Caregiver Rewards That Make an Impact

This episode of Home Care Heroes and Day Service Stars welcomes Joe Kraus and Linda Donev, a brother and sister team who have had a long and positive impact on the Home Care industry. Joe and Linda created the home care software that eventually became the Resmed / MatrixCare solution.  They're back for an encore performance with a new offering called Perks4Care. 

The episode starts with some fun brother / sister banter as they tell their story, but then they focus on what they learned from years of delivering caregiver rewards and how it inspired their product.

Some of their great suggestions for rewarding caregivers are as follows:

• It's better to give rewards often
• In addition to the monetary value of the reward, caregivers appreciate looking back at these accomplishments
• Gift cards make great rewards, but not every caregiver likes the same things (e.g., a Starbucks card isn't great for a caregiver who doesn't like coffee)
• Being able to cash in rewards and use gift cards on the spot is a great thing (and an app helps with that)
• Raffles (the chance for one lucky caregiver to win a big surprise each month) are a great way to enhance the value of the reward system

One of the things that I love about their offering is that they don't charge per caregiver per month and instead they just charge a small fee on top of the rewards that you purchase, PLUS they pay for the raffles out of their own profit.  This is why we'll be recommending Perks4Care to our Ankota customers.

Please enjoy the full episode with Joe and Linda and take the opportunity to learn more about their offering at perks4care.com.

Home Care Heroes and Day Service Stars is produced and sponsored by Ankota - If you provide services that enable older or disabled people to continue living at home , Ankota can provide you the software to successfully run your agency.. Visit us at https://www.ankota.com. 

Transcript

Joe Krause and Linda Donev have been in the home care industry for a long time. Today on the podcast, they're going to talk about some of the best practices for rewarding caregivers and making those rewards really matter to the caregivers. I think you're really going to enjoy this. 

Welcome to the Home Care Heroes and Day Service Stars podcast. If you provide services to keep older or disabled people living at home, then this podcast is for you. Now here's your host, Ken Accardi.

00:30

Welcome to the next installment of Home Care Heroes and Day Service Stars. I have two special guests today; two for the price of one, and they are named Joe Krause and Linda Donev. They are with a new company that's called Perks4Care and we're going to talk about an amazing topic, which is how to reward caregivers in creative ways and help to keep them engaged. 

So, Linda and Joe, I've known you guys for a minute. You're not like spring chickens in this home care and caregiving world. So why don't I give you a chance to introduce yourselves? How about age before beauty? I'm the older brother. So Linda got me into this industry back in, in the early nineties. She had a home care company. Actually, I should probably let you talk about your company, Linda. Okay. Yeah. I started in home care in actually 1985, um, and have been in nothing but home care since that time in some aspects. So.

01:23

fell into that right out of college where I had studied health administration. My first job was working for a company called Kelly Services, which had a healthcare division. They like to be considered the original personal care company. And my first job was a scheduling coordinator. So it was the job that I loved the most in my entire career that I probably never wanna do again, the passion. And I feel like I've learned everything about service by doing that job and doing it well. So I did that for...

01:53

a while in personal care, non-medical. Well, actually we did some medical, but mostly private pay, private insurance. And then had the bright idea to go for a Medicare certification in South Florida and found myself in need of some IT support because it was a nightmare back then. Purchased some software that I thought was gonna be really good. Went by the acronym PMS. So if that gives you any indication, it was not very good.

02:22

And because I was actually pretty good for his time, it just was an older time. Yeah. But you know, PNX, five, six, every release was more stressful than the one before. So I went to my brother and said he was, who was a software developer and begged him to come to South Florida from California to help me out of my technology nightmare. Yeah. I gave up being a billionaire in California and come down and help Linda with her home care business.

02:52

So we've worked together since the early 90s. Yes. Okay. So then you built a little software, Joe, I heard. Yeah. So what started out as just a little stopgap to help Linda get through an audit turned into a scheduler and Linda sold her business a year later. So I started in consulting with home care agencies, worked with some of the unsuccessful buyers of her company.

