307 - Coaching Ideas to Assist in Classroom Management

One of the biggest struggles for teachers can be classroom management. What happens when the lesson is ready to go, the teacher is excited to teach the content, but the students are not engaged and struggle to focus? This episode will tackle ideas for coaches who look to work with teachers to assist with classroom management.

Maggie Harris

Podcast Team
Hosts- Katie  Ritter & Justin Thomas
Editing Team- Michael Roush, Justin Thomas 
Social Media/ Promo Team- Annamarie Rinehart, Lisa Kuhn, Maggie Harris
Creative/Content Team- Justin Thomas
Producers- Justin Thomas

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Transcript

Brooke Conklin: 0:00

Calling all instructional coaches join Forward Edge coaches camp in summer 2023. Coaches camp is packed with high quality professional development exclusively for you. Attendees will work with like minded coaches on creating strategies for building teacher relationships, executing coaching cycles and building a culture of coaching and tech integration within their district. There are two opportunities to attend coaches camp in the summer of 2023. You can join us virtually June 12 through 14th or come visit us in Cincinnati on July 27, and 28th please visit forward hyphen edge dotnet slash coach camp to reserve your spot today.

Katie Ritter: 0:43

Aloha, I'm Katie Ritter.

Justin Thomas: 0:44

And I'm Justin Thomas. And this is the restart recharge podcast, a podcast by coaches for coaches. We bring the tips and tricks to help you in your everyday work as an instructional coach or whatever they call you in your school district.

Katie Ritter: 0:55

So hopefully you're gonna leave this episode with us today feeling just a little bit less on your own coaching Island.

Justin Thomas: 1:01

Yeah, and one of the biggest struggles for teachers can be classroom management. What happens when the lesson is ready to go and the teacher is excited for teaching the content but then the students are just not that engaged in the struggle to focus. This episode is actually going to tackle some ideas for coaches who are looking to help teachers and assist with classroom management in their lessons.

Katie Ritter: 1:20

Talk about a timely episode, Justin, I feel like every teacher everywhere is struggling with some crazy kiddos these days. And now we're into the springtime. Yes.

Justin Thomas: 1:30

And that you know, as soon as the weather starts to warm up, they just don't want to be there anymore. I

Katie Ritter: 1:34

think it was a full moon at the time. We're recording this lesson. All the elements of your classroom Manager Yeah,

Justin Thomas: 1:40

that's exactly true. A full moon. That means it's all going downhill. So hopefully, you'll have some some insight here for us when this comes out on the next full moon cycle. But we are joined today by Maggie Harris Maggie is an instructional design coach here at Forward Edge. Prior to her role, Maggie taught middle school English Language Arts at an urban charter school in Columbus, Ohio, where she resides still today. Now she works as a coach and a pre K through 12 districts serving over 3000 students. She is passionate about helping teachers create engaging and equitable lessons that leverage technology she has presented at both obtc and ISTE. Outside of work, Maggie plays sand volleyball and soccer and also enjoys baking. So welcome in Maggie.

Katie Ritter: 2:23

Welcome, Maggie.

Maggie Harris: 2:25

Thank you guys. I'm excited to be here.

Katie Ritter: 2:28

Yeah, we are glad to have you on first time on the pod.

Justin Thomas: 2:31

First time on the pod. Yeah. exciting to have you on here with us today, Maggie. So obviously this is a tough topic, right classroom management? How can the coach assist teachers with classroom management ideas? So we'll just get right to here. Can you explain the importance of finding strategies to assist teachers with classroom management as a coach? Like why should the coach get involved to try and help the teacher out here?

Maggie Harris: 2:54

Yeah, absolutely. You know, this topic has been top of mind for me throughout the year, I've constantly heard from teachers, about their struggles with their students, especially kind of moving away from COVID. It's just been a very complicated problem for teachers to deal with. And so as a coach, you know, I, as a tech coach, I can help my teachers create an awesome engaging lesson. But it can also flop if the structures aren't in place for in the classroom for students to be successful. And having that classroom management piece is so essential to the success of a lesson. And as a coach, it's also my role to just support teachers, and help them grow professionally and ultimately help retain teachers and classroom management is so often what pushes teachers to leave the classroom. And so, my role comes in to help teachers, you help them create these lessons that also have those structures in place. And sometimes, you know, they might come to me just wanting someone to help them. You know, in one of my buildings, you know, I'm the only coach I am the only person that they really have to go to when they're having an issue outside of administrators or other teachers. And so of course, I'm going to do whatever you know I can do to help them feel successful in the classroom and leave the day not feeling so drained, which, you know, when you're dealing with student behaviors over and over again, it can just weigh on you and be the only thing that you remember from the day and eventually that's going to, you know, make you possibly consider, you know what you could do outside the classroom. Yeah,

Katie Ritter: 4:48

I think that's a great point. Maggie. Just really quick before I ask you. My, I guess follow up question. This is a follow up question. But um, what are the challenges that you You have mainly been seeing this year with some of your teachers, I'm sure it will resonate across with our listeners, but just kind of if you could just kind of pinpoint some of maybe like, the main like two to three challenges that you've really been kind of seeing across the board from your perspective.

