Center Stage: Spotlighting Business Challenges
Center Stage: Spotlighting Business Challenges
147 - Propelling Success with Authenticity with Erin Hatzikostas
Can revealing your authenticity propel you to success? Erin Hatzikostas, founder of B Authentic Inc., joins us to share her personal journey of how authenticity fuelled her rise in the corporate world. Erin’s unique leadership style, characterized by a robust dedication to her message, offers a refreshing perspective on standing out in the professional space.
Erin further unpacks her Six Principles of Strategic Authenticity framework, a toolbox for professionals navigating rule-laden environments. We also dive into the "Pratfall Effect," a psychological phenomenon that transforms "humility moments" into precious social currency. We discuss how to weave humility and storytelling into your introductions and make an impactful first impression.
Lastly, we explore the concept of the "Zero Moments of Truth" and how authenticity not only helps you stand out but also reduces these critical moments in sales and marketing. Join us as we explore how you can use your authentic self to build trust, accelerate relationship building, and find success in your professional field.
Connect with Erin on LinkedIn, and check out her book You Do You(ish): Unleash Your Authentic Superpowers to Get the Career You Deserve.
This podcast is brought to you by Spotlight Branding. Whether your firm only gets a few referrals or it's 100% of your business, you have the opportunity to double your referrals through educational, informative content. The pros at Spotlight Branding can help you create that content through blogging videos, email newsletters and more all designed to help you increase your referrals and attract the kinds of clients you want to work with. Visit spotlightbrandingcom slash pod to learn more. That's spotlightbrandingcom slash pod.
Speaker 2:This is Center Stage putting your firm in the spotlight by highlighting business owners and other industry experts to help take your firm to the next level.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, and welcome to Center Stage. I'm your host, john Henson, and today we are continuing on a theme that we've touched on a few times here lately, and that is about your authenticity and how it shines through your marketing message. It comes through in how you network. It comes through in just even marketing aside just in how you approach the legal work that you do, and so it's been a very important conversation and something that I really want to get to new driving home, because I continue to hear lawyers out there talk about like, oh, I'm not really that special, I don't really do anything unique, I'm just doing this or doing that with clients, and that's really not the case. Like, you do have a unique message. There is something there that helps you stand out and that's something that you do that is very special. And so, to add on to this conversation and to help share her insights, I am joined by the founder of Be Authentic, incorporated, erin Hatzakostas. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for nailing my name. You rocked it Awesome.
Speaker 2:I got it. As soon as I got to it I was like, oh man, I don't remember if I know how to say it right, yeah, People freak out.
Speaker 1:I see it every time, yeah.
Speaker 3:I had an internal moment. I know I get it, it's OK.
Speaker 2:Well, all right, at least we got past it. So glad you're here. Before we jump in, tell us a little bit about yourself and why this area is so important to you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so just a little bit of my background. I started in the corporate workspace about 25 years ago. I was at Western Michigan University sophomore year, dropped out of engineering, didn't know what I wanted to do, and my roommate came home one day and she was so jacked up she's like, oh my god, Erin, I found the career for you. I found it. I'm like, OK, Amy, what is it? And she's like, no, no, no, it's high pay, low stress. And I was like, OK, I'm listening. She's like it's called an actuary. And I was like, oh, and this is 1996.
Speaker 3:So I couldn't Google just how quote unquote cool actuary. So I pursued it right Because high pay, low stress and ended up coming out to the East Coast working, getting a job with Aetna swindled them in and I spent about three years taking exams. I think I took seven exams. I also spent three years failing seven actuarial exams, which was really fun as a high achiever to completely and utterly fail in your first career on an objective level. But I was lucky. I was at a big company and so there were a lot of opportunities and I sort of bobbed and weaved my way, as we do, doing things that were highly unqualified to do and eventually, speaking of highly unqualified, I eventually was named the CEO of one of their subsidiary companies.
Speaker 3:Now, this is important. I am a small town girl. I had teachers as parents, I had no aspirations, I was a hard worker, I was sharp, I did good at what I do, but I was not that person that was like I'm going to be an executive, I'm going to have the big job, and I took over the division. It sounded sexy. But most people are like, are you crazy? Because the company was like just a disaster. It was integration gone bad. It was a acquired company. It was the classic let's bring in these entrepreneurs and then give them no money to do what they need to do and then yell at them when it doesn't go well.
