A Different Side of Design: Meet the BWBR Graphic Design Team

At BWBR, the graphic design team ventures into the physical realm, envisioning three-dimensional spaces and conceptualizing how two-dimensional elements will interact. That means considering an array of materials and components with innumerable moving parts. Window films to wall coverings, acrylic panels, signage, lettering, wayfinding messages…the list goes on.

Hosted by: 
Matt Gerstner - BWBR Podcast Host and Producer

Guests:
Rachel Slette - BWBR Senior Graphic Designer
Maddie Smith - BWBR Graphic Designer
Emily Prigge - BWBR Graphic Designer
Avery Gidley - BWBR Graphic Designer


Music provided by Artlist.io
Siberian Summer by Sunny Fruit
DuDa by Ian Post

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Transcript

Matthew Gerstner  

This is Side of Design from BWBR, a podcast discussing all aspects of design with knowledge leaders from every part of the industry. 

Matthew Gerstner  

Hi and welcome to Side of Design from BWBR, I'm Matt Gerstner, your host for today. On this episode we'll be talking with BWBR'ss talented graphic design team, exploring how they add beauty and functionality to our spaces. Joining us is senior graphic designer Rachel Slette, and design team, Maddie Smith, Emily Prigge, and Avery Gidley. Thank you all for being here.

Rachel Slette  

Thanks. Thanks for having us.

Matthew Gerstner  

You know, just get things going all throughout this question, what kind of work does the graphic design team do related to client projects? Rachel, how'd you like to get us started?

Rachel Slette  

Absolutely. We touch on probably 90 to 95% of project work, client work. And it's anywhere from little things coloring some floor plans, all the way up to designing and helping design environmental graphics, putting together pre design reports, workshop materials that our project teams are going to donor walls, signage and wayfinding concepts. You name it, we've probably done it either one time or 100 different times. So it's quite a variety of work that we get to do on the client side of things. And it's fun to be able to work with different project teams. I think we all really, really enjoy that part of it as well. 

Matthew Gerstner  

Very cool. So you don't just this is this isn't just print material. This isn't just say graphics for the website. It goes beyond that you're actually designing and doing physical things that actually go into some of these spaces, right?

Rachel Slette  

Yes. So we are touching on, especially working with project teams, we're brainstorming and ideating. And trying to think of things a little bit differently than maybe the project teams see things, just bringing a different perspective, in terms of three dimensional spaces, two dimensional walls, it could be a wall covering wall protection, window film, working with acrylic panels, or standoff letters, so many different types of materials out there in today's design world that we try to explore all of those. Sometimes they're extremely successful. Other times we know, let's maybe steer clear now knowing and having that experience.

Matthew Gerstner  

Fascinating, fascinating. So how do you the graphics design team fit into the project process and workflow, you know, and, and collaborate with our design teams?

Rachel Slette  

We will sit down with, you know, the principal or the project manager, we'll put together a work effort, we can then send to the client and figure out how long something's going to take. And then we get to work once we have that. Yep, let's move forward with this, we'll talk with the design team a lot of times the project teams will have a Miro board that they'll bring us up to speed with on what the design looks like up to this point, floor plans, materials that they're using in the space. And from there, we'll just listen in on what their thoughts are. Sometimes the clients have preconceived ideas that they want us to move forward with. Other times, it's we start out with an ideation brainstorm, meeting. And whether that's with a couple of us on the graphic design team, and the client and our project team. Or if it's a little bit more condensed, sometimes that works too. But then we'll just continue to meet with our internal client, which is our colleagues and staff here at BWBR and then we'll brainstorm within our internal graphics team, and then flush it out, push it out to the design team and have them help really comment critique the design work that we have for initial concepts, and then we just continue to move it forward from there.

Maddie Smith  

I would definitely say too, one of my favorite parts is working with project teams for sure is every single project is different because every single project team internally that we work with is completely different. So working with different interior designers, I think after being out with the firm for seven years now, I know how to work with certain people. But then we obviously have some newcomers that are newer to the process. And so it's constantly learning from one another. And my personal favorite part, I guess I would say about that is the seeing what finishes your interior designer has and working with those existing design choices that have already been nailed down and figuring out how we can work our graphics and to make it all feel cohesive and consistent. So it's just another facet but definitely having that time working with the other team members and getting their opinions on the design process that's happened thus far, and figuring out how we can make it even better with our design work is so much fun. 

