Orgasms, Hookup Culture, What We Value In First Dates - The Intimate Life

Orgasms, hookup culture, what we value in first dates... we spill the tea.

The culture of dating and sex has changed a LOT in the past decade. We crave connection in a time when we spend most of our lives on devices and when we have made a connection, we don't know how to maintain it. 

Does this sound familiar?

We talk about how fantasy and reality can equally be important in relationships. In this episode, Vlad opens up to share his perspective as a man and what he values in sex.

The Intimate Life is an experimental podcast that will be released every 5th episode. Please send us a message if you'd like to hear us more!

Transcript

Jen Li: 0:01

The heart of humans podcast explores the secrets to building flourishing relationships. We demystify the elements of desire, trust and love by interviewing conscious lovers and providing reflections to help you create the relationships of your dreams. Hey, welcome to the intimate life. I decided to go with that name because it feels like it's an intimate look into our lives. But no, I'm open to the name change. I just thought of lagenda Plus, john Baboom Wow. This is why comedy is not my day.

Vlad: 0:55

What do you think the rate of like? conversion on that podcast name would be people just looking at you know, at the titles? I guess it depends on the thumbnail.

Jen Li: 1:07

I don't know you're the marketing expert. I just speak interview people,

Vlad: 1:13

right? Okay, that works. Yeah, I'll figure it out. I have just put test it hard to say, all right, I don't have a hypothesis.

Jen Li: 1:21

Come back with the results. Okay. I want to talk about um, you know, I did I interviewed Amy and an orgasmic priestess, a healer of sacred sexuality. And I found it really, really fascinating. And she used a lot of language that is very, like spiritual and specific to her expertise. Right? I did my best to keep up and I think I really wanted to learn from what she knew about her own journey of uncovering the orgasm.

Vlad: 2:06

Yeah, I'm torn there because you know obviously like everybody's intimately familiar with this I would call it you know, in search of the orgasm or chasing the orgasm like if you're a guy and chasing it your whole life basically. Almost like almost like a crackhead chases the next hit it's boy yeah I mean cuz it's it's a big dopamine serotonin release, right? So like when you have an orgasm, like as a man like you're you're always just looking for that quick hit. Especially when just on your own masturbating right?

Jen Li: 2:43

Oh, so out of all? Well, I'm

Vlad: 2:46

not sure that it has evolved so much for me, Divo perhaps, but uh, well what I was gonna say initially was I can see from one perspective, this point of like, oh, the orgasm is this sacred thing and you can really utilize it to deepen your relationship with yourself and like discover other parts of yourself that maybe you weren't aware of and there's this whole sacred science around it. Pretty cool right? Like that's pretty cool. I think that's pretty far from what most people kind of engage with day to day but then there's this other part of me that kind of feels like we just put too much emphasis on the orgasm in general and I think like we're so many of us are guilty of that and we make sex about the orgasm you know as a man especially like we you know, for men it's much easier to come and we make sex about pleasing woman making sure a woman can come it's like for us it becomes this like ego thing where we don't we feel inadequate if we don't if we can deliver on that and and so maybe we just get a bit too wrapped up because to be honest with you, I think the best sex I have had, has been usually when I'm not worried about orgasm at all when it doesn't even come into my mind. And when I'm just totally present to enjoying the little things right? Just Just the moment that the little the little touches the the momentum, the emotion, just being fully present to the feelings and the sensations and like the other ness like feeling into you, for instance really feel in your presence, your skin on mine. All Exactly. All those little things, I think really make it for me. And when I worry about orgasm, or when I think about orgasm where I'm like, trying to get to orgasm it just yeah, it's it just kind of kills kills the experience. Would you agree or not?

Jen Li: 5:02

Yeah, I'm with you there. Because anytime where I feel like I get inside of my head, I'm not present. I get inside my head thinking about who I forget that orgasm. And also in the same way I feel a pressure to feel more like a woman.

