Resilient Leadership in University Policing: Dr. Jennifer Griffin's Journey and Insights

Season 6 - Episode 132

Ever wondered what it takes to lead a university's public safety department while championing progressive policing practices? Meet Dr. Jennifer Griffin, the dynamic Chief of Temple University's Department of Public Safety and Vice President, who shares her remarkable journey in this can't-miss episode of the CopDoc Podcast. From her beginnings influenced by her father's law enforcement career to her pivotal role at Delaware State Police, Jennifer's story is one of resilience, mentorship, and leadership. She talks about her unique experiences, the importance of equal pay, and the invaluable lessons from her male mentors who played a significant role in shaping her career.

Jennifer also reflects on the unique challenges and triumphs women face in policing. With a background rooted in a military family, she brings a fresh perspective on resilience in law enforcement. The discussion takes a deep dive into the necessity for researchers to be embedded within police agencies to better understand stress, burnout, and resiliency among officers. Jennifer emphasizes how both internal and external research can lead to enhanced law enforcement practices, creating a stronger, more resilient police force.

Transitioning to her current role at Temple University, Jennifer discusses merging higher education with progressive policing. She shares her enthusiasm for evidence-based policing and her collaboration with researcher Jerry Ratcliffe, underscoring the importance of data-driven strategies. Listen to her insights on leadership, community engagement, and the structured approach she's implemented to drive significant changes within a short period. From setting expectations to fostering collaboration and building relationships, Jennifer's leadership lessons offer invaluable takeaways for anyone interested in the evolving landscape of policing.

Contact us: copdoc.podcast@gmail.com

Website: www.copdocpodcast.com

If you'd like to arrange for facilitated training, or consulting, or talk about steps you might take to improve your leadership and help in your quest for promotion, contact Steve at stephen.morreale@gmail.com

Transcript

Intro-Outro: 0:02

Welcome to T he CopDoc Podcast. This podcast explores police leadership issues and innovative ideas. The CopDoc shares thoughts and ideas as he talks with leaders in policing communities, academia and other government agencies. And now please join Dr. Steve Morreale and industry thought leaders as they share their insights and experience on T he CopDoc P odcast.

Steve Morreale: 0:32

Well, hello everybody. Steve Morreale, coming to you from Boston this time, Another episode of T he CopDoc P odcast begins and we're heading down to the city of brotherly love, Philadelphia, and we'll be talking to Jennifer Griffin, the chief of the Temple University Department of Public Safety. She's a vice president and also Dr. Jennifer Griffin. Hello, Jennifer.

Jennifer Griffin: 0:52

Hi, good morning. Thank you for having me today.

Steve Morreale: 0:54

So glad to have you. You have a storied history. You came from the Delaware State Police and were a commander there, and what the hell drew you into policing? As you chuckle as I laugh.

Jennifer Griffin: 1:08

No, I was really fortunate. My father was a police officer, so I grew up watching him get dressed and ready for work. He worked midnights for like 17 years and as a little girl I thought it was the most amazing job. It was like watching a superhero get ready for work every day and I just remember his stories. He would come home and he worked at State College Borough, which is the town around Penn State, so he worked in a college town and he used to talk about it and talk about the students and all the great things he used to do and people he was able to help. And then, as I got older, I did some ride alongs with him, which was another great opportunity to kind of see behind the scenes and I just fell in love with it. I fell in love with the work and the purpose.

Steve Morreale: 1:47

So you were raised in Pennsylvania.

Jennifer Griffin: 1:49

Correct, yes, central Pennsylvania. Okay, great.

Steve Morreale: 1:51

Great. So what drew you? Did you go to school and decide I want to be a trooper? Were you a police officer elsewhere? First Tell us that.

Jennifer Griffin: 1:57

So I was very fortunate. I went to a great high school and I played sports throughout high school and policing was the only thing I wanted to do. It seemed like the only option, for you know both my personality. I enjoyed physical fitness. I enjoyed helping people and a lot of contact with different types of people and so I went to college. I went to Millersville and played on a basketball scholarship, had a great experience and then applied for a couple of agencies, got hired by a couple of agencies and turned them down. I wanted to finish playing out my last year and finish school in three and a half years and then took the position with the Delaware State Police.

Steve Morreale: 2:31

Oh, that's great. That's an unusual step to go to a state agency in a different state. What caused that?

Jennifer Griffin: 2:37

Well, I looked at Father was a huge influence in kind of helping me navigate the different types of agencies and the work they did. I did ride-alongs with different agencies and I realized that I wanted to go to an agency a state police agency that had a lot of different specialized units, had a lot of opportunities. There was opportunities for promotion, growth or transfers and things like that and I applied at Pennsylvania State Police, Delaware State Police and Maryland State Police and so I was. You know, I got, I told Maryland and Delaware I was pretty far along in both of their processes and I told them I really don't have preference either way. So whoever really calls me first. And I got a call on a Wednesday from the Delaware State Police, from somebody who turned into a mentor to me, Mark Seifert, and he's at the University of Delaware right now. He ended up as the Delaware State Police Lieutenant Colonel and he offered me a position. I took it and Maryland called on Thursday and I turned it down.

Steve Morreale: 3:32

So it worked out. I think things happen for a reason. Yeah, that is pretty neat. Tell us a little bit about what you found at Delaware, s mall state similar to Rhode Island. How big was the organization, when did you go to the academy and what did you end up doing with them?

Jennifer Griffin: 3:41

So the Delaware State Police is when I was there it was about 760 police troopers statewide organization. The thing that I was really drawn to in Delaware is that they're a full service organization. So, unlike some other state police or highway patrol agencies, in the Delaware State Police we handled everything from. You could handle a crash with injuries, go to a robbery with a gun, handle a school bus crash and then help somebody whose battery died in a parking lot. So you got a lot of different types of work and I enjoy I really thought that that would be something that I would enjoy. You know the diversity of the work every day, not being kind of doing one thing.

