Queer and Trans Pleasure: In Conversation with Dr Damon Constantinides, PhD, LCSW, CST

Damon Constantinides, PhD, LCSW, CST

Damon is a queer trans man and sex nerd who loves being a dad, teaching and talking about queer and trans pleasure, and growing plants as a way to connect with magic and the sacredness of the earth. He is trained as both a clinical social worker and a sex therapist and has worked for more than 20 years in the fields of trans and queer health. He owns a private therapy and coaching practice where he offers virtual groups and services to trans and queer folks all over the world.

Damon is a trainer for the sex therapy certificate program at the California Institute of Integral Studies and an adjunct progressor at Widener University. He is also the co-author of the book Sex Therapy for Erotically Marginalized Clients: Nine Principles of Clinical Support and his writing can also be found in the newest edition of Trans Bodies, Trans Selves. You can learn more about his work at www.drdamonc.com or on his IG @dr.damonc.

Links:

Individual and Relationship Therapy and Coaching -  www.drdamonc.com

Writing - www.drdamonc.com/writing

Trans Masc Sexual Pleasure Program - www.drdamonc.com/coaching

Trans Masc 30+ Connections Group - www.drdamonc.com/coachingsupportgroup

Queer Sexual Pleasure Program - www.drdamonc.com/qsp

IG @Damon Constantinides 

IG @wildpansycoaching

FB www.facebook.com/drdamonc

Transcript

Alex Iantaffi: 0:35

Hello, and welcome to another episode of gender stories. I know I will say that I'm excited, but it's because it's true. I just interview the coolest people. And today I have the pleasure to interview a wonderful colleague, Dr Damon Constantinides. Damon is a queer trans man and sex nerd who loves being a dad, teaching and talking about queer and trans pleasure, and growing plants as a way to connect with magic and the sacredness of the earth. He is trained as both a clinical social worker and a sex therapist and has worked for more than 20 years in the fields of trans and queer health. He owns a private therapy and coaching practice where he offers virtual groups and services to trans and queer folks all over the world. Damon is a trainer for the sex therapy certificate program at the California Institute of Integral Studies and an adjunct progressor at Widener University. He is also the co-author of the book Sex Therapy for Erotically Marginalized Clients: Nine Principles of Clinical Support and his writing can also be found in the newest edition of Trans Bodies, Trans Selves. You can learn more about his work at www.drdamonc.com or on his IG@dr.damonc.. And don't worry listeners because all those links as ever are gonna be in the episode description. So thank you so much, Damon for making time to talk with me today for gender stories. I really appreciate it.

Dr Damon Constantinides: 2:02

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Alex Iantaffi: 2:04

Yeah, it's such a pleasure. So, you know, I first became aware of you and your work when when your book came out, actually the, you know, the sex therapy for radically marginalized clients, nine principles of clinical support. And I know, it has been out a little while but you know, I think it's, did we say five years before the recording started? Yeah. But I still recommend it to colleagues all the time. I think it's such a great book. So maybe why don't we get started by talking about your passion for training providers and walk maybe motivated you to write that book? And? Yeah, let's take it from there have more questions, but I don't have to throw my questions all at once. So let's start from there.

Dr Damon Constantinides: 2:45

Sure, I can start there. Although it is funny, because it has been a minute. Yeah, so the so I got into the field of therapy by way of trans health care. And so I was doing trainings before I was doing therapy or coaching. And so I feel like the work that I've done since then has kind of been an extension of working with providers. And the book really was a project that came out of a presentation with another colleague, we would have case consultations together and talk about our work. And there were so many similarities among all of the clients that we had that word we use the term are erotically marginalized, but mostly like the trans, kinky, poly, queer clients have similar things happening. And so we wanted a way to be able to talk about that, specifically for the field of sex therapy, which is still working on expanding their inclusivity and diversity. And so that was, yeah, that's how the book came about. And I am glad that you recommend it, I do think it's a really good resource, especially for folks who are starting out or for folks who aren't in the field of sex therapy, but want to have a foundation for talking about sexuality with clients that they're working with. So and we wanted it to be accessible in that way.

Alex Iantaffi: 4:24

Absolutely. And that's one of the reasons I recommend it all the time. Actually, I think it's really accessible. It's really foundational. You know, I really love how it cuts across like, actually, there are some things that we do have in common as marginalized folks, you know, in the field, and here are some things that we really want you to think about. So I think that's a really beautiful model. And, you know, I know before kind of we started the recording, you were saying your focus has really shifted from educating providers to really providing more services to the community. So let's talk a little bit about that shift. And what prompted that shift from kind of your background of as a trainer and educating providers and trans health to actually be more kind of the provider of therapy and coaching and resources for the community?

Unknown: 5:15

Sure. Yeah. So I think it's relevant to me and that I came out as trans in my mid 20s. And I Trent, my transition really matched my entry into the workforce in This kind of interesting way. But I was identifying as non binary and then as trans masculine. In during that time, kind of like a, you know, a book, it was really focused on providers for other providers and felt like, I had skills and language and it was a good fit. And then what happened for me, which I think is pretty interesting is one of the things that happened was the pandemic, which really forced me to be working online. And I started to learn a lot about how I work in a different way, and found that that was just such a better fit for my nervous system. And so that was one way that I started to be able to be embodied. And that hadn't really been accessible to me when I was, I was working in Philadelphia, and three different offices, and it was just a lot of just wasn't very present. And then the other thing that happened that really shifted, the trajectory of my work was my own personal experience with bottom surgery. So because I have a PhD, there was a minute there in Philadelphia, where I was one of the only people writing letters for people who are accessing bottom surgery. Now, there's a bunch of people, which is amazing, and I feel so grateful for community. But there was a period where I was writing about a letter a week for folks. And so I was really interacting a lot with trans masc, transfem, and non binary folks who were looking to access bottom surgery of some kind. And through that experience, I just had like a moment one day where I was like, Oh, wow, I, I think I want this, which is really interesting. Because to me, because I had been very invested in not wanting any more surgery, and had top surgery in my mid 20s. And so it was a real it really changed how I thought about myself. And I had to do a lot of work to figure out what that meant, knowing that I wanted it. And I said this to you earlier that I talk about bottom surgery, because it doesn't bother me, I think like 20 years of sex therapy training, kind of, I have like a, just a different relationship, I think with with that part of myself and talking about it. And, and I know for logical, that's really hard. So I feel like one of the things I can offer is yeah, just like being pretty upfront and sharing what feels comfortable. So what I didn't expect was after I was able to access surgery, which is its own story is that I suddenly had all these openings in my life that I just had not expected, like I, you know, I work with trans folks, I like you know, I know all the things right that like it can impact your life and all these ways. And, and it was a different thing to experience and being like, Oh, I actually just am more comfortable in so many ways that have nothing to do with the actual surgery at all. And one of those one of those ways was like teaching and talking to trans folks about sex and sexual pleasure, which before, I have a lot of thoughts. I even written as a zine that you can get. It's on my website, I've written that before, like I had, I could write about it. But like talking about it, I just didn't feel comfortable. And so since my surgeries are done, what I really did was shift my practice to working with the community. And right now, mostly trans masc, but with like a vision to expand that. And yeah, like offering services around sex therapy and sex coaching.

