Revamp your Business: Creative and Ethical Approaches for Small Enterprises

Sit tight and gear up as we embark on a fascinating journey with Margaret, a former consultant turned coach, who has made it her mission to help overworked small business owners find the elusive balance between work and personal life. From streamlining processes to shifting focus onto strategy, customers, and financials, Margaret’s unique approach is a breath of fresh air. Our conversation takes an amusing turn when we hear about her encounter with a man, a wheelchair, an iguana, and a parrot, amidst her travels in Turkey!

We then switch gears to delve into the powerful impact of gamification on work performance. Be prepared to be awed by the story of a forward-thinking manager who ingeniously introduced a game-like system in their workplace. The results? A significant boost in production and a remarkable decrease in workplace injuries. But that’s not all, we also explore the pivotal role of gathering feedback from customers and employees when making changes in small businesses. This feedback, we learn, can be a secret weapon in solving problems and improving the quality of your business.

As we head towards the final leg of our journey, we tackle the challenges of running a small business and discuss the significance of ethical practices and efficient operations. Ever thought of how to incentivize your employees or create a supportive work environment? We've got you covered! Our enlightening conversation concludes with a focus on recognizing and rewarding employee creativity, the power of delegation, and the role emotional intelligence plays in the workplace. So grab your notebook and get ready to revolutionize your small business approach!

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

So hello, hello, hello everybody. For some reason, my Adobe audition for this episode will not let me upload my intro music. Don't really need it anyways. Just want to give you a heads up. Me and Margaret were chatting for a while and had a great time and I just finally had to tell her Mike, we could keep chatting and I forget the record. So we talked about her consulting and new coaching and the quality employee morale. It's amazing what we went into. Just a little quick push.

Speaker 1: 0:33

I'm trying to get more subscribers via podcast feeds and reviews. That helps me out when wanting to reach out to awesome people like Margaret saying hey, I have X amount of following, this many reviews, this much of an email list. Like, would you come on to give me like 30 minutes to an hour of your time? It makes it easier for me. Other than that, yes, so subscribe to the podcast if you're in for it. Youtube, I'm working on that. It seems YouTube does not appreciate Zoom calls, so that's, I'm trying to figure out how that works. Maybe buy a package on Adobe for After Effects and do the sound wave thing, but either way, yeah. So here we go, guys, let's get right into it.

Speaker 1: 1:33

Well okay, Don't worry about this, I'll cut out this so it makes more sense. I'm just just chatting with you. So for you said you're the consulting part, it has changed and shifted to more like is it a big business, more small businesses? That's what I heard. Was that correct?

Speaker 2: 1:56

I grew up in large businesses and medium businesses and not for profits, so I've been in the business world my whole career.

Speaker 1: 2:08

And.

Speaker 2: 2:08

I'm a volunteer in the quality area with the Malcolm Baldwin National Quality World Program, so I'm shifting now for coaching. My focus is with overworking small business owners who are losing track of their family. They're not getting exercise, they're stressed, you know, over challenged and helping them find more time to look. And part of that is where looking at where they want to be spending their time, where they're spending it and helping them put a plan together to shift. And also looking within this in the business, because I look for ways. I look for ways to improve processes, find areas that can be included. So it's both the personal side and the business side to get them more time.

Speaker 1: 3:12

So does that like include automation and outsourcing to like the Philippines, or hiring, like your nephew, for cheap, or something like that?

Speaker 2: 3:21

Absolutely what I've found with small business, with entrepreneurs. They have great ideas, they put it to market, they nurture it and grow it. And they're used to doing everything themselves. So we want to step back and look at those things that can be outsourced to contractors or partners or new buyers or whatever, that they can focus on what's most important in the business the strategy, the customers and the financials Right.

Speaker 1: 4:05

Okay. So I'm actually really curious for something you mentioned earlier. You're focusing on the small business owner that's busy, doesn't have time for himself, or specifically exercising. How do you specifically find those? Because that's a very that group's not usually when they're like that, they're not open minded like we should call someone for help. They're just like well, did Bucketown harder, good thing. So how do you find those guys specifically?

Speaker 2: 4:31

or go or cows, I work through LinkedIn Okay, other colleagues who are coaching in different parts of different functions. For example, I've a consulting partner who focuses on HR. So hiring Okay, that's that you're really specific.

Speaker 1: 4:56

That's good.

Speaker 2: 4:58

People hire people, and so we're working together. That's a combination of research and offering services, teaching those kinds of things.

Speaker 1: 5:16

I like it. And then also no podcasts, too. That's a great way to get people.

Speaker 2: 5:21

Yes, that's what I've been told, and I'm grateful that you invited me to join your podcast.

Speaker 1: 5:28

Yeah, actually, it's really funny. I was just telling my father. I said, yeah, I've been having a lot of people reach out, but when I send them my link, there's like 10 people. Now I'm waiting. I haven't clicked it. They're like, oh, this is too good to be true. I'm like it's funny. It's hard for me to get people like you on too, and it's hard to get on shows. So it's like that mutual I need people and you need to get on, but no one's talking to each other. So just a weird thing I've noticed recently. But yeah, no, I'm sorry, I had a little spastic thought there, but I enjoyed. I enjoy this like the chat with you and I like that. Like I was telling you on the emails before we actually got on there and I started recording. It's like this is just like I invited you to coffee shop near your house or office or wherever and just be like tell me about your life, kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 6:21

Well, I'm interested in what you're interested in too, so tell me more about you and your travels. You seem to want to. You seem to enjoy traveling right.

Speaker 1: 6:31

Yes, I do, my biggest one recently. I went to Italy last year, actually around this time last year.

