We would love to hear from you! Send us a text message.
It's not every day you get to hear the raw and emotional trials of leading a congregation through change or the reality of outreach efforts that come with their own set of challenges. Together with Pastor Scott, we unravel these experiences, revealing the sometimes complex dance of leadership and racial tensions, and the profound moments that can redefine one's identity and role within a community.
If you're drawn to stories of leadership wisdom, the pursuit of community, or the transformative effect of dedication, then this episode is for you!
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters
We would love to hear from you! Send us a text message.
It's not every day you get to hear the raw and emotional trials of leading a congregation through change or the reality of outreach efforts that come with their own set of challenges. Together with Pastor Scott, we unravel these experiences, revealing the sometimes complex dance of leadership and racial tensions, and the profound moments that can redefine one's identity and role within a community.
If you're drawn to stories of leadership wisdom, the pursuit of community, or the transformative effect of dedication, then this episode is for you!
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated to giving our communities practical evidence of the gospel message by helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured for us by living with grace across racial lines. Hey, thanks so much for joining us on this episode of Living Reconciled, episode 39. I am Brian Crawford, your host with my really really, really, really, really, really really extraordinary friend, austin Hoyle.
Speaker 2:I'm just glad you picked a word everyone knows and everyone can pronounce Like. Thank you for that. That's very, very, very nice of you.
Speaker 1:Predigious was a word we struggled with last week.
Speaker 2:We struggled with it, yeah, but it was appropriate. It was appropriate we did prodiginous. Prodiginous.
Speaker 1:And then you corrected me and took the N out. So we did prodigious for a little while Prodigious. And then I went back because I just felt so guilty about prodiginous.
Speaker 2:You corrected my correction. Yeah, and I really studied that where I spent spent like night evening, morning, just rehearsing that word in my heart, so you computer science majors can study Prudigious Linguistics.
Speaker 1:Prudigious and I'm so much better now, but we're going to retire that word because we mangled it. I mangled it, I take full responsibility.
Speaker 2:I mangled it so, so poorly, don't don't don't, you don't have to retire it, you can just use it well. Use it well Because we can restore it, revitalize it.
Speaker 1:There's probably a lesson in it.
Speaker 2:And you know, you know what God can still use that word for his glory.
Speaker 1:There's probably a lesson here.
Speaker 2:There's probably a lesson God takes crickets, sticks and and still does great things, Exactly and just like God, takes you know, mal, mal, mal spoken words and and can redeem those as well.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. If you notice, we don't have a voice here today. One, one of our voices is missing, and that is one, Nettie Winters. He is in the sweltering heat.
Speaker 2:The sweltering heat of Minneapolis, Minnesota. It was a whole two degrees over zero this morning. We talked to him and I'm, I'm just, I'm hoping he brought his swim trunks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's feeling. I'm sure he's feeling great, but, um, to compensate, we're really not to compensate, because this is actually an even better guest and having Nettie Winters as a host on this, I think you might need to edit that out.
Speaker 3:I would agree.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to edit that out.
Speaker 1:That's how. That's how good I feel about our guest this.
Speaker 2:That's good man.
Speaker 1:On this episode, scott Fortenberry. Scott is the pastor, lead pastor of Soul City Church here in Jackson, midtown, jackson, and Scott is an incredible friend, but he is also an incredible leader and incredible pastor doing unbelievable work in the heart of Jackson, in the heart of Midtown. Scott is married to Candice Fortenberry and they have how many kids got? Just five, just five. They have a start in five of children that they love dearly and that love them dearly, and I'll let Scott tell you a little bit about them. So, scott man, thanks for taking a few minutes to join us on Living Reckons Out.
Speaker 3:I am excited and I cannot believe you made the comparison with Nettie Winters and Scott Fortenberry. Hey man, definitely edit out, no pressure at all. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:No pressure at all.
Speaker 3:No shoes to fill there.
Speaker 1:No, we love you, nettie, we love you, man. I wish you were here, miss you. So, scott, let's talk a little bit about you, your life, your story. Man, take three minutes and tell our audience a little bit about who Scott Fortenberry is.
Speaker 3:Wow, we made Candice when we were really, really young, so I was 22. She was 19. And before her 20th birthday we had started full-time in ministry. And so just really, really interesting and look at it and say our whole lives we've really. We grew up together and great times, great memories, but honestly we are closer now than we've ever been before. A lot of life's journeys has led into that a lot of difficulty, a lot of hard times, but, man, we're so grateful for the season of life that we're in now. We do have five children, and they are range in age from 11 to 18. And so we're in the fun stages right now.
Speaker 3:So we're transitioning kids out of the house and other kids are getting braces even this morning. So I mean we're in all the fun. It's really a good time and a fun time at our house.
Speaker 1:Hey, Scott, when you talk about your family and the journeys, the peaks, valleys, highs and lows, and how they brought you to this current season that you're in right now. You've been in ministry what feels like forever.
Speaker 3:Absolutely my whole adult life.
Speaker 1:Share a little bit about the Scott Fortenberry at 20 plus years old in ministry and some of the things that you've learned over the last 20 years about being a 20 year old in ministry. We got we I'm sure we got some 20 year olds in ministry out there right now. Talk to them a little bit about Scott Fortenberry at 20.
Speaker 3:I am so jealous of 20, 25 year old Scott Fortenberry that had all the answers. Man, I wish I still knew that guy. I look at it a lot of things in those 20s and that's really great times. I had some exceptionally gracious people around me. But I look at a lot of things that I did and I was talking to Austin about this just a few moments ago. Almost every decision that I made I agree with today, but I would not make any of them the same way that I would today, so it's not like I've had a moral change.
Speaker 3:My morals are still the same, but my understanding of people and how change happens and navigating through those waters completely different today. So my big question, my big challenge for those 20 year olds isn't necessarily do anything different, but keep making mistakes, man. It's the best thing you'll ever do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's really for me. Just hearing that it reminds me of something that's that I've been in discussion with others this week about. You know, when you look at Ephesians four, you hear this appeal to speak the truth and love. I always like to say that it's that is, speaking the words of Jesus in the way that Jesus would have us speak them. You know, there is a, there is a sense in which you can get content right and not and not get posture, methodology, approach right and just undermine everything, including the content right.