03:20

who were working with big hospital networks and hospital-based home care agencies, helped them select software. So I did that for a few years. But Linda and I always had this thing that we had started building. So I got it to a point where I thought we could sell it together. And she was my industry expert and kind of coached me as I was building it. And then she became my sales team and went out and introduced me to companies. And we started a company called Stratis and our first product was called Visitracks.

03:50

That was back in 1999 when we launched that. And we grew it to three or 400 companies using it. This was before web-based software, so it was very laborious installing and supporting these companies. So we kind of grew out of that and launched a web-based software called Syneto in 2007. And then when we grew that to...

04:17

hundreds of agencies across the country. We have Medicare and private duty clients, so we kind of had a good view of the whole spectrum. And by 2013, the market for what we had was pretty hot. So, and besides our kids were starting to go to college and it was a good idea to consider selling the company. So we did that in 2014. We sold Stratus to AOD software, AOD sold to Matrixcare, Matrixcare sold to ResMed.

04:47

Saneto is still around and owned by ResMed right now, technically. Although I think you see the MatrixCare logo more often. Yeah, got it. OK, so you've both been in home care for a long time. So if you are familiar with the names of Stratis or Visit Track or Saneto or MatrixCare and they're offering, or if you're a user of that and you never knew that the origins of that came from Joe and Linda, that now you know.

05:14

And we do have a brother and sister act here. So Joe is the big brother and Linda is the younger sister. And so first of all, it's great. Yeah, so it's great to have you here. And so you've done other things in home care. I know that for those of us who support folks in the Medicaid world, or for those of you who are listening that have Medicaid clients, you're very familiar with electronic visit verification. And I probably got to know Linda the best when she was working for a company

05:43

then known as TELUS, probably still known as TELUS, but most people, well, they were acquired by a company called NetSmart. And Linda was actually brought on to help TELUS work and get other software agencies to work with TELUS much better and was very successful in doing that. And we did that in Virginia and Kentucky in a couple of places. So thank you for that as well. That was a kicking and screaming. I think that was an interesting time back in Medicaid because...

06:13

the aggregators would go out and they wanted everybody to use their system. And they didn't, even though it was an open state, they didn't really want to integrate with all these vendors. And of course I was a vendor at the time when this all started. So I kind of decided to mobilize the forces and join up with people like Ken, my competitors, and to fight back and say, this is an open state, you need to let us all integrate. And then when...

06:41

When I sold, we were no longer working with Matrix Care, they approached me and I said, the only thing I'll do is help you integrate all of these other vendors because I wanted the agencies to be able to choose who they use. Okay, so you have, there you go. And thank you again for your service in that regard. And no, that was really, really, really good. And you really provided a difference to my company and other EVV vendors and things like that. So thank you for doing that. All right, but now,

07:12

We are helping with caregiver rewards. And so, you know, where did that idea come from? We were on a long road trip. You know, we're brother and sister. Our kids are real close. We have a close family. We were driving to a wedding in North Florida. It was like an 11-hour drive, and we were just brainstorming on the issues in home care. And this is, I'd retired from home care by this point. This was like 2019, pre-pandemic, but still very close to a lot of our customers and have lots of conversations with them.

07:41

about the things that are challenging for them. And of course, the caregiver retention and the caregiver recruiting problem is the crux of everybody's problem. And so Linda and I were just talking about how she handled that in her old days of home care. And she was telling me about a first choice with her company. I think she called it First Choice Bucks or something. So they actually gave out.

08:05

kind of monopoly money, fake money, and the caregivers would redeem it for things. And so we were just kind of kicking around that idea and how to make that better, with apps and portals and web-based everything now. And so we just started formulating an idea for that and how to make it a benefit for caregivers. Really something, because caregivers tend to move around, tend to work for multiple companies, sometimes at the same time. We know the...

