Our guest today is a human resources leader from one of the world's most recognizable brands. Hello, I'm Chester Elton and this is my co-author, Adrian Gostick. Well, thanks, Ches. Yeah, today we're going to learn how the makers of Heinz ketchup, Kraft mac and cheese, some of our favorites, keep their 37,000 people feeling mentally strong. As always, we hope the time you spend with us will help reduce the stigma of anxiety at work and in your personal life. And with us is our friend, Alexandra Highland, head of Functional Learning and Culture and Global, let me do that again. And with us is our, I'm speaking Gila Fleur, just stop for a minute, there we go. With us is our friend Alexandra Heiland, Head of Functional Learning and Culture and Global Senior Director of Learning and Diversity at the Kraft Heinz Company. Alexandra has a unique background in political science, ethics and law, as well as a Master's Degree in Counseling Psychology. At Kraft Heinz, Alexandra leads a global team working to create a culture of learning with competency focused development that enables and empowers employees to their own learning and to execute with excellence while growing great careers with a great company. Now, Alexandra is joining us from Toronto, Canada, eh? And we have a lot of fun. And by the way, it's not Kraft Mac and Cheese up in Canada. It's just Kraft Dinner. So a little cultural nuance there, but Alexandra, we're delighted to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much for finding the time. Well, thank you. It's great to be together, and we've already had a laugh, so it's already a great day for me, so. Awesome. Well, hey, a lot of people know the name Kraft Heinz, maybe not know all the brands that are associated, but give us just a quick little 30-second information on the business, and then more importantly, help us understand what you're doing to help evolve the Kraft Heinz culture, and then help the people within your care to learn and grow and thrive. It's such a great question, and I'm so happy to talk about it. I feel like a lot of us maybe compete for the title of sort of proudest advocate or cheerleader for our brands. With my parents being up there too, they always send me pictures of our brands when they're traveling, which is so much fun. But you know we're the third largest food and beverage company in North America, fifth largest in the world. You know as you said iconic and emerging food and beverage brands. We deliver taste, fun, quality to every meal, you know, meal table we touch. What a fun, you know, company to work for. Consumers are at the center of everything we do, you know, from the quality of, you know, our world-class iconic brands to our commitment to the communities, you know, where we live and work and do business all over the world. And what really excites me is that our people are connected by a shared culture of ownership, agility, you know, and endless curiosity. And curiosity is a word I'll touch on because it's sort of one of my own personal values. It's so important to innovation. It's so important to business growth, but it's also the key and entry point to how we can relate to each other. And even mental health, taking sort of, trying to suspend judgment and instead invite curiosity to really be that door open to learning about others, learning about ourselves. As a company, we believe just being good humans, who are working to improve the company, our community, our planet. And for me, that sort of purpose is super, super important and super empowering. And Chester, you kind of mentioned that at the beginning, but my role really, from a learning and diversity perspective is to empower learning for our teams through what we call our learning value proposition, which is enabling employees to really learn like an owner so that they can execute with excellence in their current role, accelerate that learning curve, and grow a great career, whatever that means to them, right? And whatever that means today and tomorrow. And that's just, you know, I think back to first year psychology and, well, just probably the only thing I remember from first year is my buddy Maslow, right? And that idea of the hierarchy of needs. And for me, it's such a privilege and a responsibility and an honor to basically get to hang out at the top of the pyramid with Maslow around helping everybody to just be the best version of themselves. Whatever that looks like today, whatever that looks like tomorrow, might be different, but what a joy, what a privilege. We love talking to people that are passionate about their callings which is more than a job and certainly you've got that in spades. It's interesting, you've got such an interesting background because you've got this master's in chemistry and you mentioned that you've got this passion for mental health and curiosity and innovation and helping people feed their better selves. But what do business leaders need to do to help with the mental health, you know, at where you are with your team members? Are there certain things you're really focused on? Yeah, I think it's a few things. The first thing I'll say, and certainly take no credit for this statement, is mental health is health. Full stop, right? We don't judge somebody with coronary artery disease and tell them to just try harder or to buck up. We don't tell someone with diabetes to tell their pancreas that tomorrow is going to be a better day, right? So then why do we do that with those experiencing challenges with their mental health, right? And I think the reason, it's not nefarious, the reason is rooted in fear, right? We're afraid of something that has been sort of painted through time and history as something very scary. And consequently, we try to keep it at a 10-foot pole, right? You know, there's such a stigma. And I think that stigma just comes from the unknown, from this primal fear of what if it could happen to me, right? If I don't talk about it, if I don't engage it, if I push it away, not