Coast to Coast Chaos: New York and LA Spark the American Punk Revolution! (Part One)

When the dreams and promises you’ve placed your hopes in end up being a mirage, its only human to feel angry.  In the mid 1970’s, a lot of teens and young adults found themselves in this camp.  The nation’s shift toward a decidedly more cynical era could be heard in anti-war statements such as "War is not healthy for children and other living things"  On the equal rights agenda, the demand for black civil rights encouraged a louder beating of the drum as seen in the rise of feminism.  At the same time, both movements continued receiving backlash from the country’s conservatives, especially The "Silent Majority" campaign, responding to the ‘liberal excesses’ of the counterculture.

Running through everything, there was a feeling that the social changes that the ‘60s had promised were as far away as ever.  America’s kids were caught in the cross-hairs.  America was experiencing an epidemic of frustration, anxiety and anger.  

With nothing to do, and a sense that the walls were closing in, teens living in places like New York, Detroit and Los Angeles, swam in an ocean of boredom and alienation that needed venting.  Punk’s rawness and DIY attitude made it easy for anyone who had the need to hit back, or at least spit into the audience, to become an anti-hero. 

 In this first of two episodes on the origins of American Punk, we draw a through line from early New York proto-punk bands like the Velvet Underground, the MC5 and the New York Dolls through to California bands like X, Black Flag and the Dead Kennedy's.  You'll come away understanding how the idealism of the 1960's gave way to the cynicism and anger of the 1970's punk movement.  And yet, through it all, America's kids were still demanding change and even in the cynicism, holding out for something better.

In This Episode

• John Lennon - Give Me Some Truth
• Scene from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
• the Rolling Stones - Gimme Shelter
• TV News – End of Vietnam War
• Scene from “Network”
• Scene from the Godfather
• The Clash – Police on My Back
• Pink Floyd – Have a Cigar
• The MC5 – Kick Out the Jams
• The Stooges – I Wanna Be Your Dog
• Iggy Pop – Interview
• The Velvet Underground – Venus in Furs
• The New York Dolls – Jet Boy
• David Bowie – Suffragette
• David Bowie – Interview
• Davie Bowie – Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars
• David Bowie – Rock and Roll Suicide
• The Ramones – Blitzkrieg Bop
• The Ramones - Interview

Links to related show content from prior episodes
This episode refers back to a few topics covered in prior episodes.
We invite you to learn more about these ideas!
Use the links, below. 

Minimalism
https://americansong.buzzsprout.com/1622638/9672982-the-celestial-pulse-of-minimalism

The Blues
https://americansong.buzzsprout.com/1622638/8276409-the-duality-of-the-blues-episode-7-of-american-song

 Call and Response
https://americansong.buzzsprout.com/1622638/8532047-the-rising-of-gospel-music-and-how-it-inspired-the-world

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

At the close of the 1960s, many of the strongest influencers in the period's idealism felt like you do the morning after a real wild party All hungover, a taste in your mouth. That's a lot like an overfilled ashtray and too much like you'd been rolled over by a tank. You can hear it in the things people were saying at the time. Things like the 60s ended at Kent State. That was Tom Wolfe. The American dream became the nightmare. That was Hunter S Thompson. The 60s had the audacity to hope and that was its greatness. But it didn't deliver. Marlon Brando said that I woke up this morning, found my head was full of stars. I said it's over, but my heart it wouldn't break. That was Leonard Cohen and one of the four lads who kicked off the youth revolution to begin with. John Lennon said All I want is the truth.

Speaker 2: 1:04

I'm sick and tired of hearing things from uptight, short-sighted, narrow-minded hypocritics. All I want is the truth. Just give me some truth. I've had enough of reading things by neurotic, psychotic, pig-headed politicians.

Speaker 1: 1:27

All I want is the truth. When the dreams and promises that you've placed your hopes in end up being a mirage, it's only human to feel angry. In the mid-1970s, a lot of teens and young adults found themselves in this camp. The nation's shift toward a decidedly more cynical era could be heard in anti-war statements such as war is not healthy for children or other living things. On the equal rights agenda, the demand for black civil rights encouraged a louder beating of the drum, as seen in the rise of feminism. At the same time, both movements continued receiving backlash from the country's conservatives, especially the Silent Majority campaign responding to the liberal excesses of the counterculture. Meanwhile, Hunter S Thompson's satire Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas perfectly captured the disillusionment and cynicism of the 1970s.

Speaker 3: 2:34

We had two bags of grass, 75 pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker, half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multicolcolored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers. Also a quarter tequila, quarter rum, case of beer, pint of raw ether, two dozen amos. Not that we need it all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.

Speaker 2: 3:03

Hot damn, I never rode in a convertible before.