Speaker 3:And so I took over at a tough time and earnings have been flat for years. And when you have flat earnings you can't reinvest in the business, and so that's frustrating, right. You can't innovate, you can't invest in your people. Everybody was feeling it. And I took over and three years later, as CEO, we tripled earnings and employee engagement went up 15%. And along the way I didn't have imposter syndrome to say, but I was always sort of like when am I going to be found out? When is either my luck going to run out or I'm going to be found out? Because here's why I would look around me and I'd look at my peers and they weren't sacrificing as much as I was. They weren't grinding it out, they weren't traveling every week. I wasn't traveling every week like they were. I wasn't moving my family, I wasn't working every weekend.
Speaker 3:And so I kind of thought, ok, at some point, like your success cannot continue, right. And then it's kind of a whole another track which we won't get into, but I sort of got this itch and decided it was time to sort of jump out of corporate. I was just really scratching for something new. It felt stupid because things were going really well. But when I announced my retirement, people kept saying we're going to miss your authentic leadership, like message after message, discussion after discussion. And I wasn't surprised they called me authentic. But I never before that. I wasn't like this badge that had pinned, pinned. And here's why I tell you this as a frame for everything.
Speaker 3:We're going to talk about what I realized and I won't say in that moment because it takes a little while right, I put together I wasn't gonna be found out. I was just playing a different game than everybody else, than every other executive, and I was not just being authentic. We can get into that for myself, because authenticity isn't a permission, it's a power. It's not about you, it's actually about you working hard to buck the norm and expose things so that other people can trust you and connect with you, et cetera. But what I had realized was that I was using that strategically subconsciously. I had learned it from my father and did all that digging and wrote about that in my first book.
Speaker 3:But I realized that I was retaining the best talent because of my authenticity. I was creating great connections and trust with our customers. Because of it, I was negotiating deals better, not because I was strategic, but because I was using authenticity and they were thrown off by it, and then they were connected. By it, I was getting attention. And so I tell you all of that to say that I truly believe in this concept of authenticity, and not just as a lazy thing that you give yourself permission to do, but as something that can be strategic and has to be actually purposeful. Here's why Because in business, whether you're in the big corporation or, like your listeners, running your own business, which I do now too the norm takes you down this river of not being authentic. It's just easy to get caught up in. So it takes work, it takes thought, it takes a little bit of guts to purposely be authentic. But if you do, I promise you the results will be amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it kind of sounds like, at least from where I'm sitting, especially in the corporate world there's almost like a game you have to play. There's these kind of standard expectations. You kind of are supposed to act a certain way, say certain things a certain way, and then someone comes along, someone like you comes along, and you're not doing that not necessarily out of rebellion or because you don't like it, but you're just being yourself and that throws so many people off that now it's called authentic or maybe it's unique or whatever the case is. And so at least that's what I was hearing from a lot of what you're saying. And so how do you define authenticity?
Speaker 2:Because I know that that's a pretty, it's kind of a buzzword right now. I mean, I know, at least for me personally we set our goals to start this year. Mine was to be more authentic, ironically, and so it's interesting and I wanna hear how you kind of define all of this, because, at least for me, I'm seeing it more as just kind of leaning into the things that make you stand out and unique. But how do you see it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean a couple of things. One I always deprogram it's not being yourself, it's not synonymous with being yourself and it's not synonymous with transparency. They're two different things. The Greek root is authenticos, and authenticos means three things. It means to be genuine, which just makes sense, right, but it also means to be original and authoritative, and so authenticity is sort of this, I think I like to say it's sort of partly being yourself and partly being badass. It's like if Joe Exotic and Kamala Harris had a baby together, right? It's like you know. And so how I define it myself is a couple of ways. One, the definition I use as authenticity, is about exposing who you are when people least expect it, in the service of others.
