Center Stage: Spotlighting Business Challenges
Center Stage: Spotlighting Business Challenges
148 - Decoding the Kolbe Assessment with Dominic Loffredo
Ever wondered how your cognitive instincts influence your professional life? This week we're joined by Dominic Loffredo, a certified Kolbe instructor, to cover this unique personality test that measures the cognitive part of the mind.
We examine how the Kolbe assessment varies from other popular personality evaluations such as Myers-Briggs and CliftonStrengths. We explore how each Kolbe mode affects critical aspects of our professional lives: decision-making, problem-solving, risk tolerance, and physical tasks. We dig into how these categories play out across different industries and roles within a company, especially your law firm.
To learn more and have Dominic and The Million Dollar Solution® provide Kolbe coaching for your firm, reach out to them directly at info@themilliondollarlawyer.com
This podcast is brought to you by Spotlight Branding. Whether your firm only gets a few referrals or it's 100% of your business, you have the opportunity to double your referrals through educational, informative content. The pros at Spotlight Branding can help you create that content through blogging videos, email newsletters and more All designed to help you increase your referrals and attract the kinds of clients you want to work with. Visit spotlightbrandingcom slash pod to learn more. That's spotlightbrandingcom slash pod.
Speaker 2:This is Center Stage putting your firm in the spotlight by highlighting business owners and other industry experts to help take your firm to the next level. Hey everyone, and welcome to Center Stage. I'm your host, john Henson, and this week we are talking about another really cool personality assessment that we've used here internally here at Spotlight Branding, to better understand how each of us work, how we fit into our roles or what, maybe even what roles fit certain types of people. We've had episodes in the past on this show about Enneagram and CliftonStrengths and I encourage you to go back and check those out. But this week we are talking about the Colby assessment and I'm sure a lot of you are very familiar with that, and so I am joined by a certified Colby instructor, dominic LaFredo, this week to tell us all about it.
Speaker 2:Dom, thanks for joining us. Yeah, thanks for having me. John, Glad to be here, awesome. So for those who aren't familiar, dom is with a group called Million Dollar Solution. We've had Julie Steinbacher on the show a couple of times and I'm sure he will tell us more about that great organization later on. But before we dive in, tell me a little bit about how you got involved in Colby and why you're here today.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so the background of my job a lot of it involves the human resources, the people side of law firms and businesses and our company has been using Colby for 15 years now give or take, and beginning of the pandemic. Part of my job is event planning. That slowed down and we're big on the continued learning and development and their opportunity arose to attend a training to get Colby certified, since we use that a lot in the hiring process, talent management development, ongoing from beginning to end. So that's kind of where I jumped into it. It was pitched to me in a way that really resonated with human resources and just in people management as a whole, and so that's really why and when I dived in.
Speaker 2:Awesome and so kind of broadly speaking, what is the Colby index assessment and how does it kind of differ from other kind of like personality tests like a Myers-Briggs or a Clifford Strinks or stuff like that?
Speaker 3:That's a great question, John. So both parts of that question actually merge really well together. So the Colby, unlike most personality assessments, it looks at a different part of the mind. So the foundation of the Colby assessment is based on the three parts of the mind, which is your cognitive right, that's your learn, your life experiences. That's always changing right as you experience, learn, adapt to new things. Then the other part of your mind is the effective right, that's your feelings and your emotions, that kind of changes with different stages of life or different priorities in your life. And then the third part of your mind, which is one of the most misunderstood words in the English dictionary, is cognitive. I had not heard of it until I got certified.
Speaker 3:But cognitive is your natural instincts, right, it's the do part of your being. And so the Colby evaluates and assesses the doing, the cognitive part of your mind. So, like Clifton, Strinks, Myers-Briggs, Disc there's a bunch of them. They all have their place. They can be used to help your business in a variety of ways and really also not discrediting them in any way. But they all evaluate either the cognitive or the effective parts of your mind.