Alex Iantaffi: 9:37

Yeah, and those services are so needed. And I do want to talk about the services you offer, because I think they're really wonderful. And like I said, essential. But first, I want to stay with this piece of the story for a minute because like you said, not everybody feels comfortable to talk about it. And actually, I don't think that from a trans masc perspective, we ever talked about bottom surgery from this perspective on the show. So if that's okay, you know, we touch base before the recording started. I like to stay with that. And one of the things I'm curious about is what teamed for you that made you realize this might be something I want for myself because often I know that even for myself sometimes I thought about it, you know, I've contemplated it out and then I'm like, Oh, I don't know there's a lot of risks with surgery. I've got Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, which then acts the risk with anything surgical especially around genital area and risk of potential prolapse, all that good stuff that I also need to consider, right? Nice intersection of being trans and disabled and older, you know, my, oh, we know maybe if I was in my 20s and 30s, I go for it but in my 50s Like, I feel pretty settled is that but you know, now and again, I think about it, and I definitely supported a ton of clients, we've contemplated that question, and I've come to a range of answers. But I think often clients ask me, like, how am I gonna know? Right? And I'm like, You're the only one who knows when you're gonna know, right? I can be here or the container, ask the questions, share the information I have within my scope of practice, right? But often there is this, what am I, you know, how am I gonna know? What is it that's gonna let me know that this is what I want? Does that make sense? And I don't know if you know, what was your journey like around this? Or if any of what I shared resonates in any way with you? Yeah,

Dr Damon Constantinides: 11:26

yeah, I'm happy to share both both how I got there. And, and before I do that, one of the things that I'll say to clients or people and working with friends and talking about it is, is like just thinking about it as data collection, which is how I thought about it, right. So it's like, collecting data for my experience. And now, I wanted to say that first I didn't forget it, and I'll get a reference back to it. But I think the thing that really like the moment where I was like, oh, I want this was when I met with somebody who was having phalloplasty, which is where they use a donor site to make a penis without any of the other surgeries. So like, there was no scrotoplasty, there is no vaginectomy, there was no urethral lengthening. And those last three surgeries all often involve a lot of complications. And so the idea that this person was getting surgery just to have the kind of sex that he wanted, felt like, just like such a gift, like I was so glad like he was doing that for himself. And I had never thought about that as a good enough reason for wanting to access surgery. And so it kind of unlocked a different way to look at bottom surgery. And, and I do share this because I think there's this idea that trans people wants to spot cancer, if you're accessing a surgery, you're doing it to be as safe as possible. And I knew that that wasn't me. And so I just assumed that those surgeries were not for me, because I was not interested in his body. i That's not my experience. And I know for some people is I don't want to, like, diminish or minimize that. But for me, it's not. And so just this, like freedom to really think about what I wanted to have my male body was was really eye opening. And so that was the moment and I like I was pretty freaked out about it. And like immediately talked to I like one friend, who's also a sex therapist, too, has really like listened to all of my musings about this over the last five years to like, help me get to where I needed to be. But I was like, Oh my God, what do I do? I think that I want this. And then that's where the data collection part came in for me was like, What do I want, right. And so I, I did things like try different packers, which I'd never done before and was like, and like, I tried different prosthetics or toys, I like thought about myself in different ways and about my body in different ways. It took a lot of writing about it. And it was really kind of like trying all these different ideas to come to a place where I knew that I wanted it and I knew what, what I wanted. And so I'll I'll name that. And I just I, I just did a free live event about considering bottom surgery where essentially, essentially a list of all the questions that I asked myself getting, like that's essentially what it is. But like really trying to figure out what was important and also not just what was important to me and my body, but also what was important to my life. So you know, I mentioned in my bio that I'm a dad, and that's been the most gender affirming experience I've ever had, which I did not expect. And I when I started out on the bottom surgery experience I had either she was either five or six. And so one of the things that was important to me was that I wasn't gonna be missing from parenting for a very long time. And when you're having surgery, and you're very inward focused as we need to be, and so part of my decision making wasn't, wasn't just, it wasn't just what I wanted. It was what I wanted for for myself in the context of my family, and so I like to name that because I think a lot of times people think that they're that you shouldn't consider that or you should only think about something this way and not that way. But just wanting to like, think about a meal holistically, like, you know, if I had been 21, I, you know, or 25 with resources on insurance. But I might have made different decisions. But I wasn't, I was 38. And I had number 30 has almost 14, you know, and I had a kid and I, I made decisions that were best for me and my life as it is not as if that makes sense.

Alex Iantaffi: 16:17

Oh, that makes so much sense to me. And I love. I think. I mean, in some ways, it's kind of it feels a little I'm having so many thoughts, I love first of all, you describe that it's a process, right? Because often, that's why I say to clients as well, I'm like, it's not a one and done, right? I mean, yes, for some people, they're really clear about what they want. And they've already done all the research. And that's wonderful, right? But for folks who are like, I'm just starting to think about this, I need to decide, you know, there can be a sense of urgency. I'm like, That's okay, we can take a minute to explore what you want, and what their options are. And, you know, if you have questions, this is a good time to explore those questions, right? You don't have to be like, 100% Sure, because can we ever be 100% sure of anything. But, you know, I encourage people to engage with it as a process. And I also encourage them to think about all the different aspects of their life, like besides this moralistic perspective, right? If I think even about my experience of top surgery, right, I had a when my oldest was, like, seven years old, you know, my youngest hadn't come into my life yet. And this was back almost 14 years ago. And now she's, she's 20. Now. But you know, and I was thinking, okay, when do I do it in the year, so that's, like, you know, good for me, but also good for my family and making sure that there was community support, because even though I did have a nesting partner, you know, when you put parenting and caregiving, you know, and holidays, because I did it right before Christmas, because that was a good time for me as an academic at the time. And you know, that there are lots of things to consider. And so I was thinking, What about support for my family while I'm healing? Right? And? And also, how do I talk about it with my kids and make sure that like, she understands what's happening, and that she can ask the questions she wants to ask before and after, which she did have questions right, before and after. And so I think that it's something that often people are like, you know, I just want to think about it for myself. And I'm like, That is great. And also, let's think about, you know, when might be the best time for you when might be you know, do you have the support that you need all those kinds of questions. And I love that you said that being a dad, and being a parent has been such a gender affirming part as well. I would love for you to say we'll be more about how parenting being kind of gender affirming for you in some way. bit like process of elimination. Like, I did not come into a trans mask identity with us, I carried a lot of shame. I carried a lot of trauma. And like being a man felt very precarious. And it took me a very long time to be like, Oh, actually, I have the binary trans identity. It's a very long time. And so in some ways, they just think it's like a first time where I was like, Oh, this fits and I don't have any reservations about it. Like it just so I think it was in some ways more of a somatic experience. And I one time I went to a workshop Ignacio I forget his last name. Oh, Ignacio Rivera? Yeah, I love their work so much.

