National Poetry Month ft. Jennelle Karmin

April is National Poetry Month, so we sat down with our good friend Jennelle Karmin and talked about her new poetry book called She is Hope Personified illustrated by Jolene Mackie.

Books talked about in this episode:

Good Neighbours by Sarah Langan
The Paper Palace by Miranda Cowley Heller
Hello Beautiful by Ann Napolitano
Atomic Anna by Rachel Barenbaum
Really Good, Actually by Monica Heisey

Find Jennelle @jennellekarminwrites_
and find her book at www.karmycbazaar.com
While you're at it, check out Jolene Mackie too @jolene.mackie.art

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Transcript

[00:00:00] 

Shanna: Yeah. Hello everyone you are listening to in Her Good books. I'm 

Jennelle: Shannon. And I'm Jen. And this 

Jen: is a podcast. We're two friends Talk. Books. April is National Poetry Month. So this week we have a very wonderful guest. Her name is Janelle carmen Woo. She has just released a book of her poetry and we are going to talk about that a little later in the show. But for now, you should all know that she is the founder of what Shannon and I call other book club. But of course to her, our book club is other book. Hi, Janelle. 

Jennelle: Hello. 

Jen: Thanks for joining us today.

Jennelle: Thanks for having me. 

Shanna: Usually we start the show off by talking about the books that we've been reading lately. Uh, we won't put you on the spot by making you go first. So Jen, what are you reading? 

Jen: So I read a [00:01:00] book called Good Neighbors by sarah Langin. it was described as Celeste ANGs enthralling Dissection of Suburbia meets Shirley Jackson's Creeping Dread. So that sounded very interesting to me. Mm-hmm. It is, About this Long Island suburb where everything is like picture perfect, but this family moves into the neighborhood who doesn't quite fit in. I think they're like from New Jersey or something. And you know, they have like the accent and the big boobs. And the fake hair and the tattoos and stuff anyways, they don't fit into the neighborhood and then, Something happens where a sinkhole opens up in the middle of a park during like a 4th of July barbecue or something, and then teenage girl falls into it. And somehow just by like a chain of gossip a rumor starts that, that the girl is running away from the dad of the family that [00:02:00] doesn't fit in because he raped her. Wow. And then it just goes along. This weird, I don't know. I didn't like it. 

Shanna: I was gonna say, I don't think you liked this book. 

Jen: Okay. No, no, that's not true. I did. I liked it by the end, but I almost gave up on it because it was just day after day of suburbia, it's just so much of what is shown on the outside as being perfect, but then you kind of see on the inside that it's not, so that was kind of interesting that it was just so many chapters of that because it, it was supposed to be this creeping dread and It's supposed to be horror. I was just waiting for something like horrible to happen. Yeah. Like a kid falling into a sinkhole. That's horrible. But it wasn't horror. 

Shanna: So she's saying by the end of it, I liked it, but I can see her face and you can't. Guys, she didn't like this book. Oh yeah. I don't know why she's even being kind to it, but, oh,[00:03:00] 

Jen: so you get to the end, you're like, okay, there's layers and you peel away the layers and you see the truth. Mm. But no, nothing really happened. There was a moment where I thought it was getting a little Stephen King, like a little bit of. You know it action where the kids, go underground to face the monster, but the monster is really just who you're pretending to be. Oh, okay. And secrets. And it wasn't that interesting. 

Jennelle: Yeah, not selling me on this one. 

Jen: No. I don't really recommend it. So that was kind of disappointing and I really wanted to just give up on it about halfway but you know, of course I do the thing where I don't look at what books are actually about, I just see people that I'm like, yeah, I think you know what? I like to read. You posted that, you read this, you didn't say anything about it. You just said, Hey, here's some horror books. And I just read [00:04:00] them. So I think I need to reevaluate how I get my booked recommendations. Yes. Um, yeah, this one there, there was no creeping dread. I mean, I guess so 

Shanna: I would just like to, um, just rewind the tape here. I liked it by the end.

Jen: Well, yeah, but it was like the last page and I was like, oh. Okay. I kind of see what they were trying to do, but maybe 

Shanna: you meant that you liked it, you liked the end, you liked that it ended. 

Jen: Yes. Maybe. I like it was over and I was like, thank you. Good. Uh, yeah. Anyways, 

Shanna: did you read anything? Good? 

