Books set in Amsterdam

Amy and Geoff discuss their trip to Amsterdam and review books and movies set in this gorgeous, progressive city. Tulip Fever is a historical novel set in 17th-century Amsterdam during the rise of tulip trade. The Dinner is a contemporary domestic thriller that takes place over the course of one meal at a high-end restaurant.

Books and Resources discussed:

Tulip Fever by Deborah Moggach
Tulip Fever, movie 2017
Girl with a Pearl Earring by Tracy Chevalier
The Dinner by Herman Koch
The Dinner, movie 2017

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

and hanging in 1000 homes. Paintings mirror back the lives that are lived there. A woman plays the virginal she catches the eye of the man beside her. A handsome young soldier lifts the glass to his lips. His reflection shines in the silver top decanter. A maid gives her mistress a letter, the mirrored moments are still suspended and aspect for centuries to come. People gaze at these paintings and wonder what is about to happen. That letter what does it say to the woman who stands at the window? The sunlight streaming onto her face? Is she in love? Will she throw with a letter? Or will she obey it, waiting until the house is empty and stealing out through the rooms that recede? Bathed in shafts of sunshine at the back of the painting? Hello, welcome back to the Red Fern. I'm your host, Amy. And today I'm joined on location in Paris by my executive producer, Jeff. Jeff. Hi,

Geoff Mair: 1:27

Amy. How's it going? Good.

Unknown: 1:31

And if you can hear with a little background noise today, yeah,

Geoff Mair: 1:35

you're getting the sounds of Paris from our apartment that we're in.

Unknown: 1:40

I decided to keep the window open for a few minutes. So it sounded kind of like I was an NPR host. Does it sound like that to you?

Geoff Mair: 1:47

It certainly does lots of traffic in the background.

Unknown: 1:51

I'm just gonna close the window now because it's kind of hard to hear. But we are staying in the apartment in the 10th arrondissement. And we are close to an area called Canal Saint Martin

Geoff Mair: 2:09

which I think is like a really cool neighborhood.

Unknown: 2:13

But we don't want to we don't want to. We just want to tease that because we're going to come back a couple of weeks to talk about Parisian bucks. Right? Sounds good. Okay. Okay. So stop there. But today, we're going to talk about books set in Amsterdam, which is where we spent one week seems like a long time ago, but we were there.

Geoff Mair: 2:33

Sure does seem like a long time ago. But yeah, no, it was great. I love love Amsterdam for sure.

Unknown: 2:38

And we're going to discuss two novels. First, we're going to talk about the historical novel Tulip Fever by Deborah Moggach. And then we're going to follow that up with a talk about contemporary domestic thriller The Dinner by Herman Koch. But actually, I'm the only one that read the books.

Geoff Mair: 3:00

Yeah, I was a little lazy for this episode. We're on vacation. So I didn't read the books. I actually watched the movies. So we're going to compare and contrast.

Unknown: 3:10

Yes, actually, I think that will make for a good discussion. So I'm going to talk about the books. And then Jeff is gonna chime in at the end and sort of explain what the movies were like. And it turns out, they're quite different. And we had kind of, yeah, they're they don't relate in certain ways. But Okay, before we talk about both books, what were your kind of general impressions about the people and the city of Amsterdam? So I think that kind of puts these two books into context.

Geoff Mair: 3:41

Well, I love Amsterdam. I, you know, I've been there before, you know, not in, oh, I don't know, 30 years. But Amsterdam, I think is one of my favorite cities. Probably Rome and Amsterdam are my two favorite cities. And the reason I love Amsterdam is the people in the city itself, like the city is beautiful canal line streets, old, you know, historic buildings everywhere. It's just a very beautiful and sort of romantic, historical, urban environment. It's just a really, really pleasant place to walk around. The weather was a little bit mixed in October, you know, we had a very, very, very, very rainy bike trip around Amsterdam and outside of Amsterdam, but we had a great time. And so I love the city, the weather could have been better, but the city is great. And then the people I think are amazing. I just love the culture of Holland. I think they're, they're not like openly friendly, but they are, you know, they're a little bit stern and very, I'd say straightforward. They tend to be quite blunt and direct in how they they speak to you but I really appreciate that. And you know, something like appearing while we were there, the way that they describe their culture is very much live and let live. And you can see that and how they interact with each other and just how people, you know, act in general, there's lots of sort of diversity of people and that's very accepted and diversity of things that they do. And that's all very accepted. And I really liked that. I think that I think it's a really an amazing place because of the people.