Dr Damon Constantinides: 19:38

Yeah, it was a trans wellness conference. And it was about being transparent. And it was before I had a kid. And now she was free was that like, there are lots of ways that we parent and that being a transparent isn't just about having a kid. And and it was very, I was like, Oh, right. And I was at the time running the trans youth group, local LGBTQ Center, and like working primarily with trans youth and like, there were so many ways in which I was parenting. And so it was also like, Oh, this is I don't know, the way I think about it is this is probably because I have my own experiences that required me to parent as a young person, but whatever at this point, now, it's like a tool that I can use to help other people and like, share it as kind of like, this comes naturally to me and so how can it like support People who don't naturally have this energy, dad energy.

Alex Iantaffi: 20:42

that makes so much sense to me, you know, I don't know if that's how you identify. But as a parent, if I child I'm like, I think that's where a lot of my skills as a therapist, I'm probably, you know, or anything I do, and there are times that I'm like, but I was like, Well, that's what we do as humans, right? We take what we got, you know, and partially part of it is trauma, which led to like being a parentified kid, but also part is like, that's for some of us, too, right? We managed to develop this kind of more nurturing parental parts of ourselves. And definitely a more, it's very interesting in our family, I think gender roles are very kind of mixed up in different ways. There are ways in which I'm definitely you know, I was the gestational parent. So in that way, I'm the mom, in some ways to my oldest, but in other ways, I definitely have more of a traditional dad in that like, kind of the main, you know, breadwinner for our family. And I was not the person or was always available for like, if the kid is sick at school, or because of my job, actually, you know, my coparent is much more likely to be the one kind of, you know, doing drop off and pick out and he also just has this very even though is this, this man has this very warm mom quality for one of a better word. I'm definitely more than like, rile up the kid before bedtime, kind of. And so I think of when thinking about parenting and genders. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr Damon Constantinides: 22:09

And I guess I want to, like say to that, to that, I think part of what being a dad, a trans dad that I enjoy is actually the queering of it. So like, we just had this conversation. My kid and I, she's, she just turned 10. And I was doing I always do her hair. Because I always have long hair. And I always I know how to do hair. And I did costume design, I know how to write like, I was also very faggy part of me, so maybe it's more like fag dad, can really bring up in that moment. But she was like, yeah, when kids ask me about my hair, they're like, I told him You did it. They're like, all surprised. And she's like, but sometimes they can maybe they need to get there. But But yeah, so I don't know, there's something that feels freeing about it, which I don't actually think makes a lot of sense. Because I know, like, I just I know that I know, cognitively that sometimes those parent roles can feel really rigid for people, for whatever reason, I can very lucky that that was just not what I like. I think maybe excited to separate myself so much. From my past experience. I was like, like it to just make it up. And like there was a real freedom.

Alex Iantaffi: 23:21

That is so beautiful and so expansive. And, you know, often when I work with clients, that's what I want for all of them trans or cis or non binary, I'm like, you know, yes, we do have all this like familial and cultural and social and historical baggage when it comes to gender in so many different ways. And, you know, I, I mean, a lot of my work is about this, I truly believe that that expansiveness can be accessible to all of us. And one of the ways is to really move away from this rigid says federal, you know, mono normative ideas about like, what does it mean to be a man or a woman, a dad or a husband or a wife, right. And as he says, that folks kind of struggle with that rigidity to when, and there are studies that have shown that they also don't, you know, really benefit that they're armed, often by those kind of more rigid binaries. So I love that you talked about that. So he given all of that while I was, you know, you talked about this process of designing around bottom surgery. And I loved what you said that there was a moment when you realize I couldn't do that just for me, just for me to access, you know, even more embodiment, more pleasure in my own body, having the kind of facts you know, that want. And that is really beautiful. But then the was the process. At which point in that process, did you know that you were ready to move forward? Because that's another question that people often have. Okay, I keep looking at things. You know, I'm like, 98%. There. When do I know that I'm ready, right.

Dr Damon Constantinides: 25:00

Yeah, I don't I don't remember the moment that I knew I was ready and that I had made a decision about what I wanted. But I I know the moment that I realized I was ready was that the way my health insurance is through my partner. And there was we thought that my insurance will be covered when doesn't matter if something happened on July 1. And on July 1, that didn't happen. And we found out we would have to wait four years and so Oh, I just kind of like lost. And like, I was so surprised by my emotional reaction that that was data, right? I was like, okay, that's data. And we, and we did a lot of, you know, in solidarity with people that have to do that, work with your insurance and do try to appeal it three times. And it's like a really humiliating experience to try to do and we met, we didn't get it covered that way, that we were finally able to get it covered in a in a different way by by communicating with your job. And that was a real deal. So I didn't have to wait four years. But that moment was like, Oh, okay. This is a bigger deal than I want, knew it was and, you know, wanted it to be because I didn't want to take up space. Resources, I didn't want to take up time. But I need it.