Jen: Well, uh, good. Did I read anything Good. Um, I also read the Paper Palace by Miranda, costly Hell. So I started this book a while ago, and then I dfd it because[00:05:00] right at the beginning there's a scene where a wife just blatantly has sex with someone who's not her husband, pretty much like five feet away from her husband. Hmm. And that made me not happy. Yeah. 

Shanna: Uh, a little too on point. Yeah. I was just, these days I 

Jen: was just like, Nope. You know, it's one thing cheating on your husband, but you know, maybe just don't do it while he's inside the house, like right next to you. It's just too far. Anyways, I didn't like that, so I was like, whatever.

But then I heard somebody talking about the book and they mentioned a murder. Ooh. I was like, well, I like murder. I hate cheating. Murder is totally fine though. 

Shanna: It's really the only answer, right? Yeah. No. Oh, from the record. 

Jen: Um, so yeah, so I was like, okay, well I'll give it another try. So yeah, we start off with, Elle the wife cheating on her, you know, parent, really great [00:06:00] husband with her childhood best friend. So then they go back and forth in time with her growing up with him and stuff that happens, and then present day where she has to now make a decision between her husband. This other man, 

Shanna: that's not a choice. She already made the choice. Mm-hmm. When she married the husband. 

Jennelle: Yep. Right? 

Jen: Yep. Yep. I know. 

Shanna: I have strong opinions. Yeah. 

Jen: Yes. As you should. So in the end, I thought that it was fine. I absolutely hated the cheating parts. It happens a few times throughout the book, and is just, Oh, really? Rage inducing. But all the stuff that happened in the past and the murder was interesting.

Hmm. So, in the end I did like it. but I really hate stories too, where people just waste their whole lives pining after someone or each other or like being in love with each other or whatever, and just not ever [00:07:00] doing anything about it. And sometimes in the story it makes sense. There's a reason why they're not together. But in this story, the reason why they weren't together was stupid it didn't really make sense, so I was like, well, why did you just spend your whole lives being in love with each other and not doing anything about it, and then just wait until you're both married and your spouses are sitting in the house and then do something about it.

Jennelle: Bad timing.

Shanna: Oh, sorry, Janelle. Um, here, let's just rewind the tape in the end. I liked this book, but I did hate most of it.

Jen: I know. So I don't know what I like. I don't know what I want. I don't know. 

Shanna: It's okay. That's also the vibe these days.

Jen: I'm just trying so. I just can't do it. It's okay. 

Shanna: None of us can do it. 

Jennelle: No. Didn't sell me on this one either, Jen. [00:08:00] No, 

Jen: the, and the thing is, I don't know how to explain what a book's about without saying everything. Mm. I know other people are really good like in other book club, people will say kind of what the whole story is without giving any spoilers and I. I'm just like, there's a woman and a man and they cheat. That's the story, uncle Willie. Yeah, right. So , paper Palace, it's like a huge buzzy book. People are really obsessed with it. It wasn't that great. It was fun. 

Shanna: Yeah. I guess just not for, not for you.

Jen: Not for me. 

Shanna: Sounds like Not for me too. 

Jen: Not for you. I would definitely highly recommend you do not read 

Shanna: it. Yeah. I'm gonna throw that on my long list of books. I'm not reading right now. Yeah.

Jen: Uh, and then I read one called Hello Beautiful by Anna. Paula. 

So this one came on my radar because it was described as a homage [00:09:00] to, Louisa May Alcott's little women, 

Shanna: which you have not read. 

Jen: Which I have not read. 

Jennelle: What 

Jen: No. Have you? 

Jennelle: Yes, 

Jen: you have? 

Jennelle: Yes. 

Jen: Oh, how was it? 

Jennelle: Well, uh, it was so long ago. I can't really comment, 

Jen: but uh, I feel bad about not reading. Because it just feels like one of those books that I definitely should have read. But I was obsessed with the Winona Rider movie. 

Shanna: I still haven't seen any of the movies either. 

Jen: Ah, the movie's so good. 

Jennelle: I don't know if I've seen it. I'm really bad for falling asleep in movies. Oh yes. And then it's that whole thing of, did I see it? This looks familiar. And then we start it and I'm about halfway through. No, I don't think I've seen it. So

Shanna: I haven't seen the second half of this movie. Exactly. 