Speaker 1: 3:16

While on screen One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest with Jack Nicholson was a classic film about mental health and institutional oppression. It resonated with the pervasive anti-establishment sentiment of film times. But I gotta tell you I'm not sure which situation was worse the one where Nurse Ratched was sicker than any of the inmates, or the one where Southern California's streets are chock full of really sick people who need a hospital. Regardless, they've all been shuttered for years here in California. Socially, the country was torn over the war in Vietnam After nearly ten years of demanding an end to it. Sick of seeing their friends come home with fewer limbs than they left with, or worse, in coffins draped under red, white and blue doilies, americans had to watch the last of their countrymen being picked up from Saigon rooftops and helicoptered to safety.

Speaker 4: 4:21

Tuesday, april 29th. The streets of Saigon, usually jammed with traffic at the morning rush hour, are quiet. The attack by communist aircraft at Saigon's Tansunut Airport the day before has prompted a 24-hour curfew and the only people on the streets are ambulance drivers and policemen. On the streets are ambulance drivers and policemen With communist forces. Only a few miles from the center of Saigon, the order to evacuate American nationals is given. Americans and citizens of third countries who have been guaranteed space on the airlift gather at assembly points for the bus ride to Tan Son Nhat airport, but the buses have to be abandoned when helicopters at Tan Son Nhat come under fire from both communist and South Vietnamese troops.

Speaker 2: 5:30

Thank you.

Speaker 1: 6:03

The resurgence of the far right could be heard in the flood of media who rose to support those views. On PBS, william F Buckley Jr's show Firing Line provided a platform for conservative intellectual arguments and debates, challenging the comment that liberal voices dominated mainstream media and the nation's Bible thumpers were represented by televangelists like Pat Robertson, whose show continued to grow in popularity during the 1970s. Robertson mixed religious teachings with conservative political commentary to activate a religious army of evangelicals To get the true measure of things. Realize that this segment would likely be referred to as MAGA these days, or, like I like to call them, maggots. Pat's audience was the seed of MAGA. Personally, I think the church should stay literally the hell out of politics. We don't need to turn America into a Christian theocracy. You couldn't tune it out anywhere. Even radio had lost ground to the conservative voice, because this was the era that birthed Rush Limbaugh. I say that even though his show didn't officially start until 1988.

Speaker 1: 7:19

Rush's first success, though, came in the 1970s, and it laid the groundwork for everything that unfortunately came after. American conservatives received a full-on indoctrination in conservative thinking from Rush and his blend of incendiary intolerance and populist appeal Running through everything. There was a feeling that the social changes that the 60s had promised were as far away as ever. There was a feeling that the social changes that the 60s had promised were as far away as ever. It wasn't long after TV cameras beamed those images from Saigon rooftops until Nixon's presidency came crashing down with the shameful Watergate scandal, and Mr I am not a crook was proven to be exactly what he said. He wasn't. President Ford only added to the country's misery when he pardoned Nixon.

Speaker 5: 8:10

My fellow Americans our long national nightmare is over.

Speaker 1: 8:19

Showing the country that there were actually two different sets of laws in place, one for them and one for the rest of us, and it seems we're re-listening to that dialogue. Today we might be getting a second look at it, as Mr 91 Indictments and Counting waits for his day in court, something that's coming later this month. For Christmas, I'd like someone to give him a brand new orange wardrobe and a room with a view of a prison yard. Economically speaking, record inflation and unemployment, especially in the working class, widened the gap between the haves and the have-nots. The energy crisis stranded Americans in long gas lines, paying un unheard of prices for gas.

Speaker 1: 9:05

Thorny civil rights issues were still forcing us to grapple over diversity. Issues like school desegregation, affirmative action and voting rights, Toxic waste in New Jersey's Love Canal, oil spills in Santa Barbara, the highly publicized burning of Ohio's Cuyahoga River and other events all raised public alarm. Closer to home, the divorce rate was skyrocketing. During the 70s, American couples split up at more than twice the rate that they had in the 60s. Even in families where mom and dad stayed together, the personal needs of each parent became more important, with parents spending more time to claim more of what they individually thought was important. In the meantime, family harmony took it in the shorts. America's kids were caught in the crosshairs. America was experiencing an epidemic of frustration, anxiety and anger. I think this classic clip from the movie Network, performed by the late actor Peter Finch, perfectly captured the spirit of the age.

Speaker 6: 10:14

I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's worth, Banks are going bust, Shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter, Punks are running wild in the street and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do. And there's no end to it. We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat. We sit watching our TVs while some local newscaster tells us that today we had 15 homicides and 63 violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be. We know things are bad. Worse than bad, they're crazy. It's like everything everywhere is going crazy.

Speaker 6: 10:54

So we don't go out anymore. We sit in the house and slowly the world we're living in is getting smaller and all we say is please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radios, and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone. Well, I'm not going to leave you alone.

Speaker 6: 11:11

I want you to get mad. I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot. I don't want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first you've got to get mad. You've got to say I'm a human being, goddammit, my life has value. So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window, open it and stick your head out and yell I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore.