Jennifer Griffin: 4:16

I had great experience in the training academy. We have a live-in training academy, as do most of the state police, very physically demanding, and I enjoyed that military aspect of the training. I knew immediately I had a good fit. And then I had a great career. I went to Troop 6, which is one of the busiest troops in the state. I ended up starting and finishing my command at Troop 6 as the commander. So for me it really was a storybook career. I loved it there. I had great connections, great co-workers and colleagues.

Steve Morreale: 4:44

Troop 6, as I was looking, is right there in Wilmington, right. So it's in a busy city with suburbs. I'm sure that attach to it. So let's talk about how you ended up, why you bothered being promoted, why you felt the need to keep going for your education. What drew you to promotion?

Jennifer Griffin: 5:02

I think for me it was. I had, you know, as all police officers, you probably have a mix of supervisors that inspire you and that you show up for work every day because they're your leader and they would do anything for you and you would do anything for them. And then I had kind of the other end of the spectrum where I had supervisors who you didn't feel cared for them and I thought I want to be part of leadership that mentors people and brings people along and makes a difference, and so for me it was really taking that. You know, I also feel you shouldn't complain about something if you don't want to be a part of the solution. So for me I knew that getting promoted, mentoring other people and continuing my own personal growth was important.

Jennifer Griffin: 5:40

The PhD kind of just happened a little bit. I was three years into my career, starting to try to figure out what I wanted to do with the rest of my life, maybe a little bit closer to two, and I went back and got my master's and thoroughly enjoyed that. I love the classes. I really dug. Oh, this is such a struggle, the, you know, the undergrad life, and I remember that. But then when I got to my master's. I really hit the ground. I just really enjoyed immersing myself in learning and trying out different theories, especially within policing and human development. And then I just continued at the University of Delaware to work on my doctorate.

Steve Morreale: 6:19

Why? What's the benefit that you find having finished that doctorate? It's an awful lot of work, especially while you're working. What did you see the benefit?

Jennifer Griffin: 6:28

I think it was both for me, a little bit of intrinsic and extrinsic as well. Internally, I was searching for more. I was searching for better ways to do things, more understanding, and I thought that continuing on with my education, especially at University of Delaware it's an R1 institution especially embedded in the area that I was living and working, and it just made sense there seemed like there was no other option, honestly for me is I had to continue on. And then, extrinsically, I thought about okay, if I continue on, there are very few people within policing that have a PhD, especially from an R1. And this might open up opportunities. I always loved instructing and training too, and so I thought you know what, once I get this, I could take my skills and start teaching at the collegiate level, you know, as an adjunct. So you know, kind of was part of my plan and I was always looking five, 10, 15 years down the road. I wanted to have multiple, like option B, c and D, and so this played into when I grew up.

Jennifer Griffin: 7:28

This could be another option for a career that I would want to do.

Steve Morreale: 7:29

So we're talking to Jennifer Griffin. She is the chief of Temple University Department of Public Safety in Philadelphia. She is a PhD, as you just heard, and one of the things you just said, Jennifer, strikes me and that is what drives us what's the benefit of earning a doctorate?

Jennifer Griffin: 7:58

And how does your thinking begin to morph and grow?

Jennifer Griffin: 8:00

Tell me about that.

Jennifer Griffin: 8:01

And then it really changed me, because the world just got so much bigger for me.

Jennifer Griffin: 8:05

I grew up in a very small rural town in Pennsylvania and I didn't have the wide, open perspective, and then I became a state trooper and I had a great experience, but I just knew there was more out there and so, by getting my education, I started to get involved with the IACP and reading what PERF was putting out and just looking at these other peer-reviewed journals on policing by people who had never policed which is always a unique thing, right Writing about theory but have never worked in the field or had to deal with somebody and deescalate a situation at three in the morning when people have had 20 years of domestics and you're called and you have like 15 to 30 minutes to solve their life problems with these skills you have in your toolbox, and so I think it just really gave me a lot of confidence too. And as a woman in policing, there's still a lot of the 30 by 30, we're trying to get 30% of our women in law enforcement by 2030.

Steve Morreale: 8:56

What a big mistake, jennifer. What a big mistake. I'm teasing, I'm teasing. I'm fully supportive of that. I was about to say the 30 by 30. So certainly you are actively involved in that Fair.

Jennifer Griffin: 9:06

Well, we haven't made the commitment for our department yet, but we are definitely engaged in the conversations and I just had a conversation with a young lady yesterday. She's actually a police officer in Pennsylvania and we were talking about that and how important it is, as a female leader, to represent, to show that this is a position that we can obtain. It's not easy. I will share that this has not been an easy path and it is surely not for people who don't have a strong spine and thick skin.

Steve Morreale: 9:33

Well, that's interesting, let's focus on that. I have to imagine what year did you start in policing?

Jennifer Griffin: 9:38

99.

Steve Morreale: 9:38

Okay, so I will relate to you that in 1978, I came out of the army and there was a move to allow police officers to be women, who were no longer matrons. And I remember, actually, when I was in MP school in 75, it was the first year that we were allowing the military not Steve Morreale, but the military was allowing women to be military police officers. And there were five and not all of them made it. And so I watched I'm the father of three daughters, but I watched, when I came back, my hometown hire 20 women because there was money from the feds and that will make things happen. What I watched with disdain and I was horrified that I was driving by the police station and in front of the police station were men and women, police officers and wives and family members holding signs saying no women in my husband's cruiser.

Steve Morreale: 10:33

So if you can imagine, I know you and what I want to say is that we're far down the road with allowing women in policing, but it doesn't mean you haven't had struggles along the way, and so I'd love you to chat about that. In other words, what did those struggles do for you to help you get to where you are today?

Jennifer Griffin: 10:51

Sure. Well, first, thank you for your service. I'm fortunate that I grew up in a military family numerous uncles, grandparents, my father so a huge amount of respect for people who dedicate their lives to service For me. I think that it really solidified my resolve in doing this job. I definitely my parents and my siblings would say, and my husband would say, like my personality is definitely, if you tell me I can't do something, I will definitely do it and I'm going to outdo everybody else. That's kind of the approach, but I think for me I was.

