with guest Michael Roderick

Michael Roderick is the CEO of Small Pond Enterprises which helps thoughtful givers become thought leaders by making their brands referable, their messaging memorable, and their ideas unforgettable. He is also the host of the podcast Access to Anyone which shows how you can get to know anyone you want in business and in life using time-tested relationship-building principles. Michael's unique methodology comes from his own experience of going from being a Highschool English teacher to a Broadway Producer in under two years.

Find out more about Michael, book and courses here:
http://www.smallpondenterprises.com/
LinkedIn
Twitter

Joe Bukartek empowers people to live intentionally. As host of the podcast, Intentionally Ever After [www.IntentionallyEverAfter.com], Joe is an ultramarathon runner and pickleball enthusiast, living at the beach with his family as part of his own curated intentional lifestyle.

As a board certified Intentional Lifestyle Coach, Joe helps individuals to have lives and careers that are wildly more fulfilling. Ready to curate a life of intention? Connect with Joe on his website [www.joebukartek.com] or LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/joebukartek/.]

Joe also helps emerging adults build lifelong success beyond the nest in his specialized program, Intention to Launch. This results-driven partnership guides participants as they prepare to leave home and discover their ideal lives. Ready to launch? Check out [www.IntentionToLaunch.com]

If you would like to have your own intentional conversation with Joe, either on or off the air, visit https://www.joebukartek.com/contact

Check out more episodes at intentionallyeverafter.com

Transcript

00;00;06;23 - 00;00;20;12
Michael Roderick
And I find that just being reflective is one of the best ways to really see what what's working. Where do I want to go? Where do I want to invest my time? How do I want to handle my time? All those things.

00;00;20;29 - 00;00;35;12
-
This is intentionally, ever after. Join intentional lifestyle coach Joe Booker Tech for a series of personal conversations and coaching sessions with various people about how living with intention shows up for them.

00;00;38;10 - 00;00;52;14
Joe Bukartek
Greetings, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Intentionally Ever After. Today I am very delighted to be speaking with my friend Mr. Michael Roderick. Michael, welcome.

00;00;53;09 - 00;00;55;04
Michael Roderick
Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

00;00;55;26 - 00;01;01;17
Joe Bukartek
Yeah, I'm excited to have you here as well. Michael, will you kindly introduce yourself to folks?

00;01;02;23 - 00;01;29;21
Michael Roderick
Sure. So my name is Michael Roderick, and I run a company called Small Open Enterprises, which helps thoughtful givers become thought leaders through the creation of referable brands. So a lot of people within the thought leadership space, in the expert space deprioritized the packaging of their intellectual property. So I help them put those packages together, come up with ways to make their ideas more memorable and referable.

00;01;30;19 - 00;01;37;23
Joe Bukartek
Well, that sounds very intentional to start blending in the theme here. When did you start this venture?

00;01;38;25 - 00;02;14;06
Michael Roderick
So I have had Small Pod Enterprises company for a pretty long time, I think. I think I started it back in 2008 or something like that. But when I first originally started the business, it was mostly geared towards the entertainment world. I was doing a lot of work in produce that I was developing a lot of foods and projects and things like that, and eventually it morphed into more of a consulting business that focused on teaching, networking and sort of helping people on the whole like relationship building side and all of those types of things.

00;02;14;19 - 00;02;44;05
Michael Roderick
And then probably about five or six years back, right around right before the birth of my first daughter, Juniper, I realized that just the whole sort of teaching networking side of things really, really hard to sell it just like didn't really work from a business model standpoint. So I decided to experiment with thought leadership, and I started to dig deeper into what is it that gets people to talk about us when we're not there in a good way?

00;02;44;19 - 00;02;56;14
Michael Roderick
And I discovered that there was a lot to this idea of referrer ability, so I just completely shifted gears and started focusing on recoverability and haven't really looked back since.

00;02;57;11 - 00;03;04;06
Joe Bukartek
So present day, what's what's the way that that shows up for you and your business as far as how you help folks with this?

00;03;05;17 - 00;03;48;23
Michael Roderick
Yeah. So I run a mastermind called HitMakers and basically a lot of people within the thought leadership worlds who are subject matter experts, they kind of fall into the category of being like a Destiny's Child where we've we've we've heard of them, but they're not and ordered the giant that you have to have of the hits. So what I do with the speakers is I bring subject matter experts together and we stress test these big ideas and we develop these big ideas into hits and something that I love doing, I love helping folks who have big things that they want to do in the world, really package those ideas and make sure that they are

00;03;48;23 - 00;03;56;01
Michael Roderick
accessible, influential and memorable. And that's that's one of the ways I support folks that I work with.

00;03;56;18 - 00;04;01;04
Joe Bukartek
And are you doing this on a one on one basis, in a group setting? How does that typically show up?

00;04;01;28 - 00;04;29;25
Michael Roderick
So HitMakers is a group program. It's a it's it's a group mastermind. But I also do one on one work with coaches and consultants who in some cases are building out their own intellectual property. So they're trying to figure out what is their framework, what is their big idea, how are they sort of showing up in the world, making sure that they are packaging things so that they are seen as more than just the expert in the area.

00;04;29;25 - 00;04;37;16
Michael Roderick
They're seen as the leader within that area where people are like, I want to follow your stuff. I want to listen to your stuff, that that type of thing.

00;04;38;13 - 00;05;01;06
Joe Bukartek
So it sounds like a handful of years ago, you you made a pivot of sorts and started experimenting. And it sounds like also there's a there's some semblance of that with what you do with your clients is you helped them to experiment with these these big ideas. Right. So in terms of the name of this show, what does it mean to you to live intentionally?