Speaker 2: 6:39

That's a good time it is.

Speaker 1: 6:41

It was right at the tail end is when it got hot, but it wasn't like unbearable, it was just instead of like. Here in California we can easily hit 115. It was more like 90 something, with dry heat wasn't bad at all. The view was so worth it. Like I, we went to like Turkey and there's a cat, a place where we landed. There's an actual like castle and everything made like 6000 BC. It was gorgeous. I was just I was climbing in that castle.

Speaker 1: 7:14

The funny thing is that was going up to it, this one guy in a wheelchair had a Liz, a big iguana in a parrot. He's like you want to take a photo with the lizard 20, 20 us? And I'm like, no, I'm good dude, and I held up my wallet. I'm like I don't have cash anyway, so I can't pay you. And he looks and he's like, all right, fair enough, I don't charge you. You still want a lizard picture of my case? I'm like I'm not going to think it was.

Speaker 1: 7:43

And then so then I was just walking around the castle and I asked him like hey, because he was handicapped. I'm like, um, any areas you recommend to the view? He? He pulls out his wheelchair. He's like dude, this thing is all terrain, it's like an ATV and he's like and he shows us C all moving. He's like I can get all over this place.

Speaker 1: 8:00

He said you want to go in the back? He's a careful, though. There is a medieval pit. He's like if you fall in, no one's going to find you, kind of thing. I was like, oh, I want to see the pit now. He's like, but if you get up there and you climb around a certain rock, the view is amazing. The tourists don't even know it exists. So it was. It was gorgeous. Like the water was more blue, there was no boats really there and I just sat there and I watched it. I was like this is amazing. This is like like that little slice of heaven on earth kind of thing. But tell me about yourself. So you were giving me a little bit of your history in the beforehand. Tell everyone out, like like what you do, what led up to you, like coaching and just like that whole backstory.

Speaker 2: 8:58

Okay, well, I enjoy helping people Okay. As I said, a lot of experience in business work and in working with volunteers and people in general, and my passion is quality and quality okay. One definition of quality is doing the right things right. So doing the right things is your strategy. To make sure that you have a strategy and you know that you're focusing on the things that will help in business.

Speaker 2: 9:42

Doing things right is the part of execute that you are delivering what your customers want. You're building what you want to build or create for customers. So it's two sides of are you doing the things you really want to be doing when you say you want to be doing, and then I need to win ring what your customers work. So what I'm trying, skilled in, is looking at processes. Is a process processes or how you run your business?

Speaker 1: 10:19

Right.

Speaker 2: 10:21

When your processes aren't lined up, you may have duplicate work, so people are doing the same things and you only need one person to do that thing for their gaps, or you're not reaching out to your customers to know am I delivering what you want? You know, getting feedback from customers is really very important.

Speaker 1: 10:48

I'm just curious in your quality and how you assess things, does also employee morale come into play, because if the employee morale is low, the quality goes down, kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 11:01

I'm having a little trouble hearing you. You're asking about dealing with morale.

Speaker 1: 11:07

Employee morale yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:10

Okay, leadership is responsible for everything.

Speaker 1: 11:14

Okay.

Speaker 2: 11:15

And studies have shown that employees behave I'm sorry. Employees dig into the work when they're appreciated. So if they don't, if they don't feel appreciated, they are more likely to look somewhere else. So it's the leader's responsibility to understand what the work is about and learn how to get feedback from employees and appreciate them. Women have a more natural flair for intuition and reading people and getting feedback. So most of the articles I've read recently about employee turnover is the men don't get it. They may have to study the feminine side of themselves and not be ashamed of it. So when I coach leaders, you know we go through what's. For example, how do they get feedback from their employees? What does their turnover number look like? And compare it to other kinds of businesses that might be similar, so that they see there's a number there that's not as good a number as they want. So sometimes people are numbers people and they're not people people. So so you discuss how to become more of a people person, and maybe the HR person can advise as well.

Speaker 1: 13:04

It's true, yeah, no. And then that touches on something, because a while ago I used to do security and really long story short is essentially one of the big bosses was like, hey, why do? Why is my number suffering at this place? I'm like, well, a guy with the like, the neck tattoo with the hell gate and the demon spawn coming out, he's like, yeah, Chuck. I'm like well, Chuck just literally wished he could break his leg and go home unpaid for six months instead of working for you for one day.

Speaker 1: 13:33

Oh, I'm like I said he literally wanted to get in a car crash and not come to you for six months. I'm like you have a moral problem, that's why your quality sucks. I'm like the word moral has more power than what's actually going on here, kind of thing. So I just told him, like dude, for humans we love games, even the non competitive shy love games, kind of thing. And I said, sad to say, for a W two worker on minimum wage 100 bucks, sadly, is really game changing. And I'm like, can you spare 100 bucks? He's like, yeah, I usually buy my steak dinners at 250 and I go twice a week. I'm like I don't know where you go for steak dinner at 250 a shop, but I want one of those. So I said can you spare two steak dinners a week and then give that cash and I even company money and just your cash to them? And he's like, oh yeah, within one month they went from like, let's say, number six, like 200,000 packages a day at a dollar each to a million a day at a dollar each.

Speaker 1: 14:40

I literally just said think of a game. I said you've been in your ivory tower too long saying make more money for me, kind of thing and you forgot what it's like to be the manager in the field, kind of thing. I told him. I said, remember when you were a manager, you would go buy that expensive taco died guy down the street with the company car because you're like I want to try him for myself, but I'm gonna use company dollars, plus, everyone did good, he's a, he had the biggest career and he's like, yeah, I'm like you haven't done that in like 30 years. So he did, he did a blowout. Their production was insane. It was under a month and a half. And that's where he put it. That's what I was asking. But he even said the quality. The injuries were low, lower. There was no more call off. People are actually begging for second shifts because they wanted to increase their numbers for the game.