08:34

the average turnover rate is very high. So we wanted to give them a benefit that they could take through them, with them throughout their career. So the number one thing we discussed when we were discussing this was that it had to be caregiver centric. It had to follow the caregiver. So if the caregiver moves from agency to agency or works for multiple agencies, they could collect points and rewards from all the agencies. So that's...

09:01

Basically, I came from. Yeah. So it's like, uh, you know, so like families, they sit around and you go on long family trips and you talk about, you know, Hey, what are the issues in home care? And how could we solve them? So I love that. Um, so before we go over to Linda to get her perspective on that, let me, let me kind of shift the question a little bit. Okay. So, I mean, why would we do like perks and, you know, points and that kind of thing? I mean, why don't, why don't you just pay people, give them a raise, you know, that sort of thing? Like, why did you come up with this idea of, you know, having like a point system and being able to redeem?

09:30

your points for other kinds of rewards other than straight compensation and what do you see as the benefits there? Well, I think the main reason, I mean, the idea of incentives to caregivers is not new and the idea of caregiver shortage is not new. Back in the, depending how large your company is, I was always short of caregivers because my company was growing. So I was always short of caregivers. So I was trying to find creative ways. And I would offer them...

09:57

a dollar an hour more to go to a difficult shift or, yeah, but it was a one-time thing, right? You're giving them this, it disappears into their paycheck with everything else, they use it to pay the bills, and then they forget about it. It's not like later they're going, oh, last time Linda did this for me, gave me a dollar an hour. So the idea behind points is pretty well documented in terms of these, we all have them. We all have coffee, cards, and I used to have

10:26

Panera bread cards and things like that where you're earning something. But it's so it's very well studied that giving somebody points where they can actually accumulate and save and work towards something that they value is a stronger reward than giving them a little bit of cash that goes right into their paycheck and right out to the electric company and the mortgage, right? So this is a way for them to have something of value for themselves. Yeah, no, I love that. And then, okay.

10:56

So we have this idea, we're gonna reward caregivers and we're gonna let them choose their rewards to some degree, so we're gonna give them points and let them trade them in for perks and things like that. Okay, so, but why do we need an app? Like why would you need an app for something like that as opposed to just the office, kind of handling it internally? I'll let you.

11:17

feel that joy and then I'll like we do we're brother and sister so he starts and then I interrupt so yeah just she'll just cut me off which is fine at any point in time so the app just makes it a lot easier for everybody right so the caregiver doesn't have to come into the office to pick up a reward card the app allows them to follow their points where the points came from they can see their their balance they can

11:43

redeem them immediately and go to a store and open up their phone and use the gift card. We also can give them messages and badges that persist. So if they earn a badge for doing a great job for a particular shift or a family sends a note into the office, the office can recognize that, give them a badge, write a little message on it, send it to the caregiver with some points, and now the caregiver has a permanent reminder of that.

12:12

recognition. It's not something that, you know, you go in the office, you grab a Starbucks card, thank you, you use it, you forget all about it, especially over the course of a career. So the app allows you to do that. And I'll let Linda talk about like the micro bonuses, which I think is a big piece of this. Yeah, I think it's a huge piece. First of all, a couple things. I again, I tried to administer a program like this and it's a pain. People lose their money, people lose their card. And then it

12:41

I use the card and I cut it up and I don't have any permanent record that you gave me this card. So that needs to be taken away from an administrative process for the agency and put in somebody else's hands. And that's one of the reasons to use that instead of the gift card thing. But the other thing is, first of all, I wouldn't value a Starbucks gift card. I don't drink coffee. So if I walk into an office and they say you did an awesome job, here's a $10 Starbucks gift card. I don't know that I'd feel rewarded because that's not what I...

13:11

value. They do sell tea there too, Linda. They do. True. And I do like tea, but I still would prefer something else. But the other thing is you can't give out a lot of those. If you're giving out $20, you may only have a limited budget for retention. So you want to spread that budget out and it's much more effective to give a tiny reward every week than to give one reward twice a year.

