilities of ketamine and psilocybin, substances that are not just mind-altering but potentially mind-healing. Discover how they could promote nerve tissue regrowth, help individuals resolve traumatic experiences, and even induce mystical experiences. But psychedelics are powerful substances, and their use comes with a certain level of caution. We delve into the ethical concerns within psychedelic spaces, emphasizing the importance of informed consent, sober guides, and the role of breathwork for personal growth. Strap in for an intellectually stimulating episode packed with expert views and compelling dialogue.

If you want to learn more, check out https://psychedelicstoday.com/ 

Chapters

• 0:00 Psychedelics and Mental Wellness in Sports
• 12:27 Ketamine's Potential in Therapy and Psychedelics
• 23:04 Ethics in Psychedelic Spaces

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Are you saying?

Speaker 2: 0:01

you faked with me, yeah.

Speaker 3: 0:03

I just can't say oh, oh, oh.

Speaker 2: 0:08

Oh, I can't wrong now you're single.

Speaker 1: 0:10

What do you know about sexual relations? Is it true that if you don't use it, you use it?

Speaker 3: 0:16

I'm a little worried about being a slut. You're listening to the Come With Us podcast Talking the good, the kinky and the ugly. Here are your hosts, beth and Erin.

Speaker 1: 0:28

Hello, hello, hello. All you sexy whores and polled, are you ready for some exciting maybe mind opening, mind boggling out of your mind experiences today on Come With Us podcast, because we're talking all about psychedelics Psychedelics and how they can help your sexy life as well as your relationship, and what to look for, what to be careful of. We've got an expert. He is Joe Moore from Psychedelics Today, where he is the co-founder. Psychedelics Today is convinced that psychedelics are going to disrupt the way that humanity approaches healing and wellness, creating a whole new paradigm for healthcare and cognitive liberty like that right. So Psychedelics Today. They are the leader in education media advocacy when it comes to this topic and they have 2.2 million annual learners on their website, psychedelicstodaycom. So thank you, joe, for joining us again today. We're so excited. We started last week and we kind of went all over the place because there are so many questions and your story from computer software engineer to psychedelics is pretty amazing. So I encourage all of our listeners, if they haven't listened, to go back there and go listen.

Speaker 1: 1:47

And, by the way, I always forget this. I get so excited wrapped up in the guest. I forgot to mention the fact that I'm Beth Darling, here with Erin. You can find me at BethDarlingcom. You can find my book, the Five Kinds of Intimacy how to Keep your Love Alive, and my video classes on all sorts of let's see blowjobs, cunnilingus, prostate pleasure at BethDarlingcom. So go check those out too, while you're checking out or after you check out psychedelics today. So anyway, thank you, thank you. Thank you, joe, for sticking with us and having a whole another episode where we have a whole list of topics to dive into. And, erin, you want to start. I always feel like I get so excited and I just take over the whole microphone.

Speaker 2: 2:27

So I mean, well, one of the first things that popped into my mind when we realized that we were going to have you on Joe was at least for a guy in my world where sports is a huge part of my occupation and stuff like that Aaron Rodgers, nfl star quarterback, one of the best to play the position Right now. He's hurt because he's old and he's frail, it happens, but he is, over the last three years or so, made his brand not quarterback, star football player. He has now made his brand psychedelic ambassador, I guess, of the world, and it's interesting because it's psychedelic ambassador to a world of, I guess, consumers that would never have been really tapped, because if you think of your average NFL audience, you're thinking guys in their early 20s, all the way up to their 50s or 60s, who are pretty straightforward. Some make a lot of money, some don't.

Speaker 2: 3:32

But we talked a little bit about the drug war last week, but that drug war had a huge impact on the psyche of everybody in my generation and Gen X was the start of hitting that, and then it just carried on. So now you have a guy who plays one of the most important jobs in all of sports Go, oh yeah, as soon as the season ends or as soon as the week is, I'm done playing, I'll just go and I'll take what's his favorite ayahuasca or whatever it is, and yeah, I just use that and I'm fine. So from your perspective, I'm not sure how much you know about him and know about how much he's, I guess, not affecting the psychedelic world, but kind of rebranding it or trying to promote it.

