Building Miss Grass, a Cannabis Brand for Women — with Kate Miller and Anna Duckworth, co-founders

On this week’s episode of Girl Gang the Podcast, we're in Venice to interview Kate Miller and Anna Duckworth, co-founders of Miss Grass.

We talk about fundraising, working in the cannabis industry, and finding the right co-founder.

Show us you're listening by sharing on Instagram and tagging @girlgangthelabel + @missgrass.

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Transcript

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Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to season two of [inaudible] the podcast. I'm your host, Amy will and the founder of Girl Gang, the label.com hi, I'm Kate Miller. I'm the cofounder and CEO of Miss Grass. I'm Anna Duckworth, cofounder and chief content officer of Ms [inaudible]. And you're listening to girl gang, the podcast. So excited to be in Venice. You keep outgrowing the facilities you're in. This is our second office. Second office quickly grew out of the first one and we're already starting to explore potentially getting a new studio within this space cause we grew out of your bedroom. First case bedroom. Then we got an office. She was not kidding. The office was literally my bedroom for a little while. Keeping up with just the rapid growth but then also figuring out like where you can keep your feet on the ground and actually get what you need done. Yeah, and also going to like someone's bedroom to work is like not my ideal, but it was totally her idea. So we were eager to get an office for that reason. But now our new space is also feeling pretty smooshed. Tell us a little bit about your backgrounds before you got started. It's really interesting how you guys got connected though. I'm a Jersey girl that moved out west to go to school. I attended USC out here and it was when I personally started using cannabis more consciously in my life, meaning beyond the, I'm in high school at high school parties, smoking to get high with friends. I have psoriasis. So I started using it topically to help manage that. I started using it as a catalyst for creativity and inspiration and just became so fascinated by the different applications of this plant. And then my business brain turned on and felt like this is a massive opportunity. It's the prohibition era of what the liquor industry looks like now realize it's a much bigger opportunity because it's taking away market share from pharmaceuticals and health and wellness and you know, product offerings that span across industries like health and wellness and beauty and food and beverage. So I landed up working at a dispensary my junior year while attending college. Cannabis was medically legal at the time. This is 2008. Um, so in downtown Los Angeles I was a bud tender. Um, and um, yeah, it was quite the experience. It, the market looked so different than what it looks like today. Um, but it's really what planted the seed for ms grass at that time. There was no product that we sold, no service, no voice, that really represented how myself and my girlfriends were integrating cannabis into our life. So I landed up buying the URL, miss grass.com back then in 2008, but sat on it for 10 plus years. I think another key takeaway from that experience working at a dispensary is that I realize now is not the time to get involved in cannabis. It's still has some time to grow and become more sophisticated. Um, and then I worked in entertainment for 10 years. I worked for a TV producer out in Los Angeles. Ben Silverman, bless you. That's Kendo. That's our first, our first hire Kansas. So worked for a TV, but who's out here? Ben Silverman, and then ran brand partnerships for Lauren Michaels