Speaker 3:So that's the biggest difference in the two and my easiest way to kind of highlight Colby is the instinctual part. It defines what makes us left or right-handed right, why things just click doing it this way and yet someone else can do a completely different way and it's good for me to do it my way and it's good for you to do it your way. So the Colby upon that and where it expands, is it really helps us define if you're giving a task or a project, if you have the freedom to go about completing that task any way you please. The Colby's going to help clarify why you went about and why you solved that problem or completed that task that exact way and it's just your process going through that. And that's where we use it in firms with the hiring and the development.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And after I took this quiz, it was one that, like you said, it did really explain why I do things the way I do them or how I do them, and really made a lot of sense. And then, as we kind of implemented this throughout our company, we started noticing a pattern, and we'll get into what the different scores mean in the categories. Because there's basically you take this assessment, you answer a few questions and then you are given four numbers based on basically four different categories or four different traits or whatever you got fact finder, follow through, quick start and implementer, and so it's like what? One through 10. And so the higher the number, the more like that trait you are, more or less.
Speaker 2:For lack of a way, you probably have some better language than I do on that no-transcript everyone else scored. And then to kind of look at it through that lens, it's like, oh, that's why they kind of work the way they do or that's, you know, that's why they ask those questions that way, or anything like that. So let's dive in to each of these four kind of categories or sections of the Colby and let's start with FactFinder. What does it mean to be a FactFinder or a high FactFinder versus a low FactFinder, stuff like that.
Speaker 3:That's a great question. I do have to point out my chart, so I don't know how well you can see this, but this is a chart everyone gets with their own personalized results. Every employee has one of these on their desk, right to reference. So the FactFinder and I'll call that the first mode is how you handle data right. So it's information based right. So going from one to 10, and I will point out, the Colby actually flips their chart upside down. So usually on a scale of one to 10, one is at the bottom, 10 is at the top because one's looked at as a poor score and 10 is looked at as a great score. Colby's upside down. So one is at the top, 10 is at the bottom, and they do that just to show shape with a positive, negative result. And that's just because a one and a 10 all have their place in our equally as valuable which will make sense here more when I explain this. But so the FactFinder people, this again evaluates how you handle information and data.
Speaker 3:So I'm an eight, I am an initiating FactFinder, meaning that is my most dominating trait. So I like a lot of details. So if I'm given a project or someone asked me a question. I'm going to send them a lot of information, right. I like the research part of it. I want to make sure kind of things are flushed out ahead of time, which right that has its place in the legal industry. You need lots of information.
Speaker 3:So a lot of law firms are heavy on FactFinders because, again, legal, you got to have that quality of data and information in order to do good legal work the opposite side of a FactFinder. So, like your ones, two, threes, right. They are the people who are really good at taking a big spreadsheet or just reading a big report and saying here, here are the three most important sentences or facts to pull out of it. They can just reduce the clutter. I am not a good person for that because I'm like, oh man, how can you eliminate all this stuff? That's a good bit to learn from that right. So again, that's the you know my example of why a one and a 10 are both good to have on the team to balance one another out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, I know, especially for me, like I was like a seven, like. So I'm up there with you on, like you know, I ask all these questions. I think I'm trying to get all these details and you know for and it's interesting, you know, working with someone who's on the opposite side of that, who you know can just kind of pick things really quickly and move on because it's to your point, I'm sitting there like how can you, what about this thing? Or what about this thing? Or you know, did you ask this question or look at it from this angle? And so it is just really interesting how you, even just from the first mode, like you said, you start to develop and really understand, how you know different people can work and obviously there are things in between. I don't want to turn this into, you know, like there's two different types competing against each other, but but yeah, so that's fact finder. What about follow through? What is that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so follow through mode, or the follow through mode, evaluates how you handle systems and processes, right. So, along the same line, right as fact finder. Where do you want a lot of systems? Do you want to build the system or do you want to find the shortcut? Right Again, people who can find a shortcut in a, I'll say like in our world, a crisis appointment, right, they got to figure out how to do this quicker.
