Michele Borba, Ed.D; How to Raise Children Who Thrive

Montare Media presents Season 2, episode 20 of the Discover U Podcast with JD Kalmenson: How to Raise Children Who Thrive with Michele Borba, Ed.D

Learn More about Montare Behavioral Health: https://montarebehavioralhealth.com/about/digital-library/

JD Kalmenson’s interviews Dr. Michele Borba about her latest book, Thrivers, which outlines the character traits most correlated with resilience, and suggests simple every-day things parents can do to develop these in their children. Dr. Borba shares her years of research and hands on experience with humor and wisdom. 

​​Dr. Borba is an internationally renowned educational psychologist, parenting /child expert, a best-selling author, and a sought-after motivational speaker. Dr. Borba has spoken in 19 countries and served as a consultant for hundreds of schools and corporations worldwide, including Sesame Street, Harvard University, and the US Armed Services, to name just a few. Dr. Borba is a regular on the TODAY show, and has appeared on countless other media outlets, including Dr. Phil, The View, and CNN. Her work is featured in major newspapers and journals like TIME Magazine, The Washington Post, Newsweek, and The New York Times. Dr. Borba’s award-winning 24 books have been translated into 22 languages, and she is the recipient of numerous national and international awards, recognizing her expertise in solution-based strategies to strengthen children’s empathy, and social-emotional intelligence. She offers research-based parenting advice culled from a career working with over one million parents and educators around the world. 

 Host Kalmenson is the CEO/Founder of Renewal Health Group, a family of addiction treatment centers, and Montare Behavioral Health, a comprehensive brand of mental health treatment facilities in Southern California. Kalmenson is a Yale Chabad Scholar, a skilled facilitator, teacher, counselor, and speaker, who has provided chaplain services to prisons, local groups and remote villages throughout the world. His diverse experience as a rabbi, chaplain, and CEO has inspired his passion and deep understanding of the necessity for effective mental health treatment and long-term sobriety.

Follow JD at JDKalmenson.com

Transcript

JD Kalmenson: 

Welcome to another episode of Discover U, our podcast exploring innovative and effective solutions to issues in behavioral health. I'm JD Kalmenson, CEO of Montare Behavioral Health, a family of dynamic treatment centers in Southern California. I'm so honored and excited to introduce you to our incredible guest today. Dr. Michelle Borba. Dr. Borba is amazingly accomplished. To share her full bio will take our entire hour, so I'm gonna dive right in and give you a summary, a short summary of the highlights of her career. She is an internationally renowned educational psychologist, parenting child expert, bestselling author, and a sought-after motivational speaker. Dr. Borba has spoken in 19 countries, and served as a consultant for hundreds of schools and corporations worldwide, including Sesame Street, Harvard University, and the US Armed Services to name just a few. Dr. Borba is a regular on the Today Show and has appeared on countless other media outlets, including Dr. Phil, The View, and CNN. Her work is featured in major newspapers and journals like Time Magazine, The Washington Post, Newsweek, and the New York Times. Dr. Borba’s award-winning 24 books have been translated into 22 languages and she's the recipient of numerous national and international awards recognizing her expertise in solution-based strategies to strengthening children's empathy and social emotional intelligence. She offers research-based parenting advice called from a career working with over 1 million parents and educators around the world. Today, we're going to focus on discussing the content from her latest book. So pertinent for the challenges our children currently face called Thrivers. The surprising reasons why some kids struggle, and others shine. Welcome Dr. Borba. I am so looking forward to speaking with you, both as someone from whom mental health is a passion and a calling, and as a parent of a bunch of young children myself.

Michele Borba:

Oh, JD, I've been looking forward to this. I'm gonna hire you as my PR firm. Thank you for that introduction.

JD Kalmenson:

This is exciting. So it's a tricky time to be a child. Yeah. And a very tricky time to be a parent. There's so much uncertainty, chaos, and violence in the news every day. The statistics on mental health in children and adolescents in the last few years are alarming. You’ve worked with kids for a very long time and say that you've never been more worried than you are about this current generation. Can you give us some insight? Why, why the current time? Why is this so different from previous challenging times? 

Michele Borba:

Well, I think first of all, we parent each generation based on the culture we're raising our kids in.  And if there's anything we all I think are gonna be in agreement in, it's a different culture, it's social media driven, it's more terrorist driven. It's more graphic image driven. Play has kind of been reduced from our kids' childhoods in life. It's more test driven in terms of GPA. When you add all of that up, what we're looking at is a different kind of childhood for today's kids. And I think it also means we need to reboot our parenting and our thinking. Not that we're not gonna love our kids dearly and offer them the same wonderful kinds of traditions that we always have. But I think we need to kind of be a little more farsighted in terms of what's gonna happen when our kids grow up. And are they really gonna be prepared for a very uncertain kind of a new world? 