00;05;02;12 - 00;05;32;22
Michael Roderick
Mm. So I think living intentionally is about thinking about where you want to go. I think all too often we sort of like allow ourselves to just be swept up by everything else that's kind of happening around us. And, and sometimes that takes over our life and that takes over our business whether whether that be the things that people are sort of expecting of us or the things that we're sort of chasing or sort of trying to do or trying to be.

00;05;33;08 - 00;05;54;20
Michael Roderick
And I think living intentionally is when you sit down, you actually ask yourself, well, what is it that I actually want? Right, and what would I prefer to be doing? And then look at your life and say, Well, what am I doing with my gut to you? And that is going against that. And what am I doing in my current situation that is going for that?

00;05;54;20 - 00;05;59;07
Michael Roderick
And then make those choices about the things that you keep and the things that you let go.

00;06;00;24 - 00;06;12;18
Joe Bukartek
So you gave a great example of that as far as shifting a business trajectory a number of years ago. How about for you, the man, the person? What does it look like for you to live with intention?

00;06;13;17 - 00;06;38;08
Michael Roderick
Yeah. So I think that it's paying attention to those things outside of the business. So I remember during the when when the pandemic sort of first hit and we live in New York, so where, you know, we were like super locked down. Like we're not talking and talking small potatoes, right? Like it was you couldn't leave your house sort of stuff.

00;06;38;26 - 00;07;08;26
Michael Roderick
And I had before that much like all the time. So whether I was out there speaking or whether it be I was going to events or I was asking myself, they were actually very rarely nights where I was home and home for dinner. Right. And sort of home for that like family time. And then, of course, when lockdown happened, there was no option to do that.

00;07;08;26 - 00;07;51;13
Michael Roderick
Right. That wasn't a possibility. So we started as a family having dinner together, and I had this realization of how much I had sort of missed out on that. Right, and how I was sort of away from that for a really long time. So now that things have started to open back up, I'm actually very, very careful about that evening time and what I booked so that I can be here for dinner, be with the girls and and I spend my list and just being present, you know, at home.

00;07;51;26 - 00;08;11;19
Michael Roderick
And I've made it a point where, yes, I can get invited if I wanted to tomorrow to things that would easily fill my week and fill every single evening. But now I say no to significantly more of this work than I probably have ever done in my life.

00;08;12;12 - 00;08;19;00
Joe Bukartek
Yeah. Do you have a hard and fast rule as far as when you say no to an event or an invite?

00;08;19;25 - 00;08;50;12
Michael Roderick
It's it's tricky. I mean, it's I don't know if there's anything that would be a ha that I'd be like, Oh, that's a hard and fast rule. But I do look at the I do pay very close attention to the number of occurrences right. So like this week is, is a little bit different where I have two friends who both have events in the evening that I have that I have committed to.

00;08;50;12 - 00;09;08;15
Michael Roderick
And this is probably one of the first weeks in a number of weeks that I'm going to two things on. You know, on the evening, in the evening time, I'll usually only go to one if we're really turning that I didn't go, I would not take that third thing on.

00;09;09;10 - 00;09;21;25
Joe Bukartek
Okay. So so it seems generally like there's a rule of one. You got to one rule, right? And two is within the range of acceptability, but you're going to vet it. And three is like now there's really it's got to be something extreme.

00;09;22;19 - 00;09;52;23
Michael Roderick
Yeah, I just and and I've I've gotten to that point where I've kind of gone I've run the gamut. Right. There was a period in my life where I would take meetings starting early in the morning and meet with people until late in the evening. Right. And then go out and and go to cocktail parties and do all the things and I went that process of being always available for the rest of the world.

00;09;53;05 - 00;10;21;29
Michael Roderick
Right. And then I saw what, like it's available all the time. All the time. And I shifted things and changed things based on what I had discovered. And again, going back to what we were talking about before, what I wanted. Right. And I basically just asked myself, like, do I want to feel rush do I want to feel like nothing's able to get done or do I want to feel frustrated about all of these things on a to do list?

00;10;22;13 - 00;10;34;28
Michael Roderick
Or do I want to feel comfortable and in control of my time and that one won't right from the other.

00;10;35;13 - 00;10;50;01
Joe Bukartek
Yeah, that makes sense. I was going to I was wondering if you could answer which one. One, but so so thank you for clarifying. Yes. When ended up pointing out of course. But you've also alluded to the fact that it can change and shift and maybe with the passage of time, different phase of life or after having tried something.

00;10;50;13 - 00;10;56;03
Joe Bukartek
So it sounds like for you at least, living with intention is something that you just keep tabs on. Is that fair to say?

00;10;56;27 - 00;11;27;05
Michael Roderick
Yeah. Yeah, I think that e I think that one of our most important tools that we don't often use enough is a kitchen, right? We spend so much time learning about planning. We spent so much time learning about execution. There are productivity books for days, right? There are planning books for days. But when it comes to reflection, we've got maybe a journal and morning pages, you know, and that's about it.

00;11;27;18 - 00;11;55;28
Michael Roderick
But reflection is such an important part of the process, so I'm always reflecting on my experience. I'm always going back and saying, okay, how did that go? Did it go well? Did it go? What would I like to change? What did I what did I find was good? I'm always, always asking those questions. And I find that just being reflective is one of the best ways to really see what what's working?

00;11;55;28 - 00;12;00;29
Michael Roderick
Where do I want to go? Where do I want to invest my time? How do I want to handle my time? All those things.

00;12;01;22 - 00;12;12;02
Joe Bukartek
So it sounds like you're constantly being reflective. Do you have a specific process that you go through or do you feel like you're just constantly in a state of checking in as you're going through your days and weeks?

