Center Stage: Spotlighting Business Challenges
Center Stage: Spotlighting Business Challenges
140 - Mastering Trust Building and Credibility in Legal Marketing with Michael DeLon
Join us in an enlightening conversation with Michael DeLon, founder of Paperback Expert, as we delve into trust-building and how it transforms prospects into committed clients. We spill the secrets on how to elevate your content game, cutting through the noise, and making your brand the go-to expert, using platforms such as blogging, videos, social media, and emails.
Learn why the pros like Gary Vaynerchuk emphasize the value of having multiple touchpoints with your audience and the unique role this plays in fostering trust and credibility. Finally, we explore the boundless power of podcasting and books in creating that much-needed trust. We discuss the advantages of starting your podcast, the invaluable relationships it can help you forge, and why it's a potent tool for establishing yourself as an industry expert.
Check out how Michael and his team can help your firm at www.paperbackexpert.com and get your Credibility Score to see how credible you currently are at www.credibilitycalculator.com
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Visit www.spotlightinsider.com for additional content to help your firm grow!
This is Center Stage putting your firm in the spotlight by highlighting business owners and other industry experts to help take your firm to the next level. Hey everyone, and welcome to Center Stage. I'm your host, john Henson, in today's episode. A little bit different than what you're probably used to. Today's episode is actually a presentation that I did with a former Center Stage guest, michael DeLon from Paperback Expert. We talked a lot about the importance of authority building, credibility building, why you would do that, and we provide some different ways for you to do that. This episode well, this presentation really kind of a few months old but still a ton of value in there and I really hope you do stick around and check it out. Also, go check out what Michael is doing over at Paperback Expert. He does book publishing. So if you've ever wanted to publish a book for your firm I've published a lot of books for myself. It's a really fun process, at least to me, but they can take a lot of that work off of your plate and really help you have just a really core piece of credibility and authority in your practice area. So go over to PaperbackExpertcom and check out all of the things that they will be doing. And, yeah, I wanted to put this episode out there because I really thought there was a ton of good information. Also, I'm out on paternity right now, so I thought this would be a great place to throw that in, but we'll be back next week with another live episode. Thanks so much.
Speaker 1:We're talking about the importance of credibility in your marketing. We were talking, I think, a little bit off air maybe, like right when we first jumped on, just about how important credibility is becoming. I think we're kind of seeing a shift now. Maybe 10 years ago it was really just all about search rankings and just how many keywords can you stuff in your website and overall, and just rankings this and rankings that. Now we're kind of seeing more of a shift towards quality content. But you can't have quality content if people don't trust you, and those are the kind of people that want to work with you. It's the whole no-like-and-trust sort of thing that we've been hearing for years.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, and it's taking that really to the next level, I think, because, as I tell people no-like-and-trust we all know that I'm really tired of that phrase, we all get it. I think credibility, honestly it takes it to the next level down and I'll talk about that a little bit later. But I term credibility as really the level of confidence that somebody has in you. I mean no-like-and-trust you, am I really confident and do I have that connection with you? That's how I seek credibility really making a difference in business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, yeah. So, before we jump in on that, for those of you who don't know who I am, I'm John Henson. I'm the editorial director here at Spotlight Branding, which means I just sit around all day, I write blogs, I do podcasts, I do things like this, and I get to just make all kinds of content, because that's what we do here at Spotlight Branding. We work with lawyers, financial pros, providing content marketing services. So your blogs, videos, social media, emails, all that kind of good stuff and with the goal of helping you increase referrals but also making you look like the credible expert.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and we'll talk later about that and how you help people nurture leads, because that is such an important part that a lot of business owners miss, so definitely want to come back to that. I'm Michael DeLon. I'm president and founder of Paperback Expert. We help business owners create a book without writing a word, to establish your credibility in the eyes of your audience, and then we teach you how to use that credibility and that authority positioning to convert prospects into clients and clients into referrals to grow your business.