Speaker 1:And so when I hear you say, hey, that many of the decisions I made I still would make them today, but I would make them. I would approach them differently.
Speaker 3:Oh, I would have built a team. I was told that stuff. I didn't know what build a team meant.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:You know, I thought that just mean having people around you in the right positions.
Speaker 2:I didn't understand.
Speaker 3:Building a team was man getting into their lives, involving them in the decision and letting them even um, at times be the ones presenting these decisions. I don't have to be the mouthpiece all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the leadership right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's often sometimes better, especially when stuff that's dealing with innovative aspects. It's really good to just equip other people to be able to lead plan and just let them present.
Speaker 2:Let them move forward and in actuality, that is far more difficult than you just saying I'm gonna do it all myself. Yeah, you know, and I agree, I think that is something that happens with aging a little bit, after we've been in the ministry for you know, 12 plus years or so that we begin to look at it and just say you know what? I don't have to expend this outward energy so much to try to, you know, keep people excited, or you know, or anything along those lines. What I really need to do is just get other people to expend their energy. Yeah, Because it's that multiplication aspect to be able to say you can surround yourself with people and equip them to be able to do that type of work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I thought it was my job.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:No. I'm the pastor, this is what they pay me to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, I just no, it's not. And then the difference between 20 plus 40, I mean 20 year old Scott and 40 year old. Scott is probably 20 year old. Scott felt the burden of trying to prove yourself even more than 40 year old Scott? Absolutely, Of course even you know I can speak from my own vantage point. 40 plus year old Brian still feels the burden at times that I have to shake loose from right Right, but 20 year old Brian certainly felt the burden and so taking on more, even more than I really should, and not even thinking delegation is not even on my mind.
Speaker 3:Well, it was on my mind. What I delegated when I were were tasks.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly, not cultures.
Speaker 3:Correct. So I would delegate and out the Sunday school books. I don't have to be the one to hand out the Sunday school books, right?
Speaker 2:I can get somebody else to do it.
Speaker 3:But I'm the one that says this is the Sunday school book you're going to use.
Speaker 2:Right, mm-hmm. So what if?
Speaker 3:I would have gotten data.
Speaker 1:So not delegating leadership yeah, you were delegating tasks, but actual leadership responsibilities, yeah.
Speaker 2:That was my job, right, exactly. And if I don't do it, I'm not doing my job and I'm not proving myself.
Speaker 3:That's right, I get it, I've been in that mindset too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about Soul City Church, because Soul City Church comes later on in life for Scott Fortinbury.
Speaker 3:It does. I think that's what you guys planted. So we started doing ministry in 2016 and the church actually started in January of 2018.
Speaker 1:January of 2018, you planted Soul City Church. So so young Scott Fortinbury was in ministry 20 plus years ago. Soul City isn't officially launched until roughly six years ago, so tell us a little bit about the journey to Soul City Church.
Speaker 3:Oh man, it's a long journey. I love it, but it was a great journey. So I graduated from college and went to seminary in New Orleans via Orlando. You got a middle math to make that make sense. But basically I started as a youth pastor at a church in the Orlando area and I went to the New Orleans extension in Orlando. So I was a youth pastor for about three years before I started pastoring my church at the ripe old age of 25.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:And so I was 25 years old and I was pastoring everything that you can think of of your grandmother's church One center aisle, red carpet, suit and tie potlucks and best potlucks I've ever had in my life came fresh out of people's gardens.
Speaker 2:It was great. Amen, it was great. Did you gain weight?
Speaker 3:the first few years. No, oh, I've done all that I can to gain weight and I'm as heavy now as I've ever been in my life.
Speaker 2:Man that's good. That's good. Not a lot of pastors can say that, Not just good. Extraordinary, extraordinary, extraordinary Word of the day extraordinary All right, just not prodigious. I'm not gonna say prodigious, prodiginous, that's the.
Speaker 1:That's the terrible part, that's the terrible work, yeah.
Speaker 3:So while I was there, I started doing ministry. There were three different areas where they were cooking meth, and I started doing ministry with guys that were cooking and participating in the drug culture. Started discipling a young man and his family started coming to our church. It was awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it was like the dream was happening. And about three weeks after I left and went to church here in central Mississippi, got a phone call that he and his family had left, just broke my heart. And so then, at that point, you're going. Am I that I build the ministry on me? Did I not give it away? You know all the things that we just talked about that I was guilty of, but at the same time I hadn't done that with this guy, yeah, and so it was just heartbreaking. So I came to a county seat church and I was the pastor of the county seat church and they had four huge outreaches that they did every year, and so I did all of those in my first year and at the end of that one, the last one was in New York city and doing a sports camp in the Bronx.
Speaker 3:And I was doing a tennis camp, actually in the Bronx. I was on the New York city Harbor cruise and God audibly. He didn't audibly, but God spoke to me and it was as clear as I could possibly hear it Said you've been all over the nation ministering to underprivileged African-Americans. What are you doing for the underprivileged African-Americans in your neighborhood? I started bawling my eyes out. My wife's looking at me like are you crazy? What's wrong? I don't even know where they live.
Speaker 2:Right right.
Speaker 3:So, long story short, I came home and I went into the Odessa Graves Housing Authority and I made a commitment to God. At that point. I said, not on my watch. Our church is gonna be known in this community and our community is gonna know this church. And so I got the leaders of those four ministries together and did a really a decent job of leading to those leaders as 12 or 15 people. But I didn't let it bleed out and so I didn't take what was happening here and go to Deakin's meetings or go to any other leadership meetings. I just kind of assumed it would naturally bleed out. And so about six months later I made an announcement on the 4th of July that we were gonna start a bus ministry and it blindsided two thirds of the congregation. So, needless to say, I had some interesting stories that came out of those days. It really turned into the 60s really quickly for about 20 people that barked like they were about 250.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, and a lot of that was poor leadership on my part and a lot of that's just the sinful nature of man that was being revealed and laid right there. So those kind of laid some groundwork and so the bus ministry.