going to touch me. But as leaders, you know, that we can bury our head in the sand, but I can tell you how that's going to go because mental health is everywhere. Good mental health, poor mental health, and everything in between. And you know, I mentioned before, curiosity. I thought we can combat the fear by embracing curiosity. We can reduce judgment by embracing curiosity. That of our own health, of our colleagues, right? And if we can do that, we can grow from a place of empathy, you know, whether it's colleagues, neighbors, friends, we can empathize with lived experiences differently. And chances are, like, we will relate on levels that we didn't know, but we have to be willing to sort of address the fear. But again, I think we address the fear through curiosity. And I think that leaders really have a role to play, maybe more so than anybody else in the organization, in creating the conditions under which people can show up as their best selves, embrace the good, the bad, and everything in between, and acknowledge that our health, physical and mental, shows up at work, whether we want it to or not. So again, we can bury our head, or we can embrace that and say, okay, what can I do as a leader to create the best conditions under which you can live your most healthy and authentic self? Yeah, it's a shame. I just saw a comment too from somebody posted to one of our things who said, there's still people out there who believe that, so it's a constant process. Like you say, mental health is health. You've got to talk about it. You can't hide it. That's right. And I think, too, you know, again, this idea of if we don't talk about it, it's not happening. Well, you know, there's this idea of presenteeism, right? I might physically be at work, but am I able to give it my best every day? No. You know, if you have a cold, if you have the flu, you're not able to give your best, so you give your body a rest. I think we have to acknowledge that if we don't talk about it, if we don't address it, people may physically be at work, but they're not doing their best work. How could they? So how can we just kind of call that elephant into the room, name it, and say, okay, what can we do to create the conditions under which we can return somebody to feeling their best self as quickly as possible? And I want people making my mac and cheese to be at their best. So I'm so glad you're doing this. Yeah. Hey, one thing you've mentioned a few times already today is purpose in our work. And, you know, leaders, look, we need to inspire purpose. So help us understand a little bit of how people find purpose in their work and how you do that at Kraft Heinz and what leaders listening today can do to help with that because you know sometimes we're making you know I'm running a rubber chicken factory well is there really purpose in that I'm you know help me understand how I create purpose when when sometimes that may be a little struggle. Yeah I think you know I looked at my own career and certainly, you know starting as an undergrad I thought I was going down the lawyer track that was going to be a clear purpose, you know Sorry, mom and dad that didn't you know pan out then I saw, you know a career in mental health and That was going to be my clear purpose, you know and through going through that it didn't diminish my desire to be involved in mental health But I realized very quickly that I'm an empath in that I viscerally feel what other people feel. That does not make for a great sort of temperament for doing counseling all day, right? But what do you do at that point? You know, you've got an undergrad, you've got a master's degree, you know, and you're looking and thinking, well, what is my purpose? And in retrospect, I can tell a wonderful story about how this was all intentional and it all fits together in some beautiful scheme, but if I'm honest that's not how it came together. And so when I think about how did I discover my purpose? It's really in that intersection of what you're good at, what the world needs, and what you care about. And you know, maybe a little bit what helps you make a living because you know, that's important too. But I discovered that by actually going down various channels and picking up what I could that I loved and where I felt that I could be of service and thinking about well is there a world where I can put all these things together? Where can I show up and care about mental health, care about learning, take this curiosity that I have and try to inspire others? You know there's a degree of policy and law and ethics in what I do but I think it's about, do I literally live my purpose every single day, to your point? Ah, you know, maybe on a Monday it might feel a little hard, you know, but I think at the end of the day, we walk in our purpose either unintentionally or intentionally, right? And I think to truly be purposeful, it needs to be intentional. And what I kind of determined was I walk through life Very much Practicing I'm practicing my purpose in that it's evolving and it's changing and I'm trying to give myself grace to say that You know at the end of my career I may have three or four more twists and turns, but I feel like I'm walking in my purpose when I'm practicing optimism And I say practicing because it doesn't always come brilliantly to me. Being permanently curious, and again, one of my favorite Walt Whitman quotes or Ted Lasso, whoever you want to give credit to, said, be curious, not judgmental. And so I walk in my purpose by trying to live that. And some days I do it well, and some days I don't. But I always come back to this idea that curiosity can be the so much. I try to be funny, ask my eight-year-old maybe not so much, but I try to help her see that when things go sideways, things don't go the way we expect, we run into challenge. Can we find a moment of levity? Even in the darkest moments, is there a moment of levity? And lastly, being what I call epically empathetic. Just, you know, it goes part and parcel