Risk Management Trading Strategy with Robb Reinhold

In this conversation, Robb Reinhold discusses the importance of risk management in trading and shares his personal journey in the trading world. He emphasizes the need for self-awareness and training the brain to make rational decisions in high-pressure situations. Robb also introduces his YouTube channel, the Flat Earth Trading Society, where he explores the significance of exit strategies in trading. Additionally, he provides information about Maverick Trading and Maverick Currencies, prop trading firms that back traders with capital.

Takeaways

Risk management is crucial in trading and involves making correct decisions based on a trading plan, especially when faced with adversity.
Training the brain and developing self-awareness are essential for successful risk management.
It takes time and experience, typically around five to seven years, to master risk management in trading.
Exit strategies are just as important as entry strategies in trading, and the Flat Earth Trading Society YouTube channel explores the significance of exit strategies.
Maverick Trading and Maverick Currencies are prop trading firms that provide traders with capital and support.

youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/@FlatEarthTradingSociety
https://mavericktrading.com/

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background
03:23 The Importance of Risk Management
07:09 The Difficulty of Implementing Risk Management
10:03 Developing Self-Awareness and Training the Brain
13:15 The Time it Takes to Master Risk Management
20:44 The Relationship Between Risk Management and Strategy
25:34 The Flat Earth Trading Society YouTube Channel
32:21 Future Plans for the YouTube Channel
34:03 Maverick Trading and Maverick Currencies
36:14 Conclusion

Grab your copy of the Complete Trading System This book teaches you how to build a trading system from the ground up and how to become profitable in the markets.

Transcript

0:35

Hey Rob, how you doing today? Good Casey, how you doing? I'm doing great, really excited to talk to you. You've got a ton of trading experience and some different viewpoints, different ideas, and I love discussion and talking about different things that maybe you don't hear everywhere else, so I'm really looking forward to talking with you today. So just give me a little quick rundown on how you got started in trading. All right, I'm gonna have to go all the way back to sixth grade. I had one of those perfect sixth grade teachers. He was great. He didn't go to do anything in the textbook. It was all just teaching us about real life. And one week he brought in a guy in a suit and a tie from a bank. He explained how banks work and how, you know, what's happening when your mom was writing a check. And I'm really dating myself here, but. It was so interesting and he gave us all these fake checkbooks. And the teacher explained that we're all going to get these fake accounts. And if we did good things, we got money into the accounts. And if we did bad things, we had to write a checkout to him. And then at the end of the month, he would open up a little store and we could use our money to buy things. A week later, he brought in some newspapers. And we turned to the financial pages. And he taught us how to read the stock tables and what a stock was and everything about it. And he told us, if you want to use your fake money to buy and sell stocks, you could grow your account and make it bigger. So he made out these little tickets on his desk that you'd go over and write down what the stock was, how many shares you bought. That's all I wanted to do for the rest of the whole year. I was doing studying like Sunday, when we would get the newspaper, I'd do study on what stocks I wanted to do. Um, and then of course, you know, I got into junior high girls became a thing and got into other interests. And then when I was 16, I got in a bad car wreck, had a head injury. And, uh, they told me there was no brain damage, but I guess we'll find out in this podcast here. And, um, when I was 18, I got a $20,000 settlement check from the insurance company saying, Hey, we need to settle with you. We want to get you off our records because you have a head injury. So I walked out of a lawyer's office with$20,000 as an 18 year old kid, which that's the definition of risk right there. That's, that's risky. No way. I remember just looking at that check being like, what is going on? I spent a little bit of it, but I invested most of it into stocks. And I went with my mom down to this place called oldie discount brokers. They were the first. brokerage that had under a hundred dollar commissions. Ninety-five dollars was the first commissions I paid. And I invested that and that money grew to about forty-five thousand dollars over the next couple of years. And I had been reading more about investing and online trading was just barely getting going here in 1997. And so I decided, hey, I'm going to do this for a living. So I took that forty-five thousand dollars and I turned it back into twenty thousand dollars pretty quickly. It was quite a feat to do that. And it was right around that time I found out about a place called Maverick Trading. They had an office where you could go in, sit behind a computer, and the people that traded there, they all have lots of experience. So I stepped into Maverick Trading, and I've been with Maverick Trading ever since. Oh, that's pretty cool. So when you went into Maverick trading, was that like a higher situation or did you have to pay them to teach you? No, they were a broker dealer, basically like an E-Trade or Ameritrade, where you opened your account with them and then they gave you a computer to sit behind and they gave you training. It was nice to get the training as well, but you really were paying them the commissions. They sold off their broker