Maggie Harris: 5:14

Um, I would say one really big problem is just keeping students engaged, especially with, you know, at the high school level, I see a lot of issues with like, students have their cell phones, and they have their air pods, and they're constantly, you know, not talking to the, they're not listening to the teacher, instead, they're doing whatever else on their phones, and which, of course, can lead to issues with behavior. I also see a lot of students dealing with things going on outside of school that they then bring to school, and then teachers are having to kind of figure out, like, how can we help the students get to the place where they're ready to learn as well. And sometimes those behaviors that they're displaying are like refusing to do work, you know, get or giving up really fast and getting really frustrated and showing those frustrations in a manner that's not productive to the classroom. So those are just a few of the themes that I've seen a lot this year. Yeah, that

Katie Ritter: 6:15

Thanks, Jess, and I needed to go I was going back over here, I'm talking. Okay, I think that helps to, like just kind of give a frame of reference for like when you're talking because classroom and manage classroom management encompasses so many things. So I just think it's helpful to kind of have that frame of reference like that you're bringing to mind in some of these discussions like really focusing on, you know, gosh, we've really kind of seen this across the board and heard from coaches all over about the same issues, just getting kids reengaged. And not being focused. We know Sel is huge across schools right now, and just kind of, for lack of a better word that's coming to me, but like, kind of emotional baggage that like, right, we all have that that we bring into certain situations. And these kiddos are dealing with a lot and just kind of making sure the readiness is there. And grit, I kind of heard you know, you didn't say that word specifically. But I kind of heard that in some of the things that you're talking about, like how do we push kids to try through hard things? So okay, so knowing that those are kind of the things that you're seeing, mainly and helping with? How do you go about supporting a teacher who's maybe struggling with a student or group of students, or potentially even whole classes of students who are exhibiting some of those challenging behaviors that you're seeing how how do you support those, those pieces that you just pinpointed? Are problems?

Maggie Harris: 7:40

Um, yes. So I think the first step is always to observe, even if it's an informal coaching cycle, I still, you know, seeing for yourself, I think is extremely important. And so with that being said, before I observe a teacher, you know, I'll ask them, like, how do you want me to be introduced to you want to introduce me? Do you want me to say who I am, and I bring that up, because you want to get an authentic experience in the classroom. And you know, oftentimes, classes know, when they are a challenging class, they know when they're teachers getting frustrated. So if you're just this adult that's walking in, they might assume that you know, you're here to evaluate their teacher or that you're there to, you know, see what they're doing. And so they might then change their behaviors. And of course, that's not what we want to see what we're trying to help a teacher, we want to see what they're dealing with. So we know how to help them. Yeah, that's

Katie Ritter: 8:41

a great point.

Maggie Harris: 8:42

I learned from experience. A teacher and I, we were kinda like vague in my introduction, and they were like, little angels, they did everything they were supposed to do. And then I went back to observe another time. And the student came up to me and was like, Who are you? Oh, and, you know, I help teachers with technology, showed them my badge, believe me. And but then in that class period, once they knew who I was, and they knew I was just there to kind of like, help their teacher use technology. And then I saw their true colors. And I got an idea of like, oh, this is what this you know, teachers is experiencing day in and

Katie Ritter: 9:24

day out. Yeah. Yeah. Like, no wonder she can implement this idea that we talked about. Yeah.

