Mountain Runaways

Award-winning Young Adult fiction novelist Pam Withers stops by the podcast to discuss her latest book Mountain Runaways. This fast-paced novel tells the story of the three kids, Jon, Korka and Aron, who lose their parents in an avalanche and decide to run away into the mountains and fend for themselves until the oldest sibling, Jon, turns 18 and can become their legal guardian. They have to deal with illness, injury, wild animals and each other.
Pam talks about why YA fiction has such crossover appeal and how to get boys to read. She has created the website www.yadudebooks.ca as a resource for young male readers and is the author of Jump Starting Boys: Help Your Reluctant Reader Find Success in School and Life.

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Transcript

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I think that there's a lot of adults who like to read young adult books. And they're not just teachers and parents, I think the the plots are maybe a little bit simpler, but probably more important is that their endings tend to be happy. And I also think that all of us have an inner teen. And we'd like to think about those years when we were teens and free and wild and learning. And I think there's lots of reasons that young adult appeals to adults as well as. Hello, welcome back to the Red Fern book review. I am your host, Amy Mair. And today, I am joined by award winning author, Pam withers, who's a former journalist. And that's how I knew her many years ago, working downtown as a journalist in Vancouver. And in over the last 20 years, she has been focused on why a fiction, specifically targeted at Boys and have focused on adventure and the wilderness. And I was really interested in talking with her because I've been wanting to talk about the popularity of ye novels for a while, and how they may have changed over the years and also how they are very popular with adults as well. They're kind of a very popular crossover genre, and she has some thoughts around that. So, a little bit about Pam, she's written more than two dozen adventure books. She's also a boys literacy advocate. She speaks all around North America. And she's the co author of a book called jump starting boys help you're helping your reluctant learner find success in school and life. So now we're gonna move over and talk with Pam about her latest book, mountain runaways, which I loved, by the way, and what I thought was really unique about this book is it really straddles that line between being compelling authentic for young readers, not too preachy, but yet, I think any parent would also be okay with their kind of late elementary school, early high school reading. So now let's move over and talk with Pam. Hello, Pam, welcome to the podcast. I'm so honored to be here. So in fact, this is the second time we've recorded we had we recorded last week in it, I had a bit of a technology malfunction. So thank you so much for coming back for round two. Okay, so I wanted to start out by asking you, when you first started writing your books, you knew you want to write about sports and the wilderness, but you didn't know that you were going to be writing YA novels per se. So how did you decide on ya as your genre of choice? Okay, so I misspent my life as a kayaker. So I knew that my first book was going to be about kayaking. I found myself unemployed for a year, we were living overseas, and I wasn't allowed to work in that country. So I decided to keep myself out of trouble by writing a novel. I imagined that, you know, in my naive mind, I imagined that only kayakers were going to read it. And I knew from experience that most kayakers were young guys. And so I decided I needed to write for young guys, and not knowing it was going to turn into a series of 10 books and that lots of girls were going to enjoy it too. So I just tripped into young adults in that way, and my son was 10 years old at the time, so I was kind of writing it for him. And I would read each chapter to him at night for his bedtime story. And like all kids trying to delay their bedtime, he'd say, why don't you just read me one more chapter? And I'd say no, because I haven't written it yet. And you in fact, you were actually writing this book at the hockey rink while your son was playing. It is did he were you actually watching the game or how did you do that? i He complained that I wasn't always looking when he scored a goal but I told him I always looked up right before he scored a goal. But yes, I was right. I wrote a lot of it in the chili hockey rink stands while He was at practice. So I wanted to talk with you about boys and reading. And I've raised two boys, myself, and everyone knows for I think all children with all the distractions available to them, it's hard to get them to read more than ever. So what do you think are the unique challenges for getting young kids and specifically boys reading, um, I think, first of all, you have to limit their electronic time that goes for both boys and girls. And that takes some strong parenting, we ourselves had a rule that he was only allowed half an hour of electronic time per day, but he could earn more electronic time by reading. So if he read for half an hour, he could earn another 15 minutes of TV time or whatever he wanted. That's, you know, that was just our way. It's really important, especially for guys that they see guys reading. So