Alex Iantaffi: 26:30

I thank you for sharing that. I'm sorry that you had to go through all of that, because it is a really heartbreaking, humiliating process for a lot of folks. You know, I was really lucky with my top surgery that was covered under my work insurance at the time and, you know, covered in full in. But I've supported a lot of folks, including friends with appeals, and now, exhausting. And also insurance is not always clear of why, you know, there's just a language that they use that if you're not immersed in health insurance world all the time, and clients or even friends go, I don't understand this should be covered under my policy. Why did I get rejected, right? And because I'm a provider works with insurance, I can look through and go, Oh, they use this loophole, or they use that loophole right here is how we can address it. You know, that? You know, often it is that moment where you're like, well, maybe I can't do this, that really, you know, even when I work with clients, who sometimes are like, I don't know, I think that transitioning is ruining my life. I don't know, if I want to transition. I'm like, that's okay. You can stop at any point in time. And I am genuine when I say that I really want people to feel comfortable, like, you can be trans and never have to transition. If it's not safe in your world, right? You can, you will, you can start transitioning, you can stop like, I started testosterone and stop that. I mean, I'm on like, I think my third round over the last 15 years, you know, and it's not like, it's not like I start on a stop in three months, right? But it's like a start. And then I'm like, I think this is enough change for now. We get to make choices over our bodies, right? And so sometimes when somebody gives us permission to be like, you have to do this when it's like, no, I want to do this. I'm like, Okay, let's look at what's, where's the distress coming from? Right. But yeah, that helps. I love what you said about just like centering. You can do this just by for yourself, right? I think so much of gender affirming care, and especially trans health care is views is viewed for this kind of cis gays, right? Like, even when I remember when I was going for top surgery, a lot of people going Oh, so you're going to be a man now? And I was like, well, not really. Because that's I mean, I think my masculinity is so not into binary masculinity that I'm like, Yes, I guess I am a man in some ways, but not really like, right. But I think there is this idea that, Oh, you're doing this to assimilate into cis ness, right? You're doing this so that your body can be more like a cis body, right? Because this this body is the standard as far as my mind can would say about the white body. I'll say the CES, why table body raise the standard. So I, I'm just really curious about what happens when we move away from that and just get to do things for ourselves. So can you say a little bit more about what happened with that client, when you were like, Oh, you can do this in a different way. You can have bottom surgery in a different way, right? Because I think people are like, this is what you do. And you need to make sure that it's exactly like similar to kind of cis genitals and there are no other options. But actually, there are a lot of options for both transmasc and trans femme folks, I think. Yeah.

Dr Damon Constantinides: 29:46

Yeah. Are you asking like what my experience was with that person?

Alex Iantaffi: 29:50

Either you can either be what your experience was like, what was it that unlocked for you or it can be more general, we can also go in the direction of more generally, like, people don't realize that it's not like, now I'm just making my body into a cis body, they basically, whether it's your bottom surgery, right? And actually, so we could even talk about all the different options for bottom surgery that people may not be aware of. So which direction feels best for you?

Dr Damon Constantinides: 30:18

Well, I think I think though, I also want to mention this idea. I think this is adjacent that you have to like want to have to be suicidal to access transforming here. And I think it was really that piece actually that like was, or you have to have like extreme dysphoria, right? Maybe not. Maybe not suicidal, but extreme dysphoria for something you should have access to. And that wasn't I didn't have, you know, like, I had clients that can't use public restrooms because they're just for you, right? That's not my experience, right? Like, I've had clients who aren't able to, like really struggle with sexual pleasure, because of their dysphoria. That, you know, there's definitely some some, like, distancing myself, right, but it wasn't that experience. And so I think just like, yeah, like watching him make that decision, without extreme distress, and feeling so confident in it. And I felt great about writing letter, right, like, always writing letters. Like, I don't keep keeping. And so just like having that that moment. And it's something that I like to share with people. And the other thing I'll say is, a couple of weeks ago, I had the opportunity to go to Camp Lost Boys, which is 150 trans men, summer camp for a weekend, which was really powerful as someone who doesn't often feel like I have so that that part was powerful, but I also really appreciate it. You know, somebody just like talking about how trans masculine people don't take up space. Yeah, right. Like, you don't take up space, you're like, you're a giver, you're a caretaker, your a service, you're in the human services professional, you know, like, but you don't, you don't take up space, you're like, very careful, and very cautious. And of course, those are generalizations, generalizations don't cover everybody, right? But I do think like, as a culture, like, that's stuff that feels that felt true to me, in my experience of trans mass culture. And in my experience of myself as a trans man, right? Like, I'm a man, but I don't want to be like, a toxic man. And I don't want to like be enacting sexism. So I want to, like, take up space, but I have too much space. And so I think there was that piece to around the surgery of like, oh, having to be willing to take up space, which was really challenging for me to do. I mean, you even heard me talk about it, like, I'll take up space. And I'll do it. So that I can be benefiting this person who was like, responsive, like I'm responsible for, right, like, and I don't feel bad about the mapping part of the narrative, right? But like that, like, that's part of that narrative about not taking up space, like,

Alex Iantaffi: 33:19

exactly, and it's good to have an awareness where, oh, my God, I resonate with that so much. And then sometimes when we take up space, or say that thing, then that can also be that backlash of like, oh, you're just like, you're just being a dude right now, or you're just being a man. And then that creates even more, at least for me, like, okay, like, shrink back into not being threatening, right? Because there's something about that, like stepping into assertiveness, or taking up space that can also be very quickly labeled as like, oh, that's toxic masculinity, right? Either from other people or internally. I've also worked with clients where like, I just don't, you know, even somatically, right? Like, let's let's really experience like, finding this right place, you know, not inflated, not deflated, just right, you know, just the right amount of space. And I've had so many trans masculine folks go, Oh, this feels so good semantically, but what if I take up too much space, right? And no thing, even just the fact that you worry that you might take up too much space? probably means you're not a toxic man. Like most most men who take up too much space, don't think about it a lot in my experience, right. I think you're right, that can be so much kind of reticence. And I think that's relevant in thinking about I'd love so many other things use. You said that when I go into a lot of different directions, but I think the direction I'll pick is around the centering of pleasure, that you seem to be kind of moving towards in your work, right? Because in a way, kind of when we do things not because of the distress. I'm really glad you mentioned that because same I was like, Oh, do I have enough dysphoria? You know, how much dysphoria is enough dysphoria, you know? Or even is, we're still centering this kind of the must be something distressing about being trans. That must be something that hurts rather than I just actually want to be myself and feel embodied and center expansiveness and joy and pleasure. And that should be good enough, right? For anybody, right? Like this is gonna help me lead a better life a more expensive life, to feel more embodied to be more settled to access, more connection and more joy, more pleasure, including sexual pleasure right now. I think there's such a shift when we can come to this place of like, making choices from this place. So there's that part of what motivated you to start things like the trans masc sexual pleasure program, for example, and to really, you know, to go in the direction of being a sex therapist, right? You could have just said, that therapists to work with all sorts of issues, including facts, but you did specialize as a sex therapist, which in a way kind of makes sense, then that they would run a group that it's about sexual pleasure, right? Making sense. But tell me a little bit about that journey. And that choice of centering pleasure in your work.

