The Hobbit, Cher and Killer Mermaids

Books mentioned in this episode:

Bloodletting and Miraculous Cures by Vincent Lam
Night of the Mannequins by Stephen Graham Jones
Rolling in the Deep by Mira Grant
Into the Drowning Deep by Mira Grant
The Hobbit by J.R.R. Tolkien
Tiny Beautiful Things by Cheryl Strayed
Wild by Cheryl Strayed

Dear Sugars Podcast
Sugar Calling Podcast

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Transcript

MAY 3

Shanna: [00:00:00] Hello everyone and welcome to In Her Good Books. I'm Shannon. 

Jen: And I'm Jen. And this is a podcast where two friends talk about good books. Any books pretty much good. Usually sometimes bad. Okay. A lot of times bad. Mostly 

Shanna: no. To be fair, I don't read books. Wait, actually I did read a book this time. Oh, wow.

Okay. 

Jen: Why don't you go first then? Oh, okay. 

Shanna: Well, I didn't actually finish a book. I was gonna lie about it, but then I remembered who I am as a person and that wasn't gonna fly. So I read half a book. But that book is The Hobbit by JR. Toki. So, 

Jen: but you have already read obviously very, 

Shanna: very much and many times.

So it's kind of like I read it all the [00:01:00] way, and to be fair, I barely, it's not that I barely listened to it, it's okay. I'm choosing to read this book because I have no brain power and I've read this book so many times in my life that I can have it playing tune out because I have, I don't know, rage thoughts and then tune back in and it's like I never left.

And turns out that's how I read these days. 

Jen: You have to do it however you can, 

Shanna: however I can, and at least I'm not trying to read books that I've never read before and then completely missing everything and just wasting my time. Mm-hmm. This is my favorite book of all the books. It's the best book, so, you know, at least I can't be mad at it.

It's definitely not the book's fault in this case. 

Jen: I was trying to remember, cuz you had mentioned that you were gonna listen to it and then you said something about it, but I couldn't remember which boring book you had said you were listening to. I'm like, 

Shanna: it's one of those ones. It's so good. To be [00:02:00] fair.

You've never read it. I've 

Jen: tried and then I was so bored that I stopped. 

Shanna: Um, so there's a game that we played once and all I was told was bring a good book. So I brought The Hobbit because it's the best book. Turns out it was not the book to bring. What the heck was that game? Bring your own book. Oh, Hmm. I almost remembered that one all the way.

First try. Okay. But you need to tell how it worked. 

Jen: Um, 

Shanna: I can't remember. Oh, yeah. It gives you like a prompt, like what you should say on a first date. 

Jen: Yes. And then you all look through your books and then you get to. Come up with a line or a paragraph or, 

Shanna: yeah. Turns out tolkin, it's rough.

I didn't bring a backup book. Like I was confident in my choice of book. 

Jen: I can't remember what I brought. 

Shanna: Uh, you brought Shshsh Maguire, the hand with [00:03:00] the fingers, with the candle on it. Come on. It's black. It's got a white hand. It's got a. Finger candle. What? Oh, Shean McGuire. Shannon McGuire. No. Yes you did.

Jen: No, 

Shanna: no. I feel so confident in this one. I dunno. Which is weird. When it comes to my memory, I don't usually feel. 

Jen: What are you Googling? Hand candle Shannon McGuire. 

Shanna: Jen, you know what? Shut up here. It's middle game. What? 

Jen: No. 

Shanna: Have you ever read this book? What? Well, I don't know why I feel so sure that this is the book that you love.

I think 

Jen: I put it on like the wishlist on Audible, maybe. But that was like yesterday, not three years ago. 

Shanna: Well, you know, my memory is shaky. 

Jen: Well, the [00:04:00] game bring your own book is very good. I bet the 

Shanna: next time that we do, it'll be even better. 

Jen: Mm-hmm. Once you know not to bring The Hobbit. Yep. But good. Yeah.

You tried 

Shanna: reading. Yep, I did try it. It's wonderful. I am loving it. So my favorite chapter of my favorite book is Riddles in the Dark in the Hobbit. And so that was like three chapters ago and it was where I stopped last time I was listening cuz I was like, no, I'm gonna enjoy this with whatever I'm doing.

And so that's what I did. That's where I got to start today, right 

Jen: there. So that's the best. And you're not much of a reread. No. At all. So really just this one book, 

Shanna: although, no, there's a few, but this one is like the book that made me fall in love with reading when I was, maybe, I wanna say six-ish. My mom read it to me, my brother at chapter and eight.

