We would love to hear from you! Send us a text message.
Join us as we discuss the power of prayer in reconciliation with Brian, Neddie, and Austin! This episode's conversation reveals how Mission Mississippi turns to a deep-rooted prayer life to drive transformative relationships and healing. We journey through moments in history where prayer bridged the deepest of divides, and contemplate its powerful biblical significance, reflecting on the teachings of Jesus, the need for forgiveness, and the significance of an inner strengthening through the Spirit.
Take a listen and learn why prayer is the foundation of the Christian life and the work of reconciliation.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters
We would love to hear from you! Send us a text message.
Join us as we discuss the power of prayer in reconciliation with Brian, Neddie, and Austin! This episode's conversation reveals how Mission Mississippi turns to a deep-rooted prayer life to drive transformative relationships and healing. We journey through moments in history where prayer bridged the deepest of divides, and contemplate its powerful biblical significance, reflecting on the teachings of Jesus, the need for forgiveness, and the significance of an inner strengthening through the Spirit.
Take a listen and learn why prayer is the foundation of the Christian life and the work of reconciliation.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated to giving our communities practical evidence of the gospel message by helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured for us by living with grace across racial lines. Hey, thanks so much for joining us on Living Reconciled, episode 49. I'm your host, brian Crawford, with my co-host and wonderful friends, nettie Winters, dr Austin Hoyle, gentlemen, how are you doing today? Oh, doing real well, real well. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2:doing real well. How are you doing, my friend?
Speaker 1:I'm doing wonderful. How about yourself, reverend Dr Nettie?
Speaker 3:Winters. I'm in the company of Dr Austin Hoyle and Master Preacher Dr Reverend Brad Crawford man. They couldn't get any better. It's like being in heaven.
Speaker 1:It's not quite, but I'm sure it's pretty good.
Speaker 2:Did you call Brian Master Preacher? Yeah, master Preacher. No, I like it, I think it works. I think it works.
Speaker 1:That's not what I would go go for yeah, as my yeah, master, master, preacher you know in it in that, hey brad.
Speaker 3:Uh, also. I'm sorry then that master preacher worked out to be like the right reverend yeah, I guess so I guess so I guess the baptist version of right reverend right, yeah
Speaker 1:I feel, I feel like, as y'all say, master preacher, I feel like there should be like a cut reel somewhere of me having like these real intense training moments. It's like when you move from student to master in movies. There's like this cut reel of a guy lifting weights and doing excruciating, uh, uh, martial arts and then he becomes a master and so.
Speaker 2:But it would be like this sequence or a scene like that, and this is how I you know, Nettie and I stepping back in the audience in the sanctuary, throwing out Bible verse to you in the front, making you construct a perfect sermon on the spot, with no preparation.
Speaker 1:That's a good. That's a good. That's how I. That's a good visual. Yeah, maybe we'll try that. Maybe we'll try that.
Speaker 1:We want to give a special thanks to our sponsors Nissan, st Dominic's Hospital, atmos Energy Regions Foundation, brown Missionary Baptist Church, christian Life Church, ms Doris Powell, mr Robert Ward and Ms Ann Winters. Thank you so much for everything that you do. It's because of what you do that Mission Mississippi is able to do what we do, and today what we are doing, gentlemen, is we're talking about the power of prayer in the work of reconciliation. Mission Mississippi is a lot of things. When it comes to dealing with racial healing, we do a lot of things. We conduct days of dialogue, we host podcasts like this, we conduct trainings, teaching people how to navigate through relationships in healthy ways.
Speaker 1:But at the foundation of Mission Mississippi, we are a praying organization. We believe that prayer is fundamental to the work of reconciliation. We believe that the very existence of Mission Mississippi, 30 years later, is a product and is the fruit of a vibrant prayer life in this organization, and so I thought it would be useful to talk about reconciliation and the place in the role of prayer in the work of reconciliation. Nettie, you have been a part of Mission Mississippi in various ways for the last 30 years and you've seen prayer in the role that it's played, in the fruit that it has produced in this organization for the last 30 years. So could you offer us a historical tour of the role of prayer in this organization and in the work of reconciliation? Brian?