Jen: One time I went to the movies with Janelle. Oh. And I looked over, we were watching V for Vendetta and I was like, wow, this is such a great movie. And I look over and Janelle is literally just snoring in the seat beside me.

Jennelle: I was really tired. I

Jen: was like, what? I didn't know [00:10:00] that people could fall asleep in movie theaters. 

Jennelle: Oh, yeah. Easily. 

Shanna: I used to ask my 

dad all the time if he would wanna go to a movie, and he would just say, why would I spend that much on a nap? 

Jennelle: I understand. Yeah. 

Jen: so anyways, this one's also Oprah's book Club pick right now, so it's about this boy named William Waters and in the first few pages he is born, and then just days later, his sister, who is I think a toddler at the time, dies of the illness. Oh 

Shanna: I've changed my stance from last week. Back on the No Dead kids train. Yeah.

Jen: Yeah. She just had a moment last week, but she's back ish. Um, so, and it was this ruins his parents and they're unable to connect with him and he kind of grows up just taking care of himself and his parents just, they give him what he needs to physically survive, but that's about it. [00:11:00] Hmm. Um, and then he discovers basketball at a really young age and falls in love with it and goes to college on a scholarship. And there he meets a woman named Julia and they fall in love and he becomes really close with their family and she has three sisters, and 

Shanna: how many of them does he sleep with? 

Jennelle: Oh, oh no. 

Shanna: I've heard this story before. 

Jen: Least at least half of them, maybe. so yeah, we have four sisters and it's kind of cute because they all have their roles like in little women, how we have like the artsy one, the caretaker and the, 

Shanna: sorry, I just thought the artsy one, the fartsy one. Just one stinky one. Yeah, 

Jen: probably. 

Shanna: Um,

Jen: So it's really mostly about kind of this connection between the sisters and [00:12:00] William it's like, you know, in little women we've got, um, what's the guy's name? Dammit, you know, Christian Bale, teddy it's kinda like how he's brought into the family. But then, you know, he is in love with one and then he is in love with the other and there's like drama there. I didn't really feel like a whole lot happened. I mean, it did, stuff happened, but it wasn't a super enthralling read, but it kind of felt really comfortable. Like I never really wanted to put it down. It just felt kind of nice to listen to and. 

Shanna: yeah, this one sounds like you might've actually liked it.

Jen: I did. I liked it. I thought the writing was really good. I really liked all the sisters, but this was another one where you have people that love each other that just don't speak to each other for years. And in this case it was sisters, something happens and it kind of tears them apart and then they just don't talk to each other for 20 years or 25 years, and it's just, duh.

Just talk to each other. Just make up just anything. Do [00:13:00] anything, say anything. So that kind of annoyed me, but overall, it was cute. I liked it. Well, it was okay. It's not cute. Sounds adorable. It's only cute because of the little women stuff, but it is kind of sad and deals with suicide and, cancer and you know, more sad stuff.

Sad stuff. Yeah. So I don't wanna sell it as a cute book because I've made this mistake before. You have. I just got in trouble. Um, Someone in other book club read tomorrow and Tomorrow and tomorrow, and they went into the book expecting this really sweet, cute, nice, funny story. But really lots of sad stuff happens in that book a lot.

Shanna: I still haven't finished it. Yeah. I plan on finishing yet in 2023. 

Yes. 

Jen: Yes. They, they were like, This was not what I signed up for. They still liked it, but they were not expecting to be ruined. [00:14:00] So yeah, this book isn't just cute, but it was good. Nice. 

Jennelle: Yeah. 

Shanna: Well, thank you. You have inaccurately described your feelings for three books.

Yes, 

Jen: Shall I assume you're reading nothing? Hey, 

Shanna: I just read the almost entire manual for a board game. Wow. Ooh. That's not nothing. That's 

Jen: not nothing. 

Shanna: been reading the, um, subtitles on. So that's like 20 minutes of reading per episode.

Yeah. Not watch like one episode every six days. So that's a little bit of reading. Yeah, I've read plenty of work emails, um, some textbook. Uh, but as far as anything interesting, no. No, I have read literally nothing.

Jen: Well that's one of the reasons why we have janelle.[00:15:00] 

Shanna: One of the many reasons. 

Jen: So what about you, Jennelle? What are you reading? 

