#12: The Modern Job Market | Mike Manoske | Part Two

In Part Two of Episode 12, we continue our conversation with Mike Manoske, an International Coaching Federation certified career coach. In this episode, we discuss important tips to help the modern job candidate attack the interview process.

We will cover:

1. Interview Mindset
2. Asking Meaningful Questions
3. Creating Conversation
4. Identifying Transferable Skills
5. Articulating Your Story
6. Creating A Brand Statement

For more information, visit www.ThinkBusiness360.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 1:35 Interview
• 16:35 Outro

Transcript

Rushab Kamdar: 0:03

Welcome to the Business 360 Podcast where we will take a 360 degree view of all things business in under 30 minutes. I'm Rushab Kamdar, a serial entrepreneur, helping businesses, startups, working professionals, and business school students. I'm just living the dream. What's going on, Business Heroes? Welcome to part two of episode 12. Last week, we spoke with Mike Manoske and Mike laid out the landscape of what the job market is today in 2021. And last week's episode, he talked about all the available resources that are out there for job candidates. We also talked about job candidate mental health, and the average number of years that employees are staying at a company. This week is packed with helpful tips for the interview process. For example, what type of mindset a job candidate should have, or the types of questions a job candidate should ask during the interview process, also how do job candidates identify their transferable skills or articulate their story, and how do they create a brand statement. Articulating your story and creating a brand statement is not only important for the average job candidate but it's also important for the entrepreneur that's looking to get back into industry. So definitely stick around and let's get to it. So I want to take the, uh, the topic towards the interview process because, um, you're coaching a lot of these, these candidates. And there's, again, a stigma or a common belief that the process of interviewing is broken. Um, and so what, what is, I just want, it's more of an opinion question. What do you feel about the interview process? What do you tell your candidates and what do you think, and maybe improve that process?

Mike Manoske: 2:02

So you can't necessarily, if you're a candidate, it's, it's hard to improve their process. It is their process, you know, good, good, bad or indifferent, however, you can change how you approach it. And you know, the idea that you're, that an interview is a piano recital, like, okay, I have to walk in and I have to perform. And if I hit the wrong note at the wrong time, I'm failing. I want to get that out of people's heads that the reason you're talking to an organization is they have a problem. They have an unfulfilled need. They have a specific thing they're not getting to, or they're growing so fast they can't get everything done. You're there to help. And I really encourage clients to walk in with the, with the mindset, be more of a consultant and really focus on what are you guys trying to do? How can I help? Where where's the rub, where's the friction. Um, walking in that way can completely, first of all, you walk in more confident. More than that, now you're having a conversation and can't guarantee that the person name on the side of the desk is going to fully participate every time, but we've seen great results with that.

Rushab Kamdar: 3:15

No, that I that's a beautiful way to say it, right? Because when I do my workshops with the business school students, I have this thing, which I call the Superpower 360 Blueprint, which is essentially how to discover their superpowers and what they bring to the table, and the entire angle is understand the company, understand what you know, and now, because you understood the company, you know how to let that company, you know that because of my experience, this is how I can help you. And that viewpoint of, of coming in there as a consultant is, is a great, great suggestion. So that's a, that's a good segue to the next question, which is what are the top three things a job candidate needs to get better at in the interview process?

Mike Manoske: 3:53

They need to ask better questions. And, you know, again, we're so conditioned to tell a story, you know, and that is that's another one we'll get there in a moment, but the idea that you're, you're statically, just putting out information where you should be collecting information. And, you know, for example, they ask you a question, like, tell me, tell me a great, you know, your greatest success. You tell that story you shouldn't end with just boom told the story. Does that help? Is that what you're looking for? How does that fit with what you guys are doing? In other words, bring it to a conversational level. So asking better questions. If they say something that doesn't sound right, don't just nod your head. Go. Interesting. I hadn't heard it put that way before or, oh, that's a little different than I had thought. Can you tell me more? So engaging through questions I think is really important. The other part is really understanding that you are going to be doing some storytelling. And being able to be concise with your stories, being able to read the room while you're telling it, not go for 10 minutes, you know, uh, you know, one, maybe two minutes asking them, checking in, um, to say, are they getting it? Things like that I think are really important to, to changing and really controlling the interview process for a candidate.

Rushab Kamdar: 5:18

I completely agree with that. Uh, and, and, you know, the, the asking of the questions that is in itself so integral that that should be in every university, in every career services, uh, program, a training on that, right? Just getting people, conditioned, asking questions. It's the old sales, uh, strategy, you know, keep asking questions so that the potential customer or prospect will give you the answer, what they need, and then you tell them that's how you solve it. So.