Speaker 3:That's that's super valuable. But also in the legal industry you have to have a lot of procedures. It's very system driven and a lot of law firms right, and that's needed. So people who are on the higher end of the follow through spectrum, they're the people you want building the systems. People in the middle, those are people who maintain they'll tweak it here or there, but they're all along the mindset of you know, if any broke don't fix it, then you have the other end of it, whether it's actually called resisting follow through. Who you're? A one, two, three and those are people who are going to find the quickest way to do it. So that's where the follow through comes in. And I do want to point out you kind of led into it of the two sides of the fact finder, two sides of the follow through. It applies to every mode that we're going to discuss. But that really determines how we communicate and that's a big piece that we use it in the hiring aspect, right. So one flushing out what kind of candidates you need, what kind of candidates that position really is going to benefit from, and then how do we communicate to this new hire right on training, because it actually needs to look different based on your Colby.
Speaker 3:And the communication aspect is key. I always give the example of my boss when I first started. I'm a fact finder, so I'd give her a long email when I was tasked with something and she would say yes, or great, or good, or like let me know what's next. That's it. And I'd be like, oh, she's upset. She like I had all this information in an email. Nope, she's just on the lower end of the fact finder, right. So she needs less details than me. She just reads the first three, four bullet points enough to enable her to make a decision and she's good. So it's a big part in understanding each other's cool ways of making sure we can communicate appropriately, so that I communicate to you in a way that you can learn, and vice versa.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And so, and I wanna move to this third one here, because this is you know, at least for me, and this is where maybe I have some different kinds of questions. The third one is quick start, and I've always seen the first three as being a little bit similar to each other, or at least related to each other in a way, and we'll talk about the fourth one in a minute. But for me, and tell me if you've seen something different For me, someone who's you know the eight, nine, 10 or seven, eight, nine or whatever, as a fact finder at least from what I can tell, or at least in my mind, you can't also be, or you are not. How do I wanna say this? You're on the opposite end of the quick start. You know You're good with going in.
Speaker 2:This is the third one, the quick start is the third one. Or you know, if you are, you know, high end, or seven, eight, nine on the fact finder, you're also probably or potentially even a higher number on the follow through. Have you seen that sort of thing? And that we'll get to that. Actually, you know, here we go, I'm all over the place right now. Explain quick start and then answer my first question about. You know if those are kind of related, if you've seen that or if there is some sort of correlation with that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so the quick start mode is how you handle risk and uncertainty, right. So what's your tolerance for risk? Right? Are you a big idea person that wants to go out and create these different marketing campaigns or business plans? Or it doesn't even have to be as extreme or as big as a business plan per se, but it all gauges what your risk level is, right. So the people who are initiating, who are the sevens through tens, right, they're looked at as more creative I wouldn't always use that term necessarily, because they're not always in creative roles.
Speaker 3:Right, because creative people think of, like, the graphic aspect or marketing aspect of the world, which is a lot in your industry. Right, but those who are resisting quick start so ones, two, three and I'm a two are they're focused more on stabilizing things. Right, providing stability, eliminating risk, right. So I mentioned event planning is part of it, part of my role. What risks should we take, what things have worked really well, what things have failed, what things have we hurt? To test out here and there, to kind of process of elimination, to provide that stability.
Speaker 3:And now what you mentioned, john, I've seen that based on the exact position in a firm right. So that's different, based on a paralegal role executive director or office manager, and then owner attorney role, the firms we work with. So it's not necessarily that you can't, because I can and I've read a lot of Colby assessments and I've known the people. I've tried to predict and when you get certified they tell you don't, you're always gonna be wrong. At least for two out of the four months it's, one will catch you off guard and that's what happens a lot. So what I've seen a lot in that and again it's really industry-based is that the business owners who are attorneys that we work with, being attorneys right, have the fact finder right. They have that desire, that need for in-depth detail and precision.