00;12;13;01 - 00;12;42;25
Michael Roderick
Yeah, so I have made it a point. You got ideas and really towards the end of the day, if the thing that I'm missing, right, if there are things that I'm like, Oh, you know what? This is happening a lot or this isn't happening enough, right? So, so often, look, the things I work in and basically say like, okay, if these things are working, why are they working?

00;12;42;25 - 00;13;10;20
Michael Roderick
And how do I have more of those things? I'll look at the things that are not working. I'll ask myself, okay, if these things are not working, what is causing them to not what is causing the problem, what is causing the issue? And there are any things within all of that that I can help. And then I'll just look, you know, where are the resources that can and that that I can tap into?

00;13;11;02 - 00;13;31;25
Michael Roderick
Are there books that I could be reading right now? Are there are there conversations that I should be having? Like, what are the things that that need to be addressed in order for me to move in the direction of more of what I want are or frustrating or other. Yeah. Anymore.

00;13;32;17 - 00;13;41;05
Joe Bukartek
Okay. So you're not able to sell a product to my listeners that's going to help them singlehandedly organize their reflections?

00;13;42;11 - 00;14;03;28
Michael Roderick
Yeah. No, no, no. I mean, the thing is and that I think is probably the most important thing about reflection is that I could give you a system, right? Like I can say, like do this, say this, ask this, you know, etc., but only a certain percentage of people are going to buy into that system and use that system.

00;14;03;28 - 00;14;27;13
Michael Roderick
And then anybody who it doesn't work for them or they're going to feel like feel like they're going to feel like they're not doing it right. And because you can't do anything wrong, if you are taking the time to look at what you're doing and just think about it, whether it be your jotting it down, whether it be you doing voice notes to yourself, whether it be you're just taking the time to sort of think about it.

00;14;27;26 - 00;14;51;20
Michael Roderick
You're doing more than 90% of the world because most of us don't reflect at all. So I don't think you need a system necessarily. I don't think you need a process. I don't think you need a course or, you know, a five step PDF. Right? I think you just need to say every once a while, I want to take a step back and look at what's going on.

00;14;51;28 - 00;15;08;10
Michael Roderick
Now, if you do it on a daily basis or if you do it on a fairly regular basis, you will notice patterns and patterns are very, very powerful. Right? We see patterns and we see, oh, okay, this is this is what's happening. I can see that this is a pattern. Then, you know, whether or not you want a pattern.

00;15;08;23 - 00;15;17;02
Michael Roderick
A pattern. Interrupt, right. And whether or not you want to change it. But again, I don't think there is a way to do reflection wrong.

00;15;17;25 - 00;15;20;28
Joe Bukartek
So as long as you're trying it, then it's successful.

00;15;21;17 - 00;15;22;09
Michael Roderick
Exactly.

00;15;23;05 - 00;15;42;10
Joe Bukartek
Now, I buy into that. The only adjustment I would adjustment I would make to make it match my own philosophy is that I believe that is a system. Right. And I think that you can continue to refine your system. One system might be, you know, every now and then I do think about what it is that I've done and how I might not make it better.

00;15;42;24 - 00;15;57;02
Joe Bukartek
I think that's a system that's that that person system. But I agree you can't force or expect someone to use what works well for you and expect it to work well for them at least consistently. Right. I think it's overly rigid.

00;15;57;19 - 00;15;58;24
Michael Roderick
Yes.

00;15;58;24 - 00;16;04;08
Joe Bukartek
Do you have a change in habit that you've made that has made an exponential payoff for you?

00;16;05;04 - 00;16;24;15
Michael Roderick
Yes. A while back I started working with a health coach and I had never done that before. And I had what would be considered arguably the worst diet a human being could probably have.

00;16;24;22 - 00;16;27;11
Joe Bukartek
Please, please give me an example. Go ahead.

00;16;27;23 - 00;16;59;15
Michael Roderick
Yeah. Oh, yeah. So I drank anywhere between 4 to 5 cans of coke a day on some cases, everything was fast food for the most part, or something. Just like fried and ridiculous. I spent most of my evenings gorging on desserts. I would never have a meal that did not have dessert. I actually considered a meal was incomplete unless there was dessert attached to it.

00;17;00;02 - 00;17;36;27
Michael Roderick
And I basically stayed away from anything vegetable oriented unless it had some kind of sugar on it. Right. Unless there was some way to to to make it taste good. It was sort of it was sort of the idea. So I met with this I met with this health coach, and she explained to me how when you have a lot of carbs in your diet, they're basically like the more of them that you have.

00;17;36;27 - 00;18;06;21
Michael Roderick
Like the more you sort of go overboard, the more problems you end up with. And in some cases, it's sort of like leads into like chronic illness and all this other stuff. And I looked at she had me basically track my my meals for about a week and and get to the number of carbs. So now the idea is that if you are between like 100 and 150, you're okay.

00;18;06;23 - 00;18;25;22
Michael Roderick
Like, it's it's fine. If you're if you're really, really low, then you're in the realm of like Quito and all these other sort of, you know, dietary processes. But if you were above 150, that was kind of not good. Right? And that was where you started to move into like inflammation and like all these different types of things.

00;18;25;22 - 00;18;46;23
Michael Roderick
So by the end of that week, I looked at every day and I think I was over 350 carbs a day, maybe more like it's just like out of control. And I had that moment. I was like, Oh man, that's that's just not good.

00;18;48;13 - 00;19;06;06
Joe Bukartek
So this is after you've already enlisted the help of a coach and then you found out you're an overachiever in this area, right? You're hitting 300 350. Yeah. What is it that actually caused you to reach out to another human to help you with this? I mean, I understand. Yeah. You know, you hit a point. Something's got to give.