Speaker 2 3:00

company in New York Broadway video. So handled that across his entertainment properties like Saturday night live. He's most known for, started looking back into the cannabis space about two and a half years ago. Um, as more states became recreationally legal and I actually could justify the business decision to jump ship at, uh, at my entertainment career and start it. Um, and around that same time I decided to pursue it full time, um, moved back out to Los Angeles and was put in touch with Anna. So my journey to miss grass is totally different. Um, I am Canadian. And so cannabis had been a part of the fabric of my life for that reason alone, but not in the same way that it had been for Kate. So my relationship was super fickle. Like sometimes I would have a good experience, sometimes I would have a terrible experience and it was really, um, unpredictable. And as a result I like was never fully two feet in with weed, but I really aspired to be. And I had this joke that I was going to get good at weed and that was like throughout my teens and my app to my mid twenties. And the reason I was making that joke was because I was diagnosed with celiac disease when I was like 21 years old. And I had been like really sick for years before that because I was not, I was misdiagnosed and I couldn't figure out what was wrong. And what happens when you're really sick and you have an autoimmune diseases, your body's always running at a deficit. So drinking, which is really what people do as an extracurricular activity when you're young and college and high school. And, um, all that stuff was like never something I could do comfortably. And if I did do it and I did, I would suffer dearly. So we'd was always like a really obvious place for me to end up from like a social lubricant perspective, but I couldn't really figure out how to get the experience that I wanted on a consistent basis because it was like whatever came to the door from the drug dealer. Um, and so then, um, it wasn't really like I started to have a better experience in my twenties. It was when I moved to Toronto, which is a big city and I had a little bit more access. But even then like it wasn't, it definitely wasn't what, you know, you can have in a sophisticated market like California, as you guys all know. So when I moved out here and when I started exploring move out here, which was actually five years ago, I moved out here three years ago, I was introduced to like what was available in the dispensaries at the time, which is only like gotten infinitely better year over year. And I realized that, you know, there's so many different modes of ingestion, there's so many different experiences you can have and you can really control it and tailor it. You can take different cannabinoids, you can vape it, you can eat it, you can apply it topically, take it sublingually, blah, blah, blah. And that was like re that was, that was revolutionary for me. So when I finally moved out here, I had been working in publishing, advertising content across journalism. But also on the brand inside and Toronto. Um, and most recently in magazine, I aspired to sort of parlay all of that into categories that were more interesting to me personally, which like always laddered back up to health and wellness and how I was going to like feel better because I was feeling so shit for so long. And I was introduced to dose adjust early, early days there. That's like a California based FAPE company. They're all about measuring dose, um, creating repeatable, consistent experiences. And I was like, yes, please. Um, and I became their head of content and that was my foray into weed. But pretty quickly I was like, I want to do my own thing. I want to speak to women, I want it to be educational. I want to create access and want this brand of personality. Um, and I was aware of what Kate was sort of like noodling on with Miss Grass as a concept at that point. Um, and so when I finally like met her and sort of heard about what she was trying to build, I was like, fuck yeah, let's do this. So we linked arms and we launched it in January. So exciting and also shout out, I was smoking doses when it was humble. Yeah, I was there, you know, stays. Yes. Good. Um, but yeah, it's, I just think what you guys are doing is so needed being a female cannabis consumer myself back in the day, going into the dispensary and like trying to politely ask for Strand of Ak 47 like nothing was there to target a female cannabis consumer. And now there's just so much information out there and a lot of, aside from the branded content, which I love so much, there's not a lot of educational content and how to consume cannabis as a female, how to be empowered to consume cannabis as a female. When you first started this, did you see it moving as quickly as it ended up moving? You know, when we started, yes. People knew what CBD was. Let's just say I'm now a year and four months later, if you don't know what CBD is or have never heard of it before, you're living under a rock. It's in every single cafe across the country. Every single spa, there's a million products coming up. So I think that's also what, um, why we're really focused on the education led approach as especially women were conscious consumers across other industries. The only thing different about cannabis is it's a new industry for us all. Even someone like myself and Anna who have been consuming for a long time, you know, I'm still learning every single day about um, you know, the science of this plant, different cannabinoids and how it can integrate into my wellness routine. So, um, you know, that's really the mission of Miss Grass is to equip the consumer with the education or resources they need to be conscious consumers. Yeah. It's just nice to have a one stop shop because that's exactly how I would feel. Sometimes I would just go try to research as much as I could and then get in a dispensary and just be like, I don't understand what's happening right now. Like, especially in the CBD space, like you're saying, it's so many brands of CBD and it like