JD Kalmenson:

Yes, that is so true. I mean, in the work that you've been doing, you highlight seven qualities that are essential to building our children's character in the book, Thrivers. Everybody, you know, thinks about resilience, but you actually broaden that the seven qualities. Can you tell us what those qualities or character strengths are?

Michele Borba:

Oh, I'd love to because the first thing is little backtrack and of a footnote on this. You and I, I think have been concerned about growing trends of mental health concerns with our kids for quite a while. When I started writing Thrivers, it was one in five American kids was gonna suffer from a mental health disorder, then came the pandemic. And a pandemic, by the way, only amplifies the preexisting issue. It didn't mean it wasn't there before, right? But it means that now we're looking at one in three American children. So I was starting to do focus groups with kids across the US and every single kid pre oh gosh, precious kids would always say, you know, we're the most stressed-out generation. And then they began to tell me that the top reason why was that they weren't being prepared for adversity. I then looked at thousands of pieces of really good science that says, here are teachable things that we can do to boost kids' resilience. Or here are kids who overcame extreme adversity. And when I was looking for was what do they have in common? Are there a few things that are teachable that aren't locked into DNA? I came up with seven character strengths. Confidence, so the kid understands who they are, not what we want them to be. The second one is empathy. So kids are raised more as, as we, not me. Social competence is huge for resilience.

Third self-control that you can put a break on the impulses. So stress doesn't keep on going. Fourth is integrity. The kids who have strong moral codes seem to be able to be able to get through the tougher times, easier says the science. Then comes curiosity. You're more open to possibilities. You're a problem solver. Mommy isn't gonna rescue you. You know that there's nothing so great that can't be solved. That's key. Then comes perseverance, whatever it is, I'm not quitting. I'm not giving up. I'm gonna take whatever the problem is in little, teeny chunks along the way. And finally you have an optimistic outlook. Not that you're gonna be Pollyanna, but that you have a way to look at the bad stuff and say, I got this. I can do it. There's seven. By the way, it's a rare person that has all seven. But if we can start teaching these, the good news is not only do they boost resilience, they also increase kids wellbeing and, teachers sit up, they also increase engagement in a classroom and make your kid be more of a peak performer. So it's not either or. These are the things that are really gonna matter above all else. 

JD Kalmenson:

I love what you're saying. More often than not everybody approaches the entire discussion of parenting from a crisis intervention perspective. What do I do if my kid does that, what do I do with this type of a challenge with this type of a crisis? And here you come along, and you say, let's be proactive about their resilience, their emotional wellness, their health. Yeah. And the same way we do that in every other area of our health. For example, you know, we all go to the gym or want to go to the gym or can appreciate going to the gym. We could all appreciate eating healthy, but somehow with parenting, this idea of being proactive and strategic and thoughtful in getting ahead of it, instead of trying to deal with the problem is, is not, is not spoken about enough and, and highlighting character strengths to be able to imbue and impart is so refreshing and so vital. So thank you . 

Michele Borba:

Oh no, thank you. I think we all need to get on board together. Yeah. We need to reimagine parenting. So our kids do turn out right. I think the most dismal stat I saw was that 77% of the time we focus on our kids' deficits. What do we need to fix as opposed to what are their strengths? If we lead with their strengths… I mean, it doesn't mean you're not gonna stop helping them when they're struggling in math, but let's focus the majority of time on preventative measures, find out who this child of ours really is. And then lead that way. We're gonna create a happier, healthier kind of a kid. Who's also gonna have be more purpose driven.

JD Kalmenson: 

Absolutely. I mean, the, the reality is I I've seen this firsthand visiting 40 correctional facilities throughout the Western part of the country as a chaplain. And I've seen almost 10 out of 10, almost a hundred percent of the inmates that I encountered were not affirmed and validated by their parents. They weren’t supported and they were not empowered, and they were not meant to feel like they have value and that they have beauty and that they have dignity. Think about the optimization that we might not have because of that type of flawed parenting. And you know, it's so interesting that in every conceivable sort of part of professional society, you need licensures, and you need accreditations to get in a car. And these all make so much sense and you need, you know, to be a nurse and to, you know, to sell a house as a realtor, you need to have a license. And perhaps one of the most important things we'll ever do in our life and the stakes could not be higher, which is being a parent, you know, there isn't, I obviously, there, there shouldn't be a formal licensure accreditation to be a parent, but wouldn't it be amazing if people approached it from the perspective of, wow, this is an incredible monumental task, a difficult challenging one, one that I know nothing about. And one that will impact the people I love the most.