Speaker 1:You're going out, going into.
Speaker 3:The Odessa Graves.
Speaker 1:Housing Authority we were picking kids up on our church bus, Right picking up young black boys and girls bringing them back to the church, predominately white, I'm assuming, mostly white, mostly white, and so that loud 20 was expressing.
Speaker 3:Their disgruntledness.
Speaker 1:Yeah about that, about those bust in African American boys and girls. Scott, we obviously gotta dig into this some more. Let's take a quick pause and then we'll come back with Pastor Scott Fortenberry, soul City Church, on episode 39 of Living Reconciled. Living Reconciled is a work of Mission Mississippi, but it is not our only work. From days of dialogue and prayer meetings to consultation for schools, businesses and churches, mission Mississippi is eager to help you, your team, your church and your community live reconciled Every month. Join us for our weekly prayer breakfasts on Tuesdays and Thursdays at 6.45 am, our bi-weekly statewide connection meetings on Fridays at 10 am and a focused time of prayer on the third Thursday of the month at 7 am. To get details on any of our upcoming events or to learn how you can invite us to your church, business or school, visit our website at missionmissississipiorg and click on the events button or call us at 601-353-6477. Hey, thanks again for joining us on episode 39 of Living Reconciled.
Speaker 1:Brian Crawford here, your host, with my co-host and extraordinary friend, austin Hoyle, how y'all and we are with a very incredible pastor here in Midtown Jackson, soul City Church, pastor Scott Fordenberry, and he. When we were on the other side of the break, scott, we were talking about this church that you were nestled in in your 20s and heart for the Lord. God is pressing in on you and saying hey, you're looking at all the underprivileged, underserved kids all across the country and the world and yet you got underprivileged, underserved kids in your backyard that you're not reaching. And so you come back with fire in your belly saying we're gonna go and we're gonna reach, and the church says, oh, yeah pump the brakes.
Speaker 1:Scott talk a little bit more about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so they pumped the brakes. It wasn't the whole church.
Speaker 1:Like I said, it was 20 people.
Speaker 3:They strong, strong, bark. And so my favorite part of the whole story man, it was hard. I had people saying all kinds of craziness to me. You know, I had a four year old daughter at my house and they're looking at me saying what are you gonna do when they marry? When she marries one of them? You know what are you gonna do. And then it gave me all these crazy scenarios. It was unbelievable. You know, I sat, I heard things.
Speaker 1:This was in 1960, right Right, right no 2011. Right, yeah, not 1960.
Speaker 3:Man, I sat in a meeting with a former pastor that let me have it. And you know, I sat in that church when we decided what we were gonna do when they came into our services. So what'd y'all decide? When they disrupted, we would ask them to leave. So I said which one of our services was disrupted? You know he doesn't have an answer. Oh, they're just coming for the donuts and the cookies. This is my favorite thing. I said which class is giving donuts and cookies? I want it.
Speaker 2:I know that's a great idea. We need to get more donuts and cookies for these kids. Thank you for volunteering. You're a good friend. You give them the work. I was like nobody's giving this stuff away.
Speaker 3:So it's just bizarre stuff. And through the journey, the chairman of Deakin's called me and said would you and your wife come out to my house? I have some others that are gonna be here. I was a little nervous, how's this gonna go? And so I showed up. And the chairman of Deakin stood up and said Scott, I need you to tell these eight people that are in the room everything that you've been told, that you've heard. I want them to know. I don't hold anything back. And so I started talking to him. I broke man, I just cried like a baby. He separated us into men and women, and the women prayed over my wife and the men prayed over me. And I'm gonna name him Darrell Brown. Shout out to.
Speaker 1:Darrell Brown, God Darrell.
Speaker 3:Brown. He is a man's man. That's amazing. He stood up and he pointed and put his finger in my chest. He said you are the leader of our church. I'm gonna ask you to keep leading our church, but I'm gonna ask you to take a step back and allow the five of us to step in forward, and we're gonna take all those errors that you've been taking in your chest. We're gonna take them in ours.
Speaker 1:Nice Shout out to Darrell. Brown man, that's good stuff.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna be honest with you I don't know that I've ever learned more about biblical manhood than I did in that moment and it was huge. So, by God's grace and some godly men, I stayed another four years and we continue doing that ministry. So I probably learned more about what I didn't do, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Again, I would start that bus ministry 10 times over today.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. And once again it's almost that you shouldn't have had to preempt their sin, Right, you know? Because, you are a church, you shouldn't have to preempt their sin in every decision-making you have. You shouldn't have to preempt oh, this is gonna create a big kerfuffle, because I guess it's maybe naive to think that sin isn't as prevalent in the church as it actually is, and that's something that we, as pastors, we all have stories when we walked in having a naive understanding of the significant level of sin, the sin church, but at the same time I think we should have a reasonable expectations of our churches.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that when we want to reach out for people and from a place of authenticity, that we shouldn't expect that level of pushback from a place that's just unreasonable and from a place that is coming from somewhere that's obviously not biblical.
Speaker 3:And I will say there were some other things I could have done better. We weren't really equipped and so that created some issues for teachers and things like that. So, there were a number of issues that. I didn't do a good job preparing for.
Speaker 2:Just preparation, yeah.
Speaker 3:I also realized we got a racial struggle and that's why Mission Mississippi exists, we have a racial struggle here in Mississippi, but something we don't talk about enough is we got a class struggle there it is.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:We just don't know what to do with poor people, and that happens to be, statistically, that a lot of that shows up as African-American. But the truth is we don't know what to do with poor people in general as the church, and so what we typically do is give away some clothes. Yeah, Give away some food, which I think we need to be doing Right, but I think that's got to be a part of the conversation as well. Racial is part of it.
