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Are you feeling overwhelmed by the pressure of the holidays or constantly comparing yourself to others and feeling inadequate? Join Brian, Neddie and Austin for a honest conversation about envy and comparison, two joy thieves, especially during Christmas. They discuss the often hidden impact of envy, how it can rob us of our joy, lead us astray from our identity in Christ, contribute to feelings of depression, and even destroy relationships. They also point to the hope that we have in Christ and how our meditation on his arrival can be an antidote to the lows that come with comparison.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters
We would love to hear from you! Send us a text message.
Are you feeling overwhelmed by the pressure of the holidays or constantly comparing yourself to others and feeling inadequate? Join Brian, Neddie and Austin for a honest conversation about envy and comparison, two joy thieves, especially during Christmas. They discuss the often hidden impact of envy, how it can rob us of our joy, lead us astray from our identity in Christ, contribute to feelings of depression, and even destroy relationships. They also point to the hope that we have in Christ and how our meditation on his arrival can be an antidote to the lows that come with comparison.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated to giving our communities practical evidence of the gospel message by helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured for us by living with grace across racial lines. Hey, thanks so much for joining us on this episode of Living Reconciled, episode 33. I'm your host, brian Crawford, and I am with my really really, really good, good, good friends this holiday season Nettie Winters, austin Hoyle. Co-host on Living Reconciled. Gentlemen, how are you doing? Oh, well, well.
Speaker 3:All is well. All is well, all is well. Should I say happy holidays or merry Christmas, which is acceptable.
Speaker 1:It's happy advent, I mean you happy advent.
Speaker 2:You can say. You can say happy, happy advent, happy arrival, merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, but not happy holiday. Happy holidays is fine, all of that is suitable.
Speaker 3:I thought happy holiday will replace a merry Christmas. Yeah, it's never. Because people didn't want to say merry Christmas. So they said just say happy holidays to keep Christ out of it.
Speaker 2:You can. I've had a lot of happy holidays in my childhood eve and merry Christmas as well, so you can say both. Yeah, I mean just to make sure that you're not one of those guys that's trying to take out Christmas and grinch Christmas. You can say merry Christmas and happy holiday.
Speaker 3:Well, a lot of you believe saying happy holidays is just the attempt, is to just don't ever say merry Christmas. Then you got these people. That says XMEX.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is Greek letter that actually represents Christ. Yeah, but you two Christ out. No, I was intended to actually just be a shorthand for Christmas because of the X was supposed to be. Anyway, yeah, thanks so much for joining us on Living Reconciled, episode 33. Special thanks to our sponsors Nissan Atmos Energy, regents Foundation, brown Missionary Baptist Church, christian Life Church, ms Doris Powell, mr Robert Ward, ms Ann Winters. We are so grateful for all that you do, because it's because of what you do that we are able to do exactly what we do.
Speaker 2:And today, what we want to do is talk a little bit on a serious note, about this season, this season that we call Christmas. Historically, throughout the church, we have designated this season as Advent, which means in which is laden for arrival. It's the idea that Christ has come to the earth, his first arrival, the present arrival of Christ into our hearts. But also this is intended historically to be a season in which we even look towards his second arrival and eager anticipation and hope of when he is coming again. And this is a season that we typically, because of the commercialization of this season, this is a season that's often met not just with grief because we can't spend time with our loved ones, and it's a reminder that we've had loved ones and many of us have lost loved ones, and so these times are stark and sometimes even dark reminders of the absence of those loved ones that we've lost.
Speaker 2:But it's also a season, because of the commercialization of Christmas, in which people can feel deep depression because of the lack but they don't have as it relates to when they look across the street or they look online and social media and they see other lives being lived and they say I don't have that life, and it leads to all sorts of heartache. And so we want to be hopefully very candid, very vulnerable today, but also we want to be prayerfully helpful in terms of helping you navigate through this season in a way that leads to greater thanksgiving and less coveting, envy and jealousy that robs you of the joy that was intended for this season. And so I want to first turn my attention to Austin and Nettie, and I just want you guys to take a moment and just tell us when you think about envy, what does it actually mean and why is it so dangerous to the heart in seasons like these?
Speaker 1:I think it's first and foremost, I think the root problem with envy is that it sidelines our identity in Christ and places our identity in something that we would like to have that we don't currently have, such as what somebody else has, and we put all of our identity on the aspect that we may not have something. We may not have a certain item, a certain quality, a certain life. I think the 10th commandment is thou shall not covet your wife. We may not have certain relationships that we would like to have, and then we begin to, instead of finding our identity in Christ, we find our identity in the lacking of what we don't have. So it's this terrible. I mean, sometimes, when we're looking at identity, we substitute our identity in Christ for something that is just lesser than right, something that we have, something that we're good at, a quality that we have.
