21. How to build a million-dollar ecommerce business – Terry Peh

Are you looking to start your own eCommerce brand and build a tribe of happy customers? Or perhaps you already have an online store and you’re looking to grow your business while making an impact. If the answer is yes, you will love this interview!

Our guest is a well-known pet care entrepreneur here in Singapore, Terry Peh. In 2017, Terry left his lucrative corporate career and ventured out into the world of eCommerce, launching his own e-commerce brand, Good Dog People. In less than two years, the brand hit over a million dollars in revenue without venture capital.

Today, Good Dog People is one of Singapore’s top rated e-commerce brand for pet care. Well regarded as a dependable pet care provider, Good Dog People has garnered thousands of 5-star reviews, with a powerful mission to redefine responsible dog ownership, one dog at a time.

If you are are an entrepreneur or business owner, listen in at 5:53 where Terry shares how the name Good Dog People came about, and how you can use the same principle to create a memorable name and build a community with purpose.

And listen in to Terry's answers to the following questions:

• Terry, you had a high flying five figure monthly salary at a global tech firm. Why did you decide to take the path less travelled as an entrepreneur? – 1:18
• Was there anything that happened that allowed you to start an eCommerce business, no less a pet-based business? - 2:40
• Why Good Dog People? – 5:53
• What were some of the memorable struggles that you faced? – 9:22
• What was the other struggles you faced in building the business? - 17:52
• What are some of the metrics we need to pay attention to build a thriving eCommerce store? - 23:24
• How do you feel emotionally when things screw up in your business? - 29:44
• Do you have a way of reframing problems? - 32:20
• How do you deal with the consequences of certain problems you may be facing? - 34:30
• You have a lot of high-profile individuals supporting Good Dog People. How did you manage to attract high profile celebrities and public figures to be advocates of your business? - 39:27
• Now you’ve done Good Dog People, what’s next? - 43:36

If you want to keep in touch with Terry, you can reach him on Instagram @terrypeh, or Good Dog People @gooddogpeople.

Read these books to become highly sought after in your own industry -> www.pickericsbrain.com

Thank you for listening to this episode of #HighlySoughtAfter!

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Transcript

Eric Feng (Host):

Are you looking to start your own e-commerce brand and build a tribe of happy customers, or perhaps you already have an online store and you're looking to grow your business while making an impact? If the answer is yes, you will love this interview. Our guest is a well-known pet care entrepreneur here in Singapore. His name is Terry Peh. In 2017, Terry left his cushy corporate career and ventured out into the world of e-commerce, launching his very own e-commerce brand, Good Dog People. In less than two years, the brand hit a million dollar in revenue without venture capital. Today Good Dog People is one of Singapore's top rated e-commerce brand for pet care. Well regarded as a dependable pet care provider, Good Dog People has gotten thousands of five star reviews with a powerful mission to redefine responsible dog ownership, one dog at a time. So with all that said, it brings me great excitement to have Terry to share with you how you too can build a million dollar e-commerce business with [inaudible 00:01:05].

Terry (Guest):

[crosstalk 00:01:07].

Eric Feng (Host):

Yo! Terry, million-dollar question. Why do you quit your cushy corporate job and take the path less traveled to be an entrepreneur?

Terry (Guest):

Well, I had the best time of my life, I was flying business class, living in five-star hotels. I think at my early 30s that was really what I'm craving for, but that also led me to the darkest part of my life.

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh, why?

Terry (Guest):

There's a lot of [inaudible 00:01:34], no restraint, and I think that I was going through a period where this anxiety attacks. Yeah, and I got so tired and so restless. And I was looking around for other jobs. I look at [inaudible 00:01:49] I don't get excited, and that's something... Something is wrong, if I don't get excited, I can take the offer.

Eric Feng (Host):

And so true because if you think about it, we spend most of our time working. So whether you're an entrepreneur or corporate guy, if you don't enjoy your job, you're not excited, then good luck to you.

Terry (Guest):

Exactly.

Eric Feng (Host):

Okay.

Terry (Guest):

So I think that was the time when I decided, "You know what? This is it. I'm all off the corporate rat race. It's time for do something for myself." Yeah. So I got the blessing for my family, I think that's going to be a lot of drastic changes to my lifestyle.

Eric Feng (Host):

So true.

Terry (Guest):

But I didn't leave with a plan, I leave without a plan.

Eric Feng (Host):

So you just say, "Okay." One day you quit and that's it?

Terry (Guest):

Yeah. And that's it. But I had a direction. I know what... "I'm going to build an e-commerce business." Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah, let's go into that, why were you so certain that you want to build a e-commerce business? I mean, you could have done anything with your life as an entrepreneur, why e-commerce?

Terry (Guest):

Okay, a bit of back story, I was a creative in a advertising firm, I was a designer. Then I went on to be a project manager and also a [inaudible 00:02:57]. I was in advertising for six years, and for the next six years, I was also working for big coms, in insurance, actually, in medical device. So in the whole 12 years I was just doing, breathing digital. And because I used to travel a lot in North America and China, I see how digital changes the whole landscape. And Southeast Asia was lagging behind. So when I came back to Singapore, I think it's a no brainer, I'm so good in digital so that was the next step that I think [crosstalk 00:03:32].

Eric Feng (Host):

Very nice. [inaudible 00:03:32] you, but why pet care?

Terry (Guest):

Well, I was looking for different verticals, to be honest. And in 2017, there were many verticals that have already been disrupted, a lot of startups are getting fundings from investors, but pet care was pretty much untouched. And when I look inward I also asked myself, "If I built a business, what is my calling? What is the purpose?" And to be honest, I think after leaving corporate, I want to build a business where people could be thriving in a very safe workplace, and also, selfishly, I want to so-called rescue or save my family.