Speaker 1:Not understanding. Well, our history ensures that when you talk about race, you're going to be talking about class too. It does. It's just the history of Mississippi is going to ensure that those things are intertwined.
Speaker 3:They are linked.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and having the ability to make sure that you have the kind of discernment to say when this is race and when this is class is incredibly difficult.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, and I would say 90% of the time. It's a strong mix of both Right, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:But I love the fact. What I love about hearing your story and hearing you reflect on that story is the fact that you're willing, even in the midst of ranked sin right Because us putting the walls of separation up and saying thou shall not pass is just ranked sin Right but still saying how can I continue to get better at leading our people past their sin Through sin Right, leading our people through sin Right? And so you're even thinking about it, wrestling with it and trying to figure out how to do it. And it reminds me we talked about last week in episode 38, letter from a Birmingham Jail, kings Letter from a Birmingham Jail and he addresses the approach of the civil rights movement in the nonviolent campaign. And they talk about validating right.
Speaker 1:There's an actual plan that they're going in and engaging ranked sin. There's validation Is this, is this a, a factual issue that that's taking place in this, in this city? Then there's negotiation Okay, we validated that the issue is real, so we're going to come in and negotiate with the city officials, community leaders. All right, negotiations don't work. Self purification, self reflection and owning the moment and saying, okay, am I ready to do what needs to be done? And then protest, nonviolent protest, and so there's like an actual plan, even though he's going in or they're going in and addressing ranked sin. And so I love the fact that you're saying hey, there was a plan that I had to reflect on. Did I plan well?
Speaker 2:to address the sin and I get the administrative part aspect of it and that those, those fumbles can be harsh.
Speaker 3:I've had several and honestly, those fumble, fumbles end up negating the whole goal. Sometimes, sometimes you know it's like and that's frustrating that, like man, my, my ineptness prevented some of this.
Speaker 2:But if the church really was, though, graciously, spiritually, where they needed to be, absolutely those those fumbles would have been seen for what they were. Just simply is just an accident. Yep, you know, but not, not. Not, not to the point where yeah people would get up in arms and say say some of the things specifically they said to you, because that's just taking an advantage of a situation.
Speaker 2:And there's a lot of time, church members will take advantage of a situation for aspects of whatever sinfulness that they don't understand as being a sin because it's codified within their culture. Sure Right, so so, so, yeah, so yeah. I'm sorry, I'm just. I have a deep in my heart that I, just, I just want to see the church be the church man, and every time, every time I hear about somebody, especially when starting out in their 20s and 30s getting an experience like that, I'm just like man. I can't tell you how many of my colleagues have had similar stories of what you're going through and just and they didn't make it to a soul city.
Speaker 2:You know they didn't make it to a soul city later, 10 years later. They they were just like they were, just like I should have gone to law school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they pick up. This is the, this is the church. I don't want it. I don't want it, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And unfortunately I just see that happen and I'm, I'm, I'm just glad you had the support you needed Of just that, those godly men and women who could show you what that type of a manhood men, what that pastoral leadership looked like. That that was, that was great that you had that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely wonderful that you had that Game changer. Yeah, exactly, I very well could have been a casualty.
Speaker 2:Mm, hmm.
Speaker 3:Very well, could have just.
Speaker 1:And so, and so that that presence oh yeah, right, darrell Brown's of the world.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 1:Is is probably one of the one of the one of the defining people that that that leads even to a soul city church.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Absolutely Is it. Is it safe to say that and make that kind of stretch? Yeah, no doubt that. That, like I said, I learned biblical manhood first hand in the most terrible way I could possibly have learned it, but man, it transformed all parts of who I am. Yeah, not just moving.
Speaker 1:So, moving past the, the, the bus ministry, right and, and you know, moving past Darrell and his wife and those golly men and those golly women, um, standing in the gap for you, interceding, for you being a presence of strength and encouragement. Moving past that, what does life look like after that particular moment?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, honestly, things died. People just kind of accepted this. This is who we are and what's. This is the new us. It was very interesting. Two years went by fairly smoothly and then all of a sudden it worked. Those kids started getting baptized. Nice, yeah, you say that. Oh, oh, oh, oh, dear.
Speaker 1:That's supposed to be a good thing. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You, just you, just you, just string me along with your story. God, I'm getting into this man.
Speaker 3:You think about it because that's what you do as you go. Yeah, we put all four of those ministries that were doing all these outreach. We just put them all together and now, all of a sudden, they're working together and a kid that's coming in through this is now getting discipled here and he's going to camp here and he's all of a sudden, jesus starts working and those kids get baptized and you're like, yes, now we're not just bringing kids in, now they are actually members of our church. But this time you planned for it right, and you communicate and you communicated your plan.
Speaker 2:So okay, so then you go, all those things. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it all started again. Is that not shy? That's the part of this story that just like what Cause? I can't tell you. I guess I never had a meeting, say, one day these kids are going to get accept Christ and they're going to be. I didn't have that meeting.
Speaker 2:You shouldn't expect that, I don't.
Speaker 3:I don't wear problems on that then, right, but so it it got this time much more minor, because this time, when the 20 barked, everybody else already knew what was happening and they were like why are you barking? Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But they still barked.
Speaker 2:You don't want people to be saved. Like literally you're barking because you don't want people to be saved, Right Like that's yeah If it means that I have to have fellowship with those people.
Speaker 1:Thank you, yeah.
Speaker 3:That's where it became difficult.
Speaker 1:And we, and again we talk about the history of our own, our own history, here in the state and beyond. We've seen instances like that, where it's I don't mind them being saved as long as I don't have to experience fellowship with them. But if their salvation means that I have to experience fellowship, then I just rather not they be saved at all.
