Fantasy Fiction enthusiast David Gates joins Amy in a discussion about Natasha Pulley's The Kingdoms. This is the story of Joe Tournier who arrives in the city of Londres in the French Colony of England in 1898 with no memory of who he is and how he got there. When Joe steps off a train he has a postcard in his pocket written in forbidden English, with a postmark dated 1805 though it inexplicably bears the image of a recently-constructed lighthouse. Joe’s search for his identity leads him to the Outer Hebrides and back and forth through stone portals that take him on a dangerous quest to reunite with his family without changing the course of history—or erasing his own existence. Amy and Dave discuss the pros and cons of audio books and when it is ok to throw in the towel on a book.
Books and Resources discussed:
The Kingdoms by Natasha Pulley The Watchmaker of Filigree Street by Natasha Pulley The Bedlam Stacks by Natasha Pulley The Phantom Tollbooth by Norton Juster The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch Munro's Books Store, Victoria, B.C. The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell N.K. Jeminsin, author Succession, HBO Schumacher, Netflix LuLaRich, Amazon
Amy interviewed David's wife Jill Schmelke in Season 1, episode 4. To hear that interview click here: A Light in the Dark
Fantasy Fiction enthusiast David Gates joins Amy in a discussion about Natasha Pulley's The Kingdoms. This is the story of Joe Tournier who arrives in the city of Londres in the French Colony of England in 1898 with no memory of who he is and how he got there. When Joe steps off a train he has a postcard in his pocket written in forbidden English, with a postmark dated 1805 though it inexplicably bears the image of a recently-constructed lighthouse. Joe’s search for his identity leads him to the Outer Hebrides and back and forth through stone portals that take him on a dangerous quest to reunite with his family without changing the course of history—or erasing his own existence. Amy and Dave discuss the pros and cons of audio books and when it is ok to throw in the towel on a book.
Books and Resources discussed:
The Kingdoms by Natasha Pulley The Watchmaker of Filigree Street by Natasha Pulley The Bedlam Stacks by Natasha Pulley The Phantom Tollbooth by Norton Juster The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch Munro's Books Store, Victoria, B.C. The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell N.K. Jeminsin, author Succession, HBO Schumacher, Netflix LuLaRich, Amazon
Amy interviewed David's wife Jill Schmelke in Season 1, episode 4. To hear that interview click here: A Light in the Dark
What's the deal with fantasy fiction? Why? Why are you Why is the genre of choice two great way to meet girls? Really? Oh yeah. In high school when you're carrying around a big thick book that had dragons and knights, the popular girls are all over your football team. Hello. Welcome back to the red Fern. I am your host, Amy Mair. And today, I'm joined by my pal, David gates, who is going to talk with us about his favorite genre, fantasy fiction. And so I just want to welcome you. Hello, Dave. Thank you for having me. Look forward to this. And but but before we jump into this, I did just want to do a bit of a segue. David has a background in politics. And at the time that we're doing this recording something big has happened in Canada over the past week. And, David, I was just wondering if you could weigh in on it was an election took place for our Canadian listeners and also for our international listeners. So we have to, could you put this into perspective, Dave, but what happened? Yeah, the big event is also called the big nothing. Okay, so we had a parliamentary election where parliamentary system like Britain, and basically we had a minority government, it was called by pretty boy named Justin Trudeau. Yeah, I call them JT right Trudeau not Timberlake. And anyway, big election during a pandemic way for going through the whole country. And the result, actually, was they got the exact same number of seats as they did in the past parliament, almost every party. So that's quite interesting, in that, if you looked at the opposition parties, this was probably one of their best chances to make some gains, given people's fury about the pandemic, having this election. Yet even with that, and one of the parties the New Democratic Party, which is the most far left party, yeah, spent a record sums of money by the young, attractive leader. Yeah. And they actually only gained one seat after all that effort. So it makes you think, like, in the medium to long term, is this going to be the status quo for Canadian politics? federally? What do you think? Yeah, I do. Cuz I think you're gonna see the opposition parties, the Conservative Party, and I think you're gonna vote to see a civil war happening there. A lot of bloodletting. That's their tradition. Yeah. And the NDP is too broke to have a leadership convention. So they're going to have the status quo, right. So I think the liberals, you know, they're sitting pretty even though they're minority position. So, okay, so Okay, that's a good summary. And let's move over and talk about why we're here. And