Speaker 1:But envy is, in my opinion, even more nefarious than any of those things. For example, sometimes we can put our identity in our athletic capacity, our intellectual capacity, which is something I have a problem with, and we can put all of that stuff that defines who we are in these things. And what envy does is we put our identity in what we don't have but what we wish we had, and so it's like a double nefarious aspect happening there. It's even I would think it's even worse sometimes than just sidelining our identity in Christ and then saying I have this certain attribute that I'm great at Right. It's even worse than that because it's bringing ourselves so lowly and that's what brings about that depression, that sidelined identity in Christ, and then that affiliation of our identity with a lacking of something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that he talked to me a little bit about. When you think about envy, what strikes your heart as most significant about the struggle of envy, the struggle of envy during seasons like this, what stands out to you when you first?
Speaker 3:asked a question, a thought came to my mind about do the clothes make the man or the man make the clothes? And growing up days, you know, we had all-star converts. That was this shoe, and I can remember going to Medusa and Fred Dollastore and so forth. They didn't have the conversion all stars and so I would end up wearing whatever. Whatever they had, you know, because of all my folks shopped and and I can recall desiring some all-stars man, and so I started with the do the man make the clothes? You know we dress for success.
Speaker 3:So when I think of word envious, I think of wanting to have the skills or talents or the voice of the church, or the building or the you know, or the car, the whole. There you go, man, just just you know the boat, the farm, the place. I'm thinking. When we look at those things we don't think that we'll be any envious or we don't think that we'll be in covetous, but we get into the comparison. You know, also making a comment a minute ago about some famous person, making a comment about comparison, is what a thief of joy.
Speaker 1:Yes, teddy Roosevelt, teddy Roosevelt.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And when I think about this time of the year and the season this year, we're so envious, especially y'all. Y'all, pray for me now, because you know any emails you want to see in this at bradandmichaelmissippetorg.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we's in charge of all this Also, that oh, whoa, felicia, felicia at Mishaelmissippetorg. So you know, when I think about this, during this time of the year we're so envious of stuff and things and I don't know that that we make it as Christians do. We make it worse by the way we operate in terms of making sure that everybody have a Merry Christmas. I've heard that now, even before thanks you, but since thanks you, I've heard this thing about what we're going to do so we can ensure, make sure that everyone has a Merry Christmas. Now, take that and maybe I'm going too full with this, but take that and not just think about what they're alluding to. They're alluding to that, you know get everybody a turkey so they can have a happy Thanksgiving. Get everybody a toy and so they have a Merry Christmas. In essence, we're saying you really can't have a Merry Christmas unless you have this, whatever. This is a toy or whatever else.
Speaker 3:I understand that, the whole attitude and spirit behind it, but we've set ourselves up for envious. We set ourselves up for covenants, you know keeping up with the Joneses and all those things I'm reminded of when you talk about in this. You know things. But more importantly, you know I watch in the church there are people sitting on the pews that are envious of the people in the pulpit. You know, come appreciate pastor appreciation or some kind of celebratory thing for a leader or something. Well, nobody's doing that for me. You know, I hear that comment and it's like, okay, come over here, let's just say what this is about, right in terms of that. So this time of the year you talk about things as envious.
Speaker 2:We may call ourselves making comparison, but what we're doing is really we are idolizing and covenant our neighbors, whatever it is yeah, yeah, and actually this, as we highlighted earlier with Austin speaking about the nature of the 10th commandment or the definition, so to speak, of the 10th commandment.
Speaker 2:In the 10th commandment, it's this idea of coveting, and we talked about even coveting relationships. But it goes further. Oh, yes, relationships. It says, you know, as Nettie mentioned, coveting property even talks about coveting your neighbors, servants, your female, male servants, so it's almost like you know. So it's going to the place where it's like coveting those that are laboring for, you know, your neighbor, even going as far there in terms of, you know, if you think about the historical context of servants and exodus and things of that nature, and so it goes even to like these working relationships that you can even covet that and see, oh, man, austin has a great team and oh, if I had the team that Austin had, man, it would just, I would be so much better. So even then, coveting, like in workplace, there's, there's a sense in which we can do this in a way that leads to hard.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but listen to this. I've always said when I get, I'm gonna do whatever that when I get I'm gonna do, I'm gonna have a maid, I'm gonna have a big house. We capture. Whether we put that in an American dream, yep. And then those that don't, don't have the capacity to do those things. We say well, who they think they are, yep, what you know, it's gotta mape or that's. That must be nice, you know. And we have this, this envious thing. I was joking earlier.
Speaker 3:I was actually taking D trip back to a doctor's appointment and so was coming off I-55 on the Carolina Road in Delaware State Street, the light. Somebody come through the light and had a boat on to it and I looked at it. So they go my boat. And my daughter says what I said they go my boat, I. So, god, I just covered that man's boat. Forgive me, it's like you know, as it was too fun, as you know, cause what I were thinking is that I would love to have a boat like that. I didn't mean to take his boat, but I would love to have one like that, cuz he'll give it to me, you know, of course I would not have turned it down, but anyway, y'all hear that, but anyway, so it's. Is that envious?
Speaker 2:hmm, yeah, I think, I think there's so much. There is a fine line between desire yeah yeah and coveting, but desire brings on the covetous right. Yeah, desire unbridled, desire unbridled.