Jennifer Griffin: 11:21

I knew the struggles. Like I said, my father was a police officer. I spent a lot of time with his colleagues, several of them women, and they all had. There was something about all of them that I was drawn to and that was their just absolute resilience and their unforgivable nature for just standing up for themselves and others. I watched numerous women that my dad worked with and I looked at them and the amount of respect he was also their trainer. He was a field training coach, he was a firearms instructor for the whole department and the level of respect that he had for them and that he demanded of his colleagues.

Jennifer Griffin: 11:55

I saw that with the Delaware State Police. It was definitely extremely challenging, even within policing. If you look at state police, the percentages of women are much smaller, mainly because of the demand, the physical fitness demands, and but I love that there's equal pay for equal work. I had so many mentors In fact, the majority of my mentors with the state police were all men. They saw the potential in me and they spent time and effort, and so I. Although it's been very challenging and there are things that we are continuing to work on, we have come a long way.

Steve Morreale: 12:29

You know what went through my mind? An old adage. It was an old, I think it was a cigarette commercial. You've come a long way, baby. I'm not advocating the smoking side of it, but certainly I think that that has happened.

Steve Morreale: 12:35

I get the opportunity to speak to so many women that have made their mark in policing and I think it's so important, and acceptance is very, very important in my mind, and I think you bring a different perspective, a different mentality, certainly a different empathy in some cases. But we as men have to accept that we are equals and I need you to back me up. I really don't care. It was no different when I was in the military or even policing or with DEA. It really doesn't matter what color, what affiliation you are, what religion you are. We're all on the same team and I think that's the important thing that you go to push. So we're talking to Jennifer Griffin and she is the chief at Temple and to me.

Steve Morreale: 13:14

You are a pracademic and one of the things you said a little bit ago was that you read things. Leaders are readers, right? If we don't read, I think we're crazy and I'm curious to know what you're reading. But you also said something a few moments ago, and that was that you read things that are written by people who know the book but have never experienced it. I think that is a great differentiation between someone like you and someone like me who've done it. Look, I think I have to readily admit, and you too, we don't know it all. Far from it, far from it. And in a lot of ways, a leader asks questions and is curious and allows others to help frame their own views, not pretending that they're a know-it-all, but let's talk about that when you were with the state police and you were working with an R1 school in your education.

Steve Morreale: 14:00

You are at the same R1. Now how important is it for the right person who is a researcher, to embed themselves or to get involved with policing? It's got to be the right person.

Jennifer Griffin: 14:13

Tell me your experience that way.

Jennifer Griffin: 14:14

It definitely has to be the right person with the right mindset and it has to be the right agency. I'll be honest with you Policing, just in general, is a very Insular. Yeah, that was general is a very insular. Yeah, that was the word I was searching for. But yeah, I mean, there's just not always so accepting of outside. I think we're definitely better than we were a decade ago, but still there's definitely in some places there's still a resistance to having outsiders come in and evaluate, tell people how they should be doing things, and I think one of the things that drew me to my PhD was an internal interest in, you know, in my research, and what I talk about and I'm still I work with the IACP and DOJ as a subject matter expert is on, you know, stress, burnout, resiliency. Are there different demographics in law enforcement that made people more resilient or less capable of handling the stressors? And then how do we deal with that? How do we make police officers more resilient? And so I think for me, continuing to learn, and especially from people who are doing research right, because they're looking at it from a different perspective and sometimes they can really stand back. It's hard when you're immersed in the challenges or the day-to-day to sometimes have that 25,000 foot view and when you bring researchers in.

Jennifer Griffin: 15:24

We had an assessment. When I first got here we were in the midst of an assessment by Commissioner Ramsey, retired from the Philadelphia Police Department, 21CP. I was thrilled at that. I took the job knowing they were under an assessment and some of my colleagues are like, why would you do that? You're going into an organization. I mean, we weren't under a consent decree by any means, but you're under an evaluation and assessment. You've had some challenging events. You know this surely is not the easy retirement job that most people who are looking to retire would take. For me I said this is the perfect situation for me. I'm looking for a challenge, c heck. I got it. I was looking to merge my love of higher education and policing and I was looking for a department and an organization at the university that was progressive. They were interested in evolving and enhancing their public safety and policing come up to 21st century best practices in every area. So for me this was the perfect way to merge research, theory, academia and law enforcement.

Steve Morreale: 16:25

So what do you think about evidence-based policing and the move in that direction?

Jennifer Griffin: 16:30

We're a little bit behind. I think we're a little bit behind in our application of evidence-based research.

Steve Morreale: 16:35

But you're open to it? Oh gosh, yeah, I mean I talked to. I'm Jerry Radcliffe. I was just going to say that.

Jennifer Griffin: 16:43

I met Jerry years ago because the Delaware State Police was a very progressive data driven I mean we were doing strategic policing and looking at hotspot policing and so many different things using data. And I reached out to Jerry when I was in the process and I said, Jerry, we met this many years ago. I have your book, I'm thinking about coming to Temple and he's been here and we spoke for at least an hour and 15 minutes and I remember because he was overseas at the time- he always is.

Jennifer Griffin: 17:10

He's always on the road, I know I tell him all the time he has the best life.

Steve Morreale: 17:14

He does.

Jennifer Griffin: 17:15

He's on sabbatical right now he's coming back, but yes, he, he does?

Steve Morreale: 17:17

He's on sabbatical right now.

Jennifer Griffin: 17:17

He's coming back but, yes, he spent so much time and talked to me about his research and we use his research on foot patrols. He came to a supervisor's meeting for me and talked about his research and not only the impact on the community but the impact on the officers for connecting with the community while they're on foot patrol right, like explaining the why is so important on getting buy-in. So, yeah, so I'm definitely a believer. We have to use more of it. We have to bring people into the organization to evaluate what we're doing. 21CP was amazing for starting that conversation for us, but it just has to continue. Policing is evolving, especially at higher ed.