Speaker 3:as I think about answering that question. The thing that I want to be clear about is that there were people praying before Mississippi for racial reconciliation to take place in this state. There were a lot of praying since the 60s about reconciliation taking place and we're moving from the back burner to the front burner. However, Mississippi was born out of prayer. Mississippi was born out of prayer, In fact, in the early 90s, 91, 92, there were people here in this city that became part of Mississippi, that birthplace Mississippi, was meeting in places around the city of Jackson to pray for relationship, racial relationships, and we would meet in the back of the police departments and other places, as somebody jokingly said, drinking Coke, orange, stale donuts.
Speaker 3:We would be praying. And so the heart of Michigan City. In fact, if you talk to some folks in Greenville that was around early on, they'd say well, Michigan City is a prime ministry. I'm talking about, that's what we do, we pray. It's a proud ministry.
Speaker 3:And so the birth of Michigan, Mississippi came out of prayer. People, both black and white, praying the outreacher getting better in Mississippi and because of that we're challenging. Out of that came the challenge of a Christian to pray together, to love each other and live out the reconciliation that God has given us through Lenten Tide. So we've been at this for a long time and I dare say that if it had not been for prayer, the three of us would not be having this conversation today. In fact, you'd probably still be at the core, I would probably be doing Mississippi Home Corporation or some other agency or some other organization and also probably still be past our way.
Speaker 3:So the ability and the capacity for us to have an opportunity to pray and do that came out of the capacity of prayer and so we're here today as a result of prayer. Prayer has been a backbone, the foundation. However you want to describe Michigan, Mississippi, prayer is there. It's front and center. It's a major aspect of what we do in Chatham. Whenever we are talking to groups or people want to get a Mission Mississippi group going, we emphasize and really insist that prayer be a major component of people praying together.
Speaker 1:Boston, when you think about the role of prayer in the work of Mission Mississippi, why do you believe, biblically, theologically, prayer is so critical in the work of unifying God's church?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, first and foremost, we know that it is God alone who moves the mountain Right. So our acts of prayers are to engage God with the utterances of our hearts and through that, prayers, as our hearts begin to speak with God, begin to speak with God, he either corrects us in our thinking or he listens, because our hearts are truly coming out of a place of just genuine faith. This is the reason why I think faith in the process of prayer is just so important. So, just as Mission Mississippi began as a prayer organization 30 years ago, it's been kind of the outcry, the utterance of our hearts to both, uh, become refined, uh, in our faith refined, and and our approach, you know, we come to God genuinely and through our prayers God teaches us, um, God teaches us how to um, how to approach him in a way where our, our, our faith is preeminent. As we stretch out our hands in this type of asking for grace and asking to become better persons, and as God kind of refines our hearts, he also listens to our utterances. For example, if we are calling upon God for reconciliation, God will grant us reconciliation. This is the primary, most fundamental step towards reconciliation is having that proper attitude and tone and posture towards God.
Speaker 2:So that's what I would say is kind of the fundamental theological reason why prayer is so important for a movement like this, because prayer really is projecting and it's putting our faith upon God who influences this world.
Speaker 2:So, as God refines us, our faith and our prayer moves the heart of God and our Lord Jesus, through this, demonstrates his mighty power. For example, when he curses the fig tree and afterward he taught that great power is entrusted, His mighty power, you know. For example, when he curses the fig tree right, and afterward he taught that great power is entrusted to faith and prayer, not to destroy but to give life, not to curse but to bless. So we come before God to ask for blessings for all of God's people, not so that we may curse any subset of person, so that we may find blessing. So really, prayers are also like, while we want to move away from a segregated society, the lack of capacity for empathy for one another, really we're also moving towards a positive. God gives a positive vision for what the church can look like and, through the church, what the world can look like, all through the power of God.