Mike Manoske: 5:49

And, and, you know, going with what you said, we also need to, we also need to shrink down the complexity of interviews. And, and by that, I mean, um, there's only really, there's only two things going on here. There's, you're evaluating competence and you're evaluating team fit. That's really it, Rushab. And the thing that I think that's really important is the candidates evaluating those elements equally. You know, if this company wants me to do this certain thing, are they competent to assist me with that? Do they really, is this thing that they want, or this, this result they want, are they capable of providing the support around me to do that? And the second part is, can I hang with these people for 8, 10 hours a day? You know, I mean, are these people, I, I really feel a vibe and a connection with, and if your answer isn't pretty positive on both, is that the right next step? So we need to simplify this decision-making too.

Rushab Kamdar: 6:48

So you brought up before, uh, that too many, too many job candidates are conditioned into going into it, a job interview and just feeling like they told their story and boom, it's done. And you know, we speak about story and I've also brought up discovering your superpowers are what I like to call transferable skills. Uh, so what, what advice do you have for candidates in identifying their transferable skills, articulating it and telling that story? Their brand story.

Mike Manoske: 7:14

Well, I think it hones around the job description. That it's a great question you're asking. Um, and the job description, really, if done well, then I, again, I'm a recruit a long time recruiter, so some of them aren't as strong as others. But you're really trying to hone in on. Okay. You've got, usually you have about eight bullets and it's usually the top three, four, maybe five that are the core. And so, as a candidate, your job throughout the process, not just in the interview, but before, during and after is to go, okay, how valid are these? How, how important are these? How are you guys ranking these? And let me talk about, okay, so the top three things are X, Y, and Z. I've done X and Y. And here's how I did them. Does that match up with what your needs are? Z, I haven't done. However, here's the process I followed with Z cause I've done many parts of it. So, so the idea of really honing in on what is, what is the core of this and how much of what I've done either I've done directly, or I have a well map process to do it. Does that make sense?

Rushab Kamdar: 8:23

It makes perfect sense. How can job candidates take that and then develop their brand, right? You know, essentially we see their story, but I think you know, these days, everyone is kind of having some type of, of, uh, aura around them. Like what do they, who are they, you know, so what do you, what do you teach job candidates around that, that side?

Mike Manoske: 8:42

Almost the first thing we do as a brand statement. And, you know, you honing in on this is really important. Uh, and you know this from your work that the ability to explain who you are, whether it's in a formal job interview, whether it's in an email to somebody or just a casual conversation, uh, is critical. And you know, your brand statement is, is going to be based a little bit on what, you know, the market needs are. What do you want to do with those and what are you good at? Um, so it's just it, it's, you're going to do a little bit of research and learning to really build your brand statement. But the idea is I don't want, as a recruiter, a brand statement say, I have 18 years of this. Then I did this. Then I did this. I can read that. I want to understand what are the underlying skills you have, the wins you've had and the stuff that you want to do that's going to help my organization. Does that, does that answer your question? Does that.

Rushab Kamdar: 9:36

Absolutely. Yeah, it does. Uh, you know, I, I think there's also, sometimes I've heard this before and maybe you can speak real quickly on this, but sometimes people feel they have to get very personal in their story to, to relate and connect on the human to human side of a, um, interviewer. What do you feel about that? Do you think it's more read the room or do you feel that that should always be part of a story?

Mike Manoske: 10:01

I think. It's a, it's a, it's a great question. So there is read the room, you know, are, are, are you feeling a connection that you want to? I would add elements of your personal life that reinforce your core message. I wouldn't just go and I do this because it may not tie into everything else that I, um, what I'm interested in when I talk to somebody as a recruiter is I want to understand those key inflection points in your career. Why did you go from this to this? That's a really interesting step. Tell me about that. That's the stuff I want to find out about. Now, you're not going to cover all this in a single brand statement, but you know, if, if for example, you're emphasizing, you know, what, I love trying new things. And I, I've, I've made some interesting pivots in my career because I saw growth and potential. And it's funny, you know what, I find that, um, that's how I got involved in, you know, in playing the sport. It was new to me and I went out and I really enjoyed it. That's a great addition but if you just simply plopped it in the middle of his story, without any connection and structure, it it's TMI. Too much information.

Rushab Kamdar: 11:13

Thank you for that. Um, so I'm going to leave you off of this question, Mike. A lot of, a lot of the people that I target are, are entrepreneurs as well. And many entrepreneurs who have, whether they've successfully exited their company, or unfortunately their company went under are potentially returning back to the job market. And because of that gap or hiatus, uh, from prior, previously working into Corporate America or industry, I would say. They find difficulty in finding a job. So, what advice do you have for those specific types of job candidates? You know, the ones that have been away from industry and are trying to make their way back.