Speaker 4: 4:24

So he, you know, obviously an amazing athlete. He's the amount of stress professional athletes have to put themselves through, from probably the time middle school was going down till the time they retire. At what? Somewhere between 23 years old and 60, 55 maybe. So, like you know, it's insane, right, and it's really traumatic. And then there's also the issue who am I now, after I'm no longer an athlete, after I exploded my knees for the NFL, for other people's pleasure, right? So you know who am I? What am I supposed to be doing now? Because I was told my whole life it was just money and fame, and you know they don't really get a lot of. You know great advice.

Speaker 1: 5:18

And you know, maybe some of them do.

Speaker 4: 5:20

But generally speaking, it's not great, and psychologists and psychiatrists can only do so much, especially if you're an Apex predator athlete who's doing amazing stuff Like, are you really going to talk to your psychiatrist? Well, I think what was that soccer show that we all love?

Speaker 2: 5:40

Ted Lasso yeah.

Speaker 4: 5:42

So, like that was a really good example of athletes dealing with psychologists, though it worked really well for those individuals, but it, you know, generally probably won't, because it's such a tough guy culture, right.

Speaker 2: 5:53

And from a sports perspective, I mean, yes, teams all across the world bring in sports psychologists, but they are specifically that sports psychologist. Their whole job is breaking down. Why can't I throw my curveball anymore? Why can't? Why am I, you know, not paying attention to the snap when I need to be kind of stuff like that? Why can't I hit a free throw? It's all about the mental breakdown of your performance on the field or on the court kind of thing, and I don't know. I've never been at it because I wasn't a professional athlete, but I'd be really interested to know how much they go into the root and go down deeper than the. This is my profession and why am I not succeeding at my profession? Like, I want to level versus. You know, like how many of these guys are taking that and going okay, I'm taking this and I'm going to apply it to my life outside, outside of sports and outside of my profession, once I cash those million dollar checks.

Speaker 1: 6:49

I will just tell you, and then we'll get back to the drug situation. But I will tell you that people do not make deep growth changes without going deep into their psyche and their history Otherwise. So the best sports psychologists are going to have to figure out who you are at your core to help you be your best on the surface. It just has to so so on from the sports perspective.

Speaker 4: 7:18

they're probably helping people manage their anxiety, their stress. How do I get optimum optimally healthy, which isn't necessarily a real thing, it's a imaginary target and you know, stress, anxiety, like are there weird relationship things going on in your world that could help you? You know, if you resolve that, maybe do your. You know, pulling from the mighty ducks and knuckle puck Maybe get your knuckle puck dialed again you know, so like how.

Speaker 4: 7:47

That's probably what they're focusing on in terms of, like, root cause analysis and resolution there. I don't know that that's their job necessarily, though I'm not doubting that some of these sports psychologists can do that and help people with that but psychedelics plus Therapy are really where we can get to the root cause. Like Rogers probably has all the people in the world helping him, all sorts of amazing people around him supporting him. Like a Person like that probably has like greater than 20 people working on him at all the time.

Speaker 2: 8:20

Oh yeah, cuz he's got all the money in the world that he needs.

Speaker 1: 8:23

Is he saying? Is he supporting them or encouraging them from From a health, get healthy, get smarter, get clearer perspective, or just from an amusement perspective?

Speaker 4: 8:35

Roger's is probably not recreating on ayahuasca. Ayahuasca is not used for that. It's um, it's really intense experience. There's vomiting involved, there's sometimes diarrhea involved.

Speaker 1: 8:48

I haven't had. Yeah, I've heard that, which is what stops me from trying it.

Speaker 4: 8:52

I have to tell you I'm not into diarrhea in front of people.