Michele Borba:

Oh boy, are we on the same page? Yeah. The other thing is, I think what we gotta do is start looking at what the science is telling us. And it doesn't mean we need to be research as affiliates, but we need to start looking at the stuff that science says will maximize our abilities to raise up a strong generation of kids. Simple little changes and switches can make an amazing difference. And I think a lot of times we're mismatching the science with what we're doing day to day. 

JD Kalmenson:

 You know, and when we were in camp as a staff members, we used to refer jokingly to visiting day as “aha” day, because you dealing with this kid for six, eight weeks, and you wonder where all the strengths and the flaws are coming from, and then you meet the parents for an hour and you go, aha.

Michele Borba:

 Yeah. That's exactly it. So let's look at simple things we can do. So we don't stress ourselves out. We really can do this and it's not locked into kids' DNA. We also gotta reboot resilience that it's not this program or another fancy tutor or difficult things. It's just finding simple little things that we know our kids need and weave them into our existing family. And if we do 'em day to day for a couple of minutes a day, that's how you create habits. That's how you create lifelong change and there's where are we gonna start. 

JD Kalmenson:

Okay. So this is so exciting to actually meet you in person. We don't usually get to do that at Discover U 

Michele Borba: 

I'm so glad face to face is, is so much better thought. Thank you. Thank you. 

JD Kalmenson:

So this is an incredibly timely and relevant conversation that we're in the middle of engaged in. What we left off really was in your research in putting this incredible book together. Thrivers, was there anything that was counterintuitive that emerged from your research that you're like, I did not expect to see that.

Michele Borba:

Oh, so much. I think the most important takeaway was I didn't expect to see so much research that began to describe simple ordinary things that we can do can make extraordinary differences on helping kids bounce back. For instance, phenomenal researchers have been looking at children who have overcome extraordinary adversity. Hopefully our children will never encounter like homelessness and poverty, war zones, sexual abuse. How come some of them bounced back? And they found number one, there was always a caring person in their lives. If not the parent, it was the teacher. The second thing was finding what worked for the child. For instance, in some cases it was a hobby. He said, I went to that hobby, I listened to music and I was always, it would always help me. In some cases, it was prayer. I always would pray the moment that all those guards would keep walking me into that school after desegregation and all those angry parents were yelling at me and I'd say, why, why are they behaving like that? God should forgive them for being so unkind. That's what got through. So it was looking for simple things. I think the takeaway on that one is watch your child. Does he have a healthy thing to turn to when life gets a little rough because he's gonna need those things in today's uncertain world. 

JD Kalmenson:

I love that. I love that. I mean, on a personal level that really worked with one of my sons. We started giving him the guitar lessons and his entire behavior changed dramatically. He felt so much more confident, so much more secure and he had a safe place that he would just jump into whenever there was too much stimulation. So it really helped on so many different levels. 

Michele Borba:

Well, there's a takeaway on that one. Watch your child a little carefully without them knowing you're tuning in. Take an index card. And what does they, what do they gravitate towards? What are they eager to do? What, where's their tenacity a little longer? What brings them the joy? For heaven's sakes, make sure you provide more time for your child to go to that activity. For some kids, they'll say it's nature. It's walking, it's soccer. It's the play date, right? Whatever it is, that's your child's natural nature. And that's the first trait of a thriver. They have confidence because the parent knows who the child is and they tailor their parenting towards the child. That's not what they want them to become. 

JD Kalmenson:

I haven't seen the data, but I've been told that other countries outside of America, specific countries have much lower rates of addiction and suicidality because the family unit specifically the parents have so much of a stronger presence and support that you literally see the results because everybody will encounter adversarial circumstances at a certain point in their life. Life is not perfect. And in a sense to, to impart that message to your child, that everything's going to be rosy. To just make them so much more naive and shocked when it, they do encounter the real world. But the love and support that you give them will stand them through.

Michele Borba: 

Well two points on that that are just like right on the mark. Everything you say is right on the mark. But the first thing is stress is part of our children's lives. If we always coddle them or rescue them, what it does is actually rob resilience because the child doesn't realize I can do this. I got this right. And the second thing, the research is very clear back to which countries help raise the healthier children. UNESCO actually does state of the art studies every year they look at which countries, high economics, low economics actually produce happier wellbeing kids. Wow. And the correlation is from the lowest level. It was Vanuatu. I actually went to the island of Vanuatu to figure out why is this such a happy place? I got it's a little island in the south Pacific. I got off the boat and within seconds, this is a cruise liner.