Mike Manoske: 11:53

I've done it, you know, directly. You know, I ran a company. I left after five years and reentered and I, I understand the nervousness, um. What I would say is you, anybody who has run a business, no matter what the outcome of that business, you have learned tremendous things. That knowledge you've gained is transferable. Particularly if you can talk about, okay, this is what I've learned. These are the processes I set up. Do these processes help the organization going? And these are the knowledge areas that I become really good at. Can I help in those places? You know, is what I learned around marketing helpful? Is what I've learned around operations helpful? Finance. Whatever the case you have, the range of what you've done as an entrepreneur does translate back into an organization. The problem is we try to, we try to shoehorn ourselves. When, if you walk in with a more of a consultative approach going, hey, what are the bigger problems you guys are facing that you're not walking going let me just apply for jobs and cross my fingers. Start talking to people even if the organizations you're interested in don't even have a role. I, countless stories of people doing that because you've solved so many different problems as an entrepreneur. You can help organizations in a lot of ways. Go find their problems. Don't find a role. Does that make sense?

Rushab Kamdar: 13:13

It does. Completely does make sense. Uh, you know, and one thing I want to leave off also with is that, you know, during this entire interview we talked specifically about job candidates that have made it to the interview process, right, to the interview rounds. And we're, we're giving, you're giving advice on how they can be better candidates during that, that process. But there is also another step before that, which is to get to the interview. We don't have to talk about it today, but you know, I'm just curious. Do you also teach these students how to network?

Mike Manoske: 13:45

Absolutely.

Rushab Kamdar: 13:45

Because we know that the application process, um, is, uh, not the, the ideal way most people get jobs, right? It's not the best way. Most people get jobs through networking or talking to other people. So, you know, do you do that as well? Do you teach anybody who's ever interested in working with you?

Mike Manoske: 14:00

It's a massive part of my role. It's a massive part of my work and it's, um, really explaining to people that there's three outreach methods. You know, there's check in people, you know, well, and how you check in with them. There's exploration. There may not be even, even be a job, but what the person, the other person has done is interesting, their journey or the, the company they're in, or even the industry. And then there's a job specific reach out. They're all similar. But there's, there's nuances to each one. And our, our goal in JSAG and, and in our book and in my coaching has really been around how do you do this effectively? And that's one of the key things is people who have done this effectively start to find out they don't have to do as many applications as before. Because the, and you sustain this network, the network sustains your career. I mean, there's a, there's a, and you've seen this, I know you've seen this. Um, there's such a correlation between dialogue to opportunity that it's such an, it's such an opportunity that people, many people don't dive into.

Rushab Kamdar: 15:08

Absolutely. No, I appreciate that. And, um, you know, I I've, I've been in those shoes too. When I, when I was graduating in my MBA program, um, I, when I left an exec, I left an entrepreneur endeavor, went into my MBA program and I was thinking to go back into industry I was. But in order for me to get in, I had to network because I was an entrepreneur. I had a, essentially not a linear career progression resume, right? I had a very entrepreneurial resume. So I had to, I had to, uh, connect with people, speak the language of business, relate with them for them to basically say, hey, we're going to put your resume in. So I agree with you on, on specifically how people should go about it. And I liked those three categories that you were talking about. Those are very important skill sets for people to develop. So I appreciate you saying that.

Mike Manoske: 15:53

Well, and they, they take what you've done. I'll just, I don't mean to cut you off, but you take the ability to speak the language of business with a structure like this, that's powerful. So I think that, yeah, that's where, where you're at is significant in all this.

Rushab Kamdar: 16:09

Well, thank you, Mike. You have a podcast, correct?

Mike Manoske: 16:12

We are, we are building one. It, you know, it's a matter of time. I, I, and, and when we do get it up, you're getting an email. We'd love to have you on.

Rushab Kamdar: 16:22

Oh, no, I appreciate that. Appreciate it. So with that, I want to really sincerely, thank you, Mike, for being a guest on the Business 360 Podcast.

Mike Manoske: 16:29

Oh, thank you, Rushab. Great to be here. I love your mission. Um, and anytime,

Rushab Kamdar: 16:37

Thank you for joining us on the Business 360 Podcast. To learn more about our guests, go to ThinkBusiness360.com. In life, I follow two things that keep me grounded. Number one, if you only listen to someone's successes and not their failures, you've only heard half this. And number two, compete with yourself and help everyone else. Stay classy, Business Heroes.