Speaker 2: 8:56

I'm not into either of them. Ever it been much less in front of people. But Beth, from the from the Rogers perspective, like this, last year he was unhappy with the team he was on, so over the offseason he decided he needed to go on a darkness retreat and I don't know what he took going into said retreat or what he took. Well, he was in, but he went into a hut that was designed to be blackout dark for three straight. It was three straight days, I think wow and and. So that that's the kind of mind that he's now come to of.

Speaker 2: 9:29

You know it, it's gonna be a sensitive subject, but he was the one, or the biggest NFL voice who went I'm not injecting any vaccine into my body that I don't know what it's gonna do to me on the field, or off the field for that matter. And then he got in trouble because he told the NFL he got it and he actually didn't get it and he Actually went to them and said no, I found the loophole. I just didn't specifically say I got it, I just used your loophole to exploit why I didn't have to get it. So he was. He became the voice of like anti Pharmacology, you know, just here's a pill, shove it down your throat, it'll, it'll fix you, kind of thing, and started going more the psychedelic route.

Speaker 4: 10:09

Okay, we should dig into that first for a sec. Like this, this idea that, like, modern medicine is fixing our diseases. It's not necessarily true. Like sometimes yes, sometimes no. The biggest critique is like the biggest and most popularized critiques are things like psychiatric meds that might work for some indications but cause a whole host of side effects, yep, and they certainly do not cause a Actually resolve the underlying problem.

Speaker 4: 10:40

Yeah psychedelics and other methods psychedelics aren't the only one can help us dig in and actually resolve deep-seated traumas and deep-seated addictions and and sometimes chronic pain can go away. I'm I'm a Founder at a chronic pain treatment company using psychedelics and and there's actually some interesting performance Angles from this chronic pain method that we can bring in. Probably sexual performance too, like have you heard of this? This disease where Male orgasm is extraordinarily painful? So like this is a real thing.

Speaker 4: 11:18

And there's people, guys, I can't even mention this like just excruciating, like tear, like you're down on the ground on your knees, just like crying from the amount of pain you just experienced, so like that could be a highly neurological thing that Some methods that could employ psychedelics could also kind of treat.

Speaker 1: 11:37

There's, yeah, and so how do you think psychedelics or maybe you know, how do you how do psychedelics help deal with trauma, shame, guilt, deep-seated psychological issues?

Speaker 4: 11:56

So. So there's the MDMA model I talked about earlier. So we're pain. In the other episode, your fear response goes way down so that you can then actually Work through the experience, as opposed in the reliving of the experience, and the therapy coach, as opposed to like Deflecting, and it's like I'm only talking about the New York Jets and fried chicken.

Speaker 4: 12:17

Right, I'm not gonna talk about anything else, I'm only gonna talk about the things that feel safe and comfortable, whereas, like with under the influence of MDMA and a talk therapy scenario, you can actually work through whatever. That bad thing that happened to you was Verbally and then in a frayed way, ketamine.

Speaker 1: 12:33

Why have I heard like there's a movement using ketamine in all sorts of different treatments?

Speaker 4: 12:39

yeah, so Ketamine's on the the WHO's list of essential medications worldwide, so it's everywhere. It's actually really cheap. It's about $7 a gram doctor price. When you see what prices people want to charge you for those treatments you're like why is it too grand to go?

Speaker 4: 12:58

Yeah, exactly but I went. I went and got a prescription. It was 14 bucks for six 100 milligram pills and you know the prescription cost a lot of money but in the therapy cost on me the drug was cheap. I've had it in surgery a ton. So there's there's a number of things here. Ketamine actually Can help you regrow nerves. So dendritic arborization Dendritic arborization is a technical term they use so dendrites arborizing, so treating, and then there's new neural pathways that can develop. So there's nerve tissue regrowth that can happen, which is another reason why athletes like it after you knock your head around for 30, 40 years.