Vlad: 5:21

So sorry, you just basically saying like you sometimes feel like inadequate because you're supposed to be feeling some sort of like big spiritual Overture of like, the completeness of your femininity, like during sex and you know, that whole thing is that is that close?

Jen Li: 5:39

Yeah. Yeah, there's

Vlad: 5:42

almost like a pressure of that, too. It's like, we have a pressure of like, Oh, you gotta have orgasms. And then there's the pressure of like, Oh, my God, like you're not this sacred, divine feminine self that you could be.

Jen Li: 5:54

Yeah, yeah. And I also know how great it feels. sexes is a lot of different parts of the exploring play fun. intimacy. And, and yes, there's an aspect of it that is about exploding in your own power, you know, when you have that orgasm, and that's what the conversation a man and I have had, it was really, really enlightening to open that space up, because now spirituality in this age is focusing more on the cell. And I really respect that.

Vlad: 6:42

Yeah. I think again, for me, it's interesting. The whole kind of dichotomy between you know, orgasm, or just being present to, to kind of bear witness to all the magic of the full magic of the sexual act. When we were younger, perhaps when we were children, we may be had a very different attitude, with sexuality and perhaps through pornography and just kind of desensitization, we gained a very different attitude towards even our bodies, right? Certainly, for me, there was this aspect there. You know, when I was younger, I would be embroiled in fantasy. And when I started kind of having sex it was it was a very different mind frame. For me, it was totally non pornographic, it was very like sensual. explorative. And over time, especially through the conduit of pornography, I think it's become a lot more utilitarian of just like, I'm doing it to come or I'm doing it for this or that or Heck, I don't know maybe I've even had sex sometimes with or rarely where I don't know why I'm doing it. Because I feel like an artist or something. So there's, there's a lot that's steep there. There's a lot that surrounding I think the act a lot of kind of verbiage, a lot of thinking a lot of storytelling that we aren't really aware of all the time, perhaps what do you think,

Jen Li: 8:20

like you're saying, I guess our our reasons for having sex is sometimes muddled with different different ideas of what it

Vlad: 8:33

should be competing narratives.

Jen Li: 8:35

Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah, cuz

Vlad: 8:40

I think, I think again, like going back to what, and I've made me sure it can be different for everyone. But I hope that everyone is able to experience just being totally present, and not feeling like they have to get somewhere, you know, just exploring, like slowing down. Like we do that in our life, right? through meditation. Sometimes, when we talk about mindfulness and being present day to day, it's no different in the bedroom, it's the same thing. Um, it really does take to something to slow down and to be mindful and present in the bedroom as well. Because there is also like this oversaturation, right, of trying to play out fantasy or to get yourself off or like to have a very specific set of like, what would you call them triggers play out in a certain way that we're used to. Do you get what I'm kind of getting at? As opposed to just being present and open to exploring? Yeah.

Jen Li: 9:57

Would you say that you got off more from now novelty or from what, you know works? Or is it? Is it almost the same? I don't know if it was a blend between the two?

Vlad: 10:09

Probably for me, it's less, less novelty. But again, are we talking about get off in terms of just orgasm? Are we talking about like, really, really enjoy the sexual experience? The full breadth of the sexual experience? Because I mean, I would

Jen Li: 10:31

say I would say, for the orgasm.

Vlad: 10:36

Well, for orgasm, there's definitely certain things that I think get me there both sensation and like, yeah, maybe mental picture wise, for sure. Things that I've gotten used to things that my body have gotten used to Yeah, so

Jen Li: 10:53

it is, it is what you get used to, because again, like we know, our bodies the best. So if we know what gets us off, yes, it's a thing that we we go to resort to easiest, like our fantasy roleplay or the fantasy, or even like a something that we use to stimulate ourselves in the same way or no, it gets us off.