Unknown: 5:28

I agree. I loved it. I thought, I think it's beautiful. Like you said, I thought it was kind of easy to get around as well, because if you ever got lost, there's just a couple of churches in each direction. And that kind of centered you and

Geoff Mair: 5:44

it strikes me as a very like mature culture like a very evolved.

Unknown: 5:48

Yeah, very, very liberal. Very liberal. Liberal. Which is up your alley. Yeah, I think. So, in, in always, okay, so let's move over and we're gonna leave some things left unsaid there. But we're gonna we're gonna talk about the first book, Tulip Fever. Okay, Tulip Fever is written by Deborah Magog, and she's a British novelist and screenplay writer, and she's written a ton of books. You'll know her as the author or you'll know heard the movie, she wrote the Best Exotic Marigold Hotel. And she wrote that book, and it was made to movie with Judi Dench and Maggie Smith. And she also wrote Tulip Fever. So most of her novels are focused on contemporary family life. You know, this book I thought I will say is, when I heard about it, it reminded me so much of the girl with the pearl earrings. So that was a huge bestseller, and it made me very interested. But anyway, this book was set in 17th century Amsterdam. And as the name suggests, it is talks about the city in the grip of Tulip Fever. And I didn't know this, but till I read this book, tulips were actually imported from Turkey, and they became wildly popular during this time. And a rare bulb could be cost be worth more than horses, homes, and gold combined. Kind of like cryptocurrency

Geoff Mair: 7:31

seems a lot like cryptocurrencies which are going on right now. You know, they're only worth what, you know, people think they're worth you know, it's like, something's worth what somebody's willing to pay for it. And in Tulip Fever days, people are willing to pay a lot for tulips, even though they don't have a ton of inherent value. Kinda like I think cryptocurrencies are, but the verdicts still out on cryptocurrencies? I guess we'll see how that pans out in the long run.

Unknown: 8:01

So, yeah, I was just astounded by that. But anyway, so what this book is about the main character, Sophia, she's in a loveless marriage with a widower named a very wealthy widower named coordinate Cornella Cornella. Cornelis, and he is pepper rich. Do you want to explain to everybody what pepper riches?

Geoff Mair: 8:22

Yeah, we were we were on a tour in Amsterdam. And our guide was talking about pepper rich, and that's a phrase that's used in you know, Holland, Dutch culture. And it means someone who's extremely rich, it's the old, the, you know, the 1% of the 1% are called Pepper rich. And the reason they're called Pepper rich is because pepper corns and spice trading made a lot of very wealthy people back in the 1700s. So it's a phrase and Cornelis in this book is, is a peppercorn magnate.

Unknown: 8:58

So he, what Cornelis does is he commissioned a young artist Yan to paint him and his beautiful bride. And the artist is very handsome. And I don't give spoilers in this podcast, but you can guess what might take place. And so, okay, will spoil it and say that Yan and Sophia fall in love. So that's kind of the story of the book. And I loved it, it was very rich in detail. You really got a sense of, you know, the kinds of things that they wore the inside of their houses are kind of dashing in and out of, you know, the canals. And as we were visiting there, just brought everything to life, because it's not that big of the city. So there's, you kind of they say, Oh, we're on the Herengracht Oh, you know where that is, and all the different places and we kind of made a joke. We were there. Everything's like 15 minutes apart. It wasn't done. That happened every day, he could walk anywhere in 20 minutes. We're like, Oh, we're going to this museum. Oh, that's a 15 minute walk. Yeah. So it's very manageable that way. But the other thing that was really cool in this book, so I'll show just because he's here. Throughout it, there's a series of, of actual paintings, like they've little pictures, reproductions of paintings from all around the world, at different museums, but they're Dutch little masterpiece, kind of classic ones of, you know, a woman in shadow or woman in lights under reading a letter that we don't know what it says under a window. And it really forms kind of the skeleton of this book, and you kind of get the sense that she's picked these, these pictures, and then build a story around it. And with in that vein, I just wanted to read one passage that sort of explains the whole thing about these pictures. And I will say, and this is kind of as we've been traveling, if it makes sense, and we know this, but when you see famous artwork, it's usually done of the upper classes, because that's who commissioned it or who's willing to pay for it. And you kind of that that is brought to life, particularly in this and it

Geoff Mair: 11:17

was kind of often done as propaganda, it was them promoting themselves or promoting and, and in the movie, that's sort of why he's, he's commissioning the painting

Unknown: 11:28

to show their wealth or

Geoff Mair: 11:30

that they is very hot bride

Unknown: 11:32

is very hot bride. So I just want to read this passage that talks about the importance of these pictures. And it says, and hanging in 1000 homes, paintings mirror back the lives that are lived there. A woman plays the virginal she catches the eye of the man beside her. A handsome young soldier lifts the glass to his lips. His reflection shines in the silver top to canter, a maid gives her mistress a letter, the mirrored moments are still suspended in aspect. For centuries to come. People gaze at these paintings and wonder what is about to happen. That letter, what does it say to the woman who stands at the window? The sunlight streaming onto her face? Is she in love? Will she throw with a letter? Or will she obey it, waiting until the house is empty and stealing out through the rooms that recede? Bathed in shafts of sunshine at the back of the painting? So

Geoff Mair: 12:27

that does a very good job of describing, you know, Dutch master paintings. It's pretty neat.