Speaker 3:But then as a business owner right, their tolerance for risk is a little bit higher. Now, that's not everybody across the board, obviously. A lot of them tend to have you know a four, five and quick start or higher typically. But I do know several who have you know, our you know eights, seven, eights in each as well. But again, it really varies on the industry, I think is people are drawn to what fits their MO right, and that's what the cool is. Is your MO really what you're about, significantly?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's just so interesting to me because, just like in the way that my mind works, it's like I need to have answers to a bunch of different questions to feel good about the risk that I'm going to take, right, yeah, and so that's why you know me, I'm like I'm higher on the fact finder and I'm lower on the quick start, and to me, like I've always seen that as kind of a relationship, but I mean to your point and I'm glad that you explained that where it's like some of the more entrepreneurial minded, you know, law firm owners, they probably are a little bit more quick start because they're you know, they're in that mode of growing and all that. So that's really good insight there. So then the fourth one is Implementer, and this is the one that I understand the least. So tell me all about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so this is the one that is the most important to explain, because it's where people can get the most confused, and I think it's simply because of the name, right. So people here implement are like oh, you implement things right and that's tied into like the follow through, right, the process, how you like, processes and procedures. The Implementer is actually how you handle space and tangibles, right. So it's very physical. So I am a three and I keep just looking at my little chart here because I'm always referencing my numbers, but so I'm a three.
Speaker 3:So the lower end of the numbers of the Implementer is more envisioning, right? So in my role and I'm actually we'll do a different one. So I have lots of family in the trades, my grandfather, bill Bridges so in that setting you're gonna be someone who's like, hey, here's a great opportunity If we put in this bridge over this river, we're gonna save all this time in building a road. But that person can envision that that's a need. But they are not the person to architecturally design the bridge. That's the 789 and Implementer.
Speaker 3:Those people like physically building things right From scratch or tearing them apart just to figure out how to fix it. And so a good example of this is I would call myself a car guy. Now mechanics would laugh at me for that because I only know the basics. But I grew up changing oil and brakes and some of the basic stuff. I've done it dozens of times watching my dad and grandfather before I ever did it on my own.
Speaker 3:So the fact that I do that is a learned behavior. So that's the cognitive part, right, it's not me just taking a part. I do not go just rip apart my car and self-diagnose things. Right, it's basic things that I've done and learned how to do time and time again from those who probably are initiating Implementers that, the 789s. So that's the differentiating aspect there, but it's really space and tangibles and so, like the law firms we work with, there's not a huge need for that right, the printers. There's a company that comes and fix the printers right. You have someone who fixes your spouting or the physical part of the building, so you don't have to worry about that. So the law firms I work with are more heavy on the fact finder follow through pieces more often than anything else, just based on what the need is for their.
Speaker 2:And that makes a ton of sense, because I'm one of those people who gets frustrated with the Ikea furniture after 15 minutes even though.
Speaker 2:I'm reading the instructions and the instructions don't make sense, and it's just I can't do it. But I can talk about abstract ideas and kind of talk through things and the intangible stuff a lot more, and so all of that makes a ton of sense. So how then, with all of this, now with this understanding, how can a law firm use this information to either improve their hiring process or even better understand the roles that they have or the employees that they have?