Speaker 3:And then I have a framework called the Six Principles of Strategic Authenticity, with an acronym humans, which walks through six things and I always tell people of course it's not to tell you how to be 100% authentic, that would be hypocritical, but the principles. The humans framework is really training wheels or, to mix metaphors, sort of a life preserver so that you can start swimming upstream and then you can start to learn about it. Preserver so that you can start swimming upstream of that current that brings you down. Inauthentic. It's things that you can start to do, to start to catch the bug, because what you said before was absolutely right.
Speaker 3:I wasn't doing it just out of rebellion. The reason I was doing it and I didn't realize I had been collecting data points for years and years and years. First of all, I didn't start being authentic as a CEO. It has been what was making me successful, leading up to that right.
Speaker 3:And the reason I had been doing it was the quote, unquote data points I had collected from mostly from my father, watching his success being that way but subconsciously going, oh, it's okay, or oh, when he does that, people like him, he sells more business, he's a better teacher. You know, he's in a couple of different businesses. So the framework again is meant to sort of get you into out of that going through the motions that business can do, doing things right, following the formula, looking like a smart lawyer who has all their poop together, right, and so you know, experimenting with some of these things will start to give you those data points and get you addicted to it, actually, quite frankly, cause those data points are gonna be like, oh, like how this client like really laughed and came back for more business, or this grew, and now like, once you do that a few times, you don't need the humans framework, right, you're just gonna be addicted to your own data points and you're gonna start doing things differently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so and I think this is really pertinent for our audience, because I think a lot of times lawyers may feel handcuffed by this cloud of all of these ethics, rules and codes of conduct around them, and so they probably, you know, I think a lot of them think that they have to act and conduct themselves a certain way and to an extent they do Like. But I think that that leash is probably a lot longer than they may realize and they still have that flexibility to be authentic and to still, like you said. You know, I think there's like this weird dichotomy where they think, you know, people think lawyers have to act a certain way and then lawyers then play into that. And coming out and being authentic, like you said, when people don't expect it, I think really opens up a lot of opportunity for them to be more effective and to do a lot better work for the people that they're serving.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, absolutely, and I think they get you know it's easy to get stuck in. I have to be this way because it makes me look smart. Incredible when we forget that the number one most important business especially for lawyers, but including lawyers is trust. It's trust. It's trust in connection with their clients, with judges, with you know, whoever you know, and and there is no faster past to that connection and trust than authenticity. We have the data, it shows it, and so and I think I'd love to tell a quick story to that that sort of brings us to life, specific to your audience. So I have a podcast as well. It's called Because Work Doesn't have to Suck, and I co-host it with my good friend, nicole.
Speaker 3:We've been doing it for four and a half years and she has a good friend. Her name is Nicole it's not Nicole, renee Bauer, and Renee has owned her own law firm. She's a family practice lawyer, owned her own firm for 12 plus years and was doing really well, award winning practice here in Connecticut doing well, and Nicole had her on our podcast. She was one of our probably first 15 interviews or so and Nicole interviewed her and because she was a good friend and Nicole's crazy, she showed up at Renee's house with a huge platter of sushi, you know, a bottle, maybe two, of wine, and was like we're going to have fun with this right, and she started asking Renee questions. Now, renee now has a podcast and the speaker but it was her first podcast.
Speaker 3:And so Nicole just, you know, because we're all about authenticity she really dug into her background and Nicole, because she knew her so well, knew that Renee also herself had been divorced twice and she's now happily married to, honestly, jay's, the best guy ever. But, you know, had gone through, obviously, some ups and downs herself and then, ironically, was a family practice lawyer. And so Nicole asked her some questions about that. And I don't know if it was the unexpectedness, you know, or the wine, or the sushi, or all of it. You know Renee answered it, yeah, and talked about her own experience, which she'd never done before, and Nicole, afterwards she told her, you know, that's the first time I've really talked openly about my own, you know situation going through divorce. And Nicole is like, oh my gosh, I didn't realize that.
Speaker 3:And you know, I think Renee, of course, her thought was, well, no, that if I talk about that, that's going to make me look like a not credible who wants to work with a divorce attorney who's on her third marriage, right, and so we released the episode and what has happened since then is nothing short of amazing.