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh, every parent would love a son like you.

Terry (Guest):

Right. And I want them to be able to work alongside me. And you know what, today my dad is actually working with me. In fact, it's been a year, and it is a wonderful cycle. And yeah, I think pets is also one passion point where it binds the whole family together. So I think it's a no brainer.

Eric Feng (Host):

Fantastic. I can see how [inaudible 00:04:39] kind of all connects the dots. Remember Steve Jobs says, "All the dots connect when you look backwards." So e-commerce, no brainer because you were in tech.

Terry (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

And then you love pets, and it was an undisrupted industry, and you also want to bring your family along. Do they love pets like you as well?

Terry (Guest):

Oh, they do. So I used to live at my dad for awhile. So he love my two dogs. And I mean, if I look at the stats, if you look at the entire history of pet care as an industry, it's recession proof.

Eric Feng (Host):

Why would you say it's recession proof?

Terry (Guest):

So when you look, through the financial crisis in 2000, and before, pet care has always been doing very well, constant growth, you're don't see any dip, and if you look at the total number of pet ownership in Singapore, and the decline in birth rate.

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh my [crosstalk 00:05:31].

Terry (Guest):

Right, so w [crosstalk 00:05:32] pointing towards the decision to go into pets.

Eric Feng (Host):

Very cool. Now, for those of you who are listening to this and you go like, "Oh my God, I need to go into pet care." Wait, listen to the rest of the interview because I'm about to grill Terry to share with us how to build a thriving e-commerce company. All right. So before you jump deep into the deep end of entrepreneurship, please continue listening to this. Now, question, why the name Good Dog People? By the way, I love that name, but-

Terry (Guest):

Thank you.

Eric Feng (Host):

... How did you came up with this name, Good Dog People?

Terry (Guest):

It's funny because in 2017 we were supposed to launch in July, and when we just about to launch, we realized on, a Saturday morning I woke up, I was scrolling through my Facebook, and I saw, "Oh, man, there's a new competitor with a very similar name and with the asset corporate color."

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh dear.

Terry (Guest):

And I can't launch with the same name and branding.

Eric Feng (Host):

That's right.

Terry (Guest):

So I go to postpone the launch. And for the next two months I was a very, very stuck. I couldn't find a name [inaudible 00:06:31].

Eric Feng (Host):

How do you feel? You're about to launch, and then you see someone doing [inaudible 00:06:36] before you. I felt like it's like you see someone you like and you about the proposal to her and say, "Would you be my girlfriend?" And your best friend came along and just kind of took her away.

Terry (Guest):

You definitely feel very frustrated, you just want to get over it. And I was very anxious to get another name, but sometimes when you... The more anxious you are, the more difficult it is. And so there's a creative block. I couldn't find the right name. So I decided to just let go, not think about it. And sometimes inspiration comes at a weirdest time, and the most unexpected time. So I remember this one night, I was jogging, I was running, and I asked myself, "Okay, if I really go into pet vertical, what do I want to be known as?" And the answer is, "Well, maybe a good dog person." But I think I'm getting there, like, "Okay, maybe that can be a brand, but it's not catchy enough. What about Good Dog People?" And when I go into that, I get very excited. Something tells me that maybe this is it, right?

Eric Feng (Host):

You got it, yeah.

Terry (Guest):

And I went to my friends and my family and I asked them for their opinion, "How do you think of this brand?" And everybody love it. So that got me started.

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah, and it's very interesting because you didn't use the typical names like Pet Care Online, you know what I mean, the very standard kind of names. I feel Good Dog People is a certain identity.

Terry (Guest):

It is.

Eric Feng (Host):

Would you say that's the reason why people like it?

Terry (Guest):

I think the beauty of this name is also you do not have to invest a lot of money just to sell a story. The name says a lot about what we want to do, what the business is, and who you want to be if you are a customer, and you want to belong to this community of good dog people. And I think that's the beauty of this name. And I think since we launch it, we've been attracting all the like-minded people. They want to be responsible dog owners, and therefore, they come to us and they trust us enough to buy products off the shelves.

Eric Feng (Host):

I love it. So the next time around when we come up with a name, it has to tie back to our mission.

Terry (Guest):

The mission.

Eric Feng (Host):

Tie back to our core value.

Terry (Guest):

The philosophy.

Eric Feng (Host):

Or tie back to that brightness of future, what are you trying to build?

Terry (Guest):

Yes. Or maybe even a cost, or a common goal that we can work towards to, yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

So amazing. Okay. Well, thank you so much for giving us tips on names. So we don't have to go online to look for brand name generators. Instead it's about asking ourselves, what's that future we're trying to create? What's the identity that everybody can relate to?

Terry (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

Or, what's the cost that we're championing? And usually if we think along that line, we can come up with a great name.

Terry (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

I love it. Now, so let's go into your e-commerce business. I mean, as an entrepreneur, I feel you're fighting a battle every day.

Terry (Guest):

Oh, yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

[inaudible 00:09:21] three times a day. What was some of the memorable struggles that you faced in the business?

Terry (Guest):

When we first launch, definitely pricing. The competition is fierce. I think specifically predatory pricing, people are just selling products at a loss. And these startups, they are getting money from investors so the burn rate is high, they do need to be profitable. And for businesses like us, we are independent, we don't have [crosstalk 00:09:54] how do we compete with them? And so there's certainly pressure to-

Eric Feng (Host):

Try to compete.

Terry (Guest):

... To compete on price. So eventually we gave in. We actually tried implementing a price match guarantee. And we did that for a while, and gained some traction. But if you look at the bottom line and you start to realize it doesn't make sense, it is not sustainable. So we had to really make a very tough call, think about different ways, how do we overcome that? Now the big question is, we ask ourselves, how do we get people to buy from us knowing that we may not be the cheapest in the market?