Speaker 3:Another great question, john. So I'll start with the hiring, because that's the first step In the hiring process. It's really important that you know what you need, what you're looking for, and the biggest mistake companies make when hiring is they're hiring based on the person who was previously in that role or themselves being in that role. So if you were previously in that role and you're hiring as a business owner, you first start. Now you tend to hire people just like you and that creates cloning. Too much of anything is a bad thing I forget who said that, but I'm sure there's probably several people who have but you have to be careful of cloning and hiring people just like you. You need the diversity of strengths, the. The other aspect is or, if it's a new role, maybe you don't necessarily know right. So there's another Colby assessment that you take and it helps define Outlines based on what you answered. You need someone who's very detailed, right, needs a lot, gets a lot of data, or you need someone who's Process heavy. Maybe you need someone to hit up your marketing in that. You want someone who's more of a quick start and has that, that creative mindset. So it helps us Real focus, really focus on what we what we need for our firm and for our business Right with a Colby. So that that's the first part. That the next part is I always like to go to the onboarding and the training aspect, and again that goes back to what I said about the communication of Making sure that how you train this person fits their, their Colby, because again, we tend to teach how we personally learn right, but if that person learns a different way, we need to tweak our style a little bit and how we communicate those things, how we set them up, because that either sets them up for Success or it sets them up for burnout right away and over overwhelm anxiety. Anything new right out the gate when it comes to a job is overwhelming. You're just being inundated with new information and processes that you know you weren't exposed to before. So that's a big piece.
Speaker 3:And then you're talking just a longevity, retention of employees. The communication is ongoing but it's gets more into the team environment right of making sure they then know their own Colby and then the people that they work with around them again and get it goes with Like meetings right. So you and I were on a meeting just the two of us, john, us being fact finders that you said you were seven. We're gonna go through a lot of information and we are more likely to run over our meeting. So if you and I start a meeting and then loop someone else who's not a fact finder and they're gonna make man. They like to spend 25 or the 30 minute meet, 25 minutes of the 30 minute meeting on the first two things, and we have eight more things to get through on the agenda.
Speaker 3:So it's it's being able to balance each other out, knowing your strengths. When to pull someone in, you has a strength that's different than yours, where you're lacking and and you need their, to bounce ideas off them and get that, get things flowing, so that that's a big part in just the longevity of employees. It's also helped us and this is one that kind of blew me away when I was in New York, colby, where I've seen it happen Just a ton of times. Where it's been done really well is you have a employee who's performing really well for a while, or did well from the get-go, and all of a sudden their, their productivity or their happiness drops you. Just something's off. Now that can always be a personal thing affecting them. You know at home, outside of work. That can be addressed.
Speaker 3:But a lot of times we found that it's actually that you know what their Colby doesn't match the position that that well and maybe they need to be switched to a different department.
Speaker 3:So this one attorney we had Was very detail-oriented. Right now we just automatically assumed sometimes and that's what we did with him is Alternatives she's been working with All attorneys should be really detail-oriented. But we realized that the department he was in Did a lot of crisis work and they need to be more quick with with their processes and he just wasn't getting things done quick enough. So we transitioned him to a department that is very not as rushed right, they have more time, does a great job much better fit, happier, right, you know, going down the road. So that's just one example, and a fairly basic one, but where we can help kind of evaluate before they get burned out and it's too late and they're already out your door and then you have to fill the position again because you know we don't just want that turnover, we want to be able to combat that as well. Turnover is not cheap, so we want to make sure we take care of the ones that we have here and have invested in so that yeah.
Speaker 3:Specter them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if someone's in a position where they are thriving and they're in the best fit for them, they're going to do that much better and you'll see that much more benefit from their work in it overall in the firm. One final question that I had for you about this is sometimes when people take the Colby, they won't get results. They will get what is called in transition. We actually had someone in our office this happened to them when they took it. What does that mean when you get that result of being in transition?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so getting a transition result for one or multiple modes. You got a lot going on right. A lot of the times it's you're switching a new job, you're going into a new role and you I've had a couple people who just became first-time parents recently, right when they were taking the Colby that switched it up, just bought their first home. It's a lot of personal, but it's just things that were like your life is changing a lot right now and so you have to settle for, like they recommend, three to six months before you retake it Again. It can be a facet of things, but every person I've ever had it was in transition.
Speaker 3:It's come down to One of those there's a major like shift in their life happening right now or there's just a lot going on simply and so that just means you just need to give yourself some time Can be able to retake it in a few months to once those things are settled down a little bit.