Speaker 2:And another thing they're thinking, especially with that, what that former pastor said to you. They're thinking, well, what's going to be the legacy of our church now? Right, 40 years ago you can't tell me this was going to be the legacy of our church, right, right, but. But yet churches have to change. Churches have to change based on the children of God. That has that. The God has placed that passion and that grace and that love upon the heart of a church.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have, you have all of these things in terms of interwoven to your story. So so there's so much. There's so much we got to unpack. Here's the here's. The bad news for our radio listeners is that we're at the end of our radio broadcast for the day. But here's the good news for our radio listeners this is a podcast and you can always go and search on any podcast app or supplier living reconciled. Go ahead and subscribe Apple, google, amazon, spotify and join us so that you can hear the rest of this story with Scott Fordbury, because I can guarantee you that it will be a good one. But for our radio listeners who aren't subscribers, we want to thank you for listening and we're signing off saying God bless.
Speaker 1:Living reconciled is a work of Mission Mississippi, but it is not our only work. From days of dialogue and prayer meetings to consultation for schools, businesses and churches, mission Mississippi is eager to help you, your team, your church and your community live reconciled Every month. Join us for our weekly prayer breakfasts on Tuesdays and Thursdays at 645 am, our bi-weekly statewide connection meetings on Fridays at 10 am and a focused time of prayer on the third Thursday of the month at 7 am. To get details on any of our upcoming events or to learn how you can invite us to your church, business or school, visit our website at Mission Mississippi dot org and click on the events button or call us at 601-353-6477. Hey, thanks so much again for joining us on episode 39 of Living Reconciled.
Speaker 1:I'm your host, brian Crawford, and I got extraordinary people with me today Austin Hoyle, scott Fortenberry. Scott is the pastor of Seoul City Church. Austin is, of course, our very, very, very good friend and co-host and we've been talking a little bit during this episode with Scott about his story in ministry and the intersection of race, culture, class, ethnicity in that journey from Scott's early days of ministry to where Scott is now. I want to talk a little bit about how you got to where you are now in terms of Seoul City Church. So where did the when did the hunger to see a soul city church, where was that first stirred and how did you get to this moment where you're in Midtown Jackson doing the work of soul city church, which I can't wait to unpack with you?
Speaker 3:You're gonna not like. My beginning of this Started in seventh grade. Oh wow. I went on a mission trip to New Orleans and we were doing backyard Bible clubs under bridges that don't exist anymore because of Katrina and fairly close to the ninth ward, and I had the opportunity to lead my first soul to Christ in New Orleans. And two years later my wife she and I don't know each other but she goes on a mission trip in seventh grade to New Orleans and she leads her first person to Christ on that mission trip in New Orleans and honestly I look at my life and go. It makes zero sense. But God broke my heart for the inner city when I was starting in the seventh grade.
Speaker 1:So that lingered, that lingered.
Speaker 3:That shapes old school.
Speaker 1:Baptist church bus ministry. We're gonna start getting kids in the inner city and busing them in. I mean that hunger starts way back in seventh grade and just sticks with you.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I even look at my time in Ferndale and even though it was white, it was still the underserved meth houses that I was going to. It was the inner city of that little bitty town of 500.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And so just my whole story I have found that that's been a part of it. And so after I left that church where I was the pastor, I became the family pastor at a church down in St Petersburg, florida. It was multicultural church. It was like, yes, this is what I want. And after about three months my wife looked at me and said this is not who you are. And so I looked at her and said, well then, who am I? I mean like, what do you do?
Speaker 3:And so we started praying through it and it's like it's not fair for us to go to these suburban churches and ask them to have our heart for the inner city. We just need to go straight to the inner city. And so we started exploring and, man, there's not many openings in the inner city across the United States. I thought that was weird at the time. Eight years in, I feel like I understand that now Absolutely. It cost you something to be there and it cost you a lot to earn the right to be heard. There's not a lot of church hopping in inner city People. They're invested, and so that makes total sense to me now. But at the time it was like, just find a church in the inner city and go to it.
Speaker 1:It was like and Scott, there's not a whole lot of paid positions. No, in the inner city there's not, and so there's not like many positions to advertise, it's raise your own funds which, at that point in my life, it was like raise your own.
Speaker 3:What?
Speaker 2:Raise your own what? I don't know what that means.
Speaker 3:I don't know, what that means.
Speaker 2:Raise your own support. Raise your own support, that's right I got faith, not that kind of faith.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so there's no positions, there's no opportunities, so to speak, that are being advertised. So what's the next step for Scott and Candice?
Speaker 3:Oh man, God's calling us to plan a church and he's gonna do it somewhere fun.
Speaker 2:Right, somewhere fun. That's how it always feels when God calls you to plan a church.
Speaker 3:Yeah, man, we're living in St Petersburg, Florida. We got five of the nation's top 10 beaches one way and we got Bush Gardens pay for a day. Come back all year, like you know my kids walk in from school and it's like do you wanna go to Rada Rolico shirt? Do you wanna go to the beach?
Speaker 2:Right, right, my mom lives in Dunedin.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:She knows all. Yeah, we go there often, man, we know all about that. Yeah, and why wouldn't you?
Speaker 3:You don't have 28 degree days there ever, Ever absolutely. And so.
Speaker 2:Maybe Celsius.
Speaker 3:Maybe. So it's like God's gonna call us somewhere fun. We're either going to the mountains or the beach. I can hear it, and we actually kind of narrowed in and almost bought plane tickets to explore San Diego, california, beautiful, beautiful country.
Speaker 1:And then I went to Beautiful country man Zillowcom. Nothing like it in the United States.
Speaker 3:You ever been to Zillowcom?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Did you ever look at a house in San Diego, California?
Speaker 2:I would never look in California.
Speaker 1:I could only imagine.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, I'm like Mississippi, I stick here. I'm not gonna buy property anywhere else, man, it's too expensive everywhere else.
Speaker 3:I was like the cheapest dog and nothing I could afford and nothing that would fit my family of seven. And I was like and who's gonna help me with my kids? There were little Fourth grade and below at that point. Who's gonna help me with my kids? So the pastor of the church, ralph Servin, said if God were gonna plan a multicultural church in Mississippi, where would he do it? I'm just answering this question. That's easy. You know, outside of Memphis, you do Jackson, you do on the coast. Yeah, you know which one of those would you do? Man, I would do Jackson, I know Jackson.