Vlad: 11:19

And we build up. Right, right. It's like, it's it the pathways reinforced. So within our brain, it's like we've done it, it feels good, we've done it again, we're like, Okay, this works, I'm gonna keep doing it exactly like this. And you've just reinforced that over a certain time threshold, you have to keep doing it that specific way. Because I think the most efficient way for you to do it. And maybe maybe there's other ways, maybe there's so much more out there that we don't even gives ourselves give ourselves a chance to experience

Jen Li: 11:59

What's something that you want to try. Like, for me, I would like to try doing it. In the dark, we've been doing it quite in the light, frequently. Which is nice, because I get to see ourselves and it's really, like the audience is really nice, but I would like to do things.

Vlad: 12:28

Dark. Yeah, pitch dark. Yeah, it's interesting, because it's almost like a psychedelic experience where it helps you go inside. When you're in darkness, or when you close your eyes, you have that kind of more connectedness with yourself. You're not bombarded with other stimulation. So I agree, I think that'd be really cool. For me, I think like I really want to try just really slowing down. If not Tantra, per se and like the old breathwork stuff, which which which I also very much want to do and explore is just slowing the fuck down like, almost to a crawl where I just want to explore your body in almost a quasi non sexual way. Do you know what I mean? Just like really lean into the intimacy and, and not make it just about whatever penetration or whatever that is. Yeah, just just really slow down so that I can re re experience your body in a new way in a new light. Like to me I think that's really exciting. Oh, yeah. Because I think I get like, like all as I get caught up, right? It's like, you kind of start to do things and you start to get desensitized, and I never enjoy that feeling. I'm always trying to throw like, a wrench in the spokes of my own mental conformity.

Jen Li: 14:03

Well, this isn't the cleanest sex podcast. My parents will ever listen to listen to that, but even if they do, it's quite clean. It's

Vlad: 14:13

great. Yeah, I mean, we can we can do a dirty one next time. There's

Jen Li: 14:21

my nervous. What else?

Vlad: 14:28

It's interesting, because, you know, we were having dinner with your cousin, or lunch with your cousin who was in town. And, and you said some term or no, she said some term she'd say, Oh, this is my fit. And you're like, Oh, honey, that means like her style. And you're like, you know, he's a little bit older. He's He's a older generation, so he wouldn't, which is funny because no, I don't write like I have no idea what the quote unquote kids are up to the These days, even though I have the internet, but I don't look that stuff up. I don't know. I don't care. I

Jen Li: 15:05

appreciate. Do you appreciate it when I do that, of course.

Vlad: 15:09

It's wonderful. Yeah, give me the lowdown. But it's, it's called t nowadays to UK wonderful. Um, I, I also wonder like, you know, I've seen statistics and I haven't really verified them. And I don't know how accurate they are. But apparently, people are just having way less sex, like, especially the younger generation. Is it because of COVID? No, this is pre COVID. Apparently, there's just way less sex happening. People, whether it's due to social media or whatever, or video game I don't know they're just engaging in less sex apparently, relative to the baby boomers and like the the 60s generation there's just a lot less connection happening a lot less relationship law, it's

Jen Li: 15:59

so hard to believe because like Tinder and all dating apps are giving more convenience. Right hookups. Transmission, so like,

Vlad: 16:11

maybe people are hooking up more, but maybe they're, they're bothering less. Do you know what I mean? Like when something becomes almost too easy or too commodified? We value it less

Jen Li: 16:21

could be right, because there is that right? It's distracting. I remember when I don't know about you, but when I was using dating apps sometimes, especially when I wasn't seriously looking for a relationship. I was just browsing. It's just, you know, what do you call it a little boost

Vlad: 16:39

in nature? Sure. And you just go on there scroll a couple of two little

Jen Li: 16:43

guys. You know, actually, that's not that's not me, but I have I have done that. So maybe I don't want to call it I don't want to clean record.