And that's like one of my best memories is just snuggling up with her and having her read it out loud to us. And it was like the first time that I listened to a book and [00:05:00] cared and remembered the next day what the heck we were doing. So it's very special to me. I've reread it about a million times. I don't have a lot of comfort reads, but it's 

Jen: like the one one.

I can't imagine your mom reading The Hobbit for some reason. 

Shanna: She used to read great books. 

Jen: Interesting. Not that I believe that she wouldn't read great 

Shanna: books, but No, that's definitely what you said. And I'm telling her no, she had tons of Stephen King, which is why I've read so much. Stephen King. And yeah, some fantasy.

Jen: The Hobbit for sure. I feel like when I think of The Hobbit, I think of this kind of language, the thou hobbit, roli upon thy floor. Um, 

Shanna: that's, I remember that line. It, it's really close at the beginning though. Um, it is. Uh, ye oldie, but what's your point? What's, what's,

it sounds like you're saying that's bad and it's so [00:06:00] great and it's even better when you know what's going on. Mm-hmm. Because that does help.

Uh, maybe that was your problem. Maybe. Yeah. There's also so many goblins. And do you know how I feel about goblins? Love goblins. I'm passionate about goblins good and bad. Yeah. 

Jen: So yeah. Maybe I just didn't get to the goblins part. I was just, I, it was just in the, in their little 

Shanna: hill house. What you, Jen, you read 10 pages of the book?

Jen: Yes. That might be true. 

Shanna: Well, the audio book is great. 

Jen: Okay. Well maybe that would be a better way for me to try it out. Yeah, because I have always been curious. Mostly because I watched a portion of one of the Lord of the Rings movies. What? And 

Shanna: Jen, I've watched those movies more than I've probably watched any other movies.

Yeah. Which is maybe a lie. I've watched a lot of movies. I've watched a couple of movies a lot of times. Yeah. 

Jen: Um, well, [00:07:00] I've seen a portion of, one of them. I don't know which one I was gonna say what was happening. 

Shanna: I feel like. 

Jen: Maybe there was like horses and a waterfall or something. 

Shanna: Ooh, were they going across a lake?

It's not a lake, it's a river. I don't know. And she's all beautiful and she's on her horse and she's like, come to 

Jen: me. Yeah, no. See more action packed than that. 

Shanna: Oh, it is because then they. They come, next guys coming. Then they come to her, but they get out and then the water comes. Okay. And then all the bad guys 

Jen: get swept away.

Yeah. Maybe. I don't know. But I just remember thinking, wow, I really want to see how this is described in the book. Oh. And then I started reading the hobby because I was like, well, I feel like that's where I should start. Or someone told me that I should start there, and then I was like, This sucks. 

Shanna: I think that if you can't get through the Hobbit, the Lord of the Rings will murder you.

Yes, 

Jen: I think so. So, yeah, I'm too scared now. 

Shanna: Yeah, you should be. I thought you were gonna say you watched a portion of that movie and then you thought I should [00:08:00] watch the rest of this movie. 

Jen: No. 

Shanna: So I know what I'm putting on the list of things to torture you with. But yeah, that's it. That's all I've 

Jen: read.

Good job. Thank you. Well, I read a book called Bloodletting and Miraculous Cures by Vincent Lamb. 

Shanna: I should say, I know what this book is and I'm very excited for you. No, I have not read it, but I am excited for you to tell me how great it is. 

Jen: Okay. Why are you excited? 

Shanna: Because it sounds awesome.

Jen: Okay, so this book was a Gillard Prize winner. The Gillard Prize is one of those big. Canadian literature prizes. 

Shanna: I was just gonna make up a whole thing about, I was named after Anthony Giller in the year 1612, but that's bullshit. It's a lie. It's 

Jen: a lie. Didn't you just say that you don't like lying? 

Shanna: I don't like lying for real.

Jen: I guess jokes are kind of lies 

Shanna: that I lie almost [00:09:00] constantly. Yeah. 

Jen: Um, so this book's a little bit older. It is from 2006, which I just thought it was new. I was surprised. No, the cover looks old. Looks, it's just a heart. On the 

Shanna: cover and it's red. And also the one that I've seen is somebody's copy and it's 

Jen: old.