Speaker 3:I'm from Jackson. I speak Jackson and man. As I said those words, god just gripped my heart. So I went home and I looked at my wife and said sweetie, what do you think about us planting a church in Jackson?
Speaker 1:Cause it looks just like San Diego.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Exactly like.
Speaker 2:San Diego, it looks just like it. Yeah not far from Tijuana at all.
Speaker 3:All the bells and the whistles. I mean you know you can go do It'd be awesome. Our family, oh well. So she looked at me and said, shout out to.
Speaker 1:Jackson Mississippi. We love you. We love you. I'm a resident. Yeah, I was about to say I'm a resident.
Speaker 3:We love.
Speaker 1:Jackson.
Speaker 2:Mississippi.
Speaker 1:We're in Jackson Mississippi recording this episode, so right.
Speaker 3:Nobody loves Jackson more than me, absolutely. But my wife says Jackson, of all places that we can go, you're going to pick Jackson. And then she says don't you remember what just happened to us there in multicultural ministry? And so I'm a smart man, I let that sit. Two days later she walks in with her Bible, literally flops it down in front of me and she says read this. It's a story where Jesus heals a man with a legion of demons on his back and that man looks at Jesus and says I'll go wherever you go. And Jesus says nope, go home and tell what God has done. Jackson is both of our homes. So she looked at me and she got scot. We got to check this out. In the journey called, my grandmother found out that my great, great, great great grandfather donated the land to Mount Helm Baptist Church. Mount Helm Baptist Church names the church in his honor. He was Thomas Helm. The name of the church is Mount Helm. It's the oldest religious body in the city of Jackson.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's a C J Rhodes.
Speaker 3:Pastor of Mount.
Speaker 2:Helm, chairman of Mission Mississippi. Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3:My vision trip here ended with me sitting in Mount Helm with CJ and CJ looking and saying hey, you want to come look at the land your grandparents donated? And I was like sure. So we walked down the street and another part of my story was there was a guy that's building townhomes government aided townhomes that wants to plant church in the center of them. He says this is the land. And that guy was developing one of those government aided townhomes on the land that my grandfather had donated. And it was like all right, god, I hear you, I'm coming back and that's a major part of our story. And so we moved back and ended up exploring and landing in the neighborhood of Midtown. My grandmother says give me a ride. And she starts pointing out seven different houses in the neighborhood where she lived in the forties in the neighborhood. And so we say God started something in our family's life over 200 years ago, continued in the life of my grandmother that he gives us the opportunity to be a part of today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's powerful man and there's. So again, you talk about the intersection between race and history. Right, because there's so much history there and then there's so much intersection between race and culture and class when you talk about that story. So Soul City Church is the fusion of all of that. It's, it's. It's a fusion of a history, of story and history. It's a fusion of race and class. Talk to me about Soul City's role as it relates to reconciliation. How do you think Soul City represents the work of reconciliation in our state?
Speaker 3:Well, first of all, I don't know if our listeners can tell yet, but I'm white.
Speaker 2:I couldn't you were you were.
Speaker 3:I feel this is shocking.
Speaker 2:I know, I feel the need to tell extraordinary news Austin, yeah, yeah, no, those 20 barkers. They say you're white.
Speaker 3:Not at this point. In fact, they actually had a name for me.
Speaker 2:Oh really.
Speaker 3:White was not here, oh goodness, listen, listen, I don't.
Speaker 2:I'm getting an impression. We can't say that.
Speaker 1:I am not saying that.
Speaker 2:Oh man, I don't you. It's an a great. You got a nickname for matured. She can't even tell on a podcast. I mean, that's a story, right there man Story. That's the definition of experience.
Speaker 3:I can't even say it on a Mission Mississippi podcast story in 2011, Austin.
Speaker 2:Don't be 1960.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.
Speaker 3:so the fusion of all of those things come together.
Speaker 1:So what is reconciliation?
Speaker 3:Honestly, I am a white guy in a predominantly African-American neighborhood. It functions even higher than the statistics say that it is, and so one of the ways is just fact, acknowledging that we're different.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I love this story. Vowels grocery store shout out to Tiled. Vowel gave me a hundred loaves, a hundred loaves of white bread. I don't have a food pantry. What do you do with a hundred loaves of white white bread? You can't wait until people come, It'll go by it. And so I was like what are we going to do? What are we going to do? All right, we're just going to do it a door. And so I just started going door to door and, as people would answer the door, I'd say hey, I know y'all see me in the neighborhood and when you do, you're thinking there goes white bread. So here's some white bread to remember me by and remember salsa.
Speaker 2:Well played, well played. I like it.
Speaker 3:And honestly, what that did more than anything else, is it dropped the? It dropped everything. He knows he's different, we know we're different. He's not here to try to do anything. He's not the white savior, he's not anything like that.
Speaker 3:And so we fight hard to not be the white savior and we fight hard to just come in and say neighborhood, what do you need? Yeah, that is. What is it that you see needs to happen here, and what role can we play in helping make that happen? Dr Perkins says what you do is you walk into a neighborhood and you look at the neighborhood and you ask them what's wrong, and then you help them fix what's wrong. And I said at the end of the day, they're going to walk away and go look what we did. That's how you'll know you've been successful.
Speaker 2:That's good, exactly, exactly. It's not about what you did. It's about what they we all did together. We all did collect. We all did together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's good. That's good man. So a little bit about Soul City Church in terms of you mentioned, 2018 was the launch 16, you got rolling, got started doing ministry 2018, you officially launched in June. It's.
Speaker 3:January January, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:January Cold, cold and so and so you are in this predominantly black neighborhood and you are predominantly white, according to your former members. Right and so. What lessons do you learn immediately about? Because your ministry in many ways has shifted. You know this journey from all white to multi ethnic as you experienced ministry in Florida to now predominantly black. Correct Is your, is your mission ground. What, what lessons do you experience pretty early on? What do you notice pretty early on about ministry in that context versus the other context that you were a part of?