Eric Feng (Host):

Exactly, good question.

Terry (Guest):

I think that's a very difficult question to address. Yeah, so then we look at different areas of the business. If you look at speed, for example, I think naturally, most people, they procrastinate. When it comes to supplies, they don't buy until the last minute.

Eric Feng (Host):

That's right.

Terry (Guest):

And if that is the situation, that's the behavior, speed is very important. It becomes a important value.

Eric Feng (Host):

Exactly.

Terry (Guest):

And because we have healthy margins, we have that ability to hire better people, hire more people, invest in better logistics so that the products get to them faster. So if I dare say, today, we are probably one of the fastest in terms of speed. You [inaudible 00:11:31] checkout, by tomorrow morning, you can get your stuff.

Eric Feng (Host):

Fantastic. So what you're seeing is that instead of trying to compete on price, you were trying to find out how you can compete on value?

Terry (Guest):

On value, definitely.

Eric Feng (Host):

And that if we're going to just play the numbers game, the price game with them, you're going to die because [crosstalk 00:11:47]...

Terry (Guest):

You're going to pay for it.

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah.

Terry (Guest):

The business is going to pay for it.

Eric Feng (Host):

Wow.

Terry (Guest):

And if you can't even keep yourself in the business, what kind of [crosstalk 00:11:54].

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah, and especially because you're bootstrapped which means that you have no [inaudible 00:11:56] backing you up.

Terry (Guest):

Exactly.

Eric Feng (Host):

Every dollar counts.

Terry (Guest):

And we've seen how businesses coming in within six months or 12 months, they phase off very, very fast, and we don't want to be one of them, we are here to stay.

Eric Feng (Host):

Got it. So the question we need to ask ourself is what can we provide as a value to our customers that will make them be willing to pay a premium?

Terry (Guest):

A premium. And value comes in different forms. Like I said, speed is one of them. And the other one is customer experience. So internally we don't call our people customer service, we call them customers success, we call them educators because the [inaudible 00:12:35] for them is to educate people and to solve people's problem. And I love it when people come to us with problems because those are opportunities for us to help them. And believe it or not, every month I give the team a budget to spend to delight these customers. And when they don't spend the money, I get very upset because then we are not helping them.

Eric Feng (Host):

Exactly. [inaudible 00:12:59] proactively doing it.

Terry (Guest):

Exactly. Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

I see. Okay. Got it. So I guess a solution to the price war is to don't compete on price, but to find out where your uniqueness is and compete on other areas that your customers value.

Terry (Guest):

Yeah. Where we can deliver value to them.

Eric Feng (Host):

I love it.

Terry (Guest):

But [inaudible 00:13:17] above it all is also, I think this is not always being brought up, but through the years, every year when I think about what really defines us as a business, strangely enough, this is what always come up to me, dependability. I think as a business, as a co-worker, as a... I mean, even in your personal life, as a son, as a child, as a husband, you want to be a dependable person.

Eric Feng (Host):

So true.

Terry (Guest):

And if you ask yourself, today, we are in a very digital world, when we order...

Eric Feng (Host):

[crosstalk 00:13:53].

Terry (Guest):

Yeah. Or when you maybe take a ride sharing service, how often does it give you problems? And I think we are living in a world where everything is so fast, but a lots of business may not be as dependable as we want it to be.

Eric Feng (Host):

Very true.

Terry (Guest):

And I think because we focus so much on dependability, customers value that.

Eric Feng (Host):

But would you say that that is something that you are able to only communicate over time? In your first two years, do you already knew that you want to be a dependable business so that people would be willing to spend more money on you?

Terry (Guest):

That's a very good question. I'm a very real person so a lot of values, a lot of the [inaudible 00:14:42] of doing certain things, the [inaudible 00:14:43] of thinking certain things, I carry it from my personal life to the business. And I think maybe unknowingly I've always been advocating about being dependable, but I just didn't get to defining that as our value, as our core value. And it's just very interesting that every year when I run a workshop with the team, I always try to find something, a gap [inaudible 00:15:09]. And this always comes up, and unknowingly, this has becomes our real core value.

Eric Feng (Host):

And when you say this thing, "Oh, it comes up." Is that as in they always tell you that one thing that distinguish you from other brands is that you're very dependable.

Terry (Guest):

Dependable, reliable, and people can trust us.

Eric Feng (Host):

And it's a word that your customers sit about you?

Terry (Guest):

Reviews after reviews. People always use the word, "This is one place we can trust. This is one place we can depend on them to deliver to us accurately, and in a very short speed." And it's been consistent over the years. And even down to the people we hire, they're all the same, they are dependable. I can depend on them to run certain things, and I think that comes through when we service customers, they feel the magic.

Eric Feng (Host):

Terry, at the core of a brand is self-awareness, it's about... A lot of us where we try to build our brand, we tend to look outwards. We look at our competition and say, "Oh, they are doing this. Okay, we need to do it better." But what we fail to understand is, it's very hard to do actually measure better because it's subjective. How am I going to say that you're better than me.

Eric Feng (Host):

There's no benchmark, but people are wired to spot differences. And so, if I can be different, then I stand out, and what I'm learning from you, Terry, is that the way to be different so that people are willing to pay the premium on us is by digging deep into what makes us stand out from everybody else. And sometimes we might not know the answers, but our customers do, and let our customers be the one to tell us why they choose us.

Terry (Guest):

Exactly.

Eric Feng (Host):

And then from there, we will know our uniqueness.

Terry (Guest):

And we have customers coming to us telling me, "Terry, your company, your brand has a soul. And I can't pinpoint exactly what it is, but you guys are different." We have job seekers coming to me and say, "Terry, I wonder what for you guys because I believe in what you guys are doing." We share the same belief.