13:41

$2 Starbucks gift card, it's weird, but you could give them $2 worth of points. And now they see their bank growing. So instead of big rewards, very infrequently, lots of little, I like to call them micro rewards or micro bonuses, little tiny rewards throughout the year that are recorded. You send a message and even when they spend that card, they still see that, you know, list of all these times that they were awarded or recognized.

14:12

So that's why. So it's an ongoing reminder of the things and the times they were recognized. Your appreciation, right. Yeah, an opportunity to see it more often. And yeah, so that's a lot of value to the app. And then I think, Joe, you mentioned that somebody does move agencies to their points and perks go with them. Yep, everything follows them. They don't have to shut down their account or cash out their points. It just follows them. And if the agency they move to...

14:39

adopts the same rewards program, then they can just keep adding to their balance and see all their badges from all the agencies they've worked for over the course of their career. So it really does follow them and allows them to build a little bit of a resume almost so that they can show people and brag about the recognition they're getting. Yeah, I love that. Okay. So let me ask this. I mean, I guess there's like two sides of the same coin as I asked this question, but the first side of the coin is what are the types of things that

15:08

agencies are rewarding their care providers for. And then the second thing is like, you know, what are they using? Like, you know, how are they cashing in their points? And, you know, you could take any aspect of it and I'll let you siblings fight it out as we've seen here. You know, figure out. I'm sorry. She's part of that. That's her area of expertise. Yeah. And I don't think it's changed in the 30 years I've been in home care. You're gonna reward them for, you know, going above and beyond for.

15:37

Saving the day, these are the types of things that badges that we set up that they can award, going in, accepting a shift at the last minute, representing your company's core values, right? Going, just going the extra mile for something. So any of the things that you would normally want to recognize people for, but you don't have that system in place. I remember back in the old days writing handwritten cards, my gosh, that took putting the stamp on it, putting it in the mailbox, right?

16:07

And obviously it's antiquated, but it was effective. So taking that same principle and saying every time they do something that's, you know, they went to a client that was so difficult and they went and I didn't get a call afterwards complaining from the client. That's a miracle, right? I want to give them some kind of recognition for that. So those are the simple things. And, and those are kind of the, um, non the discretionary things. You decide when you want to do that, but you can also use the system to reward for, um,

16:36

I would call it like consistency with you. So if you're having trouble with weekend shifts and you want to reward somebody for doing so many shifts or they do so many shifts for you in the month, right? Cause you want to encourage them to work for you rather than other competitors, right? We know they work for multiple companies. So if the shift is being offered, you want them to accept your shift over somebody else's. So there's lots of different ways that you can reward them.

17:05

And it really depends on your agency's needs, which is why I think this tool is so effective, because it allows you to be as flexible as you need to be. You don't have to create, it's not these predefined all set of behaviors that they have to follow to get rewarded. You can decide what those are. Right. You can add to that. Well, the system allows you to have both manual and automatic badges. So you can design the program any way you want to. And we've added a lot of gamification to it as well.

17:33

Not a lot, but some gamification. So one of the things we did when EVV was first introduced and some of our clients were trying to get their caregivers to clock in and clock out, we introduced something called 2K for care, $2,000 for care. This is in our prior product. This is in the Saneto product, right? So every month we do a raffle and every time you clock in and clock out, you got a raffle ticket and that entered you into the monthly raffle to win $1,000. So.

18:00

So once a month we made one caregiver very happy with a thousand dollar reward. And that was great. Our clients loved it. They thought it helped them roll out the product easier, got the caregivers excited. Now the caregivers had to take our word who the winner was. There was no way to see that. And we did it all legit, but in the Perks for Care product, we've kind of taken that idea. And so for every hundred points that an agency rewards a caregiver, we give the caregiver a raffle ticket.

18:30

And they can see the raffle ticket in the app and they can see how many they have for the month and they can see if they're working on one because you need a hundred points. So if they only got 20 points, they need 80 more to get that last raffle ticket and they can see that. They can see the upcoming raffles that are in the app and they can see the winners. They can just see a picture and the first name of the caregiver. They don't get to see what agency or where they came from. But it adds- And that's how they can connect all of their companies. That's all- Yeah.