Maggie Harris: 9:29

Yeah. So that's kind of my first step is to observe and I personally like to use a template from the Google for Education certified coaching program. It's called selective scripting. And I like to use that template because it helps me gather objective data just gives me categories so I timestamp and then I record what the teacher says or does and what the students say or do in that moment. I can add some notes or questions. And so I like to use that. And I always share it with the teacher beforehand. So they know what I'm typing on my computer. But another great point. Yeah, so it just helps me. So I'm kind of leaving my biases aside and just focusing on purely what I see and hear. And so in an ideal world, I would observe, have like, an hour, and then meet with the teacher. So I can like digest what I wrote down and saw and think about, like questions and considerations and give the teacher a chance to digest as well. But sometimes that doesn't happen. Sometimes you need immediately after, sometimes you need the next day. But of course, it's helpful to meet pretty soon after the observation, so everything's fresh in their head. And so I always start off with like, something really good that I saw. And make sure to keep things positive, even if it was not so great class, I try to pick out at least one thing, maybe it's just picking up on like the report that like the you know, the students clearly feel really comfortable in the classroom and enjoy being in your room. Otherwise, you know, they wouldn't be, you know, coming in every day. Sometimes he knows this is I'm thinking of like a high school class in particular, and students skip class and like, here, they are coming near a classroom, they want to be here, or sometimes it's just really small, like I saw this student, like they were working really hard on this assignment. And then I asked them how they think it went, what are their thoughts? I'm trying to pick up on like patterns. If this is something that happens all the time, I might be trying to see if like, they're picking up on some of the things that I also picked up on, or if there's not picking up on but I did notice. And during that conversation I really tried to use like, refer to the objective data, like this student interrupted you so many times and give them that number, if possible. And also use like I noticed, and I wonder statements, I find is just like a easier way for me to kind of give some feedback and a more like comfortable setting. I think I learned this from listening to this podcast. So like avoid saying like what I used to teach or what strategy I used to use and try to avoid that. And that was something I did a lot last year. So instead, I've tried to replace that with like, I noticed and I wonder to kind of frame the strategies or ideas that I'm sharing during that discussion.

Katie Ritter: 12:27

Yeah, I'm, I'm curious, since obviously, in the context of like, I don't think all of your observations are, correct me if I'm wrong, but your teachers aren't coming to saying I want to sign up for coaching cycles, or please work with me to help me with classroom management, right? So like you are there as the tech coach, technically no instructional design coach, but you're there to really support like effective instruction, like through use of technology, and you're finding this lens of to even get there, we've got to help with the classroom management. So I'm just curious in your conversations, like how are you guiding the awareness or the focus to even have some conversations that will then lend to some strategies that can then be implemented to focus specifically on the classroom management piece, rather than like, I want to learn XYZ tech tool to implement into this lesson?

Maggie Harris: 13:24

Well, I think it's important to tie it back to instruction. You know, if you are wanting your students to work on a collaborative assignment, and the students are struggling to work together, then it's well I wonder if perhaps you could put like a timer up on the board to see if like, give them like one minute to get with their group. So they're not spending all this time wandering around the room, so that, you know, they can actually work on the project in an effective manner. Um, and then additionally, when it comes to like designing any kind of lesson or project with the teacher, like maybe they reached out to me, and they're like, hey, I want to create this and they have something in mind that they want to do. Or maybe we identify something together, then I think it's also about reminding them of how important it is to have some structure in how you're setting up like collaborative work. That'd be one of the behavior coaches actually need this. told me about this metaphor that he shares with teachers. And he said, you know, if you are driving down a highway, and there's no speed limit at all, you're going to have people who drive 110 miles per hour just because they can. And so the same goes for students. If you don't provide, you know, some structure and guidelines in Olympia. Then you're going to have students that push you and are going to see how far they can push you just like with group work talking to them about how to Like how you want them to work in groups like talking to them about what is it sound like? What is it? What does it look like and including them in that process can then you know, set your classroom up for success for then you know your students to do the assignment in an effective way. And so having those things set up beforehand, I think is a really important part of planning that lesson or project, sometimes it's easy to just assume that all of these things are already in place, but sometimes they're not. And so talking to them, and like, well, we're doing this, to set your students up for success in this project, I think can be a helpful way to kind of frame it.

Katie Ritter: 15:40

Yeah, well, I think it goes back to what you said too, right? Like how important that observation in like a true setting really, is, will really help you as the coach before you come to the table with these ideas and suggestions. And you're like going forward with things not related to classroom management with whatever it is you're coaching on that that really gives you a realistic picture of where you need to start. And I like, how you're giving these really tangible strategies that are just kind of embedded throughout the conversation. And okay, so you want your students working in groups are doing this or doing that, like, here's what we should have in play, and like getting them to talk through what they want that to look like, and then tips on how they can like, make that more efficient or shore up that piece of it. Because I do think when it comes to classroom management, I feel like some people get really touchy about, like, you know, like, you're not going to them being like, well, your classroom management isn't great. So let's look at that piece. Before we talk about using this. Yeah, you know, Tech Talk, right

Justin Thomas: 16:45

last in there.