Speaker 1:Yeah, austin, I mean when I think about prayer, to your point. Oftentimes there's a rush towards action. Right, we want to get, we want to move and we want to do something, but based on God's sovereignty and his will for his people, prayer is the means that he uses to keep us dependent on him, and and and, of course, we could rush out to do something. But without prayer it's, it's a nonverbal declaration that we can do this without him, which is why, oftentimes, we don't see the same kind of momentum and the same kind of, you know, the same kind of success when we go without him. And so prayer is a declaration that, lord, we want to move, we want to act and we want to see these issues resolved, we want to see healing across these lies, these lies of the vision. But we realize that it can't come without you. And so that's why we're seeking your face, that's why we're coming to you, that's why we're prying out to you as we labor, as we work, because we know we need your divine hand at work in us as we work in order to see real success, right, and so, and so, when we try to move and we try to act and we say, hey, okay, we can spend time praying or we can spend time getting something done, and we almost create this separation or these lines of division between prayer and action.
Speaker 1:What we are in fact saying even if we aren't saying it verbally, what we are in fact saying is that, god, we need to do some things, but we don't need you in order to accomplish them, so we're going to go out and do these things on our own, and prayer is the reminder that, no, god, we can't afford not to have your hand in this. And so, yeah, we want to work, yes, we want to act, but we can't afford not to have your hand in this. Nettie, you were leaning in your seat a moment ago. Tell me a little bit about what you were thinking, just in light of this conversation.
Speaker 3:Well, I was just thinking in my mind is that God has for me, god has a one item on his agenda reconciliation as a one item on his agenda. Reconciliation. This is not man thought of, this is God thought of. He gave his only begotten son, that's, whoever believing in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. We go to Ephesians 2. Jesus died to take down the barriers, take down the wall, take down the animosity, all of those things, the hostility between the Jews and Gentiles, like how you want to describe that. And so Jesus died. So this is the heart of God. So where else can we expect God to ask us about his heart? And if we have a heart that he had, certainly we can move beyond the class and culture and color and customs and things that we've set up to build these categories and divisions within our lives, whether it be denominational or racially. But as Christians we're challenged and charged and commanded to love each other, and so we believe the best way to do that is to have that way to get to know our God and recognize Him as our death. Where do you get to know God and reconciliation with God? Hey, I read a book by Samuel Hyams and he kept talking about this. God's agenda only had one item on it, and he talked about reconciliation before doing reconciliation. In other words, if we have a heart and mind, then we can do and God empowers us to do the impossible and practical all of those things. And so how else are we going to get the mind of God except through prayer? Except through prayer, we do as you've stated. Look how many have done exactly what you said. We can solve this problem. I have people that tell me oh Nick, we can solve this problem in a few days. This you know, let's just go and get this over with. Well, we're still dealing with it 30 years later, 400 years later. However, you want to look at this thing and, and I think in my own heart, when Jesus came into the world, that's what Jesus came into the world. That's what he came into the world. I just believe, as we pray and build trust among one another and how about a way to get to know God and get to know one another we can move forward together and make this thing happen in a big way, a miraculous way, as God intended for it to be.
Speaker 3:For me, it's a sad commentary on the body of Christ, that we can't come into the same place at the same time and pray for one another and that we can't use all the gifts and talents and abilities God has given us to do that. We get into prayer meetings and you know someone's got to play and you got to do it a certain way and man just cry out to God with one voice. Just cry out to God with one voice about this issue of racial division, and we get resolved. So we're praying and trusting God. So I think prayer, uh, there's no question in my mind that we would not be where we are today.
Speaker 3:Every national information, um, or certainly not where Mississippi is today, because prayer have done that. Where else can a nonprofit Christian organization do the work that we're doing and sustain that with the finance and everything over the last 30 years Got to be? It's simple, for me, it's got to be God, because, as you know and you said it earlier and also, though, people don't flock to this because it's not wonderful work. They don't flock to it because it's difficult work, it costs you something to participate in this work, and so everybody's not on board with it, and so, therefore, only God can sustain it and maintain it at a level that we can continue to do the work we have. And I would you know, I would just say, if you're interested in changing the relations in your community and your family and your faces pray.