00;19;06;12 - 00;19;29;03
Joe Bukartek
I yeah. Typically for us, that means I just got to do this. I just got to do that, right? You probably knew all the things. I just got to cut it down to two Cokes a day, right? Yeah. So what is it that that kind of forced that connection? Like, I'm going to enlists the help of somebody else to help me with this thing that I know I, quote unquote, should be able to do by myself.

00;19;29;28 - 00;19;57;20
Michael Roderick
Yeah. So I think what it ended up coming down, do was the health. When you are in bad health, it kind of disrupts like every other aspect of your life. So I was having I was having a lot of stomach problem was I was just always like I always had a stomach ache for the most part. Like it just always kind of felt kind of like I always kind of felt miserable even after, you know, I'd eat this food, I'm like, Oh my God, it's such good food.

00;19;57;20 - 00;20;20;07
Michael Roderick
I love this food, etc. But then I'd be sick, you know, and you know, or I'd feel like heavy and like nasty. And then I was super tired and all these different types of things. And I basically it was kind of like I just like there's probably a way to feel better. Like there was just that like inkling in my head, like where I was like, that's probably a way to feel better.

00;20;20;07 - 00;20;41;29
Michael Roderick
And I know that people have told me to do this, you know, and, and it's sort of the classic like my wife was telling me for years, like, you are just out of control, all right? And I'm like, Nah, that's fine. It'll be fine. It'll be fine. But you know how that is now. And this is just I got to see what I can learn here, because this is just not good.

00;20;42;09 - 00;20;53;23
Michael Roderick
And it wasn't until I sort of, you know, went through that tracking and sort of saw it like really in front of me, that I was like, whoa, there there needs to be a change here kind of thing.

00;20;54;20 - 00;21;08;25
Joe Bukartek
Yeah. So it kind of put a metric with just the feeling that you got, the sense that you got that also the physical feeling that you got. So it sounds like this health coach was able to get you from the three hundreds back to reasonable levels.

00;21;09;11 - 00;21;33;20
Michael Roderick
Yes. Yeah. So she was very good about sort of challenges. And I'm one of those people where it's like if you tell me I need to try and do something and you give me some like time bound dynamic of it, I will not let myself screw it up. Like I just like I get into that mode of like I'm not going to disappoint myself.

00;21;33;20 - 00;21;58;09
Michael Roderick
I just like I get into that place. So the very first thing she did was she challenged me for a week to have no soda and to only have seltzer, to have no sugar cereal, which I was always like doubting like any sugar cereal in the morning that I could possibly down and no fast food for a week.

00;21;59;05 - 00;22;01;26
Joe Bukartek
For this the same week. Oh, yes.

00;22;02;00 - 00;22;02;19
Michael Roderick
Restrictions.

00;22;03;13 - 00;22;03;22
Joe Bukartek
Okay.

00;22;04;04 - 00;22;31;08
Michael Roderick
Okay. And basically I, I was like, okay, I'll try. Ella, when she first said, I was like, there's no way she's not going to like, I don't know, like, this is just ridiculous. And I'll never forget, I started drinking seltzer and that last can of coke sat in my fridge for months. Like, I just never touched it. I just stayed away from it.

00;22;31;21 - 00;22;57;18
Michael Roderick
I still this was probably a year ago, maybe even more. I still have not had a bowl of sugar cereal. And I have I've had a little bit of fast food, but I, I very rarely have it. Like, it's a very, very rare occasion, you know, that I have it. That first week was crazy, you know, because it was just like, what is going, you know, what is going on?

00;22;57;18 - 00;23;18;23
Michael Roderick
How do I do this? But by the end of that first week, I already started to feel better. I was like, Oh, my stomach doesn't hurt as much this, doesn't it? You know, all these things are not bothering me, you know? And I basically just kind of kept on after that. And I was tracking my I was tracking my numbers again.

00;23;18;23 - 00;23;45;17
Michael Roderick
And I basically just, like, made that commitment to go down to that smaller level. So I think I brought it down to like like 150, you know, some somewhere around there ended up being my max that I was going for. And I really have not looked back like I'm I'm at the point now where I was probably to 15 when I first started.

00;23;45;17 - 00;24;04;16
Michael Roderick
All of that I'm 189 now or something ridiculous and I very rarely ever have any kind of soda. I almost always have seltzer now. And yeah, just things have really kind of shifted in terms of how I think about my, my eating.

00;24;05;05 - 00;24;25;00
Joe Bukartek
That's, that's amazing. So it sounds like with the help of the coach, you were able to reframe the way you viewed eating essentially. Yeah. Is this someone you still meet with periodically or as the has the. Okay, yeah. Is that is that because it's helpful for the accountability or why do you feel.

00;24;25;00 - 00;24;47;02
Michael Roderick
Yeah, I think it's it's helpful for the accountability, but it's also it's also helpful to talk through like, okay, once you're sort of at a a certain a certain level, it's like, what do you want to do next? Right? Like, where do you want to go next? And I think, like, we're always where and I think that's why we, you know, we bring on coaches because we're always constantly evolving, right?

00;24;47;02 - 00;25;09;20
Michael Roderick
And once we've once we've reached a point where we're like, okay, I've got this thing under control. We want somebody to basically say, okay, well, what do you plus sort of find where that next layer is, where that next level is. So a lot of the time with me and we'll talk about where I'm at and what I want to do next and how does that you know, how does that shake out and those types of things?

00;25;09;20 - 00;25;12;01
Michael Roderick
And that's always really helpful as well.