Speaker 1: 13:34

You can kind of recover a little bit, can you direct where those regrowth is, or is it just random throughout your body?

Speaker 4: 13:42

It would diffuse throughout your whole body. Yeah, okay. So think about somebody with what is it renaud syndrome? Or they don't have real feeling down here. So there's a micro dosing protocol you were asking about micro dosing earlier where people can dilate the Blood vessels like capillary level using something called niacin. It's a B vitamin, I think. And then you know, don't don't just take B vitamins like that. It's super uncomfortable, like do your research please.

Speaker 2: 14:10

Now I can do dosing advice, bernie. Yeah, yeah, I watched some friends, it was part of my good. Oh no, I took it as a as a workout supplement for years.

Speaker 4: 14:22

So you could do a psilocybin or ketamine after the ingestion of this niacin and theoretically get it down to the really, really, really small capillaries to hopefully bring back some sensation. And so you know, think of the implications for genitals or whatever like maybe that's what I was just thinking I know breast surgery with like cancer situation.

Speaker 4: 14:45

There's so many possible applications and that's, that's one level. So that's like the okay physical level. You're actually regrowing nerves and like training new neural pathways. And then Then there's the actual psychological, like I'll call it the psychospirical angle, where you can.

Speaker 4: 15:05

Align I like to use, and this is this is not why. This is why psychedelics are a little uncomfortable. So, like you know, your normal doctor will just give you things to suppress, so you can kind of just get by. In here we're trying to really amplify it to make you have the full experience of that thing and to resolve that thing. There's a classic line I like to use in my breath work facilitation where I say the full expression of an emotion is also its funeral pyre. So if we can, if we can bring that thing out and really exhaust the hell out of its fuel reserves. It's, you know, maybe it's still there, but it has, you know a couple of millions of fuel left.

Speaker 4: 15:45

It doesn't have gallons left.

Speaker 4: 15:47

Yeah and you know things like childhood sexual trauma, accidents, grief, all these things. We can work through them in these sessions and make a lot of progress. Things like MDMA will do this fine. Ketamine sometimes can do well here. Ketamine is kind of like this it's only really popular because it's legal. Now I think the other ones are gonna be a lot higher performers in terms of clearing up psychiatric indications.

Speaker 4: 16:17

And also in the Johns Hopkins literature there's all this talk of mystical experiences being the thing. So the bigger your mystical experience, the better your Psychiatric resolution is. Like that was there one of their biggest correlates. So like you see, god, big enough, you're health here. What the hell is that? Like that's a fascinating correlation that we don't understand yet in my world, transpersonal psychology like Sexual things will come up, spiritual things will come up.

Speaker 4: 16:46

I've seen somebody in a breathwork session Having the experience I talked to them after about it of giving birth to themselves and having sex With the thing that conceived them all at the same and giving birth at the same time. So it was like this triple layered experience and I'm watching it going down. Like that's a really weird experience. I guarantee you that's like an amazing thing that they're going through right now. But holy hell, that looks weird and you can get the stories from folks afterwards and and sometimes that can resolve trauma that happened to you at birth because you know we had a body at birth. So we can have trauma there. And even before birth we can have trauma right from, like autoimmune disorders Our host mother might have, or drinking disorder or something.

Speaker 1: 17:28

So Well, and that makes sense because I I was just reading something last week that that about infants actually do have memories. So it's just that they don't know how to organize them because they don't have language. So then, as they learn to speak, as we all you know, we reach toddlerhood and stuff those memories from before that are still there. It's just we can't access them because they're just like Mis-filed, if you will, or not filed and stuff. So that's interesting, that maybe Psychedelics might bring some of those to the forefront or something that's. Yeah, that's a very cool thing. Now I'm thinking okay, so I did, I did psilocybin, I did mushrooms only a few times, what, and Like three or four times, yeah. But I've realized one I have terrible ADHD. So cocaine, I tried that a couple of times.

Speaker 4: 18:18

That doesn't do anything for me, mdma does some people to sleep with ADD, which is wild.