Speaker 3:I mean her, her law firm has completely exploded. She so much so that shortly after she started a brand called happy even after and renamed her, so really sort of helping people understand it was more than just legal she started telling her story. A lot of her clients are women, helping them with their sort of their happy even after and created a whole whole brand of business and etc. And so it's just a good example of how you know when we say authenticity, it's not on ethical and it's not even necessarily fancy, it's just exposing who you are when people least expect it to serve others. And she was serving others by saying hey, look, I get where you've been. I was, I've been there too, and that makes me, you know, probably a better trusted resource.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so to kind of, you know, reiterate that, you know, especially with our audience. And this is such a great example because I think a lot of times lawyers might feel a little bit hesitant to be authentic out of fear of exposing who they really are and that being some kind of negative thing. But especially in this case, you know, it's one of those things where it ended up really becoming a positive for her and helped people really connect with her in a positive way, even though maybe on paper it could be seen as a negative situation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and there's science behind it. Have you ever heard of the pratfall effect? I have?
Speaker 3:not yeah, I mean. So humility is one of the six primary kimono. That's the age in humans, but there is, there's data. So back in 1960s there was a psychologist that had this theory that people who did a pratfall which is kind of an old world name for like, did something wrong or a humility moment right, it's, you know, something you use in acting but it's like a blunder. So his theory was that people who were seen as competent this is really important he thought when they have a blunder or a pratfall we'll actually be more likable or more selected.
Speaker 3:And so he conducted an experiment. He put people into four groups competent without a pratfall, competent with a pratfall and then less competent with and without a pratfall. And the experiment was around what the people listening thought these people were trying out for, like a game show. So it was very objective, like they were getting some answers. You know, the competent ones were clearly competent. They were getting more answers right. Others weren't and they had these groups listen and the ones that had the pratfall.
Speaker 3:The pratfall was just them at the end of the contest or whatever their submission, saying, oh crap, I just I spilled some coffee on my jacket right, pretending like they accidentally spilled coffee and what his experiment found was that, in fact, those that were competent, that had that blunder and spilled the coffee were selected significantly more as the contestants as more likable. The same was not true when they were seen as less competent. That it actually brought it down, and I think that's a really important point. You know authenticity, or exposing who you are, your humility moment. If you just do that and then you do sloppy work and you don't follow up timely and it will hurt you. But if you have a track record, if you are doing good business, if you are organized and doing your practice well which I would imagine most of your listeners are and strive to do that adding in that humility moment, that authenticity, a pratfall, whatever you wanna call it actually will make their stakes go up and the experiment, the data, the science, the pratfall effect confirms that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that makes total sense to me Because I mean, I'm thinking about myself as a consumer. You know, to me if I'm getting a divorce, I look more favorably on a lawyer who has also gone through divorce, because they can at least empathize with me to a higher level than someone who's been like yeah, I've been married for 25 years, everything's great. I don't know why you can't do that Like. That's just at least how my mind would work 100%, 100%.
Speaker 3:People wanna connect. I mean we want imperfection, like drug dealers want cocaine, like we crave it. We crave seeing whether it's our friends, and going into their house and being like, oh, thank God it's messy right. Like, oh, makes me feel bad, like we don't care about their house. Like when it's clean we're not like, oh, they're so amazing. No, we think, god, I'm so crappy at keeping my house right. We all bring it back to ourselves. So when we see those imperfections, it's such a relief and it's just like immediate, like, oh, you're just like me, you're not perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what does this look like? You know, I think you know it's easy for us to imagine these sorts of things in actionable, tangible steps, so beyond, just kind of like a mindset thing, like how can authenticity be something that's tangible and actionable, like what can people do?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so let's talk a little bit. So the framework humans, the six principles it stands for humility, being unexpected, modeling, adapting, narrating and sparking, and so within those, there's a couple experiments and tangible things that I would give to you. I mean, the first, and probably the most powerful, that combines both the humility and the storytelling or narrate, is in your introduction. When you're meeting new clients or new judges or whoever it's creating what I call an intriguing intro, because most people would be like hey, john, nice to meet you. Tell me a little about yourself. Well, I've spent four years doing marketing and podcasting, and then you give them sort of like the resume and, especially if you're in a group setting, nobody heard a thing you said, because you know what they're doing, they're thinking about what they're going to say, right, unless you're last, they're like oh, I have no idea what you just said, because I'm trying to figure out what my intro is going to be. Instead, if you can create an intro that combines a humility moment with what I call a big brag, so that might look like. You know, I do this exercise with groups all the time, where you write down all your humility moments and maybe you say to me do a super simple one, you know.