Dr Damon Constantinides: 36:11

Sure, I mean, it's interesting, like the road to being a sex therapist, and some, in some ways, that's why I put like sex nerd as the second thing in my bio, is that I just find it really interesting, perhaps it's like, you know, and that is always been true about me. Like, even though I wasn't the person having the most sex, like, that wasn't, that's not the role I played in high school or college, but like, I was the person who was like, most interested in it. And so, you know, I don't know, it was that trying to figure out myself, probably that was part of it. For sure. The sexual pleasure, the sexual pleasure program, and just in general, like wanting to bring that into my work, it's just, it feels like, it's really like a paradigm shift that I think is really challenging for people. And I think can be so powerful, like when, when we like stop trying to do things because we're supposed to, or that's the way it's supposed to be, and instead are like, really curious about, like, what feels good. And I think that in terms of gender, in terms of sexuality, and in terms of just like, you know, like our experiences as humans in general, like, experience and pleasure. And so, like, I feel like academically, that's always something I understood. And I taught and you taught people to teach, but it wasn't it was like having my own experience right now feel like I can sit better with people as they're on their journey. So the trans masc pleasure program is like an eight week it's virtual small group. We do it online, we have picker, small group conversation, I guess, ready curriculum, which like really, like my PhD is in human sexuality education, actually, like that's, like that's so my jam. And just getting some really walk people through this internal reflection. It's like reflection, growth and like, kind of plan. And this idea of also relevant is that when I think about trans experience, I think about how gender diversity and trans folks have existed across time and across culture. And so just really trying to pull it out of always being compared to systems. But like, what if instead, it's just like, another option that has no pathology around it? And it's just like, some, you know, like, whenever, when I used to work, I don't work as much with teens, but when I used to work almost only with teens. And when I would have parents that were upset about is their, their kid trans the first place I would go to is like, tell me what that means to you. Right? Because then we see transness as human diversity and not as pathology then why not let your kids see what it's like to use a different pronoun? Yeah, what an amazing opportunity for them to like, know themselves, right? It's only when it is seen as a pathology. She was like, really unnecessary to me. I don't know. I don't know if I'm naive, or it's just how I have to, like, hold it in my head, but like, it just seems unnecessary to. And so in terms of like, like pleasure and and sexual pleasure, right, like, so, so much of the emphasis on certain people so often struggle with that shift of like, How can I enjoy sex? I can't have sex that way. Whatever that way is in there. Right? And so the program is really like, designed to start to help you shift your paradigm to the one you want, which might not be the one I want. And that's okay, too. Right. And also to do it in a group, right that that's what people I like to geek out on my curriculum or whatever. But what I over and over, heard, that it's valuable because people trans mass people are getting to talk to other trans man So people about how they think about it and what they do and how they feel. And one of the ways that I route my work as a, as a sex therapist, as a therapist, as a coach is really like, rooting into like, both my ancestors and trancestors and like my lineage, like my sexual pleasure, lineage, my trans lineage like, I, before I did that, I just felt so alone all the time. And as I started that, as a spiritual practice, I was I've been more able to be like, anchored and grounded. And so when it's like something that I try to offer in, in, like, as a tool for people that I work with, is helping folks to get out, like, what is what does that look like, for you? Like, and, and, in one of my groups, I had this, like, amazing experience for one of the participants was like, because I do it as an activity, like we like make a list. Right? And he was like, I think we just get to be that for each other for the next eight weeks. And like, we were, like, yeah, we get to be like each other's mirrors and reflections and models and like, like that as a gift of being in space together? Those a very long answer to your question, but, but

Alex Iantaffi: 41:57

it was a beautiful answer. Absolutely. And I love what you said, because as somebody who also very much as you know, I see my work as part of like a healing lineage. And I do and even when I do education, or speaking, I really always like to lean on ancestors and gender blast ancestors, you know, transgressors. Specifically, when doing this work, and, and I think it does give it an expansiveness that is different than because also, Project clinically, that is such a deficit and lack model, right? But if I'm approaching as in, like, humans have always need healers, because sometimes we're hurt we, you know, we're home, but we get hurt, you know, where we are whole human being, we're not broken. I truly believe that. And, and I often talk about that with clients. And we don't live in a world culture, because of colonization because of white supremacy and a black man's patriarchy. Right. And so I feel like, it's not about fixing in air quotes, you know, broken and airport again, is really about like, wow, we live in a really messy messed up world with all the systems of oppression, of course, you're gonna feel it in your body and your soul in your mind. Right? And so how can we hold the container of healing for each other and, and that peer support is so essential, I truly believe that we heal in community. Right? And you know, you do so I love everything, you've just said that you do both therapy and coaching. And you know, that coaching piece allows you to kind of bring people together in a different way. Now, just beyond kind of, you know, in a way, he asked beyond the geographical boundaries of your license right? Now, also, the coaching work is different than therapy. So for people who are maybe, like a little confused, because, you know, there are a lot of coaches, and there are a lot of therapists, and then there are some therapists who do coaching and some therapists don't do coaching. And can you take a moment just to explain to listeners, like how your therapy and coaching kind of differs and how you think about in a different way?

Dr Damon Constantinides: 44:02

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So. So there's there's two ways that I kind of talk about how how it's different concretely, and one of them is that my coaching work is not trauma work. And so most of the therapy that I do, not all of it, and I'm trained as a clinical social worker, and I'm a certified basis, or certified sex therapist, certified sex therapist. And a lot of the work I'm doing is trauma, it's relational. It's, like family oriented, it's and so that is, and that's like, somebody comes to me, and I'm like, What's up? Like, what's coming up? Like, where are we today? What's going on today? And it's a pretty organic experience of healing. And I'm not saying that healing doesn't happen in my coaching work. It does. And I'm also not saying that people don't come to my coaching recruit have experienced trauma because No,

Alex Iantaffi: 45:08

of course yeah, I've seen both therapists and coaches and I've worked with different people.

Dr Damon Constantinides: 45:17

And so the coaching I work is more is more structured. So I've worked with with folks as a coach just in general like really like life coach, but like, maybe like pleasure coach, or and more specifically around sex coach And so that it's like a little bit more structured, it's a little bit more focused, it's a little bit more. There's like a few more worksheets. I don't do the actions don't do that with my therapy, like he's doing any, like, worksheets, I won't do it. But like with my coaching, I'm like, Oh, I have the best questions to ask you to think about before you come in. So that we can try to like make happen when you talk to me about wanting to shift and change from a more goal oriented? Yeah, that's kind of how I think about them differently.