The copy of those look old. Yes. Um, so Vincent Lamb is an ER doctor, and this book is a collection of stories or vignettes that follow four med students as they go through med school and become doctors. And it was described to me as being like Grey's Anatomy. Ooh, that sounds bad 

Shanna: to me. 

Jen: That was very attractive.

Mm-hmm. I was very excited. And at some points of the book, it was very Grey's Anatomy ish. And 

Shanna: those, did somebody have a coma? Lots of kissing. There's 

Jen: yeah, [00:10:00] some like love drama. Mm. There was some weird. Patience. Full disclosure, have 

Shanna: never seen Grey's Anatomy. 

Jen: Yeah. By the way, she does not know what she's talking about.

Yeah. I love the parts that were Grey's Anatomy ish. 

Shanna: Are you about to tell me you didn't like this book? Well, it's not that I didn't like it, 

Jen: but I forget it. Oh. Like I already forget it. It was forgettable to me. Mm-hmm. Um, I had a few good feelings while reading it, and I remember enjoying it ish, but overall I was like, eh.

Now you've read it fine. Yeah, now I've read it and, and it was fine. Um, part of it is set during the SARS epidemic in Toronto in 2004. So that was a little bit interesting just because we've read so many Covid books now. 

Shanna: Sars oof the damage in the lungs, like the glass lung thing is so. Intense. It makes it hard to breathe thinking [00:11:00] about 

Jen: it.

Oh yeah. I feel I'm feeling some pain at the moment. Yeah. That was in 2004 and I feel like that happened recently, but 

Shanna: 2004 sounds recent. It does. 

Jen: It's not. That's when I graduated high school, which was 20 years ago. Wow. Almost. 

Shanna: It's a long, long, 

Jen: long. Long, long 

Shanna: time ago. 

Jen: Yeah. Everyone else at other book club, they have really loved this book.

So I don't know, it just didn't really stand out to me. But I also don't really like books that are collections of stories. Yeah. Like I have a hard time with them. They have to really come together in a interesting way for me to care. Yeah. And. There's some characters that I wanted to know more of and others that I didn't care about as much.

So I don't know. Maybe you would like it more than me. I 

Shanna: feel like based on the people who enjoyed it at [00:12:00] other book club, it would be more me 

Jen: than You. Not enough Blood and Guts in this book for me, honestly, that's, I 

Shanna: I'm kind of disappointed to hear that because I thought it was gonna have a lot of blood and guts.

I just 

Jen: like, yeah, they're, I mean, they have to do some medical stuff, but. Maybe there was some blood and guts, but nothing that was like cool. Nothing. 

Shanna: Yeah. I was hoping for like a, a tree, you know, when people on motorcycles get trees through their guts. Yeah. Like that kind 

Jen: of thing. Okay. There is an episode in Grey's Anatomy.

Yeah. My favorite episode I see there a tree. Oh. Oh. It's a, definitely a tree goes through one woman and goes through her body and imp pales another guy behind her. What? There was like some kind of. I've seen this. I've, I've seen it probably. It's a very sad episode. Oh. And they have to try to cut the tree out, and they're trying to save them both.

But then it turns out that they can only save one of them. Oh. And it's like 

Shanna: Grey's Anatomy Spoilers, Jen. 

Jen: Yeah. Everyone has seen this. [00:13:00] Even you, 

Shanna: you have seen I have seen this one, 

Jen: yes. Um, yeah. Every episode is some weird, crazy medical blood and guts stuff. It's good. I'm gonna go home and watch some Grace Anatomy tonight.

Ugh. Um, but then speaking of blood and guts, I read a novella by Steven Graham Jones called Night of the Mannequins. 

Shanna: Is the cover, like that one I just showed you by sh, what is the name? How do I say it? Sean and Shaan. 

Jen: I didn't even look at the name. I just said that's not it. Oh, 

Shanna: because when you said that title, I instantly saw this book cover.

Jen: Okay, well the book cover, there is a hand Oh, with blood dripping off. Maybe you're becoming some kinda weird psychic witch. I 

Shanna: am not witch becoming, I already a witch. Already am. 

Jen: You are a witch 

Shanna: Usually. I, my intuition is better, but it, it got punched real hard [00:14:00] recently. Yeah, it's just, it's all over the place now.

Jen: Um, so Steven Graham Jones, he wrote The Only Good Indians and My heart is a chainsaw. I really liked the only good Indians. That was really good. I did not like my heart as a chainsaw. I absolutely hated it. Um, did you 

Shanna: Only Good Indians? Um, ghoster. 

