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Join us Brian, Austin, and Neddie as they unpack how to "agree to disagree" in a healthy way. You'll discover why total agreement isn't necessary for meaningful relationships and how healthy disagreements can actually deepen our bonds and enhance mutual understanding.
They also explore how to navigate disagreements with the aim of "winning the brother" rather than just the argument. Don't miss this great conversation on building right relationships and fostering unity even in disagreement.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters
We would love to hear from you! Send us a text message.
Join us Brian, Austin, and Neddie as they unpack how to "agree to disagree" in a healthy way. You'll discover why total agreement isn't necessary for meaningful relationships and how healthy disagreements can actually deepen our bonds and enhance mutual understanding.
They also explore how to navigate disagreements with the aim of "winning the brother" rather than just the argument. Don't miss this great conversation on building right relationships and fostering unity even in disagreement.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated to giving our communities practical evidence of the gospel message by helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured for us by living with grace across racial lines. Hey, thanks so much for joining us on episode 51 of Living Reconciled. This is Brian Crawford, your host, and I am spending some time today with some really good friends. Dr Austin Hoyle.
Speaker 1:Netty Winters. You know, austin, he pauses before we call out names. I'm like, well, what you know it's a silent like it's something that's going to explode between the time he announces who his really really good friends are and then name them.
Speaker 2:Well, what I think he's doing there, because he used to come up with a really big word to describe us and I think he's thinking of one. He's thinking not worth it. Yeah, yeah, that's a possibility.
Speaker 3:That's a possibility, but not worth it. But no, there's a pause for dramatic effect.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're waiting for the audience. You're like dramatic. Oh yeah, dramatic. Hey, you thought it was dramatic. No, it's just.
Speaker 2:Hey, we actually have sound effects on our board. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And board. Yeah, yeah and um. You should probably utilize them. No, this is the silence. This is more suspenseful. The silence is like dramatic. Who will be his co-host this week? Huh, will it still be austin hoyle and netty winters? Are they still his friends? These and other questions. Hey, I love you, brian.
Speaker 2:These and these and other questions I've said today. I met you. I've always considered you one of the most uh amazing that I've ever met.
Speaker 1:I'm going to wear my boots.
Speaker 3:I didn't realize we were on that shaky ground. No, you're not on that kind of shaky ground, but it's that silence that creates the suspense.
Speaker 1:Okay, it creates the suspense. He want to give great anticipation to our audience. That's it. I get it. They're really incredible friends, are they really?
Speaker 3:has a turn. Have they had a riff? Because they couldn't agree to disagree? You like that? Segue, austin.
Speaker 3:Special thanks to our friends and our sponsors, folks like Nissan, st Dominic's Hospital, atmos Energy, regents Foundation, brown Missionary Baptist Church, christian Life Church, miss Doris Powell, mr Robert Ward, miss Ann Winters. Thank you so much for everything that you do. It's because of what you do we're able to do what we do. And if you aren't yet supporting the work of Mission Mississippi, what are you waiting on? You can always do that. Go to MissionMississippiorg, mississippi. Dot o r g. Click on the donate button at the top and you too can join these, this illustrious list of friends and sponsors who support this work and support this podcast Today. Gentlemen, there is a proverb that tells us how can two friends walk unless they agree, walk unless they agree? And that has introduced at times, all sorts of hurdles and all sorts of conflict where people say to themselves Austin, if I can't agree with you on things both big and small, then I simply can't walk with Austin. Nettie, if I can't agree with you on all things, big and small, then I can't walk with Nettie.
Speaker 1:You know, uh, brian um but you had all things, big and small, that I can't walk with Nettie. You know, brian, you and I will say two peas and two pods in the same. No, it's two peas in a pod.
Speaker 3:Peas in a pod yeah, but if you want to go a different direction, we can agree to disagree.
Speaker 2:I think the pods are inside the peas as well. I'm with you.