Speaker 3:Well, first I would say I have noticed that I don't know what I've learned and therefore I'm not as good at teaching what I've learned. What I learned all through the journey has become normal to me, right, and therefore I assume it's normal for everybody else and the truth is, most people don't have my journey don't have my experiences and don't have my scars.
Speaker 2:Isn't that how everyone works? To a degree, though, I think you kind of touch down on a, on a central aspect of what it means just to be a human Right. It's just like okay. So I see, everything I've learned is normal, but it could be just a revolutionary way of thinking for other people. You know, and part of part of even being a leader is to realize, you know what my experiences aren't normal.
Speaker 3:And I do have something.
Speaker 2:If I can just tap into what it is or verbalize it and articulate it, I can bring other people along. Sorry, man.
Speaker 3:I just, I just heard what you said.
Speaker 2:I was like man. That's, that's a deep, that's a deep central tooth of what it means to be a human. We talk, how we all work.
Speaker 1:We talk to people all the time and in some of the coaching that I do matter of fact, I think I might share this with Scott last week but but don't assume that what's intuitive to you is intuitive to everybody else.
Speaker 1:You know, and so the very things that are intuitive to you, that just naturally come to you, you have to be intentional in order to establish that culture with everyone else. And so, like you said, scott, you'll come into a place and just naturally connect across all of these different socioeconomic, racial, cultural, ethnic lines and think, oh yeah, this is what we do, not realizing that the rest of these people like hey, can you, I'm taking notes here, can you, can you just show me what you did again so I can write that down as to as the step one, step two, step three, and and you have to be intentional in, in teaching and passing, passing these things that you've intuitively, intuitively established, and then, over time, it becomes intuitive to everybody else yeah, right, yeah, so I totally agree with you and, honestly, that's just a continual process of learning what that is.
Speaker 3:So I just have a few tidbits that I was saying, one is be real. Right, that's a part of that, that white bread story.
Speaker 3:Just just be real, be you. I remember go. I used to go to the 530 AM Bible study with Dr Perkins every morning and I remember one day one of his daughters looking at me and saying I've had a lot of people that look like you and sound like you, that have done some really awful things to me. And I looked at her and said I can change my look, but I'm kind of stuck with this pipsqueak voice. It's been with me a long time. How do I change that? And she paused and she said do what you did here. I don't know what I did. She said keep showing up and keep smiling she's. She went on to say black people really do want their walls to fall. Give them an excuse to let them fall. And I think there is a lot of truth in and go. Go. Be real, be consistent and be funny. Yeah, I think humor goes a long way. I think laughing at yourself as much as you possibly can, um, you know I have.
Speaker 2:I have kids being there, just being present, showing up establishes an emotion show and it lets like that, just like what you, what you were talking about before the broadcast, of what you do with your leadership groups, saying, hey, what emotion are you guys feeling right now?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Laughter does that. It does, it establishes because we're establishing an emotion everywhere we go, whether we acknowledge it or not.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just uh, with laughter you're just establishing a good one. That's right, right, and you could be just and it's going to be quiet and for other people, they could be looking at you and thinking man, this guy's really establishing a bad emotion, right?
Speaker 1:now Continuing to show up man.
Speaker 3:Yep, Consistency matters, and so that was. That is a very important thing for us. If we say we're going to do it, we have to do it Right. Um, our neighborhood has been let down time and time and time and time again of people. That's good blow in blow up and blow out, yeah. And so my neighborhood is continually asking yeah, when's? When you leaving? Right, when you leaving right.
Speaker 3:You know we get broken into. Oh, this is the final straw. You know? Oh, it didn't. You know people didn't show up to the event. He's going to bail.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:And so, uh, you know, oh, it's cold, we're going to be there. We said we're going to be there, we're going to be there. It's hot, we're going to be there, right. And um, you know, I think we're finally earning some trust. I'll tell you the way I'll describe it. I am not the skinny white guy in midtown anymore, I'm just Scott Cool, cool.
Speaker 1:That's how you've heard some. True, that's how you know you've heard some.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, they see you as an individual. When I'm saying a group representative. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I get it. For a long time. I was just the skinny white guy and that was okay. I wore that name too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, man, give me some, give me some hopeful stories about what God is doing in soul city, god is doing in midtown. That that puts you know, that puts a fire, fire in your belly again, man, it gets you fired up and get you want to get up, get you wanting to get up in the morning and go and continue and continue the work that he set you on.
Speaker 3:Man, I want to talk, talk a lot, but I want to talk about this weekend. Yeah, um, our kids went to a disciple now weekend, and so they heard preaching and broke into small groups and did some fun games and those kinds of things. Um, but I love that. I love what happened for Sean. Sean walked out of that and said small group was the best time.
Speaker 3:I loved hearing what was happening in everybody else and this is a kid, that's uh, in the midst of some pretty tough stuff. And, man, he's saying I want to hear people's stories. And then I loved it Monday night at our student ministry. He checked in his emotion and so it's just so great. Not only does he want to hear from other people, he's starting to do the work and he's putting it in himself, and so that's, that's so much fun. Sean and his brother are two, two, what we call soul city. Oh geez, we've had them with us since they were in the in the third or fourth grade, and we've been all over the country with them and they are, um, they, they, they, they make us wake up in the morning.
Speaker 1:We love what?
Speaker 3:God's doing in them. Um, we got some guys that are just developing as leaders. We're largely a teenager ministry. We say we're a middle school boys ministry that birthed the church and those middle school boys are now getting into high school and the problems are getting bigger and the ramifications of the problems are bigger, and, um, but we also say we're raising a generation that will eventually be the ones that can change our neighborhood, right, right, so it's all. It's a 20 year vision, not a, uh, three year vision.