Steve Morreale: 17:53

So Jennifer Griffin is retired from the Delaware State Police and is now the chief at Temple University the Department of Public Safety. As you look back on where you've been, where you are and where you're going, talk about your leadership lessons, Talk about the people you saw around you. At the very beginning, you told me that you worked for some great supervisors and some marginal supervisors, and if we're open-minded enough, we learn from both what to do and what not to do, what to emulate and what to avoid. What are some of the things as you stepped into the ranks that you maybe made a mistake, but they were valuable lesson. Can you think of a situation or two?

Jennifer Griffin: 18:35

Yeah, I mean, I think and I'll just go back to I think sometimes our greatest strength is also our greatest weakness, and I know for me, like I'm a very and I again I've had really good leaders, mentors and people who have been very honest with me. I'm always very open for feedback, so I'm a coach and people have told me you're very coachable and I said, well, I'm always because I'm not a finished product. I'm constantly learning and growing.

Steve Morreale: 18:59

I can tell from here, looking at you, you're far from finished. I think that's a wonderful mindset. Go ahead.

Jennifer Griffin: 19:06

So I think for me it was looking at where I was, where I want to go. I was just really fortunate to make mistakes in safe environments and I think the biggest thing that I always and I continue to struggle with this is my expectations and the pace that I always and I continue to struggle with this is my expectations, and the pace that I want to move is different than sometimes the people that work around me or for me.

Jennifer Griffin: 19:26

And so it does it Well. It frustrates me and I know it frustrates them, because you know I expect that we will get things done at a certain pace and that will be. You know, I came into an organization and there were so many things that the officers, the dispatchers, our security officers and our staff told me like needed change. There was a reason that they created the position that I came into. It had never existed before a vice president position and it was posted for a civilian. It wasn't posted for a sworn officer, and when I interviewed for it, I the final interview with my boss, ken Kaiser at the university I said I would like to be sworn. Is that going to be an issue? And he was like you know, is that important to you? And I said yes, it's important to me because I want to wear the uniform. I think it sets the tone. I want to stand side by side with the officers, our police officers, when we're dealing with any issue. And he said fine.

Jennifer Griffin: 20:15

But I think the thing that I constantly learn and have to relearn is setting expectations, making sure that I'm communicating more than I think is necessary. I have to remind myself too, like you've had, the value of a master's and a PhD and a 25 year career in a very high level police organization, and you're coming into a university environment in a city that has had a different experience, and so for me it's really, you know, I'm reading. Any one time I read like five or six books. I've got audio books and listen to podcasts. I'm constantly trying to learn how to lead the people where they are that I'm so fortunate to be charged to take care of.

Steve Morreale: 20:54

Tell me, about the transition. I came from 35 years in law enforcement and walked into an academic department and shortly thereafter I ended up leading that department and I had to modify both my expectations and even my behavior, my approach. Many people would say to me and they know this is not about me some would say take the cop hat off, steve. Most would say I can't believe that you're the most reasonable one at the table. So you had both sides, because I was trying not to be stern by any means, trying to be involving others and getting other people engaged and asking for their input, and I want to kind of talk about that. How did you transition? How have you found the difference between the culture at a university even though you are in a police?

Steve Morreale: 21:39

role as opposed to a public safety organization, meaning a state police organization.

Jennifer Griffin: 21:45

I tell my friends I said it's like being dropped on the moon.

Jennifer Griffin: 21:49

Policing is very similar right, we handle calls for service, we help people, we were problem solvers. But working in this environment is different in that the universities are just more collaborative, and somebody recently told me I said I just can't put my finger on what it is at the university, within the state police, I was very fortunate I had two different operation commands that I led. I ran our internal affairs. I was the commander, the director of training, which oversaw the firearms unit, all of training and the canine unit, and I was fortunate that I got to do what I needed to do every day. I made decisions, made it happen and moved on, and I get to do that still. But at the university there's a lot more discussion about things.

Steve Morreale: 22:31

Oh my goodness, does it slow down, don't you? Walk into meetings sometimes where commiserating here about what goes on on campus Not that it's bad, but let's think about it, let's get some more feedback. I'm not sure that we have to come up with an answer right now and we're coming from an organization. We've got to deal with this tomorrow or next week. The sense of urgency on campus is completely different. Fair statement yes.

Jennifer Griffin: 22:52

Oh my God. I mean, I talked to somebody recently and they phrased it perfectly. They said at the universities we like to admire the problem.

Steve Morreale: 23:01

I love it.

Jennifer Griffin: 23:02

Talk about it, we like to discuss it, we like to get and I said, you know, in some aspects I really like it. There's a time and a place for that, but then there's also like a lot of opportunities. The difference between policing is a lot of the things we deal with. We take the information we have, we have to make decisions and we have, we have to make decisions and we have to move forward right, because the next crisis is just around the corner and if you don't make decisions on things, you know things back up and you don't get things accomplished.

Jennifer Griffin: 23:25

So for me, I'm reading a lot of things right now about being laser focused, how to continue to prioritize the strategies and the different initiatives that we want to do while managing the day-to-day.

Jennifer Griffin: 23:35

And part of that, when I came in, was looking and working with 21CP and doing my own assessment. My first 90 days I said I'm going to do a listen and learn and I went out and foot patrol. I went in the cars, I sat down with supervisors and officers, dispatchers and security, and then I met with university leaders to really hear like, where are we at, what are the challenges, what are the complaints, and then where do we need to go and then build it and restructure the whole department. And then we're really, at this point just short of two years, hitting the ground running with what I call the five pillars of the way I organize everything that we're doing, and it's personnel, equipment, technology, training and professional development strategy, and then communication and collaboration, and we've been able to make over a hundred different changes in those five pillars within the first year and a half, not by yourself, correct?

Steve Morreale: 24:23

Not by yourself. Oh gosh, no, no, no.

Jennifer Griffin: 24:25

This is not. There was a great group of people. I mean, the reason I took this job is because I came up here and did my own surveillance and before I applied and I met officers and I walked into buildings and I met people, talked to students and I saw such great potential. I'm like this place. First of all, it's a beautiful campus. Our students were overwhelmingly helpful. I mean, I've been on a lot, a lot of college campuses and when I met kids from Temple, I mean how do you get here, how do you ride the train, how do you do that? I mean the kids were so overwhelmingly helpful and approachable. Yeah, isn't that nice.