Speaker 2:So John and I have connected. We've both been on each other's podcasts. Our companies do a lot together and we want to do more, and this was just this is something we decided to do to say how do we build a dialogue, how do we share some information that's really practical, helpful. So our hope is that you'll leave today with something you can actually apply and we definitely want to answer your questions. So in the chat, just if you've got a question, put the letter Q with a dash and then type out your question at the end. We're going to go through that. We're going to answer your questions. We're here to help. So we're going to let John kick this whole thing off, talking about credibility and why it's important and how.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So you know, we kind of touched on it at the start. You know, people were in an era right now where people want to work with the expert. You know, like I use this analogy a lot, like, if you've got to go get heart surgery, you're not going to just go to some doctor who's a general practitioner, right, you're going to do your research, you're going to seek out the best heart surgeon, the heart specialist that you can find, and so you know why, why, why is that important? How are you going to? How are you? First of all, how are you, as in this case, as a heart specialist? And in your case you know, whatever you're doing, you're a business lawyer, you're a CPA, a financial advisor, family law attorney, whatever it is how do you then communicate that to your audience that, hey, I'm the specialist that you should be working with?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And there's so many ways to do it, because one of the things about credibility and about marketing is we've got to cut through the clutter is what I tell people. There's just so much noise out there and how is somebody going to choose an attorney? Let's say, let's just camp there. So we've worked with a lot of personal injury attorneys and that's a really crowded market, very competitive, and if I asked you, john, I won't put you on the spot. But if I asked you, what's a typical billboard for a personal injury attorney? Look like or say, right, well, you know, right, I just want $80 million with and that's what they all say and that's okay. But I don't really think that's the message that a lot of people want. And so we worked with one and I'm going to give some examples through this whole thing because I think the examples really help it. So I've got a client down in Florida, very competitive market personal injury attorney. He's a small guy against two big gorillas. Okay, these guys are spending. The other guys are spending like a half a million a month in marketing and he's like I don't have that.
Speaker 2:We got his story and this plays into credibility. We got his story. He was a baseball player going into college. He was a pitcher through his arm out in like his third year, ruined his pro career, got rehab, got surgery, went through all of that. Came out of college, ended up becoming a personal injury attorney. Now he helps people who you know. Life throws them a curveball, they get hit and when we found this story we said no, wait a minute, william, let's tell your story. I said have you ever told anybody that that whole baseball thing he's like? No, we're going to.
Speaker 2:So we created this brand for him and created his book is called when Life Throws you a Curveball what to do after you've been in a serious accident, by William Franke, a baseball player turned attorney. We did that on purpose because it's a way for him to compete against the big guys who are saying we just want an $18 million case. You know what I care, but I don't care. What I want to know is can you relate to me? And he has been through the process that his clients are going through? Because when you get hit by a big truck or a dog bites you, you slip and fall. Life just threw you a curveball and now you've got to get rehab. You've got to go through. He's been there and when he connects that at the heart level, people connect with him and they trust him because he's got credibility in their eyes, because he's been there. That's what I'm talking about when I talk credibility. It's your story and how do you connect that? Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and to me, I think there's two aspects of it. One is certainly that that story side of it, you know you want to, even if it's subconsciously, you want to make that emotional connection with people. Yeah, yeah, and I think you know especially the legal industry, for for many years, has been very focused on look at the things that I've done, look at how great I am, look at the results that I've gotten. And we're in a place right now, I think, where people care more about what you can do for them today more than what you've done for other people in the past. Yes, now I know what you're now.