with that curiosity. Sometimes it's my kryptonite, but I'm working on leveraging my empathy to truly be my superpower. And I think when leaders are invited to reflect, think about that journey, don't judge the journey, just reflect on it. There naturally starts to be this place, that intersection of what you're good at, what the world needs, what you love doing, and it starts to become clear, and it becomes less about a specific role, title, and more about the experience that you live every day, how you feel while you're doing it, and I think that's really what counts. But that's not what we teach in school. You've got to achieve a level and a title. But I personally think that purpose comes from that innate sense of how you feel about what you're doing and what you're contributing to the world. That is so great. Yeah. Be curious, not judgmental. We were a book called leading with gratitude, and we have a whole chapter on, you know, assume positive intent, but you talk about creating positive intent. It's a little different. Explain it to us. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it's so easy to get in our own heads about why something happened the way it did, why somebody did something, you know. You'll start to hear the voices that I sometimes read my emails in. I have quite a cast of characters that show up in my mind when I'm reading certain emails. And that cast of characters is often, you know, related to how hungry I am, how tired I am, how, you know, how much rest did I get over the weekend. And so I really am trying to engage in a deliberate practice of interrupting that thought pattern and sort of saying to myself, you know, you've assigned a tone, an intention to this message, but you did not create this message. So that may not be correct, and it may not lead to the right sort of reaction or response, et cetera. And one of the most enlightening sort of tools that I learned to do this comes from, I think a friend of yours, a friend of Kraft Heinz, Tasha Urich, and she talks about asking what, not why. And that has been such an incredible unlock for me in, in assuming positive intent, and when I said creating positive intent, it means bringing others along in that journey, that when we catch ourselves going down that, why, why, why road, it can be really self-limiting. It can kind of take us down some dark paths. But when we flip that and ask, well, what might have been the conditions that led to that outcome? What might have been the stressors that that person was under? What is it that they are trying to accomplish? It opened up this entirely different world of possibility. It guides our natural sort of narrative to a much more positive place. And when I paired that with another friend, Whitney Johnson, she said something to me not long ago where she said, well, what if even 10% of what that person just said was true, right? Or right. And when you start to just kind of lean into this idea that like, we're all just showing up trying to do our best. If we ask what not why, what we then do is lock arms together against the challenge versus us against each other, right? And so is it easily done? No way, but I will, when I think about creating this positive intent, it's about holding ourselves accountable. That if we see a member of the team going down that road, we gently redirect and say, hey, what if 10% of this is true? Or what can we look at in terms of how we got here instead of why. And it's a process, but I find it's a happier way to live anyways, a lot more positive. Love that, yeah, you're quoting some of our friends from the commercial coaxing of 100. I had the name drop a little bit, I knew I'd be in good company. You know how to win friends and influence people, I love that. People connect with you then, Alexandra, where would you send them to learn more about you and also about Kraft Heinz? Yeah, I mean, our website, kraftheinzcompany.com, follow us on our socials. Something that I'm super proud about is how our brands are showing up on our, in, you know, the social media space, responding in real time to culture. It's so exciting. It's such an exciting time to be, you know, associated with the brand and reach out to me. I'm on the LinkedIn, you know, I'm on the web. I'm happy to connect. I mean, that's how you know I'm old, right? It seems to be catching on that worldwide web. Yeah. I heard a thing. You know, maybe one day I'll check it out. But happy for anyone to reach out on LinkedIn. And I'm certain. That's awesome. So tell us, okay, but we've got maybe three or four minutes left here. Give us some ideas of you know Our listeners can can think what Kraft Heinz is doing to help with wellness Give us some things that you've tried maybe some things that didn't work But give us some initiatives that you've found really are successful in helping with the mental health of your people Yeah, thank you for that And I think the first thing really relates to your work, which is that we're talking about it first and foremost, right? There will be things that we try and interventions that land that don't land, but the most important thing that we're doing is we're bringing the conversation to the table. We're having sessions with leaders. We're talking as openly as we can to really help bring light to the topic and reduce stigma. I'm very proud of a program across the organization called Live Well, which is really about supporting and inspiring a culture of well-being for our employees to make healthy life choices inside and outside of work, whether that's physical health, emotional health, financial health, because that's a huge stressor, you know, and social health. We live in a very multidimensional world. Our health is multidimensional. How can we kind of, you know, again, call that to light. And one more thing that I'm just beyond proud of, and I'm a member of is we have a mental health first aid or program. So just like you train folks to respond to a physical first aid emergency, they're not