Steve Morreale: 24:56

So we're talking to Jennifer Griffin she is Dr Jennifer Griffin down at Temple University, and a few things that come to mind are about the job of a leader and you've talked a little bit about your leadership approach, and I guess, before I start, that there's one thing I failed to do, and that was to ask you to identify and help the listener understand just how big the campus is and how big the organization is.

Jennifer Griffin: 25:21

Sure. So Temple University sits in North Philadelphia, in the city, and we have about a one mile square main campus and we have approximately 30,000 students, combination of undergraduate and graduate, about nine to 10,000 faculty staff. We also have multiple campuses throughout the city our health sciences campus, where Temple University Hospital is, and then we have the Ambler campus, H arrisburg Center, city. We have international campuses, but for the most part we leverage our resources for three of the campuses to have students at, and so our organization varies. I mean, one of the biggest challenges in law enforcement right now is retention recruitment, especially for law enforcement officers, really for any care workers right now teachers, nurses, police officers.

Steve Morreale: 26:06

So and you've got the medical center that you're responsible to for two yes, ok.

Jennifer Griffin: 26:09

Health sciences yes.

Steve Morreale: 26:10

I see. So let's talk about this idea of leadership. As I intimated a little bit ago, seems to me that a leader has to deal with. They have to manage and lead. At the same time, they have to develop others. One of the things that strikes me is the responsibility to keep your head on a swivel. I liken it to either being a radar you better turn back because you're going to miss it right A radar screen or a sprinkler, and that, as a leader, you're going to be distracted. But where do you find the wherewithal after that crisis is over to get back on track? Talk about that. I'm sure you've found yourself in many, many situations where you become distracted. Yet you know what I like that what you said is the leader having a forward thinking or forward moving mindset. So just talk a little bit about that from the Jennifer perspective.

Jennifer Griffin: 26:57

The most important thing is the people right. It's the people that you have around you and their ability to bring information to you, to distill it down and then to empower people to move forward on initiatives that we want to work on. So I think for me, coming into the organization, part of the reorganization is creating different units. We had people doing five different jobs. I was shocked at the number of jobs my executive assistant was doing. That really were not executive assistant responsibilities, and so it was really creating people and then developing them. So I think, for me, being laser focused, definitely different than it was two years ago when I came with the structure that we had. And now we've built up the foundation and we're supporting the units that were here and that are existing.

Jennifer Griffin: 27:39

But it's really something that I spend every morning and evening doing is looking at what's my calendar look like tomorrow. What are the three things I want to accomplish, starting the morning before I leave my house, looking at the calendar again. What are the three things I need to accomplish today? What are the meetings I have? You know, what are the agendas? Have I already set meeting agendas? How are we moving through this?

Jennifer Griffin: 27:59

Setting deadlines for people I give a responsibility or I give a task and then I also give we're going to meet in a week and this is the expectation that it'll be done, and if you need anything you come back to me and I'll help you. So it's also providing support, like what information do you need, what support do you need? And sometimes it's me making a phone call to another unit here at the university and say, hey, we need support with this, or me pushing a project along a little bit. So for me it's really something as a leader you have to spend time at or you get nothing accomplished, because everybody is buying for your time and everybody is buying for your attention. And if you don't have strategy, if you don't have a specific, intentional way you are going to attack problems, you get bogged down in the day-to-day.

Steve Morreale: 28:40

I would say that that's more of a manager than a leader, and so that becomes important as reflection, important in your life. It sounds like that's exactly what you're doing morning and evening.

Jennifer Griffin: 28:48

Yes, and that's I would say that's part of my resiliency practice as well is, you know, not every day goes well. I think that saying is sometimes you're the fly, sometimes you're the windshield. A lot of days I go home and I'm like I'm not sure which one I was, but it's what did we accomplish today? What can I be grateful for? And before I go to bed, I always list what are the three things that I'm grateful for today and when I wake up in the morning, what are the three things I'm looking forward to. And I think that sets the tone for your mentality and your resilience and getting through challenges. Trying to instill that in the people that I work with.

Jennifer Griffin: 29:17

It's easy to get bogged down in the negative. Our brains are drawn towards surviving and negative and so it's really trying to create an environment where people yeah, there's a lot of challenges I mean, that's the nature of policing Nobody calls and says hey, I'm having an awesome day, I don't need your help. People call when they are in crisis, when they can't solve their own life issues, when the worst thing in their lives have happened to them and we need to be at our best and help them. So I think that you know. For me, you know, leading is also making sure that I'm taking care of my own mental health and I'm making sure that the people around me are doing that as well, cause you can't pour from an empty vessel, and policing has been really challenged the last couple of years.

Steve Morreale: 29:54

Oh, that's an understatement. I read that you had some hand in developing a wellness app. I guess it was with Delaware State Police. Did I read that correctly?

Jennifer Griffin: 30:04

So I was at the time. It was Colonel Nathaniel McQueen. He's now the superintendent for Homeland Security and he I went to him and I said I think we need a wellness unit and this is what I would like to do, and I came up with a proposal and he was okay, do it? So fortunate that I had somebody who saw the potential and created SOPs and we brought a team together and we started looking. We did surveys and then we partnered with a group that had a wellness app and we brought it to the state police.

Jennifer Griffin: 30:30

We developed resiliency trainers. We were doing resiliency trainers for all new police officers. I used to do yoga with the new recruits. We did supervisors training with resiliency, and so I found that very beneficial. The officers are civilians as well found it very beneficial, and so we're currently working on developing a wellness unit here. And what would that look like with training? We have a monthly newsletter that we put out and one of the notes in there is a wellness corner. So it's really about evolving to the department's needs. But we're going to be doing a lot of the same things here, as well as additional things, because the university has more resources than we had back with the Delaware State Police for mental health and wellness and nutritional counseling and financial counseling, things like that.

Steve Morreale: 31:12

Chief Griffin, take me into a meeting with you, not to disparage your predecessor, but what are the changes that you made in setting expectations in your meetings and getting feedback and not expecting silence, not expecting nodding and bland agreement with you? Tell me how you drew people in so that you could utilize their intellect and their curiosity and add value.