Speaker 1: 18:24

I know that's right.

Speaker 4: 18:25

It's just our brains are crazy red balls and maybe you can not go to bed.

Speaker 1: 18:28

Yeah, maybe, but but I did MDMA too, and that didn't do anything for me, except that I did have to bite something that and I had none of the pleasure.

Speaker 4: 18:37

So kind of a scenario Did. Were you doing MDMA in?

Speaker 1: 18:39

I've done in a couple of different ones one with just one partner, one in a small gathering with friends that I completely trusted, and yeah, frankly, there was a bunch of nudity going on in a swimming pool, in a hot tub, and and I'm somebody who really likes touch, so I thought I'd be like all over, like okay, everybody touch me, no, nothing, so. But but then I did psilocybin and again I have to up the dose to something that most people my size probably wouldn't, according to the people who give it to me. And One time I had the greatest trip and that was, I said, this is like Disney World on neon and I don't ever want to be sober again. I Remember that it was awesome, I'm like, but why would I have that instead of some sort of spiritual something? I mean, I do love Disney, but how do you have, can you direct these things and make them what you want?

Speaker 4: 19:38

I wish I knew how much you ate.

Speaker 1: 19:40

Three grams, I know three three substantial as hell. Yeah, that's what they told me in in therapy.

Speaker 4: 19:49

Often it's somewhere between Mushrooms are so variable in terms of potency, like even if you pick two right next to each other in the same batch Could be plus minus 60% potency or more. We don't know that. We don't have that data yet. So Right the rough in Hopkins they're saying somewhere around three to six grams is kind of what they would feed people To have these kind of God experiences. So there's like dose dependency To it. But psychedelics aren't purely dose dependent. So imagine if you were, you know, with somebody you really respected and they were gonna bring you through a really safe, intentional, guided experience. It was largely inward right. So it's not about chatting with somebody, it's about like being safe, eyes closed, being really inward and being with yourself and a really intense and Extraordinarily intimate way with yourself. When do you get five hours, three hours, five hours to be with you, eyes closed with you, amplified, let's put it?

Speaker 3: 20:49

that way.

Speaker 4: 20:50

Yeah, never, we don't get that, you know. So that's, that's a scenario in which you could have one of those larger spiritual experiences, especially if that's what you were interested in. There's people that specialize in in creating those kinds of containers.

Speaker 1: 21:06

Wow, how do you find somebody who's good and who's safe, you know, like, if there are ratings system is there? Well, it's legal right.

Speaker 4: 21:14

Like we could all go to jail. So you have to really carefully build your own networks. You look at what's available in legal jurisdictions like Jamaica and Netherlands. So next time you go to hedonism you just spend a couple extra days and go down the street to the Jamaica, you know. Mushroom guy but you know, yeah, when we're talking international, there are reviews.

Speaker 4: 21:34

Okay and you can get some safety. I Tell people that really you know, not just get one referral, get like three or four referrals to the same place before you pull the trigger. I've seen some really bad stuff go down, so you want to be really careful. But there is a whole movement now of like psychedelic sex therapy. There's people working with couples under the influence. There's people Kind of coaching you on how to do it. There's all sorts of interesting stuff there.

Speaker 2: 22:04

Well, oh yeah, that brings me to like what about the whole Consent under the the influence of psychedelics? I mean, we have there's ongoing talks all the time about consent under all kinds of mind-altering drugs, whether it be alcohol or THC or anything like that. Like where, where does the line draw with it under psychedelics? Because you know you drink enough alcohol, you just black out, you don't remember anything, and that's a lot of people's go-to, for you know reasoning or excuse or whatever you what have you? But from psychedelics, like how, I Don't know just how does it, how does it get to?

Speaker 1: 22:41

work with it. Yeah, how do you suggest or advise people to deal with consent?

Speaker 3: 22:46

Great question.