doctors, they're not going to operate, you know, but they can package up, they can bundle you up and get you where you need to go to receive care. We have the same thing for mental health. It's a program of employees who volunteer, who are trained to provide that very much sort of in the moment support, help direct folks to the right resources for that sort of expert level of care. But it helps make our company feel smaller. It helps us feel connected. It humanizes the conversation and really allows us to operate with empathy and care. And the program is growing. And even just knowing that we have it, whether or not somebody were to take advantage of it, I think just knowing that it's there is just a hugely positive thing and I'm so, so proud of everyone that's involved in that. That really is a wonderful program. You know, we talk about it all the time. To your point, even if you don't use it, it's nice to know somebody cheered for you. You know, you've got that safety net. So tell us some of the creative things you're doing around learning initiatives. You talk about curiosity a lot. So what are some of those learning initiatives across Kraft Heinz that other leaders might learn from? Well, we don't have enough time for that. I mean, I'll go all day, every day. But it really, again, it comes back to this learning value proposition. You know, we really want to create a culture, a culture of learning and creativity. You know, learning is not a one-off, it's not a check-the-box exercise. It's something that we want all of our employees to be engaging in all the time. We try to democratize learning, meaning that no matter where you are, what function you're in, you have access to great quality content. You can learn like an owner and consume. But then, of course, we also have all kinds of other programs, you know, for a variety of cohorts and loan-on-need, etc. We're trying to be creative about our assets. So, you know, a year ago or so we brought in a TikToker to do learning and that was, you know, wildly successful and fun. We partner with, you know, the best of the best from academia. And we always try to create learning opportunities that give people the skill, you know, the knowledge, but then the practice. Let's try it out. Let's put the words in our mouths. Let's test the new skill that we picked up. Let's fail and pick ourselves up in a supportive environment. And let's build our network while we're doing it, right? How do we make this world feel smaller? It's by building connection. That, of course, helps with mental health as well. So we really try to think about how we can connect folks so that they can be cheerleaders for each other as well. This has been, yeah, this has been so great. What an amazing organization. I'm actually helping Ghost write a book right now for Mark Thompson and Marshall Goldsmith on CEO succession. One of the CEOs we've interviewed is Carlos Abrams Rivera, your amazing new CEO who's such a humble, just amazing man. What a great organization, great people. You can just tell the passion that you have, Zandra. Absolutely, no, I'm so privileged. I'm so privileged. So we're always interested, too, in the tactics of people who are as busy and successful as you. How do you keep your mental health strong? And what personal tactics do you use that help you thrive every day? It's a tough question, because I want to give you some beautiful answer that listeners can take away and say, OK, this is the recipe for success. I don't have one. I am learning every day. I'm like everyone else probably and I cycle through routines and periods of great focus on this and then it falls by the wayside. But I think the biggest thing that I do is just try to give myself grace to keep showing up and keep finding ways to focus. And when I realize I've deviated from the necessary attention on myself or my family. I bring it back to consciousness and I go back at it. And I think for me, I find it hard sometimes to hear from leaders that seem to have a whole routine and it's brilliant and it's perfect. And I think, wow, I'm really failing if I don't have that. So I hope that I can offer the idea that it can be a journey and it can be good sometimes and not great sometimes, but at the end of the day, I show up and keep trying. I know it's important and I'll give myself the grace to keep figuring out what works for me and what works for me changes. That's great, that's great advice. I mean, it is, it's an evolution. Sometimes the stuff you do works, sometimes it doesn't, and you change your routine, which is okay. Hey, give us the one big takeaway. If there's one thing you want people to remember from the conversation today, other than eventually the Montreal Canadiens will win the Stanley Cup again, what might it be? Mental health is health. And it's scary, and it is something that we can't escape, but it need not be scary when we approach it with curiosity, when we approach it with empathy, and we listen and learn together. That's the bottom line. There's no one right answer, there's no one solution, but give each other grace and space to explore together, and we can reduce that judgment, we can reduce that fear, and we can then focus on creating a world where we all feel our best as much as humanly possible. Well said, mental health is health. Hey, our guest has been Alexandra Highland, she's with Kraft Heinz, you've got products all over your house that they make and enjoy. It has been such a delight to have this conversation with you, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thanks, Alexandra. Thanks. So we are delighted to welcome to the podcast our sponsor, Magic Mind. Now, Magic Mind is this great product and I use it all the time. I'm telling you, it's all natural. They grow all their mushrooms, all their content, all their ingredients are all natural. You might think, oh, this is like a five-hour energy. It's not. It's an easy up, it's an easy down. It really does calm your mind. I find that Monday mornings for me