Speaker 1: 15:31

I didn't even tell him how to set up the game, I just said this is an idea, you should do it, kind of thing. And that's where I was curious if that's a similar thing for you. And it sounds like, yes, not to that, not what I did, but it's similar thing. Yeah, but I kind of said it without saying it, like you said earlier, like you don't remember the, the, the feeling part of your employees because you were in the trenches with them. So you're like, oh, john's really struggling, I better go get him like a snake, like a, go buy him a snack or something Cause just to give him some calories. But also like, oh crap, boss, boss bought me a soda, like I'm going to work harder today, but yeah, that's like my favorite one.

Speaker 1: 16:10

And then, like the the finish that story off, he just walks up with his personal checkbook and says so, how much do you want for that? And I'm like, uh, well, I didn't expect to get paid for this. He's like pick a number, any number. What do you want? Like $10,000. Okay, here you go.

Speaker 1: 16:35

The only reason I mentioned the numbers earlier. I only learned that afterwards when I told I'm holding the check. And I'm like, uh, wow, that was really easy. I'm like I looked up, I gave him back to him because I'm like I think my account will not like the taxes on that. And he's like am I right? Well, if you ever want the check back, tell me and I'll give it to you. But it's one of those. No, that's the reason I figured out the number. I told the lady that what I was calling the whole time and she's like, oh yeah, like he essentially made a dollar package and he was doing 200 a K a year, a month, a day Sorry, a day and you got him to a million a day. She's like you could easily ask for two million. You would have given it to you.

Speaker 2: 17:20

Yes.

Speaker 1: 17:22

I looked at her and I'm like, okay, might want to go ask for that check back then.

Speaker 2: 17:28

Sounds like you earned it for sure.

Speaker 1: 17:30

Well, and but that's, that's kind of been my thing. So, um, just talking on that, but what else? So under quality for you? Um, what else do you look into? You were talking about processes and procedures and the double work. How do you know where the double work is, kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 17:53

When you start at the end and what are the defects, what's broken? How many returns do you get from customers? How long does it take to do task number 104? Right, it has somebody assess how long it should take? And do employees A, b and C do it differently? Because you want to get uniformity. You want to get the best process, as opposed to three people doing it three different ways. You start with the end. How happy are the customers? How happy are you with the time it takes to get from the beginning of an order or a task to the end? You want to gather some data and then you want to get people together and discuss it. What do you see that's working right here, correctly? What do you see that's not working quite so right? And brainstorm. You want to get people's ideas, not just one person. It's getting the brain power of everybody that helps solve problems.

Speaker 1: 19:13

Okay. So like a metaphorical let's say it's an office marketing agency that calls you. Is it the constant calls from the client saying like hey, you haven't produced what we said? Or is it more like who's the ideal? Instead of me speculating, who's your usual client that you deal with in your coaching and consulting that you help out with? I mean, you don't have to give me details of the exact company names, just generally who do you deal with?

Speaker 2: 19:46

Well, I do deal with the leadership.

Speaker 1: 19:50

The leadership like C-Suite.

Speaker 2: 19:52

The organization Okay and they usually have some issues. So it could be too many customers calling. I'm not happy. It could be not enough customers. So what can we do to get more customers? What could be waste, whether it's time or bad products? It depends if they're manufacturing or if they're service Right, and usually the people who are closest to the customers are the ones who feel the heat, feel the things that aren't going right as well Middle and upper management. If they don't step out to meet customers, spend time with them, they're not necessarily as in touch with where the oh 100%.

Speaker 2: 20:47

The clients are yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:51

The biggest one. I've had a few managers approach me Just like quick tips what can we do to improve our stuff? I'm like, talk to whoever deals with the customers the most, whether it's a returns person. I said, surprisingly, janitors have to deal with the customers a lot and they hear things they really shouldn't anyways, talk to the janitor, talk to the return people, and I said, because a lot of them were grocery stores I said talk to your clerks, though, that you check them out. They hear everything.

Speaker 2: 21:22

Oh, they experience everything.

Speaker 1: 21:24

Yes, yes, and I told them just talk with them. But I said, don't be closed minded. They say, hey, the customers are being really mean and rude. That means you need to step up. Like you said earlier, you're the leader, You're responsible for that kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 21:40

I was at the grocery store the other day and there was only one shepherd and the line was quite long. And I asked her can we call the manager and see if they can open up another aisle? And she said we're shorthanded. The manager over there is working the self-checking, so that particular store must have had turnover or or just everyone called off, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1: 22:13

Or massive call off too, yes, because I used to work at a grocery store before my current job and, yeah, call offs were Some days you'd hear nothing and then some days more than half the crew just called off in one day and I'm like how do you run a business when half your crew can disappear?

Speaker 2: 22:32

Exactly, One of my clients is a technology person and he's a PC guru. He's brilliant Kind of crusty that. He's brilliant and we discussed you know you're going to need some help. He can be a good teacher and what he said was they come in and they don't want to work every day.

Speaker 2: 22:59

No, the other thing, they're telling me how to run my business. You know, they're laid off from Microsoft or wherever and he says I don't need people like that. I expect people to come to work every day and be willing to learn. And his criteria are coachable.