dealer operation and we're now a crop firm based in the US. oh that's pretty cool. Your story is a little similar to mine. I started around the same time too and it was a great time for me to get started because I put all my money, I was in the army and I just threw all my money in every week because I didn't have, you know, I had no expenses but I ended up with a nice large chunk because it was right up until 2000 when everything crashed but leading up to that was really nice. But I actually had a really cool teacher too. I'm from Oregon, and I went to high school in Eastern Oregon. There's a lot of cattle ranches out there. They've got this big desert area with sage brushes, not too different from the Utah area, but a lot of cattle ranchers. So they brought in a cattle rancher who traded futures, because he would trade cattle futures because he knew. the cattle industry so well, and he would use it as part of his business to offset the prices of cattle when they were down to try to make money using trading. And so he would come in and discuss his futures trading, which was pretty cool as a kid to come in and see that. That is so cool. We actually at Maverick Trading, we have a trader up in Canada, who's a big cattle rancher. Same thing, he got into trading just for that exact same reason. And we did one of our summits in New York City and this guy showed up with his belt buckles, his boots, his hats, and we lost him in the middle of Times Square. It was actually, we were a little panicked for a little bit. It was pretty funny though. Yeah, so I got a personal story because, you know, this is a podcast. My I'm from Eastern Oregon, and my stepdad is a rancher. He's a cattle rancher. And so my sister went to college at Columbia University in New York City. And so for the graduation, he came to New York. And it was just so funny because we're on the subway, right? And he's on there with his cowboy outfit. the, um, there was a bunch of like wall street guys on the subway and they just had such a fun time with him. Like they were just like, they invite him to go hang out later afterwards. Yeah. It was cool. our guy actually got mugged. He's like, he's like, I got, he didn't get mugged. He's like, I was in this bar and these two girls, they stole my money. He's like, one was like distracting me while she was like dancing. And then the other one took some money out of my pocket. I'm like, well, how much did they get? He's like $40. I'm like, Owen. I'll pay $40 just for that story. That is the best story. You get to go back home and tell everyone this story about how you went to New York. It only cost you 40 bucks. What a great story. Yeah, well that's interesting stuff. So yeah, it was good for me to get started young and you got started young too. So as far as trading goes now, what's some of the most important things that you focus on and that you try to teach people that are involved with your organization? risk management. And we all say risk management, and we all know what it means, but let's talk about what it really means. What it really means is that you are doing everything perfectly correct based on your trading plan. That's really what risk management is. Now look, if you have a trading plan that's not all that good and has too much risk built into it, change that. But risk management is when you are... with your back against the wall, when your trade or trades aren't going the way you wanted it to go, how do you get through those moments without undermining it and screwing it up? That's risk management in a nutshell. And that's everything in trading. I can teach someone how to read a chart in a couple days. I can teach someone how to do the basic stuff in a week or two. It's really hard to get people to not screw it up. I mean, you can teach risk management pretty quick too. It's just the execution side. And so why is risk management so difficult for traders when the concept is easy, right? Is the concept easy? You put on a certain amount of risk and then that's all you have to do, right? Why is it so difficult when it's really that simple? I'm going to give you an answer that probably no one else has given you ever. You use the wrong part of your brain. Now they've done lots of studies. There's been so many great studies over the past two decades about humans and our brains and what happens when we take on risk. So one of my favorite experiments they did was they took a bunch of people and they sat them down to play blackjack. And they were all hooked up to MRI machines scanning their brains. When there was no money on the line, All of the activity was in your prefrontal cortex. That's the area where you use logic, reason, and come to educated decisions. So all the brain activity was upfront. Once money was put on the line, those MRI machines showed that there's very little activity in the prefrontal cortex and was all in the insula, where our fight or flight response is. So you are literally, literally using the wrong part of your brain. when you get to the moments where you have to act fight or flight, you're using the wrong part of your brain and it's not designed to make rational decisions. That's the biggest reason. Okay. Um, so Rob, I don't really know where my thoughts are in my brain. I just know that they're up there somewhere. Like, I don't know which part I'm using. So how do I move my risk management from the back to the front? The front is where I need it to be. Right. Yes, yes. I get it from... I've also heard things, I'm not a brain expert, obviously. I've read some brain books, but there's left brain, right brain, then there's the front and the back. So how do I get it up there? Well, that is the toughest question. And I wish there was a little switch. It's just, hey, can I get it from back here up to here? And we'll be good with it. It's really you have to train your brain. You have to train it. The