Matthew Gerstner  

So it sounds like you're working with BWBR's clients, and internally, our own teams, which are kind of clients. And it sounds like this is really an iterative process like you're working on an idea and that's that's just continuing to develop or maybe it takes you in a different direction?

Maddie Smith  

It definitely is, I think, I think we for sure, take things one step at a time. So, for example, we're working on a project right now. And there's multiple different spaces. And we have probably what Rachel 15 wall spaces that we're looking at doing. 

Maddie Smith  

And in order to approach it from the top down, I mean, the first thing we need to do is study the floorplan and figure out what types of spaces do we have. So that we can get a grasp on all of the different facets and how we want this to transition both from a Wayfinding standpoint, but also just functionality for our time. So there are some inpatient units that we're working on. And so they're all similar spaces, and they're structured the same. So we said we could probably do one design, but then extended out and do different colors for each of the different units. So it's just kind of figuring out from a very high level approach, understanding the space. And we really set up our presentations based on the next time we meet with our internal team, or be it the client, to really walk through, okay, here's where we're at, here's what we hope to accomplish during this meeting, and here's our next steps. I wouldn't say that when we start these projects, we have like a clear understanding of how it's going to go. And as much as we do have a process we like to follow. We're working with different people every time. So there's different parameters with different industries that we're working with. So a lot of times it might take a turn or so it's really learning to be present, be flexible. And also try to understand it from a designer's perspective of how to carry it forward in the best way possible that we can. And I would say that's where our team is super strong. I think we are constantly bouncing ideas off each other, at least like Rachel and I, a lot of times I'll say Hey, can you swing over and look at this? Here's, here's the approach. I'm thinking does this make sense? And a lot of times it's a, I guess, constructive criticism in a way of saying can you can poke holes in this because I'm so in it, I need an outsider's perspective. And that's what I love about our team is, I guess, remaining flexible, and still trying to find order within all of the chaos. And it's so satisfying when you get to the end of a project, or even just to a certain point in a project where you can look back and be like, okay, like we started this, and there may not have known how this is going to turn out. But wow, like, look how far we've come. 

Rachel Slette  

Yep. 

Rachel Slette  

And I think to that point, Maddie makes really good points. But I think to that point, as well, in working with project teams, or our internal clients, here at BWBR it's making sure that we're open to the project team's feedback as well as the outside clients feedback, because it's all going to be different. And, you know, we're just putting some designs up and we think that they're successful, but like Maddie said, we want people to poke holes in the design to make sure that we have thought of everything, like every audience, or every person that's going to use the different spaces we're designing for, they need something different. So making sure that we're designing for those items, too, is key. And being open to that on our side, I think is what helps us make our team so successful with our projects.

Matthew Gerstner  

I don't think many people would think of graphic design in an architecture firm. So it feels it feels very unique in that way. And what I'd really like to hear is from each of you, if you could just share a little bit about your career paths, because it's such a unique career within an architectural firm. So what's your career paths and backgrounds that led you into doing this for architecture? And Avery why don't you get us started.

Avery Gidley  

I went to Iowa State and I studied graphic design there. And during that process, I interned at a creative agency in Chicago. And then after that, during COVID time, I was a remote intern for BWBR. So that kind of is what led me to graphic design at BWBR.

Matthew Gerstner  

What keeps you interested at BWBR You know, as opposed to that ad agency in Chicago what you know what makes you want to stay in the architecture side of things and do what you're doing here?

Avery Gidley  

I think BWBR is really special with the people that we work with everyone you know, Minnesota Nice is so real and it's very true. And I think that that makes all the difference even more so I think we have such great clients as well. And I really appreciate the variety and workload at BWBR I feel like we get to touch on so many different aspects of architecture and So many different projects that maybe we wouldn't get to cover in just an agency setting, for example, so I really, I really enjoy that piece of it.

Rachel Slette  

I think I'll just add to that, in that Avery is a remote worker. So she's living in Florida, which is really awesome every day in the wintertime we're like, that's the weather there? Because we're in like below zero temps, but the fact that Avery is fully distant, and we are still such a close knit team, we have a lot of trust within our team is really cool for us to have that dynamic.

Matthew Gerstner  

Very cool. Very, very cool. Emily, what's what's your story? What's your background?