00;25;12;23 - 00;25;17;29
Joe Bukartek
Because in your instance, you're saying that food is something that doesn't go away after a certain period of time.

00;25;18;22 - 00;25;43;20
Michael Roderick
Yeah, exactly. You know, you're always going to be faced with it, right? And you're always going to be faced with those faced with those choices. Right. And there are all sorts of little guilty pleasures, right. That I that I have that's like, oh, my God, I want you know, I want that. And it's like, you know, thinking about the alternatives, thinking about the other sort of avenues, thinking about what does it look like to just sort of fall off the wagon and, like, go kind of crazy?

00;25;43;20 - 00;25;52;25
Michael Roderick
What is it not? You know, how do those things operate? Having somebody on the outside helping you see that or sort of talking you through that is, I think, really useful.

00;25;53;27 - 00;26;07;23
Joe Bukartek
So it seems like you've taken your own strength of reflection and brought in the big guns, so to speak, brought in some additional resource to hold you to it. Yeah. And almost kind of a qualified lens to your reflection. Is that fair?

00;26;08;11 - 00;26;37;27
Michael Roderick
Yeah, 100%. And I think that I. I have not spent my life studying nutrition, right? Like I have not spent my life thinking about those things and sort of being in the area that would sort of put me in the category of expert. Right. And sort of have that level of expertize. So I'm going to look for somebody who has gone through that process because they're going to give me the CliffsNotes of what I need to of what I need to do right.

00;26;37;27 - 00;26;59;07
Michael Roderick
And what I need to know. And and I think that's that's one of the most important things is to always kind of look at what are the what are the things that you need to improve on or that you need to develop? And who do you talk to? Who do you have a conversation with? Who's already done the deep dives in those places?

00;26;59;07 - 00;27;09;17
Michael Roderick
Who can give you here? The here are the main things to think about. So you don't get overwhelmed with all the information that's out there about what you could or couldn't do. And, you know, all of those types of things.

00;27;10;00 - 00;27;24;10
Joe Bukartek
Right. And just speaking of this, this specific industry or area of food or diet, I mean, obviously, we can, you know, expand it to pretty much any other area. But there's there's just an overabundance of information out there and conflicting information, too.

00;27;24;11 - 00;27;25;04
Michael Roderick
Uh huh, right.

00;27;25;29 - 00;27;48;06
Joe Bukartek
And so, yeah, sure, we can each individually take it upon ourselves to carve out the time to do our own research and to try to disseminate. But to your point, likely many of us haven't done that specific area of study. Right, or level of studying this thing. So why not, you know, get someone to help, not just disseminate the information that's out there, but help us apply it to our own lives.

00;27;48;06 - 00;27;56;07
Joe Bukartek
So I think I think that's fantastic. Seems like you've been very intentional with how you've been living your diet.

00;27;56;24 - 00;27;58;00
Michael Roderick
That is sure, sure.

00;27;58;16 - 00;28;07;28
Joe Bukartek
So in addition to or you're allowed to use this answer if you'd like, but what area in your life feels just about perfect?

00;28;07;28 - 00;28;17;16
Michael Roderick
It's such an interesting question because I think perfection is one of those things where it's like it kind of doesn't really exist, right? Like the idea of perfect is.

00;28;17;23 - 00;28;27;12
Joe Bukartek
Totally and you're, you're, you're allowed 2 to 3 lines on your idea of perfect or the flawed idea of perfect. But I, I am putting it in quotes, right?

00;28;27;16 - 00;28;51;09
Michael Roderick
Yes. Yeah. No, exactly. And I think yeah, we, we always sort of have this idea of like what is perfect in our head, but like nothing will ever sort of match up to what our expectations are in our heads. Right. And sort of what we what we see. It reminds me of when I was a playwright, you'd write a play and and think you could see in your head what that play looked like.

00;28;51;09 - 00;29;16;13
Michael Roderick
But when the director came in and the actors came in and you actually put up the show, it never looked exactly like what you saw in your head. It just was impossible. Right. And I think that perfection kind of follows that same kind of dynamic. So with all of that said, if I were to look at what do I feel like, really kind of fits into that close to perfect, you know, insert, you know, sort of place.

00;29;16;29 - 00;29;48;19
Michael Roderick
I, I think these days it's the, it's the flow and sort of ease of my life with my business. I think that's the best way I can describe it. It's like I, for a very long time had this split between the two worlds where it was like I was out, you know, doing things to grow the business. And then I was home and, you know, I was like living the home life and living the business life.

00;29;49;05 - 00;30;22;29
Michael Roderick
And these days it just feels like, yes, when I'm in here, you know, working, I'm working. But like when I go out, it's like I'm not carrying all this extra all of this extra stuff, you know, I feel like I've gotten to this place of I think balance is a really hard word. You know, you always want to be sort of careful of the idea of balance, but like, I've gotten to this place of harmony where it's just like these two things can coexist, right?

00;30;23;01 - 00;30;28;21
Michael Roderick
And I don't feel I don't feel pressured by either. You know, right now.

00;30;29;16 - 00;30;31;18
Joe Bukartek
It seems like a very calm place to be.

00;30;32;20 - 00;31;23;22
Michael Roderick
Yeah, well, I think I don't know, I just sort of hit this point where I had this realization about how when we place just too much emphasis on things, how things actually get harder. So it's like it's it's one of those ideas of like, it's like holding something gently versus squeezing it, you know, and, and, and that's the way I've started to see my business, my family, like all of us, is that like I hold it all gently, because if I get to court up and if I get to heat up about any of these things, then everything just gets really hard and it gets really frustrating.