I knew children were standing there saying, hi, we're glad you're here. What's your name? It was a friendly place. So friendly. The kids were all smiling. Everybody was friendly. I finally two pulled kids aside. I pulled them aside and said, why are you so friendly here? Best answer ever because everybody else is. Oh my gosh. Example 1 0 1. So the first thing is create a friendly environment because that's a safe haven for a child. Whether it's the school, whether it's the neighborhood, whether it's your family. But the second thing is the rest of what they discovered on the research was that families or closeness was prioritized. Just like you said. So the child really had that family unit and I fear that's breaking down. Yes. So there goes resilience 1 0 1 again.

JD Kalmenson:

It's true. But you know, as you're saying that, I'm so like envious of that mentality and that culture. But I question whether I can adapt that radically in a place where you're living in an urban environment, where if the children are conditioned to be friendly to the extreme, does that open them up to potentially getting hurt? Whether it's crime, whether it's assault. I mean, what's the balance, you know, I don't know like…

Michele Borba:

Well, first of all, I love the term balance because parenting is always a balance. No matter where we go, there's a key word. But the second thing is, I think we've made kindness or social competence look like it's soft and fluffy, when, in reality it's transformational. Empathy, the second, most highly correlated trait of those seven that we were talking about in Thrivers, is absolutely essential for wellbeing. But we also want a child who also can self-advocate, right? So they can be kind, but we also wanna teach them how to step up and speak up for themselves so they can defend themselves and others. And that's a big piece of resilience.

JD Kalmenson:

And the key is to not dumb it down, that it's either one or the other, like you're saying there are seven and they're all important. And to balance them is so vital. You know, I wanna share with you a thought from my tradition and it has to do with the biblical story of Joseph. Joseph, as some of the listeners might know, was the apple of his father's eye. His father loved him unconditionally and really favored him, which irked the ire and the jealousy of the brothers, which wasn't a great thing. But he gave him this beautiful, colorful tunic at any rate. The brothers had enough one day. Sibling rivalry turns violent and they sell him as a slave, down to Egypt. 

JD Kalmenson:

He ends up in prison and then he ends up one thing leads to the next. He has this reputation as a dream interpreter. The Pharaoh has some dreams, which he does not know what they mean. And he's petrified by the meaning of the dreams. Seven skinny cows and seven fat cows, seven skinny stalks of grain, seven large stalks of grain.And he hears about this prisoner, this Hebrew prisoner, who might have the answers he takes 'em outta prison. And he says, can you tell me what this means? And so Joseph says, well, they are referring to seven years of famine and seven years of plenty, which will plague Egypt, but the plenty will come first. And if you prepare for the famine during the years of plenty, you will not only survive, but you'll thrive because everybody else will end up, you know, begging for food from you. And the Pharaoh not only listens to him, appoints him to be the Viceroy. And everybody wants to know why is Pharaoh so enamored with him? And one thought I heard was because what Pharoah was able to detect in Joseph's interpretation and articulation of this interpretation is that it was coming from an experiential place. Because he, in his own life experienced years of emotional, plenty, an overabundance of love from his father. He was able to store it and inculcate it into a place where it became an integral part of his confidence of his self-image. And even when he experienced years of emotional famine later betrayed by his family, living in a foreign country, alone, in prison, he was still confident, upbeat, and jovial because he had managed to take that, to take the years of emotional plenty and store it. And that really reminds me of what you were saying about, you know, when you impart and imbue in your children, that sense of deep unconditional love it'll stand them through whenever their teenage years or college years or, or later they're going to experience years of potentially, you know, emotional famine or just challenges that they never experienced as a child. 

Michele Borba:

I, I love that story. And you've also just nailed something that's so, so critical. And that was preparing for the adversity. Yes. And I don't think we do that nearly enough or at all. What all of research says is resilience is made up of skills, skills that are teachable. It isn't that you teach 'em at age 13 or 16 or 43. You start when they're little, when don't speak for your child, let them speak for themselves. That would be number one. When they have a problem, age four, honey, I know that your answers inside your head, let's just storm your brain of another idea. Don't rescue them. We keep using those everyday moments. And what we're actually doing is instilling what I discover were 21 core life skills. Each one of those traits has three skills that are teachable. So if we keep looking at which ones am I already teaching, I've got it. Which ones do I need to do next? That'll be next. What we'll actually be doing is preparing our child for a life that they can do best role of parenting. So they can live a life well without us, someday that's it.

So we start with making sure that that child has knowledge of his strengths because that's key. The second thing is we make sure that there's empathy or social competence or that caring mindset, and that child thinks more we not me. That's key because we know that…

JD Kalmenson:

We teach these. So do you teach it by skills or do you talk, you use those words and, and talk about those characteristics. How, what's the practical way to communicate this?