Speaker 1 8:55

where the difference of the hemp derived versus that it's just so much and you're like, how do I just get the high that I want? It's so much at once as a consumer. Um, and even my husband, he has epilepsy and CBD is the one thing that helps the side effects of the medication. And so just researching that as like a partner in trying to learn more about it. There's just so much out there. And so, um, it's nice to be able to like have a platform where you can curate products, education and like actually get to this stuff that you want to know and add to the, and to add to the complexity of it all, you know, and this is something that when I, when we started miss grass, you know, the unregulated market, which is the hemp derived CBD or hemp derived cannabinoid market is actually the unregulated side. Um, where it's even more important to have that trusted one stop shop that you had mentioned where we're doing the vetting for the consumer. We were shocked to find so many products on the marketplace that cause we do everything from get third party lab results. We look, we meet the founders to hear their stories, you know, social equity and uh, an equitable industry is something that we want to make sure that like we're doing our part. So we think about that when we're onboarding new product partners and um, and, and we were shocked to find like so many products out there that have like shit ingredients or labeled their dosage and correctly where they're saying there's like 50 milligrams in it or a hundred milligrams and then when there was only like 25. Um, so I think to take it a step further, it's really important that there is that trusted one stop shop where you can learn about, we know what's right for you. Because to your point too, like everyone is different. Like your husband may be consuming CBD to help, um, you know, manages epilepsy or, or for to treat. Some of the symptoms from some of the medications that he's taking. For me, I'm consuming cannabis, consuming cannabis, including, um, CBD for psoriasis and a number of different reasons, but everyone is different and all of our endocannabinoid systems are different and our needs are different. So it's really, really, really important that people are educated so that they can choose their own products and offering what's right for them and to celebrate biodiversity and everyone. I mean, you can't fake that. You can't rush to it and just like throw out three blog posts and be like, all right, you know, everything, here's the few differences, like each individual person. It's such an exciting space for, um, I mean the social aspect, I take it, I don't take any anxiety medication anymore. I haven't in like seven years and I just consumed. But I have to take the time to be such an educated consumer. One of the interesting things, and I think you're like, this is exactly what you're touching on is developing a relationship with cannabis or hamper, like weed or whatever you want to call it, is hard work. And if you think that you're going to go to a dispensary or go to

Speaker 2 11:54

[inaudible] dot com and pick something and it's gonna solve your problems, like manage your expectations because it won't because you might have a terrible experience, we'd have no experience at all. You might become panicked, like just know that there are products out there that will destroy you and there are products out there that will really lift you up. And if you're committed to doing that work in the same way that you would be if you were to go on. Um, and he sort of like medications for anxiety or depression, like we know that like what works for you won't work for me. And vice versa. It's the same thing with cannabis. And I think people have this very distorted expectation around what's going to happen when they consume. And then if they had that bad experience, which we've all had, but obviously we've all overcome where we ate a Brownie and like died for three days, um, and were, was, were resurrected like, you know, then they had not inspired to try it again. And so just stay with it and know that there is stuff out there that can really, um, that can really make a huge difference and might not be a product that makes you high at all. Right. Or might make you like negligibly high. Um, but yeah, like we do a lot of stuff around like just trying to get people in the door, you know, like these products won't make you high, but like you will experience like some type of a benefit if it's it like a suppository for your period or what have you. But that's the exciting part of this like new unregulated hemp sort of landscape is that people can come into the space and not be scared. There was a, a dispensary went to in Vancouver. We were there the day that it went legal and I think it was the day before and we were asking for, uh, a certain strange, like a mixture. I wanted a hybrid, but I wanted it a little more heavy in Dukkha. And the way that they were describing it was very laws a fair. And so we just ended up asking them like, oh, like where, cause I don't see the percentages, what do you guys do? And they were like, oh, we just like smoke it and kind of like figure it out and let you guys know. It's like, it can be the wild wild west out there. And so having your, you're just kind of need like your toolkit. And cause that was the first time in a long time I felt like, oh, okay. I might, my breathing might go onto like manual instead of automatic while I'm in Vancouver. Like I'm smoking out here. This is terrifying. But um, yeah, it's an exciting time. Now aside from the events and panels, do you guys have any other like, uh, in person IRL type of things you want to do? Yeah, we do a ton of things in the experiential world. You mentioned panels and um, we have a dinner series that we do. It's called holiday. The idea that cannabis allows you to take little holidays in your everyday life, not just once a year. And it's also a nod to Billie holiday who was a true murder during the war on drugs. So that's a recurring dinner series that we have that we bring out, inspiring individuals around and connect with them around the intimacy of food and cannabis. Um, everything that we do event wise, we really want to focus on integrating