Speaker 2:I like the desire when I'm sure control unchecked, can certainly lead to envy and, as and as one of the things we've been talking a whole lot about today, as we you know, as we've been in this subject regarding envy, it has a corrosive impact on our hearts, exactly. You know. We'll take a break, but I want to read this passage and then give you guys a break to ponder this and we'll come back and talk a little bit more about it. But Proverbs 14 and 30. It says a tranquil heart, or peaceful heart in some translations, is life to the body, but jealousy or envy, in some translations, is rodentness to the bones. A tranquil, peaceful heart is life to the body, but jealousy, envy, is rodentness to the bones. Think on that and we'll come back right after the commercial break.
Speaker 2:Living reconciled is a work of mission Mississippi, but it is not our only work days of dialogue and prayer meetings to consultation for schools, businesses and churches. Mission Mississippi is eager to help you, your team, your church and your community live reconciled every month. Join us for our weekly prayer breakfasts on Tuesdays and Thursdays at 645 am, our bi-weekly statewide connection meetings on Fridays at 10 am and a focused time of prayer on the third Thursday of the month at 7 am. To get details on any of our upcoming events or to learn how you can invite us to your church, business or school, visit our website at mission Mississippi dot org and click on the events button or call us at 601-353-6477.
Speaker 2:Hey, thanks again for joining us on this episode of living reconciled, episode 33. I am your host, brian Crawford, and I am with really good friends, netty winners, austin Hoyle. We're talking about the holiday season and the envy in the comparison, in the coveting that it can sometimes bring. And I just read on the other side of the break, proverbs 14 and 30 a tranquil heart, a peaceful heart, is life to the body, but jealousy is rodentness to the bones. In other words, envy, jealousy, coveting has a self-coroting impact on our souls and on our hearts.
Speaker 1:Talk to me a little bit about that, austin and netty well I think it goes into what I was talking about just a few minutes ago when it has to do with this overriding aspect of our identity. Is that one, this whatever is recovering like? For example, I don't have a yacht, but if I really identified myself as someone who needs a yacht and I would really like to have a yacht and I allow that to change my behavior, to change my moods, that would be envy. To change it to the point where it's debilitating. Probably. Change where you do, yeah, change and change my corrosion. Different stuff like this. I obviously will never have enough money to splurge on a, on a yacht. I just, I just never will. I'm not in a path of life that's going to lead me towards that and I can and I working for a Christian organization yeah, certainly, certainly not my profit, exactly exactly.
Speaker 2:It's like daddy with his boat but which, which, by the way, end of the year, this is the giving season, giving war season permission, mississippi, at nob's office, and so you would like to make a generous donation we assure you we're not bad boats.
Speaker 1:We were not by boats, we were not by yachts, and yachts except for for the purposes of ministry. I'm bringing up this example is to say it can, it can corrode us to such a point. I realized that I just I just kind of stole your you know water, water vehicle metaphor that you're using too, so I almost said the same thing. They're saying that it's something, but I think it has to do with we at least we ourselves.
Speaker 1:Jesus in the water, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, we learned to walk on it too, right man? No, I'm but a yacht with a nice swimming pool, you know? I mean that would be great. I can't imagine anything cooler than that to be able to sell the world. But I'm not on a journey for that, I've actually. I think I'm happier looking at my life, like you know what. I'm happier. I'm able to raise my kids in a good way, we're able to stay humble, we're able to stay good and tight and in a lot of ways, and that's just, that's just great, in my opinion well, you know, that's the flip side, austin.
Speaker 2:That's the flip side, right? So proper is 1430. Remember the envy, jealousy is riding us to the bones. But what's light to the body? Mm-hmm. Peaceful that not now. This tranquility, so this, so this satisfaction in what you have and what we have brings life to the body.
Speaker 3:So yeah, y'all be careful that don't don't make people think that if you have this stuff you may not be spiritual.
Speaker 1:If you have a yacht to swim, no, no, no, just just use it for ministry, particularly mission Mississippi.
Speaker 2:There you go see invite us, invite us, invite us all the money you know that's where you know several other.
Speaker 3:There used to be denominations that believe that to be humble you had to be poor, sure, sure. So, yeah, you know. And then, on the flip side of that, you know the prosperity ministry that you can be read out to be you have to be rich, or let's not give that in boys everything.
Speaker 1:It's not at all. It's the love. It's the love of money that's the root of all evil, not money itself. Right, so you can. You can have money. I think you can have a yacht and you can use it for different purposes. I'm not taking up a donation. No, we're not we are not.
Speaker 2:But it is the comparison, yeah, yeah, that's the danger. It's not having any of these things. It's the comparison. It's looking out to the, to the other side of the fence, and saying, yeah, I don't have what they have, and because I don't have what they have, until I have what they have, I wouldn't satisfy exactly and my life will have no meaning and have no joy, and it's that that is corrosive to the soul and another aspect I think is corrosive to the soul this goes into greed is that the person who has a lot looking at the other side and saying I don't have what, that absolutely I'm glad I have what I have, because everything I have makes me who I am, absolutely.
Speaker 1:But what they're really doing is they are trading their identity with Christ into the possessions of the absolute we look at the aspects of it.