Speaker 3:Let's say you're a lawyer, you're like I fail. You know what One of my humility moments? I failed, you know, constitutional law 101. When I was in college, like F. Okay. Now do you have to expose that? No, there's nothing in ethics If you're running a practice that says you have to tell them your grades on every class. Do people expect you expose it? Absolutely not. But let's say you say you know.
Speaker 3:Look, first thing I have to tell you about myself is I was gung-ho. I'm becoming a lawyer, got my undergraduate degree, I went to law school and I took my you know first semester and guess what I got in constitutional law. I got a big fat off, but I didn't give up. I finished school and I went on from there and I went to XYZ law firm. Within two years I became the hottest ticket on town, or whatever your big brag is. I closed X number of cases and then decided to do this.
Speaker 3:And the reason I tell you all of this is because, if you work with me, understand that you're not getting somebody who gets it right all the time, but you're getting somebody that's always gonna tell you the truth and tell you what's going on and that's a very obvious.
Speaker 3:But there's so many ways. If you kind of play with what is this humility moment, I can expose a time when you messed up, couple that with your competence, like in the pratfall effect, like a big bribe, the biggest thing, the thing that gives you that credibility, because you owe that to them too, and then end it with a and here's why I tell you you will, I'm telling you, john, immediately you are, they're done, they're like if they're shopping law firms, you've got the business in the first three minutes because nobody else is gonna do that. They're gonna feel this connection, they're not even gonna be able to name it and I don't know why. I really can't figure it out. I really like this John guy. Right, they may not even know, but it just it fast passes you through the zero moments of truth. Do you ever talk about Zemont and the zero moments of truth at all?
Speaker 2:No, not no.
Speaker 3:So the zero moments of truth is something that came out of a I don't know a big finger at Google or something like that, but it's pretty well known and recognized in the marketing community and essentially in the old days they always talked about first moments of truth and that was like when you went to a grocery store, you saw a new type of cereal and decided am I gonna buy this or not? I mean, everything was very transactional and like, how do we get them at that time to buy that box of cereal at that first moment of truth? Well, times have changed and also, as you think about big B2B or bigger clients, like your listeners are doing, there's something called a zero moments of truth and that's the time leading up to making a decision. Do they know, like and trust you, which is, I'm sure you know, we use that all the time and the zero moments of truth say that in general, people need seven hours of interaction across 11 interactions in four locations before they'll buy from you. That is the general truth and that's why you know you think I call it the olden days, but you know it's why guys I hate to say it, mostly guys went golfing right there. You've got another location, you got four hours probably knocked off, right, you like cut into your Zemont immediately. Or you've flown to San Francisco for an hour and a half dinner, like, was that really worth it? Well, yes, because it was reducing Zemont.
Speaker 3:You can still do those things, but in this modern day and age, a lot of people don't. They replace those with other things. And there's really three things you can do. One is relationships, which everybody knows. If you got a relationship, an introduction, that's always, you know, age old. The second is really content creation. That's why people do content creation, like a podcast, like a LinkedIn article, like a book, right Behind the scenes. People can get to know would I wanna work with spotlight branding? Well, I don't have to do the meetings, I'm just gonna sleuth through their podcast and through their articles and see if I jive with their philosophy. Are these good people? Like, do they right? Do they say the things that I believe in? And the third thing is authenticity. And authenticity is such a speed pass.