Speaker 1 14:52

cannabis authentically into that experience versus, um, and I think, you know, especially in California, it is a ball. It's dramatically from a year ago, let's just say where every cannabis event, I feel like I went to, it was like you walk in and it was like, yeah, and I miss seeing your face like Dab our blunts blunts clones and it's just, he's raised cotton candy, THC infused cotton candy being presented by [inaudible]. You're like, this is chill. It just wasn't an authentic representation of how we integrate cannabis into her life. So, um, atmos grass, we're really focused on doing that. So we do a lot of things like we just did a journaling workshop with a brand can desiccant. Um, they came out with a new vape pen called the stylist with the campaign around write your own story. And at least for me personally, cannabis has been such a catalyst for creativity. I many many times a week like smoke and journal and brainstorm and think about new business ideas in way to structure this. So it's a natural extension to integrate cannabis into that environment. So we just recently did it

Speaker 2 15:57

that there is a lot that needs to be done by everybody who works in this industry, regardless of your background. Um, to make sure that everybody has access to it, that, you know, people are getting out of jail, that people who have been in jail and have records can work in the business. Um, and that we're hiring inclusive teams too, you know. So, um, I think, I think the spirit of the plant is inclusive and I think that's what you were talking about. Like the people on the front lines, the families I talked to her, even people like dispensary's, they're like, we are here as a solo drive reason instead of like other people I've interviewed in the alcohol industry or other things. It's like the DNA of that is like mad men narrowed or this one, it's like as it's up and coming, it's kind of reversed. So it's like, how do we keep the spirit of where this was born? Like growers that have farms in humbles that have been, they can't do that anymore because they can't keep up with all these regulations and everything. But like everyone on the front lines, for the most part it seems the people that are actually in the nine to five of the cannabis industry are like, no, we gotta make this. Right. I think that's true. Unfortunately a lot of the people who have like the money in this industry are not fussed with that agenda. So I think that's like, you know, Kate and I exist at this. Like, really, we have this really wonderful opportunity right now where we, um, we are fussed with that agenda big time. I mean it's like a focus for us of course. And but at the same time, you know, we are a business where we've raised venture capital, you know, like we have access to the money, so how do we make sure that we become one of those businesses that scales sustainably and responsibly and would just really love to see more brands thinking about that as cofounders, female cofounders already in the VC space. That's like what 97% goes to men already. And then I imagine in the cannabis space, although there's a lot of buzz around it, I imagine there were some challenges with that. So if you'd be willing to talk about the fundraising side. Yes.

Speaker 1 17:52

So you're completely right on that stat. 2% of VC dollars go to female founded companies and that is even dramatically less for women of color. I think it's 0.2% go to female founded women of color companies. Um, that being said, I think that there's a really exciting opportunity as females, especially in this space where 44% of the consumer base are females. Um, it's the fastest growing demo year. Over a year in legal markets. So, you know, the people with the money, the VC guys, unfortunately many of them are guys, um, you know, see the opportunity there. So realize that they need to align with brands that are reaching that demo and to reach that demo. I think it's really important that like, that it's from females. We know how to speak to each other. Like we can, you know, market our brand in the way that like we authentically know who we're marketing to because we are that demo as well. Not to say it was easy at all. It was definitely one of the highest learning lessons, at least for me. Um, but I think that there's an exciting opportunity.