Speaker 1: 11:54

If things behind the front doors of American homes were not real pretty, they sure didn't look any better once you stepped off the front porch either. Thinking about this, it can't be a surprise that punk rose out of big cities where bad times followed White flight after the folks that could afford it ran like hell to the suburbs. After that, the only thing left behind in the cities was crime and desperation. Some of the biggest movies of the 70s were studies of urban decay in a growing sense that America's kinder, more innocent days were lost forever. A nasty, gritty world was played out on the big screen in period films like Taxi Driver with Robert De Niro, where violence captured the alienation and anger of 1970s city life, and the Godfather. It reflected the changing moral landscape of America in the 20th century.

Speaker 7: 13:05

Don Pazzini I want to thank you for helping me organize this meeting here today and also the other heads of the five families in New York and New Jersey Carmine Cuneo from the Bronx and Brooklyn, philip Tattaglia from Staten Island. We have with us Victor Stryke and all the other associates that came as far as from California, kansas City and all the other territories of the country.

Speaker 8: 13:48

Thank you. How did things ever get so far? I don't know. It was so unfortunate, so unnecessary. Natalia lost her son and I lost her son. We're quits.

Speaker 9: 14:15

And if Natalia agrees, then I'm willing to let things go on the way they were before. We are all grateful to Don Corleone for calling this meeting. We all know him as a man of his word, a modest man. He'll always listen to reason. Yes, don.

Speaker 10: 14:26

Barzini, he's too modest. He had all the judges and politicians in his pocket.

Speaker 8: 14:34

He refused to share them when, when did I ever refuse an accommodation? All of you know me here. When did I ever refuse, except one time? Why? Because I believe this drug business is going to destroy us in the years to come. I mean, it's not like gambling or liquor, even women, which is something that most people want nowadays, and it's forbidden to them by the Pets and Avanti of the church. Even the police departments that have helped us in the past with gambling and other things are going to refuse to help us when it comes to narcotics. And I believed that then and I believe that now.

Speaker 9: 15:22

Times have changed. It's not like the old days where we can do anything we want. A refusal is not the act of a friend. If Don Corleone had all the judges and the politicians in New York, then he must share them. All he loved was you, sir. He share them. All he loves is using them. He must let us draw the water from the well. Certainly he can present a bill for such services. After all, we are not communists.

Speaker 5: 15:53

I also don't believe in drugs. For years I paid my people extra so they wouldn't do that kind of business. Somebody comes to them and says I have powders. If you put up three, four thousand dollar investment we can make fifty thousand distributing. So they can't resist. I want to control it as a business To keep it respectable. I don't want it near schools. I don't want it sold to children. That's an infirmia in my city. We would keep the traffic in the dark people to call it. They're animals anyway, so let them lose their souls.

Speaker 8: 16:44

I hope that we could come here and reason together and as a reasonable man, I'm willing to do whatever is necessary to find a peaceful solution to this problem.

Speaker 9: 16:51

Then we are agreed, the traffic and drugs will be permitted, but controlled, and Don Corleone will give her protection in the east and there will be the peace.

Speaker 10: 17:01

But I must have strict assurance from Corleone as time goes by and his position becomes stronger, will he attempt any individual vendetta?

Speaker 9: 17:10

Look, we are all reasonable men here we don't have to give assurances as if we were lawyers.

Speaker 8: 17:16

You talk about vengeance. Is vengeance going to bring your son back to you or my boy to me? I forgot the vengeance of my son, but I have selfish reasons. My younger son is supposed to leave this country because of this Salazzo business. All right, I have to make arrangements to bring him back here safely, clear of all these false charges. But I'm a superstitious man and if some unlucky accident should befall him, if he should get shot in the head by a police officer, or if he should hang himself in his jail cell, or if he should get shot in the head by a police officer, or if he should hang himself in his jail cell, or if he's struck by a bolt of lightning and I'm going to blame some of the people in this room and that I do not forgive. But that aside, let me say that I swear on the soul of my grandchildren that I will not be the one to break the peace we've made here today.

Speaker 1: 19:03

So, as much as punk reflected a new reality in the nation, musically it continued America's musical evolution. And another unpredictable fork in the road there was a clear line of descent. You can hear a connection between punk's insistent vocals and the strength of Bessie Smith was a clear line of dissent. You can hear a connection between punk's insistent vocals and the strength of Bessie Smith. Or the blitzkrieg guitar thrash of Billy Zoom or Steve Jones and blues great Howlin' Wolf, with nothing to do and a sense that the walls were closing in, teens living in places like New York, detroit and Los Angeles swam in a notion of boredom and alienation that needed venting. Punk's rawness and DIY attitude made it easy for anyone who had the need to hit back or at least spit into the audience to become an anti-hero. Punk's rebelliousness had a common spirit with early rock and roll and artists like Chuck Berry and Elvis Presley. You can see it splayed out right in the open if you compare the album covers from the Clash's album London Calling and Elvis Presley's first record. And while Elvis remained a country boy at heart, punk's dedication to defying social norms to be your authentic self had early role models like Little Richard.