Alex Iantaffi: 46:08

That makes a lot of sense to me, I think about in very similar ways, like coaching is much more structured than on a specific topic, usually. And it is much more outcome oriented, where versus therapy. I do want some outcomes, but the outcome is more process oriented, right? Yeah. Like, you know, I'm centering my client needs, I accompany them to where they want to go. And it's so much broader the work that therapy, in some ways compared to the work I do, I can do when I do any coaching. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. And

Dr Damon Constantinides: 46:42

I wouldn't name like I have the

Alex Iantaffi: 46:42

I love that because often there aren't a lot trans mass pleasure program, which is a coaching program. Two other things that I've been that I've been doing to I have a trans masc 30 Plus connections group is what I called it. Yeah. And it's a little bit like a support group. But it's a little bit different, because it is a little more structured, we come up with topics together. And that's like a 12 week group. And again, like, the feedback I get is just how great it is to be in community. And almost every time I run that group, the folks in the group have formed their own, whatever, by the time it's over, like they have their discord, or they have their I don't know, I don't know what I you know, like, I'm like, please, like, the whole idea is they want you to be connected to connect with each other and feel good. And then the other thing that I've been doing is this sexual pleasure program. And I've actually been running it as like, as just like a mini, like a mini program with couples or struggles or individuals who just want to do this work with me, which is really similar to the, it's like, I feel like the tools I was using for the trans masc Like, they're really, really relatable to people who have a trans or queer experience and feel like their sexuality and their identity, and their experience hasn't been centered. And they're not getting enough of what they need or want out of their sexual. So those are the other two that I've also been offering. THe queer one that's been really fun to figure out how to make that a great resource for people. of places that people can go to access that kind of information, education or support. Yeah, right around the queer pleasure. And it is a beautiful segue, because I was like, oh, we should talk about your other programs, and then brought them in, and I was like, beautiful. That's exactly where I was gonna go next. Right? So I'm really glad that you have those programs, because I often see, especially when people come out as queer, maybe a little later in life, you know, they're like, Where do I even start from? How do I even know what I like? Or what I don't like, while you know, I'm terrified to have queer sex for the first time? Because what if I don't like it? Or what if I'm supposed to do certain things? And I don't know how to do them. Right. And now there are actually more resources, you know, even so I think it was them. Or one of that online magazines or the article on like, how to finger somebody, right? Or how to fist somebody? I remember. I mean, when I came out, I don't know, a long time ago, almost 30 years ago. Now. There wasn't a lot of information about queer sex, you kind of Yeah, we all kind of fumbled with each other, you know, often, also, after a few drinks at the gay bar, right? It's like, just not really an ideal way, honestly, in my books to find out about pleasure, right. And so there are more resources, but I think there is a need for more. So tell me about what you've noticed by doing those programs in centering pleasure. What kind of shifts have you noticed, or what kind of things people come in with, like, where the folks who come and join, for example, the queer sexual pilot program, or any of that kind of that kind of work?

Dr Damon Constantinides: 50:07

Yeah, I mean, the people who've been interested in it well, I guess I'll first say that I think that there is also something really unique about queer sex versus gay sex, but lesbian sex, sexual sex. And I also came out a very long time ago. And there were lots of really great lesbian sex books and yeah, was the idea. And even I was that I was fitting into I was a baby danke it worked out well, I'm really glad I had access to those resources. But they were very specific. And a lot of the, you know, it is different have a queer, queer experience where you're, because it's not just the like, the way that I think about it is it's not just who you're attracted to. Right, but that you're really invested in shipping different, right, like, doing it a different way. Right that like, and, and so just like naming that, that is, it's going experience, and there aren't as many resources for that, because it is a little bit hard to capture. I know that, that you've done some great resources and MJ Barker's web site. Yeah, which I like often refer people to, and to really appreciate it. And so in a way, you know, like, like, speaking of like, lineages, right? Like I like to be building on the work that you've done, and that you all come together. And kind of like, how do ways to like, translate that and offer that in this other. Like, it's like a different way of like, learning, right? And so the people who've come, I'm interested in people who are in long term relationships, or like, you just want something different to be happening, people who have never had sex before, and I like, I don't know, what I want to do. People who have a queer identity, and maybe started out in a different place, like maybe from a gender transition, or just the experience of a sexual orientation transition, and are like, I don't really know where I am now, or what I want, or people who are like, Oh, this has been sex is fine, but I don't actually want it to be fine anymore. Like, I want to put some energy into this, how do I go about doing that. And so even those, those are all really different experiences. The beauty of what I've done it as a group, right is like, being able to hold each other in those different experiences. And then when I deal with folks individually, I get to really be like, Okay, let's really focus on your needs and wants and build this space together. So that it at least

Alex Iantaffi: 53:00

that is so beautiful. And thank you for the kind shout out and, you know, I really hear your that the building of the, you know, kind of building on the work that's come before, but also our different queer sexes, right? Because like you said, yeah, and there were a few things first, like this kind of, you know, this resource doesn't really speak to me, I remember really, when I discovered kind of Pat Califia writing, and then Carol Queen, actually, I think it's The Leather Daddy and the Femme right was like, that was the one that rocked my world. It was before I was trans. And I was like, This is the closest I've ever come to like, feeling like, I'm not like the only person in the world to feel how I'm feeling. And to make sense, but of course, they're both kind of pretty kinky, you know, very keen focus, and not everybody, it's not accessible for everybody, for some folks that like, when step too far from where they are, or it's not something they're interested in, or it's not their experience, right. And so in a way, kind of having a space, like the space you're creating for people to really think about, what do I want my experience to be like? What, what happens when actually the way we're back to the beginning, right? What happens when we let go of this gender binaries that trap us into certain role, because for me, queer sex is very much about like, letting go of those gender expectations, and not fall into those roles that, you know, culture, and society really wants us to fall on really easily, right? It's like the very few times I like they did fin folks. And just because I'm usually attracted more to Muslim folks, but one of the conversations like, Oh, I think you're trying to do some gendered flirting thing that's not working for me, that's not the kind of masculine person I am. And then it's really interesting conversation, right? Because some people are like, well, then I don't know what to do. And I'm like, that's, that you need to understand that I'm not responding to you the way you want me to respond to you because this is not a turn on for me. You know, and it's not, it's just not a dynamic that I feel comfortable with. And just because I present in this more masculine way, it doesn't mean that like, I enjoy, kind of, you know, I was like, we were both kind of family. So we'll have to figure this out. Like, you know, as a trans faggot, I'm like, yeah, if you do this, like Butch femme dynamic, I'm not the butch so, right. They know where to go with that. And to me, that's queer sex right. It's like, queer sexuality where you're like, you can just assume you're gonna know where I'm gonna fall, just because I looked a certain way. And I don't know if that's something that comes up when you work with folks like that, that can be dissonance about like, this is the way I feel about myself. And this is the way I access pleasure. But then there are all these expectations, right, that are put on us. So am I making sense? Or like,

Dr Damon Constantinides: 55:57

yeah, what's coming up for me? Again, it's just a little bit adjacent his his how often people talk about how hard it is to make it. Right, and so that like, that, like sis, folks, and gay and lesbian, sometimes have these scripts that are available. And, and that it's a lot of work to make it up. And so I, I feel like I'm like, Cool, we get to make it up. Like then there's like expansiveness and possibility. And I've learned that I also need to be like, let's talk about what it's like that you have to make it up. Right to like, make space for that. And then I do think that part of what I have to offer is like, Here are some ways you can make it, right, because it is pretty overwhelming to like, to really come up with it by yourself and figure out like, what your sex is gonna look like, without any guidelines, or guidance, right. And so I don't actually be kind of fun to write up a specific thing. I don't have that. But like, but a lot of the tools that I offer are essentially helping people make it up for themselves with like, support, right? Because the is the daunting? Absolutely, yeah. Especially if you don't have experience talking about sex as most people don't, right? We're thinking about it. Like you don't have any of those tools. You don't have, like a pleasure model for what it could look like. It's, it's just like, it's hard work.