Jennifer Griffin: 31:37

I think the first one was just acknowledging I don't know working within a university environment. I need all of you to share with me your two, three, 20, 50 years as a police officer at Temple, and so really be an opening to listening. I mean, we, as soon as I got here and we started monthly supervisors meetings and that was really an opportunity for them to come in here. What are you seeing? What are you hearing? How does it feel out there? How can we help you? What are the things, what are the obstacles that you're facing, what are the challenges? And then talking through those and as well as we send out newsletters, emails, department wide emails to try to increase that communication, we started a lot of different things with student organizations. I have a student safety advisory committee and that's really an opportunity for me to sit down in my command staff, to sit down with students from very diverse backgrounds throughout the university student government and hear their perspectives.

Jennifer Griffin: 32:32

And because of those meetings we made huge changes to our social media, to how we communicate with students, the parents, the faculty, how we engage with our community in what they needed and how they needed to hear from us, and so for me, it's constantly building that time into my calendar. Like I said, everybody wants your time and it's really sometimes a challenge, but building that time into my schedule to really listen to people and hear the challenges. I would say we are not where I would like us to be, and I think it's just. I had a friend who's a chief and he said it took him six years to get the structure set up and to build those relationships. And so for me I just remind myself we're not where we wanna be and we have to do it together. We're in this together and we need to move together.

Steve Morreale: 33:17

You're bringing so many things to mind. I'm thinking about community policing and how does that work for you. How do you bring that to the organization? How do you bring this to the campus? How did that outreach help you avoid something like a Columbia or an NYU episode? Curious about that. And also, how does culture play into this?

Jennifer Griffin: 33:37

What we saw after COVID really shut down.

Jennifer Griffin: 33:39

Businesses shut down, universities shut down.

Jennifer Griffin: 33:42

There was a lot less interaction with people in general and then, as COVID kind of waned off and people got back to this new normal, the engagement started, but people were still hesitant.

Jennifer Griffin: 33:52

And I think that that's one of the things with police officers is, the more you I always felt, the more I engaged with the community, the more rewarding the job became, because you can really get bogged down with the challenges that people are facing and the emotional labor that you take on when every complaint you go to somebody is in crisis, and also creating opportunities for the community to see a police officer, not when they call 9-1-1, you know that they're actually people we enjoy engaging with you.

Jennifer Griffin: 34:17

So I think it's really engaging with the community, making sure that we're working with them. We just recently worked with one of the high schools and that's getting all of our organization, not just police officers but our dispatchers and our security officers engaged in the community to have that relationship. But we had a local high school within the patrol zone that we rebuilt their greenhouse with them and we had the student athletes from the rowing team come and do that as well and as a result of that and that and other connections, as well as the students from the community, we have 40 young adults who just are graduating tomorrow from the high school are coming to Temple.

Jennifer Griffin: 34:53

University it was a draw, and so the relationships that are so, the relationships that are engagement, unit and we are forging with public safety in these schools or the community. These are long-term relationships. I mean, our students may be here. I jokingly tell them, you might be here four, five, maybe six years if your parents will continue to pay for it. But we're the consistent, the community, the people. There are people in this community who've lived in that same brownstone or that same row house for 40, 50, 60 years and so we want to leave it better than it was when we got here, and so I think that's the thing that I try to remind. We move forward with community policing and just like our foot patrols you know mandatory foot patrols for all the police officers in cars, 90 minutes of their 12 hour shifts. You got to get out of the car.

Jennifer Griffin: 35:37

You got to walk and do some yeah, you got to do some business place checks. I have one scheduled later on today with one of the officers. We're going to get out and do some foot patrol. But making those connections is really good for the community but it's really good for our officers too.

Steve Morreale: 35:52

Yeah, it's mutually beneficial, as you say, because you get to see people not at their worst time, but you're able to show the humanity of policing, which I think is important. We're, but you're able to show the humanity of policing, which I think is important. We are all human beings and there's nothing really special about us except for the training and the care. I think that very much helps. When you I use the term press the flesh, that minimizes it. It's about knowing the people and building relationships for the long term and making yourself approachable, and I think that's to benefit. We need more friends. And it strikes me too, as you're talking here, you are a police organization on a campus and come May, the campus dwindles right. Everybody goes home, graduation is done and you're there during that period of time where, yeah, there's still people who come on for summer programs or for summer school, but you're the constant faculty leave. Administration stays but the faculty leave, and I think that's important. We're talking again to Jennifer Griffin and she is the chief at Temple University. She is a PhD herself.

Steve Morreale: 36:51

One of the things I'd like to ask you, jennifer, is what are the benefits of not being myopic by reaching out, by belonging to chiefs associations? By reaching out, by belonging to chiefs associations, both campus and either local or state, what are the benefits of IACP? How have you grown? How have you come to go and listen? And I hope to see you in Boston because IACP. I'm a member since 88 and IACP comes to Boston. What are the benefits of those professional associations?

Jennifer Griffin: 37:20

Well, it's incredible. I mean it's incredible for a new police officer just being involved with those organizations to learn how other agencies we're all experiencing many similar things nationwide right Universities in Boston and New York, philly, dealing with a lot of the same issues that they are on the West Coast and how we network in those organizations the IACP. I mean I've been really blessed that I've been a part of their belong to different groups within IACP and I'm a subject matter expert. I do stuff with their Crytek team and the Department of Justice and that gives me more insight into what is going on at other agencies. And then when we have something going on here, I have a network of people to reach out to and say, hey, we're dealing with this. I see you've already dealt with it. Can you share with me your policy? What were the challenges? What were the obstacles? We can shorten the amount of time that we have to spin our wheels when you have those networks and those connections, and especially for IACP, I mean the networks are amazing.

Jennifer Griffin: 38:19

I went through the FBI National Academy.

Steve Morreale: 38:21

What was your class number?