Speaker 1: 20:21

Punk rock intentionally took a sharp right turn off the trend line. Music had been steadily moving in since at least the late 1940s, and thank God too, because rock had lost its urgency and rebellion that had inspired the 60s to be what they had been. Without that inspiration, there never would have been a Bob Dylan or a Mick Jagger, nor a James Brown or a Pete Townsend. Neither would you have had Janis Joplin, tina Turner or Grace Slick, for that matter. But by the 70s, the electricity that had supercharged the 60s had dissipated. Instead, teens were served up, the likes of the Osmonds and the Captain Antonio. Even in its crunchier moments, 70s rock acquired the term corporate rock, thank you. Bands like Journey and Foreigner and Boston were more like money-making brands or even record label ATM machines playing music with the musically challenged.

Speaker 1: 22:24

Instead of offering the latest generation of record buyers the authentically passionate real deal that guys like Dylan or the Beatles had once given them, for every authentic rocker like Springsteen, there was a poser like Barry Manilow we used to call him barely man enough or Dan Fogelmer, which is fine if you're drooling into the sink in the dentist's chair, but lousy if you need something that matches the messed up way you're feeling inside. And even the more provocative music from the likes of Kiss or Alice Cooper was literally just play acting. Likes of Kiss or Alice Cooper was literally just play acting. But to be honest, for those who had been paying any attention, the seeds of the cynicism and frustration that was in full bloom when punk finally exploded were already in their germ states in the 60s. For instance, I'm thinking about the Beatles' wide album and Lennon's song Happiness is a Warren Gun. And although the Beatles could never have been a punk band, other late 60s and early 70s bands did at least point in punk's direction.

Speaker 1: 23:28

A couple examples will help here. Before punk came proto-punk. Of course, as Chrissy Hine puts it, these things never develop that way. First up, the Sonics. They were a band from Tacoma, washington, and were one of the pioneers of garage rock. So this is their song the Witch. It's a true garage rock classic.

Speaker 2: 24:10

Oh, she'll put you down Cause she's an evil chick. Say she's the witch. She got a long black hair and a big black car. I know what you're thinking, but you won't get far. She's gonna make you laugh Cause she's the witch. Right now, right now, right now, it's time to Take out the jams. Motherfucker, jams, jams, I'm gonna, I'm gonna kick your ass. Yeah, well, I feel pretty good and I guess that I'm good, good, crazy. Now, baby, cause we all got it tuned and when the dust and roof got hazy, now, baby, and then there was the MC5, mc for Motor City.

Speaker 1: 25:19

They were a band from obviously Detroit. They came literally kicking and screaming from Detroit's proto-pixels. They added political activism to the Sonics Garage band Fury. Let's check out their song Kick Out the Jams, but baby you can't do it without.

Speaker 2: 25:39

When you get the feeling you've got, it's like I'm on with that mic in my hand and let me kick out the jam. Yeah, kick out the jam.

Speaker 1: 26:08

Let's kick it out. It's a powerful manifesto for social change. Like the punks that followed, mc5 used raw language and imagery to make their points Sonically. Their aggressive, unrefined sound also made a statement. They were intentionally loud, rough and angsty.

Speaker 2: 26:55

Thank you, so messed up. I want you here In my room.

Speaker 1: 27:14

I want you here. The Stooges, the band's frontman, iggy Pop, might be the original punker, and his band, the Stooges, paved the way for punk rock with their aggressive sound and confrontational stage presence. I mean in their time, the late 1960s and early early 70s, people were not quite ready for what the stooges regularly served up diving into the audience, inciting mosh pits, slashing himself with broken glass, you could say. Iggy was able to hold an audience's attention pretty well and then combine the visual with songs like this one, I Wanna Be your Dog, which is about rebellion, sex and frustration. The Stooges made a lot of people squirm, which was exactly the thing that they were going for. So here's Iggy from an interview.

Speaker 13: 28:13

Thank you very much for being here.

Speaker 1: 28:14

Thank you.

Speaker 13: 28:15

I was reading your book last night and it a very interesting uh piece of work you put together. You were ray, born and reared and uh um but and you lived in a lived in a trailer, right yeah, yeah and I haven't grown up in a trailer. Does it have any thoughts that that affects a person one way or the other, as opposed to living in a stationary house?

Speaker 14: 28:32

yeah, absolutely, because you know, because everybody. Well, first of all, like you know, there's like trash. You ever heard the trailer? No, no, well, it's a kind of a fly-by-night connotation, and plus things like if your dad walks in the front door right and he closes the door, the house shakes a little bit, so it's kind of like God is home. No, I didn't Did they ever. No, it's I don't know. I'm glad I did, you know, at least it made me different.

Speaker 13: 29:12

But at the time, was it affecting you adversely with your peers or it was no big deal?

Speaker 14: 29:16

Well, not with my peers, just with the PRI, et cetera that I went to school with, you know. Now tell me about also I kind of liked it because it was like ahead of its time. You know, yeah, my father's a visionary.