Eric Feng (Host):

And that goes back down to the name, Good Dog People. That when you first started off, you didn't start off with just naming it based on a category, which is so transactional, but you name it based on a vision, which is inspirational.

Terry (Guest):

Yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh God. Okay. So by the way, we have opened our [inaudible 00:17:20] but it came in very nicely because the question that I asked you at the beginning was, what's the big struggle you faced? Pricing was a problem, and you fell into trying to compete on price as well. But in the long run, it's going to kill your business. So what you did instead was to dig deep into what's your difference, what's your value? And you sell on your value rather than selling on your price.

Terry (Guest):

Yep, exactly.

Eric Feng (Host):

I love it. Now, then that was your early on years, then after that, because you've been around for about four plus years so that was the first part...

Terry (Guest):

Coming to four years.

Eric Feng (Host):

Coming to four years. So the first part of your business was on price. What is the other struggle that you're facing at a later part of your business?

Terry (Guest):

So after we hit the one mil mark, I think there was also a very compelling reason to scale, to see the opportunity, and you just want to ride on the wave, right? And when you scale, when I scale, I've... Well, almost learning through the journey, and I've never thought that when you scale it is expensive. And what I mean by that is a lot of your investment, your profit goes back into building infrastructures, automation, hiring people, just to keep the lights on. And at one point you risk scaling your costs more than your revenue. And if you're not sensitive enough, if you're not even more conscious about the numbers, you realize, "Oh, dear, my cashflow is very weak." And you can be profitable, but if your cashflow is poor, you can afford a business. And I think that was a struggle that we went through. How do we make sure there's a balance? Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

So beautiful. There's a saying that revenue is sanity. Profitability is... I can remember was that, then cashflow is necessity.

Terry (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

Damn, if only I know the whole quote.

Terry (Guest):

Cashflow is king.

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah, cashflow is king.

Terry (Guest):

Everything's about the cash flow.

Eric Feng (Host):

Okay. And so how do you solve that problem then when you realize that you have to keep the lights on, you have to grow the business, [inaudible 00:19:29] you very carefully used the word scale, which I love, by the way, a plug into our previous interview, right before yours was Alvin Poh, sold off his tech company for $30 million. And I asked him that question, I said, "What's the difference between growing a business and scaling a business?" And he said to me that growing a business is where your revenue grows, increase, but so does your expenses, so you're always making sure that your expense don't cross the line. But scale is different, scale is when your revenue grows, but your expense is kept fixed.

Terry (Guest):

Totally.

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah. So you reminded me that we need to be very careful about managing the two lines.

Terry (Guest):

Yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

So in your case, how do you manage it? How do you make sure that the expense line doesn't cross the revenue line?

Terry (Guest):

It's always about a 80/20. I think there's always a lot of tempting moments to believe that if I invest in something it's going to bring me ROI. And sometimes you just like the idea of doing something or investing in something, but it may not necessarily bring you the revenue or the ROI. So today, when I try to decide, how should I put my money into different baskets, there's always one single criteria, does it bring any big impact? Does it bring any impact to the revenue? And when I say impact, I'm talking about visible impact, at least a 10 or 20% growth. If it's not then don't play small, don't waste your money into little-

Eric Feng (Host):

The little thing.

Terry (Guest):

... Small things and you don't see the growth anywhere at all. So it's always about the impact. Even when the team comes to me and say, "Terry, maybe we should subscribe to this. Maybe we should upgrade [inaudible 00:21:18] softwares." But the same question comes up, does it bring any impact to the revenue? If it doesn't...

Eric Feng (Host):

And if it does, how much impact?

Terry (Guest):

How much, how many percentage points? And if it doesn't go beyond 10 or 20, single digit, don't even think about that.

Eric Feng (Host):

And when you say impact do you just mean directly just revenue?

Terry (Guest):

Revenue.

Eric Feng (Host):

Got it.

Terry (Guest):

Exactly.

Eric Feng (Host):

So every dollar counts.

Terry (Guest):

[inaudible 00:21:39].

Eric Feng (Host):

Top line.

Terry (Guest):

Top line.

Eric Feng (Host):

Got it. So the next time around when we, as a business owner, we are faced with decisions to upgrade logistics, hire people-

Terry (Guest):

Softwares.

Eric Feng (Host):

... Invest in software, marketing and advertising-

Terry (Guest):

[crosstalk 00:21:50].

Eric Feng (Host):

... You always need to think of which one gives us the biggest revenue impact.

Terry (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

I mean, as an entrepreneur myself, I feel you, I feel [inaudible 00:22:00] I'm always in a dilemma, there's this FOMO, I want it all. Or do you feel that way sometimes?

Terry (Guest):

All the time.

Eric Feng (Host):

You wish you have all the money in the world to buy everything. Playing a computer game, sometimes I'll play a cheat code because when I play StarCraft I will have a cheat code and that cheat code allows me to have infinite money.

Terry (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

A game that I love to play. I don't know if you... I don't think you have any time to play, this is game called Dota.

Terry (Guest):

Oh, Dota I know.

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh, you know Dota? [inaudible 00:22:22] I can play that cheat code called miners gold, and I can put whatever gold I want, 50,000. I buy all kinds of weapons. Sometimes I really wish my business is like that where I can just put a cheat-

Terry (Guest):

I wish too.

Eric Feng (Host):

... Code. So I get it now, so, as a CEO, we have to make the tough call.

Terry (Guest):

Yeah. And it doesn't help that day to day you get a lot of people selling your services, they want to show you how good the softwares are, what kind of value they can bring to the company. But I think it's also good to be open-minded, meet these people. I mean, I spend time with these people so that I'm also informed what the landscape is right now, and potentially what value I can extract from this [inaudible 00:22:59]. Because if I'm not ready today, maybe I'm really-

Eric Feng (Host):

[crosstalk 00:23:02].