Speaker 1:For years in the beginning of Mississippi, for the last 30 plus years, that, as you said, how can two walk unless they agree? Is that what you just said? The anti-racism teams and reconciliation team, others in training and equipping folks. You know, when I showed up at one of these really spiritual discussions or workshops they're really spiritual man and well, you know, I said you know, our issue is race, our issue is race, Our issue is loving each other across the racial divide. And then I can do that but I can't let them cause. And then I named some extremist thing that has nothing to do with nothing in any sense of the word and use that proverb as a reason why they can't attend a meeting or be in the same room with folks or whatever else. And then I look at them and they're in partnership with the same groups in some sense of missions or something. So anyway, I'm really interested in how we're going to work. Man, I'm loving this already.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean the passage comes by the way. I mean we're saying proverb because of the type of language used and it's more of a kind of a historical wisdom that has been taken out of context, but it's actually a passage in Amos Amos 3, 3, where you hear this proverbial statement how can two walk together unless they agree? And, as Nettie, as you highlighted, we've taken that to mean that I have to agree with Nettie on all of the dots and the I's and the crosses and the T's in order to have fellowship and relationship. And what we want to talk about today in particular is how can we learn how to disagree in a healthy way, not in a passive, aggressive way where we're being dismissive of one another, but in a way that leads to deeper understanding, that leads to greater encouragement and don't get to deeper relations, don't get to silent treatment.
Speaker 2:And also just deeper, deeper conversation, deeper conversation as well. Um, as one of the one of of the articles you had us read in preparation for this talked about debates and just how we can utilize the conversations that we have, and really, I guess, just the whole process of debate, because he was just talking about the best debates that he ever or this person ever walked through was ones where they had to be careful with their language because they cared about the relationship at the end of the conversation.
Speaker 3:I just want to ask a question. Why is it, do you believe, gentlemen, why is it important for us to be able to agree to disagree? What benefits are there in having the capacity and the ability to agree to disagree?
Speaker 2:Agree to disagree. The way I see it, first of all you have the disagreement, you have the intellectual problem that neither of you can come to the same perspective on, and then you are agreeing to do that that disagreement. The first part of it is an intellectual move, the second part of it is, I believe, a heart mood. So you are agreeing, your hearts are saying that your minds cannot come to the same statement with one another. But because the relationship is important, the relationship is important enough to be able to either set aside the disagreement or be able to approach the disagreement from two opposing sides for the sake of conversation.
Speaker 3:That's one advantage. Let me throw another advantage at you. While you think about it, nettie, you jump in. You got an advantage as well.
Speaker 1:You know, when I think about agreeing to disagree agreeably, I'm thinking you're more important than whatever the issue is, and that we're not in here to win a debate. We're not here to win the fight, we're not in here to do all that. We're here to enlighten, encourage and do some kind of education, maybe in terms of how can we really flush this out, Because you know, Nettie, I may have the whole thing cop before the horse, the cow by the tail. However, you want to put that and a discussion with us a great affront. That we're not going to get angry at each other, we're not going to do it in a disagreeable way, but we're going to disagree on subjects. There's not a human, in my opinion, there's not a human being alive that can have a discussion with another person and they agree on everything.
Speaker 2:I just don't think that's possible. Yeah, that's an impossibility. I disagree with things I've done this morning.
Speaker 3:Right, I'm not that schizophrenic but anyway, Austin, Austin is disagreeing about his lunch Dog on it. I want a chicken and I chose something else today I at least give it 24 hours before I disagree with it, man Wait turn my stomach up.
Speaker 2:I'm like myself. Six, six hours ago is a very different person than I am now, yeah, I pick salad and I want a chicken.
Speaker 3:I want a chicken for a third day in a row and I pick salad. Hey, let me. Let me throw this out here too, because one of the benefits in carrying the capacity to, to, to argue in a healthy way, to, to agree, to disagree, is that you expand your wisdom and you expand your knowledge capacity, because one of the things that happens when you don't have the ability to disagree is you close off any perspective that's not like your own Right, not like your own. You just continue to remain blind to so many different things that you just don't have the ability to listen long enough to be exposed to.