Jennelle: I am about three quarters of the way through Atomic Anna by Rachel Baren. So I've had people on both ends of the spectrum with this one. Some people loved it. Some people really, really hated it, and the jury's still out for me.

So this book is about time travel. Our main character, her name is Anna. She essentially created the atomic bomb and she was working directly on. Cher Noble when there was the nuclear meltdown. But through her years of doing all of her scientific research and experiments, she discovers a way to travel through time, and she ends up basically wanting to go back in time and prevent turnover.[00:16:00] 

There's also a lot going on with her family and some of them are living in America. Some are in the U S S R and her quest to undo all of the damage from Tur Noble turns into a quest to also save some of her family members. So it jumps around a lot in time and we get the perspective of Anna and.

Her daughter and then her granddaughter, and just how all of their lives are affected by all these decisions that are made in the family. And she's jumping through all of the time periods and trying to fix everything. And as she's time traveling, her body and her mind are getting sicker and sicker, so her hands burn terribly each time she travels because she's actually touching. The different waves in the ether, I guess we could say. Yep. It gets a little scientific at times. [00:17:00] Sounds great. It's really good. Yeah, so I think I'm enjoying it, but it's weird. I'll go a little chunk of the story and I'm like, oh, this is really boring. Nothing's happening. They haven't even really talked about cherno, and then I get sucked into the story of the family members. So yeah, jury's still out, but. We'll see, I'm a sucker for time travel. Me too. Me too. Mm-hmm. And I have this fascination with Cher Noble as well, somewhere I would like to actually go Yeah. And see all the craziness there, but I think I'd be terrified at the same time. Mm-hmm. Yes, definitely. So yeah. And then prior to that I read, really good actually by Monica.

Story. Monica, I hope I got your last name right. And that was really good. It was very funny, lots of rye, kind of dark humor about, our main character who goes through an unexpected divorce [00:18:00] and just sort of her path to healing. So she kind of hits rock bottom, starts to come back up, hits rock bottom again.

Shanna: Hits rock bottom again. Comes up a little. Guess just horrifically depressed again. Is this Yes. Show goes. Oh yes, exactly. Weird, weird. So this is normal. Yeah. You said it was called really good. Actually. Let me just write that down. 

Jennelle: Check it out. Check it out. It was really sweet and funny. And then there's these little sections that I really enjoyed where it'll be her, uh, Google searches between a certain time period, and it'll just be this, these point form, like, and it just, you just watch her kind of go down the rabbit hole of that google search.

Shanna: I desperately wish I had all of my Google searches listed out for me. Oh, it would be. 

Jennelle: I think we would all feel that way. Right? 

Jen: Yeah, yeah. No, I don't need it. 

Jennelle: And then she'll have lists in between some of the chapters of things that made me cry from this time [00:19:00] period to this time period. And it's just, it's so realistic and just heartwarming, funny and sweet and anyway, it's a great book. I had been wanting to read it for a long time and it did not disappoint.

Shanna: Is that it? Oh my gosh. You too. There's only five books between you. 

Jen: Oh, my. I know. I mean, I could go on. It's okay, but I won't. yeah, I, 

Shanna: uh, can't do it guys. We'll see. Maybe in two weeks I'll have a exciting update if I read a book, do not hold your breath. I don't wanna kill anyone, but, you know, could happen.

Jen: It has happened. 

Shanna: It has happened before. Mm-hmm. 

Jennelle: It will happen again. Took the words right into my mouth. Oh, sorry, here.

Jen: So before we get into talking about Janelle's book, I wanted to mention. because in our last episode we talked about the changes to rolled dolls books, and I just read an article in The Guardian that talked about how Agatha [00:20:00] Christie's books are also going to be updated. And Shannon is a big Christie fan. I really am. And I know that you have read some that. Questionable. 

Shanna: Yes. Mm-hmm. Sometimes you'll be just reading along and it'll be a fun little murder mystery. Everyone's having a bit of a laugh, and then somebody will just say really weird mean stuff about Jewish people for like, I don't know, four or five sentences and it just goes back to normal. Like, huh, that was weird. But you know, I could do without. 

Jen: Yeah, I'm all four. I think we're removing derogatory terms from older books. 

Jennelle: Absolutely. Yeah. 

Jen: I think as adults we're able read them and be like, okay, well that's just old timey. Mm-hmm. Crap.

Ignore that. Yeah. So I don't think it's quite as necessary in adult. But I would still prefer to not read. 