Speaker 13: 29:34

Do they still live in a house fairly?

Speaker 14: 29:36

No, they just sold it just a few months ago and they've moved down to somewhere in the Carolinas.

Speaker 13: 29:45

Tell me about hurting yourself on stage and cutting yourself and then tossing yourself into the audience. Is that still Well, okay?

Speaker 14: 29:54

first, yeah, tom Snyder asked me about that. No, it never did hurt. You know, it's a funny thing about the. It's a funny thing about, like, you know, you get a good band, you know, and you get them cooking and if the beat's right and it's a good riff, like nothing hurts.

Speaker 14: 30:12

So you know, it's sort of a you're getting a bit of a state you know, I suppose it has to do with your adrenaline, but a bit of a a state, you know, I suppose it has to do with the adrenaline, but uh, but afterwards, sometimes, sometimes, sometimes you know it would, it would be just just the sort of thing like I had to get a new tooth for your show this morning. It was a real pain, you know, because because otherwise I wouldn't be able to, but but that was just a sheer accident. Where I was, I was getting so into it that I just smushed the mic in my in my tooth by mistake. But then other times, you know, I'd, I'd sort of uh, just fling myself at the audience because, uh, because, of their indifference.

Speaker 13: 30:51

tell me, oh, okay, now, now, uh, in the book you described the first time you really started to to yourself with drumsticks. You were drumming then, right, yeah, and you were kind of no.

Speaker 14: 31:00

no, that was no. I was singing by that time.

Speaker 13: 31:02

Okay, now tell me about the time that you, the first decision, the first time you made the decision to jump into the audience.

Speaker 14: 31:09

To cross the proscenium, as it were. Yes, okay, there were three stages to that. The Okay, there were three stages to that. The very first time I did it. It was the second gig I'd ever played in my life and I opened up for Frank Zappa in the Mother's Invention and I knew he was going to be interesting. And it was about 15 minutes into my set and it was going nowhere and so I thought what am I going to do? Listen, you know, there's like, uh, there's like 15 000 bands here in the detroit area, just one place to play. You know, uh, I gotta stand out right. So, uh, like, uh, just like a little kid, like you know it's a bit hebephrenic. I mean, like, uh, I just sort of went like have you ever seen when little kids don't get attention and they just go like yeah, like that, and pretend they're gonna fall on the floor? Well, I really did, yeah, you know, and that that's that created a stir now, what did you land on?

Speaker 13: 32:06

did you just go right on?

Speaker 14: 32:07

over. Well, it was funny, I what I planned, I'd planned to land on I I sort of spotted a pair of very plump boys young ladies it and it was my intention that they would be best suited to cushion the fall. But I didn't, you know, I didn't reckon. I figured they'd be lucky. You know They'd be lucky. I was like you know Part of the show sure? Well, you know too. I mean, they weren't like you know, they weren't ravingly attractive or anything. So I figured, you know, maybe they'd like some company.

Speaker 1: 32:42

But instead they just Probably one of the earliest recognizable punk influences was Lou Reed and his band, the Velvet Underground.

Speaker 12: 32:57

shiny shiny, shiny boots of leather with flash girl child in the dark comes and bells your servant, don't forsake him. Strive dear mistress and cure his heart.

Speaker 1: 33:38

Founded by Reed, who was vocals, guitar and keyboards, and John Cale on bass, keyboards and viola of all things in New York City in 1965. By the end of the year they added Sterling Morrison on guitar and Maureen Tucker on drums. Their song Heroin, was written from the point of view of an addict. We're listening to Venus and Furs, a song about sadomasochism. Everything about this band was intended to provoke a response. As well as being forerunners of punk, the Velvet Underground also pioneered a path into the avant-garde that later punks followed. It obviously opened doors for their collaboration with Andy Warhol, and each of the four had their own place in New York's arts scene.

Speaker 1: 34:27

Reed, the band's poet, had studied literature at Syracuse and had been influenced by poet Delmore Schwartz. You can see that influence in Lou's fascination with urban alienation and existentialism. John Cale had trained as a classic musician but was also immersed in the minimalist and avant-garde music scene. Kale also played in Lamont Young's Theater of Eternal Music, known for its pioneering drone and extended duration compositions, and then guitarist and sometimes bass player whenever Kale was on viola. Sterling Morrison was into the visual arts, especially experimental film. He had also gone to Syracuse with Lou Mo Tucker. The VU's drummer also had a classical music background like Hale. His avant-garde approach to percussion showed the strong influence of John Cage and other minimalist composers. By the way, if you're interested in learning more about minimalism, check out my episode 15 from season one, the Celestial Pulse of Minimalism. There's a link in today's show notes for that.

Speaker 7: 35:48

Severin, Severin, it's no when I'm gone.

Speaker 12: 35:54

It's all my fault. Oh, why did I just fall? I'd be the same.