Speaker 3:Read the second part of that, again about rodents to the heart yeah, the age right tranquil heart brings light to the body.
Speaker 2:But but jealousy, envy is rodents to the bone.
Speaker 3:Listen how many people we see that run the rat race, get to the top of the ladder, corporate and even in church. We do that. All they find out that our health and our physical being and I'm not able to enjoy that footage we have worked hard, it's what. And so I think sometimes, I think about this. I think about I go fishing and I say which is worse Not to go fishing and deal with all the stuff that I need to deal with, or go fishing and worry about all the stuff that I need to be doing while I'm fishing. So all that for me, that all works into this rivalry, rat race, envy, keeping up with the generals.
Speaker 3:You got to get it done and what happens is that can I be at peace to just lay this aside for a day or two and have some time to myself? Or health care, what they say self care and all the? Can we do that? You know we recently had a pastors retreat and we have great challenges many times to get pastors to step away Of course, you know, is that part of the sandwich?
Speaker 3:Because they find, because many times and speaking as a pastor, I'm speaking- well, three of us pastors always some pastors so we can speak to this.
Speaker 2:So we can talk about pastors, though we are pastors, we find our identity in our business. There you go, and we're comparing ourselves to other pastors, other ministries, and looking at their level of success and saying, okay, in order for me to get that success, then I have to run till I can't run anymore, and all these types of things. So we're in the midst of comparison and because of that, we don't have the ability to step back and say, well, wait a second. God has instituted rest for the good of my own soul life itself.
Speaker 1:And sometimes it's not even us who's doing the comparison, it's the church members who's doing the comparison.
Speaker 3:for us Comparing one church yeah, but we go for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we go for it. We go for it because sometimes you have to survive. Oftentimes it won a pastoral ministry setting. Sometimes you have to compare yourself. Yeah, you gotta live up to the expectations and then you run yourself rag at. That's carol.
Speaker 1:And so there's not just the comparison of what's physically around you in this time, there's also a comparison of the nostalgic memory that a lot of people have of the past. To try to relive what that past looks like. Well, it wasn't that great to begin with, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not exactly as people remember it. Right, right, they remember a feeling that they had when they first experienced something, particularly when they were younger. And I can tell you right now I get less excited, less, I guess, passionate about things or outwardly passionate about things, than I did 20 years ago. But I'm a lot wiser and I do things a lot better. I can't even imagine, brian, you're five or six years older than me. You're probably even better at that than I am. You're maybe 10 years older than me, something like that, something like that Five or six. So you're at five or six. You're 10 times better at that than I am. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:I love you guys. I'm so mad, jay, I'm like very good.
Speaker 1:Well, it's that beard man, it de-ages you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely Absolutely. The November, the November, no Shave beard that has crept into December.
Speaker 3:Is it December? It's December.
Speaker 2:But you can't shave man. Yeah, absolutely Can't shave, Absolutely. The interesting thing about all that we're talking about regarding envy, coveting, jealousy, is that these are the waters that we swim in in this culture. I mean, we're in a social media age and so I'm constantly being asked to look at other people's lives and make comparison. I mean, Instagram is, for a large part, is built on that. It's built on this idea of look at this life of this other person and compare your life to it, so much so that our children. Sociologists and psychologists are saying, hey, that this is not healthy for the souls of our children. We have to de-escalate the consumption or we have to take down the consumption for what our children are taking in as it relates to this social media just diet. We got to take this down. We got to trim this down because it's not healthy for our daughters, it's not healthy for our sons. They're comparing themselves to everybody in this inauthentic way. It doesn't exist?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. And that's even adds another layer to it the fact that that reality doesn't even exist, projecting out into the world. Absolutely, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:Honestly, this is clearly what Jen Austin just talked about in terms of the diet and all that stuff, our kids and consuming all of this stuff. But we created that. Oh yeah, kids didn't bring that about. No, absolutely yeah. We say this in a sense like we exempt from this. That it's not an effect. It's messing us up just as bad as it is. Yes, 100%, yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. And so it's a mess.
Speaker 3:But I want to go back to this thing of envy and this season of time that we're talking about men. It's like just based on our conversation. Get this picture. It's just based on our conversation. What are you thinking? What are we thinking? People are wondering about what people are thinking and doing around this season. Based on just the conversations we've had, I tell we we not even touch the surface of how mentally you might be concerned. That mental compassion with my mental health a lot. I think it has a lot to do with what we're doing and shooting that you know with the University of Nevada recently he shot the professor about, went into the administration building and shot up the place by the Santa correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you and LV, you and Las Vegas Right.
Speaker 3:Is that? Well, I wasn't good enough for y'all. I tried. That's the message they gave him, that he wasn't good enough. So now he's. He's to me multiple, multiple people dead Right. And I think we have set a standard. When I said we, I'm talking about the Christian community We've sort of standard that doesn't distinguish itself from the world and even sometime it exceeds the world in terms of envy, comparison and this stuff. And so when it becomes this time of the year, it's you to buy festivals and how it ought to be, festival on these other things, but that's the end of all, for all that, all the other advent of Christ get, but your sideline is there. Yes, so yeah, and so people are sitting here.