00;31;23;22 - 00;31;38;22
Michael Roderick
But if I hold it gently where I'm just like, okay, these are the things that are happening and and some of it is going to be good and some of it is going to be bad. Some of it is going to work. Some of it is going to not. And I just, you know, look at it that way.

00;31;39;08 - 00;32;03;05
Michael Roderick
It really kind of changes everything and it ties to this concept. I talk about this a lot with clients as well, where I talk about the idea of the tennis novice and the tennis pro. And basically, if a tennis novice misses a shot, usually the game is over because the tennis novice is in their own head, right? Second, that they missed the shot, they're thinking, why did I miss that shot?

00;32;03;06 - 00;32;21;18
Michael Roderick
Where you know what's going to happen? Am I going to win the game? Is it going to work out? And they're basically not paying attention to the game anymore. They're just, you know, they're just freaking out. Whereas a tennis pro misses a shot and businesses. Okay, I missed shot. Where was I standing? Where is the other person standing?

00;32;22;00 - 00;32;48;03
Michael Roderick
What can I do now? Like, what can I learn from this? And even if they lose the game, they go back and they like, look at the game, right? And they sort of think about it and they, you know, they go through it. And I think that the tennis pro is a student of the process, whereas the tennis novice is a slave to the product where they just believe that the outcome is all that matters.

00;32;48;20 - 00;33;12;20
Michael Roderick
So what I've found is when I don't make myself that slave to the products, when I don't place these super high expectations on how this stuff is supposed to go, and I basically just place myself in the role of being a student of the process and say, okay, well, this is how this is going and this is what I'm learning and this is what I can think about for next time.

00;33;13;16 - 00;33;37;10
Michael Roderick
Everything just eases up. And I feel like one of the things like sales comes up a lot with with people when it comes to anything like coaching oriented or consulting oriented. And there's no shortage of people that will talk to you about sales. But the thing that I found that really just changed my life in regards to sales was I let go of expectation.

00;33;37;29 - 00;33;55;13
Michael Roderick
Like I let go of that desire for the outcome. It wasn't like I was talking to this person because I was trying to, you know, I'm thinking about all the business that I'm going to win. At the end of this conversation, I was just like, I'm not going to listen kind of here where they're at, see what's going on, see if I can help.

00;33;55;13 - 00;34;14;04
Michael Roderick
I'll let them know if I can help. If they want to work with me, that's awesome. If they don't, that's totally cool. I'll probably learn a lot of stuff from that and maybe there's somebody else I can help them with. And the second that I started, just like approaching things from that angle, I stopped really worrying about sales.

00;34;14;04 - 00;34;32;22
Michael Roderick
And I have people who tell me all the time, Joy, my programs are served. You my, you know, go through coaching with me or whatever. They'll they'll literally be like, I just I never felt like I was being sold, you know, I just felt like we were having a conversation. I decided, like, this was the next, you know, this was the next step.

00;34;32;22 - 00;34;41;19
Michael Roderick
Like, this was the way to this was the way to go. And I really, really attribute that to this aspect of getting rid of that area of expectation.

00;34;42;29 - 00;34;56;13
Joe Bukartek
Yeah. By shifting that mentality, it sounds not only like it reduced the pressure of that interaction perhaps, but it also sounds like it enabled you to be a lot more present and engaged in that moment by letting go of the outcome.

00;34;57;07 - 00;35;25;20
Michael Roderick
Yeah. And that's actually you're bringing up a really important point, which is that so, so often when we are thinking about an outcome, we are either living in the past or living in the future. So we're thinking about all the things that had happened before or we're thinking about all the things that could possibly happen. So if we're in either of those two places, we are not living in the present in that moment.

00;35;25;20 - 00;35;42;29
Michael Roderick
So we're going to miss a ton of what the other person is saying. And we've all we've all had those experiences. You're reading a book, it gives you some really interesting idea. You start thinking about that idea and then that idea bounces it to another idea. Next thing you know, you're three pages in and you're like, What did I just read?

00;35;43;08 - 00;36;09;03
Michael Roderick
And it happens the same in conversation, right where we're talking to somebody. They mentioned something. We're like, Ooh, that. Now I got to do that thing when I get home and take care of the laundry. And next thing you know, you missed like half of what they of what they said. So I think it's one of those things where we do have to spend the time really paying attention to are we in the present or are we letting ourselves get sucked into the future or sucked into the past?

00;36;09;27 - 00;36;21;07
Joe Bukartek
And it sounds like with a bit of even unstructured reflection before you go into an interaction, it sounds like it's a great way to maybe had this off that the past. Is that true?

00;36;21;22 - 00;36;57;11
Michael Roderick
100%, yeah. If you sit down before you're about to have a conversation and you you just have, you know, a couple of minutes or think about it for yourself and say, okay, what are the things that could derail me? Like, what are the things that could make me less present? And can I adjust that? So if you know that you are naturally going to be distracted by a buzz that comes from your phone or your watch, you know, are you going to turn off those notifications for that, you know, for that time?

00;36;57;11 - 00;37;17;02
Michael Roderick
Right. Are you going to step away if that's if that's something that you know or if you know that when people mention certain ideas, it sends you off into the future, it sends you off into the past. Well, are you going to keep an eye out for those ideas? And when you hear somebody mention that thing that normally sends you off, are you going to be like, oh, oh, okay.

00;37;17;04 - 00;37;23;16
Michael Roderick
I would love to think about that right now, but I'm not I'm going to jot down it. I'm going to stay here. I'm a stay with this person.

00;37;24;12 - 00;37;36;16
Joe Bukartek
It sounds great. That sounds like you're also bringing in your your sense of your own core values by doing that, what matters most to me. Right. And to you, it sounds like it's being present with the person you're engaged with.