what happened was, I was talking with David and he knows I have this podcast. He's a listener. And I've made him listen to stuff. And he was talking about fantasy. So I got back to him. I said, Yes, I would love to have you on the podcast. And I gave him I assigned him a book to read. And that was, I did I assigned and something kind of interesting. But the book is called the kingdoms by Natasha pulley. But before we get into all of that, I just wanted to ask you what, what's the deal with fantasy fiction? Why? Why are you Why is the genre of choice? It's a great way to be girls. Really? Oh, yeah. In high school, when you're carrying around a big thick book that had dragons and knights. The popular girls are all over. Yeah. That's in the blood football team. No, actually, I knew you're gonna ask me that. So I looked up, probably my favorite quote. And it's from the great George RR Martin, who wrote Game of Thrones, right? Because I'm sure he faced this question and every male faces it's question 20. No, yeah. So this is how he defines it. The best fantasy is written in the language of dreams. It is alive his dreams are alive, more real than real for a moment at least that long magic moment before we wake. fantasy is silver and Scarlet indigo and as are obsidian veiled beamed with gold, and lapis lazuli. Reality is plywood and plastic done up in bud brown and olive drab. Okay, wow. I don't like fantasy, but now I think I might. That's pretty good. This is the best line. It's a bit longer, but I won't prolong it. But it's fantasy flies on the wings of Icarus reality on Southwest Airlines. So that's why I like fantasy. Now I think most of us because we're the same age, and all the great children's books. We read a lot of them, you know, The Chronicles of Narnia, The Phantom Tollbooth, that was fantasy. But then I didn't keep going with it. Right. So 52 I'm still good. So okay, if I hadn't made you read this book, what what would you have suggested or what? Tom, tell me about some of the books that you really enjoy? Well, this That's really funny because that kind of goes back to when he asked me to do this book. Okay. So I was in in Victoria when he asked me Yeah, went to that old bookstore, downtown Victor. Oh, Munro's Books. Yeah, it's amazing. It's an old bank building. If you haven't been there. It's incredible. Yeah. Anyway, so I got the book. Yeah. And I look at it. And the review. Like the endorsement, you know, how they have other authors endorse their books. Yeah. So the one that endorsed It was a woman by the name of Katherine Addison, who did The Goblin Emperor. Okay, not very good to have a copy of it. So this is backstory. So the week before, the week before you asked me to do this book, right? Yeah, I was at book warehouse, which is an indie store on Broadway. Yeah. in Vancouver. Yeah. funny name for independent bookstore, book warehouse. But anyway, okay. It's been like pearls delight or something. Yeah. And I had bought this to read and I had started reading it. So I got all excited about you asked me to read about Natasha Pulley. Oh, why did I take this is because it was in the employee recommendations, and they always have really cool choice. Yes, they do. Right. And this was endorsed by a guy named Scott Lynch, who wrote the Lies of Locke Lamora. Am I losing you? anyway? Anyways? That's like one of my favorite books. Yeah. So okay, yeah, there's like a train. So I was expecting, and I started doing this, and it's pretty good, but I still got a ways to go right? But Lies of Locke Lamora was a damn good book. Like really fun, too. I'm gonna put that in the show notes in case anybody's Yes. It is. The sequels to it. That's Gentleman Bastard Series are okay. But that first book is just a pleasure. So I got really pumped about reading The Kingdoms, right? Okay, so now, but when, okay, I'm just gonna put this out here. Both of us didn't like this book we're going to talk about and so this this, this presented a whole different whole set of things. But I think it's actually a worthwhile discussion. And one of the things David asked me, he's like, why, why did you choose this book? And I'm going to tell you the why I chose I chose it because we got talking and I thought, Okay, this he doesn't just like fantasy he likes like, I will, I was reading about different types of fantasy. And I think it's called high fantasy that you like, correct. And so I just thought people, it might be going to lead out of my without little out of my demo, and that people might not want to hear about hobbits and potions and all this stuff. And so I thought, what happens is I'm always looking to see what new books are coming out and this particular book, the kingdoms got a lot of buzz Yes. And, and got a lot of notice, and it's not something I would normally read or have a perspective on. I thought, that's, that's what we're gonna do. Good idea. But okay, so let's, why don't we just talk about the book, okay, so I'm gonna give a little bit, just an overview of what the books about and then we're gonna go from there. So this book, The Kingdoms, is written by Natasha Pulley. And it's a part historical novel time travel story, fantasy, and romance. And the genre that it