Speaker 1:That obviously raises a question. It's like well, how, how do I convince people that I'm the person they should work with if I can't lean on that past experience? It's all about how you present that you know, so that that kind of lends to the other side of it and all of the credibility and all of that. You know you have a book like that, yep, and that book is full of content, full of examples and ways to demonstrate the knowledge that you have. Yes, and so, in order to make that connection with people, other ways you can do it are through, you know consistent blog articles or videos. You know videos really, really big right now, especially if you're doing a lot on social media Instagram, tiktok, facebook, linkedin, all that kind of stuff where you're just demonstrating that you know how to navigate the wide variety of issues that people deal with in your industry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and in a great way. I mean, the thing I obviously love about creating a block is now with if William smart, right which is, or somebody's working with you, you have seven or eight or nine chapters that then you could take each one of those, you could do a video of it. You could take that video, spin off the audio. Now you've got a podcast, take the spin off and you use that over and over because it's really evergreen content and I know you're the way you all do marketing and blogs and everything. It just fits in there. But every time you do one of those, you're saying you know what in chapter three of my book, and it just plants the seed that you're an expert, because in our culture experts have books, but you don't just say well, I just published a book. Look at me, I'm not. No, it's how do you engage your audience and give them that, that information? And I know you guys are great at that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you talk, you talk about the content multiplication aspect of it. Yeah, and that's it. And that's a great, great example that you gave where you can take one piece of what we call pillar content. It's just this one giant thing. Whether it's a book, if you don't have a book yet you can even do even a short, like two minute, video of you answering a common question what you know? What sorts of things keep your audience up at night? What are they worried about the most? You take a two minute video, just pull out your phone, answer the question. All right, that's a piece of pillar content. You can rip the audio from it, like you said. Now you can make a little mini podcast episode. You can transcribe that audio, you can turn that into a blog post. You share that multiple times across social media and that's important because you know there's no guarantee that everyone who follows you is going to see every single post you make. And that's okay, that's right.
Speaker 1:That's the nature of the beast, honestly, at this point, with with all of the content going around. But it makes your job easier. You do not have to spend hours upon hours upon hours making unique content for all of these different platforms. You can take one piece, split it up a bunch of different ways and throw it out there, and so that two minute video you can get two weeks or a month's worth of content out of it. Yeah, just by spreading it out, you know, chipping it down and and reposting and recycling it because, like you said, it's evergreen, it's going to retain its value and the information isn't going to be outdated, right, six, eight, 12 months down the road.
Speaker 2:That's right, yeah, and I've seen a few attorneys and financial advisors do a really good good job here is they'll do a bunch of those little videos, right, and they'll do everything you talked about. But then they also go to their webpage and they have like a video tab on their webpage. Sometimes it's on front page and they have all of you know they might have 12 different videos, and the reason that's been really effective is, as you do email marketing or something. Now you can always refer to any of those and say, hey, check, remember, I'm talking today about this, check out this short video I did on it. Click back to your website, click back. Yeah, it's really, really a way just to keep people going back and saying, wow, you always, you always have something new to say. And oh, you're not always trying to sell me or get me to opt in. No, I've.
Speaker 2:I tell people, I mean that, yeah, there's a time for somebody to opt into my list, yeah, but it's usually after I've built some relationship and I've given some things to them for free, because I mean, I don't, we've been bait and switched so many times. We're just so leery of a new thing, right, and I mean, in our business. I tell my clients, once you get your book published, give it away for free, mail it to the, to the people. And they're like, I'm like, I'm not free plus shipping thing. I'm like, yeah, that's out there, don't go there. In my opinion, there is, there is a place for that, but it's not for you. You want to mail your book out because, dude, when I get a book in the mail and signed by the author, that's credible, yeah. So there's just so many little things and I think business owners see the shiny object, they see the guy doing that, and I think business owners see the back end of that free plus shipping thing, right, right, so, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so and I want to I want to take a step back here for a second because, like you know why, why are we talking about? Why is this so important? A few weeks ago, our owner actually got a chance to talk to Gary Vaynerchuk for a few minutes and if any of you are not familiar with Gary, he's like the one of the like biggest Uber social media influencers out there in the world. Like, once you like start following him, you can't get away from him. He's like literally everywhere.