very first thing you have to do is, first of all, be self-aware that there's even a problem. And this is the start of all behavior change. And I mean, we could even, I always use training. Whenever I talk about trading and trade psychology, I always started off with like I'm at an AA meeting. And they say, hello, my name is Rob Reinhold. I'm an overtrader. I can follow my rules nine out of 10 times, but I can't do it 10 out of 10 times. And you come to the realization that these are the mistakes you're always going to make. And so you have to be self-aware enough to know that you're no longer using the right part of your brain. Once you know that, then you can kind of step back from the emotions that all that brings. Again, that fight or flight response is shooting dopamine and adrenaline through your body at that moment. If you know what's happening, if you even understand what's happening, then you can step back and now start to use the logical part of your brain. But if you aren't self-aware, you just feel normal. This is just what is happening in your life. and the adrenaline that's coursing through your body, you don't understand what's even happening. It really starts with self-awareness. Okay, so self-awareness, understanding what's happening, understanding where your mistake is, and then just kind of focusing on making sure you're doing the right. Is it kind of like building in habits? You know, I read Atomic Habits and I believe that people rise and fall based off the level of how good they are at following their daily habits. And I mean, just to take what you said, habits, and then that is the perfect word for it. When you formed a habit that you now do all the time without fail, you didn't do it one day. You didn't flip a switch. It was a constant struggle to where, again, let's, let's use like working out. Like I really like to work out. And people that don't like to work out, you know, it's a struggle for them. And sometimes they can only work out twice a week when their goal was five. But eventually if you keep going, you get to three, you get to four, you get to five days a week, and then it's no longer a struggle. It's literally the same process when you are trading and you keep screwing up things. You just really, your goal is to try to screw it up less than you did last month. And if you screwed it up less than you did last month, that was a win. And then you keep going and going and going and going until at one point, I always tell people, when you finally get to the point in trading where you have no compulsion, to deviate from your trading rules, that's when you've made it. When you literally have no compulsion whatsoever. Yeah, yeah, that's really good. So how long does it take to build that in? And is that something that it's, you know, you can teach, like you said, you can teach charts, but you can't teach that because that has to be something that you build in. This is what I say. And again, I don't have any empirical data on this, but I tell people five to seven years. Five to seven years. It's typically where I see, yes, some people do it earlier. Yes, some people never get it. But five to seven years seems like that's the part where everyone gets to where they're done being an idiot is basically they've been slapped around so much by the market that they've stopped being an idiot. And they just do what they do and forget the rest. And that is a great challenge for people to not give up. I think a lot of, you know, you hear the numbers about such a high turnover with traders, and I think it's just because they don't give themselves enough time to go through that cycle. So with that being said, risk management, what are some techniques that you use or that you teach to help people build risk management skills? The first thing we like to talk about is automate. And I'm not a huge fan of like automated trading, but automate the things that you don't do well. So just for example, like a trailing stop order, a trailing stop order is a very simple automated order that really takes the exit out of your hands. So if you buy a stock at $50 and you put in a trailing stop of $1. You literally don't have to do anything else. That trade will be managed. If it keeps going up and never pulls back a buck, you're in it for the whole ride. If it ever pulls back a dollar, you get knocked out. So find ways to trade in spite of your weaknesses. How do you stay in winners longer? That's a very typical thing that new traders face is they sell their winners way too easy. How do you stay in winners longer? Because you sell them because you literally can't take the pressure anymore. You see that P&L, and all the stuff in your brain is going crazy. Like, take it. You want to take it. I need that gain. How do you stay in it longer? Do some automation. If you need to, take half off, and then keep the rest of the half with a trailing stop. What happens is you start doing these kind of things. And you start to see, Oh, if I did that half that I held longer, made me way more money than if I sold it earlier. All of a sudden you're building these habits for next time. The battle to stay in that winter isn't going to be as intense because you have had that positive experience. Well, I say that with holding on long time, one of the problems with that is it starts to pull back. Right. So you got a big move, you're making good money, and then you might have a really long term target. And then it starts to pull back. And so then you've got to come up with the decision. Oh, do I pull it here and take the profit I got or do I lose everything? Because it's always horrible when you've got a great big winner to turn into a loser. That's always a challenge. So I agree automating that with a trailing stop can really help the, but sometimes it just gives you the disappointment like, Oh man, I was up this much and now I pulled back at my