Speaker 1:Did you just say that this is not a cloning process? Absolutely, absolutely. I think we go into conversation many times and oftentimes especially, what birds of a feather flying together. I think we go into the conversation to clone folks, to sanitize their thinking, as it relates to anything they would disagree with our position or our statement or whatever else. It's like man, that's not no.
Speaker 2:That's so funny. You would say that Actually I think I was telling you, brian, earlier that I would actually really very much so somebody be a little bit ugly to me and and and expressing their authentic views. Then remain entirely quiet and and and be at the first scenario, because then you have something to work with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know you got to, you got to know where they stand and silence doesn't give you you know your mind reader or body movement reader or something you know really don't know where they stand, yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, right, yeah, I mean one of the things that we, we we stress here at Mission, mississippi and even at MC School of Law, we have the opportunity to do some little bit of training in a seminar that we do with their 1L and 2L students. But one of the things we talk about is this axiom of humility. We call it the four axioms, or the four laws of humility, and one, one of the first law is that nobody's perfect, um, which means that if nobody is perfect, then that means none of us have all the answers. None of us are omniscient, we are not all knowing, we are not God.
Speaker 3:The ability to agree, to disagree, is a way to communicate that in our lives.
Speaker 3:What we do when we don't allow disagreement is basically we're saying, listen, I'm right on all things, and so there's no need to listen to you, austin, there's no need to even have, you know, healthy pushback with you, because I'm right on all things, and so if we don't agree, it's obviously that you're wrong. And that's the most arrogant posture and position that we can take when we open ourselves up to disagreement. What we're saying is listen, I don't have all the answers, I could absolutely be wrong on some things, which is why I am availing myself to the type of conversations where I can receive pushback, where I can receive new perspective, where I can receive new ideas, where I can receive more background from people's different, varying experiences. You know, most of the time when you have these conversations and people find themselves being unwilling to disagree, it's typically in a situation where people have convinced themselves that, whatever perspective that they hold about whatever that exists in these matters of life, they have the right perspective and that there are no alternative perspectives that need to be considered.
Speaker 2:Or, if not, the right perspective they have, the perspective that brings them about the greatest amount of life for themselves and for the persons who are close to them, because I would venture to say it has a lot less to do with thinking that they are objectively right on a philosophical level, and more so they're saying that the that uh, for me to say that there's another alternative view out there, that is, that is that is credible, or for me to uh, for me to attempt to understand that is to uh is, is to lessen my capacity to argue for things in my own.
Speaker 3:Yeah, now you're. Now you're talking about identity as as grounds for the reason why I cut cut conversations. Identity can be a part of it. Yeah, absolutely, because it's probably a range of other things, I'll shut.
Speaker 2:I'll shut a conversation down because I'm concerned about what this conversation means about me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, because I think there's probably a range of other things, I'll shut. I'll shut a conversation down because I'm concerned about what this conversation means about me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or it may may make my life harder if the converse were to be true. Because I, you know, I either economical views, economical, uh, views, the old adage the truth hurts Losing. Losing in pride a little bit, you know, any number, any number of benefits, or or something along, along, along those lines, you lose something Absolutely Because because you, you well, you have to to to a certain degree, and I'll, I'll bring that up a little bit later.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. And then to jump in, you had something you were.