specifically falls under. It's an alternate history novel, which is a form of speculative fiction in which a real historical event is resolved differently than it actually happened. And of course, that would mean it changes everything. And so to know, in this book, the setting what you do need to know. And this book, Napoleon conquers England in the Battle of Trafalgar, and therefore England is a colony of France. And then the other thing to know, because this is fantasy, there is a stone portal in the sea that serves as a passageway between centuries. So with that in mind, what the story is about, it's a complex story. It's about a guy named Joe Tournier. A, who arrives in the city of lawned, which is the French colony of England, in 1898. So that's London is London, and he but it's now in French, so it's lawned and he has no memory of who he is and how he got there. But he steps off the train. He's got a postcard in his pocket, and it the postcards in English which is forbidden and it's postmarked or eight You know, five, and what it says is Dears, Joe come home, if you remember, and it signed em. So then Joe thinks, you know what, I gotta get to the bottom of this, I have to find out who M is he feels like, this is going to be the key to his missing memory. And it leads them to the Outer Hebrides back and forth through these stone portals. And on a dangerous quest to reunite with his family without changing the course of history or erasing his own existence. So that's the setup. And then what tell us David, what what did you think? Well, and one important detail about that postcard is it actually was dated 90 years before he received it. All right, okay. Which made it even more perplexing, perplexing, okay, okay. So I mean, the story itself is I give her a lot of kudos for like, she's obviously a very accomplished writer, like you look at her biography. And you look at the reviews, a lot of people love this, but a lot of Kirkus, like all the big reviewers even very powerful reviews, how it's a page turner, right, the courage she showed. And in essence, it's more of a love story than anything else. Right, which again, was a stretch for me. Yeah, we're moving into a whole nother, let's talk love story. So anyway, so there's elements. So I give her a lot of credence for that. And also, I like writers that kind of play for keys like that, if they're going to, like, kill off a character or anything like that, I kind of always like that like to keep the pace of a story going and, and she's willing to do that, which is cool, right? But her writing style. It was really interesting. A couple of things. Her writing style is very sparse. Like she didn't really describe, she doesn't describe things like and it's probably on purpose. Like, I don't know if I don't think I'm telling tales out of school here. But Joe, he's reunited with his wife, right? in London. Right, right. And she's a very opaque character Alia here, she's a lot younger, and she's good looking. Right? But that's about it. Like he never, you never get to that next level of detail, which is so ironic, because the other books I was telling you about? Yeah, the thing about them their world building was the richness of the detail. Right? Yeah, she was the opposite, which I found really compelling. So it's, I guess it's a plot driven book, then maybe maybe plot but subtleties to like it was it was really tough to describe. But the story just cut Bob bouncing back and forth in the different areas, right. And so he had, it was really tough to know which ones were aligning with which ones which story arcs. To her credit, by the end, like when you you stopped reading it in the middle I did, which was the biggest slog, I quit the book, I have to end the reviews I've heard that have been a bit critical of the book have all sided the middle part, that it's a bit of a grind. And it was, and that's when I was like, that's when I texted you saying why. So anyway, tell her credit. To her credit she does. She does wrap it up into a very unique, compelling. That's what So the one thing and I'm like, oh, wow, I put it down because it said that the ending is satisfying. And that the love, there's a love story that fully develops. And so can you talk about either of those things without talking fully about them? Or can you give? Well, it's evident once you're in about the first 70 pages of a book that there is a homosexual element to it, right? So it's, it's it's kind of articulated with one relationship. And then it's kind of a recurring theme in the book, right, which, again, is a new homosexual love story is a new angle for my reading as well. Right? Right. But so there is that element to give her credit, she does a very effective job of building it up. And the ending is done so well, because it's not 100% expected. Okay, so I give her a lot of credit for the uniqueness of it. However, the real knowledge I have on it. And I think I ranted to you about this part. So I'm not going to give anything away. But to give you a sense, there's a scene like sometimes there's just gaps, right? Common Sense. Like I don't know where your editor was. Like, so I'm going to just describe it generally. So they're in a jail house in