00;37;36;16 - 00;37;37;00
Michael Roderick
Yes.

00;37;37;18 - 00;37;47;03
Joe Bukartek
So without looking to the past or the future, who is somebody that you presently admire and what do you admire about them?

00;37;47;22 - 00;38;35;14
Michael Roderick
So I'm going to say my wife, Nora, and she has spent so much time thinking about just everything oriented with parenting. She's read just more of, you know, more stories and articles and all these different types of things. And she just always has a way to think about how we're how we're raising the girls. And it's one of those things that that level of attention and that level of sort of commitment to that, you know, to that process of of learning is is something that is just absolutely amazing.

00;38;35;14 - 00;39;07;07
Michael Roderick
And I, I get a chance to read about parenting every once in a while. I get a chance to sort of see things every once in a while. But I, I am not nearly as as well-versed as as she is. And it's just it's amazing. It's amazing to watch her manage challenging moments with the girls. Like when something, you know, when something comes up, it's amazing to learn from her about how do I think about my own way of react eating and sort of handling what's what's going on?

00;39;07;17 - 00;39;16;25
Michael Roderick
What am I conscious of? What am I not conscious of? And it's just it's one of those things that I just really I really, really admire her for.

00;39;17;21 - 00;39;44;00
Joe Bukartek
Well, it doesn't sound dissimilar to the art of reflection, right? It sounds like she's reflecting on the things that she's reading about the commitment she's put into learning, right in the constant, maybe reflection that she's doing about how is it that she wants to be or shows up. So it sounds like some of the themes that you've touched on that you've tried to focus on are a lot of the things that you admire in her, in her parenting in particular.

00;39;44;19 - 00;39;48;04
Joe Bukartek
Yeah. What do you imagine some people admire about you?

00;39;49;01 - 00;39;59;11
Michael Roderick
Such an interesting question, right? Because because you're always like, oh, well, if I if I say this in my, you know, am I bragging right? Like, it's just like.

00;39;59;22 - 00;40;09;09
Joe Bukartek
Well, feel free to here's a get out of jail free card. You can you're you're free to say I hope people admire right. You're allowed you're allowed to purchase however you like.

00;40;09;19 - 00;40;38;17
Michael Roderick
I like that I like that. I, I hope people admire if I had to sort of take a guess what they might you know, what they might admire is my ability to connect people. And I feel like I hear that all the time. I have a lot of people who tell me that some of the introductions that I've made for them have led to these, you know, sometimes lifelong friendships, sometimes, you know, really great business opportunities and those types of things.

00;40;38;26 - 00;40;54;07
Michael Roderick
And I feel like that's something that comes up pretty often. So I would imagine if somebody were asked about the thing that they admire, I think that would be the one that would be most likely to come up.

00;40;54;20 - 00;41;15;29
Joe Bukartek
I mean, I also imagine that given that you've been getting specific feedback about that, it sounds right. So it doesn't seem too far. It doesn't seem like a huge leap to imagine that people might it sounds like. Yeah, that sounds great. Right. Is there. Yeah. Is there something that you are focused on in trying to improve?

00;41;17;05 - 00;41;40;12
Michael Roderick
I would say it's probably continue to refine prioritization. So every day there are lots of different things that I could be spending time and I get, you know, the to do list kind of, you know, together. I sort of get those like couple of things where it's like, okay, I need to work, you know, I need to work on this.

00;41;40;12 - 00;42;23;25
Michael Roderick
But I still have instances where certain things, it's just like, Oh, I probably didn't need to spend that much time on this or this actually isn't really moving the needle and, and, and helping, you know, this is just something I think I have to do, you know, all of those types of things. So I think that one of the things that I am spending a lot more time on these days is looking at that list of things and asking myself, honestly, which things really do belong at the top of that list, which things don't belong on that list, and which things are really helping, you know, versus it feels like I need to do them.

00;42;24;17 - 00;42;32;06
Joe Bukartek
And where do you think the potentially difficult decision lies once you've identified made perhaps the most important?

00;42;32;23 - 00;43;15;00
Michael Roderick
Yeah, I think where probably them the most difficult decision ends up ends up living is in the concern around disappointment. Right. You know, we have we have people who reach out to us for certain things and they want certain things. And and, you know, we have relationships that we're you know, that we've established, that we've created. And there are times where I will do something or sort of go through that process for somebody, because I have more concern about how they'll feel if it doesn't, you know, if it doesn't happen versus how how I'll feel.

00;43;15;01 - 00;43;33;09
Michael Roderick
Right. It's sort of like what's you know and what's going on. So I think that that's probably one of the hardest parts. And I've gotten I mean, I've gotten way better at it over the years than when I first first kind of got get started. I when I first started, I couldn't say no to anybody. You know, it was like really, really hard.

00;43;33;09 - 00;43;49;03
Michael Roderick
I had sort of become this person who said yes to everything. And I eventually got to a point where I got better at saying no and more thoughtful about saying no. But I still certainly have times where it's just like, I should have said no to that. And I.

00;43;49;03 - 00;44;09;13
Joe Bukartek
So in the name of progress here, the fact that you've been able to do it on a more consistent basis, maybe not to where you want it to be yet it sounds like you've done some type of reframing maybe in the know in either to yourself or to the person. Is that, do you think, where progress exists as well is in the reframing of this?

00;44;10;01 - 00;44;30;17
Michael Roderick
So I have a framework that I use and then I speak about all the time. I call it the OG framework and basically the ACG framework stands for opportunity, coincidence and gift. So if something comes my way and I know I can take full advantage of it and it really is going to serve me, then that thing that comes my way is truly an opportunity.