Speaker 1:You know, I just think we give credence, credibility to the things that we've experienced. We have our background, our culture, what we feel comfortable with not getting outside our comfort zone, et cetera, et cetera. As Austin was saying a minute ago, that's the part that gives me the most life. But at the same time, I may be in a position of not thinking I know it all, but in a position of I don't know anything at all and I'm insecure. I'm insecure about what I do know, and you know, for instance, sometime I think how do I say this? Uh, back during the early years of working across racial and denominational lines, even working in communities where there is different faith beliefs Mormons, muslim, jews, universalists, seventh-day Adventists and others I've been in groups where, if it was in the community, they was part of the group, and I had my Christian brothers and sisters saying you know, why are you there? What are you doing there, aren't you? You know, and I'm thinking to myself, I don't have anything to be afraid of here, so why wouldn't I be in this group? Are these people the very people that we say, we say as Christians, those people are lost, or they, you know, they don't know what's good for them or whatever how we say that. So you know, I don't know. When I go to the mechanic, I don't say, man, are you a Christian? You know I don't know. When I go to the mechanic, I don't say, man, are you a Christian? When I go to the pharmacy, I don't. Even. If I did say that to them, it wouldn't hinder me from purchasing whatever I'm getting ready to purchase from.
Speaker 1:I may ask that question sometime because I want to witness to them of connection with folks, in discussion with folks, and sometimes we even have discussion with folks that we believe it's always interesting to me. There are people that approach me sometimes and they've already sized me up you vote Democrat, you black. You know you're going to vote Democrat, or you're going to like this kind of music or it just blows me away. You're like man, I don't like that music. They got this box, they put me in.
Speaker 1:You know I'm thinking I don't fit that box. Well, I don't understand why you don't fit that box. Then they go through all the reasons why I would be in the box. Right, because you look the part, you sound the part, or whatever. You come from the background part and it's like okay, okay, okay, well, so we have these discussions and I go back to your original question, brian, about this agreeable, let's disagree agreeable. Well, you know what is the whole purpose of us having the conversation to begin with. If we're going to have a conversation, that's why we, from a Michigan City perspective, push people to be in diverse groups as it relates to race and other differences, so that we can get a perspective different from our own.
Speaker 3:You know, nettie, you mentioned something earlier that I think is really instrumental in this journey of being able to argue in healthy ways and even come to some conclusions where you don't agree. If the reason and the purpose starts with purpose starts with I need to win, then you're already on faulty ground. Oh yeah, and so many times that's quicksand quick.
Speaker 2:That's quicksand. Well, the way I see it, me winning it is the argument going well in the relationship. Yeah, that's why you like. So yes, I have to win it.
Speaker 3:But seriously, I was going to push it out of earlier, but you can do it.
Speaker 3:But the idea to, when you start on that ground and sometimes we're not honest with ourselves because that's because that's in play even in our own homes even in our own homes, there'll be a, there'll be a discussion, a heated debate or an argument that we're having with our spouses, a heated debate or an argument that we're having with our spouses, and at the heart of that there will be the need to win. That we won't even, we won't even clue ourselves in on that. That's what's happening, but it shapes the entire way we have that argument. It shapes the way we have that entire discussion. We cancel out details that are not conducive to us winning Right and we elevate details that are conducive to us winning, even if those details are small and insignificant.
Speaker 3:But I think when we're in the midst of these conversations, in our culture we've been discipled to have arguments to win rather than to have or to engage in arguments and discussions. To grow and to engage in arguments and discussions as an expression of love for one another and a decision and a commitment to understand one another. And that's where the ground zero begins for us is that we can't be committed to just simply winning. We have to be committed to growing with one another, growing in unity with one another.
Speaker 1:I must create an environment, both in my own mindset to begin with and in the environment. I'm in to know that this is about getting to know and understanding one another. Why don't we ever agree on everything? Really, if we go into that conversation, like you told me, we just smile. You go into the conversation, you know, you're just like, you just think, you write about everything. Yeah, yeah, you know, you're just not right here and so you're pulling out all the stops to get a win and you're like, really, and afterwards you sit there even if you think you won, you still haven't won, because you know now you've got the silent treatment for the next three days. So what do you do with that? But we want to create an environment where it's safe to have the conversation that we can unfold. People won't be hesitant or reluctant Many times.