Speaker 3:I have been on a number of sales calls where, look, it was a big, you know arrangement, a large sum. I didn't really know the person, but by bringing in, you know, the intriguing intro, by sort of talking to them using languages that isn't all stuffy being robotic, all the principles of authenticity I was able to significantly reduce the Zmont, and so the way I frame it to people is like, look, you don't have to be authentic, you can choose not to pick that. You absolutely can't. Well, you have to do something to get Zmont down to zero and you have to do something else. So if you're not doing that, you have to do the steak dinners or the write the books or to the you know, and it's just a matter of which one you wanna do. And I think most people would say, hmm, I think the authenticity thing sounds a little easier than you know. Some of the other strategies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and as you're talking, I mean it's. You know we didn't use that exact terminology, but it's still the same sort of process that we tell our clients to do. I mean, you have to stay top of mind, you have to keep showing up, and in different places, and that's why it's good to be on social media, it's good to have the email newsletters going out. It's good to have that sort of introduction and have that framework be part of your bio page on your website if you're not being able to meet these people in person and really start building up that rapport and building up that trust. And it just it makes it so much easier because it, you know, like you know again, it breaks down those barriers, builds that trust a lot faster.
Speaker 3:That's right, that's right. And then the holy grail is if you can show up in those places in an authentic way, right. So your article. Most lawyers talk with stuff, you stuff. You talk with layman's terms and, funny you know, you say poopy instead of whatever, like now you're. It's like double, double whammy speed through the Zima.
Speaker 2:Get the sale, get the client, yeah so, you know, and to kind of start to wrap this up here, you know I've talked with a bunch of lawyers and I bring this, I brought this up in other episodes, but I I've talked to so many lawyers who just have this mindset of that like I'm not really that special, I don't have anything unique, I'm just writing wills for people, I'm just, you know, filing divorces for people, like there's nothing Super unique about me. What do you, what do you say, to pay to like because, like, granted, there may be some element, like they may just feel authentic in that regard of like, yeah, this is just what I do, this is the path I chose, whatever. But how, how is how can you, if you take, if you keep that, or if there is something authentic that can be pulled out, how do you get that started? How do you even find that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I mean, it starts with a lot of questions, but I think the the the first thing I would frame up for them is people don't buy Products and services. You know that they trust. They buy from people they trust, right, and so the first place you look I mean first place most companies look for their uniqueness is in their products and services. Right, and that's why I spend so much time, you know, spending money on technology and fancy billboards or whatever it is, and Instead could be spending a lot less time on what I call like bargain innovation, and bargain innovation is essentially Finding the innovative things in you, or it's not even innovative, right, like.
Speaker 3:So I think when you're looking for what's unique, I mean it could be that you know on in your spare time, you are a head referee for soccer, you know New York, and when you do that, this is what you learn from it and bring into your practice. It could be that you came from a background of poverty and now that you're, you know that you do your legal activity. It sort of informs how you know the practice of what you're doing. I think I would be very, very shocked if anybody listening right now Couldn't find something that's unique, and so I think the first place you need to look at is you. It's like the example back to Renee. You know, it wasn't about maybe her practice and how they did things, but it was about her and and and and. Not just about her, but the fact that she was willing to expose it.
Speaker 3:So, look at you. Look at you first, find what's unique about you and, and if you can't do that, you know, get a coach or somebody a business coach. I mean, this is what I do. I work with with companies to help them grow it, and you know Somebody they can look at it from the outside in will, will ask the right questions and probably see things pretty darn quickly that you can Leverage. And then you just have to have the guts to do it a little bit differently and they go out there and expose it and stand, you know, strong against it, even if everybody else isn't, because that's where the power is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, and it's such a great transition You're professional at this, like I was going to say, like that's why it's important to work with someone like you, because I think a lot of times business owners, lawyers, they, they it's almost like they approach their audience as if they're just trying to sell to themselves and and You're not Buying your service from yourself, you know. And so it's easy to kind of get bored and jaded with your own story, because you've lived it every single day, you're used to it. But the people who you're building that trust with, the people who are going to buy from you and work with you, it's all brand new to them and it can be very exciting with them. And so that's where that encouragement and working with someone like you can pull that out and kind of reframe that perspective To really amplify that value in what makes someone unique and authentic.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and if you don't mind, I'm gonna be a little bit contrarian even to that. I think, yeah, honestly, john, it's the opposite. When you say people try to sell what they think they'd want to buy, they're not honest with themselves on how they buy. I feel like you know I do this all the time when I work with groups and you know, for example, one one executive group I worked with, they had an upcoming town hall and the woman was confessing I, or they, already had it. And she said you know, I was thinking about when I was gonna do my piece, I was gonna tell a story and I was gonna do kind of more authentic. But then I thought that's not what everybody else wants and I looked around the group. I said raise your hand. If you a, you'd prefer somebody, go in with the rigid, give the update on the numbers, the expected.