Speaker 1:Nettie and Austin, I was thinking about your comments that you made and one of the things that really jumps out to me is that prayer, that when we're talking about prayer and the role of prayer in the work of reconciliation, it's not just that prayer has the ability and the power to change what's happening outside of us, leading to racial healing, but also prayer has the ability and the power to change what's happening in each of us, and that, too, leads to racial healing.
Speaker 1:You know, when Paul prayed in Ephesians 3 and prayed for the church at Ephesus I'm reading picking up in verse 14, he said for this reason, I bow my knees before the father from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that, according to the riches of his glory, he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have strength to comprehend, with all the saints collectively together, what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
Speaker 1:Paul is praying for an inner work that leads to a collective work, that leads to a unifying, that leads to a deeper love and appreciation, not only for Jesus, but a deeper love and appreciation for one another. And so oftentimes when we pray, we think about what prayer is going to do to those outside of us, right, and in hopes that, hey, if we pray, god's going to bring the necessary power and force to bring racial healing to the people outside of us, or to the communities outside of us, or to the relationships outside of us. But oftentimes what's happening in prayer is that God is doing something in us, and in doing something in us, there is even more power at work to change the relationships around us. So, as we reflect on God's role in changing us and that change in us leading to reconciliation outside of us, austin, how have you seen God do that in you? Or how have you seen God do that in the life of others around you?
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, I think that's really good, because I think that question is getting to what you were talking about earlier with the desire to get back into action. Uh, you know, we let's, let's go do something about this, because I think prayer is the very foundation of action, right, and I think that's been kind of the um, actually, I would say not the implication. We're actually making that fairly explicit, uh, in this podcast, that podcast, that the prayer is the action and really prayer is also the logic behind everything that we do, because, uh, logic comes from the word logos, and what is prayer but a communication with the logos, right? So, uh, I really do think prayer is the logic of everything that we do as christianity, because you can't have a solitary religion. Our Christianity is one that is rooted in relationships, and so all of our relationships are rooted towards the relationship that we have with Jesus, who is the Logos, and that relationship is mediated through our intentional prayers. So prayers then become not just the precursor to everything that we do, but actually the logic by which we do everything, because even with our actions and I think that there is some scriptural arguments that can be made for this even our actions are ones that are done in prayer, you know. So we act with fellow Christians, we do so in a prayerful manner.
Speaker 2:I mean, does that mean that we're constantly closing our eyes, bowing our heads and saying verbal utterances at all times? Not necessarily at all times. Not necessarily, though. That is important, though that is a necessary component for us to become connected with the divine. But after that we do all of our actions with one another and with God, who is constantly with us, as God resides in our hearts. We do that through living our lives as lives of prayer. So we have prayers that we have intentional time to segment, and I don't think that those times are just practice. I think those times are also just an authentic connection that we have with God, and then we have, I guess, the prayer as the logic of everything that we do. So if prayer becomes the logic of everything that we do in the work of reconciliation, prayer is not just foundational but it's the very DNA, it's every drop of blood of who we are as an organization.
Speaker 3:You know, brian, it's simple for me, I had this work of prayer and reconciliation changed me.
Speaker 3:You know, when I read the model prayer, you know, in that verse it talks about forgiving those who have trespassed against you. In that verse it talks about forgiving those who have trespassed against you and then, as he finishes that up in the 14th verse, he says don't expect God to forgive you if you're not forgiving others. So my attitude toward forgiveness, my attitude toward those who have hurt me, my ancestry, the other things, so my attitude and action now is trying to everything within me is to live out this thing of reconciliation, regardless of what has taken it to pass. I try to move beyond the past and prayer has transformed not only me but many other people in terms of how can you pray to a God and ask him to forgive you when you're not willing to forgive others? How can you pray and trust God? That's why the target audience for us are Christian, because we say that we love Jesus. We say well, jesus said if you love me, then keep my command.