Terry (Guest):

... One year later on. Yeah. So I think it's just about really getting informed, but not making impulsive decisions, and not liking the idea of making certain decisions.

Eric Feng (Host):

I love it. Thank you so much. There's being very cautious, and yet very strategic-

Terry (Guest):

[crosstalk 00:23:23].

Eric Feng (Host):

... And prudent.

Terry (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

Now, there are people listening to us right now that are probably wanting to set up a e-commerce store because the narrative right now is that everything is online. This whole COVID-19 has just forced commerce to be done online.

Terry (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

We're buying stuff online these days. Everything, furniture, food, online content. So what do you think are some of the metrics that we need to pay very careful attention on to build a thriving e-commerce store?

Terry (Guest):

A lot of them. But also not to be too drowned by too much data. But there are a few important ones that we look all the time, every day. Yeah, every day. So one, sales. Let's talk about [inaudible 00:24:10] we have sales metrics, we have channels. So channels would be your websites, your EDM, email, your socials. And of course you have to look at your product, how do they move? How much each skill is wrecking in. So when we look at sales, definitely you have they look at revenue for the week or for the month. AOV, so AOV is average order value, how much are people cutting out on an average? Is it $100, $200? Can you bring it up [inaudible 00:24:45] more during special seasons? Look at conversion rate, sales conversion rates. Look at customer retention rates, which is very important because we spend so much money acquiring new leads, and if we don't keep the retention high, that means you're always spending money to acquire customers.

Eric Feng (Host):

And how do you measure that? How do you measure retention rate in your case?

Terry (Guest):

So retention rate is how many percentage of your customers... So for example, if you have 100 customers in the month of July, how many of these 100 people, let's say 80 people, they are returning customers. So they have-

Eric Feng (Host):

[crosstalk 00:25:27].

Terry (Guest):

... Purchased something from you before in the previous month. And this month they come back and they purchase something from you. And that's also an indication that you are doing maybe your customer experience well, your products are priced very competitively, and in general, they like your brand, they love your brand, and that's why they come back.

Eric Feng (Host):

I love that. Okay, great. So these are the three sales metrics we need to pay attention to.

Terry (Guest):

Oh, definitely.

Eric Feng (Host):

Got it. What about when you talk about channels, what do we need to pay attention to?

Terry (Guest):

So website, you have to know where do they come from, where do they exit, how much time they spend on each page, do they bounce off... Is it a high bounce off rate? You even have to look at what time of the week, or of the day they buy the most.

Eric Feng (Host):

Fun facts, like Monday to Sunday, hopefully we're not revealing any private data, when do we people buy stuff?

Terry (Guest):

Definitely at night between 8:00 or 10:00 PM, after dinner. But if you look at number of... I mean, which day of the week, weekends, so weekend buying is huge. Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

Wow, okay, good to know.

Terry (Guest):

And surprisingly, when you look at mega sales, like Singles Day or Black Friday. Lunchtime. Actually people are buying during lunchtime. So you spot sudden behavior and you know what to do at different seasons of the year. Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

Got it. Okay. Good to know. Lunchtime and weekends. Right. Okay. So we talk about channels so these are things to look out for. What about the last one, which is products?

Terry (Guest):

So products. So internally we call... I mean, we have a lot of brands, a few hundreds of brands. You have to look at, maybe say your top 10 brands, which brands actually move slower, or move faster in the current month. You can look at your categories too. So for example, brand A, if there's [inaudible 00:27:24], there's treats, there's toys, there's whatever, is there any opportunity, do you see any gradual increment in sales over that last six months? And maybe is there an opportunity to invest more money to drive certain demand so that this category could actually-

Eric Feng (Host):

Do well.

Terry (Guest):

... Do well, and do even better. Yeah. So I think supplements, for example, is something that we have been trying to drive the demand. We've seen a gradual increment in terms of spending, and I think there's potential so we've been trying to experiment, run some pilots, trying to upsell, cross sell. And I think the message is also to let people know that if you invest today, prevention is better than cure. You invest today in supplements. You save a lot of money from seeing the [inaudible 00:28:21].

Eric Feng (Host):

That's so true. But what I thought was very cool is that, well, to run an e-commerce company, you need to love numbers, you need to [crosstalk 00:28:28]-

Terry (Guest):

Oh, definitely.

Eric Feng (Host):

... Analyze data.

Terry (Guest):

You must [inaudible 00:28:31] data, spot certain-

Eric Feng (Host):

Trends, like you said.

Terry (Guest):

... Trends, be analytical so that you can extract insights from it. And then that's where opportunity is. And if you just growing organically, I think you are not doing the right way.

Eric Feng (Host):

Got it. So when you look at the numbers, we should look at spikes, sudden sales of certain brands of products, or we look for gradual upward trends.

Terry (Guest):

Or sudden dip because that also highlight you about-

Eric Feng (Host):

It's a red flag.

Terry (Guest):

... Certain problems. Yeah. Is a red flag. So there was one time we saw a sudden dip over a weekend and we realized, "Oh, dear, actually, the website is down."

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh my God, and it's on the weekend where most people are buying.

Terry (Guest):

Yes. And why the website was down because on Friday we were doing some implementation and the take away is, never do implementation on a Friday because weekend is our peak season.

Eric Feng (Host):

You should do it on a Monday or a Tuesday.

Terry (Guest):

Exactly. And second, always have monitoring alerts so that when your website is down, you get alerted real time, and not when you look at the data because by then, it's already too late.