Alex Iantaffi: 57:35

Absolutely. And it's a work of like authenticity and vulnerability, and also that countercultural work that it's okay to talk about sex actually, like, this does not need to be a taboo subject, right. Which also leads us back to parenting, you know, like, we brought up our kids in a way were talking about sex in a way that's age appropriate, right, that change over time. Also, we need to be prepared to have a different conversation with our kids of five that are 20 years old, right? Those are going to be different conversations. But you know, I was really passionate about being sex affirming, because I've even been brought up in a pretty sex negative culture where, you know, it wasn't quite gender divergent, but close alone. Have you ever seen that program by you know, the grandma takes a flower and like, French adapts in front of the child and those like, can you put it back together? Just like no. And it's like, similar for virginity, right? And that's pretty much how it was inculcated in me as well. And so I was really passionate about bringing out kind of kids in a sex affirming environment, where they're the location that was age appropriate, where they knew that they could talk about it. But it's so countercultural, right? Even, you know, often, and it's reinforced for popular culture, right? Like that, oh, you can talk about sex with your parents or with your kids. And you don't want to know if you're, if they're having sex, or if your parents are having flags. And I'm like, why not? Like, what is it with our culture that we can accept that this is, you know, because often and there is a piece about accessing sexual pleasure for queer folks as well, because I've also worked with people are like, well, you know, it's really hard for me to have sex if the kids are in the house, even if it's like a night and the doors are closed, right? Or is it like, just this kind of a no contraction that happens around and almost anything with queer sex even more so? Right? It's like, something that has to be really, really removed from the kids. What if the kids you know, see two people of the same gender like kissing or even like, or even the soul like kink or pride, tire discourse that comes up almost every year? We're coming up to, ya know, I'm like, I've heard the same argument for 30 years, you know, I'm somebody who's always brought like, my, my oldest, she's the one who's been with Nero life to pride since she was like a baby. You know, and it's fine. Like, you know, if you see people dressed in kinky outfits, it's like, that's an outfit just like cosplay, you know, like, and yeah, so some people feel sexy when they dress that way. You know, some people feel good about themselves when the kids are younger, right? When they're a little bit older and they understand what feeling sexy means you can make some people feel really good. It makes them feel good about themselves. It's grown up play, right, but I think people have so many hangups and I think that's part of the issue right in some way that you don't consider talking about sex as just a normal topic of conversation.

Dr Damon Constantinides: 1:00:42

Yeah, yeah. And I, I think that it's been a real gift that I lack in this direction professionally, because I just got so much practice that it just doesn't. It's like there's like an ease. And I forget, I do forget sometimes that other people don't have that. But I will name also that I live in a community, you know, that make different choices for where we end up, right. And we always give up something. And we always like to get something right. And so I've given up and made intentional choices to be in a very affirming community. And when I have bottom surgery, everybody, yeah, I live on a block where everybody knows that I'm trans, and they're supportive. They all knew I was having bonding surgery. And they were like, my kid knew all my kids friends knew her teacher knew, right. And like, what I did is I taught people how to talk about it. And I did it because I didn't want her to come into school and say something and her teacher to freak out and not know how to navigate it, and therefore shut her down and shame. And so ever. It was a three year process, it was three different teachers that like, during the parent teacher conference, I would say, in April, I'm going to be having a surgery, this is how we talk about it. This is the language that we use. This is my expectation for the classroom. I'm here to answer any questions right now that you have about it. And just I really set it up is like totally normal. And I think that was like a real gift for not just my kid, but for like, our community that it was just seen as something really normal. Because it is not like random. And I think that is related to like, just like the arachnophobia or like the fear of sex in general. Connected to you know, the transphobia homophobia like it can only like if it's not bad, then we don't need to be afraid of it. And it is a skill to talk about it age appropriately. And I wish we had more. I wish people had more access to those resources because there are I mean, there's some I mean, Cory Silverberg some books oh my god, amazing. I love clothes books. Yeah. And like such a gift. And yeah, like I, you know, and though, and hopefully there'll be more and more, right. Like, there's definitely more than even when my kid was that she was two there was like way there's there's so much more now. But But yeah, I do think that that is something that is hard for

Alex Iantaffi: 1:03:20

parents. Oh, absolutely. And Cory Silverberg books are so good. I remember, with our oldest way to do a lot of translating. So we found, you know, the best books we could like, it's perfectly normal, and those other books, that kind of my age, but then we had to do a lot of addition. And even as we got to the third book, she would do her own right, oh, they're not talking about trans people here, or they're not, you know, they're making this assumptions, you know, because, you know, and I think that's a big part is like, how do we normalize talking about pleasure in every way, and also that pleasure, and I think that's very anti capitalists in some ways, right? Because capitalism doesn't want us to center embodiment and pleasure. It wants us to buy pleasure, right from other sources, because that serves capitalism, but actually free learn that we can, we can access pleasure in any moment, when we drink a refreshing glass of water on a hot day. Like, oh, a shower, when you be like, outside and getting hot and sticky. hugging a tree, you know, eating a ripe peach, and having delicious queer sex. There are all different ways of accessing pleasure, right? But that doesn't serve capitalism. And so it makes sense to me that it's not in the current over cultures, interests for us to normalize talking about pleasure, and now we can be accessible, and now we can be embodied and, and access all of this in any moment. If we are. If we know that we can, right.

Dr Damon Constantinides: 1:04:53

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I, I also, I feel like one of the things that I would do is actually write in those books. So like, it's perfectly normal, like, my own little like, black Sharpie, like, yeah. And Tango Makes Three is a little bit pathologizing. So I went in, I went in, I fixed it, right. And so I mean, I knew that just to give parents permission to do that, that like, you know, like, you can, you can just fix it. And then now now, that's what's normal for your kid.