Speaker 1:You know, I was in an article that we read. It talked about the champions, how many times they lose because it's just impossible to win everything. That just don't happen. And one guy was talking about it. Even the greatest debate champions lose, right, and he was talking about man. I be sitting there listening to the people I'm debating and I be shaking my head, nodding my head and agreeing with it. Understanding. Now I got to figure out a rebuttal to build my debate on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those instances where we are in a situation where we're having a good or just rigorous conversation.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you're going to get a little bit disagreeable, but it's actually.
Speaker 2:I don't really view that as a terrible thing in our tone, especially if you can walk away with a relationship because there are people out there, you know, I can have a knock down, drag out, debate and fight with and we can disagree on on so many different things and.
Speaker 2:But but if they are of the right temperament and and and I'm of the right mood, um, we can typically um walk away and in fact, what will end up happening is, um, I've been in situations where halfway through the argument I ended up arguing for their side. They already ended up arguing for my side and that was because we realized we're we're talking to a person that we can uh, we can really navigate. We can navigate the full spectrum of perspectives and ideas on that particular topic with, and those, to me, are the best ones when I'm allowed to drop my side of the argument and take up the other person's and they kind of do the same. I'm thinking just three or four people in the world that I've been able to do that with and it's just, it just works out so beautifully. Those are the best conversations is.
Speaker 1:Is this agreeable to be disagree? Agreeable is that a disarming effect us to.
Speaker 3:I think you're able to do well, yes, yes, I think I think you you know my wife and I in marriage counseling we, we have this saying that we share with people. We, we, we use it all the time. We probably shared it on this podcast. You have to come to come to a decision as to whether or not you want to speak or whether you want to be heard. Do that in a healthy way is part of the journey towards being heard.
Speaker 3:If you feel like and sometimes it's important to speak, and we share that too there are times where it's important to speak. We see that in the minor prophets, in the major prophets in scripture, where sometimes it was just important to put it out there and make a note and they spoke. But there's there's also plenty of occasions, and far more the the regular and the norm, where what we're trying to do is we're actually trying to be heard, and part of the way that you can actually be heard is learning how to disagree and argue in healthy and loving ways and and move from a posture of trying to win an argument to a posture of trying to win a brother or sister.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly, and because those types of knock down, drag out arguments I've been a part of it had that tone, or it had that end, or it had that heart into it that we, you know, it was allowed to be very vigorous and you know, but at the same time produce a good relationship at the end. You know, I was thinking, uh, you know you, you gave me the whole heard. Or uh, yep, you want to speak to the umb, or speak, or heard? I did that to my wife one time and yeah, you know, of course, her response. I was trying to give her good, sage-like advice. She says I'm going to speak and be her.
Speaker 3:I was like, yes, ma'am yeah, yeah, yeah and and probably and probably, in the case of talking about the idea to tear your own smile in the case of austin, she did speak and she was her, she was, she did speak. It actually worked out well. Yeah, she worked out how to walk in and do both. It worked out well for you. It worked out.
Speaker 2:You missed and we all did yeah I didn't know well, I was trying to help her out on another, another instance no, not with me and uh, and she spoke and she was hurt. She was spoke, and she spoke, and she was hurt every once in a while that happened which came up with you, and now the situation she's spoken now. Now, if I had walked in there and saying I'm going to speak and be heard in that situation, it just wouldn't have worked.
Speaker 1:Probably temperaments, yeah, yeah you know, I call it fighting fair, I call it having your facts and information accurate and complete. Sometimes we get into these things with this agree and disagree. I get it all mixed up. But anyway, to agree, to be to disagree agreeably and whatever else. I think sometimes we go from reason. We had to set those things up because it goes from discussing an issue to personal attack. So how do you set it up in such a way that you may not need to disagree agreeably? When you set it up in such a way that you understand that this is not about taking out the other person or taking the person down. This is about an issue that we're trying to resolve, an issue that we want solutions to, an issue that we need to move forward with. How do we communicate with each other to have a sense of moving forward together and not get stuck? Sometimes we run out of speaking points, if I can say it that way, or bullet points.