Speaker 3:I remember preaching on the Easter program one time and I explained how it was about the clothes and about the basket and about the money and all that. And at the end of the sermon, 30 minutes into a real deep dive into scripture about Easter, what it was about, this guy in the back had his two little kids all dressed up in their Easter wear and everything else, and man he was. He was some kind of frustrated and he just said to me, right out in the front of three or four hundred people. He says well, if it ain't about all that, what is it about? And I'm going like man, I just, I, just, I, just I just preaching 30 minutes about. What it's about is not about.
Speaker 2:Hey, we're. We're at the end of our radio broadcasts, but here's the good news this conversation continues in our podcast, and so we want to invite you to join us on our podcast. If you're a radio listener, please join us, because there's plenty more to dial out.
Speaker 2:Rest at the store, man, you need to have it. Plenty want to talk about, and so here, here's what we want you to do Go out to any podcast app Apple, google, any of those apps Spotify, amazon and search on living reconciled Again, living reconciled and you will be able to join us. We invite you to not only join us, but share with your friends. So subscribe yourself like it, share with your friends. We would love to have more people invested in the work of Mission Mississippi, but also in this podcast, which is exploring all angles of reconciliation, including the envy that hinders it, which we will talk about here shortly, on the other side of this break.
Speaker 3:Even the race part of this is coming into this conversation, hey man.
Speaker 2:Our mission Mississippi comes here. Amen, stay tuned and we will be back. For our podcast listeners, for our radio listeners. We're signing off saying God bless, god bless, god bless. Living reconciled is a work of Mission Mississippi, but it is not our only work. Days of dialogue and prayer meetings to consultation for schools, businesses and churches Mission Mississippi is eager to help you, your team, your church and your community live reconciled Every month. Join us for our weekly prayer breakfasts on Tuesdays and Thursdays at 645 am, our bi-weekly statewide connection meetings on Fridays at 10 am and a focused time of prayer on the third Thursday of the month at 7 am. To get details on any of our upcoming events or to learn how you can invite us to your church, business or school, visit our website at missionmississipiorg and click on the events button or call us at 601-353-6477. Hey, thanks so much for joining us on this episode of Living Reconciled, episode 33. This is bonus content for podcast listeners. If you are a radio listener, we welcome you and thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2:We are talking about with Nettie Winters, austin Hoyle and myself, brian Crawford. We are talking about envy, coveting, jealousy and how it can hinder us in our ability to celebrate the holiday season, the Christmas season, the advent season, the arrival of Jesus Christ. We've been talking a little bit about how envy and jealousy and coveting can be corrosive to the soul, to our own souls, but what we started creeping into on the other side of the previous break was how it can be corrosive to others and how our envy can lead to a way in which we respond to other people in a way that leads to division, dissension. Here's where the reconciliation angle comes in. By the way, it's this idea that because I am envious of these people, now I am treating these people differently. There is another corrosive effect not just a self-corrosive effect to envy. I want to read this because it's startling to me.
Speaker 2:Mark 15, verse 10, beginning at verse 6 at the festival, pilate used to release for the people of prisoner whom they requested. There was one named Barabbas who was in prison with rebels who had committed murder during the rebellion, and the crowd came up and began to ask Pilate to do for them as was his custom, and Pilate answered them Do you want me to release the king of the Jews for you? For he knew it was because of envy that the chief priest had handed him over, but the chief priest stirred up the crowd so that he would release Barabbas to them instead. That asked them again then what do you want me to do with the one you call the king of the Jews? And again they shouted Crucify him.
Speaker 2:I am staggered by a couple of things in that passage. One I'm staggered by this kind of other corrosive impact that envy as the chief leaders and the religious leaders. Their envy is leading to the crucifixion of Christ Exactly. But also their envy has in some ways created a viral impact around these other people around them. That's leading those people to say Crucify him. And at the root of these people, the masses shouting Crucify him, is an envious group of leaders, yeah, and I was also stuck back.
Speaker 1:That was something. But the fact that Herod stepped back and he pilot Sorry pilot, sorry pilot, the Herod pilot, very different people, very different people. Okay, so pilots stepped back, a you know, a gentile Right? No, holy Spirit was able to look back and say I even see the spiritual problem that you're going through. It's just like I mean, I've got my own spiritual issues, so I'm going to allow you to do it, but I know exactly what you're doing and I know exactly why you're doing it Absolutely. Now you tell me whether you want to continue going down that path, because I don't really see it much good for you in that way. But it doesn't really hurt me. I'm just governing this place and if this is what I have to do in the course of my governing, I'm going to do it. But I see your evil. I mean that was remarkable to me that a gentile Roman official was able to look back and say to the chief priest I see the sin that's in your heart. That, to me, is something that really struck back in that passage.