Eric Feng (Host):

You know, Terry, I mean, that leads to a question that we didn't plan for, which is, as an entrepreneur, you are very sensitive to revenue top line, you need to make sure that revenue is high, consistent, growing. You need to manage expenses. How do you feel emotionally when things screw up in your business? Things like that, like you need money, you need the revenue, and then the website crashed.Or you need your guys to be on time to deliver something, and they screw up. There will always be cock-ups, right?

Terry (Guest):

All the time. Everyday. Like you say, you got to fire fight.

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah, there's a lot of fire fighting.

Terry (Guest):

Yeah, a lot of [crosstalk 00:30:14].

Eric Feng (Host):

How do you maintain your mental wellness? How do you deal with it? How do you take care of yourself emotionally?

Terry (Guest):

It was very draining, to be honest. The first, I think, two years, whenever you think that you've solved certain problems, but new problems keeps us [inaudible 00:30:33]. Well, I guess...

Eric Feng (Host):

It's like whack-a-mole, [crosstalk 00:30:38]-

Terry (Guest):

Yeah, I know.

Eric Feng (Host):

... You hit one and the other one pop up, you hit the other one, the other two pop up. Yeah.

Terry (Guest):

I think it's important to have a support system. And I mean, I think the truth is, whether is it intentionally or unknowingly, you might have really developed a support system in many touchpoints of your life. I think even in the workplace, if you have one or two people whom you can speak to. In the current team I have people coming up to me and say, "Terry, you look visibly stressed today. If you want to talk, I'm here to listen."

Eric Feng (Host):

Wow,

Terry (Guest):

And I really appreciate it so much, and I'm thankful that I have people like them in the team. When I get home I can talk to my wife [inaudible 00:31:23] of course sometimes there are moments where you don't even want to talk about anything. So I think, for me, there's always a reason why I choose to live very close to nature. And I think we all would agree, nature heals, it restores. And every time I feel very drained out, I just [inaudible 00:31:43] and go for a quick run or a quick hike. And it calms me down. So every morning I have a routine, I don't do meditation or yoga-

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah, [crosstalk 00:31:53].

Terry (Guest):

... I just water my plants. I just water my plants-

Eric Feng (Host):

Water plants.

Terry (Guest):

... And the act of watering, to me, is actually an act of [inaudible 00:32:03], taking care of something. And it give me a lot of peace.

Eric Feng (Host):

Peace. Right now immediately I think about some people saying, "But I have no plants." Don't worry, your neighbors do, water their plants.

Terry (Guest):

Well, I don't think they'd mind.

Eric Feng (Host):

[inaudible 00:32:18].

Terry (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

I love that. But would you also have a way of reframing problems?

Terry (Guest):

Yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

How do you reframe a problem? Every time a problem pops up, how do you reframe it?

Terry (Guest):

So very good point. I think functionally what I always like to do, I think you also have to sit in habit.

Eric Feng (Host):

Okay.

Terry (Guest):

I write on a piece of paper. So when I lot problems in my mind, I often get very clouded, and this is hazy and I can really crystallize what exactly the problems are and what the solution is. So when I write down, I try to itemize them, I break down as granular as I can. And for the last, I would say 20 years, there's always a question that I go to when I face a problem, is it a life or death matter? And if it's not a life or death matter, why am I worrying so much? And if it's a problem I can solve, if it's a problem I can't solve, is it a life or death matter? If it's not a life or death matter, leave it, it's fine. Face the consequences and you will get through one day.

Eric Feng (Host):

Even if it means losing revenue or even it means you-

Terry (Guest):

It's okay.

Eric Feng (Host):

... Anger a customer.

Terry (Guest):

It's okay because it will get better. You'll always be in a better position tomorrow or the next day. And I know that is true because it happened so many times and I've cultivated a habit of not over worrying or over thinking certain things, face the consequence, or fix the problem.

Eric Feng (Host):

I love that. Thank you so much. Especially your brand value is about dependability [crosstalk 00:33:55].

Terry (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

And we are dealing with customers all the time. And we know how competitive business is. It's like, I always believe that in sales, you cannot be second place. Your parents, "It's okay to be second place, second place, you got a trophy." But in the business world, nobody rewards the second place person because you either get a sale or you don't. Only the first place guy gets a sale. So I get very caught up whenever I lose a business to someone else, because in my mind, I feel I've lost. Or another way is I spent a lot of time trying to get a deal, I got the deal, but for some reason we screwed up and we angered a customer, or in the back of my mind I'm worried that we will never get a customer back again. People can be so unforgiving. You screw up once, that's it, nobody's going to give you a chance. How do you deal with all those consequences?

Terry (Guest):

I always faced this challenge when I first started. I get a lot of anxiety attacks. Over the weekends, when I open up my socials, I look at, "Oh, which competitor is doing this promotion at a very specific price, which I can match." And I get very upset about it. And I get anxious about this. And my whole weekend is ruined because then I'm always thinking, "How do I develop better promotions just to beat them?" But I realized it's also taking a toll on my mental health, I'm always in this zone where I'm always frustrated and annoyed.

Terry (Guest):

Well, I guess what I've tried to change [inaudible 00:35:30] mindset is trying to look at the bigger picture when how big the market is, and when you know where your values are, how good your service is, you don't have to worry about losing that lead, or that sale, or that product. Because for example, if I focus on servicing my customers well, and if my pipeline is so good, so strong, what is losing one customer? Not that I don't value that customer, but the market will take care for me.

Eric Feng (Host):

Will take care of you.

Terry (Guest):

Will take of me because the market is big enough. And I think that's about looking at it with a bigger view.

Eric Feng (Host):

Abundance mindset, I love that.

Terry (Guest):

Yeah. And today I'm also asking myself, "What am I doing to drive the market?" Not just for myself, but also for my competitors so that every one of us have a piece of the cake.