Vlad: 16:54

Yeah, I don't really have experience with that. Because I was married for basically the last, you know, thing I logged down. And, and then afterwards, I was like, wow, okay, he's dating apps. And Funny enough, that's how we met but I think I use them in a very different way than perhaps most people use them. For the record, like I don't hook up, it's not something I do. I'm super introverted. I could care less. It's like when when I meet a woman I'm like, I might find her sexually attractive. But to me, the eroticism comes from like, the weight and the longer you make me wait, the more interesting and erotic I find it.

Jen Li: 17:42

And are you going to say the weight of the woman was like Wow,

Vlad: 17:47

that is very politically incorrect. Harsh. I mean, that's important to know like a girl that's fit I'm not gonna lie. She took you to the sauna honor was a second date, third date to scope out these gay half naked in the size

Jen Li: 18:10

plans on any man who wants to, I don't know why you use scoped out the goods to get her to her skivvies and see what she has in her arsenal. Yeah. Then you take her to a spa? brushing spa? Yeah. No, it's a sauna. That's right. So you can share the room with each other.

Vlad: 18:36

Yeah. I couldn't.

Jen Li: 18:39

I I thought it was quite clever.

Vlad: 18:42

Yes, it was quick. Um, thank you. So dating apps, dating apps? Yeah, thank you dating out. I was a fish out of water. And then I got on. And I was like, wow, this is really interesting. Um, but by that point, like I'm, you know, nearly 40. And I wrote, I have a son. I really know what I want. I'm like, very, very certain of who I am, who I am not what my non negotiables are. And that's what I lead with. I think most people don't do that with dating apps. And and maybe it's great for hooking up maybe, but but like, for me, especially would

Jen Li: 19:21

you have that? Would you have a desire to hook up? Even if you had a standard? Like say, I'm assuming you would have a standard if you want it to hook up. But is that even part of your nature to

Vlad: 19:33

do that? No, I don't really care about hooking up. I never have the only time that I have hooked up, which has what maybe in like mid 20s, I actually went through a period where I was like, You know what, I've never done this. I owe it to myself to try it. So like, I'm going to become a player like this was going through my head and I was like, I want to try this. And I was dating I think three or four girls at the same time and hooking up with all of them at the same time and like it was a complete disaster because I couldn't remember who told me what and the conversations were all getting mixed up. And it was just, it was a nightmare. I was like, I didn't have the energy and I was I was really doing like performative sites. I wasn't really into it. And I was just doing it because I told myself the story of like, this is what guys do. And so I didn't really enjoy it. Like I was never really fulfilled. And and I probably pissed them off because they're like, What are you talking about? Like, we never went there and who like what I found my cousin like, it's just a night it's

Jen Li: 20:37

funny for me, because sometimes I tell things to Vlad. And he'll forget though so like, I'm gonna manage three girls is just did not work. areas, circus doctor? Yeah, I can't even imagine,

Vlad: 20:51

you know, spinning plates, as they literally call it spinning plates. But for me, I'm not very good. Everywhere. And I'm like, Oh, God. Yeah, I'm like a mess. So I'm trying to clean it up. I do think that there is something to this thing about something that's commodified and to readily available like as human beings, we generally just devalue it. We don't care. Like if there's so much of something that it's abundant. Whether we initially wanted it or not, all of a sudden, we don't really care, right?

Jen Li: 21:27

Yeah, I find that that takes place from the beginning of the day. Not just not just during the conversation when you first meet them online, but where you meet them. Physically, how you start talking to them, either on the phone or over video in person, what the environment is, you know, whether or not they they drive you home, whether or not they open the door for you. There's all little things that matter. I'm not saying that you have to do these things to have a successful relationship. But a lot of these little things add up to how we set the precedents, or the quality of relationships that we're looking for, and how we want to be treated.

Vlad: 22:20

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Um, what would be a marker to you of like something that would turn you off when you need somebody? And they're making themselves too available? Like the commodity is too abundant? What would that look like for you? You know?