Speaker 2 19:07

I mean, for better or for worse, um, you know, this kind of stuff really pisses me off, but we've actually like had lots of conversations with investors who are like, um, and by the way, none of our investors, our investors are all wonderful, but we've had conversations with investors who are like, um, yeah, you know, like we really need to up our quota of like women funded companies. So like that's why we're talking to you kind of vibe and they don't like say it explicitly, but it kind of like comes out in the conversation one way or another or like an introduction will be made. And that will be like the premise for the introduction and like, fuck that, you know, like we're a business run by people and whether we're women or not is inconsequential frankly. But also like keep that shit to yourself. Like if that's your agenda. Um, good. I'm glad that you're like thinking about that but don't let it be like a minimum viable like quota that you're trying to hit. Like that's just such a bad look. Um, but we've been incredibly fortunate and part of that does like go to the fact that like Kate and I have great backgrounds that like have really catapulted us and given us an opportunity here, like Kate's experience in entertainment and incredible network and access to that world. And then, um, and my experience in cannabis at like one of the big brands and I think together we've been very, very lucky in that sense. But you know, it is definitely a grind and it's, but it's an amazing, amazing learning opportunity. It really, really is. And I think the biggest lesson for me, and I, I'd love to hear what you think the biggest learning is, but it's like, you know, there's lots of money out there. It's like make sure you get the money that is the right money for you because all money is not the same and I'm all investors are not the same but mostly like the spirit of the money and who's writing the check is like so, so, so valuable. You want an investor who like truly supports you and believes in you and understands that like the parameters around which your operating as a woman in business might be different than the parameters around which like a Wall Street finance dude is operating

Speaker 1 21:18

for us. For instance, like we're so forth focus on inclusivity across the board. When we think about hiring, when we think about what product partners that we're onboarding for our site, when we think about what brands that we're partnering with events and also when we're thinking about our investor and advisory makeup. So again, we were lucky and fortunate to be able to be selective this round where we have a really diverse, incredible group of investors and advisors supporting the company. And you know, even further down the road like it becomes more and more and more important to make sure that you are not bringing in any investor that like goes against that and goes against the ethos of the brand because they will have those contractual rights. Um, it's super aligned with, we've never done any fundraising, but um, the, I started my first business seven years ago. We run five businesses now and in the beginning of the attitude we own, it's called pretty cool stuff, ANC and there's five DBA is underneath it. But in the beginning it was you have to say yes to everything you got to put in those, like whatever anyone's willing to do, say yes. Say Yes. And over the last like year, year and a half. The new mantra I'm living by is what you don't do determines what you can do because it is so hard to shift to those knows when in the beginning, depending on how choosy you can be even an outside of fundraising, but just building your own business or side project, you sometimes have to say guests, things you don't do and it's so annoying. And then shifting that mindset of like say yes, be grateful, do everything to okay, if I do this, this is actually going to damage my business. If I say yes to this, I'm not going to be able to do this other thing. So that mindset of shifting and gaining, I think it comes with confidence, vision, understanding where it's going and bringing everyone on like your startup ship that is aligned with that. Once you're ready to do that, if you bring on anyone, any money, anything that's not aligned with that, it's going to sink it. It's going to be too crowded and you're not going to have room for the things that can grow. So it's something like every day I have to practice because I want to say guys to everything's, I did it for like five years and now it's just like yes to this is going to move away from a bigger yes, that could really change everything and it's really hard. That's something that I feel like Anna and I have a really good balance and I've learned a lot from Anna because I was night, I was exactly like that. I was so opportunistic where you know, they were great opportunities that came to us and I, any opportunity that came that I felt was good. I was like, yes. And this was at a point to when it was just

Speaker 2 23:48

so she was like, what you're saying yes to do. I'm already not sleeping like you're crazy. Um, and I'm on the other end though. It is a balance. Yeah, it did. Allie, she was also on the like no the no train but