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh my [crosstalk 00:36:31].

Terry (Guest):

And I don't have to always worry that... Losing out.

Eric Feng (Host):

So it's not about competing, but finding ways to collaborate even, or finding ways to create demand?

Terry (Guest):

I wouldn't say collaborate, but to drive the demand, to drive the market.

Eric Feng (Host):

To drive the demand so that everybody wins.

Terry (Guest):

Exactly. Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

Okay. So let's recap what you just said because you said a lot of very cool nuggets. So number one is see that the market is big.

Terry (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

It's a abundance mindset.

Terry (Guest):

And if the market is not big, then you are in the wrong business.

Eric Feng (Host):

Okay, good. Right. So that's a great one. So you might lose one today, but see it as temporary.

Terry (Guest):

Yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

And then number two is, go back to always your core competencies because [inaudible 00:37:09] trying to win everybody, win at all battles, but you need to understand where can you always win? There's a saying that if competition is healthy, domination is immunity.

Terry (Guest):

Nice.

Eric Feng (Host):

So it's not about competing, about dominating in areas where you are the strongest. So I love that. I love about going back again to what are my core competencies. And then the third part I've learned from you is that problems will always come, but will come from point of view that if it's solvable, we'll solve it, we'll get better anyway.

Terry (Guest):

We will. Definitely.

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah. Wow. So I think it's the whole idea of perfection. We're trying to be perfect here, but there's no such thing as a perfect business, there's just a business that progress.

Terry (Guest):

What I learned about perfection over the years is I always... I think perfection is a disguise for the fear of failure.

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh my God.

Terry (Guest):

I always think I want to be perfect, but when I dig deeper, I ask myself, "Is it really because I want things to be perfect?" I think because I'm so scared of failing I deceive myself into a state where I think I'm doing just a little bit more, it will be good enough, but that's not true. In fact, I think excellence is something that I advocate a lot in a team. Excellence is the ability to take that risk knowing that if you don't succeed, you have that tenacity, that grit to see through it. And I think that's the difference between excellence and perfection-

Eric Feng (Host):

Perfection.

Terry (Guest):

... And we should pursue excellence, not perfection.

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh my God. Because there's no such thing as perfection.

Terry (Guest):

Perfection.

Eric Feng (Host):

It's an illusion.

Terry (Guest):

Illusion.

Eric Feng (Host):

It's a deception.

Terry (Guest):

Deception.

Eric Feng (Host):

That is [inaudible 00:38:47] very nicely, but it's actually just a fear of failure.

Terry (Guest):

It is.

Eric Feng (Host):

But if I put myself in a mindset of excellence, I'm actually implying that I will make mistakes, but I'm going to learn from those mistakes and I'll go and get better.

Terry (Guest):

And I'm going to comment to it and give 100% of my ability at that moment

Eric Feng (Host):

At that moment, with whatever skills and resources I have.

Terry (Guest):

Yes.

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh God, Terry, you wise. You should not be called just Good Dog People, Wise Dog People. Now, I mean, as we [inaudible 00:39:12] this interview, we've covered a lot of things, we've covered your struggles, we've covered about the importance of understanding your core competencies. We have also talk about how do we deal with stress of being an entrepreneur. I make an observation about Good Dog People, I realized that a lot of high profile individuals are very, very supportive of your brand. And I've also done my research and I know you didn't pay them, it's not like they're influencers and it's not influencer marketing. A case in point would be Daniel Boey. Daniel Boey is the godfather of fashion in Singapore, he is the judge of the Asia Next Top Model. So how do you even manage to attract people like that to be advocates of your business?

Terry (Guest):

Very good question. I think it goes all the way back to when we first started. And the irony is, we are an e-commerce company, and when we launch... When we [inaudible 00:40:10] come into the market, I asked myself, "Do I really want to put my money into advertising in digital channels?" Because it's such a crowded place. So I was trying to think of the box. And I'm very grateful to Daniel, he has lended a lot of support. And there was one day we had lunch together and he comes from a very fashion space, and he always want to put a spotlight on the local labels, the local creatives. And for me, I always want to shine a spotlight on the local street dogs to get people to love, and to embrace the local street dogs.

Terry (Guest):

And it was just over the lunch we thought, well, do we want to come together and do a show together? And I think he loved that idea. I would be able to benefit from his resources and his network as well. Yeah, and I think that's how we put a show together. And I wanted to also rope in the special need artists. So this boy, Sijun, he designed a few dog bandanas for us, and we wore it on the local dogs. And together with local media personalities, we all came together and do a show. And we called it the Good Dogs & People show.

Eric Feng (Host):

Nice.

Terry (Guest):

Very simple, and dogs is [inaudible 00:41:35] Good Dogs. Yeah, so we did a show and it was actually a very powerful moment for me and very emotional because Sijun, he's [inaudible 00:41:45] autistic, and when we decided to put him on the show, we were not sure whether he can walk a dog. So we asked him, "Do you want to give it a try?" And he say, "Yes." And when he was able to walk the dog, care for the dog, guide the dog, you know what [inaudible 00:42:04] told me? I mean, she just said, she thanked me, and she said, "Do you know, I've never, ever imagined Sijun is able to care for a dog, and you gave me a glimpse of hope."

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh my God.

Terry (Guest):

"[inaudible 00:42:20] able to take care of himself one day." And that was a very emotional and touching moment for me.

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah.

Terry (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

[crosstalk 00:42:26] I'm feeling the emotions. Wow. Yeah.

Terry (Guest):

And it also reminds me what I can do though my business to really impower and make an impact to people, to the dogs. And also collectively with people like Daniel Boey. He's a figure with authority and influence. And together we just come together and try to make a impact.