Emily Prigge  

I feel like ever since I was like super little, I just really loved everything creativity based and exploration based just anything in art. In general, I would steal my mom's camera and go take photos, draw on the walls, sketching, painting, like, you name it, I just loved it all. Initially, I was really set on wanting to be a vet. But I got to Senior High School. And that kind of did a 180. And I was like, I don't know if this is for me. So then I was talking my mom. And just based on like all the things I liked and have liked through my childhood up until then. She's like, Oh, what do you think about graphic design. And at that point, you know, I came from a super small town and a super small school. So I didn't have any previous background with that. Not much knowledge up until then, but I decided to go with it. So I went to the University of Minnesota and Duluth for four years for graphic design. I absolutely fell in love with it. And I'm still in love with it. So it was everything around it. I just love it. I did like Avery mentioned, I also did a couple internships up there. Two of them were for outdoor Duluth companies. One was Duluth Pack, and the other one was Frost River. And then I know a lot of people are also probably familiar with Glensheen mansion up there. I was an intern there too. So kind of bounced around between a couple different ones, and then graduated this past May of 2022. And then was hired right away for BWBR and like Avery and Rachel and kind of everyone else in the firm mentions, it's really like the people and the culture and the work that make BWBR what it is. And that's the biggest reason of why I'm like, so happy with it still, and I have no intent to leave. So unless someone kicks me out, I'm ...

Emily Prigge  

like, if you were to ask me, you know, when I was in college or like before that, if I would have thought that graphic design would lead me to an architecture firm. I would never have guessed that. And like you were saying Matt, a lot of people I don't think realize that graphic designers work directly with architects and within an architecture firm. But even though it was a surprise I like I said I'm super happy with it.

Matthew Gerstner  

That is absolutely wonderful, Maddie. All right, let's hear your story.

Maddie Smith  

Okay, so I actually I went out of state for college. And so I went to Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee after growing up in a southern suburb of the Twin Cities in Apple Valley. My parents had moved out of state when I had graduated and so naturally, it felt right to follow them down south. And they were about four hours away. So Belmont was a great choice. For me. It was just enough distance. I liked the idea of starting somewhere fresh and just kind of building my own community from there. Similar to Emily, I was actually a nursing major my freshman year of college was going to follow in my sister's footsteps and thought that's what I was gonna do. I always put graphic design on the backburner. I loved always doing creative stuff growing up, just decided. One day on a whim, I went and met with one of the professors in the design school and I was like, Yeah, okay, this sounds this sounds cool. I had no prior experience working in any of our design programs or Adobe Suite prior to going into this. And so I really just kind of flew in blind and flew by the seat of my pants and made it work. And I found I think when I was in school, I have always been very, what is it left brain right brain? I equally like lists and rigidity and routine and order as much as I also really love creative things. And so I kind of found a little bit of an edge within the program in comparison to a lot of the other my peers, I guess in the program, I was always hitting my deadlines. I was far exceeding my deadlines. And I realized that in the real world and in the corporate world, I was like you, you can't you need to you need to fit your deadlines where I had other peers that would come in and be like, Oh, the creative juices weren't coming to me. And I was like, I tell it that way. I just I equally had fun with the design projects. But I also found I really thrived in having, you know, deadlines to work with having parameters to work with things like that because it made it more fun when you found a solution to things. I wouldn't say and I think even now, I say as humbly like, you know, I don't feel like a lot of my design solutions are like the absolute best that they could be. I think they're really cool but I think it also it, it's important to understand as designers not only in graphics world, but in architecture too is there's outside opinions, there's outside forces, there's deadlines, there's different things that make the end result what it is. And so it's just doing the best you can with what you got. And so in that respect in school, I definitely leveraged trying to get as much experience as I could. So I had multiple internships. I interned one year at the Minnesota zoo, I worked for an advertising agency. And then I also my first internship out of school was with a commercial real estate company. And that wound up being my first position, full time position out of school, and that was in Atlanta. I liked the commercial real estate realm. And it's funny thinking back to when I was still in school, talking to one of my professors. I remember one day after class he had asked me he was like Manny, he's like, what would your dream job be? Like? I'm really curious, like, what would it be? And I remember vividly, I told him, I said, you know, if I could combine something between spatial design and graphic design, that would be it. And I mean, even just sitting here now, like, it's kind of come full circle, because it is It's experiential design. It's spatial design. I think that's what led me to this and has kept me coming back. And I definitely appreciate, I think, the big conquest that are these large spatial efforts that we work on equally, as much as I like doing the little production work, or smaller internal office party branding, or just small items, I find that the variety just fuels me creatively in terms of finding a balance, I don't necessarily feel like I need to be high level creative all the time. But I equally get enjoyment out of a small production tasks as well. So kind of dabbling in a lot of those things. Definitely keep me going. And it certainly is, I mean, as Avery and Emily have said, as well, the people that I definitely appreciate them, all of these people that I work alongside are not only my coworkers are my friends, and I am excited to work with them every day, I think, Rachel, we come in pretty consistently, Tuesday, Thursdays. And most of the time, I feel like one of us is that the other ones desk and every time Rachel is like, either like a foot away from me, like leaning over my screen, she's like, I'm sorry, I'm in your bubble. And I'm just like, you're lucky like you like it's nice working with your friends, it makes it that much easier. And I think there's a level of comfort and care that's also involved in that too. And realizing that you're human beings, you have good days, you have bad days. And they're equally supportive of pushing me from a business standpoint into projects I'm uncomfortable with and wanting to tackle new territory. And then also understanding if you know, I come in, and I'm in more of a fragile mental state or things like that, I feel like it just we're a caring team and equally, a group of good friends, even within our group and outside of that as well with other colleagues in the office. So I kind of went way far off graphic design of my background, but that's what I got. 