19:00

That's not just for one company, all the companies in the aggregate. Right. So Parks for Care covers the cost of the rewards for those rewards. And it's, you know, we spread it across all the agencies. So, you know, five, 10% of our profits is going right into the rewards. Okay. Yeah, that's, that's very cool. And, uh, and then, you know, Jill, you said there's kind of

19:24

manual rewards, right? Oh my gosh, this person took the shift at the last minute. I was gonna have to leave my family at the movie theater and go take the shift myself. So I've given points to that person for that situation. But you also mentioned like kind of automated situations. And I guess I can understand like when you had Seneto or whatever people use, WellSky or that kind of thing. Okay, hey, you've hit, like you've delivered your first 250 hours of care. You're gonna get some points or 500 hours. But is...

19:54

Is this kind of connected to, like, can it take feeds from, you know, kind of what that agency management software is at this point? Or is that something that's planned? Or how does that work for the automated rewards? We do have APIs and we are talking to vendors about connecting. Right now, it's pretty easy to do a manual import. We have a large customer in California that's importing their own file.

20:22

of points that they've awarded based on the percentage of EVV that they get done for the week. So if they're 100% compliant on EVV for the week, they get so many points. If they're 75%, 50%, they get a lower amount. So they just build that Excel file and import that into our system and it awards all the points. They got it. We would like to have this connected to the software vendor. So within the scheduling component of the AMS, they could just click a button and award a badge to the carrier.

20:52

We do have a whole QA, Katelyn. No, I was gonna say coming from a software vendor cause we were software vendors, it's not always a software vendor's priority to do integration with other products because they typically have such a big backlog. They typically are dealing with changes to EVV requirements, right? They're constantly changing. So if a software vendor

21:21

is open to that, we are totally equipped for that. But because we know that they might say, yeah, we'll do that, but it takes six months to do that, we made sure that it was very simple, that almost every agency management system out there can export the data that we need, which is basically very minimal, and then simply click import that file into a Perks for Care admin portal to get those points in.

21:46

Yeah, that's perfect. And Joe mentioned something called API. So that's kind of the way that computer programs, you know, talk to one another. It's the way that they get your Google maps directions into your software and things like that. And that does usually take some time for software development. But yeah, I think that having come up with a, an ability. So if somebody could get that information into, you know, like downloaded into Excel or something like that, uh, and just kind of have a list and say, yeah, you know, these are the people who hit these.

22:14

milestones based on their compliance, their number of hours of service, blah, blah, blah. You have a way that you could import that so they don't have to key it all into the system. Yeah, fantastic. All right. Okay. So that was the side A of why are people giving rewards, but then side B is what kind of rewards, what can I cast my points in for? Well, right now there's 25 or so gift cards that the caregiver can choose from. All the main

22:44

brands they're used to seeing. There is a way for them to go beyond that. There's another card that they can pick which gives them access to 500 more cards. We haven't seen many people do that. So most of the people who are redeeming points right now are picking from our 25 cards. And they're all the big names, Starbucks, Burger King, Chipotle, you know. Chipotle's popular. Yeah, all the main brands. Walmart.

23:13

Yeah, so Amazon. Amazon's a popular one. Amazon, and contrary to Linda's preference, Starbucks is also very popular. For all the Starbucks fans out there, I apologize for my sister's unappreciation. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. We should have some coffee. Yeah, and just another personal story, nothing to do with home care, but at some point, like my...

23:39

you know, kids graduated from college in our family or whatever, and they got these, you know, these cards with like gift cards in them and all that kind of thing. And then like two years later, my wife and I find these, you know, cards with gift cards in them, you know, just sitting in, you know, in like some pile in our kids bedroom. And of course, our kids have abandoned us and moved away and all that kind of thing. And, you know, those gift cards lose their values. And I think somebody, one of the two you mentioned that they could actually say, Hey, I want to use my points now. And then is there some way they could

24:07

you know, see their card, like their actual gift card in the app or, you know, so they don't lose track of those. Absolutely. Yeah. So, um, I, I, I gave the app to a couple of 17 year olds that I mentor. They're actually kid caregivers. And so I send them badges and points every once in a while. And they, they just love it. I mean, they're only 17, but they, you know, as soon as they get the points, they want to go redeem them. So, um, once a month I get together with them and.

24:36

they wanted to go right to Walmart. Because, yeah, and it was fun watching them open up their email, click on the gift card, and then show it at the cash register, and then just check out with what they wanted to get. So yeah, right within, so when you pick a gift card and you redeem points for it, you're going to get an email within a minute or two or a couple minutes that has a link. You open it up, and each company is different. So...

25:02

Amazon's a little different than Starbucks, but they all have their gift card. When you open the email, you'll see the barcode or you'll see something there to click and you can redeem it right at the register. Yeah, beautiful. Or you can add it to your Amazon account. If you have an account and you just want to add the monies there. Yeah, I love it. Okay. So I think, you know, obviously on home care heroes and day service stars, we're not really about, you know, specific.

25:29

you know, like product endorsements or anything like that. But we're all about really educating. So I think so far we've really covered, you know, however they're gonna do it. I mean, they wanna have, you know, a way of rewarding people. They wanna reward them differently. They wanna, you know, we've given them ideas of what to reward people for, how to reward them, you know, kind of the idea of rewarding them more frequently and letting them choose what reward they get, you know, for the non-copy drinkers out there and all those types of things. So those are a lot of really great ideas, but.

25:57

you know, as we're, we're kind of getting a little bit, uh, you know, further along here. I mean, so you guys do have a specific product and it's called perks for care. And I guess we'll do our first shout out that the, you could learn more about this particular product that perks P E R K S the number four and then care.com. So perks number four care. That com and, uh, that kind of thing. But I guess, um, you know, I, I mean, I'm not really.

26:25

I guess, I mean, what was important to you in putting this together? I think you probably covered a lot of those things, but yeah, what was important to you in kind of doing this in a way that you really felt like it hit those hot buttons that either came up in your experience as a care coordinator, as a scheduler, or in that now historic drive across the country as you're brainstorming the app and all that kind of thing. What were some of the things that you said, hey, if we're gonna do this right, this is what we should really put in it?

26:54

But I think the first thing that was important to us, and it's not just like what we put in the app, but the first thing that was important to us is that we've already done our time in the, the hit heavy private equity-owned type company once we were bought. This is a passion project for us. This is like a way to look at the industry and do something that is just more meaningful to us and to what we think to the caregivers. So,

27:24

It really is a kind of a love product, not necessarily we're in this for, you know. A bigger boat. Yeah, a bigger boat. So Joe can be an actor. Yeah, the margins are very, very narrow in this. The cost is very low. And that was also very important to us that we kept the price very low. We don't have care, per caregiver fees per month. You sign up. If you use it, you pay a small percentage of the reward.

27:54

Yeah, it's very simple. So we want everybody to be able to say they're part of this program. Even if you only have a very small budget, maybe you're a very small company just starting out and you have a small, I mean, everybody should have a budget for retention, right? We all spend so much money on recruiting, but we forget to spend money on retention. So everybody should have some funds allocated to retention, but it could be very small. So we wanted to make sure that a company or an agency

28:23

regardless of their budget, could implement this tool. It's not only for the people that want to spend a lot of money. If you only have $500 for the year to spend on caregiver rewards, that's fine. And we want them to be able to spread it out. So we want every, that was an important thing. Everybody can participate. Yeah, perfect. Okay, and then, so yeah, so I think what you've kind of shared here is that the way that you are, you know, kind of,

28:48

like how you sell the app or whatever here is, you know, you basically say, okay, you know, I mean, you decide, you know, you're the one who's giving out the rewards, you're deciding how many points people are getting, and you're, you know, paying, you're putting the money in. So if you're putting money in for if cards and, you know, you have a budget of hundreds or whatever it is, you put that in and then I guess what I'm reading between the lines is you just like, you know, pay a little bit extra, right? So it's like, all right, to be able to give out.