Speaker 1: 36:17

Oh, I needed to be the same. The famous pop artist Andy Warhol you've probably seen his paintings Campbell's Soup, cans or Maryland Diptych was the Underground's major patron and he probably had the greatest influence on their development. The VU did a number of mixed media shows called the Exploding Plastic Inevitable that combined the band, a pseudo-singer, german fashion model named Miko, some of Andy's films dancing, an elaborate light show and even the audience themselves via live interviewing during their performances. Everything about the shows was intended to shock audiences Bizarre lighting, jarring music, blatantly sexual questions asked of the audience while their reactions were taped, entirely disarming. At first, these things became expected elements of future punk rock concerts.

Speaker 12: 37:14

Oh, she's really doing her thing. Watch that speed break. Watch that speed break. It's gonna go and make it every week. Oh, it's gonna go, everybody's gonna go kill them all.

Speaker 2: 38:30

It's gonna, it's gonna, everybody's gonna. It comes here, it comes. Everybody. Get up, don't make me run, do it. ©. Bf-watch TV 2021. Guitar solo.

Speaker 1: 39:12

And yet another proto-punk band from the early 70s. The New York Dolls were another New York band, although their influence never went much beyond Manhattan at the time. Today, fans look back and they appreciate how the Dolls helped pave the way for music. Their music was a blend of both the trends in boy-girl-themed pop music and pessimistic social commentary. This is their song from 73 called Jet Boy, blending glam and proto-punk. Jet Boy is about adolescent rebellion and sexual awakening. It's a song that pushes boundaries with its suggestive lyrics and energetic rock sound Known for manic screaming another trend that punk followed. They also got a lot of attention for the clothes they wore. The mildest way that you can describe it is androgynous. The band was managed by Malcolm McLaren, who, of course, managed the Sex Pistols. It was McLaren that pushed the dolls even further to the fringes, like the concert that they performed with communist-themed clothes and props.

Speaker 1: 40:19

The great rock and roll photographer Bob Gruen, famous for his photos of legends like John Iñigo, the Rolling Stones, zeppelin, david Bowie, tina Turner, blondie, the Ramones, patti Smith, the Sex Pistols, kiss and loads more, explained why the New York Dolls never became a bigger band. He said If you wanted to work in the music business, you didn't go around admitting that you saw the New York Dolls. That was like admitting that you had friends who were homosexual. It was not popular in the mainstream. Uh judgmental, are we? Nothing quite like a New York Dolls show had ever been attempted before.

Speaker 1: 41:03

In Rome the band members broke new ground in sexual ambiguity. The guys wore dresses, high heels, fishnet stockings, ripped jeans, leather jackets and outlandish makeup. They pushed boundaries and attracted attention with their visual presentation. But it wasn't just about fashion. They also carved out their own niche and stage presence too. Their lead singer, david Johansson, frequently climbed up into the stage lights or threw himself into the crowd. The band did dance moves, dramatic gestures and loads of audience interaction. Moving beyond simple entertainment, the Dolls' live shows challenged societal norms about masculinity, sexuality and performance. They injected raw energy and theatricality into the rock and roll scene. In many ways the New York Dolls gave birth to glamour. Bowie was a regular at those early Dolls shows in the city between 71 and 73, where he buried himself in their raw energy and theatricality. He called the Dolls one of the greatest rock and roll bands in the world and said they were quote an inspiration. You can hear that influence in his music when you listen back to Ziggy Stardust or Aladdin Sane, I said hey, man you know my school is insane.

Speaker 2: 42:53

I said, hey, man, well, my work's on the train. I said, hey, man, well, she's a total man. Now she's searching out a space adventure Adventure. I don't need a lonely man to shake everybody's head. I'm talking something to the city. I don't need a lonely man to shake everybody's head. I'm talking something to the man. I'm a million-dollar man. I'm a million-dollar man. I'm a million-dollar man.

Speaker 1: 43:16

I'm a million-dollar man Albums that coincided with the Doll's Peak. This was also the period when Bowie turned away from his early folk-inspired music towards a heavier sound with Axeman Mick Bronson on lead. Like on this song, Sub Suburban City, from the rise and fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars. In his Ziggy character, Bowie created a rock star from Mars, sent as a messianic messenger to Earth, who carried a message of hope and salvation to a dying planet. Unfortunately, this anti-hero took a tragic turn and succumbed to fame and self-destruction.

Speaker 11: 43:57

I wanted to write theatrical things. Actually, strangely enough well, maybe it's not so strange when you look at it in context but when I was around 17, 18, what I wanted to do more than anything else was write something for Broadway. I wanted to write a musical. I had no idea of how you did it or how musicals were constructed, but the idea of writing something that was rock-based for Broadway really intriguing. I thought that would be a wonderful thing to do and I saw myself as somebody who would kind of end up writing musicals in a way, probably rock musicals of some nature. But it never actually became that. So they were. In a way.