Jen: Ghoster? Yeah. Yeah. First I thought you said ghost ear. Mm.

And I was like, that's 

Shanna: more of a mira sort of a bug. Yeah. 

Jen: Yes. Ghost deer. Ghost elk. Ah, yes. And then I realized while I was looking at his books that he has another Nobel called Mapping the Interior, which I. Own. Mm-hmm. But I didn't know it was by him. I felt like spending money one day and I wanted to buy a book, but I like didn't have that much money, so I just bought like the tiniest little sliver of a book that I could find in the horror section.

It's tiny. It's like, it's gotta be just like a short story. It's not a book. Um, but yeah, that's one of his, did you read it? 

Shanna: [00:15:00] Nope. It's so small. I know. 

Jen: I keep looking at it. It keeps haunting me. Mm-hmm. Um, but. I will read it now, but I know it's by him. I guess when I buy books, I should actually look at what the author is, who the author is.

Cause uh, 

Shanna: you were just in like a need to buy a book Haze. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been there. 

Jen: Um, but, so this one night of the Mannequins, it is about a group of teenagers who decide to pull a prank, and I hate 

Shanna: it so far. 

Jen: I know. We hate pranks on this podcast. F 

Shanna: y i, pranks and teenagers iffy. Iffy at best. 

Jen: Um, so their friend works at a movie theater and they pull the prank where they take this mannequin that they have played with since they were kids.

I wish I had a man. 10. Yeah. Do most kids have mannequins? I don't know. We should get ours. 

Shanna: Mannequins. Actually, let's see how the rest of this [00:16:00] book turns out. Side. Yeah. 

Jen: Um, so they sneak this mannequin into the movie theater and they put 'em in a seat, clothes on. Like he's watching the movie and then they get caught.

Well, no, and then they don't get caught. And then, After that night. Yeah. It's a really bad prank. Like they don't really fool anyone. What was the joke? You don't really understand, but after that night, the group of friends start to die. Mm. And it's like, is it the mannequin? 

Shanna: Why would they suspect, 

Jen: well, I don't know if this is a spoiler, but when they're watching the movie, the mannequin just got up and walked.

They were like, that's,[00:17:00] 

Shanna: no, it's good. Okay. Prove it. 

Jen: Oh my God, 

Shanna: that was a big thing.

Jen: Well, I know if like the mannequin coming alive, Was a spoiler, but also it wasn't really explained cuz it doesn't really make sense with the rest of the story. But yeah. Okay. 

Shanna: Now I understand why they would 

Jen: suspect the mannequin. Yeah. Well the, this one kid, the main kid, he suspects that it's he, well he knows.

He knows it's the mannequin and the first person to die, which this was like pretty exciting and you'll be pretty excited, I think the first person to die, her name. Was Shannon? Yes. 

Shanna: Yes. Finally. 

Jen: I know [00:18:00] I'm listening to it and it's like when my friend Shannon died and I was like, right, we Ryan Shannon. I'm like, no.

It said Shannon. Shannon. Yes, Shannon. Nope, Shannon. 

Shanna: No, I know. It's hard to believe anybody else in the world could possibly have this beautiful name. I 

Jen: know it does happen sometimes. Yeah. But yeah, I've never seen it in her book. So, and then you cried and then I cry. I'm crying right now. Oh my God. Um, yeah.

So this one kid, he gets obsessed with the idea. He's the killer. He gets obsessed with this idea that he has to save. Okay, rewind. Shannon gets killed, but also her whole family gets killed. But it's an accident. Something happens in her house that's an accident and kills everybody. Gas explosion? Well, no, but maybe not saying okay.

Although, okay, now I [00:19:00] will say, because this is kind of weird, uh, what happens is that. Semi-truck crashes off the highway into their house. Just like happened in town the other day. Yes. And kills them all. So then in town, in our town, a semi crashed into someone's house and it's still, it's still crashed into the house right now.

We, it's weird. It's so weird. No lived. Yeah. Yeah, they were, no one died. It was not a tragedy. It's just really weird to see a semi just in someone's house for like weeks. It's probably even weirder if you live there. Yeah. Yep. That would be weird. So it's also weird when that happens in real life and then in the book you're reading.

Anyways, um, yeah, the whole family's dead. So this one kid becomes obsessed with the idea that he needs to save the families of every one of his friends because the mannequin is coming to kill them all. Mm-hmm. And he has to intercept somehow to only save [00:20:00] the families. Ah, anyways, I like to 

Shanna: imagine that there was just the flopped over mannequin at the wheel.