Speaker 2:But I don't really say where did they go here I was about to say. This reminds me so much that I'm so. I'm so glad you said that, because this reminds me so much of how envy plays out, even in my own life and even in the life of those that I observe and that I watch, in the sense where, if I don't have a certain thing, a certain platform, a certain position, certain property, certain people in my life, and I begin to crave that in others and say that's supposed to be my life, which you have is what I'm supposed to have. It leads to not only the corrosion of my own soul, but it leads to carrying a kind of misery that becomes viral, you know, and so like. You'll find yourself at times being in those moments, in those situations, where someone who has been wrapped up in that envy just makes the whole room miserable. Right, have you guys experienced that? Oh, absolutely. I mean where the whole room is on pins and needles. The whole room is uncomfortable. The other piece I just say is misery loves company, yeah.
Speaker 1:Misery loves company, exactly. I mean, I've seen entire churches become consumed, tossed with that type of envy, in the sense that they need to even keep up on all of the superficial stuff at least, maybe not the spiritual stuff, but the superficial stuff that all the other churches are doing around them Absolutely, and so they lose sight of who God has called you to be Exactly.
Speaker 2:It becomes competitive and you're chasing the successes or what you perceive as the success, what you perceive to be successes, and other churches, and lose your very identity of what you actually need to be.
Speaker 1:I've been in strategy making meetings where I'm just like okay, we have the unique stuff, this is all the unique things that are happening with us. We have a unique opportunity to reach the people around us, but the conversation that people wanted to have was well, this church down here is doing this and we need to do that. So it was just like but you're forgetting all the uniqueness, all the unique qualities that you do have. Oh God, this will wire you. You have all the potential for ministry and for the work of the Holy Spirit that you do have, but yet you're so consumed with what these three or four churches around you are doing, to the sense that you're going to ignore your uniqueness for the sake of trying to keep up in appearances and what you believe to be the appearances of all these other churches.
Speaker 3:No, how did you go? I was just going to say, when you start talking about the NB and Stryphus stuff, how many Bible studies, sunday schools, even churches, has split over? Food, food fights, carpet, car, the color, the fellowship room or you name it. Whether you play the drums or not, you have contemporary music or traditional music.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 3:I'll tell you. The list goes on and you know, obviously you make a very good point because you know our sister church or our church down the road. They used to build a new building, so we got to build a new building. We got to build one. Now, yeah, exactly, I mean, how many Do we have any need for a new building? No, everything we got is adequate. But they got a new building, so we got to get everybody to build a new building. We got to have a new building too, and you got these millions of dollars invested in folk and then people get not only the millions of dollars but the headache.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Exactly the drama, but that comes out of the envy stuff that we're talking about. We don't even recognize that we're coming, we don't even recognize here's a heathen that recognizes you crooks and he looks at us. Let's see, I know you guys got him up there because it's interesting and striving and hatred. But now here's a guy that is in jail legitimately for killing and robbing and raiding and doing all those other things and you are telling me. I'm going to ask you again now Make sure I'm clear, right, I'm going to ask me to release him on you rather than giving you a nonviolent person that hadn't committed a crime.
Speaker 2:Nettie, what you just said, I hope the listeners caught. I really hope what the listeners caught. I hope they caught it because what you just said is something profound. Pilot, yeah, the outsider Right Could clearly see. Yeah, no-transcript, the envy that was on the inside, that the people perceived was masked.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what he really said is that y'all like me, aren't you Right, y'all?
Speaker 2:are any better than me. There are so many times that we think that these things that are lurking in our hearts, that are manifesting themselves outside, there are so many times when we think that we are playing, that we're hiding them well, and more than anything, we've hidden them from ourselves, but we haven't hidden them from others. Yeah, there are so many people that can look at the misery and see, at the heart of that misery, this envy, this jealousy, this coveting, and sometimes we've sucked so deep into the mire, right and to the muck, that we can't even see. When you say we to my Christians right, christians, yeah, absolutely, we church, yours, we church, absolutely we suck into so deep into the muck that what has become obvious to the outside, yeah, is completely and totally hidden from us. And so there's. And so I think, what this requires and this is not just for people that are listening, this is for all of us, this is for me, austin Nettie it requires a tremendous amount of self-examination, self-examination, self-examination.
Speaker 2:Search my heart, oh God, as the Psalmist declares self-examination and actually asking yourself okay, if there's misery here for me when I see this, or when I watch this, or when I observe this, why is that misery there, right? What's that work in my own heart that's drawing me to that? And not only self-examination, but a more careful guarding of our hearts, right? In other words, I think that is probably fruitful every once in a while for you to have a social media break or a commercial break from commercials even, right. I mean, if your heart is consumed with what you don't have, I think sometimes you just need to take a pause from that and say, okay, well, let me stop consuming. I'm gonna stop consuming my life with all these things that are kind of constantly feeding me this life that I don't have. Let me sit down with a pad and a pen and maybe take stock and take inventory of what the Lord has given me and spend time in thanksgiving and routine, methodical, prepared, habitual thanksgiving for what the Lord has given me, and let me turn down the volume of all the things that I don't have by turning down social media, turning down TV, turning down the things that's constantly causing me to compare my life with others.
Speaker 3:So you're not talking about a Thanksgiving meal. You're talking about giving thanks unto God. Giving thanks unto.