Matthew Gerstner  

That's okay, I loved it, I just love to hear that, you know, you got the camaraderie within your group. That's such an important thing. It's that's an intangible that you hope is there, when you put people together. That's not something that can be forced. And so that's, that's a wonderful thing to hear. And then you also said something about, you're maybe not doing the greatest work, but you're doing your best work. And I think in all creative fields, there comes a time that you just have to stop. Because we can always keep changing, we can always keep improving. And so you know, I love to hear that that happens to on your side of things.

Maddie Smith  

Oh, for sure. It's easy to go on Pinterest, when you're looking at inspirations and be like, Oh my gosh, this stuff is so beautiful, how am I going to recreate this, but it's like you immediately take yourself out of the game, if you go in with that mentality. And I think it's just you have to take things, you know, similar to our project work do you have to take things one foot at a time, dip your toe in and slowly ease into it, instead of looking at it from getting from point A to point B, you just got to look at getting just a little bit further down the road. And eventually you'll get there you might do a couple of twists and turns but I mean, it's certainly I guess that's the it's creative block, I guess is what some people might call it. It's just like getting so overwhelmed with what's out there. And a lot of times I found you just have to ignore it. Just focus on what you're doing and proceed.

Matthew Gerstner  

Eventually you just have to stop because you can keep you can keep fixing it. You can keep making something look better you can keep doing but to what end?,

Maddie Smith  

It's always going to change. And Matt It's funny you say that too because it reminds me like right now I'm working on we have like some firm infographics like an overview infographic, a lot of stuff that we'll put in proposals or have different uses for it if we're trying to get our name out there and kind of introduce ourselves as a the firm to newer clients. And when I first started at BWBR in 2018, I had designed a new infographic, or like a firm overview graphic, you know, that's been used for God knows how long and this past month, I got to go back to that and take a look at it again, and rebrand it with our new brand refresh. And I remember opening the file and I was just like, what, even just looking at my old files, like seeing how much you've grown, and then also realizing that this is now outdated, but at the time, you know, it worked, everyone was really excited about it. And so it is it's artist subjective, right? It's, it's going to mean different things to different people. And so as creatives and working in that is trying to find that balance between getting the work done to the best of your abilities, and then moving on, that's all we can do.

Matthew Gerstner  

Absolutely. Absolutely. Rachel. Yeah, you've been with us the longest out of this group. What's, what's your story? How did you wind up at BWBR?