trailing stop and sometimes it'll hit your trailing stop and keep going. So dealing with those parts. Um, how do you do that? Do you automate like your decision making process as well? I want to say automate my decision making process, but the best way to deal with that is do not trade in what I call singular trading. And when everyone starts out, we're all taught that, OK, you do the research on this trade. You look at the chart. You do your entry point. You do your entry, and then you do your exit. That is singular trading. And then you have a binary result. It was a good or it was a bad trade. It was a winner or a loser. Very binary. And when you're dealing in these binary turns, your brain goes crazy. Back to your brain, it's very intense to think of win-loss, white or black, like good or bad. Your brain doesn't like that. And so it puts a lot of stress on yourself. At Maverick, we have people trade in blocks. Meaning, You don't even look at your trade numbers or results until you get a block of 10. And now all of a sudden, you're not trying to trade and make a profit on one stock or one position. You're making 10 trades and saying, I want to make profit on these 10 trades. That's where I'm going to be judged is on this block, not on this one trade. I'm just trying to have a good win loss and a good profit factor on this block of 10 or block of 20. If you change that, your brain is now totally different on how it's going to look at the outcome of this one trade because it's not individual. It's just part of a group of 20. That's just a little brain trick to where you don't get singularly focused on these trades. when you're looking at your block, what are you looking at as far as how to improve your performance? Because if you have a block of 10 and there was one trade where you made a big mistake, I think that's good that it would even it all out. But do you go through and kind of look at each trade in there individually after you look at the block? Yeah, and so let's talk about the term made a mistake. Made a mistake in our terminology is that you deviated from your trading system because your trading system should be set up and built to where you make a trade, you have a predefined amount of risk, and if it goes bad, you lose that predefined amount of risk. So the only way you would ever lose more than that, is if you deviated from your system. And that is a mistake. So then you need to get into, why did you deviate from your system? And guess what? That's not about a chart. That's not about anything else. It's about psychology. Why did you deviate? And that's where the game of trading is won or lost, is figuring out, why did you deviate? And then figure out, how am I not going to do this in the future? Because you are predisposed. Just by making that first mistake, you have showed yourself that this is who you are, and these are the mistakes you're always going to make. How are you possibly going to fix that in your life of trading? Yeah, psychology and also based off of the brain science that you had talked about earlier, being able to follow your plan and understanding why you failed and self-awareness and all of that, that's really good stuff. So with that being said, risk management's the most important thing because if you don't have that, you're never gonna make money. It really doesn't matter. I mean, you could... You could have a 95% sweet, sweet system, but without risk management, you're never going to make money because the one time you, you know, you're 95% that one time you're going to blow it. No, sadly right. said, how do you focus on the strategy side? Once you really get the money management side down, how do you then focus on strategy? The focus on strategy. So I'm gonna go back to the very first step we have all Maverick traders go through is they take a trading personality test. It's based on Myers-Briggs. And basically you get your trading personality score. And then we go through and we say, hey, this is who you are. And these are the mistakes that you were pretty much guaranteed to make. Again, I have not read a trading book in well over a decade. I read all psychology and behavioral finance. That's all I read now. And who you are is going to determine what you do in this world. A lot of it is already baked into our DNA. And just take for me, I am a very strong extrovert. I rank very high on extroversion. If you give me any extrovert and sit them behind a computer, I will guarantee you that they'll be an overtrader. 100% of the time. What do you think? Do you think you're more of an extrovert or an introvert, Casey? just going through, as you were talking, I was trying to go through my email and remembering what my score was because I've taken it before. Is that the one where you get the code? My code, I think, was ENTJ. I think that was the same test, I don't know. But I know that, yeah. if you if you ranked high on extroversion, I'm going to tell you your first couple of years over trading was an issue. Is that correct? over trading and I just love risk. Like, you know, you talk about the risks part of your brain. I actually like it. Like I like risk, you know, doing crazy stuff is very attractive to me. Not so much now that I'm getting older, but yeah. in the same boat as you, slowing down. And I hate it. I always told myself, I'm not gonna slow down. I'm slowing down. I was in Vegas a couple of years ago and they have this rollercoaster on top of the space needle there. And the, I don't know if you've ever seen it, but the rollercoaster. Yeah. So the roller and I'm not scared. Right. I'm saying it. I'm not scared to the whole podcast audience, but because I'll do all kinds of stuff, but it was, it goes off the edge and it stops. Right. If you've done it. And I was, I was there and I was thinking about it. And I just thought, you know what? It's just not worth it. You know, because I got