Speaker 4: 22:50

Yeah, consent is a tough one here in psychedelia, but it's really important and essential so we don't like hurt more people. The drug war is hurting enough people, so we need to do better than that. The way we like to talk about it in the psychedelic space is after the drug was consumed, consent can't really happen anymore. Informed consent, safe, like real consent, can't happen after you guys take something. So it kind of has to be consent even before ingestion for it to be, you know, top tier, buttoned up, ethical.

Speaker 4: 23:26

I'm not going to say like every situation where that doesn't happen somebody needs to go to jail. I'm going to say like we need to just keep evolving, getting better and doing a better job with it. You know. So say that wild and crazy MDMA person comes around. They're on MDMA, you're kind of not really feeling it yet and all they want to do is like touch you and, you know, do whatever you're like. Oh god, like I didn't say you could like.

Speaker 4: 23:53

So maybe you know, sometimes it's fine, sometimes it's not, and I think at any point, if somebody you know wants to say no, they should, even if they have consumed the drug, they should be saying no and saying I'm out and yeah, we want, we really want top tier consent here because we want to be a leader in how the world should unfold. So, like I love when sex workers actually become educators in the space, I really appreciate their perspectives that they can bring and it's you know, it's a little edgy sometimes, especially when you're having to deal with a traditional psychiatrist and all of a sudden you put an active sex worker on stage. But I think there's some really big stuff there, because people are going to be having sex on drugs. You need to really understand. You know what do they want to do and how can you help them by giving them some sort of framework they can work with. You know, and consent way ahead of time is a big deal.

Speaker 1: 24:56

So I think actually because I had asked you, I forgot if it was this episode or before about a sober guide, and so maybe that's also that, like in the BDSM world, if you go into a dungeon, they'll have what they call dungeon masters and those people are there to just keep everything going smoothly, make sure nobody gets hurt accidentally, take care of anything, keep things clean, maybe other things with dungeon master.

Speaker 4: 25:20

But it makes sense, yeah, no, they really are there.

Speaker 1: 25:23

They're there just to keep things going and stuff, so maybe that's kind of a role also that the that a sober guide could do is okay. Here are the constraints, and if they see somebody getting a little too handsy, they could redirect them nicely before anybody gets upset or gets taken advantage of in a way that's not comfortable for them.

Speaker 4: 25:41

So in like my breathwork sessions. We really make it clear, because people can go pretty far Like we're doing zero sexual things here and everybody has to consent and agree to that. You know, hopefully you can keep your clothes on, but if you if you can't, we're going to help you. You know, stay covered up and like not weird out other people. And then, yeah, similar rules should be played in psychedelic sessions. So there's like a long history of psychedelic abuse, psychedelic sexual abuse, even in clinical trials and elsewhere. When I had run a few sessions in a legal jurisdiction years ago, I actually brought a video camera. So I had a camera running the whole time to say, okay, it's very clear that there is no sexual misconduct, so then we will delete this video. Great.

Speaker 4: 26:26

But that really makes people uncomfortable to have video Right.

Speaker 1: 26:30

Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, again, you got to trust the people you're with, because if you don't trust them, then you shouldn't be doing this stuff with them. That's, I think, kind of it. When you talk about your breathwork seminars, are those under an influence of something else or is it just sober breathwork? Really, yeah, high on life.

Speaker 4: 26:50

So my biggest experience was five hours long and as intense as my ayahuasca experience and it was like the pivotal experience in my life to shift me over to being like a real warrior for this stuff. And, yeah, I think of it as the same as psychedelic psychotherapy.

Speaker 1: 27:10

Okay and people want. Well, okay, me like can people sign up for that on your website? Do you offer or list your classes and stuff there?

Speaker 4: 27:19

Yes and no. We do breathwork retreats a few times a year. I'm trying to figure out how I can reasonably run these retreats. Now that I'm running a big business, I'm like I don't. Can I take time away to run a weekend?

Speaker 3: 27:32

I don't know.