Michele Borba:

The practical way to communicate it is the best way to teach a skill is to show it, not tell it. Examples are how kids learn these best, not worksheets, not bulletin boards, not fancy tutors. So we can all breathe again. We just have to be intentional and identify which skill does our child need this month or this year, or my family need. And then you find simple little, everyday ways, maybe a minute or two a day. But if you keep doing that, that's how you instill habits. 

JD Kalmenson:

That's amazing. And I I'm sorry, I interrupted you, but after empathy, you were little talking about this, the skill set.

Michele Borba:

Oh, oh, self-control That's the ability to put the brakes on impulses. And we're looking at those three who really have taken a nosedive. And at the same time during the pandemic, what we're looking is a loneliness epidemic that has skyrocketed, a mental health crisis that has been unprecedented, children going to ER visits for depression. They don't have anything that's the preventative mode to be able to keep them strong from the inside. And that's what we wanna do. Fix our kids make 'em strong from the get-go.

JD Kalmenson:

It's true. And you know, self-control is a word that's almost taboo with, with, you know, today's modern world where if I feel it, it must be right. And we immediately identify with the whims and the impulses when we should probably recognize that we're very complex. And there are parts of ourselves that might be inclined to things that are not necessarily healthy for us. So self-control…

Michele Borba:

Well, exactly. Perhaps to the point. Well, in the first start of that self-control is focusing. So what happens to our children right now? They're in a now generation of everything is instant and instantly accessible. The other thing is social media. We do know that that's removing our children's attention span. Not that we need to maybe okay, stop doing it all together, but it also needs to be a real key question as a parent. Every time we watch our child doing whatever it is for a lengthy period of time, is it healthy? And if they continue to do the activity, then ask yourself, okay, so what are they plugging out of?  And that's the piece that I think is really essential because their sleep is also going, they're the most sleep deprived generation we've ever seen. And there goes self-control.

JD Kalmenson:

Life is not so simple anymore because when you're on social media, there's always gonna be somebody who is a little more talented or at least can take pictures that make them appear to be more talented than what you identify as your strong straight trait. And you're just exposed to this overwhelming amount of stim that it's gonna be very difficult to feel secure. So I think there is a direct correlation there. 

Michele Borba:

Well, the research is on your side on that one direct correlation, because it also makes a comparison, competitive society, particularly we're finding social media is really impacting 11 to 13 year old girls who really want to be like the others and, and be valued. And as a result, they don't have that inner sense of who I am. They're always trying to copy the others. And there goes, yes. Number one, confidence.

JD Kalmenson:

Yes. I mean, you talk about eating disorders right now, which are incredibly on the rise, unfortunately, with the adolescent population and this idea, this notion that, you know, this story that comes to mind, there was an author. I think his name was CS Lewis. And he was once invited to some wealthy hedge fund manager's house or a party and the hedge fund manager jokes with him. And he says, you know, I make more in one month than you've made in your entire career. Even from your Magnum Opus bestselling book. And he says, yes, but I have something that you will never have. And he says, what's that? He says enough, that's what I have. And I think that is not a value that's being conveyed on any social media platform… The smartphone is there an age that you would recommend? Is there

Michele Borba:

I would, yeah. Recommend is delay it as long as possible, because what we're finding is that well, let, let's look at what's now happening in today's digital driven world. One third of babies now have iPads. We're looking at parents who are putting Goodnight Moon onto an iPad, putting it into the bed and saying goodnight. And what do we know of is the seeds for empathy, face to face connection. Hugging your baby. And the best, best toy you could ever use for your baby is your, is a human face. Make those faces make those silly voices 

Michele Borba:

When we look at empathy, our children are hardwired for it. It has dropped tremendously. We're talking 40% in 30 years, while narcissism “I'm better than you” has gone up 58% in American kids. That's college freshmen over the last 30 years. Now we look at the why. Well, there's a lot of variables. First of all, if you always look at a screen, you're looking down, not up. What's the first rule of thumb on that one. Make a rule in your house. Always look at the color of the talker's eyes. What happens is your face goes up. You start to look at the face. Number two, talk to your child, but get down eyeball to eyeball level with your child. As they're talking two, threes and fours, just talk back on their emotions. Oh honey, you look so happy. Aw, that must have made you feel so sad. Oh my gosh. How sad you must be. Oh, but look how happy you are there. It's emotion coaching.  What they've discovered is that parents who do that simple little thing actually have children who are better able to read emotions later on. They become better at perspective taking and cognitive understanding. They're more engaged learners by the age of nine, 10 and 11. This stuff is so science backed, but it's simple little rituals and routines. And the final thing is read. Don't stop reading to your child. Goodnight Moon. Okay. But the Wednesday Surprise or The Hundred Dresses, or why is Harry Potter and wonder so popular to kids?  Because it's literary fiction. You get into the shoes of the character. 