a family, I got all this stuff going on. When I was young, I would have done it in a heartbeat. And it's not that I was afraid, but just in the chance that one thing, my risk management side kicked in and said, you know what, it's just not worth it. Very true. When you start weighing the consequences of your actions, that's when you're old. That's when you know you're actually old. Before, you didn't even think of the consequences. You just went off that jump. You just did it. When you start thinking of the possible consequences, it's over. Yeah, so as a trader, that's what you have to train yourself is begin to believe in the consequences of your actions. Like, okay, this could be a great trade and yes, you could make a lot of money, but it could set you back 10 years for what you've been working to build. And do you want to give up 10 years for a whim? Very true, very true. That's a great analogy of risk management and getting to risk management and why it's so hard for a new trader to understand this concept. It's like being an 18 year old indestructible kid who's out there doing the dumbest stuff possible because they don't even know. They don't even have any understanding of what could possibly happen. And they also don't have a lot to lose. You know, once you're in your 30s and your 40s and your 50s, and you've gone through a lot of pain to get where you are, you start to look around saying like, eh, I don't wanna lose this. Right. Yeah, no, that's true. And so trading is the same way when you first start out, you unless you start in with a very massive account, which I do hear stories about people doing that, like they've been successful in somewhere else in their life. And I think that it's just going to carry over into trading, you know, and they go in big and it doesn't end well. You have heard stories like that. So I wanted to also ask you, Rob, about your YouTube channel that you've got going. I was checking it out earlier, it looks really cool. Tell me a little bit about it and tell all of the listeners about your YouTube channel. All right. When I first got started trading years ago, I heard this story and it sort of was told me to really talk about how important risk management was in position management, that two traders had a theory that it didn't matter how you chose stocks, it didn't matter how you entered them and to prove this point, they took the Wall Street Journal quote pages, hung them up on a wall and took darts and they threw the darts. at the pages and whatever stock the dart hit, they would then take a coin and flip it. Heads would go long, tails would go short. And all they did was have trade management. Sell the losers, hold the winners. And the story was they did this every month, 10 trades and they never had a losing month. I have scoured the internet trying to find that data because I want that data. I found the story, it comes from Richard Dennis and the Turtle Traders, but there's no data. I want the data. So I've been wanting this data for a long time and I couldn't find it and I said, you know what, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. So I started what I call the Flat Earth Trading Society on YouTube and I'm very publicly making these trades and I'm using random methods. We're turning over Scrabble tiles. We've done some darts. We did a Ouija board once. The Ouija board trade, I can't remember if the Ouija board made money or lost money. But look, we're just doing dumb random methods. go online and use my trading system. Well, it's got to be random. It's got to be random. So I'm having a lot of fun doing it. you're on trade, what trade are you on, trade 36? Okay, okay, so give us a little teaser here. What are you learning? So we're learning that you literally, once you enter that trade, you have no control. No, you have control of your actions, but you have no control of the trade. And I tell people that the reason that position management can also come very difficult to people is that you are literally invested in your trade. You've put money into it, but you've also put time. The more research you put into a trade, the more likely you are to blow your position management. Just think about it. You research this trade for days. You've been waiting for this trade for days. You know who the CEO is. And now you get into that trade, and the trade doesn't work out. For you to get out of that trade, you have to say that all that time and effort you put into it was wrong. And you're now invested into it. You're invested. And you're also thinking, okay, well, I know I did my work, so it's gonna turn around because man, this company is great. Yeah, yeah. happening. Those turn out to be your worst trades. You could have gotten out of it, but you couldn't get out of it because you were so invested. There is a point where doing too much research is detrimental to your trade. When you get over invested. And I will fight that one. The reason why this experiment is so easy is because... Can you imagine if you were flipping a coin, whether or not you went long or short? And then, and then saying, I'm not going to get out of this loser. Like there's no way I'm getting out of this trade. I know this trade. Well, how did you choose it? I flipped a coin. Like there's, there's no ego involved anymore. You just understand that you follow the system. And so that's what we really found out. Uh, we had a really nice game earlier. We were at like a, a four and a half profit factor at first. And I told everyone. This is definitely not going to last. There's no way you're going to maintain a 4.5 profit factor. And sure enough, it's come back down into the ones. But it's been a very fun experiment. I've committed to do at least 100. I think 100 is a big enough sample size for me to get the data. And here's the funny thing. Same rules on every trade. Same rules. beautiful. I am gonna go check