Unknown: 12:32

Yeah. And I just, I thought, this book, if you're into historical fiction, I would run and get this book.

Geoff Mair: 12:41

So I have a question for you. Was it? Do you feel like it was primarily a romantic book about the romance? Or was it more about, you know, Tulip Fever and the tulip market and all that stuff?

Unknown: 12:54

I think it was the equally both, which is what appealed to me. I think it was very much. Both.

Geoff Mair: 13:01

Okay. Good answer.

Unknown: 13:02

Yeah. So it wasn't Yeah, it certainly wasn't, you know, you can read books where it's really a romance and they've just kind of sketched in some history to make or break it. Yeah, a bodice Ripper or whatever. And I that was not what was happening here at all. It was kind of equally both. Okay. Okay, so tell us about the movie. Well, I

Geoff Mair: 13:25

really actually enjoyed the movie, I thought it was a lot of fun. But I think it's largely because I watched the movie while we were in Amsterdam. And it really helped set a bunch of historical context. And I think the movie does a great job of kind of recreating the place and time, you know, of this historical novel. The sets are amazing, the costumes are incredible. There's great art direction. So it's really you get immersed in it in that, you know, in that way. There's sort of two romantic relationships, the main one, which is between the wife of Cornelis and the and the artist, and I think that that romantic relationship kind of falls flat. I think the acting and it's not that great. But there's a second sort of, I'll call it a downstairs relationship with her handmaiden and a fishmonger. And that one's actually really steamy and it's fun, and it's totally believable, and you can totally buy into those two, you know, being historical characters in in Amsterdam at the time. You know, I think the romantic sort of first half of the movie is all about the romances. The second half of the movie falls apart a bit, it gets much more into the detail of tulip trading and you know, somebody it just gets a lot into the tulip trade. And it just, it's not totally believable. You know, they Have Zach Galifianakis playing a sort of Shakespearean comedic character, and who has to deliver tulips in, you know, kind of a very stressful situation. And that just that part doesn't really work. But I still really, I still really enjoyed it. The part that really struck me while I was watching it is that they spent a lot of money on this movie. And I kind of was wondering, well, like who's going to watch? Like, how are they going to get that many viewers for historical fiction movie about Holland. And they didn't, you know, the movie was a flop playing actually. It gross $9 million, and they spent$25 million. So apparently there's not as big a market as they thought there was. Because I think they probably overspent a bit. But I really enjoyed it. It was fun. But it didn't get great reviews overall.

Unknown: 15:57

No, I saw that. I'm thinking they probably did that. Because um, so The Girl with a Pearl Earring came out the same year, the book did. They're both options right away. And then this movie didn't pick was picked up by Spielberg. And then it was picked up by Harvey Weinstein had all kinds of problems. That's not uncommon. You know, a lot of movies just don't end up getting made or they take longer. But I wonder if they didn't invest a lot because of the success of a girl with pearl earring, which came out earlier? Oh, no, they

Geoff Mair: 16:26

invested a lot. Yeah. So

Unknown: 16:27

I think that was that was a huge step. That was a big book and movie. Oh, okay. Yeah. And so I think that, and I think many people, most people listening will know that book. But that was by Tracy Chevalier A, and it was about that very famous picture. You know, the one where it's the it's a made with like a turban on her head. And she's like,

Geoff Mair: 16:49

looking back at the fictional story behind this

Unknown: 16:53

fictional film, she's got this kind of, it's almost like the Mona Lisa. And that she's got this like, in a manic look on her face. And she's looking out at you, the viewer. And she, I think she had had two checks. I think my mom gave me this as a gift. She had like a one dark pearl. And when light pearl earring, I have to check that I'll check that. But anyway, and she's looking out at the at the viewer, and you're kind of wondering, what's her story? And then that's what this book is about, or what the book was about. Anyway, I have a feeling that that's why they invested. But I would say, don't lie, you can see the movie sounds like the movies. Okay.

Geoff Mair: 17:39

If you like historical movies, I think it's worth two hours.