Speaker 1: 23:20

I mean willing to learn and then have some basic background and be comfortable with technology and start with yeah, I mean, if you get in an IT or coding or like your computer repair business, yeah, you need to be well versed. You don't have to be the best in technology and coding, but yeah, that's a big one. I've noticed too that these kids, especially with TikTok, are like I know how the business is supposed to be ran. Blah, blah, blah. You can't do this to me because of California code blah, blah, blah and that's like yeah, but also California code 30 instead of 28 overwrites that. And they're like what? You're infringing on me, You're oppressing me, I'm going to sue you and just walk away.

Speaker 2: 24:03

Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 1: 24:05

It's crazy, and there's a lot of these. I call them TikTok lawyers. Now they're saying hey, if your little boss says this, that's retaliation and we can get you a shit ton of money. Just give me a call, and it's like. But a lot of them have gotten the business owners in trouble. So it is another problem where it's like these kids have all this access to these scummy lawyers and they don't need to know how business works. They make money either way and it's the sad part.

Speaker 2: 24:36

Now I don't know you with that depth here in this area, but wow.

Speaker 1: 24:48

You have essentially like I mean in general just a lawyer giving an order Sorry, if not a lawyer, a boss, a manager saying hey, you're slacking, I need you to pick up the speed. I guess if they repeat that more than so many times a day, that's considered harassment by California law.

Speaker 2: 25:15

Well, I certainly wouldn't approach it that way. Well, right?

Speaker 1: 25:19

No, but I'm just telling you. That's also where sometimes the quality of people are getting scummy or scummy here. So back to your customer. I can understand the word. He's like I only want excellence and I'll do it myself because, yeah, the people are not the best right now.

Speaker 2: 25:38

I understand hiring people that are willing to work and willing to learn and get along with each other and be challenging If there's so many jobs that they can just hop from one to another you know that doesn't give them incentive to stay at one place and try and make better. But again, leadership's responsibility to make the workplace a suitable place, a place where you can learn and advance over time and contribute. So it's always the leader's fault. I mean Dr Demain goes back to that it's all the responsibility of leadership.

Speaker 1: 26:26

It really is. And that's the interesting part. A lot of managers and business owners don't want to admit. They're like no, no, no, no, it's the employees fault because they don't have their emotions and checked, kind of thing, which is not true either. So hypothetical let's say I'm a new client of yours and I have a marketing no, let's look over like a marketing agency. I have like 40 people under me, but my problem is I'm losing people to my competitors for pricing, for quality reasons, because that's where you specialize. What would I need to do as your client that you would suggest to me to help retain my employees? But also, maybe I'm burning out my employees too. We haven't gotten that deep in the conversation, but foreshadow, kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 27:21

Well, there are probably several elements to look at If you're burning out your employees and you're burning out yourself you don't have a good strategy.

Speaker 2: 27:35

You might not have a good match of how complicated the work is or what your role is the leader and various roles of the employees so I would take a look at what are you trying to accomplish, what are the skills you need, what is your timeline for delivering what your customers want? And take a look at what's wrong with those things. I mean burning out your employees. You're probably going to have them leave. You have a turnover problem as well.

Speaker 1: 28:13

Yeah, probably If people are looking for it out.

Speaker 2: 28:16

I don't want to work here.

Speaker 1: 28:19

It doesn't matter, he's paying me 40 bucks an hour. It's not worth it, kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 28:24

That may be, and the leader needs to listen. I think that's the first skill I coach on to get a sense of what is really going on. Again, listen to your customers, listen to your employees, listen to the informal leaders in your organization, because everybody has some people who are leaders among the worker bees. You're natural leaders. Find some people and close your mouth and listen, take notes and don't react in a negative. Well, they shouldn't do that. Listen for them to trust you that you're going to take that information and confidence and try and learn from it.

Speaker 1: 29:23

So again back to I'm your client. Let's say I can't for some reason convince my employees to come into a meeting and tell me that they think I'm going to fire them for some reason, that inviting them to my office is just they're too scared to. What are other ways I could get information ethically out of my employees without having to be like get in my office now and tell me everything because that's not going to work.

Speaker 2: 29:48

So getting an employee satisfaction survey regularly is a way where they don't have to give their name and you can collect information that you're looking for and some statistics.

Speaker 1: 30:07

So would that, when you say regularly, are you talking like monthly, quarterly, yearly?

Speaker 2: 30:13

Once a year in most places okay have enough that you can learn from it to adjust the processes and the recognition. Okay.

Speaker 1: 30:28

All right. So then I get an employee survey and a lot of them are saying that generally I'm a good boss, I don't lead them well, but I'm unrealistic in my expectations. The quality that I expect compared to what they can produce, the gap's too big. So how would you help me address that to readjust my standards? Good thing.

Speaker 2: 30:57

Okay, we want to spend some time on the definition of quality in your Okay. Quality is different to different people, so we usually measure it by how successful the processes are in delivering the end product or service. So a gap in expectation needs good dialogue. Why?

Speaker 2: 31:31

would the management think it's 10 widgets an hour and what you're producing is three widgets an hour, right, so what is the process to build a widget? And early in management you learn to do time motion studies. So how long does it take person A to do a widget, person B to do a widget, person C, and do they do it differently? So who's more successful and how can we model that behavior or document the process in that sense that person A is the most successful? So what can we learn from person A and then teach person B and C to do it that way? Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 32:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense and document and categorize it with the intention of continuous improvement. Part of quality is continuous improvement. Keep your eyes open for innovation, for small improvements. Innovation is big improvements and then small improvements as well.