Speaker 2:Got it and so you know, to kind of wrap this up, then you know so, is there? Is there kind of a set time? Because obviously this doesn't sound like something that you take once and that's your results for life. You know, obviously, and like you said, like as you, as you said at the beginning, as you go through life, you know different experience may change how you respond to things. Right, is there a set amount of time or a certain interval when, like, hey, I took the Colby over the summer? How many years from now should I work with these results? You know, before I maybe look at taking it again?
Speaker 3:So that's actually a good, a good point, john. So they actually, kobe's just celebrated their 40th year, or just over 40 years now. But they have 10, 20 and 30 year studies where you take it you know 30 years ago and you take it today. All of these studies revealed that you have I believe it's a 94% chance or higher 94% chance or higher Get the same result or same category. So like, if you're a one, you're gonna be a one, two or three. If you're a six, you're gonna be a four, five, six or you know you get it. But so it's very stable and that's just an instinctual part of you.
Speaker 3:Really doesn't change the people that have requested retake it or they when they took it. Like again, when you're taking it for a job, you always over emphasize of listen. This does not Declare if you get the job or not. This is to match up right. Can you fit this role better? This? You know we've had people pie for job a and actually they take the Kobe. Oh no, we really like them. But job V matches more like that's getting over there. That's gonna be better fit. So you have to Engage it in that way.
Speaker 3:But so it's not something necessarily where you have to retake it, or necessarily should that. Kobe actually doesn't want you to have to retake it, but the big heart is your. Your frame of mind needs to be very Open. You're not answering questions to it what you think should be done, because then then you're gonna get inactive results. You thought you should be very detail-heavy, so you're. You answered questions like that on the Colby Because it was for your job and maybe if you were to take, took it again. You're actually much lower on the scale.
Speaker 3:What's yet not necessarily bad, but yeah, so that, and that's why different assessments that evaluate the effective or the cognitive parts of your mind, they do change a lot, like mine one. I took them a lot in college. Every professor had me take a different one, but one day I was an introvert, the next day I was an extrovert. Right, it depended if it was a class that I'm comfortable going up and presenting in front of the entire class or a class that was on a topic. You know, like anything, science is not my strong suit. I did not want to have to go and talk, so I'm a little bit more reserved in those settings. So really, you know, gauge, is there what? What you're evaluating?
Speaker 2:awesome, yeah so all this has been really great. I know you cleared some things up for me, so I know that's great. So I know that means Everyone out there definitely learned something as well. How do you guys at MDS Use Colby and how can people get in touch to learn more about what you're doing with it?
Speaker 3:Yes, so we our process. We use it a lot in our hiring right for us personally.
Speaker 3:But we also do it for other other firms law firms, financial advising firms when we help you in the hiring process, right. So whether we're recruiting for you or we're just doing the Colby aspect of it, but your top candidates are gonna take the Colby and it helps kind of evaluate what again, looking at their natural strengths and matching into the job, to kind of help you in that final decision-making when you hopefully have a few good top tier candidates to select from. And there's a big aspect of how we use it in order, you know, getting ahold of us, you can reach out to me at our info, at the million dollar lawyer calm. The is included in that. That's a big one that's. People miss sometimes Colby information on our website as well. But feel free to reach out. We'd be more than happy to help you guys.
Speaker 2:Awesome, yep, and I'll include that email in the episode show notes. But that's gonna do it. Thank you so much for continuing to listen. I hope you guys really do check out the Colby assessment. It really does, you know, illuminate a lot of things that you know some of these other personality assessments don't. It really does give you some really good insight into just how people Attack things and execute on things and approach you know how they get their work done and so I know you guys are doing a lot of good work over there and helping a lot of firms out doing that. So I encourage everyone to go and Contact Dom and million dollar solution to to get some of that process started. But that's gonna do it first this week. Thanks for joining us. Yeah, thanks again, john. Thanks for listening to learn more. Go to spotlight branding comm slash center stage.