Speaker 1:For me when my heart is bent towards God in prayer and I'm seeking his face regularly and authentically, honestly, truthfully, it always has the ability to change my heart towards others. As you mentioned, if there are obstructions as it relates to forgiveness and things of that nature, Prayer always has the ability to remind me of what I've received in Christ, and in reminding me of what I've received in Christ, it softens me towards those that may have treated me with ill will. But it's very difficult to spend time before God, seeking God, in the presence of God, and then and then routinely spend time in that way and then walk away from that unchanged. Transform us, change us and not just change us in terms of what's happening in us, but change us how we react and how we respond to people around us when we pray. And so so many times, like I said, we're thinking about prayer as having this impact on things that are way beyond us and in our communities, in our cities, in our nation, in our state, and it does and God is moving in that regard. But there's very much a reality where God is moving in us and what he's doing in us has incredible power to transform the things that are happening around us.
Speaker 1:I want to put a bow on this conversation and this discussion for today by asking you guys if y'all don't mind we talk about prayer changing things and prayer having the power to change things. Would you mind sharing one story, one testimony of each where you have seen prayer literally change things, change relationships, change people in the way that they even view this issue of race and ethnicity, and black and white Talk a little bit about how prayer has literally changed some folk in your experience in the work of reconciliation no-transcript NFL culture.
Speaker 2:He became addicted to methamphetamines, lost his career in football, was able to acquire a wife at some point. It became a strange for his wife, a strange for his mother and father, but still tried to have some sort of a relationship with them and things along those lines. So Christmas Eve he came to my church, just kind of stumbled in from off the streets. We had a person who was just uniquely set apart and capable of dealing with somebody like this young man, and so we began to minister to him. Now what happened? And this was the prayers we were doing we were praying that somehow our church could respond in a way to the positive to this young man. Unfortunately he relapsed and he ended up moving off and spending some time in jail and he has since passed and he was very young, probably only about our age, brian, but he passed at an early age. Our age, brian, but he passed at an early age.
Speaker 2:But part of the prayers that were answered by the church and by myself was through the intentional relationship that the church had with his mother, and his mother started, through the church, a tutoring program specifically to try to address and help young men like her son to be able to acquire the type of skills to be able to make the good types of choices. That when you do find success. You know, intelligence and raw skill and talent is one thing, making proper choices is another. When you are is a is a is another. When you are, when you are, you know, when you do have an opportunity to to do things like that.
Speaker 2:So she wanted to treat so she. She, through the church, was able to reach out to the neighborhood about that. You know, and and and in board and prayers, you know, we thought we were praying for a positive resolution for this young man specifically, but the prayers ended up being answered through motivating us to say, okay, what can we do for people in the Ga and not just partner with it, who, who can come in and we can just be like, how can we serve alongside you? And just being able to see that type of attitude and see how. That was born out of prayers, because the prayers were definitely for the young man, but it ended up being answered in a different way. Uh, so that's, that's that's how I would answer your question, brian.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, that's powerful man, and you're pointing not only to the power of prayer, um, but how the lord can use tragedy in the soil of tragedy, um to to, to bloom, you know, to spring forth and bloom. You know beauty, um. He. He oftentimes uses the ashes of tragedy and suffering and pain to bring forth beautiful things, and that story is a testament of that. Nettie, wrap us up, man. Give us one story you got thousands of stories one story that answers the question of how prayer can actually change things when it comes to the work of reconciliation. Give us a story about a relationship or a person whose heart was cold to this idea of racial healing, but through the power of prayer and prayer, breakfasts and prayer gatherings, hearts were awakened or opened up. Give us one of your thousands, you know you're right, I can afford to several.
Speaker 3:One that always stands out in my heart is that when I were in Mississippi, wanted to deal with the poor and the food pantry and all of those things in their community, all the denominations up there, what's so amazing for me was the Church of the Living God. The Missionary Baptist, southern Baptist, the Catholics, the Episcopalians, the Presbyterians were all part of the group and they were praying together. Well, you know, after eight or nine years of just being together, praying with one another on a regular basis, they came together and pooled their money and resources and opened up this care center in Avery and I'm thinking, man, everything that you can think of in terms of crossing lines was in that room and Rachel was the high supporter of all of that. But because of prayer, I also was further. Because of prayer, they came together in trust and respect for one another enough to get over their demarcations. Their distinguishes, their distinguishes at Dalton were good. They came together in one room.