Speaker 1: 32:51

Right and they have like the small little things here or there, like maybe they instead of they need, instead of our ergonomic correct chair, they actually just need a standing desk kind of thing. And for Johnny, that's exactly what he needs and his product, his productivity goes through the roof, because he's a kind of said kind of guy. But maybe, like Lucy, needs the ergonomic correct chair and the fancy keyboard and the rest and all that, and then her productivity can go up. Yeah, it's not one size does not fit all, right, but there's, there's general outlines that you can fall for each. Okay, I get that, yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:30

So, yeah, what I was leading to was like the 10, I want to expect in 10 widgets. It's three widgets they're producing and it's just like the quality of the products good, I'm not really getting any returns, the customers are happy, but it's just, my employees are like boss, we can't, we can't do it that fast kind of thing. So, yeah, that was really good, thank you. So then the other one would be let's say, my metaphorical widget shop is that the employees are wanting more breaks because it's a really hot manufacturing environment and they're they're overheating consistently. But I can't afford constantly giving breaks. But I also do run the risk of them leaving, because it's just unrealistic. If I was your client, what would you tell me to do to help improve the quality of their life, but also the productivity and safety to?

Speaker 2: 34:27

that's a really good question with the climate change going on and, speaking in the United States, people who are working outside are fainting and they're having to drink water you know where hats and moists, kurchifs and stuff. It's really up to management and what the best practices are from the health care side on how to manage people who work outside, and I mean people who change, do roofing, people who do picking, farming you know doing farming and digging and picking and things like that. There are best practices that the health care organizations do publish on keeping employees safe. And then there's OSHA, as OSHA may have guidelines as well.

Speaker 1: 35:36

Right, so yeah, but like most sorry, I keep interrupting.

Speaker 2: 35:41

You're going to get sued. You're going to lose people as well. You have to take their safety into consideration.

Speaker 1: 35:50

Right, yeah, that's what I was about to say is like a lot of contracting companies and roofers. They don't care about OSHA or best practices, like just get up there and if you feel faint, go in the corner, drink some Gatorade and get back up there, kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 36:06

I'm afraid you're right. I mean, it's really not ethical to do that.

Speaker 1: 36:11

Right.

Speaker 2: 36:14

Yeah, most.

Speaker 1: 36:18

I remember I used to work for it's weird to say it was under the table. Under the table, just cash only. I used to work for an ammo plant. It was out of a guy's garage, it was wild there, but the best practices. He actually said that he's like you are safe here, but if you're looking up rules on how to do ammunition, we don't follow any of them and technically this shop doesn't exist. And that I mean I made crazy money with this dude again. Obviously he made way more off me, but it was just one of those. Yeah, if I tried to like, call whoever like the government play, he's not following rule number two or three, kind of thing. He literally said I could close up shop, move everything long before the government gets here. They won't even know I'm here. So he's like and that's another one where a lot of businesses are ran like under the table, so like if you say anything to where you're talking about, you never worked here, kind of thing.

Speaker 1: 37:23

That's another problem employees face. I mean there's always the aboveboard ones and they're still shady managers that do that, but that a lot of people are still paid cash on our table even though we're going cashless, kind of thing. So in that case let's just say, like I have a contracting company and I'm not hiring illegal immigrants from Home Depot, but I'm hiring 20 year olds in college that don't want to W to the like. Hey, I said, pay me 25 an hour. Can you pay me 20 bucks cash an hour and I'll work for you however long you need it. And I'm like cool as the wonderful coach that you are. What would you tell me in that situation to handle my employees? Because that does still open me for a lawsuit, kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 38:16

As a certified management consultant, we commit to ethical behavior, so I could not work with someone like that. That's just against my principles and the ethical statement that I signed.

Speaker 1: 38:38

Okay, I would say I'm sorry if I pushed you in the corner on that one. I was just curious.

Speaker 2: 38:48

Yeah, no, I can't deal with that kind of person.

Speaker 1: 38:51

All right, so that guy out of the picture. So if any of you are thinking of a higher rigor, that do that, buzz off. But okay, so then let's just say I'm above board, but again I'm still paying him above minimum wage. Pretty ethical, totally legal. But I am not like a slave driver, but I am in pretty. It's like hey, boys, it's getting hot, like, just beat the heat, let's go faster, kind of thing. So when the heat of the day comes we can just go sit under the tree and relax. But it is intense leading up to that point. Is there anything in that you would recommend so my boys or gals are not burnt to a crisp, literally and emotionally, kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 39:42

Well, I get back to standardize the work. What is the meantime to do the widgets and what's unreasonable? What if? There's no one set way, though, as much as you can to make it simple, straightforward, step by step, documented and tested. I mean, it's not like somebody's being unreasonable, saying go faster, faster, faster, without real data. You've got to have some data in your operations to know what's reasonable and what might not be.

Speaker 1: 40:30

But what if there's no one set way, like the making caramel apples? There's no one set way of making caramel apples, kind of thing. I mean, yes, you can always have the automated machines, but this is just a mom and pop shop hand dipping them, hand breading them, packaging them. They don't have the machines and stuff like that. I mean, I did it once on the side, messed up my hands doing it, but there was no set way. They just said hold your spike, either slam it or take a hammer and hit it, but careful where you hit the hammer because the thing could be off and that's it. Then they walked away. I was like, how does this work?

Speaker 2: 41:18

How does this work?

Speaker 1: 41:21

So that's more what I was alluding to, where even the people they're like there's no one way. Whatever works for you, kind of thing, as long as it looks straight, and that's all we want, kind of thing. So in that case, how would you like the caramel apple example? How would you talk to the caramel apple lady that's paying everyone?