00;44;30;28 - 00;44;49;13
Michael Roderick
So I should take that opportunity and do something. Do something with it. If it comes my way and it's actually not really a fit for me or it doesn't really light me up or it doesn't really work for me, it's not an opportunity for me. It's a coincidence that that thing came to me. Somebody thought of me, you know, that's great.

00;44;49;13 - 00;45;13;21
Michael Roderick
But it's coincidence that it came to me. So if it's a coincidence, the way I like to think about it is can I turn that coincidence into a gift? Is there somebody else who this would actually be an opportunity for? So sometimes things will come my way. I don't like I. This is not a fit. Like this doesn't really work for me or I'm not really excited about this or I can't really make it happen.

00;45;14;03 - 00;45;33;10
Michael Roderick
But then I'll say, okay, well who would this and I've done this a lot with invitations, so people will invite me to a dinner or a gathering and it will be beyond my, you know, one, one, two, three rule that we talked about at the top of this. Right? And I'll be like, I just really don't think I should go or I don't think it's a good idea to go.

00;45;33;19 - 00;45;52;05
Michael Roderick
And what I'll do is I'll go back to them and I'll say, you know, I really appreciate it. I can't make it. But if I have someone who I think would really benefit from from coming, would you want an introduction? Like, would you want them to come instead? And some people will come back and be like, Nope, I just want you and other people will come back and be like, Oh, my God, that's great.

00;45;52;10 - 00;46;21;09
Michael Roderick
You know? Yes, send me, you know, send me whoever it is. So then I'll go to somebody who I maybe even haven't talked to in a while and be like, Hey, here's this thing, I can't go. They said that you can if you want. If you're open to it, go and check it out. And that's really helped me a lot to basically be like, okay, I can say no to this, but I can give something to somebody else within my within my network as well as, you know, with the person that I'm talking to.

00;46;22;02 - 00;46;32;04
Joe Bukartek
So it sounds like you've really made this a win win scenario in many cases, right? Yeah. And it also feeds the possibility that some people admire you for connecting people.

00;46;32;10 - 00;46;32;19
Michael Roderick
Yeah.

00;46;33;07 - 00;46;47;03
Joe Bukartek
Right. She all everybody self. Yeah, well that's amazing. That's amazing. So this OCD framework sounds like it's a system of yours that really, that it serves you in deciding what to take on and what not to take on.

00;46;47;16 - 00;46;48;08
Michael Roderick
Yes, it does.

00;46;49;06 - 00;46;58;00
Joe Bukartek
And that maybe just by honing it or fine tuning it or turning the volume up sometimes is that maybe with the next level of discernment is for you?

00;46;58;04 - 00;47;18;15
Michael Roderick
Yeah, I think I think so. I think it's you know, I think it's that aspect of being very, very honest about what is an opportunity, because I think it's just it can be very squishy and it can sort of get into that place of, oh, well, no, this is an opportunity. And then you kind of justifying it to yourself or you're justifying it to others, right?

00;47;18;26 - 00;47;19;08
Joe Bukartek
Yeah.

00;47;19;20 - 00;47;21;09
Michael Roderick
Yeah. So I think that that's the big one.

00;47;21;27 - 00;47;35;00
Joe Bukartek
Gotcha. Okay, so maybe some refining of the metrics of that, that coincidence, you know, getting really crystal clear so that in a moment of weakness, you can't misinterpret the signs.

00;47;35;00 - 00;47;36;21
Michael Roderick
Exactly, exactly.

00;47;36;21 - 00;47;52;04
Joe Bukartek
Right. All right. That's fair. Michael, I've been with you now for an hour at least, so I would love to ask you if there's anything that you'd like to leave in terms of contact wisdom with the listeners of this episode.

00;47;52;18 - 00;48;17;25
Michael Roderick
Sure. So I'll go with the one that just always that I say a lot, because I think it's really important. I think we don't think about this enough and that is that the keys to all the doors you need open are in other people's pockets. And the more that you meet folks and just develop relationships, the more you're going to find people who they've been through, what you've been through, and they've already been through it.

00;48;17;25 - 00;48;38;11
Michael Roderick
Right? So they're able to just, you know, share with you wisdom, share with you ideas, connect you to somebody who can really help you. So anything that you are currently struggling with, there is a very good chance that somebody else within your circle, your network, within your community, can help you with it and help you serve, move it faster.

00;48;38;22 - 00;49;08;02
Michael Roderick
And you yourself are sitting there with just pockets full of keys. So there are all these other people who would love, love, love to learn from you, how you overcame the things that you're dealing with, talk to you about who you can connect them with and all those different types of things. So I think it's it's just so important to remember that and pay attention to that because we need each other and that's how things get done.

00;49;08;02 - 00;49;20;24
Michael Roderick
We, we don't do this stuff alone. We we always have support and help from others within our life. So go out there, share your keys, talk to other people about theirs and open some doors.

00;49;21;15 - 00;49;41;27
Joe Bukartek
Beautiful. Beautifully stated. Thank you. And I will have your contact information in the show notes for folks to reach out to you as well and how they can find out about you and and all the fabulous. You're doing awesome. But Mike, I want to thank you for your time, your thoughtful consideration, your insights, perspectives, your nuggets. It's been a true joy.

00;49;41;27 - 00;49;43;01
Joe Bukartek
So thank you very much.

00;49;43;01 - 00;49;45;03
Michael Roderick
Yeah, thanks for having me. Jones An absolute pleasure.

00;49;45;23 - 00;50;08;16
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This has been intentionally ever after hosted by intentional lifestyle coach Joe Booker Tech. If you would like to have your own intentional conversation with Joe on or off the air visit intentionally ever after dot com. Thanks for listening.