Eric Feng (Host):

From what I learned from you is that if you want to attract powerful people to support you, you need to first have a powerful mission.

Terry (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

That it's not transactional, but inspirational.

Terry (Guest):

It is.

Eric Feng (Host):

And you have one and it's all folded into one, which is Good Dog People.

Terry (Guest):

And the community really started from there. So every year we still meet up, and it is a ripple effect. So Daniel's network would then refer to their contacts, and so would our adopters, and my customers. And I think, that's how we grew from there, and that's how we started building the community.

Eric Feng (Host):

I love it. And also, if you guys are pet lovers, or you're taking care of a dog, so please do check out Good Dog People. What's next for you, man? After Good Dog People, is there going to be something else?

Terry (Guest):

So there is a surprise.

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah, but let's look at this camera then, let's look at this camera. Oh my God!

Terry (Guest):

Curious Cat People. So is a newly launched cat store, Curious Cat People.

Eric Feng (Host):

I was very worried for you for a while because I mean there are a lot of dog lovers, but there are a lot of fierce cat lovers too.

Terry (Guest):

Oh yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

And I was just wondering why you neglected them, but oh, wow, beautiful.

Terry (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

So how did you came up with the name Curious Cat People? You have a knack for coming up with good names.

Terry (Guest):

[inaudible 00:44:08] asked me like, "Why didn't you call it Good Cat People?"

Eric Feng (Host):

Oh yeah. On the same note, why not Good Cat People, or are you trying to imply that cat people are not good?

Terry (Guest):

No, definitely not that.

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah.

Terry (Guest):

We thought hard about the brand, should it be Good Cat People or Curious Cat People? So we did a straw pull, we asked some friends and some potential customers.

Eric Feng (Host):

[inaudible 00:44:30].

Terry (Guest):

And interestingly, it was quite evenly split. Now the camp who vote for Good Cat People, the consistent reason they gave was very functional because you are already... You have a brand in Good Dog People, and you should ride on your brand. And to me, that's a very functional reason.

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah, very logical.

Terry (Guest):

Very logical. But to me, a big brand has to be very emotional. It has to connect emotionally. And those who voted for Curious Cat People, they said, "That's how my cats are, they are just generally very inquisitive and very curious. And I feel a lot for Curious Cat People, more than Good Cat People."

Eric Feng (Host):

Good Cat People.

Terry (Guest):

And so we go with [crosstalk 00:45:11].

Eric Feng (Host):

It felt like you're forcing a dog personality on a cat.

Terry (Guest):

Exactly. Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

Wow.

Terry (Guest):

So that's how we decide, "Well, maybe we should go for Curious Cat People."

Eric Feng (Host):

Yeah, and if you think about it, every brand, it's a personality on its own.

Terry (Guest):

It is.

Eric Feng (Host):

[crosstalk 00:45:22] we don't need Siamese twins.

Terry (Guest):

Oh yeah, definitely.

Eric Feng (Host):

We have a cat person and a dog person and one's curious and one's good.

Terry (Guest):

And very different persona, very different identity.

Eric Feng (Host):

I think so. I have friends who are cat people and they're very different from the dog people.

Terry (Guest):

They are.

Eric Feng (Host):

I, for sure am a dog person. But in fact that would be a pretty cool thing. So if you guys can drop us a note, if you're watching us on YouTube, let us know, are you a dog person or are you a cat person? If you're listening to us on podcast, feel free to tag me and Terry. You'll be able to find his handles on our show notes, go tag him and let him know, let me know, are you a dog person or a cat person? And you do have a cat or dog, put a picture up on social, tag us so that we can take a look.

Terry (Guest):

Yeah.

Eric Feng (Host):

How do we reach out to you? What handles?

Terry (Guest):

So you can reach out to Good Dog People like G-O-O-D, D-O-G, P-E-O-P-L-E, or Curious Cat People. And my personal handle would be Terry Peh, T-E-R-R-Y, P-E-H.

Eric Feng (Host):

Got it. I just got to warn you, don't think that when you go to Terry's Instagram page you'll see cats and dogs, you'll be very surprised. Remember he told you that he loved like plants and we look at our backdrop, it's green, so he has a green [inaudible 00:46:33]. So if you like plants, do check him out as well, Terry. Terry, I just want to thank you for really taking the time to have a chat with us. And I felt like you really brought a lot of soul into today's conversation. And you make me realize that a business is not just about profit, a business has an opportunity to make a huge impact in people's life. So thank you very much. High five.

Terry (Guest):

Thanks Eric. Thanks for having me.

Eric Feng (Host):

Now, so this is Terry from Good Dog People and Curious Cat People. I've learned so much from Terry. I think my biggest takeaway is this that the title of today's interview was How to Build a Million-Dollar Business, E-Commerce Business with a Soul. And my biggest takeaway from him is this, that before we can make a million, we need to first impact a million. So a lot of us, we tend to think about the money, but the money, from what I learned from him, is a fruit that if we come from a angle of wanting to help people, wanting to raise a entire industry, wanting to serve a certain cause, and when that goal becomes so big, you will attract customers to you, you will attract the revenue, but more importantly, you will attract allies in a form of investors and influencers who will come and support that cause to you. Because remember this, a powerful cause attracts powerful people.

Eric Feng (Host):

So if you're going to start your own business, think about this very carefully. All right, don't just come up with a company name, but come up with a company mission because that's what attract powerful people to you. If you loved this interview, we post this... We do these interviews once a week and we post this on YouTube once a week as well. So if you liked this video, you'll love all the other videos out there with my interviews. So remember to hit the subscribe button, switch on notification, like, and let us know, are you a cat person or are you a dog person, or maybe you are a hamster person or what. All right, let us know in the comment section below, I'll see you guys in the next video.