Speaker 2: 41:42

You might think about incentives. Okay, but with the top producer? I mean, you might rate the people from top producer to the newest person and pay them accordingly. So your top producer would make more money than your brand new person and you would ask the top producer to share that technique that he or she is using to produce more products in a time period. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1: 42:18

No, it does. That's actually what I had to do to figure it out. I found the top dog and I was like, okay, what are you doing? That's where he. And then he just told me he's like dude, it's really simple. And he actually pulled out this little doodad he made. He's like I'll make you one, it's really easy kind of thing. And so he's like you just put it in, slam it really hard, perfect every time.

Speaker 2: 42:37

You do want your top producers to teach and mentor others, and that's part of why they should be paid more.

Speaker 1: 42:47

Well, he was hard to talk to. He was like a stereotypical, like high schooler with big headphones, like even bigger than mine, so that's where I had to like and he was the kind of energy where, like he's generally a nice guy, but if you're around them and you don't know him, he's like intimidating and scary kind of thing. So everyone was scared to talk to him. I'm like you know what? I'm that guy to ask questions. I'm just going to ask him, like I don't want to keep hurting my hands, what do you keep doing, kind of thing. He's like oh, man.

Speaker 2: 43:17

Well a leadership is important to recognize who are the top producers and ask them and coach them to teach the others, without being intimidating.

Speaker 1: 43:31

Or be like what's your process? If it's not, if it's unorthodox, can you at least explain the basics so I could write it down? Sure.

Speaker 2: 43:38

Sure.

Speaker 1: 43:40

You know like, yeah, there might be like from going from step two, you skip three, go to four, you hit three and you're back to five and odd kind of thing. That might be a thing. But what's the steps in, like in order, that you have to do? Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, I like it.

Speaker 2: 43:54

That's what I say is this there's a standard process and maybe somebody has been able to skip three and four, three and five, and that could be an innovation that may be, the best process. So, keep in mind those people who are creative, who do come up with other ways of doing things and then, over time, move that to be this new standard. You're always looking to be better and use ideas that are working.

Speaker 1: 44:28

So in like that case let's say, back to the caramel apple thing, I have my caramel apple shop and everything, and let's say I do have my best producer telling me stuff. But then let's say little Jenny figures out, oh, we can't skip step three. Like step three is just completely irrelevant and we're not affecting health code by telling me that and we have to prove it. Should I give her like a bonus or a gift card or what would you recommend in that case? Like I generally want to reward my employee but I don't want to give her like 500 bucks Because it's like it's okay, it's not actually 500 bucks, but I want her to know like you made a great improvement. Thank you, kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 45:10

I've seen teams get together and brainstorm what they would appreciate. So, they come up with a set of incentives, or add a boy, add a girl. That's a typical kind of one with a small amount of money or a half a day off. Or bring in ice cream once every two weeks, or something like that. Tell them to the employees, and what would you know? Bring their choice.

Speaker 1: 45:45

So essentially, like when you're having all these strategy meetings with your employees, it doesn't have to be blatantly obvious to be like hey, so like hypothetically, if I want to reward you guys, what would you want? And they'll all just be like oh, I want ice cream, 100 bucks for gas gas is expensive stuff like that and you just kind of like take mental notes not like Santa Claus, okay, sure.

Speaker 2: 46:08

So, first guess, that's a terrific idea.

Speaker 1: 46:10

Yeah, guess is going up against it. Yeah, you want 100 bucks for gas. Here you go, tinker gas for you.

Speaker 2: 46:16

So you know, ask them or have them brainstorm, and then seeing what crazy ideas come along, that really would cheer them up.

Speaker 1: 46:29

Nice. So I know this is not your specialty and you don't have to answer it in any way, but let's say, kind of like your client that's having trouble hiring people, he like he can find the source of people, the computer one, earlier. How would you, in a hypothetical sense, let's say I'm in his situation where I have this proprietary knowledge and software and all that, but I don't, but the people don't seem to understand it, but I also can't get quality people. So what I'm trying to get to is how would you recommend I filter people to find some the quality within them?

Speaker 2: 47:09

Can you ask that again?

Speaker 1: 47:11

I know that was a really rambly Sorry. So essentially what I was asking is I'm like your computer client earlier that you mentioned, but I can't find quality people. I can find people but they're not of quality that will stick. What would be some of your methods? You can tell me, as a client, how to filter different employees coming on to like find the quality within them.

Speaker 2: 47:39

Well, sometimes you have to hire them and see. You know, talk to them this is the job, these are the expectations and watch them work and coach them and see how they're doing. They somehow can stay. If it's an attitude of I know better than you, you know, if it's an attitude issue, that person's not going to work out.

Speaker 1: 48:05

Right.

Speaker 2: 48:06

I mean it's two-sided the employee needs to learn and the boss needs ways to teach and coach and nurture and not be real hard on them necessarily. It's that attitude is really important.

Speaker 1: 48:24

Would it also be like the emotional intelligence of the situation to you bet, you bet.

Speaker 1: 48:29

Okay, okay, so then. So what I was trying to get at is essentially like there can obviously now there's loaded questions. I actually heard this at a coffee shop. Was really funny.

Speaker 1: 48:44

One of the guys had a great way to filter people that follow orders and do what you say kind of thing is. He says you do your interview and you have all this different stuff. But he said a big one is he's like I would always leave a book on the floor right next to the chair where they're coming in and he's like I would see if they pick it up and put it on my desk it didn't have to be in the best place just to see if they'd even pick it up. Cause he said that means to go above and beyond without being told what to do. I was like that's interesting, okay. He said no, another one.

Speaker 1: 49:14

He's like it's funny, but he's like it tells you if people follow orders, well, is hey, on your way out, can you write something on that whiteboard? And I was like okay, and that's where it was like a joke. I said then I probably write a whole freaking story because you said write something Like the action. He's like no, I wanted the word something. And I'm like clearly I don't follow orders. Well then, when I looked up, actually I really don't follow orders.