Maddie Smith  

It goes way back. I like Emily, when I was younger, and was always carrying a sketchbook around always doing the art stuff, painting, drawing, dabbling in the different crafts. I remember our dining room table always used to be like covered in my art projects. And so that led me to wanting to go into a design field that just, I wasn't sure of what that would look like. So in doing research, graphic design gave me enough variety to use all of that creative mentality. So decided to go into graphic design at UW Stout, and I also played volleyball there. So time management was key. Like Maddie touched on deadlines, and having those deadlines, meeting those deadlines. I also straddled that line of having lists and checking things off my list, but then also falling into that Creative Cloud, where you just want to design and design and design and until you get to a point where you're like, I just have to stop. I don't have any more time. It's the 25th hour. So when to step out. And then while I was there, I met one of our colleagues here at BWBR. We were roommates ever since our mid year freshman year of college, and she had an internship here at BWBR. And let me know, when there was a job opening in the graphics team at BWBR prior to that it was it was the time in the reception. So a lot of people weren't really hiring. And I went on a ton of different informational interviews and really tried to just focus on what do I really want out of my career? I remember going to one informational interview and they were like, well, you know, you'd be doing a lot of copying and pasting. And I was like, That is not for me, I'm not gonna be able to sit through eight hours of copying and pasting other people's designs. So Tina had let me know that there was an opening here at BWIBR. And I remember I was flying out to get to my like part time retail job and had to submit my cover letter, resume, portfolio all within like 30 minutes before I had to leave and came in and met with some folks here and got the job. And for last 15 years, it's just been really amazing. Growing my knowledge based on experience, and just working on the projects, working with people figuring out how to maneuver the different teams, and just being a sponge, soaking it all up. I know we use that term quite a bit in our team. It's just because we're learning even when we bring interns onto the team, we're learning from our interns and just having so much fun, like everyone else has said the variety and the creativity and just working alongside of people collaborating, brainstorming that's been super fun and seeing it come full circle into a finished project is so rewarding and gives you so much purpose as to why we're all here doing, doing the things that we love to design. 

Matthew Gerstner  

I love that there's similarities and very distinct differences between all four of your paths. It's it's really fascinating. But another question that I think will be equally fascinating, and probably give us some differences here is where each of you find inspiration to create some of the things that you're creating. So I know that that can vary obviously from project to project, but it feels like there's always when I look at architecture and our designers there's always something there's always a go to. There's Always something. So I'm wondering what what's your inspiration when you're looking at a project. And I think we're gonna start with Emily this time.

Emily Prigge  

So for projects specifically, I know I personally get a lot of inspiration from Getty Images, and just kind of sifting through that. But overall, in general, I would say Pinterest is definitely the highest because, like, literally just go on Pinterest, everything's gorgeous. And so I would say that's the biggest inspiration for me. But in terms of just like day to day life as well, Instagram is huge, too, especially in our generation, Instagram is like, how a lot of business owners have even been able to get their feet off the ground. And you know, that's just a super cool thing for me. So I do follow a lot of design based accounts on my personal Instagram, and just, you know, seeing the different reels that are posted, how they showcase their work, and just like different things like that. It's super inspiring to see what other people do. And especially with graphic design, there's always something new, there's always something that's changing. So that's the best way to keep up with things too. Because it's everything's always changing. So yeah, those would be my few. Yeah, I love seeing what other people do and how other people put design into play.

Avery Gidley  

I would echo what Emily said, I think Pinterest as well as Instagram within our team, I feel like we all bounce ideas off of each other. We have creative collective conversation, once a month, usually within our team and we just pull, whether it be a music album, you're really loving this month, or an Instagram reel or a video that you saw, or an article that you read something that sparks some little bit of creativity in your week or your month. And I think those are always really fun to see the different themes and all of our inspirations. I think we all get inspired by different things. So that's always really fun to have a conversation within our team. And then I think on a personal level, yeah, just like Emily said, Pinterest and Instagram, but then also kind of just like surroundings, being in nature and being inspired that way too, I think is always great.

Matthew Gerstner  

I think it's fascinating. You know, you've talked about walking outside going for a hike or DIY, working on something, DIY, that kind of thing. And that's, that's kind of cool because those kinds of things just trigger a stream of consciousness. Sometimes you see something while you're out or you're working on something, or you're flipping through Instagram or Pinterest and you start getting ideas in your head and that just kind of trickles on down and next thing you know you've gone down a rabbit hole and you are nowhere near what you started with. But I think it's kind of a cool, cool process. Rachel, tell me you have something different?