in particular, Magic Mind is what I use. And for our listeners, we've got a special offer. You'll see it in the show notes when you go to MagicMind and the little coupon is Gaustic and Elton20. So take advantage of the discounts. Use MagicMind. I am a huge fan and we are delighted to have them as a sponsor of Anxiety at Work podcast. So the passion, the curiosity, the devotion, I mean, Alexandra was just phenomenal. You can tell that she's thriving in a culture where people really matter. Tell me what some of your big takeaways were. Okay, here's the first takeaway is that I had a chance to interview their CEO and I bought some stock after just interviewing him because he was such an amazing guy. And after listening to Alexandra, who immediately quoted their values, ownership, agility, shared curiosity. It's like, you know how many organizations that you and I go into and we ask people, okay, tell us your values. And they go, yeah, they're up on the wall somewhere. There's a poster. I don't remember them right now, but I know there's six. You know, I mean, boom. You know, that's a culture where everybody is connected by what they believe in. And so that was first. That was the first aha. The second is mental health is health. And they're not afraid to talk about it. They're not afraid to embrace the discussion. That was powerful. Yeah, yeah. My first takeaway as well. The way she put it in context. So what a great sense of humor. She says, you don't tell your pancreas, cheer up. Yeah. Tomorrow will be a better day. Just buck up, friend. The idea of victory is not judgmental, I thought was great. And creating this positive intent that we're all in a journey, and we're gonna learn, and we're gonna make mistakes, and that's okay, right? The practicality of what they're implementing, too, this first aider program on mental health. Yeah. Wow, what a great idea for any company, right? You've got mental health, well, you've got people that work for your company that are trained to be supportive in the mental health area. And even if you don't use it, it's there. And isn't that a great message? Even if you don't need it, it's like insurance, right? I don't think about it a lot, but something terrible happens, it's there and I know they've got my back. So powerful to know that you have a first responder on staff who can say, okay, I've been there, this is the way we're gonna process this. And it's confidential, I'm your advocate, I'm your support, so powerful, love that. Yeah, a couple of more things. You know, she talked a lot about purpose, how important that is in their organization, but also for herself. That look, she says, I try to practice my purpose. And we've tried to figure out what am I good at? What does the world need? And what can I make money at? And that you walk your purpose every day, you want to bring your anxiety down, find something that you that gives you purpose. For her, it's being, you know, as she quoted Walt Whitman, be curious, not judgmental. Really powerful that you and I work in every day. To the people we're coaching, we try to have them first and foremost figure out what their purpose is. It's amazing how few people do that. Yeah, yeah. The biggest thing for me was curiosity. You know, that that solves a lot of problems. If you have a culture of curiosity. It spurs innovation, it spurs conversation, it's inclusive, and that's why they've got so much learning going on. They have a platform that she talked about. It's available to everybody everywhere. Follow your passion, follow your curiosity, and things get better. And then lastly, I love that she didn't have a formula. So many of our guests do, you know, move, meditate, journal, or, you know, exercise, or whatever it might be. And she said, you know, I wish I had a great answer for you. I don't. Yeah, but what did she say? I give myself grace. That was her formula. So, it's a little different than we hear, but how powerful. Yeah, just so many great takeaways and so many great products. So yeah, buy some stock in Heinz. You'll probably be in good stead. People have to eat. That will never change. You know, we have so many great guests. And the reason we get to do what we do is because we have a great producer, Brent Klein, who puts together all the mishigash that we've got. There's a little bit of Yiddish for you, and makes it sound great and puts it together in a way that people can get great ideas and so on. So we can't thank Grant enough. Would you say he's like the Kraft Heinz of producers, that kind of quality? He's the mac and cheese. He's the mac and cheese. Yeah. He's the bedrock. Anyway, of course we want to thank Christy Lawrence as well who finds these amazing guests for us and of course all of you who listen in. You can spend your time in a lot of places and we're delighted that you spent some time with us. If you like the podcast share it with friends and family. We'd love you to visit our website thecultureworks.com for some free resources to help you and your team not just you know get through the day but to thrive. And what we love to do more than even eating Kraft Heiden's products, is speaking to audiences around the world, virtually or in person. We love to speak on culture, teamwork, resilience. I just landed last night, and late in the evening, but I was so excited to come speak to Alexandra. But that's what we do. Give us a call. We'd love to have you chat maybe about your event and how we can make that great. Right, Chas? Yeah, and of course, buy the book, Anxiety at Work. It's available in hardcover, in digital, audible, and a wonderful new platform called Lit Video Books. We also have some wonderful online training we've just launched, so you'll find that at the Culture Works as well on Anxiety at Work. Well, another wonderful podcast, great guests, lots of energy, lots of applause all the way around. But as always, I give you the last word. Thanks, everybody, for joining us. Until next week, we wish you the best of mental health.