if they have dads or uncle's or reading, buddy, it's really important that they that they witnessed that it's okay to read if you're a guy. And the genres that guys read, written lots of articles on that. And there is a book on that I have a not for profit website called ya, which stands for young adult, dude books.ca. And that has lots and lots of book reviews, the books that are of interest to guys as well as interviews with male authors. So and some female authors too. So that answer your question, it did well, and you know, we talked before what I thought was interesting. So when I was getting my boys reading, I would read them, books that I had loved, and they weren't buying it for the most part. And a lot of those books that I read, and you would have read, some of them were from like, the early 20th century, and they just were too slow. They call them old timey. And then you and then the new books, sometimes they bothered me, because it just seemed like there had to be an explosion on every page in order to get them to read. So I think what I thought was interesting is you talked about looking at nonfiction as a choice and don't necessarily start out with fiction with the boys because they love that. Can you tell talk more about that. So educated women, whether they are teachers, or moms tend to over push fiction on boys and forget that nonfiction is just as legit for getting kids comfortable with reading and enjoying reading. Guinness Book of World Records is the number one choice for guys. And also, I think a lot of women tend to over micromanage their kids on what they're reading, oh, no, that has a bit of violence in it, he can't read that. And there comes to the point where the kid can, you know, doesn't have anything to read that he enjoys that will turn him on to reading. So that's what librarians are for librarians, I worship librarians, they're great at choosing the books that will connect with kids. So that's one thing I really liked about your book was you really balanced that line, like, as a parent, you can read it and think, Oh, I'd be totally happy if my kid read this. But I think the young, like a young, like a late elementary, early high school kid will find it speaks to them. Like there's some there is violence there is like, you know, they're kind of mad at the world at points, like, how do you balance that? Like, how do you find that balance? Well, um, okay, so I raised a boy. And I also ran a summer camp for six years teaching mostly boys how to kayak. So I kind of think I understand this slightly warped minds of preteens and teens, and especially those who like the outdoors. So how do I balance having a bit of violence actually, I don't have much violence, most of my violence does nature, you know, whether it's avalanches or whatnot. But I do think that books these days need to be more have lots of action and tension. Compared with books generations ago, look at what kids are watching on TV, look at how everything's just faster paced. So I think that they will get bored with something that is too slow paced. At least the kids that I write for, and me myself. So when you go you go into the schools often and you'll do readings and meet with the kids. And you've been doing this for probably as long as you've been writing these books about 20 years. So how have you noticed that the readers and the kids have changed change in either maybe the questions that they're asking you, or the kinds of things that they're looking for? Or is or is it the same? They definitely want more diversity. I've heard that in the schools from the kids themselves. They don't you know, they want the characters to reflect their world. I just think, you know, it's kind of like us, like asking, What do women want? Well, you know, what, woman, so, you know, they're all different kids, like different genres, like different, like different types of thoughts. So I just write what I do, which is, you know, outdoor sports and an action and lots of fun. I like to put humor in my books, but some of them are dark as well. So the kids who like that kind of stuff, congregate around my books, but I don't think that we can generalize too much. Okay, so why don't you go ahead and tell us about the plot for mountain runaways? Okay, so three kids who are okay, I better remember this correctly, 1711, and 14. They are orphans when their parents are killed in an avalanche. And they believe that social services is going to separate them into different homes. And so they run away into the wilderness and try to survive until the oldest turns 18 So that he can then be their guardian. And of course, three siblings, hey, I grew up as one of six siblings. So I'm an world's expert on sibling rivalry. And things can fall apart quickly when you're on a camping trip with one bossy guy one over assertive one of the feminist 14 year old and one space cadet 11 year old. So yeah, and plus they have problems with getting enough food and safety and bears and search and rescue people lose searching for them and weird person that they meet in the wilderness is is also hiding away. So lots of lots of potential there for action and interest and attention. And you get so specific about the animals and the food that they're eating. And that's the first time I'd ever heard of him again. Can you tell people what that is. And I really hope I don't ever have to eat it to dry meat that's ground into