Speaker 4: 27:33

So I, historically, was running them every few months up here. So check us out the two things to search for holotropic breathwork on Google or dream shadow transpersonal breathwork, and I guess there's another one called the grof legacy breathwork, grof being the psychiatrist that I'm really into. So you can find workshops all over the world, from Russia to Singapore. So yeah, and it's, it's worth it. It's worth it, I guarantee you folks will be curious.

Speaker 1: 28:03

Oh, I'm I'm totally curious, Erin, would you go?

Speaker 2: 28:06

Uh, maybe I just don't know. No, like, yeah, I know, and it's not that that bothers me, I just don't know enough about what it entails and stuff like that. And again, you know me, I don't have time to, you know, let alone sit down and watch a fucking TV show.

Speaker 1: 28:22

You know, but you do all this research.

Speaker 4: 28:25

I'd be like, sign me up, I don't know what I'm doing, I'm going, okay One way I like to talk about it and I've I've chatted about this with my, my siblings. It's, um, it's always better to do the deep inner work earlier in life. So you pass along less of that to the world and your family, um, and that's kind of like how I I get family people, uh, like yourself, like obviously like super busy, but you know it's an investment in their your world but really theirs too, their longterm well-being. I guess.

Speaker 1: 28:54

Yeah, yeah, I'm old, I'm 58 now and I just think, god, if I just had learned, if I knew some of this stuff existed so long ago, I would have been a better person sooner. I would have enjoyed my life even more not that. I regret. I have five kids. They're amazing, but I would have been a better parent and I would have been a better me for a lot of years that I wasn't.

Speaker 4: 29:17

Well, you still got some years left. Yes, thank goodness, I hope to jam in as much living as you can, and that's it right. It's, how do we, how do we really optimize for pleasure and great relationships and all of that? So we're what's the Hunter Thompson line. We don't want to be driving to the finish line of our lives in like a squeaky clean Cadillac. We want the wheels to be falling off and you know like it's a total rust bug and I'm like holy shit, he really did it yeah, right.

Speaker 4: 29:45

Like something with your knees hurting. A little less than that one.

Speaker 1: 29:49

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that's where you're going, there you go. So do you think? Do you think that once you've done all this work and everything, do you think your best sex is under the influence or sober now, because of what you've learned? Under the influence, hmm, I'll say sober.

Speaker 2: 30:09

Yeah, okay, and I'm kind of like the drug guy.

Speaker 4: 30:14

That's not like on drugs all the time like a lot of them are. So you know I rarely use relative to a lot of these folks. I still use plenty by conventional standards.

Speaker 3: 30:29

But yeah, I think.

Speaker 4: 30:30

I think there's something to the natural mind, but you can take lessons from psychedelia and implement them in your life. It's not like you just had this transient experience that has no meaning. It's like oh. I can learn a lot from that and imply a lot of lessons and have better sex and have a better life, and all of it. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 30:50

Not good. That, to me is is, yeah, the goal to really feel to make love, sex and romance like truly transcendent right, the best, truly the best part of life, so that you just want to enjoy it all completely sober, even if other moments you just enjoy being under the influence. So very cool, alright. Anything else you want to close, anything you want to share with our listeners you think is really important what they would want to know, what they should know.

Speaker 4: 31:20

We didn't talk about love at all oh please do yeah. Holes and holes, you know.

Speaker 4: 31:26

And but I think I think there's something about deepening our relationships and love scenarios and and probably even like broadening what we mean by love and how we experience love, how we do it, how we receive it. All that and psychedelics can play a really big role there. Otherwise, like the flower children, like free love, all that stuff probably wouldn't have gone down the way it did. And like, what are these new types of love? What are these new types of relationships that happen once you're in love with 100, 500 people or something? You know what I mean. So like, what does that look like? How does it impact our smaller scale, more nuclear looking relationships? And yeah, there's a lot there to dig into.