Speaker 1:Now, because I don't have any substantial substance to my argument now, I just start talking about your appearance or you know, all of you guys, all of you, you know it becomes personal, and so our goal is to, I think, to fight fair, in that maybe we can put some rules in place, some ground rules, other things in place, to hear that we're going to conduct this conversation. That really shouldn't be. That's the point I was getting to. That really shouldn't be between brothers and sisters.
Speaker 1:It should be where we can sit down, have this conversation and not make declinations and all these other things, because it's understood that I love you, I care about you. I've demonstrated that to you. So therefore, that shouldn't be in a place we shouldn't have. We don't have to be so touchy about the ground we cover and tiptoe through the tulips, as they would say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, I find when you are in conversation you model that, the capacity to be able to have deep conversation, you have the ability to shape the room. You yeah, exactly you have really have the ability to shake the room the way the way you can.
Speaker 1:We brought him man. He always cleared up so simple. You can either mirror.
Speaker 3:you can either mirror the, the, the style or the, or the attitude, the way the conversation is happening, or you can deflect it by the way you respond. And so if someone's coming in, flame it, yeah. Or you can deflect it by the way you respond. And so if someone's coming in and flame it, yeah, or you can inflame it, you can agitate, or or or so. So if you mirror, then yeah, you'll, probably it'll, it'll continue to intensify, or you can say wait a second, I'm going to. You know, in fact, you know, we we talked about some of the articles that we were reading about this, and one of the articles he mentions one of the steps to having healthy arguments is to embrace vulnerability, and there's always that moment, at a very heated argument, where you'll say, well, hey, I didn't start this and so I'm not giving any ground here, I'm not the one that needs to pipe down, it's you who needs to pipe down. So I'm going to continue to intensify. But there's a what happens. What happens? I'm?
Speaker 2:writing. I'm speaking Exactly yeah.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Yeah. Well, what happens to this scripture that says turn the?
Speaker 3:other cheek. There you go. And so it's that kind of vulnerability where you say, oh man, I'm going to. I might come out of this argument looking like I'm losing, but it's worth winning my brother, or winning my sister, or even worth exemplifying the gospel in the way that I argue, and so I'm going to embrace that vulnerable moment that I'm in.
Speaker 1:Maybe we should find some new terminology the word argy and the word I use the word fight. You use the word argy.
Speaker 2:I do knock down, drag out, yeah.
Speaker 1:Those conjure up all kinds of images.
Speaker 3:Well, if you notice, I'm prefacing all of it with healthy.
Speaker 2:Healthy debate, healthy argument and this is either informal or formal circumstances.
Speaker 3:Healthy conflict Because conflict is necessary, absolutely and it's inevitable. How do we do it in a healthy way? How do we do it in a healthy way?
Speaker 2:Because so much part of the conflict I experience. I think this guy just walked around looking for a fight I do Part of. You know so much of the conflict. Yeah, they're fine For me, they're healthy, I can handle them.
Speaker 2:Um, no, but for, for me, so many of the arguments that I do have, uh, it's, it's coming out of my home, so you know, but, but if I don't have my, my, my wife, who's there? You know, iron, sharpening iron, it's definitely a role of uh, of spouses to be there for one another, wives to be there for one another. You know, if I didn't have that kind of sharpening tool, so to speak, then on a daily basis which, yeah, it's not necessarily comfortable all the time and this is the person in the world who knows me the most, who loves me the best we disagree on a wide range of things. That's the reason why I'm capable of being so disagreeable. But, um or no, no, I'm a cape. I'm a capable of being agreeable in disagreeable situations. I'm also capable of being very disagreeable in agreeable situations. So I I usually pick the opposite of what you should do in a situation. But what I'm noticing with my wife is just, it can be very formative is what I'm trying to say. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:And one question that we haven't really touched upon is what do we do about situations when we have? What about agree to disagree when it comes to some of the very nuts and bolts, significant aspects of stuff like the gospel, because you're mentioning, you know, we need to behave in such a way where we exemplify the gospel. Now, what if the two people have they're both committed Christians, but they just have very different understandings and nuances of what the gospel looks like and tells? So I mean, the best bet I can say is you know, stick to your values, articulate your perspective as best as possible that's what they say, because there should be non-negotiables, like.