Shanna: Yeah, read it. Just, just put something on there that [00:21:00] says, kind of like when you read in abridged book, something that says like, I don't know, modified, edited, changed for whatever. So people don't think of reading the original. If you wanna read that old racist crap, you know? Or if you're some sort of purist. Okay. I get. I can be a weird completionist too, but, uh, yeah, I just think having the choice doesn't hurt. 

Jen: also this is not the first time her books have been updated. They've been racist for a long time. Ooh. Yep. And as we get better at knowing what's okay and what's not okay, things get updated. Mm-hmm. It's just how it goes. So, 

Shanna: um, Come at me. Yeah. Come at, come at me again. Totally 

Jen: okay with it. 

Shanna: We're gonna be, uh, personally isolating racists this time.

Yeah. So 

Jen: that's okay with me. I'm totally okay with isolating racist. 

Jennelle: Yeah. 

Jen: Okay, so onto [00:22:00] Janelle. So 

Shanna: who? Yeah.

Jen: your poetry book is called 

Jennelle: She Is Hope Personified, and it's been a project in the works for probably about four years. I was looking at how to. Basically personify different emotions as people and what it would be like to interact with them. So what would it be like to have grief as a pen pal? how would it feel to sit down for dinner with fear, visit hope's garden, et cetera? 

Jen: I haven't read a ton of your poetry, but I've heard you recite a few times at different shows. And the poems that I've heard you recite. I've always been kind of dark and twisty and macab, and I found these ones to be so different. They were more. 

Shanna: I have not read any, but I sure did purchase it right away.

I [00:23:00] got very excited when she announced. Goodbye it. And so I was all excited. I was like, yep, done. Did it. And then I got a text from her saying, you're my first sale. And I just, ugh. I love carrying that honor. When you write my biography, make sure you throw that in there. Okay. Yeah. Perfect, 

Jen: perfect. Most important part. 

Jennelle: That's right. Oh God, 

Shanna: I, I mean, I love you, Janelle, but I do hope that my biography has at least one thing more exciting. 

Jennelle: Many more, 

Jen: many more.

Yeah. So what made you go in that direction of writing about different emotion? 

Jennelle: I don't even know really where it started. I just, I never have much of a plan for what I'm going to write. So I think it started with a piece about fear and it ended up reading more, kind of like a short story, but it just really had me thinking about that.[00:24:00] 

And I ended up rewriting fear. It didn't, the way it is in the book isn't how it all started, but it was really dark at first and delightfully dark. Mm-hmm. But just, I don't know, it didn't feel right. So this ended up sort of being my first poetry project. And I do like themes for things. So I sat down and wrote out a whole bunch of different emotions and I would just add to this list all the time, and then ended up picking which ones I wanted to elaborate upon.

But it happened during a really strange time in my life. My marriage was not going well and. I was spending more time writing and I find I write better. When something bad is happening, my emotions come out. I think that's normal for lots of writers. Yep, yep. 

Jen: I can attest to that as well. 

Jennelle: So over the years, it ended up [00:25:00] sort of following my journey of having a marriage in trouble to a marriage ending to kind of getting my life back on track.

Falling in love again. So it took a really cool arc during that time and none of that was planned. And yeah, it just sort of took on its own little life and he is here. 

Jen: it was interesting reading it and being able to see this little journey happening in your own words on these pages. It was really cool. 

Jennelle: Oh, thank you. 

Shanna: Do we wanna tell them how you guys know each other? Because you guys know each other better than I know Janelle anyways. 

Jen: Yes. Um. Janelle and I have known each other for about 17 years. 

Jennelle: Oh, I feel so old. I know. I was like, oh, when we were 18. That was just yesterday, right?

Jen: Yep, yep. Yeah. Nope, that was a long time ago. Really long time ago. yeah, we both. Worked [00:26:00] at, muffins Plus Cafe. Yes, we did. Um, which was the first job that I got fired from. Although, nope, I didn't get fired. I said I quit. 

Shanna: Yeah. As they were firing. Yeah. And I storm no. Alex says that's the first job, but not the last.

Jen: Okay. Well, it's the only job, but to be fair, 

Shanna: what happened at Wendy's? 

Jen: Wendy's. 

Shanna: thought you bullet the place on fire. 