Speaker 4: 32:07

It's a yeah, I wish I could point people in a good direction to dig in there. But love is very important and love is a big part of sex, so people should definitely be investigating love and psychedelics.

Speaker 1: 32:20

That I really like, and again, again in my book, I talk about the fact that love is actually. Love can exist with zero intimacy, which is a really interesting thing. Right, intimacy and love are very separate and distinct. They're fucking fabulous when you merge them together, but they can exist without, so I do think it's like my relationship with Scarlett Johansson that doesn't exist.

Speaker 1: 32:44

Yeah, that's right and yet right, you can love, and that's the thing we can have great love for people that we just don't even know, just really don't. So, and yeah, I think I would hope that people would read, you know, my book, learn about the five kinds of intimacies and then use the psychedelics and other substances that that they hopefully might be able to find and get available to help them increase the levels of intimacy and help, hopefully, as you said, to lower their inhibition so that they are more open to receiving and to sharing of themselves and to being seen, because that's really hard. I say, from the time we're, we're born, we're pretty much taught to now hide ourselves, don't cry too much, don't want too much, don't whine, don't this, don't, don't, don't, basically repress yourself so that nobody else is bothered by you, and that's really a shitty way to be as a person.

Speaker 4: 33:42

So yeah, good, good ratios half people hate you, half of them like you.

Speaker 3: 33:48

Yeah, there you go yeah well thank you for this.

Speaker 2: 33:52

There's so much more to say, but yeah let's have you on again here in a couple months.

Speaker 1: 33:56

Yeah, I have. Yes, I love it, and people who want to learn more can go to psychedelics todaycom. Go check it out. Go check out their workshops, their podcast. What's the is the podcast called psychedelics today also, joe.

Speaker 4: 34:11

Yeah, okay, we're working on launching a network there's another one called Oakland leaks or, sorry, hi Fae leaks, which you can find on our regular website there and kind of giving voices to other folks that we find really important in the space, and I think we're going to do a lot more of that as well.

Speaker 1: 34:27

Terrific, and we also didn't get to talk at all about the effects on pain. But I know that's a big, big issue for you. Hopefully again when you come back we'll talk. But I would just say if somebody out there is suffering from chronic pain and serious pain, you might reach out to Joe on psychedelics todaycom and find out what sort of research and experimental it's. It's experimental, but some things that sound really exciting and that might be of great value to you. Amen, thank you. Yeah, knock on wood. I hope I wish for that. So, all right, well, thank you, thank you. Thank you, thanks everybody for listening and joining us. It's really exciting. I want to go get, I don't know, hi. What. What's the word? Is it just hi? It's not, because hi is like pot. What do you use if you want to go get out of your mind on?

Speaker 4: 35:14

psychedelics, A lot of things you could say conventionally. Call it tripping.

Speaker 1: 35:19

Okay, I want to get high works.

Speaker 4: 35:21

It's encompassing.

Speaker 1: 35:22

Okay, yeah, it will even say like I'm going to go get high on coffee.

Speaker 4: 35:27

No, I don't want to trip yeah makes me think of skipping.

Speaker 1: 35:30

I guess I'm thinking tripping, skipping. That's what I want to do. I want to get happy, yes, and solve all of my deep seated problems. So I really do.

Speaker 2: 35:38

Anyway, you got that.

Speaker 1: 35:39

It's. It's a pleasure, joe Moore, thank you. Thank you, thank you from psychedelics today. Erin, I hope you've learned something. I hope maybe one day we'll go to a breathwork class with Joe together sometime, and Danielle will come. We'll have all sorts of good times. So all right, everybody, thanks for joining us and don't forget, follow us on social media. Look for Joe psychedelics today on social media too. And then big hugs and love and we'll see you next week. Bye.

Speaker 3: 36:06

Thanks for listening to the Come With Us podcast. Be sure to follow us on social media at Come With Us podcast and send in your questions, comments and confessions to come with us. Confessions at gmailcom. Until next time, keep it fun, flirty and naughty.