that out. It's Flat Earth Trading Society on YouTube. We'll put the link in the description. I love that. Absolutely love it. That's so good. And I'm, look, everyone's like, you know, everyone's like popcorn, eating popcorn, like how's this gonna turn out? I'm the same way. I have no idea. I might look like a complete idiot by the end of this. the system? Like what, what did you, how much time did you put into actually developing the system you're gonna use for this channel? Um, I'm going to say 23 years now, not really, not really 20 years. It's, it's a, it's a deviation from, um, my Forex trading strategy that I have. Um, I really love the concept of a trailing stop. So we use a trailing stop and actual trailing stop. at the Flatter Trading Society. In my real trading, I tie my trading stops to things like moving averages, parabolic stars, other indicators to where they're always tied to something else. But this one is just a straight ATR. We start with a 2X ATR. So ATR is average true range. It basically measures the volatility of the position. So a more volatile stock will have a larger ATR. Because a more volatile stock stock, you need a wider stop in order to not get knocked out just on random movements. So the ATR moves for how volatile it is. So a 2x ATR, and we use options pricing to figure this out, 2x ATR equates to about a 33% chance of being stopped out within the first five days. So that's the actual data behind it. So doing a 2x ATR stop, you have about a 33, 34% chance of getting stopped out in the first five days of the trade, which means you also have a 33% chance of having a 2X ATR profit at the end of five days. your selection is random, but what about your instruments? What are you trading? Is it like currencies or is it everything? We're trading everything most of them is stocks most of the stocks, but we've done some metals. We've done some currencies Look trading is trading whatever you trade. It's a symbol and It's a bid and ask and that bid and ask will go up and down based on supply and demand It doesn't matter That's why you say trading is trading. It doesn't matter what it is. It's all the same So what are you gonna do after this experiment's over with this channel? I'm going to take a little break. It's a lot of work. You know, luckily, I've got a team. I started out just doing it on my own, and then I realized I bit off a little more than I could chew. And I brought in some of the team from Maverick Trading. I'm doing all the entries, and they're taking care of all the exits and the record keeping and all that stuff. So we'll take a break, and we might make some changes to the position management and do another round of 100 and see what happens. Very cool. look, the whole point is not to make money or to see how much money we can make. The whole point of the channel is to really show people how important this is. All the books, and the reason why we call it the Flat Earth Trading Society was the conspiracy. What is the conspiracy of the trading world? And in my mind, the biggest conspiracy in the trading world is how much the entry matters. 97% of all the books written. are about the entry. All of the YouTube channels are about the entries. The exit is just as important, if not more important. And it's the place where everyone screws it up. And why? Because at the entry, you're using your prefrontal cortex. At the exit, you're using your insula. That's what the whole thing is about. And I really want to get this out to traders, just to show them that you can make money. off of just the exit. That's the whole point of the channel. Yeah, that's pretty good training, good mindset, good education. I'm excited to see what's going on with that. I have subscribed. I'm going to watch. I want to see your strategy. I want to see how it all plays out. That's pretty cool. Tell everybody about your website if they're interested in getting some education or using some of your prop trading as well. All right, so MaverickTrading.com, we are a US based options and equity trading firm. If you're interested in trading options and equities, we are a prop firm, which means that we back you with capital. You come in, you join us, you have to go through our qualification program to make sure that you are really qualified to trade. There's online tests, you have to develop a very comprehensive trading plan. and you've got to have trading statements that match that trading plan. So those are our three requirements. Once you pass that, you're allowed to trade firm capital. And then we enter into a 70 30 profit split and that can go up to 80 20. The best traders were a meritocracy at Maverick. So the best traders, they get more capital and the bad traders, they get less capital. That's just how it works. That's the world of trading. be bad if they qualify, though. So they're still not bad traders. They're still better than most. Well, no, but that's a great thing. Everyone qualifies. Everyone gets to that point. But when you get out into the market, it's no longer about your system. It's no longer about your back testing. It's about how well can you adhere to your trading plan in the face of adversity? And everyone is wildly different at that point. And then let me tell you about Maverick Currencies. If you're interested in Forex or crypto trading, we have the same thing over at maverickcurrencies.com. Same structure, same everything. Just a little bit different division. Very cool, well I'll put all the links on the website and I'll just recommend everybody that's listening, check it out. I appreciate this conversation, Rob. Very cool, loved learning about risk management, trading psychology, very good stuff. Must needed, so important. Way to execute on that. So and thank you so much for being on the show today. Thanks for having me on, Casey. Alright, well that's it for today's episode. We'll sign off, but thank you!