Speaker 2:There are those things in our lives where, just like, non-negotiably, I believe this is true, yeah, and that, if I believe, you know, and with the Christian faith, we're saying that if certain people don't have certain beliefs or understanding and in certain ways that are connected with either scripture or just the historical witness of the scripture and of salvation, we may have to say well, I don't know if you're saved, right, yeah, but the person saying is well, I don't know if you're saved, right, yeah, but the person saying is oh, I am saved.
Speaker 2:It's like, yeah, but you don't have this or that, and I don't want to reduce the Christian faith to doctrine but, you don't have this or that doctrinal view that is really central to who we are, such as resurrection, say someone denies the resurrection, it's like, yeah, I can't say in that instance, agree to disagree, still saying you're a.
Speaker 3:Christian. Well, I was about to say that's the thing. I guess what I'm articulating is that we can exist in such a way where we can articulate our convictions with compassion. So we don't have to muzzle our convictions, we just have to learn how to articulate those convictions in healthy ways.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And in loving ways and in ways that are seeking to win a brother, even if that conviction is an existential and an eternal truth, right that we're rubbing up against one another on, we can still communicate those things in ways that is moving towards not just simply winning the debate, but winning the brother, winning the sister. And so, you know, let's wrap up, because we got to, unfortunately, wrap up here, uh, for for a number of different reasons, but there there's a couple of things that that were given to us one taking, taking winning off the table. That's obviously what we've talked about. The goal is not to win, yeah, um, the argument. The goal is to win, um, relationship, which leads to number two, and this and this.
Speaker 3:These tips were written from the Better Arguments Project. But but tip number two prioritize relationships and listen, and listen passionately, listen passionately. Put more emphasis into hearing than simply talking and articulating one's view. Number three pay attention to the context. Every argument has a story, every argument has background, and being committed to hearing the story and learning the story and understanding the context behind the argument is just as important oftentimes as hearing the argument itself. And it better, it better prepares you to engage in the discussion. And then I mentioned embrace, vulnerability, being open and willing to be wrong, being open and willing to to extend grace where you don't feel like grace is being extended, or mercy when you don't feel like mercy is being extended, and then, lastly, be open. Reality is that, hey, you are not God and none of us are God, and so we could certainly be wrong, right and always holding that reality.
Speaker 1:When I think about what you just said, I think about Romans 12. What Paul says in the first verse, he says present yourselves. So he says right relationship with God equals right relationship with ourselves. Right relationship with God, right relationship with ourselves equals right relationship with others. And then he describes those relationships as brothers and sisters, people that don't believe the way we believe, those that even classify themselves as enemy of ours. He gives us a way to articulate our beliefs, our convictions, without condemning or condoning the other person. And so, in that sense, you made your tips. You talk about relationship. I think relationship is the key to all what we've talked about Right relationships, in that we set the table, have a safe discussion, but at the same time that's the thing we don't need to unfold and go into it until the relationship is at the level that both parties can be able to handle.
Speaker 3:Amen, nettie Austin, thank you for your time. Thank you for being friends that I can agree to disagree with. It's been a great episode with Nettie Winters, Austin Hoyle, episode 51. Feel free to like, share, subscribe to the Living Reconciled podcast. You can always do that by going to any podcast app and searching on Living Reconciled. Nettie Winters, austin Hoyle, brian Crawford, signing off saying God bless, god bless. Thanks for joining Living Reconciled. If you would like more information on how you can be a part of the ongoing work of helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured, please visit us online at missionmississippiorg or call us at 601-353-6477. Thanks again for listening.