Jen Li: 22:39

Can you give an example? Well, that's

Vlad: 22:41

what I'm kind of saying. Like, what is it? Imagine you and I met? Yeah, what would it look like for you where you're like, oh, something's just off about this guy. Like, there's just too much or he's too available like us, too.

Jen Li: 22:59

Yeah, I

Vlad: 23:01

was too available look like, because I think a lot of guys really struggle with this, especially today when I

Jen Li: 23:09

first date on a first date. A couple things, a couple of flags go up from me, which is I'll just name them as they come to my head. One if they only want to talk about themselves, or even if they only want to talk about me. Like there's no back and forth. So too much interest on me or themselves without a flow in between. It's not a lag per se but it is for me. It doesn't leave a visit a revisitation in the conversation. I'm not really that interested. There's no interest here.

Vlad: 23:56

Yeah, like for me, for me, it's um, if if a girl just is way too into me, and it's way too early, and I'm like, I'm like you don't you don't really know me. You don't know me to be that into me. And you're like spilling the beans about your whole life and like, how much you actually funny enough So is this a humble brag? No, this is not a humble brag at all. Yeah, cuz it's nothing about me right? flex here. She's so intimate, but. But that's the thing about it is if you're not into me, and you don't know me, you're not really into me. There's something else going on there. You're the one that's too available. Do you see what I mean? Like you're a commodity, that there was an overproduction of and if enough like I don't have to fight for you to if there's no mystery there then it's like there's something wrong with this situation. So you're instantly devaluing yourself.

Jen Li: 24:56

I like what you said about mystery because part of the reason why I've, I want that flow of interest in each other's lives in that first conversation, our first, our first in our first date is because it leaves mystery. It's not focused on all the things that I do, and it's not focused on all the things that you do. There's a little bit of mystery for us to explore. And it also, it also makes us feel like we have to earn, you know, earn that little day and time for us to talk to each other. And connect. I like, I like what you said.

Vlad: 25:40

Yeah, absolutely. Um, so a little anecdote, like, before I met you and we dated I went out on a couple of dates with this girl and she was really wonderful, like a very sweet girl, right? Really nice girl. But I experienced this kind of overabundance of attention, affection, like almost right away. We talked on the phone for a bit, and it was kind of like, instantly like, oh, like, you're amazing. You sound so amazing. And it's like, I like I love words of affirmation. Who does, right? But before you really know me before we're we've really built that deep rapport. It's just, it's coming off a little bit too strong, too soon, too fast, right? red flags. So I actually had like a very open discussion with her about this. I was like, Hey, listen, where is this coming from? Maybe it's coming from a little bit of internal neediness? Yeah.

Jen Li: 26:40

And it's also really weird that like, because she doesn't know you that well, she may have painted a picture on a pedestal, you reminded her of someone as well, you know, that she could, she could feel safer with or feels more connected to

Vlad: 26:59

give them tools. You know, when you were saying, Hey, this is like a really safe kind of podcast for the future. I wonder what people want to hear like, you know, I've got a brand, I've got a personal image, but I'm also an open book. That's who I am. And I don't mind being that on here, either. That's kind of what I want engaged,

Jen Li: 27:17

I hope that people can share with us what they'd like to hear from a couple. A couple that is doing this work, you know, really discovering what it takes to have a long term relationship that's creative, and different. We come from a, you know, traditional families, but we also have an untraditional family ourselves. You can write in a DM the comments, let us know what your questions are and what you'd like, you know, what you'd like to hear from us.

Vlad: 27:58

I wanted to say that I think our superpower within our relationship is our honesty, right? Is how open our communication is, we're very open, we're very honest with one another, we set a precedent for that very early on. I've said it to you, I'm happy to say it publicly over and over again, like I've never had the experience of being able to be so heard, and been given so much space without judgment, to to express how I feel, where I am, who I am in this moment in time, in every moment in time. So I really appreciate that. And I think it makes our relationship really strong. And I also think it gives kind of maybe to some people who might be interested in access to how things could be a we're not perfect, but we're very good at figuring things out. And you know, I go on Reddit, and I'm on the relationship forums and it's, it's uncanny. How many of those posts like 90% of them are coming from a place of, oh my god, this thing happened. Or my partner said this or did that or I want to do this, what do I do? And the first thing is always like,

Jen Li: 29:22

talk to them. Yeah.