Wanna know something real fun to do? Put a, just an old sheet over the top of a dining room table. It's now a reading fort. And every night at seven o'clock, everybody goes in drag the dog, drag the flashlights and everybody read together. You don't have to do it when your kid is a teen. But I'm talking with the little kids. What happens is not only a rituals and routines, one of the best ways to reduce stress is just reading and enjoying one another. You'll also increase his vocabulary. But there's nothing better in terms of helping a child learn empathy by getting into the shoes of somebody beside themself. 

JD Kalmenson:

I love that you chose that as one of the first characteristics, because not only does it make society better, it actually encourages us to take care of ourselves because we're empathetic with ourselves, our own health, our own wellness. When somebody is chasing a promotion at the expense of their sleep, their eating habits, their relationships, they're not having empathy for their own sacred temple, their body, their life. And so empathy is just this really all-inclusive word that makes us better, society better. 

Michele Borba:

Have you noticed something else happening across the world right now? It's called burnout 101. What happened to burnout? Well, when stress builds, the natural phenomenon is you gotta take care of yourself. So you dial your stress, you dial your empathy down to take care of yourself. And if you keep doing that, burnout becomes the outcome. We haven't been connecting with others. Our kids have losing out on those play dates, you know, just soccer 1 0 1 on the field, simple things. Right? Just keep in mind that relationships really count.  And social competence is highly correlated to mentally healthier kids.

JD Kalmenson:

It's incredible. I mean, the, one of the things you mentioned a second ago was about the time that you spend the real face time versus the iPad time. The there's a story I heard many years ago about a child who greets his dad after long day of work. And he says, dad, how much you make an hour? And the father is just so frustrated and annoyed. He had a really hard day and now his kids ask him how much you make an hour. And he blows up in him and he sends him to his room. And after several minutes, the father says, you know what? I was just overly harsh. And I was bringing my work, heaviness, and baggage to my house. That's not okay. And he walks into his son's room, and he puts his hand around his son's shoulder. And he says, son, I'm sorry for blowing up. I make $25 an hour. But why do you wanna know? And the son jumps out of his bed, goes to the piggy bank that where he stores all his dollar bills and coins that he's been saving up and he counts out $25. And he says, can I have an hour of your time?

Michele Borba:

Oh man. Hello. 

JD Kalmenson:

So

Michele Borba:

Knife goes through the heart, right?

JD Kalmenson:

It does. It does. But the reality is that some parents have more time than others. And so what I'd like to know is what's the tip. What's the advice you would give for those who just don't have that? I mean, quality over quantity. What's, what's the approach. When parents are busy, is there something they can do that even within a small amount of time, a constrained resource of time can have a high effectiveness.

Michele Borba:

Here's the most fascinating study I've seen in science. They asked themselves all the psychologists of all these 50,000 different studies on parenting, what matters most? So they combed thousands and thousands of pieces of research on parenting. They isolated and they came down with 10 things. The 10 most important things that make an effective parent. Number one on the list we've already discussed. And it's a no brainer. You love your kid unconditionally. You love them and there's firm limits. But number two, on the list we overlook has nothing to do with what we do to the child. It has to do with how we take care of ourselves. It's a parent who handles stress themselves, keeps their own stress at bay. So it doesn't mirror down to the child. So when you asked, what's the best thing to do at the moment, take a slow breath, sit down. And even if it's 30 seconds, how is your day? That's just calm and cool. You always get a better response. See, it's simple little ordinary things, but that intentionally means as a parent, I gotta take that breath. So I don't react to my child. I respond. And when I have those moments, the memories were just calm and cool together. And that's how you create, by the way, a calmer cooler kid.

JD Kalmenson:  

That's amazing. People just, it it's so important cuz we don't take that into account just a minute or two. Before you walk into the house, can take that 20 minutes that you spend with your child, that half hour and make it so much more valuable than four hours on a Sunday when you're all stressed out and checking your phone. 

Michele Borba:

Well, the other thing that, yeah, exactly. But the other thing I think we should do is carve in what are the times that most of us are together. Maybe it's only 10 minutes or 20 minutes or whenever it is, I would say one of those moments is the carpool utilize that the kid is locked in the car with you. So when they walk in, you turn the radio off and phones go on the front seat and you talk, you aren't gonna get an open conversation at the beginning. If you haven't had that for a while, but use those moments when your child is there with you dinner time, if you're there to dinner. Now some parents it's not dinner, maybe it's breakfast because there's night shifts, whatever it works, make it that moment. So that everybody's phone goes in a box. 