Speaker 2:You know none of the hands went up.
Speaker 3:And then how many people would rather have heard the messy story, the inspirational and all the hands go up, and I Actually think we have a disease of this. This is how I this is the metaphor I use.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, when you have a kid's birthday party they're three or four years old they go to like the bouncy house. Then they come into the room and they do the pizza and the cake right, and they get the pizza and then they come around with a cake and they give cake to the kids and they're all like, oh, can I get a bigger piece, or can I get more ice cream, are they all? You know, they all take the cake and then the parents are awkwardly standing around the outside and then they have some extra and they come around and of course they ask would John, would you like a piece of cake? What do most parents say?
Speaker 2:I haven't gotten that far yet. My son's only like two and a half months old. I mean, I know I would probably like my initial reaction would be like no, I'm good and let people move on, but maybe other people might be.
Speaker 3:Thank you for being honest. No, that's. Most people say no, but what are most people thinking?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it'd be good to have some. I really would love it.
Speaker 3:That's authenticity at work, and I think when we say, oh, we're marketing like we want to be market, I think if you really slow down and you take off your hat as the business owner and put on your hat as a consumer, like you've done throughout this interview right, you've like, you're like, oh well, that's how I and you really think about what you are most attracted to and you marketed that way, yes, actually, I think you'd be more successful. I think we're just not honest to ourselves. Instead, we try to build what we should, or looks cool, or we think other people want, and that we have this disease where the only one that secretly wants the cake and it's like no guess what they all want the cake. Yeah, and give them the freaking cake.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I absolutely agree, and that was what I was trying to articulate. I think a lot of lawyers they get in this space of like they're market. A lot of times they market to other lawyers and their content is geared toward other lawyers, and other lawyers aren't the ones who are hiring you for your service, it is the audience, and so what peaks your audience's interest may be very different from what peaks another lawyer's interest and being able to break down that barrier is what's really gonna help help your firm and help grow so much more.
Speaker 2:So a lot, tons of great info here. How can people learn more about you and follow you and see everything that you've got going on?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, the best place to sort of find me is LinkedIn. I have a website, but I'm most active on LinkedIn, so connect with me there. And then, yeah, if you're listening to a podcast, you can also listen to, because Work Doesn't have to Suck where we sort of help you do things more authentically and then see if anything floats your boat. And then there's lots of other ways that you can get involved in the authenticity movement.
Speaker 2:Awesome, love it. One final question for you before we wrap up. If you had one last piece of advice for our audience, what would it be?
Speaker 3:You know I'm writing my next book and I think it would be the 50% rule because I'm totally obsessed with it. So the next book is called the 50% Rule. My first book was called you Do You-ish, which was really about authenticity and what we're talking about. How do you use it as a superpower?
Speaker 3:The 50% rule is this stupid, simple rule, john, that basically says, every time you're given advice including this podcast, including listen to you and me or you're looking at how things were done before you're trying something new, only take about half of what was done before, what people tell you, leave the half that doesn't feel like you, that you think you could do better and curate that with something new and different. And it sounds stupid, but I'm telling you people, if you could just every time you get stuck in the next week, say to yourself how could I 50% rule this? It's magical and it's got so many twists and turns that I'm actually you got a full book already written on it working with a publisher and I'm just totally addicted to it. So that would be my advice 50% rule your barriers for the next week and see how that works out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I love that and I definitely want to learn more about that, because, god, I mean, how many times do we get frustrated when people ask us for advice and then they don't listen to any of it because it's what they want here, or where someone gives us advice and it's not what we want to hear? So, like that is a really, really interesting concept that people can really take with them. So, thank you so much for taking some time to join us this week, and that's gonna do it first here on Center Stage. Thank you so much for continuing to listen. Again, you know, rate and review the show. Let us know what you'd like to hear from us in the future, and that's gonna do it, aaron. Thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 1:You're welcome. Thanks, John.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening. To learn more, go to spotlightbrandingcom. Slash center stage.