Speaker 1:And you know we talked about, you know, content marketing in general and we kind of stumbled upon this really enlightening moment where a lot of people, especially in the legal industry, financial industry, a lot of firms, focus their marketing on going out and trying to find people, cold leads, trying to build their audience and doing all of that, and Gary called it hunting. You're going out and hunting, and whether it's because you don't, whether that's the only kind of way you think about marketing, or you literally just like the thrill of the hunt, you like that chase of going after people and building your list. There's another aspect of that, that of marketing, that people miss and it's that. It's what Gary called farming, it's that nurturing. You go out, you spend a bunch of money to generate a bunch of cold leads and then a big mistake that a lot of firms make is that once that lead gets in their pipeline, nothing happens or very few things happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you talked about. You know. You talked about how people are really leery and all of that. I mean there's a bunch of studies out there. I've seen anywhere from like you've got to make somewhere between like six and 18 touch points before people really start to feel comfortable interacting with your business. And that's where I see a lot of firms failing is because they're spending so much money. And, by the way, there's other studies that say it's like five times more expensive to generate cold leads than it is to sell to your existing list. But so many firms spend all of their marketing on generating those cold leads that their existing audience is just kind of left to kind of navigate their way on their own, and especially in this day and age, that's not what you want to be doing.
Speaker 2:At all. No, I call that the. Every business I talk to has a dormant database. Yeah, leads they've gotten, but it dude. If you're not buying today, I'm going after the next guy. And the problem is I call it the 3% roller. There's probably 3% or less of people who are in the market today right To buy whatever you're selling. Most people are still researching. They're trying to get a feel for you, right? So, yes, there are some people ready to buy today.
Speaker 2:You should always have a call to action and you should always have scheduled a call, but I don't think that should be the primary thing on your website. I think you should be giving information and saying you know what this is a journey oh, here's another place I see business. Or so, when you opt in, tell your prospect kind of what the journey is going to be about. Right, here's what you're going to experience. We're going to have some videos for you. We're going to have this. You can always reach out to us and schedule a call, but we want to be here when you're ready. And what I found one of the principles I really try to live by is I want to win the heart of my prospect and I want to be there consistently, so that when they are ready, I'm the first one they think of and the one they feel the best about. They're going to choose me more times than not. That takes patience, but it's the right way to market.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and talk about all kinds of data, especially like if you're in an industry that thrives on referrals which legal industry, finance industry, for sure, really most professional services. I think I reference this study a lot and I promise I'm going somewhere with this. Texas Tech a few years ago did a study said like 80% of your audience is willing to refer business to you, but only 30% actually do. Now that means regardless of your current standing, because I know I've talked to a lot of law firm owners that say, well, 100% of my business comes from referrals, I don't need marketing. I mean, that may be true, the 100% part, but you still have the capacity to double at least the amount of referrals that you're getting and you're still not maxing out. So why does that happen?
Speaker 1:For the reasons that we just talked about is you get all of these people. They're dormant now and you're not staying in touch, and so if someone ends up going to another firm, it's not because they charge less or they have more experience. They just did a better job of staying in touch than you did Absolutely. And so anytime you get a lead in your system, there should be a marketing ecosystem in place that makes a lot of touch points, that nurtures them along the way, that eventually warms them up and eventually gets them to convert. And maybe and one of the things that I think a lot of people don't think about is maybe they say no. Maybe they say no, you're not the right fit for me. Or maybe, no, not right now. But that doesn't mean they're lost for good. That's right. You don't know who they know, and if you keep them in your system, you can tap into other networks along the way, and so they can still become a source of business for you, even if you're not the right fit for them in that moment.
Speaker 2:That's right and it's so important because even business owners change. So we run coaching programs as well. I've got a guy in my coaching program who did a pre-need funeral planning with funeral homes and, as he did that for a number of years, built deep relationships of trust with people. Well, now he's taking that and he's adding to it some financial planning components for retail. He's like it's just a natural component. But how do I get my audience, who knows me as a funeral planner guy, to understand that I can help them here? So that was the struggle he was having. It's really not a big jump, but it's a messaging jump.