powder and mixed with fat. And it lasts a lot longer than jerky, which are strips of meat dried in the sun. And so therefore, it's a good thing to have on a wilderness trip where you don't have much you can't carry much weight and you need sustenance. The reason that I Okay, so there's two things that helped me a huge amount on the survival information. One is that I ran across the former ranger for the area in which this is set, which is northern Alberta. And his name was Rob k. So he was arranged there for his he was national park board and there for years and years. And he happened to write a book called Born to be Wild, which I ran across. And then I contacted him and he worked with me on all the scenes he helped me figure out what elevation they were at how they would steal, steal food from wild animals, how they would, you know, catch a catch a rabbit everything. So he was really helpful. And then also I ran across a book a very old book called Nature is your guide by Harold Getty. And that was the original inspiration for this book because I thought how cool is this that he knew to like drop bark pieces in the water as like a Hansel and Gretel grid trail to find his way back, I learned all kinds of tricks in there that were you know, not before technology gave us survival skills. And I assume this Ranger was also a beta reader, like when he read some that what you wrote, did he make can you remember anything specific that he had you change? I don't know if I remember anything specific. But he certainly was not only the person that I interviewed to write the scenes, but then he read the scenes and edit them to make sure that they were authentic. And authenticity is so important to me. I guess as a former journalist, I almost enjoy interviewing people and researching more than the writing itself. And I certainly do a lot of research to make my books authentic. And if somebody does get lost in the wilderness, I'd like to think they they might actually remember something that I heard in the book. So talk about I think this scene you're going to read is the most dramatic scene in the book and you're gonna do a reading now why don't you set this up for everybody? Okay, so this is the scene where the kids steal some loose meat from some wool also kill it for them and again this is Rob told me that this was perfectly authentic that kids could have done this however he doesn't recommend that they do it Okay, so we're gonna start with the sister is the fire engine protector she asked trembling slightly as the moose goes down then struggles up the wolf staring at him all the time are the wolves going to kill us next? wolves don't attack people. John says not even if we steal their kill. As long as we have fire sticks, John thrusts the tips of the sticks into the fire. His siblings stare at him as the moose falters and plunges into the snow again kicking loudly as the wolves at the wolves pouncing on him. The snow under the moose begins to turn red. Now John orders picking up one of the long sticks and raising its flaming and like a torch. With his other hand, he grabs the cold bone handle of his hunting knife. Though his insides are shaking, he lifts his face, squinting his eyes and juts out his chin in an attempt to look fearless so that his siblings will follow suit. A wolf strongest sense of smell and it can smell fear. Corker and Aaron exchanged looks and pick up the other two flaming sticks. John grabs a clean t shirt from his pack and pushes it into his rear waistband before marching straight to the bloody scene with Corca and Aaron following him, the wool snarl but back up as he gets closer, the loose is still kicking a little Argh, he shouts at the wolves shaking his fire stick out them. Later Corker will ask what kind of sound was that you thought you were a pirate? But not but now the wolf scurrying off their prize to the edge of the meadow. It's three wolves against three humans with a fire sticks and human aggression being the deciding factors and who wins. That is how they capture a moose from a wolf pack. That is very dramatic. I was I think that's a really good example of just that creating that tension. Okay, so the other end and another couple questions. Oh, I know you are nominated for an award for this book. So tell us tell us about that. That nomination. I was nominated for a chocolate Lilly award. And the best thing about that as award is that if you win it, you actually get a chocolate. And so you'll have to check back next year as to whether it wins. I've also been nominated for chocolate Lily for truckers Canyon, and surf zone and peak survival. And I've won red maple awards for stowaway trackers Canyon and first ascent and I'm most proud of my international silver novelist awards for parkour Club, which is my favorite book and first ascent. Why is parkour club your favorite book? It's the edgiest. It deals with Islamophobia. And it has a very diverse array of characters. And I actually wrote it with a Muslim woman. And yeah, so it has terrorists in it. And it has parkour in it. And parkour, which is kind of like gymnastics is very, very popular with kids. And they're the ones that asked me to write a parkour book. So it sounds like you've probably maybe stretched like learn more than you. Like you have a lot of base knowledge on the outdoors. And this was maybe stretching you to do more research for that. Is that right? That's