Speaker 1 24:02

oh, it's definitely a balance and I think it also stems from exactly what you're saying. Like make sure we are all aligned on like what our north star is and anything that isn't on that path to getting that north star. It's a no because it's going to derail you and take away from a potentially like bigger. Yes, I 100% agree with that. Any advice for people that are looking to find co founders? It was one of those things that like I'm going to get a little like spiritual and like woo right now, but I do think that like the universe like brought me to an like I did not know her when we linked arms and essentially got married. Like we almost like set with set up on a blind date and like decided let's just do it and get married and then we learn. Then we like met each other after we already like signed our like paperwork, um, trained. It could not have worked out better like going back then if I know what I know, like she is the most perfect, amazing partner and we balance each other out so well. And I do think that's really important. Like, I mean, I guess there's that saying opposites attract and I think especially in business, make sure that your partner is someone that is not the exact same person as you. That like challenges your way of thinking. Um, has different skills. Yes, a hundred percent so yeah, I would say look for that. I would say, I know you weren't really looking for a cofounder. That's the thing. Like I think you definitely needed support but I don't think like that you were, I don't think you were opposed to it but you weren't like actively looking for like a wife. I mean I was doing it with or without finding a cofounder, but it was definitely open to it. And now looking back, thank the fucking Lord. Yeah. Because there's just so many times where I've thought in the past like, ah, it's just really nice. I also, I'm a victim of like option paralysis, analysis paralysis where like I can analyze something so much to the point where like I don't move forward and it's great having a partner that I can be like, Hey, what do you think about this? And she's like, do this one. And I'm like, all right, let's do it. You know, it just, it helps move things along. Yeah.

Speaker 2 26:23

So from my, I've totally agree like we were meant to meet and that was like the most serendipitous and fortunate meeting of my life potentially. Other than you, Pete, I love you, my husband and you can doubt my dad. Um, and my parents no, but seriously, like such an amazing fortunate meeting. Like I can't, I could never have designed or architected that, but I will say I was an entrepreneur before. Um, you, I was, I was a consultant. I was freelance for years as a writer. I was a strategist. Um, and I like don't have the skills that Kate has. So I was a one woman show. I aspired to be more than a one woman show. But like I at night when I would go to bed, I'd be like, bandwidth, bandwidth, bandwidth, need a partner with different skill sets. How will I ever find this person? There's no way I'll ever find this person. I had never in all my life, even though I was like actively looking for like a decade met anybody that I would even consider being in business with. So like when Kay and I like met, it was like an alignment of the stars on so many different levels. It was like, what am I doing? What are you doing? Alignment. It was like, who is Kate? Who am I alignment? It was like, what are her skills? What am I in alignment? It was like what's happening in the cannabis industry and like our personal interests, alignment. It was just like what was happening with legalization. Like we launched when we'd went legal in California and like, so we had a lead on every other brand that like even plays in the miss grass space right now by more than a year like alignment. It was just so lucky and I think in a weird way like you can't even, you can't even design that. It just was lucky. Yeah, I love you. So, yeah, I mean, yeah,

Speaker 1 28:14

going back to your question, I think looking for a different skill sets, looking, making sure that like that North Star, the vision that you and your PR potential partner has is aligned. Granted it's not going to be identical, but making sure that like personalities are also not so rigid that like you need to be flexible with or without a partner just in this journey. Um, and yeah, I would, I understand why some investors like really look to solely invest in companies that have more than one founder like that. I understand that now

Speaker 2 28:50

it's just better to have like two people balances things out. He like you, he also just the support, like I don't know how anyone would fucking do this alone. I mean, I know you would have done it, but like I wouldn't have,

Speaker 1 29:07

well, thank you guys so much for that bit of wisdom. Cory and I've been business partners for six years, but we recently in the last year took on, uh, our first co founder. So aside from our audience, like also me, I'm new on that journey. So I wanted to get some tidbits to on how everything's meshing, so I really appreciate that and thank you so much for having us here today.

Speaker 2 29:26

This was awesome. You Cory's in the room, by the way, everybody. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you girl gang for listening to our podcast. If you enjoyed it, please take a minute to leave a review. It helps us out so much. To learn more about this week's guest and see behind the scenes footage of our podcast, go to girl gang, the label.com. Enjoy 10% off of all support your local girl gang merchandise with code grow gang. If you have any feedback, guests, recommendations questions or just want to say, hey, email me at Amy at girl gang, the label.com.