Jen: Oh, that was, that was a w and I was not fired from that. That was a, that was an accident. But there was fire involved. Yes, there was fire involved. That is another story, guys. Um, I mean, doesn't matter why I got, was getting fired, but, basically my boss.

Just so you know, I've hired someone else and you will be training them and then you'll be fired. And I said, I think not. Yeah, and I just left instead. Okay. She was [00:27:00] firing me because I tried to get tickets to a concert while on shift. Mm, that's right. Yeah. 

Jennelle: Oh, it's all coming 

Jen: back in. It's all coming back. Mm-hmm. But it was okay. It wasn't a big deal. 

Jennelle: It 

Shanna: is hard to remember that far back. 

Jen: Whatever. I met Janelle, it was a really weird job. She knows. 

Jennelle: That's a really weird job. Yeah. All kinds of drama and strange occurrences. Yes. 

Jen: Fist fights between the boss and her sister-in-law. Yes. Over top of Janelle's head. Yes. In the, in the office. 

Shanna: But you guys worked out, so that's nice. Yes. 

Jennelle: Yeah. Did got that amazing friendship with

But 

Shanna: speaking of friends, The art in Janelle's book is incredible. So her best friend is Jolie Mackey, who is an artist that I'm in love with. Here I'll describe it in detail. I'm really good at describing, okay.

Okay. It's a lady and she's got flowers coming out of her. And she's pouring water. I'm not good at that. I'm sorry. [00:28:00] I lie. 

Jennelle: I lie. I was on the edge of my seat. Sh. If 

Shanna: you could see it though, you would see it's beautiful. I'm sure we will put pictures up on our socials, but yes, I'll show that 

Jennelle: you Tell me about Jolene.

So yeah, I've known Jolene since high school. Actually. We, it's strange. We, I think we had a class together. I think we were in social studies. I remember this strange little memory in my head of her. Sitting, I think like a row over from me, kind of in my peripherals. But, uh, we got to know each other as adults.

We, she was there, uh, at different markets selling her amazing artwork. And at the time I was doing leather work, so leather jewelry and head pieces and things like that. And we got to be friends. We ended up sharing, uh, like an artist collective space together and. I couldn't think of a better person to illustrate my book.

I see lots of amazing poetry books out there, but I'm a huge Rui core fan, [00:29:00] and she always has these illustrations accompanying her poems, and so I wanted something reminiscent of that. But of course, Our own style to accompany the poems. So I asked Jolene if she wanted to come on board and gave her the file with all the poetry and she picked the pieces that, spoke to her the most.

And it was really cool to see the poems come alive in that way. So yeah, her illustrations are beautiful and yeah, I'm just so happy to have this project move my. 

Shanna: Yeah, it's very cool. Nobody knows you quite like your best friend will, so it's just cool to have your work represented by somebody who knows you so intimately. So it's going to really connect together and it, it flows. It looks stunning. 

Jennelle: Thank you. 

Shanna: You're welcome. 

Jennelle: And she was a big part of the whole journey of everything canceling. [00:30:00] Uh, flights to San Francisco pretending to be me cuz I couldn't emotionally do it and all kinds of different things. So yeah. Perfect person to, to help me out and yeah, she did all our design work and everything. She's a lady of many talents

Jen: yeah. So if anyone is interested in buying a copy of the book, you will not only be getting these really, really great poems, but. One of a kind art. Mm-hmm. And Jolene is such a great artist, it's definitely worth seeing. 

Shanna: have so many talented friends. Ugh. Sorry, I'm just bragging about my friends. 

Jennelle: It's always good. Brag away. 

Jen: I was just wondering for all the writers out there, if you wanted to talk a little bit about your writing process, what do you do? What gets you. In the mood for writing. Do you like light a candle and make a tea or 

Shanna: little bit of essential oils? 

Jen: You can only write at night or[00:31:00] 

Jennelle: It is very specific. Uh, I can't write at home. I can't write at work. I have to be in a coffee shop. I can't write using a computer. It has to be old school with a notebook and.

Chai tea lattes are my favorite thing. Especially from the bean scene. Of course. Yeah. It's just something about that background noise and I find I end up sort of gravitating towards other people that are working on something in the coffee shop. I don't, it's strange, I like background noise, but if I'm too close to a conversation I just end up eavesdropping without wanting to, so yeah, I end up sitting by what looks like, you know, people studying.