Alex Iantaffi: 1:05:29

Exactly. And, you know, kind of and we know just for our I just want to add just for folks who don't know, that actually talking about sex with our kids like an age appropriate way as the graph doesn't make them upset sooner. It doesn't make them explore and like, because actually they know the answers. And so they're no rush to grow up. You know, when I prepare my kids would like hear. So it's like, if you have all the information, you don't have to like whisper about it on the playground, right? Because and so it takes away that curiosity that maybe put some young people in even dangerous situations sometimes, right? If they're not aware about manager. And so I've because I think sometimes parents are worried right of exposing their kids too early, but actually often say, if you haven't made it really common, you know, because I like not to use the word normal, but normalized, to talk to your kids about sex by the time they're 10. After that, it's too late. And people are like, wow, and I'm like, Yeah, because your kids are gonna go through that awkward phase where your parents are the last people. And most of my kids definitely went through, they're like, Yeah, I can talk about this with anybody to talk about this with any adults, and usually is that middle school age, right from hand 11 to 1415, sometimes a little later, they're not going to want to talk to you about it. But if you've already given them the basic information, the resources that eventually you know, they get out of that awkward embarrassment, they can come back around to it, I know that you can be a resource. But if you miss that window, I think it's really hard.

Dr Damon Constantinides: 1:07:10

Yeah, and, and I think I feel like comprehensive sexuality education is something that I can't believe we're still talking about. But I know. I mean, like, it makes sense that in a country where we, some people don't believe in science, right? Because it is, it's there is like data, right? Like the badass what that is. That is how people have the best experiences with sex. Because when there's comprehensive sexuality, education, and sometimes they do in the past, I've done my parenting workshops. And one of my favorite questions I like to ask, particularly people with little kids and babies is like, what kind of sex life do you want your child to have? When they're in adults? And people? What do you mean, I was like, what because what that looks like, when an adult starts like now, it starts now with their understanding of your body with like, dispelling shame, with like, meeting them where they are, right. Like, that's how they're going to have whatever sucks, like, you're hoping they'll have this in adults.

Alex Iantaffi: 1:08:11

Absolutely. And it starts with us having done our work, right. I remember writing this column for by Community News, I was still living in the UK, about the, you know, being loud during tax. Now, that was a parent, right? And like, not like, what does it mean? Oh, my God, what if you know, so many parents are worried? What if my child over hears me? And I mean, at the time, my kid was a baby, so hustling wasn't even an issue. But I was starting to think about it, like, well, well, yeah, maybe I was even just pregnant. It was very early on in my parenting journey. And, and that's one of the things I was thinking about is like, well, what if my child overhears, like, that's okay. Like, sex shouldn't be pleasurable, right. It's like, it's not a dirty thing. It is not a damaging thing. Actually, it's only a damaging pain. If we frame sacks as that, and you know, that has to be kept kind of private, and we don't talk about it. And actually, that is really sets kids up to being vulnerable, potentially, for sexual abuse, because right, they've learned that this is something we don't talk about, and we keep secret, then when that kind of child sexual abuse happens, which we know is widespread, and they happen, they they're very vulnerable to an adult say, this is private, you know, don't tell anybody or don't tell your parents if it's not a parent, or don't tell your you know, anyone else because it's a secret, right? And then it's reinforced by society. And so it's not just, it's actually potentially damaging. And I think it forces kind of this culture of Stranger danger when we know that danger is mostly inside the home. Oh, my God, I feel like I could have I feel like I could do all other podcasts episode on parenting, and maybe we should maybe we should think about doing one of those because I do have a lot of feelings about it. But I want to be respectful of your time. So I always ask the guest, is there anything we haven't talked about? I know we went through other different directions, which was really fun because you do a lot of work that's really close to my heart, and I'm so grateful for your contributions to the field. But is there anything that we haven't covered that you were hoping to talk about today?

Dr Damon Constantinides: 1:10:32

I think I just want to brand new and like, like a deep importance of intersectionality, which I haven't haven't really used that language to talk about today. And it feels important to me, because so much of the work I do is like on the shoulders of disabilities, black indigenous color, like, just like naming that the way that I work, or the way that I'm reaching the world is not that that like, I think it's like, if we like really look back to the title of that book really kind of radically marginalized, right like that, like, we are, like these, the experience of organization is this really connected, and like it needs it needs to be and so when I'm, when I'm doing, you know, what I'm doing sex coaching with somebody, and like, all of that is in the room. If we're talking about transphobia, then we're also talking about all these other experiences, and now they're connected. And I love that you brought up capitalism and like, brought that in, right? And, and just like kind of holding that, like, I feel like naming that that big frame. This isn't that sexism separate from that. And neither is transmits, right, like, those are, those are connected. Just wondering that. And then the other thing that I really want to name is that I really do feel like, the more that I bring magic into my work, and like sacredness, like the more I'm able to offer and the more people are able to get out of it. So just like naming that frame of like, I do think of humans as sacred and not just humans, but life. But like if we're gonna get specific, like transmis and weirdness, and that there's something like so beautiful, in those experiences that have gotten so covered up by the experience of marginalization, and love when we get to, like sink in and really find it again. Yeah, that's

Alex Iantaffi: 1:12:45

really beautiful. And they're really Yeah, that speaks to my soul, as well as somebody who was like really integrated different aspects of my work more and more over the years, you know, which, that's come from a place of privilege. As I've become more senior in the field, I feel less worried about like being the whole of myself, right. And also, as they've been more and more trans and queer voices and just more expansiveness in the field that made it easier. And I love that you brought the framework of intersectionality. Because absolutely love what we talk about is so impacted from our lenses, but even more so from those systems of power, privilege and oppression, you know, that it's we cannot talk about sex or, or gender without talking about those other aspects. 100%. So thank you for bringing that in. Well, like I said, I could keep talking with you, they feel like your work is just so wonderful. And you know, talking of which, you know, I will have all the links in the episode description. But if people wanted to find out more about you your work where you offer, where should where should they go? Where should they look for you? Sure.

Dr Damon Constantinides: 1:14:00

The easiest place is my website, which is drdamonc.com. Turns out my last name was a little much to have a website. And so that's where I have all my offerings. And I tend to do my groups two to four times a year, and so there's always an opportunity to sign up to the waitlist. And so if you if you do that, for any of the groups that I offer, you're then the first people that I turn to when I open up the next, like the next cohort under registration. And then the other places on my Instagram, which is dr..damonc And that those tend to be the two places where I post things. I do have a newsletter. I'm on my second year of the newsletter, and it's usually it's usually one to three emails a month. One to two of them is usually some writing piece that I've done around queer, trans pleasure. And then the other one is often something about whatever I'm offering that month.

Alex Iantaffi: 1:15:23

Dear listeners I hope that today, you've resonated with some of our conversation that this is gonna lead you to think about where you find your own pleasure and whether you are trans or queer or not really inviting you into expansiveness and joy and finding a way to access your own embodiment and your own pleasure. And so until next time, take care of yourself and I hope that you find some way to feel pleasure today.