right, every book is a bigger stretch than the last one. But yeah, again, I like to keep them realistic. And I'm hoping that kids get something out of them more than just the sport action. You know, one thing I really want to know is why do you think why fiction is such a popular crossover genre with adult readers today? A lot, you'll see a lot of people just picking up a book that you think would be for a 13 to 15 year old, but they want to read that. But you mean why do people sit on buses with their young adult book hidden between the covers of a magazine? So because they're adults, and they're reading a young adult book? Yeah, asking for a friend. I think that the I think that there's a lot of adults who like to read young adult books, and they're not just teachers and parents. I think the plots are maybe a little bit simpler, but probably more important is that they, their, their endings tend to be happy. And I also think that all of us have an inner teen. And we'd like to think about those years when we were teens and free and wild and learning and I think there's lots of reasons that young adult appeals to adults as well as young adults. And what and I wanted to end by asking What are you working on next? I have just finished a caving novel set in tasas was are set in northwestern Vancouver Island. And that was a lot of research, especially since I'm claustrophobic and don't really like caving myself. But yeah, I saw I finished the painting book. And it's in the pipeline now. And hang on for more news on that. So another question, I want to ask you kind of online to that earlier point about balancing, creating a book that appeals to children and two adults. You I feel like you kind of sneak in some lessons and some morals in there. But it's not preachy, because no, no child or teen is going to read your book, if it's preachy. So how do you get away with that? And yeah, what's again, what's that line? It's a very fine line. And I think you have to be very perceptive, and you have to be in touch with teenagers in order to walk that fine line. Teenagers are absolutely allergic to preachiness in their books. And I see a lot of books that don't get that. So to me, my, my number one goal is to entertain them and get them reading, get them to love reading, get them to enjoy the book, if I have a secondary goal, if I have a if I have some kind of little moral lesson or two in there, whether it's anti racism, or environmentalism, or whatever, it has to be snuck in, as you put it, it has to be a secondary goal. And I can tell if an author's writing with a primary goal of preaching, and I'm pretty sure teenagers can sniff it out long before me. So again, I think as long as you have your priorities straight, and are in touch with teens, and how they talk and how they read, that you can do that. I thought, though, I mean, the big lesson with the kids in this book was just how much how much they love and care about each other, even though they're squabbling half the time, I think they really realized that in the end, and I thought I thought that needed to change a little in order to get along and work together. And I think that was the primary lesson in there is that you need to be more sensitive to each other and respect each other in order to pull together and if you don't pull together, things can go back. Oh, one final another final question. Mountain runaways is a standalone book. And I have observed that it seems very popular for children's and young adult books to be series. And so kind of is that your decision? Is that the publisher? Like how does and which which do you like better? There? Well, my first book was raging river, and I naively pitched it as the first in a series, and they call my bluff and did want a series. So I wrote my first 10 books as part of a series. And then I had the opportunity to start doing stand alones, which was my decision. So writing a series is great financially for both the author and the publisher. And it's nice for fans, and it's great for building your credibility as an author. But I personally think that once I finished the series, and was able to write for a slightly older audience, slightly more complex books, and not connected with a previous book that there was more creative license and more fulfilling for me, so I've stuck with standalone since then. Okay, that makes sense. Well, thanks so much, Pam. And I really appreciate this time, that was fun to be on your program, which I think is fantastic, and all the best with your ongoing career. Okay, thank you. Bye, bye. Thanks so much to Pam for coming on the podcast. You know, that was really interesting when she mentioned that women and maybe sometimes teachers focus on reaching boys through fiction, when what they really want is nonfiction. And I remember when my boys were quite young, you know, reading them books, like picture books, like with diggers and garbage and all that kind of stuff. And, and I did also read them the Guinness Book of World Records, but I think as soon as they were able to start reading, I focused on fiction. And that's interesting that it doesn't really matter. Like what you want is you want to get them engaged. So that was kind of cool. And again, the book is Mountain runaways. And I will also put the links to her website on encouraging boys to read. It's white dudes.com. So, anyway, thanks so much for listening and I'll talk to you later.