Speaker 2: 49:46

Well, Well, I want to pause and use the borders. The very old fashioned type of management was like the military, where the upper officers give orders and filter down. The more modern strategy of management is not ordering.

Speaker 1: 50:08

It's more facilitating.

Speaker 2: 50:12

Having a clear definition of what the job is. Having people to give coaching here's how you do it. Here's a different way to do it Side by side, watching them and helping them. And it's not telling a person, it's not. The more modern management is not giving orders. It's describing the job, helping them with it, measuring results, coming back and improving, not criticizing. I mean the fact the word order sounds like it's easy to criticize and you don't keep employees happy in a situation with a lot of criticism.

Speaker 2: 50:58

No, yeah, and you get mad, so I have challenged that word that all of management is ordering.

Speaker 1: 51:04

Well, no, he said people who follow orders. Well, that's where he said the right something.

Speaker 2: 51:13

To me if you're judged on following orders, doesn't allow your creativity to come up, Because we learned so much from brand new employees.

Speaker 1: 51:24

Yeah, because they're not biased at all.

Speaker 2: 51:29

And there's a story from Marriott and Marriott hotels and they hire new people, new maids and things, and so at the end of a week or so, they talk with them to see what could we be doing differently, what is the better idea? Because a brand new set of eyes can spot gaps or inefficiency. Or why are you doing it that way? That's done so. Marriott is known for really listening to new employees, so that's an example. Again, I emphasize the word listening.

Speaker 1: 52:16

Oh, no, it's true, and that's the only reason I bring that one up. It was interesting because I told him. I said, yeah, if you asked that on the way out, when you say write something, I would just write. I really need this job. Thanks, josh, kind of thing. But that's where I told him. But that is interesting, the tense on word, the meaning behind the word. I took it as write in action. You meant follow, like the literal words. I said yeah. I said, and that's what I told him. I said that would be a great filter system. I said but do you rely on that? Only? He's like no, no, no, there's a lot of them. He's like maybe you are the creative I need, which then all those rules don't even apply. I almost want you to break them to know you're the correct. One kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 53:09

Well you seem to be very creative and willing to come up with lots of ideas.

Speaker 1: 53:16

Yeah, well, the one thing he mentioned. I actually laughed at this because he said I thought he thinks this is one of my guests. Now he told me sometimes I get really bored and I just want to spice things up during the interview process. He's like there's not much you can spice up without getting in trouble. And he's like so I'll write in the middle same text to say, hey, if you really want this job and you made it to this point if you can print a photo of your favorite cat or of your cat, you'll get a lot of browning points, extra browning points. If you can print it in color and he's like and if you can bring this to me while wearing American flag pin on your left lapel, you practically guarantee to get a job.

Speaker 1: 54:01

Well, all the dudes and most women did it, but there was these two little petite, shy ladies that had the color printed thing and the American flag pin. He was not expecting hiring two people, but he took his receptionist, like okay, we need to hire two people, I can't let these two go. Put him somewhere and then we'll figure out where to put him after that. Okay, that's another one he told me he's like yeah, he's like I was looking for one person. I got two instead.

Speaker 2: 54:33

I'm sure they were very grateful.

Speaker 1: 54:35

And he paid him. Well, I know he said, and he's like they were so skilled and they undersold themselves. He's like normally my recruits when they're first hired, to like 15 to 18 bucks. He's like they were so skilled they instantly went up to 30 an hour. He's like I could not afford them to leave anymore. So I think the last I chatted with him via email, those ladies were up to like 45 an hour and he's like and they love it. Oh my God.

Speaker 2: 55:01

I'm standing pay for performance.

Speaker 1: 55:04

Right.

Speaker 2: 55:04

Excellent, excellent.

Speaker 1: 55:06

Oh no, and that's what he said. He's like everyone says pay yourself first. He's like, no, pay your employees well and they will take care of you, which means you get paid more Kind of thing he's like. But always remember to pay them well, because if you don't, and you don't give them compliments, there's some other company that'll pay him more. It's the compliment.

Speaker 2: 55:24

It's the appreciation as well as the pay.

Speaker 1: 55:28

We both yeah, because his business was pretty rudimentary. I think it was more like IT call center stuff. So these ladies were more like the backend, bookkeeping and stuff like that. So they didn't even need to know about the computer stuff and that's where he's like. But people don't want to do bookkeeping anymore and the fact that these two were okay with it, he's like I had to pay them to stay. Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 55:52

Yeah, it's some customization for each individual, a little bit of customization.

Speaker 1: 55:59

Exactly perfect. Yeah, and that's so. Would you also kind of like that example, like if I have a top performer, he's producing 25% above average, should I pay him average 25% more than everyone else? Kind of thing?

Speaker 2: 56:18

I wouldn't give a number, but certainly more than average and employee of the month stuff like that, other kinds of rewards, and write him up in a magazine article or something and multiple ways of appreciation. Certainly money is first, but it's not the only thing.

Speaker 1: 56:43

Well, I was gonna say like, let's say he's a top performer and I do give him a bonus. But let's say, maybe company policy, you get paid vacate, you're guaranteed vacation, kind of thing, but you're not guaranteed paid until third year, kind of thing. And but it's like if he's a top performer, he's like you know what, we'll give you one week paid even though it's not your third year, like that's your bonus, go have fun, kind of thing. Is that another way you could do it?

Speaker 2: 57:09

Sure, keep an open mind and be creative.

Speaker 1: 57:13

Okay.

Speaker 2: 57:15

And tailor the incentive or the appreciation to an employee.