Speaker 3:Also, I remember an all-black school. We were having a day of dialogue and prayer. We was having prayer for each other, day of dialogue and prayer. We was having prayer for each other. The day of dialogue and and this all black school had, uh, selected this white student. Well, I said, it's all black, 95 or 96% black had selected this white girl as the queen. And this one black female in the room she was the leader of one of the communities up there. I told her and you could see it in her expression, her face, it was like this was the ultimate for her. I don't know, discrimination, racism, whatever it is. She didn't like it. And one of the other participants in the room said, an elder gentleman says you know, I thought it was so gracious of them to do that. You could see this other person in the room just kind of melt. Now this is after we've had prayer around the table together and that discussion came up and you could see her animosity, hostility, all the stuff that was in her just kind of melted away through facial expression, through action, and she began to tear up.
Speaker 3:Man, I tell you it was a moment there, and so I've also heard Pastor Jenkins tell this on many occasions that he thought he was beyond this race stuff. He started praying on a regular basis with me and with other men and his heart showed God, showed him in prayer some things that he needed to deal with. Even Robin Bars, Gateway Church in Dallas, saying one of his testimonies you know he has an African-American son-in-law and you know he wasn't about space. He was at prayer one day and God showed him and said that's some issues you've got to deal with and it had to do with race. And so you know, brian, we talk about shared spaces. Man, when we get into shared stories and shared experiences, things change. Into shared stories and shared experiences. Things change. Things move from school level, swallow talk, everybody's happy kumbaya. It begins to deal with the heart of the person, of the people, and out of that come the reconciliation that God really wants us to have. And so prayer is the key to all of that.
Speaker 3:Again, the major DNA proponent of Mississippi's prayer and the backbone of it is and you know what, when I interact with not only Mississippi but across the state of Mississippi, but across this nation, I find that ministries that deal with this reconciliation in a serious way they talk a lot about prayer. Tony Evans talks a lot about prayer and so, man, he got series after series on prayer and how so important that people overcome the challenges and the difficulties of race relations or any other aspect of our community. Prayer is the key component. It transforms communities and that's what we're about to do and transform the community to live in our reconciliation. And that affects the economics, the social.
Speaker 3:If you find a part of the fabric of our community, if you find a part of the fabric of our community, when you start praying and start working across those demarcations, lives that have traditionally separated us, discredited the race, we'll find that a lot of the problems that we face will just disintegrate in terms of going away because of the relationships that is forged together as a result of praying together. So I challenge folks if you want something, if you are really wanting to change the way your community is operating, get on your knees with people of different backgrounds, different cultures than you and start praying together. You'll see God move in ways that you can't even imagine. That's not a recap about prayer. Prayer is seriously needed in every arena, every fabric of our community. Prayer is needed. That's what we ought to start and move from that prayer Amen.
Speaker 1:Amen I think that's a good way to cap our discussion for the day and, austin Nettie, thank you, guys for reminding us of the power that is found in prayer. I want to encourage you guys, if you're listening, to please heed these words, take heed to these words, and to consider your first step in any work of reconciliation, no matter what community you may be stationed in, your first step needs to be a healthy prayer movement, and so, if you are thinking about ways to embark on reconciliation, of course Mission Mississippi stands by, eager to help and assist, but please take note that the first thing that we will start with is a healthy movement of prayer, and we want to encourage you to think in that direction, as we desire to see God transform our communities, our cities and our state. Thank you, guys, so much for joining us.
Speaker 1:Feel free to subscribe to Living Reconciled. Go out to any podcast app and search for Living Reconciled, mission Mississippi, and you can click the subscribe button. Also, feel free to, as you're listening to these episodes, to like and share these episodes with friends, family and church members and colleagues at work, if you believe that they're fruitful and can serve your friends, family, colleagues at work and church members in their own pursuit of racial healing and reconciliation. Again, it's been a great pleasure. My name is Brian Crawford. I'm with my good friends and host, austin Hoyle, nettie Winters, signing off saying God bless, god bless, god bless. Thanks for joining, living Reconciled. If you would like more information on how you can be a part of the ongoing work of helping, god bless. Thanks again for listening.