Working on projects, whatever. And so that energy kind of motivates me to, to sit down and work as well. So yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's good. Except for during the pandemic, I didn't do any writing because I couldn't go anywhere. And people suggested putting on, cause there's actually tracks out there that are like, coffee shop sounds, so they'll be like, [00:32:00] you know, the tinkle of dishes or whatever.

And the, the background noises. That just doesn't do it for me. So yeah, coffee shops 

Jen: all the way. Yeah. I can't ride at home either. Like I can, but I have to have like a perfectly clean house and I need to have my coffee and I need to have no kids. And it's too many things that needs to all come together, so I don't even hardly bother trying.

Shanna: It's very hard to get those 

Jennelle: stars to. Totally. Yeah. I just see all the things that need to be done. We've got a puppy who is amazing but wants to be with me at all times. Yeah, it just doesn't work. No. But yeah, coffee shop. Perfect. 

Jen: Yep. Agreed. Um, I made a note here cause I just wanted to talk without cilantro for a minute. You. And just cuz this has just been on my mind and it's funny and it's a nightmare to me. So Janelle told me this story about how she used to [00:33:00] love cilantro and everyone should know I love cilantro, said my favorite food. So I put it on everything and way too much. And everyone thinks I'm crazy. And then Janelle told the story where she said that she used to love it and then one day she woke up and she. Yeah, absolutely hates it.

Jennelle: Yeah. Can't stand it. It's so strange. I know. I went to have something, I think it was maybe guacamole and I used to put lots of cilantro into it, and it's like, oh, what is that horrible flavor? It's so soapy. Oh no. And yeah, I realized that suddenly my taste buds had changed and yeah, cilantro was no more.

Jen: So then today I was having my normal suit for lunch and I had put on my normal two cups of cilantro on top. And had the kind of this moment where I thought maybe this is too much cilantro. And then I was like, oh no, what if it's happening to me too? Because usually there, there's not too much. But I mean, there was a lot. Yeah, your story has just been kind of haunting me. 

Shanna: It's got that [00:34:00] creeping dread like Shirley Jackson 

Jen: creeping dread. Cause you know, I've considered, maybe I should get a cilantro tattoo. What if I got a cilantro tattoo and then I hated a cilantro? That'd be really upsetting.

Shanna: I, I couldn't imagine getting a tattoo and then hating it later. Oh my God. Yeah. 

Jen: Okay. Just so everyone knows whatever story I have, Shana has a worst one.

Shanna: Guess what? I win baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Jennelle: Oh, we can go. Was it book lovers?

Shanna: Where, which was what I've considered doing to my tattoo is where he didn't like his tattoo anymore, and so we just got a. Blob over it. Yeah. 

Jen: Yep. But speaking of book lovers, there's a movie coming out. Yes. So Book Lovers by Emily Henry. We love it. Love it. And yeah, there's gonna be a movie. We're definitely gonna be watching it. I'm very excited. Oh yeah. 

Shanna: You know what's super hot, [00:35:00] guys? You Reid? Yep. 

Jennelle: Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. Huge turn on. Huge. Have you heard who is acting in that movie? 

Jen: I have not. I was supposed to read the article, but I didn't. 

Shanna: Oh, I wish I had fan cast it. I can't even imagine who I'd put in it though. I mean, generic hot I guess would work. Yeah. But. Pedro Pascal, he'll give in everything. 

Jen: He's a little outta the age range. 

Shanna: Oh no. I'll take him. Period. Got a hot Russian guy. Customer, he can be in it. Yeah, that'd be okay. I saw him for the first time today. I thought, why is Jen being so weird about this guy? And then when he left, she was like, oh, well he doesn't speak very much English. She's like, who's that hot rushing guy? 

Jen: Ugh. I was like, yeah, I cannot look at him directly in the eyes. I can't. I can't it. Yeah, it's. Too attractive. He's quite drinking. Aww. So I'll, I'll [00:36:00] jump

Shanna: on the till next time. Yes. Make this happen. Yes. Yes. Give me a hot Russian husband, baby. 

Jen: Yes.

Shanna: I'm so sorry. Hot rushing guy. If you listen to it, 

Jen: I'm sure hot rushing guy is definitely listening 

Shanna: to this podcast. Yeah. Although though you, when we get married, I'll 

Jennelle: play this for him, so, oh, 

Shanna: I love you baby. 