Speaker 1:God, giving thanks unto God.
Speaker 2:Giving thanks unto God. Yeah, here's something to consider. James chapter three, and this is another. Can you believe this preach he keep throwing scripture at us.
Speaker 1:This is the why are you preaching from the Bible?
Speaker 2:Ah, I mean hey, we're just Give it, give it, give it, Giving our listeners a little sum sum for the holidays.
Speaker 1:I didn't know. Baptist read the Bible. Wait, wait, no, wait, no.
Speaker 2:Read the Bible. Read the Bible. Read the Bible. Read the Bible. James, chapter three, verse 16, for the Baptist. For where there is envy and selfish ambition, there is disorder in every evil practice. Where there is envy, where there is selfish ambition, there is disorder in every evil practice.
Speaker 3:You know, brian, I've been waiting for us to get to the crutch of this, and me the crutch of it is is that we've done so much of what we've talked about, that when it becomes Thanksgiving and Christmas and those things, we have this slew of folks that comes out of the woodwork with mental health challenges, depression, to the point that they are shooting themselves and shooting others and all kinds of things because of depression. And it comes out of this festive and I know you, biblically we're supposed to be festive and celebrate and all those things, but we've done it in such a way that it calls envy.
Speaker 3:Yeah we've done it in such a way that we've built the standard so high that very few people can meet it. And because they can't meet it, they look at themselves and think something must be wrong with me, something, and they go into these depression modes. And I don't have family with me and I don't have this with me. And so how do we get this thing?
Speaker 2:back to where it should be, I think, and we're gonna talk about that with one passage in just a moment. But I do wanna say that part of this is when the end becomes the festival itself. That's where envy and comparison and cubiting is lurking.
Speaker 3:And you just read the scripture and said when that comes around, all kinds of evil will start to take place Absolutely when the end itself is the festival.
Speaker 2:And so this is the holiday season, this is Advent, right, the arrival of Christ, and there's gonna be a lot of festival and there's gonna be a lot of parties and celebration, and rightfully so, and there's gonna be a lot of gifts and things of that nature. But when the end is the gifts and the end is the parties and the end is the festival, then guess what happens. We start looking across the street, start looking at our neighbors. Well, they got better gifts than I got. Well, they got better parties than we have. Well, man, they got better food over here than we got.
Speaker 2:The end is never so. Are they having a party on the yacht with the swimming pool? With the swimming pool, which is about I want rank and nobody invited you to the yacht. No one's invited me to this, no one's even invited me to the yacht. The end is supposed to be the arrival of Christ. And if we say that again, that is supposed to be what End is supposed to be? The arrival of Jesus Christ to the earth, the arrival of Jesus Christ into the hearts of men and women. And they were in the arrival of Jesus Christ for a second time, to make all things that are old and corroded and broken new again.
Speaker 3:I know we don't have time to flush all this out, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Never stop me before. How do we get into the conglomerate of chaos and decayed it.
Speaker 2:Listen, one of the great tricks of the devil, so one of the great tricks of the enemy of our soul, is to take the things that are supposed to be good good and it's supposed to center us on Christ and turn them upside down in so many subtle ways and, slow, boil the pot. By the time we realize that the pot is boiling, it's too late, and so, in many ways, that's what's happened You're gonna get out of it, and not just, I mean within the body of Christ.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. That's what has happened. I've seen that very, very point. Absolutely, and it's not a knock on any tradition that practices us.
Speaker 1:It's just when we allow certain practices, when we allow certain traditions, certain practices, even in the church, even in the church, when we allow them to supply them, and, as you're saying, our ritual, our tradition becomes the end instead of Christ and Christ's arrival and the expectation and the disciplines that we take on for that anticipation of Christ coming, when that's no longer the end and it becomes kind of just I come here to see my friends or I come here to yada, yada, yada, any of those things, and that's when, yeah, exactly, that's when it becomes highly problematic for the body of Christ to be, and I would even venture to say God. I'm just going through the rolodex of issues I've had in my 12 years of ministry and I'm thinking this is probably the root of almost all of our problems is when we've forgotten about our primary identity being in Christ and not all of these other things. It's not just the Christmas season either, it's throughout the life.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and James says it's the origin of so much chaos and so much disorder. Can we sometimes don't even realize?