Maddie Smith  

I think structurally inspiration wise for our team, the way that we've I think trained, I guess ourselves to work in a similar fashion. Again, it would be Getty and Pinterest, I think outside of that. For me personally, I guess find inspiration by I'm an avid learner, and di wire and even outside of work. I think being that I'm on a screen and working digitally all day, I love to get out and just do stuff with my hands, be it having way too many plants, building myself a greenhouse, I am obsessed with just having like pet projects, I like to bake I like to sew, I like to go on hikes. I think I'm always kind of adapting and figuring out new hobbies and figuring ways to make, figuring out ways to make things or do it myself. And I think it not only brings like a good story, it just brings more knowledge that in some way or the other I can bring into the work that I'm doing every day. I think those are probably my biggest forms of inspiration. And kind of leads back to what Rachel said is just having a mindset of being able to constantly learn coming from that position versus I mean being not, I mean, I've been in the industry for God almost eight years now, which is crazy. That being said, I think it's by approaching it from that perspective. And knowing that there's still so much more that I can learn. Even though I have honed in my skills, I have my strong suits, I figured out what I like, what I'm good at. And I certainly know how to carry through projects within the firm on there's still a lot of knowledge out there that AI can learn from other people or that sort of thing. So I definitely gravitate towards the YouTube platform. Maybe it's a little bit older in age, but I love a good DIY video. I'm always up to do those sorts of things. And I find they they fuel me, they also keep me very busy and keep my hands very calloused. So ...

Maddie Smith  

Online, Yeah, those are always like, ways of getting creative and finding that inspiration and usually finding that inspiration when you're out and about for me a lot comes with like my kids or what their family they're doing or friends are doing walking up to pick them up from school. And then when I'm driving home from the office or driving back from dropping them off, is usually when I'm like decompressing from things. And that's when that inspiration hits. And it's like, oh, and just being aware that that inspiration is hitting and knowing how to direct that, or fuel that inspiration into a project or something that we could potentially use on a project and just getting it out there. I think sometimes to stepping outside of our comfort zone, that gives me inspiration. I know, I haven't had time to go to them recently. But AIGA always posts different speakers and talking through like, their backgrounds or what they're doing. And that always came like it would always hit me and I'd always come back to the office like, just with a such a fresh perspective on we could do this for this project. And just moving things forward and thinking differently and thinking outside of our comfort zone. I think that and just other designers, our entire team here, and then on top of that, all the other designers in our office, everyone has like, such a special talent and designing things that I think just being able to grab onto some of those and use those ideas for inspiration in different ways. You know, thinking back, like giving tours of our interiors library, using different carpet patterns and things or tile patterns to use as inspiration in some of our wallcovering designs or film designs. It's kind of a laugh. But I think inspiration does spark from so many different areas of life.

Matthew Gerstner  

That is absolutely true. That is absolutely true. And so within this creative field that you're all working in, and you're finding inspiration in all of these different ways, there have to be some kind of like technical or material challenges that you've run into on projects.

Maddie Smith  

That is tricky. It does happen. We try like to make sure that it doesn't. But I think sometimes it's inevitable. Sometimes when we think of, oh, let's add some spot glass here, or let's print on a metallic finish or whatever. There's a lot of research that goes into those. So sometimes we can figure out how to do that. But sometimes there are just issues with that, you know, in terms of printing it or getting it printed. Lead time for certain materials is a tough one too. But I think our team is really good at diving in and trying to figure out alternative solutions that I mean, yes, we do run into some of those issues with software and figuring out artwork and all those fine tune details that people sometimes don't realize that we work on. But I think our team is also really great at researching alternative solutions so that if we can't do something that the client has requested, maybe there's an alternative way of looking at it. So always coming to the table with different solutions is a way to go around having those issues.

Maddie Smith  

We tried to approach when we're in the concept in phase of projects, like we try to throw everything down the kitchen sink, like we try to come up with a ton of options, in a way to be able to create those conversations on the forefront to be what do you like, What do you dislike, and just give people a wider variety of options to cast a wider net so that when we do make a decision, there's more of a general consensus and understanding of why we came to that decision, or there's a clear path as to why we got there. But I would say in terms of issues like that as well, I would say just remaining flexible. And again, realizing that you know, the final product is subjective. And instances of design. Like say we have a client that is more particular. And another client might be really laid back and be like, well, what are you like, certainly, it would be nice to work with that client all the time that is super easy and seamless. But at the same time, it's not realistic. And at the end of the day, we want all of our clients to be happy. But I find I think in instances where somebody is more opinionated or those sorts of things, it certainly is difficult, creates more work for us sometimes but I find those challenges are the more rewarding ones when you do find to, come to I guess a completed finished product is because you know, it was more collaborative. And you were able to, you know, remain composed, flexible, and you probably learned a lot of new things out of that, you know the ladder, I guess positioning or client relationship from that other one because there were more hurdles that you certainly had to jump through but you're going into new or newer projects and walking away from that experience with just more knowledge and information of how to work with people, you know how to tailor your design. And there's valuable knowledge I think that comes from the challenges that we work through. 