London, right. And this place she is described at length how what a fortress it is how hard it is to maneuver. Yeah. And they're in this room, where basically, the the characters are prisoners, right? Except and one is impersonating somebody else and has a gun with them. Okay, and this kind of villain is there. And he has a warden and a couple of guards there, right. So all of a sudden He's kind of getting on to what they're up to. So one of the characters kills him. Okay. So you're thinking, Okay, now what are they gonna do? Right? Like you're in the middle of this heavily fortress? prison, right? There's this Warden guy too. And a couple of other guards hanging out. Yeah. Yeah, this is the next caption after this happens. They were outside, outside just like that. There was a tailgate hose that led out to the top tiny cobbled Street, a port of call is above the gateway, the main entrance of the bad Bailey, excuse me. Might need a bit rude just asking, like how the hell if they get right on skis? Right? So that's when that's when the wheels fell off for you. Yes, I think so. Another thing that went wrong with this book, besides the fact, what we did was we both compromise Well, I actually made you compromise. So you weren't really reading, I should have let you be you. Because that would have been, you know, probably better. And then for me, I think what I've been trying to do is go outside different genres. But this may have just not been I'm glad I read it. Yeah, no, it's good. But you know what I did wrong. And I wish I had here and this is a lesson I wanted to say is that I did this book via audio. And that was the mistake. And so audio is new to me. I started the only reason why I started with audio is because I had to get more through more books once I started the podcast. But you can really only do audio with certain books. And this is too complicated. And the other thing on top of that almost everybody who's listening to audiobooks is doing something else. Yeah, I'm cooking, I'm cleaning, I'm driving, I'm whatever. So I'm only I'm not paying 100% attention, right? So what ended up happening? I didn't know if they were which portal they were if they were back and forth and the people and but it sounds like you still have that even reading it. I did. And I found I had to reread a lot of so I was starting to reread it and then I was like, You know what, and then and then I thought if I wasn't doing the podcast, I would have quit the book and then that's a whole nother conversation because some people never quit books. I believe you should if it doesn't work for you. Do you quit books? Yes. That's like that one. I mentioned that Locke lamora. Yeah, I loved the first book. And I was halfway through the second one. Yeah. And I was just kind of stick sick of the stick. I was just it just wasn't the right. It wasn't the freshness was gone. Yeah. And I quit halfway through. Yeah, I think I think it's okay to do that. And, but I did want to say like So a little bit about her. She's really young. Yes, she's 33. This is her fourth book. She's known for she wrote a book called The Watchmaker of Filigree Street and she wrote a book called Bedlam Stacks, and she's won a number of awards for her writing. This is her fourth novel. And if you go on Amazon, half the people gave this book five stars. Yeah. And then but the thing is, is the people that didn't like it kind of really didn't like it. So I think she, in a way, stick to your wheelhouse. She's writing for her fans. I think she's people who like this very specific genre. The one thing that she's been compared to David Mitchell and Cloud Atlas and I disagree i love that book. Did you read that book? No, I haven't. I know. So it's a really good book. It's a hard book but what it is is that the one with the movie came out it's a movie Yeah, it was a budget right? And the movie didn't do well. And I didn't actually see the movie but basically I read a long time ago but what it is is there's it's almost like there it's a short stories essentially and at the end or somewhere in each story it somehow connects with either the previous or the the previous one and like super super cool ways. Like it's really it's a great book, but it's anyway I just didn't think it was executed the same but So anyways, yeah, I read the plot summaries of the other books that she wrote Yeah, that was really curious. Yeah, too. Yeah. And the element that they had that they're just so unique This is unique it's so the storylines are like one of them I think is in like Victorian England. It has like mid Meiji Japanese guy of Northern Japan. Like, she's very creative, yet creative, bold, and also just, yeah, think that think someone might be at the door, but we're not gonna answer that. Anyway. I'm Natasha Pulley. I'm like mine. So I real y would just say it's more a matter of finding. I think s e has executed for those who wa t this kind of book mixing may e history and fantasy together. I think it might be a good pac, but it just didn't work for m Yeah, I think there's some people that would really like it for the ride. It is a ride. And it sounds like what I read when I was reading the reviews after everyone's like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe the ending I can't believe so it's it's a book that you need to stay. Hang on for the whole path. Yeah. And I got off and so that was kind of like the last 15% was really good. Really? I don't know. Maybe you have to read it though. After I have to read it. Okay, wait, so let's, what are you what are you reading right now? You're reading this book. So now I so now I'm flipping back to read The Goblin Emperor Yes. Because the one thing realized is, so I, most of th fantasy I've written has bee written by males. Because think predominantly right, a lo of fans are fantasy or male right? You know, you don't go t fantasy book clubs to meet girl generally. No. So anyway, s I've started to read this again It's called The Goblin Emperor Yeah, which may sound a bi geeky, but it's a very uniqu concept. And the irony of thi is that it is so rich in detail right? Her world building i polar opposite of Natasha Poli who is very sparse in her world Right, right. So I've starte this. It's okay. So far. Yeah, think it has a chance of gettin really good once. Yeah, righ now you're, she's describing th curtains of an event. Right? An once you get behind th curtains, I think this could ge really good, right? And th woman at book warehouse was jus freaking out about this book When I bought it. It's he favorite of all time, she wa totally geeking out with me. S yeah, so I'm encouraged wit that. So that's what I'm readin now Have you ever read any nk Jemison or do you know about her? No, she's a woman. Fantasy writer. Oh, what's up good. Okay, so but I haven't read her but I've just been hearing because another really popular one is Robin Hobb. Okay, she's a female writer and I went to white dwarf books. Do you know where that is? Westham? least I do. That's true. And wait, I don't know. What are they? What are they? They're only selling fantasy books. Yeah, they miss their specialty is like fantasy books. Oh my god. Okay. It's kind of like stepbrothers. When the guy only sings 1980s Billy goals. But anyway, that Yeah, they only sell fantasy books. Okay. And they've been there forever. They have. Yeah. And anyway, so when I, George RR Martin, I caught up to his books, and I was having withdrawal. Yeah, because it's taking them forever. That's a different story, but, and she said, Oh, read Robin hobb. Everybody loves Robin Hoff. And I said, Oh, wow. And I thought, in fact that this will be the first woman I've ever read and fantasy. So I started reading it, and I couldn't do it. I struggled. I read the first book. But then after that, I just couldn't wait. What's wrong with me? So anyways, that's why I'm excited about this one, because I this looks very promising to one by The Goblin Emperor. And the other thing I wanted to ask, I actually get a lot of book recommendations from your wife. And also TV show recommendation. So what do you guys watching right now? Anything? Anything good? Well, we're really looking forward to Succession. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's the second person who's come on the podcast to say that Oh, really? Oh, I like that one. Yeah, yeah. That's got good dynamics. Yeah, I mean, we also like watching documentaries, like there was one on and I'm forgetting the name, top of my head is photos legging company. I don't know if you've heard about it was basically a pyramid scheme. I have heard about this. And it's insane. She told me about it, she would have we just watched it. And it was very compelling. Okay. And then I watched a very compelling series about Michael Schumacher, who was the Formula One driver. Oh, I won't tell the full story. But he's basically the best Formula One driver in history. And it's kind of a looks back on him. And I'm not really an f1 fan. Yeah, but it just to me was such a compelling story. And he's such a ambiguous figure. And it I found it really powerful and fun to watch, even if you're not an f1 fan. Okay, that's good. All right. Well, you know what, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. And I'd love it if you came back. And maybe next time, you can choose your own book. Okay. Thanks so much to David gates for coming on the podcast and highlighting the importance of fantasy fiction in our lives. And I'm actually going to not gonna say I'm going to run out and actually get all the books that he mentioned, but I think I'm going to look a little closer at that genre. I'm interested in checking out nk jemisin. So I'm gonna see how that goes. And I wanted to invite you to To check out my social media, on Facebook and Instagram at Red Fern book review, for updates on how to subscribe to my newsletter. And I also have information in the show notes. And it's a way to get more connected and learn about extra titles learn about giveaways, and behind the scenes information on this podcast, and I also wanted to welcome you back next week when I'm going to talk about to super funny. We're gonna talk about two books from very funny authors, humorous and essayist, David Sedaris, and Anne Lamott, they are crowd pleasers, and many of you will be familiar with their work and they each have new books out. So until then, just want to say happy reading and I will talk to you later.