Vlad: 29:24

Right and say, well talk to them. Your partner said this, then you're you've constructed this, like, massive narrative in your head, just talk to them be like, hey, like, honey, you said this thing. And did you mean this and now I feel like this, like, people do so little of that. They're scared to talk to their partners, and oh my god in the bedroom. It's even worse. People just do not communicate. They're like, Oh my I have this thing. I really want to do this thing, but I don't know how my partner will react. I'm scared. It's like people are terrified of judgment. Oh my god. Yes. So much. So it's a real epidemic.

Jen Li: 30:06

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think that's why we we do get very far into our, our, even our own securities like what we are dealing with personally because we, we feel the need to and we feel the benefits actually feel the benefits of sharing that with each other so that our daily lives aren't being compartmentalised. Yeah, I think a lot of people when you talk when you, when you say that, like, a lot of people compartmentalize their, their lives so that they feel like they have to be strong for their relationship or for their jobs, or strong for their kids. And the truth is, you know, a lot of the strength that we hone into comes from, how honest we are with ourselves, and how honest we are with our partners and our loved ones.

Vlad: 31:10

Absolutely. And honestly, at least this relationship, especially for me, it's like, it's kind of fertile ground, I feel like I can be myself and I can kind of say what happened or say what I'm feeling, even if it's negative, even if it's maybe in relationship to you, and whatever, it doesn't always turn out perfectly, but I know is I know, I always can, I never have to keep it inside. And I think that's such a load off. Because if anything, what we should be doing in relationship is helping one another re charge right? There, safety is very important.

Jen Li: 31:51

When you don't feel safe, then that that should be both a journey with your partner and also an inward journey with yourself. Because safety is worked on from a past experience that you've been either traumatically given or you've experienced yourself, maybe that you you know, like you ran over someone or a dog and it could in it, you know, it affected your behavior. So that's all that's inward as much as it is to be able to share that with your partner so that they can know what's going on and support you.

Vlad: 32:41

Safety is just really important. Like you don't know, maybe you ran over a dog.

Jen Li: 32:47

Maybe like killing animals I

Vlad: 32:49

know. Yeah, so you're basically just projecting. Yeah, I totally

Jen Li: 32:55

kill the dog. I'll just leave it out there. Yeah, but I won't tell you what I've killed.

Vlad: 33:01

This mystery? Yeah. Yeah, maybe there's a part of me that likes to sleep with one eye open. That's the mystery part. Right? Right industry relationship.

Jen Li: 33:16

And ladies, that's how you keep it. Man

Vlad: 33:19

on his toes. Yeah, every men emitted or not like so little bit of crazy. It's like you just need a little bit like, because because to me at least that's like the divine feminine. It's like the chaos like the, you know, you know what ticks back there. There's like, something new every day. It's a gu

Jen Li: 33:42

about this, like, who wants to be with a person who is 100% responsible for everything, right? response sounds great. I'm like, yeah, I'll take that.

Vlad: 33:54

Yeah, yeah. But then you're bored out of your wellbore. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I'm sure there's people out there who love that, but perhaps they're asexual. Or perhaps not. By the way, this is incorrect. whatsoever. I mean, at least I'm not politically correct, perhaps Janice, but I'm not. So anytime I come on, you can expect me to be a little bit bombastic who's be myself,

Jen Li: 34:27

and I'll clean up after you. Thank you for being on this podcast today. We appreciate your listening and we hope you tune in again. Next time on the internet life.

Vlad: 34:38

Yeah, where I think we'll have some notes prepared and some interesting, salacious things to talk about. Right now. Goodbye.