Speaker 2:Right, well, if you're actually going to make change, 20 year vision is the best about 100% and it's recognizing that the white guys not going to be the one making the change. Exactly, and I saw him and one of them just helping an assistant and you're just present. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:One of our leaders ended disciple now by telling every sitting in the room what they could be, and one of the things that she pointed out to one of the kids is you could be a pastor, and I just think how cool would it be if one day, that kid was the pastor of South city church, yeah, man. Oh, we were cheerleaders going get them.
Speaker 1:Right, you know by that point.
Speaker 3:I'll be a old, old, old man. I'll be up in my sixties, yeah.
Speaker 2:Man, I know If you're like me, you're already feeling like you're getting a little bit old man, I kind of feel that knees beginning to make noises when they move.
Speaker 3:By the way, you couldn't see me laughing on that, but I was laughing for all you 60 year olds out there. That is not near as old as it used to be.
Speaker 2:Not at all. Not at all. You 60 is the new 20. Yeah, that's right, yeah.
Speaker 1:We're just going to, we're just going to keep stretching that. By the way.
Speaker 2:Oh, hey, look the way I say it. This is when I tell all my old congregants I just say, look, you're not getting old until you're in the triple digits.
Speaker 3:I love I had a senior adult lady pull me in the side one time and she goes. You need to know this. She goes. Old people aren't mad at you. Their faces just droop.
Speaker 1:That's funny so talk to me a little bit about opportunities when you because there's a lot of, there's a lot of midtowns in Mississippi, lot of midtowns in Mississippi, and so there's there's people out there that probably look at midtown and say, man, it looks a lot like my, looks like a lot like my corner of the corner of the state. So, as you think about the midtowns throughout Mississippi, talk a little bit about some of the opportunities that you've seen in your midtown and ways that you've leaned into those opportunities. Maybe that can serve as a little bit of a little bit of a helper motivation for people who have midtowns all around the state.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, the first thing I would tell you is if you see a midtown around you, you do not have to walk in and tell them everything that's wrong.
Speaker 1:Talk to me about it.
Speaker 3:Man, people love to do that. We would never do it interpersonally, but we'll do it about where a person lives. Man, go in and find out what's right, find out what they do. Well, I tell this story a lot. If a tree falls in my house, we call the insurance company. They send out a guy. He cuts it up, we get rid of the tree. It takes three weeks and everything's back to normal. Man, if a tree falls in midtown, somebody comes as hey, I got a chain saw and they three guys come and they cut it down and they do a bonfire and that night everybody's sitting around the bonfire and they're eating a miller. They do community in my neighborhood far better than anything I've experienced in the suburbs.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 3:So celebrate that Don't walk in and go, Whatever the obvious problems are. They know the problems and then that gives you the opportunity to go. What problem do?
Speaker 1:you see? Well, celebrate and learn. It sounds like yeah. Yeah because now, now, these are something worthy of celebration, but it's also hey man, maybe we can pick up a few tips about community.
Speaker 3:Yeah, in this place.
Speaker 2:Exactly what if?
Speaker 3:and there's all kinds of things you want to learn tenacity. Come to midtown. You want to learn how to get by and make it work. Man, there's all kinds of things that you can learn about life you don't learn about. Don't quit. Come to midtown yeah, lot, lot more prevalent than you'll see in other areas than I've lived. Lots to celebrate and lots to learn from. And then let them tell you what they want to see. What do they see as the big news? Cause I see some needs around our neighborhood. My neighborhoods aren't talking about men. I'm frustrated that every streetlight doesn't light up and bother a lot of my people. For me, I look at it and go man, this neighborhood would change just for streetlights. But it's not the big, the big issue. They have other issues, and so what are those? Oh, crime, okay, what can we do about that? So I have answers to some of them. A lot of times I just look at them and go, and that is a big one. Let's see what we can do.
Speaker 2:I don't have an answer, yeah.
Speaker 3:I have a long term dream of all of our inner city ministries working on a project together that doesn't impact any of us.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Right, something that we can just all do, and we can all cheerlead, and we can all make happen and at the end of the day, none of us directly benefit.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, right, all right, you pour it out Pour it out.
Speaker 2:You've poured out Pour it out.
Speaker 1:Electively pour it out. That's right.
Speaker 2:I got one question. This is going to be my last question what to tell our listeners? If anyone would like, I want to go check out soul city, just uh, just kind of like that threshold. How do people walk in and getting to understand y'all more than just kind of listening to about, about y'all on the podcast?
Speaker 3:Absolutely so. Soulcityjaxsoncom is our website.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Um, and you'd have some opportunities there where you can email Um. We do a midtown minute every Friday. We release a midtown minute, um, generally on there there's some contacts. We release that through email, uh, and also on social media social media, um Instagram and Facebook and soul city.
Speaker 1:Soul city Jackson Facebook Instagram.
Speaker 3:That's correct, okay, and so you can kind of get in touch and the other thing. But I'd love for you to just show up on Sunday and see what we're doing.
Speaker 2:So what time?
Speaker 3:we do church at three o'clock and we eat at four o'clock, and we do that every Sunday, okay, um, so just show up, come and be a part of it and look around and go. I like this or man. Y'all are crazy, and I'm actually okay with both answers and I would rather you just be honest with me and say that's where we are, um 226 Whitfield street, right behind Rowan middle school.
Speaker 2:All right 226 226.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, scott, man. It's been a great privilege and a great honor, man, to to spend some time with you and have you share not only your story, man, but the story of what God is doing in your life, the story of what God is doing in midtown and, obviously, man, I think our listeners have been given an incredible amount of information to to pray on, but also to act on, and so we pray that you would do both if you're listening. So thanks so much again for joining us on episode 39 of living reconciled, with Scott Fortenberry, our guest, and with Austin Hoyle, my extraordinary friend. I'm Brian Crawford signing off saying God bless, god bless, god bless. Thanks for joining living reconciled. If you would like more information on how you can be a part of the ongoing work of helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured, please visit us online at mission Mississippiorg or call us at 601-353-6477. Thanks again for listening.