Jen: He just gets up and walks away. I know it was the mannequin, um, but it was, it was kind of weird. And it wasn't as funny as we're making it out to be. Um, it was fun. It wasn't what I expected it to be at all. Hmm. No, it did kinda surprise me a little bit. It was short and weird and I'm intrigued. I have not read anything by him.

It's, it's really short. It's like, it's hardly even a Nobel, it's like three hours on audio. Hmm. Kinda remind me of Toy Story a little bit. 

Shanna: You're selling the heck outta this book. I know. 

Jen: Hey, people love Toy Story. [00:21:00] Okay, that's true. Um, cause it talks a lot about how. They all love this mannequin. They played with it all the time when they were little, and they would take it with them on all their camping trips and put it on their dad's motorcycle and stuff.

And they 

Shanna: had parents, right? Yeah. 

Jen: I mean, if, if our kids were walking around with a mannequin, we'd be like, cool mannequins. 

Shanna: I wouldn't even, because I wouldn't, yeah, if Ben was like, look what I found mom. I'd be like, cool. Ask it your questions. 

Jen: Yeah, it was like their favorite toy and then, you know, then they grow up and they forget about it and, 

Shanna: and then the Madigan was 

Jen: angry.

The Madigan was angry then. Oh, so he came back for revenge? Or Diddy? I don't know. I 

Shanna: don't know. Do you wanna do my theory? Hmm.

It's possible that I instantly knew. You can bleep that out. But yeah, I would like guys, [00:22:00] 

Jen: but I was surprised. I 

Shanna: believe you were. You would be surprised 

Jen: I was. Okay, so then I read another Nobel, I'm on a Nobel role. Um, it's called Rolling in the Deep by Mira Grant. Last year I read a book called In the Drowning Deep by Her.

Mm-hmm. I knew it sounded familiar to me. Mm-hmm. So that one was about a research slash documentary crew who sail out to the Marianna Trench and they are looking for evidence that mermaids exist. Love it. Yep. There's a problem because these two books are very similar and they're about the exact same thing.

So this one is about the ship goes out to do this research. Everybody on board disappears, and then they find footage of these scary, crazy mermaids just storming the ship and killing everybody. Sweet. So then that footage gets released or leaked. To the public. And then everyone's [00:23:00] like, that's fake. Yeah, that's fake.

Fake, fake, fake. Look at these, the stupid, you can see the spirit gum. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so then years later, they're sailing out again with another crew to find out what happened to that other ship and prove that the footage is real. So the novella rolling in the deep is the story of the original ship that went missing.

So, 

Shanna: oh, so that's why there's two of them. Yeah. Is there like, the novella would be a 

Jen: prequel. Yeah, the novella's a prequel. So I liked the, that's really annoying. Cause the, they're named really similar names as well. I liked the first one in the Drowning Deep. Mm-hmm. The actual novel. But even then, I didn't love it.

There's way too many characters. It got like way too kind of technical about some stuff, considering we're talking about researching mermaids. Like we went really in [00:24:00] depth about just marine biology in general, which is interesting. But I was really there for killer mermaids. Yeah. So I was like, ah. And any times that the mermaids came up was really good and really cool and they were really creepy.

They're not just like your regular roommates. They are really scary. Like the siren style roommate. Yeah. Yeah. But they have, they're like eel instead of. Fish in there, like the MedU head. They have like, yeah. Scary hair and they have like teeth and, yeah. Sounds great. Um, so anytime that the mermaids were there were cool, the mermaids would come fucking just, just bite arms off and tear faces off and stuff.

And that was good. Although I did during my tiny bit of research find a movie called Killer Mermaids that has sharing it, please, I wish. That has similar looking mermaids to what's in this book. And it's actually, it's kinda scary. The movie looks terrible. 

Shanna: I'm thinking of, you know [00:25:00] the ones in Harry Potter?

No. In the movie? No, not like them. Mm, no, I just don't know them. Oh. It was like, cause it's, it sounds like them 

Jen: and so yeah, the novella, it's just the same. Kind of story told again, like we already know what happened to that ship. Cause we saw the footage in the first book, so then we're just with them on the boat as they're going out to see.

And that was kind of boring. 

Shanna: So this book is more for people who were obsessed with the other book? 