JD Kalmenson: 

Yes. I mean, you know, don't work so hard trying to make a living that you forget to live. And when you talked about the carpool, I love that so much because what happens is we're stressed in the morning. We get stuck in traffic and there's this tense energy and we're frustrated. And the most frustrating part of traffic really is because we think that we're not supposed to be where we are. We shouldn't be in traffic. I mean, if, it legitimately took you a longer amount of time to get somewhere without traffic, you wouldn't feel frustrated cuz that's the distance. So the, at the root of feeling frustrated of being in traffic is because there's some part of you that feels I don't belong here right now. And this is a waste of time. But if this is a bond building experience where I get to spend time with my child, not only am I spending time with them, it elevates and transforms the whole traffic experience. 

Michele Borba:

And maybe instead of trying to do so much each month, we just get a post it and go, here's the one little thing this month I'm gonna try to work on to be a better human being or a better parent, put it on your mirror and keep watching it. You wanna know how you can really be accountable to that. tell your most verbal child to be your reminder. Ooh. They never let you down. Mom. Remember we're supposed to be doing that one plus two breathing stuff. Just simple things really make a difference. 

So take your child from where they are and use the rubber band technique. Your goal is to gently stretch them without snapping them. Keep figuring out where they are right now and maybe each month or each week, teach them one little skill. You always identify the skill. Maybe it's I don't care if it's making the bed or doing your own homework or putting gas in the car. What is it that they're gonna need eventually, by the way, most high school kids say finances, I don't have a clue on how to do my checkbook or how do the heck do I make that work out? And I'm going off to college to an Ivy league school. I don't know what to do. So what do you think your child needs to be able to be that independent autonomous individual who says” I got it.” So you identify it. The first thing you then do is show the child how to do it, show it second of all, you do it then together. So that you're side by side, you're doing it. Then you step back a little bit and you say, show me at that point, your child is going to be able to show you that he's doing it correctly. Or maybe he's making the bed and not put in the fold right under correctly. No, let's, let's correct that once he has it and you've gone through those steps, you keep stepping back and never do for your child, what your child can do for himself. And if you use that over and over again, you're gonna help your child become the, “I got this” kind of a kid who is a thriver. That's what a thriver is. An autonomous kid. 

JD Kalmenson:

I love that. I love that because the whole perspective is a paradigm shift. Parenting is not a specific set of instructions telling you what to do in this case and what not to do in that case. But the way when you started to articulate what the goal is, Thrivers, and to really empower them to be autonomous, “I got it” type of people. So it's almost like, you know, you don't have to give directions. If I see the destination, even if it's at a great distance, as long as I see it, I can inch my way closer towards there and whatever age and whatever specific set of challenges is inhibiting their independent autonomy, “I got this” mindset, then I know that that's something that has to be worked on at that moment. So that's, that's really incredible staying focused on the goal. And not on the technique.

Michele Borba:

Yeah, exactly. And what you actually are doing each time you do that is build up first strength, confidence. You are more and more “I've got this” second thing along the way is you're developing an optimistic outlook. So the child feels hopeful about life and not helpless because the less he can do, the more likely he'll go. What's the point I can't do it. And what you wanna do, according to all the research on Thrivers is helping that child develop a “it's gonna be okay,” kind of an outlook, not a Pollyanna, cuz it's not a Pollyanna kind of a world. It's a tough one and you gotta have a reality base, but he's gotta be able to have that mindset that I can work it through. I can forge my way through. That's why, when we look at the seven traits we started with confidence, then we went to empathy. Then we went to self-control. Integrity is critical, having a strong moral code, but five is curiosity. And that is having an openness to ideas and possibilities. What's so big about that, cuz there's gonna be a lot of problems along the way. And when a problem comes, I don't care if it's a big challenge or a little challenge, if he's sort of gotten along the way and he's, he's had successes, they all add up because now he's learned to be a problem solver. Which is one of the most highly correlated traits of a thriver. I got this mom. I can figure this out. It's okay. I can do it. That's just core to everything. So….