Unknown: 17:44

Okay. The book was excellent. If if you're into historical fiction, if you're into historical fiction, as good as anyone I've ever read. Yeah, if you're not, then might skip it. But I really liked it. So okay, so that's that book. Now let's, let's move over and talk about the dinner, which is totally different. It's contemporary. And okay, that book is written by Herman Koch. And it was written in 2009. And it takes place, it's a contemporary book, and it's set in a high end restaurant in Amsterdam. And I really liked how it was divided up, the whole thing takes place between two couples sitting at this high end restaurant, and there's a ton of they seemed like perfect couple. It turns out, it's Paul's with Paul and Claire, and Serge in bed that and Paul and Serge are brothers and they don't like each other. And Serge is a very famous politician, he's actually going to be running for prime minister. So he's getting a lot of attention in this restaurant, in addition to that, so then there's this conflict, kind of, you know, simmering conflict between Paul and Serge, but they seem perfect, and they're not. And I'd call it a domestic thriller. So kinda has a lot of things that I really like. But what what it is, is both of them, they each well, one has two sons, and one has one, and one son from each family. The two myths, Michelle and Rick have gotten together and committed a terrible crime that was captured on video. And the public doesn't know that it's them. And so these two couples are meeting and they've decided they have to meet at this dinner, even though this happened a while back and discuss what are we going to do about it? So that is what the book is about. And really what it is it's a commentary on choosing family over what is right and the author's presenting themes of politics, wealth, privilege, the working class, and the homeless. And this book is very I call it kind of Stark. And very, it's very dark. And first of all, the the narrator is Paul Paul Loman. And he's unreliable, which we're getting more and more used to. But he's also very unlikable. In fact, almost all the characters in this book are unlikable. And it was hugely popular in Europe. And I read a review that said, Europeans are very comfortable. With people not being likeable. We're North Americans tend to really like that. And except for an example that deviates from that is Bret Easton. Ellis is American Psycho. And that's kind of an exception. And then I guess, Gone Girl, like, I mean, that's the unreliable narrator. Yeah, that's another good example of that book. And so do you feel like

Geoff Mair: 20:58

the book did a good job of capturing sort of Amsterdam and kind of like the feel of it?

Unknown: 21:06

More? More behind closed doors, right. Okay. The more the more the more of the way people think. And one of the things that kind of came up a lot is people's uncomfortableness with privilege and wealth, and kind of how they care about it, but they don't want to be perceived to care about it. Like I think there's a humility in that culture. Yeah. So yeah, I don't know, there was there. I mean, we talked they talk about the setting, but I think it's more more about what people their political thoughts, and their thoughts on class, their thoughts on homelessness. So just kind of a dip into kind of the inner workings of, of the country. So I really liked it. I thought it was stark. Now the question is, I don't know if I would have liked it so much if I wasn't traveling there because I was really keen to learn more. And this is not a typical genre that I would have chosen. I think you would really liked this book,

Geoff Mair: 22:16

maybe give it a try. I

Unknown: 22:17

think so. But okay, so tell everyone about the movies. It sounds like the movie was different than the book.

Geoff Mair: 22:23

The movie sort of loosely followed the plot. But I would say that's all it really did. You know, the movies first big missed was it actually wasn't set in Holland. Oh, it was set somewhere in Pennsylvania, presumably Philadelphia, you know, one of the main characters is running for governor. They visit Gettysburg, because one of the big themes in the movie anyway is sort of like fighting for your beliefs, both in family and in society. And so they sort of try to use Gettysburg as a metaphor for that, but it doesn't really work. You know, like the book, they they structure the story around the meal, you know, the courses of a meal, and in a fancy restaurant, but they don't do well, you know? And

Unknown: 23:17

did they kind of stop and say, like, have something come on the screen and say main course they

Geoff Mair: 23:21

do do that. And then they'll they do and actually the scenes where they're, you know, serving the food are great to watch. They're, they're rich, and the food looks amazing. And they're, you know, that's probably the best part of the movie is like the very short segments where they're serving food because I enjoy that. But really, the whole structure of of course, as the meal falls apart, most of because the movie has to, you know, go into the characters go into so many sidebar conversations that they are unnaturally away from the table. So it doesn't really the meal doesn't really flow and they're going into you know, they're sort of looking back in time and, and getting the backstories on the character. So I really fall I feel like the structure of the course of the meal falls apart pretty badly. And so the result of that is actually quite boring. And it really kind of meanders on. You don't really love any of the characters. I mean, it's got great actors. It's got Richard Gere. It's got Laura Linney. It has the actor from the trip. What's his name again?

Unknown: 24:33

Steve Coogan.