Jen: Yeah, probably. Yeah. Um, cuz I didn't get anything else new out of it. Mm-hmm. Again, the mermaid parts were really cool. Um, one thing that they do, How they lure in their prey, they mimic them. So if, if they're looking for, you know, Whales, they're like, woo.

Shanna: Yes. Then the whales swim. 

Jen: Ah. [00:26:00] 

Shanna: I feel like you shoulda have gone for smaller pre,

Jen: I dunno what plank didn't say. 

Shanna: Yeah, it's probably really, really quiet. 

Jen: But 

Shanna: also plankton is. Too far the other way.

So wait a second. 

Jen: Well, you do some kind of fish sound.

It's not as funny,

but what I'm actually trying to say is, When they are mimicking humans, which seems like what they 

Shanna: would mostly do, 

Jen: there aren't a lot of humans out there. 

Shanna: Well, could they just catch the fish? Do they have to lure it in with their fish sound? I don't know. This is how, how they 

Jen: scary. This is how they've evolved, but okay.

One. [00:27:00] Woman went missing in the water, and then other people were looking for her, and I don't remember how exactly it went or what her name was, but say it was like this, like, Laurel, where are you? Laurel? And then the mermaid comes up later on. She's like, Laurel, Where are you, Laurel? And it's like, it is creepy, especially on audio.

I was like, 

Shanna: it's so much scarier than Boo. Yeah.

Wooton, which as we all know, sound like

Jen: that is a scientific. Fact, 

Shanna: we know because she read this book. Yes. Where they had so many scientific aspects. For 

Jen: sure. Yeah. This book was, it was, it was fine. It was a novella. It was short, it was quick, but packed a punch. I didn't, oh, no. Wait. That's right. You didn't like it. I didn't really like, I [00:28:00] didn't, I didn't.

Wasn't something I needed to read, but I was curious about it. Now it's done. You want another book that is like this? But more mermaidy. So if anyone's read a good scary Mermaid book that actually has more mermaids in it and they're scary mermaids, yeah, let me know. We watched 

Shanna: the movie Mermaids. Yes, we did.

I'd never seen it before. Uh, but Jen was like, I love this movie so much, I'm gonna watch the heck out of it. And I was like, oh, what's this movie? She's like, it's got Cher in it. And I was like, oh hell yes. Mm-hmm. And it's got Christina Ricci in it and I was like, oh yes. And it also had a I, not a rider, and I said, sign me up baby.

Jen: And I also said, it has that guy that looks like Danny DeVito, but isn't Danny DeVito? You know? And Bill Bob Hoskins. No, I was so close. Close. Um, oh, that movie is so good. It was so good. I have [00:29:00] great taste in movies. Mm-hmm. Just gonna say, so 

Shanna: one thing didn't age particularly well, and by one I mean like seven, but one was less forgivable than the others.

Jen: Yeah. Yeah. It was from, I think 1990. So yeah, it was a little bit rough at times, but God, yeah, you can't get much better than mermaids if you haven't watched it immediately. Watch it. Yeah. Highly recommend. All right, so sometimes Shannon comes into recording. Mm-hmm. And she has no idea what the show's about.

Sometimes because I didn't tell her, and we don't always have things that the show's about. But today I accidentally have a whole thing that the show's about. Perfect. Hit me. So this is the Cheryl Strait episode. Oh, 

Shanna: I still haven't read her. That's another one of those books I kept on my shelf for like three years.

And I was like, man, I'm not reading this book. No, you have to keep it on your shelf until I'm ready. Yes. 

Jen: And I have, I'll be ready one day, not two day, [00:30:00] probably not two days from now either. No, but maybe Cause I'm about to talk it up. Oh, sweet. Yeah, so this was accidental. I didn't, uh, plan on having a whole Cheryl straight episode, but, um, okay, so this is what happened.

I was watching TV and then I saw a show called Tiny Beautiful Things advertised on Disney. And I was like, my eyes just like, boop. I was like, ah. Oh my God, I was so excited. So tiny beautiful things is one of Cheryl Strayed's books. So in 2010 she got a job writing for an advice column for the Rumpus, which is an online magazine, I think, and they needed someone to be sugar.

The name of the advice column was called Dear Sugar. So they needed someone to be sugar. So she took the job well, it wasn't a job. Was unpaid and this book is a [00:31:00] collection of some of the letters that that she got and responded to over the years. And the book is so good, I immediately reread it. So I've reread it.