Speaker 2:Wow, you've got this built-in data. You probably don't need to do a bunch of out external marketing right now. You need to educate your current database because, you're right, every person you know in your database knows probably 20 people, maybe 25, 50. How do you get them to start talking about you? Well, that's one reason I love books, because it's a lot easier for somebody to hand a book to somebody. But even if you don't have that, it's educating them to say, wow, referrals are huge and everybody's like, well, my business is built on referrals. You just said you could probably double your business. Most people can, but we haven't been taught how to really ask for referrals and we do it in a way that usually puts our clientele in an awkward position and it's not comfortable. So there are ways to do it. So it's fun for them and a referral you know as well as I do A referral is probably your easiest sale because the trust and the credibility is coming from a third party who says, ok, wow, john, I heard from somebody, you're the guy and can you help me that deal.
Speaker 2:Let's focus on that. But that's back in right. That's not new leads, which is the myth that I always share, because I need more leads, do you really? Or how are you nurturing the leads you have and I know it's spotlight, brandon, you guys do a phenomenal job of that. Nurture that long tail to stay in front. Top of mind awareness let's talk about that a bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, and it's you know. We talked about the content multiplication side of it. I gave the video example. It's that easy, like you don't have to do a whole lot. You know, I've seen, you know some of our, you know our clients. All they do is a blog and a newsletter and that's a month. Just one blog a month, one email newsletter a month. That blog is part of the email newsletter. It's all part of the bigger strategy and every time they send that email newsletter out, they get multiple referrals, multiple requests for business One of the things they hear a lot.
Speaker 1:They'll send an email out. Maybe they're blog, you know, maybe they're an estate planning lawyer, maybe they helped someone draft up their last will and testament, and they'll send a blog out talking about a specific kind of trust that they often help people with. They will get emails back saying, wow, I didn't know you did that, which is, on one hand, that's a scary thing for a business owner to hear, right, but this is the way you reduce that from happening is you're communicating the way, the different ways that you can help people and how you are able to do it. And so you know, even just that alone is a huge step and I mean I highly recommend you don't even have to hire SpotLibrating. You can do this yourself or hire another company to do it.
Speaker 1:But I think every single law firm, every single financial firm, should be doing an email newsletter every single month and in that newsletter you should have at least one article addressing a common pain point with your audience, because that is a huge way. That is one of the biggest drivers of referrals and repeat business. Right, and everyone, every single person on your list should be getting it right your family, your friends, people who are in your industry, current clients, past clients, leads everybody should be getting at least that?
Speaker 2:Yep, absolutely, and I can see it and doing that it's really not hard, right, you templatize it. I've got one section here that says you know what's new, or pain points or something, and you just fill in the blank and pretty soon you've got all this content that goes out. It's in your newsletter every month. Guess what? Now you've got emails, you've got blogs, you've got everything right there. But here's the deal business owners are busy and most of them are not educated in marketing. Right, and that's you and I.
Speaker 2:We talk with business owners all day, every day. They're experts at what they do and that's why I love Spotlight, brandy, because you can take an attorney or financial advisor and say, okay, where are you wanting to go? Got it, we can help you. We'll do all the kind of the backing, we'll teach you. You're still gonna create some of the content and things, because that's just the best way to do it, but we're gonna take care of a lot of it and we're gonna have you mentioned a word earlier that I love is strategy. Yeah, you're not chasing shiny objects all the time, and that's really where business owners waste time, effort, money, energy. They get frustrated because all those things many of them just don't work like they're promised, and that's why, when you take a long-term approach to it, like you guys do and like we do, is it just works better over time? Yeah, and it's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I apologize. There's a guy who decided to start as leaf blower right outside my window because he found out I was doing a webinar. So like if that's coming through on the audio, I apologize.
Speaker 1:I don't know Good this microphone is doing a job, but yeah, and so there are small things like that you can do, and it doesn't all have to be digital. I know you do a couple of things with the people that you interact with and I want you to talk about a couple of those things, because I think you have a couple of really good ideas with just some of the things that you do to just create some nice warm, fuzzy feelings and even just to say thank you, and there's not even like a blatant referral ask in these things, it's just, hey, thanks for whatever thing that you did.