Speaker 11: 44:37

Those ideas were kind of quashed a little bit when I realised what a huge and vicious thing that was to take on, because you have to write dialogue and all that and I really didn't know how to approach that. So I took a far simpler course and kind of abbreviated the idea of musical into just a concept piece for an album and created the characters to go with the different albums. And in the process of doing that I found that I was actually playing around with the music that I was writing more and more. So it really was character driven. That actually started to interfere with the music in a good way, and my interest eventually became just the music itself.

Speaker 9: 45:15

So it's almost like I left a lot of the theatrical ambitions behind when I really got involvedgy Stardust is a classic illustration, so how much of Davy Jones? Was he Ziggy?

Speaker 11: 46:02

Stardust. I like Ziggy personally, Ziggy Stardust. In fact that was going to be my next project was Ziggy Stardust.

Speaker 11: 46:10

I don't think there was very much at all. I mean, I honestly I was just trying to create an idea of how to expand rock and expand the horizons of it, and I took as the alien form for Ziggy as he was supposed to be an alien of some kind, I based him very much on the Japanese concept. At that particular time, in the early 70s, we knew so little about japan, and japan really hadn't exploited itself and brought its stuff over to the west, you know. So it still seemed like an alien society, but it was a human alien society. So the big you could make a human connection to um japan, far, far more than you could say to mars, which would be, you know, just beyond um so how easy was it to leave the character behind?

Speaker 11: 46:57

you killed him off so emphatically yeah, I didn't have a problem with it. I really didn't, because I really wanted to move on. In 73 we'd uh, you know, incredible, the whole thing lasted only for 18 months. In all that, I mean, it's just incredible. We did one year's worth of tours. We never even played europe. We played england and the states I should have killed my manager. We never played europe, never played australia, and it was over. It was just over. I decided that's enough, I don't want to get, you know, imprisoned by all this, and I mean I because I really wanted to. Towards the last two or three months of the whole Ziggy tour, I'd already kind of decided what I wanted to do and what I wanted to write. So for me it was just absolutely necessary to move on.

Speaker 11: 47:41

And what was behind the androgynous images of the 70s? It just seemed so perfect within the time that that really represented what the 70s was all about. There was such a feeling coming out of the 50s and into the 60s. There was a real opening up of uh attitudes. In the 60s and then the 70s, everything became. It was the pluralistic 70s. You know, there were so many sides to a story in the 70s before. In the 50s it was just black and white. It was one story yes and one story no. But in the 50s it was just black and white. It was one story yes and one story no. But in the 70s you could look at things in so many different ways. Nothing was right. The idea of absolutes was kind of starting to disappear. It wasn't a this is the right way. This is the wrong way, and I just felt that it really summed up the whole of what the 70s were going to be about. It was a guess and it was a good one.

Speaker 1: 48:44

Drawing from his New York Dolls experiences, bowie injected Ziggy with the doll's androgyny. Ziggy's look challenged gender norms with makeup, flamboyant costumes and ambiguous sexuality. Ziggy wore his hair in a dramatic, bright red mullet with long flowing strands and spikes. To give Ziggy his otherworldly persona, bowie applied heavy white foundation, bright eyeshadow, dramatic eyeliner and painted lightning bolts down his cheeks. And an alien rocker is going to have clothes to die for, isn't he? So Ziggy's clothes were a kaleidoscope of color and extravagance. He wore bold jumpsuits, glittering bodysuits, dramatic capes, flamboyant jackets, just about everything from satin and velvet and studded with sequins and geometric patterns and futuristic designs. And Ziggy accessorized Knee-high boots, platform shoes, mismatched socks.

Speaker 10: 49:48

All of that added to his unique style. Oh no, no, no, you're a rock and roll suicide.

Speaker 1: 49:54

Ending the Ziggy story with a suicide, bowie made it a commentary on rock and roll, alienation, fame and the dangers of excess. Ziggy the alien who fell to Earth became a tragic anti-hero who, despite his flaws and eventual downfall, remained a sympathetic figure who struggled with identity and his own mortality. And because he did that, ziggy ultimately stood for the rock stars themselves. So all these bands that we've been talking about here paved the way for punk, and by 74 or 75, new York City's punk rock scene was on the rise. Bands like the Ramones New York City's punk rock scene was on the rise. Bands like the Ramones, the Talking Heads, blondie and other groups that would become pillars in the scene all played regular sets in clubs around town. As these musicians and the lifestyle rose up, it shook the foundations of the music industry. Suddenly, bands like yes and Pink Floyd, who had been at the top of the industry, were now, all of a sudden, yesterday's news.

Speaker 1: 50:55

Punk also left an indelible mark on culture and society. The immediate impact was most of the adult world was in disgust. Parents were slack-jawed and gobsmacked. Yes, indeed, in a totally unexpected way, rock and roll was boomerang, right back to its primitive Stone Age days. Again. The longer-term impact and we'll see this in later episodes was that punk was like a forest fire After it had burned everything in its path, a bunch of new bands and new forms sprang out of the forest clay. But, like I said, more on that in future episodes hey ho, let's go.