Geoff Mair: 24:36

Yeah, that's right. Which I love. I love the trip. I think it's a great movie. Steve gig, it's totally fine. But

Unknown: 24:42

he's a comedian. I thought he was a comedian.

Geoff Mair: 24:44

Yeah, in this in this one. He's doing drama. And I think he doesn't okay job of it. It's just the direction and the plot, just and the whole narrative doesn't really work together.

Unknown: 24:59

Let me ask you Do you feel the need, you need to like your main character?

Geoff Mair: 25:05

I don't need to like them, but I have to be interested in them. So, you know, I love characters that are kind of dark and disturbed. And you know, they can be sort of I love anti heroes, but there's no anti heroes here. They're just kind of distasteful and not very likable characters who are bickering a lot and dinner and bickering a lot, you know, in the sort of looking back in time. And so you don't really care about a characters and the plot really sort of meanders along. And, you know, the ending, they tried to wrap all these different things together and close it all up in like the last sort of 10 or 15 minutes of the movie. And they do a really poor job to the point where, you know, I finished watching it, I was like, Oh, am I missing something? Like, I don't really get it. And so I went back and watched it again. And I wasn't missing anything. It just, it just really didn't work. I won't, I won't say how it ended. But I found it just the ending super confusing, and the movie just not engaging. I would not recommend it at all.

Unknown: 26:17

Okay, well, that. Yeah, I think then we did, I would say ditch the movie, read the book. But I would say that about almost anything.

Geoff Mair: 26:26

I actually, I think I might read the book, because I actually think the story sounds interesting and addresses a lot of sort of societal stuff that is kind of fascinating. And I liked that aspect of Dutch culture. So but the movie did it badly. And it wasn't even about Dutch culture. So that's where they really missed.

Unknown: 26:45

Well, I it was the I love that. It's it's a thriller, but it's but it's not as well. It's a it's I love, I found it. I loved it, I thought was great. Definitely a departure from what I would normally read. And I would think it would be your kind of book, I would say. Okay, anything else you want to say about either?

Geoff Mair: 27:09

No, I think that's it. I've I really enjoyed Holland, it was fun, you know, hearing about the books and watching movies.

Unknown: 27:17

Okay, so we're gonna come back in a couple of weeks with books that we will. We'll both have read books this time, right? You're gonna read

Geoff Mair: 27:24

reading a couple books that I think will be very entertaining for our listeners.

Unknown: 27:29

Okay, so we're reading, we're gonna be reading different books. We have. Yeah, and. Okay, so should we tell them what they are? Doing? Okay, what do you what do you?

Geoff Mair: 27:40

Well, Amy, when you asked me to, you know, read a book by a French author. The only French author I've ever heard of or know anything about is Anna, East Nene. So I'm reading two books. I'm reading Henry and June. And I'm also reading Delta Venus. So I'm very excited to discuss those two books. And so far, I'm enjoying them.

Unknown: 28:09

Okay, I'm keeping my my PG rating. So that's the only thing I have to worry, I won't get into too much. Oh, you have to keep them broad strokes. And then my mom sometimes listens to the podcast. So your mom doesn't know you're making me nervous. But I'm going to be talking about Jacqueline in Paris, which is really good. I'm listening to that audio. And it's about its historical fiction about the one year that Jacqueline Kennedy spent her junior year abroad in Paris and what her life was like then, and perfect for walking the streets of Paris. With and I'm also reading her my mom's suggestion. It's called murder and Clichy, and it's by Kara black. And it's really fun. So far, kind of cozy mystery. And what this woman does is she is I think she's actually American. But she writes, thrillers said in each around his mom's in Paris, so fun, and so it's fun. So I'm enjoying that as well. So much more wholesome, I think, then what I'm reading while you're reading. So anyway, with that, I want to thank everybody for tuning in to the latest edition of the read from Book Review, and we'll see in a few weeks. Awesome. Thanks again for having me. Okay. Thanks, Jeff. Goodbye. Thanks so much suggests for joining me back on the podcast. And I want to encourage everyone to come back in a couple of weeks to hear us talk about all things Paris. And in the meantime, I wanted to remind you that the genie book box with book warehouse is still available. You can get it through book warehouse.ca Or you can go on my website. ate at Redfern book review.com. And it includes a copy of Jimmy by Shane right and, and book box retails for $32. And the book is signed. And there's also some fun gifts and surprises inside. So anyway, just wanted to let you know about that and it's a perfect holiday gift for mom for friends or for yourself. And there's still a couple of book boxes in earlier seasons available so you could get all three for a friend and all three retail for a million dollars. So thank you so much and I will talk to you later. Bye