Speaker 2:Yep, that's great. So I'm big on systems and anybody who works with me or we deliver systems and everything I teach we do in our business. Okay, one of our systems is a thank you system, john, I think most people don't say thank you enough, so I've built a four step system. So when I do a podcast with somebody, when I have a prospect, whatever it is, I thank you. On Zoom, we hang up. I go to Loom L-O-O-M, which is a little video thing. There are lots of them out, but I use Loom and I record a short. Loom says John, thanks so much for the time we had to get on. I'm really excited about our next conversation. Hope you have a great day. Thanks, boom, and I emailed that to you. How many video emails do you get a day? So that's, it's really personal.
Speaker 2:But then I also created the thank you cards, right, and they're branded with me on the back and you open it up and it's I actually write our hand writer thank you, and I put a stamp on it and I put it in the mail to you. And so after our conversation, you get a thank you through Loom, you get this in the mail and then many times, if you're all like on my podcast. You've gotten this, I think. I send a box to you and you get a box like this in the mailbox, right, your physical mailbox. Do you think you're gonna open that?
Speaker 2:John Say, yeah, absolutely. So you open this and look there's a note inside of it that connects to whatever is in here. And now it's an experience. This is one reason I do this. You dig through here and this one has oh gosh, I don't know. Oh, these are, these are my favorite Chocolate covered espresso beans, because in the note I was writing to espresso my thanks for being on my podcast, right? So I connect the dots, but we've given up the experience. So this is my thank you process. What's the difference, john, between Six Flags and Disney? They're both amusement parks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Disney, attention to detail.
Speaker 2:Attention to detail and the experience that you're going to have, the memories that are being made. People come back from Disney. They're telling everybody that is why you pay $200 or $300 a day to be in Disney right In 68, whatever. So that thank you process is one thing that we've done to really differentiate ourselves and it's probably one of the best marketing things we've ever done, because I get text over the weekend. I get emails from people going hey, thanks for this. My kids and wife love this. Now, in addition to food, we send pens to our authors. We send cutting boards. Now, really, this does not have any of my branding on it, because it's not about me. I'm trying to be a household word in your life and so I've found ways to do that. We also do you mentioned electronic newsletters every month. Those are phenomenal. I'm a big fan of, in addition, print newsletter, whether it's monthly, quarterly, because all right.
Speaker 2:Here's my challenge to most people Walk to your mailbox today, open it up and count how much stuff is in it. If you're like me, there's like two or three pieces of mail is. This is a great time to do direct mail the right way, and when you coordinate direct mail with online and the two connect. I mean you do your email newsletter and you say, hey, check your mailbox in a couple of days, take our newsletter. Somebody says, well, why do I want to do that? Because they just got my email, cause they have friends Hand that off to somebody you might know. There's just so many ways to do simple things like gifting. Yeah, okay, thank you. Nobody does that, nobody. All right, there are companies out there who will write these for you. Those are okay, but I've gotten them. You know what? I know? A computer wrote that they don't write like I do. I write sloppy, I'm sorry. So I created a thank you that we mail. Then, when they become a client, I created a welcome Welcome to our paperback expert family. We want to treat you like family, right? And it's just another touch point that I don't know how many people do that, but my clients tell me they don't get anybody else doing it to them, right, so right. And how much does this cost? Not much, it's the strategy, right, it's.