Last week and every single, well, not every single one, there's some letters that I don't care about as much, but especially the first half of the book, I'm just like sobbing tears, like, ugh. There's just something about her exact brand of writing that just like stabs me in the chest and then rips my eyeballs out and then just replaces them with straight tears.

It's terrible, but also so good. Cause I love that 

Shanna: sounds awful. 

Jen: Yeah. I mean, there are some letters that I think one day might be good for 

Shanna: you. I think that probably I should cry more. Yeah, 

Jen: maybe you should just read 

Shanna: it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when my therapists were like, have you thought about crying? I have thought about it.

Jen: Um, it is really good on audio. [00:32:00] She reads it and her voice is really nice and soothing. Yeah, it's one of my most all-time favorite books. A few or I think Last Book Club. One of the questions was, is there a book that you return to over and over again? At the time I was like, Nope, don't think so. And then I'm like, what the fuck?

I've read this book like a hundred times. Like this is, this is that book. Why do I forget that it exists? So, Tiny beautiful things. So, so good. Oh, you love this 

Shanna: book? Well, I read like 10 pages. Pretty sure it's bad.

Jen: I believe that The Hobbit is good. 

Shanna: She said that with a straight face. Guys, I just, 

Jen: no, I'm sure this is good. I actually believe you. No, this is really good. Um. The TV show isn't about Cheryl Stray, it's about a woman named Claire whose life is falling apart in kind of the same similar ways that Cheryl's does over the course of her life.

[00:33:00] Um, but it is fictional except for the letters. So in the show, Claire gets a job as sugar and she has to start answering these letters. And this is a show, 

Shanna: so episodes? 

Jen: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tiny beautiful things was also made into a play. It was adapted for stage. Hmm. Which I think would be really cool. Really wanna see that.

And then also I found that she has two podcasts, one called Dear Sugars, where she, and this guy named Steve Almond, who was the original sugar. So he gave the job to her. 

Shanna: Probably needed a paying job, 

Jen: probably. Oh. I think he was like, I am this dude. Pretending to be this kind of like middle-aged woman. Yeah, that is 

Shanna: nice.

When they stopped doing 

Jen: that. Yeah. And he's like, he was just kinda like making up experiences mm-hmm. To try to connect with these letters, but he didn't have them, so he was like, I need a woman to do this. This is not a job for me. [00:34:00] So yeah, he got Cheryl to do it and then now they have a podcast together where they both answer.

Dear Sugar Letters on the podcast, and it's been really good. I've been listening to it. I really like it. And then she has another podcast called Sugar Calling, which I think she's, I haven't listened to this one, but I think she's just interviewing other writers. And what this has made me realize is that I want to be an advice columnist.

Shanna: I was thinking, You're so lazy. You need at least one more job. I know 

Jen: I do. So if you guys wanna send me your questions, I will give you my advice. That would be 

Shanna: amazing. Please, please, can we have you answer a question? Yes, I'll answer it too. Yes, I bet it'll be the same answer. 

Jen: I'd love to know what you guys are struggling with.

Yeah, I 

Shanna: told you guys 

Jen: everything. Just, yeah, just, I wanna tell you what to do because it's great. Because they don't [00:35:00] have any credentials. They're not therapists, they're not, you don't have to be a therapist or anything important to be an advice columnist. No. You just give whatever you advice, you think, and I, I could give some advice to people and then I'd be like, why are you listening to me if it goes wrong?

I'm just coffee shop owner. I don't know anything about that. 

Shanna: Like I told you, I was a psychic. That's on you, 

Jen: man. This podcast is really like going off the rails. We're supposed to be talking about books and now we're advice columnists and and psychics. Well, they gotta know. Yeah. But no, really, I want to be an advice columnist, so if anybody can tell me how to do that or if you just wanna start sending me your questions, let's just start.

I'll do it. Let's just do it. I love it. I want it. So I don't know a little bit about Cheryl Stray. Uh, her mom died when she was 22 really, really suddenly of cancer. Mm-hmm. It was one of those [00:36:00] gets diagnosed and is dead in a month kind of things. And it messed her up. Mm-hmm. Like really, really badly for a long time.

And she ended up becoming like entangled in heroin and just lots of sex and. 

Shanna: Heroin seems so intense. If someone was like, you're having a bad day, try this heroin. I'd be like, don't, thanks. 

Jen: No. Like I know 

Shanna: I've heard about heroin. Yeah, 

Jen: right. I could not imagine somebody injecting a needle between my toes.