Speaker 3:Yes, since we're focusing on this, holiday, festivities and other things. Can you have a Merry Christmas without all of this stuff and things? And I hear people say well, we want all the children to have a Merry Christmas so they can wake up to a bicep or a toy or whatever, as though if they don't wake up to that, they will not have a Merry Christmas. Can you have a Merry Christmas without all of this? That's a good question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, here's where I want to close, because it very much ties to your point, nettie. Titus 3 and 3. It says for we too were once foolish, disobedient, deceived, enslaved by various passions and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and detesting one another. So we were living in malice and envy. Titus or, paul speaks to Titus as if that was the old life that we live, and then he says this in verse four but when the kindness of God, our Savior, and his love for mankind appeared, he saved us, not by works of righteousness that we had done, but, according to his mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit. He poured out his spirit on us abundantly through Jesus Christ, our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
Speaker 2:I think there's a lot of rich language in that passage that Paul gives us, that, as he writes to Titus, he talks about this idea of abundance, he talks about this idea of heirs to eternal life, and there's this sense in which he's giving us this picture, he's paying this picture for us. He's saying hey, you used to be envious, used to crave right, used to say that you didn't have enough. And you used to look around and look at other people's lives and compare yourself to those people and say we don't have enough because we don't have that life, or we don't have enough because we don't have that property, or we don't have enough because we don't have these relationships, he said. But then the kindness of God showed up In the form of Jesus Christ. The love of God showed up in the form of Jesus Christ and lavishly poured out his spirit, poured out his spirit abundantly, in other words, gave you more than you ever could expect from God. He gave it to us and he made you heirs, and heirs to the eternal wealth, heirs to all things, heirs to the riches of heaven. And so it's this idea that he's trying to. He's trying to get us again and think about that.
Speaker 2:This is, this is an advent text. The kindness of God appeared, it arrived in Christ, it came, and when it came, when Jesus came, he lavished upon us mercy, grace, love, his spirit, and I think it's that that we are supposed to be taking into this celebratory season that, even as we are celebrating, the end is supposed to be. But this celebration can't compare to what we've already been given in Christ. We celebrate, but we don't celebrate as if we don't have enough. Yeah, we celebrate because of all that we've been given in Christ, and that's where our that's where the advent, that's where Christmas season has to go and in order, in order for us to really and truly find the kind of satisfaction and the kind of thanksgiving that that leads to healthiness during this holiday season.
Speaker 2:Yes, let me share this. We all, we all from time to time, are going to struggle through this. We're going to struggle with comparison, we're going to struggle with envy. To some degree, we're going to look around at others and say, oh man, I wish I could have that yonder, I wish I could have that, that bold or what have you. But this is the antidote, this is, this is the remedy, this is the solution. It's realizing and remembering all that we've been given in the appearance and in the arrival of Christ, and all the mercy and goodness and grace and spirit, in the spirit of God, that has been lavished upon us. As a result of it, austin, that you guys got to final recommendations for our listeners who are, who may be, may be out there and struggling as it relates to compares, comparing their lives to the lives of others. What would you tell them right now?
Speaker 3:I would tell them not first of all eliminate comparisons, and I know that's easier to see it and they're done because I'm guilty. But if I'm going to compare myself with someone, I try to daily compare myself with Christ, because when I look at comparison I can always find someone better, I can always find someone worse. And I always say it's a sad commentary on Nettie Winters' part when he had to look at how bad another situation is to realize how blessed his situation is. God has blessed us tremendously, individually and collectively, but so often we count blessings as things and stuff, position and power, and so that's not the blessing the Bible talks about. The blessing the Bible talked about is the advent of Christ, the bare, the bare, the resurrection of Christ.
Speaker 3:And we are where we are today because of those say, not because what we can accomplish or we can create or we can get. And so I would say let's really look into ourselves first and then spread that abroad during the holiday season, as relates to how can we celebrate in a festive way without taking it out of reach and arms of others to have them in the envious and comparison state that we have been in? You read that last page in Titus about that. We've learned better. Now Let us do better. Amen, amen, amen, amen.
Speaker 1:Austin yeah, just finding our identity in Christ Most important thing that we can possibly do. There's always going to be somebody out there who's better than you at something. Even the thing that you think makes you who you are. There's always going to be someone out there who just maybe they have a more intuition, they understand a little bit better, and it's not good for us if we dwell upon those things. It's not good for us if we dwell upon those things because that will ultimately destroy the joy and destroy the peace and destroy the comfort that we can find in Christ.
Speaker 2:Amen, amen. Jesus Christ has come and he has come for all of us. Let us celebrate the reality that he has come for us, celebrated with joy, celebrated with thanksgiving. Take a moment this holiday season. Maybe you need to take a break out of a pad and a pen. Write down all the ways in which God has blessed you and has showered you with mercy, showered you with gifts Maybe gifts that you haven't even thought about were gifts. Take a moment to think about the life that you have. Take a moment to think about shelter. Take a moment to think about food, to think about clothing, all these things that God has showered us in. But, most importantly, more than anything, take a moment to think about the fact that you have salvation in Christ, because Christ Jesus, as the kindness and love of God, has appeared to us and his righteousness has become our righteousness. Amen. That is enough, folks, to walk with joy in this holiday season. It's been great to have this time with you guys and we pray that it's been a blessing to you.
Speaker 2:Feel free again to like, share and subscribe to this podcast, living Reconciled. Go to any podcast at Apple, google, spotify, amazon, and you can find it if you search on Living Reconciled Again, brian Crawford, I'm with my good friends neti winners Austin Hoyle, signing off saying God bless, god bless, god bless. Thanks for joining Living Reconciled. If you would like more information on how you can be a part of the ongoing work of helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured, please visit us online at missionmississippiorg or call us at 601-353-6477.
Speaker 3:Thanks again for listening.