Jennifer Griffin: 38:22

268. Okay, just so that network alone. You know I'm on the training committee for the FBI National Academy. I've gone to Quantico and had the opportunity to present and teach down there and just the amount of networking and the information sharing people in those groups nobody is hoarding what they're doing or hiding it. I mean, I'm on a lot of email chains and we're sharing policies and we're especially this last year, right We've the last semester has really presented some unique challenges for universities and having the opportunity to share and leverage that information is invaluable.

Steve Morreale: 38:55

Yeah, especially on campus. And the big issue is right to demonstrate and freedom of expression, and our university just put out a new policy that I just read the other day. How about Temple and its other campuses?

Jennifer Griffin: 39:06

I think I was fortunate. I came into the university and at the time it was Commissioner Outlaw. I had been acquainted with her outside before I came to this job. And now you have Commissioner Kevin Bethel, who I'm good friends with. I met him early on when I was here. He was a great resource I mean, he's a good friend, commissioner Ramsey, so I immediately was able to forge relationships and their upper command.

Jennifer Griffin: 39:30

I would say that we probably speak about something not always like issues or crisis, but just touching base on different things at least once a week. So great relationship with Philly and people always ask me that. I think they're always thinking that you know, like we're a university and they treat us badly, you know, or something, and couldn't be more opposite we are. So I just saw the commissioner and his command staff at an event last week and it's always mutual respect and support. How can we work together? What resources can we leverage? I mean we are all working to build up the number of police officers within the city, within all the organizations, so we have to work smarter and I think that's created a lot of opportunities to collaborate.

Steve Morreale: 40:05

I'm going to go back to something before we begin to wind down your time on the Delaware State Police. There's always this aura about the state police and statewide jurisdiction and sometimes certain people looking down on local police as opposed to state police, and it was always my belief is badge is a badge is a badge. We've got to get along. How did you drive that expectation of mutual trust and mutual respect when you were in position of authority, of leadership with Delaware State Police?

Jennifer Griffin: 40:37

I think just the way that the Delaware State Police trains it was pretty formative because the Delaware State Police I think just the way that the Delaware State Police trains. It was pretty formative because the Delaware State Police was at the time there was only three police academies in the state, so for the 50 plus agencies the Delaware State Police trained the majority of law enforcement officers in the state at our training academy. So I went through a training academy with 70 people and it was locals.

Jennifer Griffin: 41:00

Troopers. We wore the same recruit uniform, we slept in the same hard beds, we did the same PT, we had the same commandants screaming at you.

Jennifer Griffin: 41:10

I know, I know, I know the same peanut butter and jelly for lunch. I mean we, it was the common struggle and we forged relationships. So I think the universe, you know, like the way that Delaware state police operated, the way we train, the way we co-train with agencies, I mean we were, I think, one of the first in the nation went to alert for active shooter training, requiring all police officers train on the same platform, and the Delaware State Police was one of the lead agencies that trained all police in the state. We share resources, we support our law. I never had the feeling like that.

Jennifer Griffin: 41:40

We were looking down on them. Maybe they would have a different experience, but in some places in the state they were your only backup. You might, especially in Sussex County, you're a trooper down there like your backups. Another trooper might be 20 plus minutes away and that local officer was your lifeline. And so people respected each other and I really valued. And then when I came here I get the same feeling of respect from the Philadelphia Police Department, their officers. I mean I work a lot with some of the events we have. I've seen no difference.

Steve Morreale: 42:06

Good, I'm glad to hear that, because that has been something that has sort of lingered in certain places. I went to New Hampshire Police Academy and state police trained in the same academy a state academy so I understand that and it certainly changed the whole perspective which I think is very, very important.

Jennifer Griffin: 42:28

I think there's also a responsibility. I think it was ingrained in us as troopers, Like you have a responsibility because we did have more officers and more troopers. We had different, diverse units, we had homicide aviation, we had everything SWAT units. It was a responsibility that we would support our local partners. I mean we call them sister agencies for a reason. You know I had the president's detail and the vice president. President Biden lived in my troop area. I oversaw his motorcade and his residence for several different years and you can't do that without good relationships and partnerships, and that's the same in Philadelphia. You cannot keep communities safe without relationships and partnerships.

Steve Morreale: 42:58

I mean, I believe that there's not enough of us in the first place, and so for us to have infighting makes no sense whatsoever. So we're winding down with Jennifer Griffin and tell me what's on your list of things that you would like to accomplish in the next little bit that we have with a couple of key positions.

Jennifer Griffin: 43:19

Accreditation is one of them. You know, I think it's really important that agencies are accredited. It's important for our organization, for the university. It sets the standard.

Steve Morreale: 43:28

Yes, what accreditation will you seek? CALEA and P LEAC, oh good, and IACLEA which is the oh, wow, that's a lot. Where are you going to

Jennifer Griffin: 43:39

In the lobby. We're going to put all of those in the lobby so that people can see them.

Jennifer Griffin: 43:43

But no, I mean once you achieve Kaliya, the other ones are a walkover, so it should be much easier. But I think continuing to work to change culture here and develop relationships I think is really important, and those are the things that I focus on. How do we continue to change culture and the belief system? How do we create an environment where people enjoy coming to work in a country right now that people are working from home and hybrid and they have a lot of different opportunities? And how do we get people to come into public service? How can we encourage young people to do a life of service and see that be purpose driven?

Steve Morreale: 44:18

How does Dr Griffin select things that she wishes to read up on? Where do you find some of that material? What books, what feeder do you use to get? Is it IACP? Where are you finding some of your research?

Jennifer Griffin: 44:33

articles. So a couple of different places. I would say, as somebody who just enjoys books in general and I, one of the draws of Temple was we have this amazing library and I have great access to whatever I would want and I one of the draws of Temple was we have this amazing library and I have great access to whatever I would want. But I think for me it's what issue am I dealing with right now, professionally or personally? And then I just like any good scholar, I research who are the experts in that field. I read what they write, books, articles. I also still do a lot of peer review for different police journals, police quarterly international journal. So I still do a lot of reading to build up my own knowledge. And then you know, I use the common things like everybody else. I go on Amazon, I use Blinkist Headway, tons of different apps, audio books and I listen to books and I usually to cram more in, I'll listen to them on like 1.5 speed, no, so I can get.