Ooh, and no scary. 

Shanna: I mean, I could, but not full of heroin. Full of what? I don't know. I'm thinking like I'm strapped to a table. It's a horror. It's um, I'm in like a garage. It's pretty 

Jen: bad. I think that's the way, one of the ways they've killed someone in a book that I read. Lots of insulin right in between the toes.

No one's looking there for the injection. Mark. I'm an actual psychic. Mm-hmm. 

Shanna: I'm a broken psychic. 

Jen: Um, [00:37:00] so then, yeah, her marriage breaks down and. Then she decides to put everything back together by walking 1100 miles on the Pacific Crest Trail, which is a trail that goes from, it goes from Mexico to Canada.

Is this one you wanna do? Well, not that one, because that looks terrible. I cannot walk 1100 miles. Have you tried? Uh, I mean, I've walked quite a lot. So she wrote a book about that journey. It's called Wild, which everyone, that's her name. Well, she didn't have a home, she didn't have a job. 

Shanna: I just can't imagine making that bold a choice.

I know. Heroin stop. Heroin 

Jen: walk. Yeah, it's, it's Wow. Intense. Yeah. So she wrote a book called Wild About It. So then I reread Wild because I love her and Jack's [00:38:00] so good. It's one of the other ones that I'll probably read a whole bunch of times, follows her journey along the trail and how scary and horrible it was, but also how great it was.

And she came out on the other end kind of detoxed, put back together a little bit. Yeah. 

Shanna: Are you trying to subtly tell me to go for a walk

Jen: maybe. Jenna, what are you doing for the next three months? And then of course then I had to just watch the movie. So I watched the movie the other night as well. Has Reese Witherspoon, she's really great. This just made me remember that I love hiking. Oh no, I know. 

Shanna: You know what? I could give it a try. The last time I had to go on a hike, it was like within months of having my child, my second child.

And I was forced to go and it was 

Jen: miserable and it was a hard hike. That one's hard. It's a hard hike. I was like, 

Shanna: I [00:39:00] just gave birth. So I'm overweight. I've got two kids with me. I've got a baby strapped to my chest. I am still bleeding and I'm with someone I who would rather not be just, it was miserable and that has completely colored.

My opinion of hiking. Yes. 

Jen: So, yep. That is a problem. It's terrible. But imagine being with me with no kids, just exercising, walking, talking, and a 

Shanna: bunch of dope. Yeah, yeah,

Jen: yeah. See, I take hiking very seriously for health. 

Shanna: I just need you with me so I don't get lost. Yeah.

Jen: So the trail that I want to do, which maybe is what you were referring to, Pacific Northwest, the West Coast Trail. Damn. So this one is along the coast of Vancouver Island. It is 75 [00:40:00] kilometers. And takes, if we're going on the slower side, like seven to eight days. 

Shanna: Oh, that's nice. 

Jen: Shadow's trying to be so supportive.

Shanna: Well, here's the thing. I've heard all about how expensive, those little tiny tents and mm-hmm. Male bags, what do they call them? Male bags. You put your body in sleeping bags. Thank you. Body bags. You know a body bag. It's okay. You know what, it's not your fault. I have hike trauma. 

Jen: I know it's a problem. 

Shanna: It's a problem.

You know, just drag me along. What the hell am I gonna do? Say no. 

Jen: Yes. So now I have become obsessed. All I wanna do is go hiking. I'm planning on the hiking trips. I'm going to be doing hiking things, and I'm sorry I'm not upset about it. I'm gonna tell you, telling you about how expensive my little [00:41:00] tents are.

That's fine. And then you can tell me about your video games. Fantastic. And we can just, 

Shanna: I'll go on a hike. I just get to bring my switch. Yeah. Okay. 

Jen: Yeah, that's all. That's all I got. 

Shanna: Okay. Uh, that's all we have for you today. You can find us@goodbookspodcast.com, and we are in Her Good Books podcast on Facebook, Instagram and TikTok.

Head over there to give us a follow so you never miss anything we're doing. 

Jen: And while you're at it, rate and review this podcast. It helps you get into outer good books.

By supporting the show and also helps other people find us. Thank 

Shanna: you. Thank you. Have a good day. 

Jen: Otherwise, we're gonna see you in 

Shanna: two weeks. Oh yeah. We'll see you in two weeks. Bye. Bye.[00:42:00] 

We did it.