JD Kalmenson:

I mean, curiosity, you know, takes care of so many negative characteristics. I mean, if I'm curious, I'm not complacent. Yes. I'm gonna be innovative a problem solver. I'm going to be comfortable, not personalizing everything because you know, if I'm not, if I'm gonna personalize everything, I'm only gonna wanna tread in safe spaces and I'm never gonna broaden my horizons. So curiosity just includes so many…

Michele Borba:

Well look at how it blends with empathy too. If you're open to ideas and possibilities and people, you're gonna be more interested in finding out where is she coming from? What's that idea doesn't mean you have to agree. Tell the child, you don't have to agree, but try to find out where he or she is coming from that idea, that openness is so core to thriving. 

JD Kalmenson:

That is so brilliant. And I wanted to tell you what stood out right? When you said that empathy could be misunderstood.  As I have to be able to identify with your problem and then I can relate it and then I can feel for you. And that's why politicians will get up and say, we're gonna champion student, whatever it is healthcare, because this is what happened to me. And how long is like, who cares if it happened to you? If this is an issue that's going on in the country. You should tackle the issue. Empathy should be able to be larger than our own narrow limited experiences.

Michele Borba:

Oh yes.

JD Kalmenson:

You and you hit it on the button when you said curiosity, bolsters empathy. Because it allows us to broaden our emotional wherewithal to include aspects and dimensions of life that we may not have personally experienced. 

Michele Borba:

So that's so we're open to it. Oh my gosh. That's the social glue that holds the society together. That openness to find out about others. Because the other thing that we gotta be aware of is that we're more likely to empathize with those like us. My gender, my race, my culture, my religion, my whatever. And what we've gotta do is start exposing our children to differences. Cause it's a diverse world out there. Curiosity.

JD Kalmenson:

Yes. I love that. Does parenting ever end?

Michele Borba:

No.  it never ends. You think they're gone and it it's always there.  But there's a really good point along the way that you forget. I get to be at this point grandparenting. 

I have a four-year-old and a two-year-old grandchild children. When they come, you prioritize, you only have a little bit of time. What's the most important thing right now I'm gonna help Charlie learn. And it was tenacity right at age four. It was absolutely phenomenal. I just tell you because that's number six on the list. Once you have empathy, you have curiosity, and you have perseverance. You are gonna be able to change the world because you won't give up and change. So every time I'm with Charlie, remember Charlie, don't give up, keep going on there. Keep up. Remember Charlie be tenacious. His mother said after I had spent two days with him, she was trying to fix the faucet was really having a frustrating point. And she said, oh I quit. And he actually came up to her mom, mom, you can't quit. You gotta be tenacious. Don't ever give up mom. She says, I don't know what you've been saying to him, but boy, it really resonated. Find a message and keep storing it in your child. Because the more you say it, your voice, this is so powerful. Your voice becomes your child's inner voice. And now he'll be able to say, I got this. All by himself without your reminder. 

JD Kalmenson:

Yes. Last but not least for those who did not merit to read your books and be, and be inspired by these insights while they were parenting and they've done some damage, whether it was anger, whether it was a lack of validation or emphasizing achievements and accomplishments, obsessively, making their kids feel insecure. Is there hope, is there a way to undo it? Can they repair the damage?

Michele Borba:

Thank you for that question. Because the most powerful thing I learned when I was combing the research was it's never too late and no matter what the issue is, you can always flip it and turn it around. It'll take long.  And you gotta be tenacious with it.  But if you've got a plan and you don't give up and it's based with your love and commitment to your child, there Is always hope. I have story after story, after story of parents who said, I didn't believe that that would work, but you were right on the mark. It really does work. 

JD Kalmenson: 

Wow. How can people find out besides for the book Thrivers, about the work that you do?

Michele Borba:

My website's MicheleBorba.com. I'm a one L girl, Michele.  Thank you very much. One L Michelle and Borba runs with Zorba. There you go. MicheleBorba dot com. Thrivers is on resilience. The book that I wrote just before that is called Unselfie, on how you built, how you raise empathetic children with a lot of other books. But the goal is find one strategy at a time that works for you. And don't, you dare give up parents because we've got one job and that's to raise a strong generation of kids who thrive.

JD Kalmenson:

God bless you. That is amazing. And your efforts and the work that you do should be so incredibly successful because you're not just changing parents, but you're changing children, families, and generations. So that's amazing. Thank you. Oh, thank you. And thank you for taking the time the coming in person. This is so…

Michele Borba:

I'm so glad I did. 

JD Kalmenson:

This is, so this is such a great experience and thank you to our wonderful audience. I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did and are enlightened and inspired to walk home and to look at your children in the eyes and to give them the time of day so that we can really create Thrivers. To find out more about the work that we do, you could always visit Montare behavioral health, bh.com and access the podcast, the Discover U podcast, that wherever you would get your podcast. Wishing you safety, serenity, and a wonderful rest of your day.