Speaker 2:How do you be different from everybody else to build that credibility to say I like this guy, I now own your heart, and when I own your heart, I'm going to get your business and that of your friends, neighbors, relative, business associates, church members and club members, it doesn't matter. That's how you build a business longterm. It's not rocket science and it doesn't take tens of thousands of dollars on Facebook or Google ads or anything like that. It's approaching it a different way and really positioning yourself, not as a needy hunter. I have to have the sale today. No, I don't. I'm happy to be here. I'm going to need business, john, in three years as much as I need it today. I'm okay. If this is not the right time for you, I'm okay with that. Let's just have a conversation. People love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's changing that sort of narrative between I'm here in hopes that you give me money to I'm just here, I'm just here, I'm here for whatever you need Totally. And because people don't like to be sold too, they don't like to feel like you're just money hunting and all of that. And so one last thing that I wanted to talk about before we wrap up here. So we've talked about just kind of small things you can do, the touch points that you can make to make sure that everyone's being nurtured and that you're not just bringing in a bunch of people and then ignoring them. But now let's talk about some of the bigger pillar pieces that you can do to leverage your expertise to really stand out. On our side, obviously, we handle the digital side of things. So right now, podcasting is huge.
Speaker 1:Podcasting as a medium, as a consumable sort of item, is really blowing up right now, and the nice thing about it, as compared to maybe, a blog or a video, is that people can consume podcasts while they're doing other things, while they're driving to work, while they are working out at the gym, doing yard work, whatever the case is. And it's also a little bit more long, for I know especially lawyers. You wanna dive deep into everything and cover every single, if then possible scenario that you can. You can't do that on a blog. No one's gonna read that entire blog. A video people might listen to the audio, which, if you're doing that on Video Finders, rip the Audio. There's your podcast episode. But podcasts you can dive deep, you can expound on a topic for 20, 30, 40 minutes at a time and people will consume that.
Speaker 1:And so it's also kind of like a book, where people see a podcast as, oh, that's a big deal. Right, they still see it as akin to having your own talk radio show. Back. Talk radio is still a thing, obviously, with satellite radio, streaming, spotify, all that not as prominent as it was, but it's still that same sort of thing. And so you tell people you have a podcast. You're showing up on Apple podcasts, you're showing up right there next to the Joe Rogans of the world and all of that. That looks like a big deal. It is, and people are gonna stop and listen and so. But then also, like you said, you have the book. So I mean like, why is a book important if you wanna just wrap up on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, a book establishes you in the mind as an expert and again, in our culture, experts have books. Right, you're an expert at what you do, but the problem is you look just like everybody else. You're a coffee bean. As I say, you pour out coffee beans. They all look the same and smell the same. If you look like and sound like all your competitors, you're giving me no reason to choose you. But when you have a book, so here's a financial advisor.
Speaker 2:We did a book, for her background was gambling. I mean her parents back down when she grew up. They'd fly to Vegas and win lots of money and then everything was great. Fly to Vegas A month later. They'd lose a bunch of money. Well, she's a financial advisor now. So we created her brand around don't gamble with your retirement yeah, that's in her book. So she talks about that. Well, her podcast that we helped her create has the same name and so now she can talk about on her podcast all of her strategies.
Speaker 2:And for a business owner, understand, it's not only the fact that you have a podcast, which is a platform, a credibility platform, it's the fact that they can get to know you because they can hear you. You can't really hear me. Through a book you can get to know me, but now I got your podcast. Ooh, now I know what's the video of that, right? And a podcast here's for us how we teach our clients that it's less about how many downloads you're getting and it's more about the relationships you're building with your listeners, but also with other people. So if you're an attorney and you have your podcast, you should be interviewing other people that your audience would want to hear from, and those other people are going to become referral sources for you as well. So you use your podcast.
Speaker 2:We call it a profitable podcast because it should be, but it's a credibility platform. So when somebody comes to your website now, they see that you have your own book and your own podcast and your own video show which is your podcast, really right? And then they're like God, this person is really all over the place and what happens is, as you communicate, you're building the relationship, you're giving them the information. And oh, by the way, if you ever, john, need to have a conversation with me, just get to like a 15 minute column, happy to answer any question you have about your unique situation, to see if we could be of help, and if I can't help you, I have an entire network of people I'd be happy to connect you with. Okay, that's how we approach business. You start putting that message out and I assure you you're gonna start gravitating lots of people towards you because it's a different message that's truly at the heart of most people living so.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening.