The Summer Intern Experience

There’s an assumption that summer internship programs are primarily for the benefit of the students who participate, but what about amazing contributions they make to the organizations they’re working for? 
We recently sat down for a discussion with four of BWBR’s 2022 summer interns to learn more about their experiences and show some appreciation for everything they’ve done.

Hosted by: 
Jarett Anderson - BWBR - Project Manager

Guests:
Hasnaa Elaraby - BWBR - Interior Design Student Intern
Lauren Burton - BWBR - Architectural Student Intern
Cail Tomlin - BWBR - Architectural Student Intern
Zeekra Baset Nadi - BWBR - Student Architectural Designer

Music provided by Artlist.io
Siberian Summer by Sunny Fruit
DuDa by Ian Post

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Transcript

Matthew Gerstner  00:10

This is Side of Design from BWBR a podcast discussing all aspects of design with knowledge leaders from every part of the industry.

Jarett Anderson  00:19

Hello, and welcome to Side of Design from BWBR. I'm Jarett Anderson, project manager and architect, and your host for this episode. On this episode, we'll be talking with some BWBR student interns. We have an amazing group this year. And have gotten so much from their amazing energy and fresh perspectives, as well as huge contributions that they've made to our office and our culture and our work. While mentoring is a big part of who we are at BWBR. We certainly love sharing our knowledge with the next generation. With that said, thank you all for joining us. And let's dig in. Let's start by going around the table here and hearing a little bit more about each one of you. Hasnaa, would you like to go first?

Hasnaa Elaraby  01:00

Sure. Hi, everyone. My name is Hasnaa. I go to school at the U of M, majoring in interior design. And next fall, I will be senior in the interior design program. I'm originally from Egypt. So I came here only for college about four years ago. And my position at BWBR is the summer interior design intern.

Jarett Anderson  01:25

Nice. Go Gophers fellow gopher right here. Who would like to go next? Lauren, do you want to go next?

Lauren Burton  01:32

Sure, Yeah. My name is Lauren Burton. I currently attend the University of Minnesota, I am pursuing a Master of Architecture there. And so I have my undergraduate degree in interior design that was received at South Dakota State University. So I always like to introduce myself by saying horns down. Because there's a lot of NDSU students and workers here. So yeah, I am continued on getting my education at the University of Minnesota. And so I have two more years left until I graduate with a Master of Architecture. And I am currently the architectural student intern with BWBR. And so I kind of have a unique perspective, I was able to start interning with BWBR two years ago as the student interior design intern and then just kind of shuffled into a different role with architecture as I kind of figured out a different course that I wanted to take. And so I've been able to like have a full rounded experience, which I have super enjoyed and loved both roles, and they both have ups and downs and whatnot. So yeah, that's a little bit about me.

Jarett Anderson  02:38

Awesome. So South Dakota. 

Lauren Burton  02:40

Yes. 

Jarett Anderson  02:41

Now now GD two right. 

Lauren Burton  02:44

Oh, my goodness, you know, yeah yeah, 

Jarett Anderson  02:46

Yes. I remember. I remember my time as a GD two. It was it was great. I happen to be in the same class as Federico. And 

Lauren Burton  02:55

They're coming. 

Jarett Anderson  02:56

Yeah, they're coming over. That's really exciting news. And they were at South Dakota, basically setting up that program. Yeah, it's great news for the U of M that they're coming over. And there's a few other new professors over at the U too which is really fantastic. So I'm, I'm excited to hear later on how that process went.

Jarett Anderson  03:19

Yeah. 

Lauren Burton  03:19

Oh, my goodness. So that's so funny, Jessica; So when I was in undergrad at South Dakota State, I had Jessica Garcia Fritz a like history professor. 

Lauren Burton  03:29

And I was just like, young, naive, sophomore, and I did get called out in her class for talking in lecture. And so I was like mortified to apply to South Dakota State for like a Master of Architecture because she was like her and her husband had started this program. And I was like, she hates me. She called me out. And I like went up and apologized after class and everything. And then I so that's like, one of the main reasons I didn't apply at SDSU is because I was like, I can't she remembers me. And now she's coming to the U of M. I emailed her after she, like, had her working interview, and she was in my studio, and I emailed her and I was like, um, I just want to let you know, I still have a lot of giggles, I have a lot of energy, but I know how to control them now. And we like had this full circle moment. It was so funny.

Jarett Anderson  04:15

That's fantastic. Well, and that's one of the things about this field is you run into people, you know, it's a small club, which is both good and bad. In some ways, it's a good thing, because it's that network, and then something that's a bad thing, because that network can be insular in some ways. And places like the U, places like South Dakota, number of programs that are rising up, I think there's more of this thought about reaching out, making sure that we're not kind of this insular sort of culture that we're out there participating in our communities and things like that. And, you know, grad school is such a great time to explore. So I'm very excited for you to be going back there. That's fantastic. That said, Who wants to go next?

Cail Tomlin  04:59

I'll go next. Hi everybody. My name's Cail Tomlin. I am a fourth year student at Dunwoody College of Technology. So I have one year left in the five year bachelor's, I'll then be moving into a one year master's at the U of M, which is something that is relatively new as a collaboration between Dunwoody and you will also be pursuing licensure a little sooner than most as a part of the IPAL program. So I'm able to take exams, before hours. And before schooling is done. I have a little bit of a later start my career than most, I chose to spend about a decade in the trades alongside family and friends, before deciding what I really wanted to lock down into. And I'm glad I chose what I did, because being even an architectural student intern here at BWBR, it's been great.

Jarett Anderson  05:55

That's fantastic. Your background will suit you well, right as you kind of go forward. I think no matter what you end up drawing in this field, you end up drawing from your experience a little bit. And then you kind of combine that with your team's experience and with the lived experience of the people that you're working with. And you're gonna bring a unique perspective from being in the trades and there'll likely be a healthy tension there about what you think is possible and what things can be pushed. What envelopes can be pushed as you kind of go forward. If you're over at Dunwoody, did you have James Wheeler, for anything over there.

Cail Tomlin  06:29

Yep, I had him last year for landscape class. A seminar.

Jarett Anderson  06:34

I was an undergrad way back in my day with James and he's a he's  a heck of a guy. He was down at, well, he was in Biloxi for a while doing things down there working with the community, that kind of a thing. And he found his passion a little bit differently than us too. So I don't think that there is any one path to licensure. I love that ... I think if the Dunwoody track would have been there, I would have really wanted to explore that and figure out how that was possible. How big was your was your cohort class?

Cail Tomlin  06:51

The first year of the two year degree and that was with 44 people. That's what we started with. And our current in person, class count last semester was 16 and ended at 15. So we're now down to 15 moving into year four.

Jarett Anderson  07:12

And who knows where the other folks went, if they transferred ...

Cail Tomlin  07:28

There's some that are doing completely distance learning, which is kind of a new thing. As far as that goes with the architecture school. So yeah, I think it was about 10 people last semester, if I remember correctly, doing that.

Jarett Anderson  07:45

Awesome. Great. And that leaves you, one more person.

Zeekra Baset Nadi  07:48

Hi, everyone, I'm Zeekra. I'm doing my masters of healthcare design at Kent State University in Ohio. And I'm gonna be starting my last year. So this is a two year master's degree program. Apart from that, I have my bachelor in architecture from American International University in Bangladesh. So that's where I'm originally from and I came here in the US in the last year. So yeah. So I graduated from my undergrad in 2017. Then after that, I worked as an associate architect for three years, and then decided to go for my higher studies. So here I am right now working at BWBR as student architectural designer.

Jarett Anderson  08:33

Well, we're glad you chose to spend your time with us this summer. And how has the experience been for you this past summer?

Zeekra Baset Nadi  08:41

Yeah, I was a little bit skeptical at first, like I have to, flew through like 1000 miles to be here. And I was like, oh, what I'm gonna do I don't know anyone in the whole state. And I can honestly say that this has been a great summer that I have. Like the all the experience. I'm gathering from the firm and meeting with people, socializing with other interns and other people in the office. It's been great.

Jarett Anderson  09:08

Nice is that something that surprised you? Did that align with your expectations going in?

Zeekra Baset Nadi  09:14

Yeah, I mean, I thought it's gonna be not that. Like, I feel like it's very, very flexible about works and everything. And everybody's willing to help. Like, I could easily ask anyone for anything. And this is kind of a little confusing, because I was a little bit intimidated at first first, like when I started. Now I feel more comfortable about talking to people and maybe asking for help or anything and yeah, this is kind of surprising.

Jarett Anderson  09:45

Being being comfortable, are you suggesting that it's being comfortable not knowing, right, not ... in asking that question kind of raising your hand saying ... yeah, that's one way that we grow right is by first being honest and saying I don't know, and then asking a question, hopefully then that culture around you accepts that, and then helps you grow. And ideally, we're each helping each other grow as we move through our careers. What skills have you been able to also develop and kind of broaden here be BWBR,

Zeekra Baset Nadi  10:21

I'm focusing on healthcare design. And I'm also working with one of the principals here who is also focusing on healthcare design. He is a medical planner, Scott Holmes. So he's been a great mentor so far. I've been learning to utilizing how the planning works in the practice in the field, actually. Like I've been doing it in my school, like it's an imaginary side, you have to design an imaginary healthcare facility and thinking about all the rules and regulation and thinking about the user group. But here, I am actually learning like how to address the situation, like more practically, like, it's not about all the architecture building or maybe all about the aesthetic, it's also about the functionality, how it can work, really work the space. So these kind of things like mentoring and, and really know like, what is going on in the practice. That's, that's really eye opening. And also in terms of some kind of softer skills and everything. So we basically use Revit and everything in our school, but working in Autodesk 360. It's a kind of new experience, and we had a like intense training going on when we first joined so that that's a good thing. I appreciate that. Like, I didn't know what how I'm gonna work or how it's gonna, things gonna work. So that's a good thing that this process, at least teach me some of the thing like how the work, how the firm works, how we can maintain the standards of working.

Jarett Anderson  11:50

Nice and Hasnaa. How's the internship experience been for you?

Hasnaa Elaraby  11:54

Yeah, so so far, the experience has been very, very positive. For me, there's always something new to learn every day, and they keep us very busy. And everyone is willing to help everyone is willing to support everyone was welcoming the first couple of weeks. So I think so far, the experience has been very beneficial for me. I'm glad that I was able to do work and most of the design process that I wanted to focus on, like the CDs, renderings, and stuff that I really want to improve and learn professionally. So I'm glad that I had these opportunities. And I'm, I'm still learning I'm still growing everyday, which I really appreciate.

Jarett Anderson  12:31

Nice. So on the, on the back end, then in some ways, like the nuts and bolts of it, but also the rendering side. And the imagery, the feeling all the kind of intangibles too. 

Hasnaa Elaraby  12:42

Yes, the first or maybe second week, when I started my first project, they asked me what would you like to start with? What is your strength? What would you like to, you know, begin working at BWBR with so I was like, I like renderings. I like anything 3d related. So if you can put me on that, that'd be awesome. And they did. I joined the CHS project right away. And they had a lot of renderings that they wanted to help with. So I helped with the renderings and has been a very great experience.

Jarett Anderson  13:12

Nice. 

Hasnaa Elaraby  13:13

Yeah. 

Jarett Anderson  13:13

What surprised you the most about your time?

Hasnaa Elaraby  13:16

I think the orientation week surprised me the most because it was very well planned out. I wasn't expecting a whole week for orientation I expected like a day or two. But there was a lot to learn during the first week. I thought I would feel super overwhelmed. But I didn't. There's always someone to reach out to and ask questions. If you want to ask questions about Bluebeam, there's someone to reach out to. If you want to ask something about, I don't Landmark Learning Sessions or anything related to Revit, there's always like specified people for everything. So it's easy to get answers and not get very overwhelmed. And the first week I got connected with my supervisor, with my mentor, my social mentor all of them check in with me regularly every week to see how I'm doing. If there's any over load work projects. Do I need more like less hours? I need more hours to add? So I think yeah, the process has been very well planned out and not very overwhelming.

Jarett Anderson  14:17

Awesome. And I think you kind of nailed it there to being surprised that the onboarding wasn't just a meeting, right? It wasn't like the printers over there and see you later kind of a thing. It's ...

Hasnaa Elaraby  14:29

Yeah. 

Jarett Anderson  14:30

Onboarding isn't just a meeting. It's a big long process and making you feel comfortable, valued, welcome, part of the team. So you can all build that psychological safety that lets you be vulnerable, lets you raise your hand to say I don't know, and that kind of thing. That's really an important thing. 

Jarett Anderson  14:48

Did all of you get to attend the Landmark Learning Sessions that we that we do? What did you think of those? Was there a favorite one? So the landmark learning sessions right? They are kind of bi-weekly thing that we put on. Usually, if you're someone new to the office, we would want you to attend a certain amount of those landmark learning sessions. And you know, the topics really kind of vary, right? They vary from something interiors wise, something on the digital side, something on the design side. Maybe it's a lesson learned in CA in the field that you see. So it's a way for us to share knowledge all the way across and across multiple shades of experience, if you will, through the office. But did you all have a favorite Landmark Learning Session?

Cail Tomlin  15:33

I don't know that I had a favorite. But I know I really enjoyed them as a whole. So I kind of started differently than most of the interns this summer. I actually started back in April, and did part time, up until the school semester was over. So while I was only putting in 10 to 12 hours a week, I had a little bit more flexibility with that, where if I had some time, I'd sit down and just go watch a Learning Session. 

Jarett Anderson  16:05

Right.

Cail Tomlin  16:05

If I had an hour to, to put towards it. And you know, by the time I started full time, I had already watched probably a quarter of what's been recorded.

Jarett Anderson  16:15

Right? Yeah, we record each one of them. And yeah, right. They're all on on our intranet site and you can go back and reference those. Absolutely. So ...

Lauren Burton  16:24

Oops sorry. I was gonna say that's kind of how I am like I, I've used the Landmark Learning Sessions to like, fill the voids at what I'm doing in real life. So if I was, on my last project, I was kind of given the overarching general cleanup for Interior Elevation sheets. So I was like, Oh, I wonder if there's a Landmark Learning Session. And then I would like go Filter, find one that applied to what I was doing, and then go from there. Like if I was sitting in on a structural meeting, which structural engineers are just a mind at their own. And so I was like, not comprehending anything. And then I went back and found a Landmark Learning from structural engineers. And I was like, oh, okay, like, I can understand your processes now. So they, they kind of have helped me fill the gaps in my learning, personally, and like what I want to get from them, then I can go searching for this information. Kind of like Cail. I've just used it to, to do what I what I need them to do, instead of just listening to them, because they're recorded, I've tried to put a purpose behind them.

Jarett Anderson  17:31

Right. From where you sit, then Lauren, how is the past few months, I guess, then been for you at BWBR a little bit different. But how was your experience?

Lauren Burton  17:40

Yeah, a little a little bit different. It's different than, it's also the first summer that I've been able to be in the office a little bit more and actually be hands on and engage with people and other interns, and just the culture and the experiences as a whole. And so while it feels like it's my third summer working with BWBR, it's really my first summer that I've been able to, like actually throw myself into my work and understand the people and the process and kind of fall in love with it in a completely different way than I have in the past two years. And so I would say the past couple of months working here, it's been like everything this past year for me with like moving and starting grad school, it's a completely different learning curve. And so just to like, learn how to work with a mentor that like actually wants to help you and build up your skills and like give you hands on knowledge that has helped them get to where they are, that's been probably the highlight of my past couple months. It's also just it's a it's a completely different way of working when you're at home versus when you're in the office, like coming from a perspective of like just getting ready every day is horrible, or like just, it takes so much longer to like get up mentally prepare to like talk to people in person, have conversation, engage, like bump into people at the printer or the coffee machine or like actually to have to put on I don't want to say a persona, but to put on a welcoming face that just takes a little bit extra effort than it does at home. And so the past kind of several months has been a learning curve in really good aspects, but also really draining aspects because it's just like learning to people, learning to do this thing again.

Jarett Anderson  19:35

I would wager, I would wager that there's plenty of the country that's going through exactly what you're talking about right now where it's like, oh, no, you know ..

Lauren Burton  19:45

I have to be on today. Yeah.

Jarett Anderson  19:50

You know, that's not to say that you're not on when you're in your in your Zoom square, right? Like, there's times where you can turn that on little bit too. But I think that there is that, and you know, also, depending upon if you're more introverted or extroverted or you know where you are in that, the in office environment might be one thing to you versus the Zoom environment at home, or what things you have going on at home versus what things you can kind of leave and then, you know, take to the office in some ways. So is that whole in office back to the office, because you're doing a hybrid approach here a little bit where you're, which is one thing, you all got to choose how you would work, right? No one said, you have to come into the office, no one said, you have to stay home. So did you all choose the hybrid approach, in this case, where it was a couple of days in the office and a couple days at home?

Zeekra Baset Nadi  20:47

For me I'm in the office, like five days a week, because as for me, I thought like, if I am here, for only for a short period of time, like for only for the summer, I better utilize this as a means of creating some networking and socializing as much as I can. So that's why I'm always in the office, and I try to be in the office. And it's not that all the people are here. But still I choose to come it's a shift of environment, like from home environment to the office environment, it makes you, for personally, for me, it's mixed. I mean, the enthusiasm to doing the work is kind of different when I'm in the office, it's a little different. I prefer that when I'm in the office, and that's why then I'm all day in the office.

Jarett Anderson  21:37

It's nice, but you got to pick that on your own right? You just said this is and people were like, go for it.

Zeekra Baset Nadi  21:44

Yeah, that's that's what I'm saying, like the work environment and choosing a time between hybrid and being a resident in the St. Paul office. Yeah, that flexibility is pretty, pretty amazing.

Hasnaa Elaraby  21:58

Yeah, I think, I think for me, it was a little different, because part of my responsibility here is to do work at the interiors library. So I was asked to be at least hybrid, but not like fully a resident or come to the office all week. So I learned that during the interview process, that I should be at least hybrid for my time here in the summer. But they're also flexible with what times I'm here and what times I'm not here. And if there is a week that was too busy with like other stuff or other like tasks I'm doing that would be very flexible with me not to attend during that week, and maybe make it up next week or the weeks after whenever I feel comfortable. So flexibility also was a part of my time here, even though I was told to be hybrid,

Jarett Anderson  22:43

Right. Yeah. So Cail, what have you been doing? Have you been hybrid? Or have you been in the office? What have you've been?

Cail Tomlin  22:49

I started off as hybrid in April. But once the semester ended, driving an hour to and from work didn't become as appetizing because my school is only you know, 10-15 minutes away from the office. So when I'm going to school, it's a lot easier to drive 15 minutes to the office than it is 30 to 45 minutes back home to start working. So it made a lot more sense for me to be hybrid, when that was the case. But once that semester ended, it's been really nice, having that extra time in the day, especially as a parent, and the only morning person in the house, who gets up with my son. So it's been nice, not having to, like Lauren was saying, think about getting ready. And you know, oh, I have to think about the shoes that I'm going to wear today. Like, is this gonna match my pants and my shirt?

Jarett Anderson  23:44

If you're me it's do my pants fit?

Cail Tomlin  23:48

And when you're working remote, it's a lot less of that social anxiety. Despite, you know, I feel like I talk to more people in the company when I'm working remote than I do when I'm in the office. Because you know, when you're in the office, you see people working and I don't want to go up and bother somebody, even though I know that they wouldn't have a problem with it.

Lauren Burton  24:09

That's where we disagree. That's where I'm like, if I look at my schedule, and I'm like, Lauren, heads down. Work needs to get done, deadline, pencils down Friday. I'm like we are at home Thursday, Friday, because I see these people in the office and I am like making up for two years of lost time in the office. And I'm like, good morning, how are you? What are we doing? What are you drinking? Like, let's go for a walk. Let's do the farmers market. Like it's every excuse to like, not be at my desk when I'm in the office. So I hate how there's like two ... you go into the office to avoid that interaction. And I go into the office for that interaction. But Oh, that's funny.

Cail Tomlin  24:53

That's why we sit on on different sides of the office.

Lauren Burton  24:58

That's why I always come to you And I'm like, do do do, what are you doing?

Jarett Anderson  25:03

And we can still connect, you know, here on Zoom. I think there is something that kind of democratizes the conversation at times when we are individual squares, because you can interject or maybe you feel like you can interject more because that personal side of things isn't, you know, the physical nature of that necessarily isn't there. And that can go the other way, too. If you have people that do talk too much in the Zoom Room, and they dominate the conversation, like I'm doing right now. But I like that there's this difference between what you're saying Lauren and what you're saying, Cail, but has has both experiences worked for you this summer? And how would you? Would you do anything different? Would you recommend that we do anything different?

Cail Tomlin  25:47

I think that this method of working has been fantastic. And I've seen and heard from others, that it's, it's been a great experience, you know, some people who are just starting this last year, who are completely remote, like different states even, wouldn't have this opportunity anywhere else. 

Jarett Anderson  26:06

Right.

Lauren Burton  26:06

I think it's interesting, like we've heard kind of in the past couple of weeks and months is like we entered this next quarter of the year, like, as a company, we're really starting to try and thrive. And I think thriving as a hybrid environment is giving that choice and even the fact like that they give the interns choice, you can go into the office, or you don't have to go into the office, I think that's just another layer that makes me choose to do good work. And makes me choose to continue like wanting to show up and be a face for BWBR and like be someone that is fully integrated into what they do and understands the importance and the repercussions of what they're doing. Because it's kind of like when you give the interns choice, that's for lack of better words, you could say like, we are not the principals, we are not the directors, we are not the ones making the decisions. And we are here to gain experience and learn from them. But that's also saying like they can learn from us. And so bringing in this kind of new energy, I think it's very interesting, the way BWBR is approached it is like you can still take our energy being hybrid or being distance or just showing up to these cultural events. But it's like the fact that they are giving that choice to the interns, I think says a lot more about the company than it does a lot of other internship experiences.

Jarett Anderson  27:28

Awesome. That's yeah, that's great. And you all are the future, right? So we obviously, we obviously want to learn from you. I'm always, you know, if you're in this profession for a while, or any profession, you can get a little bit jaded at times in the, right. But what's wonderful is being with younger talent, folks that are just getting into it and figuring out how to support them that does really energize you, that's part of the mentoring process. When you do the mentoring, you get that energy back, you get what you put in. Right. And yeah, I think the hybrid and what we do is great. I think for me, and I'll just share this with you all, is this is the first time that we've all got a chance to meet. And that's because we're doing a podcast, which is great. And I have a little bit remorse, because I wasn't in the office enough to meet each one of you, right and have that conversation and have that quick connect. Y'all don't necessarily know what I'm a resource for you might you might not. So you know, there's something to be said about going in and having that mixed kind of experience and having that flexibility. And what I'm hearing from y'all and in some ways is what I should be doing. And this is my takeaway is I should be getting back in the office, you know, a couple times a week as I can, because I'm missing out on everyone, y'all. Which isn't necessarily a good thing for me, because I'm just gonna stagnate and that kind of a thing. I think I'm really liking what you all are saying in the different ways that you're saying it because all of these kind of experiences are valid.

Lauren Burton  29:03

I think you're being too hard on yourself, though, because you're like any other like new hire, new addition to the team. The first thing that I was told to do is print off all of the employee faces. And they ...

Jarett Anderson  29:21

Yeah?

Lauren Burton  29:21

so I think more people know you know what, you're resourceful, like you're giving yourself credit, but I also know that like in a successful hybrid environment and just being in the office, there's a lot of conversation of like, okay, well how do we get Jarett back in the office is we show him this like buzz and this energy, and we have eat and great lunches, and intern pizza parties and all of these things. So it's like, and we have free snacks. Sometimes if I'm like I did not go grocery shopping this week, but I need a snack. I can work in the office today.

Jarett Anderson  29:55

Right? Get the banana get all that stuff.

Lauren Burton  29:59

Yes. Seems like you're being a little hard on yourself. But it's also doing what it's intended to do I guess if you want to come back to the office now.

Lauren Burton  30:01

Right. It is doing what it is intended to do, which is great. 

Lauren Burton  30:20

Yeah. 

Jarett Anderson  30:21

And, you know, I think there's, there's an intentionality that we all need to have whether or not we're in the office, you know, we heard earlier, I'm in the office five days a week, because I want to network because I want this thing. And we heard, I'm in the office, and I want the interaction, and a little bit more hands on approach. You know, we also heard I have responsibilities and this far away, and I need to do these things. So right now, this works for me. And then when I come back, you know, we can we can change and have that flexibility kind of going forward. And also, there are things that we have to do back in the office, right? There's the interiors library, if you're on the CA side of things, there's samples to manage, there's all that good stuff, too. So accommodating all of these things is a challenge. It's a challenge for everyone. We're learning as we go. So we appreciate your patience and your feedback, which I'm sure you give. But what are some other things that I didn't bring up that you would like to bring up?

Hasnaa Elaraby  31:13

I think maybe for future interns, I think it would be very helpful if you know, since we have these check ins, with my supervisor, with my mentor with my social mentor and all of that, I think it would be also helpful to add another component, which is giving feedback to interns on how they're doing every week, what are other colleagues thinking about this intern and maybe like areas of growth areas of things that we shouldn't, we should work on more. So far, I've been hearing like positive things about my work, I'd be BWBR. And I'm grateful for that. But I would also like to know what I'm weak at so that I can use this time at BWBR to work on this more than maybe other areas. I have had a document, and that was for just school related things. And I had to my supervisor had to sign it off and give me feedback on paper on areas of growth, which I really appreciate it. It was like, oh, I need to work more on CD's, I need to work more on I don't know, my finished schedules or whatnot. Because of that feedback. I shifted from 3D stuff to other CD stuff so that I can gain all the experience I need. So I think yeah, the feedback part is very important. Having like a structured feedback conversation with interns, every once in a while, they'll be very, very helpful.

Jarett Anderson  32:37

Yeah, that's a great, great comment, because there are those, how do you communicate about the hard skills that are that are needed? Right? So a lot of nodding there, how do you communicate the hard skills? And sometimes that's a continual process, but formalizing that feedback a little bit and structuring that that's a great thought. Sometimes I think we do that indirectly. Yeah, we don't point at it and say it right. And that should be part of the the honesty side of things and that kind of thing. So yeah, thank you for that.

Cail Tomlin  33:08

I think just to continue off of that, if there's one thing as an architectural student, it's that I have grown to welcome that more negative side of critiquing, because you learn eventually, that even though it can be seen as something that's negative, they're not saying it to tear you down, they're saying it so that you can grow from it. So I would much prefer somebody to hammer on a project of mine for 10 minutes than I would for them to sing my praises for two.

Lauren Burton  33:38

I think like one of the most helpful pieces of advice that I got from a professor, and I only allow myself one breakdown per semester. And I hit that. And then and then after that one breakdown, I'm like, alright, these are stresses that I cannot stress about because I already had my breakdown. But one of the pieces of advice is he like looked at like my 18 models that I brought that I had, like all of this new like my new models, my new drawings, my new diagrams, my new like, color coded everything. And he was like, there's no progress. And I was like, excuse me what? Like there's no progress? I have 18 new things for you. But it was like if it's not intentional, and if it's if you're just doing things to get things done to produce work to show it to, you know, meet, cross out the lines to you know, meet these things, if you're just doing that. And it's not intentional, and it's not behind it like there is no progress. So while there is like physically progress that you have made, and you have stuff to show that you did make that progress, there was no intention behind it. And I think I mean, maybe in a roundabout way that goes back to like Hasnaa's comment of like she would like to know more feedback on like what she is doing. I think that's really interesting because at the end of my first summer that I worked with BWBR they had had asked for my feedback. And I guess now reflecting back on that, I should have probably asked for their feedback, because I don't think I did. I think I just filled out this questionnaire and I sent it off. And I was like, perfect. This is the best firm ever, please hire me in five years when I graduate, but it was like you, you sit back, I think so often, it's easy to just default, like autopilot and be like, Oh, this is the best from the best place, the best hybrid working system like this da da da da.so Great, and you can hype it up all you want. But when you sit there in reality, it's like there are things I can work on, there is actual feedback I can grow from. And there can be like an intentionality behind the feedback we receive and feedback we give. And so that was a very good point. I really appreciate that. 

Zeekra Baset Nadi  35:50

Yeah, I also want to echo what Hasnaa had to say like, it's a very short period of time for the student interns. Like summer is a very short period. And I just want to add that like, sometimes there is not a lot going on, or maybe the orientation can be pretty bit long. So I would love to be, you know, like involved in more works or maybe more varieties of works, rather than just stuck to into one on one whole project. I mean, I appreciate like, I mean, doing the one whole project and seeing all the progress, how it's doing. But I also want to learn more of other projects, maybe from other departments, I would have maybe a little bit knowledge about what they are doing what I can be useful for them to work on. So that would be one suggestion for me like, yeah, I would love to have more, you know, like more experience on like, of the, in terms of working and maybe learning some pretty new things. Like I'm appreciating like what I'm doing right now, but sometimes it can be like a like, Lauren says, she goes for Landmark Learning stuff. So I also do that, like, sometimes I don't have like much going on, I could just watch Landmark Learning and go for all the details and everything. And they're really great. But then I feel like, Oh, I could utilize this in a project. But what project I'm gonna do? Uh, yeah. So yeah, that's that to find, because summer internship is like, pretty short for me. And like, as I'm an international student, and I'm not allowed to work during my school year. It's like not allowed to work like more than 20 hours. And I'm also working as a research assistant in my school. So that 20 hour goes to my research assistantship. So for me, like it's a very short period of time as an intern, but I would love to have the more experience on other projects and what I can do in other departments too.

Jarett Anderson  37:40

What I hear from y'all is a lot of initiative. I hear a lot of wanting to hear, I want to learn this way. I hear a lot of, you know, this is the time for me to learn the time for me to grow. And you know, keep that hunger. I think that's, that's a healthy thing to have. And I would say though, the critique and the negative critique and stuff is important, it is equally important to know your strengths and know how you perceive things and know yourself, because knowing yourself, knowing your strengths, serves you going forward and helps you cover those blind spots and the things you don't know as well as yes, now is the time to learn now is the time to try these things. My sage advice, if I have any. And I don't know, that I'm supposed to give any, is other people can make up for your weaknesses. Like you know where you're strong, you can team up and none of this happens in a vacuum. None of this happens by yourself. Everyone is part of a team here as it should be. And there's always that resource, there's always the person to reach out to there's always the person to help you go forward or give you the feedback that you need. Sometimes stepping and asking for that feedback is the step that needs to be taken and awesome Hasnaa on asking for that feedback. And thank you again for sharing about maybe there's a way to formalize that a little bit better in the internship process

Lauren Burton  39:01

Along the lines of like Zeekra saying like to be more integrated into different projects like coming from this is my third summer but two years of working with the company. I did kind of get myself in a little bit of a pickle this past couple weeks because I was in transition from, we had just issued a project like complete wrapped up. And so I was starting a new project. And in this kind of limbo transition period, I had reached out to too many people, and made myself too available. And so like that was a very hard lesson to learn and like go back and be like, I am so sorry, but I do not have this time that I said I did have. Or it was a I told you I have 10 hours and I'm strict only 10 hours like you cannot take my 10 hours for 40. And so that's one thing and maybe that's something that I've developed being more comfortable with the company more comfortable with the people and more comfortable with the atmosphere is being able to ask and be very vocal about like, this is the experience that I want, this is what I can do. This is the time I do have, these are the positions that I want to be in and where I want my growth to be. And so maybe it's, maybe I do just, maybe I was overly vocal because I am very comfortable with the people that I'm working with, which is a good thing. But also it proved a very useful lesson of do not over promise yourself, but something that I think even just speaks volumes for, like the company and the people that they hire is like I, every single one of like the three people that I went back to and I was like, I'm so sorry, like I don't have this time every single person was overly like, affirmative of, do not be sorry for asking for more work and do not be sorry for like advocating for yourself and the time that you do have. And it was like the very good response to you are useful and make yourself useful. So along with learning a lesson, it made it, I was very comfortable learning that lesson with this firm, because it was not like a shot in the foot type of you know, learning from it. It was like a very Oh, it's okay. Like, we'll just keep you busy. Like...

Jarett Anderson  41:10

Right, I think it depends upon what's, what's the environment kind of out there. You want to make sure that sounds like you have this work ethic, a positive work ethic, you want to stay busy, you want to do your thing, and stay busy and you're out there fishing, making sure that hey, I need to stay busy and trying to make sure that you're attached to the project. Are you getting the experience that you want that kind of a thing? And yeah, you know, sometimes everyone's like, hey, you know, what is Lauren available? Can I get, Can I get some Lauren time? Me as a project manager, I'd be like, you know, Lauren's available Excellent. And then, you know, try to try to get learn on my project. But if my project didn't ultimately align with your goals or whatever, whatever that that's okay, so I'm glad that the what you had heard is no, that's okay. Advocate for yourself. And then you know, we all strive for, you know, a work life balance or work life fit. However, I prefer the term work life fit. Yeah. Kudos to you for an I don't even like the turn kudos, but kudos to you for for doing that. That's that's a that's something good to get out of the way and learn early on in your career for sure. 

Lauren Burton  41:15

I'll take the kudos. 

Jarett Anderson  41:55

You'll take the Kudos, great! Nice, all right. If there isn't anything else going once, going twice. Alright, great. Thank you all so much for your time and your insights. Until next time, see you on the other side.

Matthew Gerstner  42:40

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