Speaker 1: 57:23

So I'm just kind of talking Can you help company policies. Right, yeah don't don't affect yeah, don't interfere with company policies, but like you can get creative kind of thing, Right. Okay, nice. Is there any topics in particular that I might have missed, that you would like to talk about?

Speaker 2: 57:53

You've covered a lot of ground Well, thank you. In leadership and management and keeping employees happy, so I mean my word. I'm concentrating on is nurturing the leaders who are overworking and to help them get more time so that they they have a more well rounded life.

Speaker 1: 58:19

So work a lot and it sounds, and it sounds like if they, if everyone's made it this far. It sounds like you are definitely the Galda call for that. It really does. If I was in, if I was in a position where I needed a coach, if I heard this podcast, I'd definitely be giving you a call. Be like Margaret. Yeah, I'm that guy on Josh's show. I need help.

Speaker 2: 58:42

Great, thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 58:46

It's an absolute honor and pleasure. I learned a lot, especially about, like like you mentioned earlier, like the feminine energy. I did learn a lot about that, like like I do realize, like I do have more masculine tendency for things, but I try to be softer with people now and especially listening to you, it's like, oh, there's still definitely places I can work on, kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 59:10

I'm not trying to be critical, I'm just observing from my, my experiences, and it's tailoring the coaching to the person and the situation.

Speaker 1: 59:24

Right.

Speaker 2: 59:24

There's no one right, as you say. There's no one right answer for everybody.

Speaker 1: 59:29

Right.

Speaker 2: 59:31

How listening is it so important for leaders?

Speaker 1: 59:35

It really is, and it's a shame. It almost seems like leaders in general don't want to hear what's important until the bottom line is affected, but then by then it's too late, kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 59:47

It's probably pretty late then. If they don't want to hear, then they're not subscribing to continuous improvement. You've got to hear what's wrong or what somebody thinks is wrong, and then decide is it really wrong, do we need to do something about it or not?

Speaker 1: 1:00:08

Like this one gentleman I talked to. He was a big, like he had like 800 people under him and like I think he was like 4550 managers under him, big district guy, and I asked him like 800 people, that's a lot of people to tend to. Yes. I said how did you, first of all, how did you keep yourself sane during all that? And then, finally, I said the employee morale must have been really hard to monitor because that's so big. And he said you know what he's like, what I did. He said I would find people that are ambitious but had a good, hearty personality, that were not jerks. I'd promote them, see if they could handle the promotion. He said he's not no biggie. I put him back somewhere else.

Speaker 1: 1:00:56

But he said if an employee he said one employee actually made it to point to come to my president office and tell me this, he would have to throw up every day before he came to work just to do his job. I looked at him like okay, that's not good If you're physically getting sick before a job. He's like. I literally went down to HR and I told him. I said, hey, give me a day or two, I'll get on this. Make some calls. He went to HR and says so and so is getting sick every day. Dreads coming to work. This is a HR problem. Find him a new job Bye tomorrow. There's literally the guy got to call the next day and it's a job. He loves HR. Since you called him, I figured out that he likes numbers, so they put him in more of like a data entry. He's like the day I left, the kid was still happy and like oh my God, it was amazing. Hr just called me and just moved me. He's like I never told him. I'm like no, you don't have to.

Speaker 2: 1:01:54

Round pegs and round holes and square pegs and square holes.

Speaker 1: 1:01:59

Yeah, and that's where he's like. And that's where he said but he's like the key was delegation, but making sure my managers essentially had the same mind that I have. And if they were underperforming, I would tell him okay, what's going on, because you're way down below everyone else and people are leaving. And I tell him he's like. And they tell me because they had to, it's a job, it's like why I'd fire them. And he said the same thing it's like you. And he's like okay, you're not following procedures. Obviously you're not listening to employees, kind of thing.

Speaker 1: 1:02:29

Like do you want to still be a manager or can I? Do you want me to put you somewhere else? Do you think I'm someone underneath you? And I said, wow, okay, so I'm like. So good management has always been known but for some reason, corporations don't want to do it. He's like oh no, it's all bottom line, it's the manager's choice to do it. He's like I lost a lot of bonuses the way I manage people, he's like, but I had the whole company wanted to come to work under me.

Speaker 1: 1:02:57

He's like that was priceless, he's like.

Speaker 2: 1:02:59

I love that, absolutely, absolutely. How are we doing on time?

Speaker 1: 1:03:04

Oh, I'm doing good. Do you need to get going? I do, okay. So then quickly tell everyone where you're at, where they can get you, and then I'll put the links in the description.

Speaker 2: 1:03:15

I am Margaret Dorchester.

Speaker 1: 1:03:17

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:03:19

And my email is first name at First Initial Last Name, so Margaret M-A-R-G-A-R-E-T at M Dorchester-D-O-R-C-H-E-S-T-E-R dot com.

Speaker 1: 1:03:36

Wonderful. Any social media you're on or just the website's good for you.

Speaker 2: 1:03:42

Modeling didn't then anywhere else.

Speaker 1: 1:03:46

Got it.

Speaker 2: 1:03:46

And I'm happy to give a half hour free coaching session.

Speaker 1: 1:03:53

Mentioned Josh in the message.

Speaker 2: 1:03:55

Of course.

Speaker 1: 1:03:57

Calvin C. It's not free unless you message me.

Speaker 2: 1:04:01

Yes, thanks to Josh Bolton.

Speaker 1: 1:04:04

All right, have a good one with your client or podcast interview. You'll be getting an email pretty quick too.

Speaker 2: 1:04:13

Great. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 1:04:15

So nice meeting you. Absolutely A pleasure. Big hugs. Thank you so much. I don't want to hold you too much Bye.