Steve Morreale: 45:24

Is that why you speak so quickly? No, I'm kidding, maybe yeah.

Jennifer Griffin: 45:28

And same thing for podcasts. Usually when I have an issue that I'm dealing with or I'm trying to find a better option, you know, I just research it and then I find the people that are experts in that field. I leverage the IACP and PERF and other places.

Steve Morreale: 45:41

National Police Foundation.

Jennifer Griffin: 45:43

National Police Foundation.

Steve Morreale: 45:44

That's good. So does Jennifer Griffin. Have you begun to take advantage of AI?

Jennifer Griffin: 45:52

So we're using a couple, both professionally here at the university. We are. We're currently in the process of adding artificial intelligence, gun detection devices, overlaying over. We have almost 1, almost 1500 cameras here on our campuses, so we're overlaying some gun detection devices, license plate readers. But personally, yeah, I use C hat GPT and kind of look things up. I mean sometimes it's just trying to research and get a different perspective on things. But I think AI is going to continue to. It should be seen as a tool. I remember years ago people were like, oh every, all your jobs, all these jobs in the United States are going to be replaced by a robot whatever.

Steve Morreale: 46:31

No, it still needs human intervention. I they're shocked that I would allow them to use it. But if we don't allow them to use it, they're going to use it anyway. I mean, who are we fooling? But it takes human intervention. What I'll say is don't you just hand me something? Cut and paste look at it and then dig into it and see if it works for us. How about we modify it for Temple University or for Worcester State University? So I'm glad to hear that you're willing to be an early adopter within reason.

Jennifer Griffin: 46:52

Oh yeah, and I, I still I'm an adjunct professor, I still, you know. So I think it's just another tool. We should use it as another tool. It's not going to be the magic bullet, it's not going to be going to answer every question for us, but it can really help and narrow down the information sometimes. And I think for students, as long as they're using it responsibly, they're not plagiarizing. I always give them questions. That has to have a human element. Give me an example in your life where you could have utilized it. So, as much as they want to use it, they definitely are going to have to still use their brain too. I understand.

Steve Morreale: 47:23

And my last question, so as an adjunct, you'll appreciate this. I'm not attacking people, but somebody just wrote something and I said, hmm, this has the sound of AI, yes or no? That's all I wrote yes or no, and if yes, why? And why is this the first I'm hearing of it, and so then I made them go back and write again, but I got their attention, you understand.

Steve Morreale: 47:44

So, if you had the chance, as an evolving leader in other words, constantly evolving to improve. Is there somebody in the past that has passed that you would love to sit down and pick their brain? That would help you become a better leader, help you deal with issues in a better way.

Jennifer Griffin: 48:02

I would say it has to be a leader. I would say there's a couple different people maybe that I would reach out to. I would say that definitely continue to read. And this is somebody who's still alive, but you know the Bill Brattons of the world. I'm fortunate. Chuck Ramsey is not only somebody who did an assessment for us but has become a real friend and mentor to me and answers my phone calls when I call and is still a good supporter. We're sitting on a panel later on this month, so I'm fortunate. I would say to people like I miss my grandparents. They were always very supportive and I think sometimes, as police leaders, we also need support and just having people that can provide moment, you know, a grounding foundation for us, and that I think that's what I've very much benefited from over the years with having great mentors, and so those would be the people I'd want.

Steve Morreale: 48:48

I think that's great, it's interesting. I get the advantage of seeing you on camera and I just saw a little piece when you talked about your grandparents, a little piece of emotion, which is just amazing because you understand, we're all human, and it just brought up such a nice memory, I'm sure, for you, and I appreciate you sharing it. Well, we've been talking to Jennifer Griffin. She is Dr. Jennifer Griffin, the Chief of Police and the Vice President at Temple University, the Department of Public Safety, and I have to tell you it's been a pleasure to chat with you as a parting opportunity for you to have the last word. What would you say to young people about policing who have seen the things on television that paint us in such a negative way? What would you say to convince them that this might be something to consider?

Jennifer Griffin: 49:30

I would say I've done this job for 25 years and it is constantly evolving. It's one of the things I love about the job. No day is the same as the last. I'm proud to be a police officer here at Temple University. I'm proud of our police officers, our dispatchers, our security officers, and if you're looking for a job where you are purpose driven, where you are interested in making changes and you're interested in being a part of a community and working at both the micro and the macro level, like you want to really get into it.

Jennifer Griffin: 49:58

University policing is a great opportunity. I've done and I tell people I love my state police time. I absolutely enjoyed driving up and down the interstate and going to robberies and handling all kinds of stuff. At the university you get to do everything from helping students who are in mental health crisis to dealing with crime, to doing traffic, to doing foot patrol. Business place just graduate. We're in the midst of high school graduations now and had a week of commencement and graduation ceremonies and that's something I didn't get to do in my previous job.

Steve Morreale: 50:27

I mean, I think it's really unique. Those are fun times, aren't they? They're hopeful times, aren't they?

Jennifer Griffin: 50:30

Yeah, it reminds you why we are here. It really reminds you, like, the reason we are here to serve this community, to serve the university and to serve each other.

Steve Morreale: 50:39

Well, thank you for your time, for your energy and for your sharing. You have some innovative ideas and I'm very, very appreciative that you shared them with our listeners. Thank you, Jennifer.

Jennifer Griffin: 50:49

Thank you for having me and I'll see you in Boston. See you in Boston.

Steve Morreale: 50:52

Well, that's it. Another episode of T he CopDoc Podcast is in the books. Thanks for listening. We'll be with you with more episodes. If you have somebody in mind that we should be talking to, please don't be afraid to reach out. All the best to you. Stay safe.

Intro-Outro: 51:08

Thanks for listening to T he Cop Doc Podcast with Dr. Steve Morreale. Steve is a retired law enforcement practitioner and manager, turned academic and scholar from Worcester State University. Please tune into T he Cop Doc Podcast for regular episodes of interviews with thought leaders in policing.