Jen: Right. Janelle, would you like to read us some of your poetry? 

Jennelle: what kind of vibe do we. I didn't wanna be all like doom and 

Jen: gloom. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. 

Shanna: If we had character names, we'd probably be doom and gloom.

We, we like to switch, which 

Jennelle: one we are. They're both Great.

So this piece, uh, is titled Anxiety. Anxiety. Emails Me Late at Night just [00:37:00] before Dawn. Words clipped rambling sentences, wary with worries, her exhaustion evident, unequivocally defeated yet electrified with the thoughts that buzz in her brain.

I bring her Hot Camile tea in Rosebud China. Tiny white cookies, star shaped. Anxieties, Willow wisp pants shake. And I'm reminded of frightened birds who hide an underbrush outside. We sit silently, sunlight soft through floral drapes, cheerfully funerial, her face a waxy moon. Our fingers interlace. Hold on.

Tight.

Jen: So good. It's 

Jennelle: so good. Oh, thank you. Thank 

Jen: you. I love the way that you see. And the words you choose. Mm-hmm. 

Jennelle: Thank you. Thank you. Very good. 

Jen: Thank you for reading for us . 

Jennelle: mm, you're welcome.

Jen: Do you wanna let everyone know where they can find you and your book? 

Jennelle: For sure. [00:38:00] So I'm on Instagram under Janelle Carmen Wrights with an underscore at the end because Instagram did something weird with my first account. I had gotten just Janelle Carmen Wright. Hmm. And yeah. So 

Shanna: is it child porn? Like Jen, 

Jen: Instagram and Facebook suck.

Okay. They do suck. 

Jennelle: Suck. You're gonna get shut down. I love you. They don't, they're great. They didn't mess up my account. No. It shows 

Jen: the underst.

Jennelle: So, yes, Janelle, Carmen. With an underscore. And then, the book is for sale on my small businesses website, karmic bazaar.com. 

Jen: Yep. We can link all those 

Jennelle: perfect. Yeah, and we're doing pre-orders for the book until April 15th, and then there'll be some for sale, in my shop as well. 

Jen: Awesome

Shanna: Well, that's all we have for you today. You can find [00:39:00] us@goodbookspodcast.com. And we are in Her Good Books podcast on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok. Head over there to give us a follow so you never miss out on what we are doing. Or not reading. 

Jen: Uh, so you can never miss out on what I'm doing.

Shanna: Okay. I think actually I do more doing and you do more reading. This is hilarious because Jen does more doing than anybody I've ever known. 

Jen: That's pretty much all I do. She's so much different, constant doing. Um, but while you're at it, rate and review this podcast. It helps you get in our good books by supporting the show and also helps other people find us.

Shanna: Otherwise, we'll see you next week. Just kidding. Otherwise, we'll see you in two 

Jen: weeks. We'll see you in two weeks. Bye-Bye bye.

Shanna: And that's how you record a Photos podcast. 

Jennelle: [00:40:00] Freedom took herself on a date. No need to ask or wait. She simply opened the door and left. Sunlight sparkled, autumn leaves stirred up by favorite boot. Golden Crimson Pumpkin Tangerine, A book of love poems, sometimes the sweetest Dinner mate effervescent lemon tonic, spicy tuna sashimi with words of written worship on her lips.

Freedom spends hours exploring quirky old bookstores. Unhurried hunting for literary treasure. Freedom takes a solitary car cruise. Windows down soft breeze. Swirls hair. Current song obsession on. Nowhere to go. Time to simply be she stops at roadside flower stalls, plush petals plucked, collected dark dahlia's, wistful wisteria, bouquets as big as her beautiful brain freedom, walks herself home, all smiles and promises to do it again soon.

[00:41:00] Grief is an old friend. We're well acquainted, linked by loss. It's a peculiar love. We. His letters arrive unexpected. My fingers shake with a doll ache the envelope, sliced news of the weather. Rainy again. So-and-so had an affair. War crimes down south. Hey, do you still remember the color of her hair? It always reverts to this, the tilt of her head, that cackle of a laugh, memories of her, and the careless truth.

She's gone and isn't coming back. This reality prompts pen to paper. Urges Relu. Reluctant reciprocation, though I long to ignore him, my sad pen pal. Grief is an old friend. We're well acquainted, linked by loss. It's a peculiar love. We share.