Rachel Slette  

And I think that is so true. And I think another thing is, is just having that experience and taking it as a learning opportunity, I think we're really good at just being open to critiquing other designs, and just having that be a learning opportunity for next time. Instead of it, you know, bogging us down with all those technical issues, we just focus it as a learning opportunity.

Matthew Gerstner  

So I know we're running a little bit long. And to try and just get things moving along. I'm going to ask just one more big question. And it's kind of a fun one. Because it's a little bit of a tradition of BWBR, we put out a just an incredible printed card that we send to our clients and partners twice a year. And can you tell us a little bit about some examples of those cards, and you know, why it's such an important tradition and some of the cool concepts and things that you've done?

Maddie Smith  

Yeah, it is a tradition that goes back to prior to my time, here at BWBR, they're completely customized cards. And it's really fun about it or with it is that the staff get to incorporate or play a role in coming up with the ideas, generating ideas, and then we as graphics, get to put our own spin on it, and completely customize them to what they are. And it, it really brings staff into it, especially our winter cards. When staff get together, we have a signing party now. People are adding customized messages to different clients, consultants, the people that we work with, and people really seem to enjoy getting the cards, a couple of our most recent ones have been like a pop out tree that we've done turning paper into a tree, vice versa from turning a tree into paper. A couple of years ago, for a summer card, we asked our entire staff to submit songs that they love to listen to. So we could create a customized playlist for when they're going on a road trip, or when they're just sitting around having a campfire outside with family and friends. So we created a more of like a CD or record type looking card. But the really fun ones there. They're all really fun. They're really fun ones are when the staff gets to play a part in them.

Maddie Smith  

I think our most successful cards for sure. And Rachel did touch on that record one, we did the playlist one, I think our winter cards, I mean, it's hard to top every year for one. I mean, there's always an idea that was thrown out, like in a previous, you know, initial concepting meeting that we're like, oh, yeah, save that one for next year. And then it comes up the next year. And it either kind of just dies down for a little bit or eventually they circle back. But I think our most successful ones, it combines getting to the end user having some sort of interactive element. And it's, I guess that end result of staff participation in some way. So in that instance, it was the playlist it was a retro feel to nod to our 100 year. In certain instances as well, I think it is, was applicable to the time I think with the pandemic for the record one, it was in some way a gift we could give to someone that was something they would use and be able to remain, I guess stay safe in a way and we leverage the use and the rising use of QR codes at that point in time too. So you would scan the QR code and it would take you to the playlist. And we also set up playlists on both platforms of Apple Music and Spotify. And we had two playlists. So there was Side A, a Side B, so there were two different one was a more relaxed one. One was a more upbeat one. But knowing that it was our staff that chose the songs that were that curated the playlist and then having this physical thing that you could a tangible item that you put them listen to, I think really encompassed what we've set out to do, I think with the cards is just something fun, light hearted. And it's something that we were able to come together to create granted graphics is the one that really kind of makes that finish feel and the finished product. But knowing that there is that much effort and thought that goes into that, as from a firm in its entirety, I think is the most fun aspect of it. And it certainly is the coolest part of I think one of the coolest projects that we get to work on internally every year.

Rachel Slette  

And I think it's just a testament to how truly grateful we are that we get to work with some really great folks and the projects that we do work on that really shines through when we get to come up with these ideas. And these cards.

Matthew Gerstner  

I know it's so well received. I mean when you see it if we see it every year and there's there's Dozens and dozens of just such cool cards that have gone out, which makes it so much fun. So is there anything else that I haven't touched on that I haven't asked that anybody wanted to talk about?

Rachel Slette  

I don't think so. I think we've touched on a lot of it. We've got a really fun team. We love to collaborate.

Matthew Gerstner  

We do have a really fun team. And for our listeners, I get the pleasure of sitting next to this group when I'm in the office as well. And it's always a ton of fun when we are sitting there together. Absolutely appreciate every single one of you joining me today and taking time out to have this conversation. And so thank you all so much for your insights on what graphic design can do in an architecture firm. I know it's changed our game. And I think our listeners are going to hear that as well. So thank you all. 

Rachel Slette  

Thank you. 

Matthew Gerstner  

And thank you to our listeners we will catch you on the other side. 

Matthew Gerstner  

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