29:16

you know, like a thousand dollars worth of gift cards you pay, you know, a little bit more than that. And that's how you guys, you know, make a couple of pennies on the way here. Exactly. That's exactly right. Yeah. That's a really smart idea instead of, yeah, cause I think, um, it's, you know, I, I mean, I, I won't even talk about this space, but, you know, I, I know that in the realm of, for example, caregiver training programs, you know, there's some of those companies are like, well, you know, like

29:43

you have to pay us a certain amount per caregiver per month. And it's like, wait a second, this person had all this onboarding training and then they're good for a year, and then they take like one course, and they're like, oh no, like everything you're given your agency kind of is paying a monthly recurring fee. I mean, that could get to be a pretty big bill for like one month when three people renewed their CPR training or something like that. So I think you've really kind of thought through a way, it's like, you kind of set your budget for awards.

30:09

And by paying a little bit extra, you get the app, you get the badges, you get the rewards, you get the like, you know, these guys are kicking back into the raffles and, you know, and all that kind of thing. So I think there's a lot of great stuff to it. All right, so I guess we're kind of getting into the home stretch here. So now we understand how people pay for it and all those nice things. And, you know, and I kind of mentioned that people can learn more by going to perksforcare.com.

30:38

and that sort of thing. But yeah, I guess, Joe and Linda, how would you also recommend that people get to learn more, get to know more about you or what you're doing out there?

30:49

Well, right on our website, you can request a demo and we're a small company. So Linda or I will be doing the demo for you. So, uh, it's a great way for us to connect back with some old friends. And actually what our first big customer, our first customer, uh, saw our website and was interested in connected with us. And, you know, I took the call and did a demo and they didn't realize who I was until I told them, Hey, you guys have been using.

31:19

Sonoto and Visit Tracks for 20 years. So that kind of locked down the deal. I didn't have to sell much after that, but we think the app sells itself because it is really inexpensive. We're not trying to make a ton of money here. We're just trying to bring more caregivers into an industry that desperately needs them, make caregivers feel valued, give them a way to remember all of their little successes as they move from client to client. And really the bottom line is just

31:48

elevate the caregivers. I hear a lot of talk about caregiver first and your caregivers have to be first now because it's much easier to find clients than it is caregivers. So we just thought this would be one tool to help agencies do that. It's not gonna solve the problem. Linda keeps telling me it's not gonna solve the problem but it is another tool in the quiver. Yeah, I mean, there's some...

32:18

foundational, some foundational things you have to have in order to retain your caregivers that aren't even related to money. You have to be, the person who talks to them every day has to be respectful. They have to be kind to them. You have to connect with them, right? Those are foundational. If you don't have those things, it doesn't matter what this rewards program is. It's not going to retain your caregivers. But this is when you have those foundational things.

32:46

this is just one more tool to give that scheduler to build that relationship, to keep that relationship, to communicate with them and to make them feel like they're part of the team. There we go. I love it. So those are really great thoughts. Yeah, it's not a silver bullet. It's not a one-stop shopping and this is the only thing you need to do to retain your caregivers, but I think it is something that could help a lot. And I'll put it out to the universe here. We're gonna kind of share this with the Ankota user- base and say, hey, we really...

33:14

are, we're excited about this product and we think that, you know, it's really, it's really the best one for you guys to take a look at and we'll be, you know, doing that down the road as well. Okay. So with that, I guess we'll, I will wrap up for today. Thank you so much for your, your time and your contributions here. I think people are really going to enjoy this and we look forward to talking to you guys soon. Have a great day. Take care. Bye bye.

33:41

Bye-bye. Thanks for joining us today on the Home Care Heroes and Day Service Stars podcast, produced by Ankota. You can listen to back episodes by visiting 4HomeCareHeroes.com That's the number four, then the words HomeCareHeroes.com.