Speaker 2: 52:09

Hey ho, let's go. Hey ho, let's go. Hey ho, let's go. Hey ho, let's go. Hey ho, let's go. Hey ho, let's go. Oh, it is a night. You're going through the time Watch. You get to lose a memory.

Speaker 1: 52:25

You are, of course, listening to the Ramones, and this is their song let's Greet Buck. Listening to the Ramones, and this is their song Blitzkrieg Bop. Hailing from Queens, new York, the Ramones were pioneers of punk. With this simple rallying cry, the Ramones ushered in their first album and subsequently revolutionized American rock and roll. In the space of just 14 sharp tracks, for a growing crowd of disaffected teens, rock had turned into a musical desert filled with dust, disco and an occasional desert tortoise. And then suddenly it's hey ho, let's go, and the Ramones were on their way to becoming one of the most influential bands ever.

Speaker 1: 53:09

Recorded on a shoestring, probably a Doc Martens budget of just over six grand is that punk rock or what? And released on April 23rd 76, the Ramones packed 14 rockers into two sides of vinyl, most of them under two minutes each. The longest tune, the psychological creep fest of I don't want to go down to the basement, clocks in at 2 minutes and 39 seconds. The shortest, judy is a Punk. An ode to young offenders blasts forth for a mere minute and 32 seconds the self-explanatory. Now I want to sniff some glue. All 1 minute and 35 seconds of it is atypical in that it contains a rare guitar solo.

Speaker 1: 53:59

This is ultra lean, no fat on the bone, rock and roll. Here's the Ramones in an interview from the Tomorrow Show.

Speaker 15: 54:11

I'm talking to the Ramones right now Joey, johnny, stevie and Marky. You have your people here with you. You got the best names in the world, you know? Yeah, I guess. So they love you and, by the way, your names aren't really Ramone, you just didn't know. It's a coincidence. It's a coincidence, it just all happened.

Speaker 12: 54:27

When we met in the elevator, we all had the same last name.

Speaker 15: 54:30

You never give your real names, but you don't want your mothers to be subjected to that Disgrace. Right, right my mother just left the country.

Speaker 5: 54:42

you know how did you get together? We started like summer of 1974, and we grew up together, lived in the same block. We were friends, something I always wanted to do.

Speaker 9: 54:54

It's an unnatural phenomenon Can you see, yes, don't do it there, it's not the right spot you know, all right and, by the way you know, I was meaning to get out of

Speaker 12: 55:02

here I kind of did.

Speaker 15: 55:04

You didn't have time.

Speaker 12: 55:05

No, it's too many things to do, you know.

Speaker 15: 55:08

You started back in the mid-70s. I want to know.

Speaker 13: 55:11

I was going to type out a lyric sheet for you tonight. I haven't we want the airways.

Speaker 15: 55:15

This business is killing me.

Speaker 1: 55:20

The Ku.

Speaker 15: 55:20

Klux Klan is stealing my baby away.

Speaker 1: 55:23

Teenage lobotomy.

Speaker 15: 55:24

You got it all. I got it, I got it and you're doing really well with it.

Speaker 5: 55:27

But you started punk kind of Well, well, well, we consider it, consider it a genuine rock and roll. Rock and roll was meant for punks and, uh, that's what started I guess, yeah, but punk is an answer to all the glitter and the stuff that cuts a lot of punk is just a rebellious rock for all kids uh, all of them. Real rock and roll is punk, not a bunch of old men playing music for your mothers and fathers. That's what you have now, what they call rock.

Speaker 5: 55:57

For instance yeah, styx Kansas Farn stuff like that.

Speaker 6: 56:04

Your parents should listen to this.

Speaker 15: 56:05

Is it mellowing out my mom?

Speaker 6: 56:07

doesn't even listen to that.

Speaker 15: 56:08

She thinks that your mother's more hip than that, yeah, it's just.

Speaker 5: 56:12

They just want to clean up music and just push mediocrity on the public.

Speaker 15: 56:18

So you're back to your tattered jeans and your sneakers and your leather jackets and nothing fancy.

Speaker 5: 56:25

Well, we just wanted to be real. We wanted to be ourselves and not put on a bunch of phony clothes.

Speaker 15: 56:30

Yeah, but wait a minute now. Is this real? Yes, yes, yes, yes, ourselves and not, uh, put on a bunch of phony clothes, yeah, but wait a minute now.

Speaker 5: 56:35

Is this real well? We wore.

Speaker 15: 56:36

We wore what we always wore yeah no, but isn't this a uniform too?

Speaker 14: 56:39

I mean, we went over it when we started the group, we were talking about what we were going to wear. Uh-huh you know, when we started thinking about it and we just decided to wear what we had. This is what we were wearing before we were in the band. We were thinking of getting dressed up and all that too, you know, and then we decided not to All the big rock stars are wearing what we're wearing now like Billy Joel, the one with the love of jazz.