Katie Ritter: 16:46

Yeah, like, yeah, like, Thank You don't ever come back. Bye, bye. Um, so I just really liked how you're kind of embedding it in a strategy. And you're not really even saying classroom management, it sounds like in anything, you're just thinking of those, like strategies that have been really successful and through your own observation of those students in that setting, like what will work. So I think that's important to note, because I know some of my toughest conversations, when I was still actively coaching, surrounded what really was a classroom management issue. And wasn't necessarily like the lesson or the content, but it was such at the root and I know I always felt a little bit like nervous to broach that conversation. So I think you're doing it in a really good way. That's just kind of embedding it throughout the thought process of the lesson design.

Maggie Harris: 17:36

Yeah, and yes, you do have to tread lightly. Yeah.

Justin Thomas: 17:41

All right. Well, let's go ahead and step aside take a break from our sponsors. And then we'll be right back looking for a program that reaches all teachers and learning new tools to integrate in their lessons and you badges is the answer and using anytime, anywhere badging program that is designed to take bite sized tools for instruction, and teach teachers how to use them as you as received the STC of alignment for Educator Standards. And each patch in our expanding library is aligned to the ISTE standards and the Samer model. Learn more about the program that teachers call addicting and for hyphen edge dotnet backslash and you badges. Calling all Instructional Technology coaches Forward Edge has launched a new hub for coaches to find strategies and resources to use for their coaching. The EDU Coach Network provides a place for instructional coaches to come together for Coach specific professional development, building a community and finding mentorship moving through the school year, the network provides a place to casually seek resources for joining with book clubs, Twitter, chats, webinars and workshops, along with much more, join the EDU Coach Network by going to Ed edu Coach network.com and join the coach community today.

Katie Ritter: 18:48

All right, welcome back to the restart recharge podcast, you have your co host here, Justin Thomas, Katie Ritter, and we are talking with Maggie Harris about how coaches can support classroom management to further allow them to coach and get into the deeper things that we coach on here. So Maggie, now we are going to kind of flip our mindset and knowing that our team here loves a good tech tool that can maybe support the work that we do and make things more efficiently. what are maybe some of view like go to tools that you might integrate into lessons that really are meant to assist with classroom management for teachers.

Maggie Harris: 19:29

Yeah, so one of my favorite tools and it was actually my PD on the potty last month is classroom screen. So basically, it's a digital screen. It's a website you can go to and create a free account. There's different like widgets you can add to your screen that you then display to students. And so some of the ones that I really like they have a sound meter, so it will actually pick up on the volume of the classroom and it will turn red if students aren't good And he's really loud.

Katie Ritter: 20:02

Like, we might need that in the office.

Maggie Harris: 20:09

So I like that one just to give students the opportunity to also, you know, self monitor themselves. And along with that another one that they have are like work symbols. So you can display like a working silently symbol or a working collaboratively symbol to also give students another way of seeing like how they're supposed to be working, because we know students don't always listen spectacularly. So just having another visual in front of them, that shows them you know, how the volume that they should be at and the type of work that they should be engaging in. And then lastly, they also have a poll feature. So students, I've seen this on display in teachers classrooms, where students come in, it's part of their morning routine, and they select from the poll, like whether they're happy, sad, tired, mad, you can customize your options. And so then it creates a pie chart with student responses. So you can't see what the individual students said. But you can gauge how your class as a whole is feeling. And know like, oh, man, we have some like, really increase students in the classroom, like Did something happen, like maybe it's happening right after lunch, and students are doing like a midday check in. And something happened clearly. And it's going to prevent students from learning. And so I really liked that tool. I think it's super easy and quick to implement. And there's some other really great features in it as well.

Katie Ritter: 21:45

Have you Sorry, I'm going to ask you really quickly have it because I know I like I used to recommend that tool for like my elementary teachers. Have you seen it used at like middle in high school, because I think at like face value, it's a very natural fit for elementary it like mimics some of the tools they had on smart boards and different things that they're used to using. But do you see it used at the middle and high school level? Just personally a lot?

Maggie Harris: 22:11

No, that's a really great question. The classroom I was referring to was a fifth grade classroom that I saw students kind of using it as they check in. However, I don't see why it couldn't be used at the secondary level.

Katie Ritter: 22:23

i Yeah, some of those things you just described had me thinking like this would also work for secondary. I know, like my mind wasn't with secondary, and that was sharing it. But some of them, I didn't realize it had some of those things that you just shared, though. Um, so those to me feel like they could be secondary, like self monitor

Justin Thomas: 22:41

tool, right? If you want to see which high school class is, you know, having the largest party, then you can do the sound meter? Maybe not, maybe not suggest that, but yeah,

Maggie Harris: 22:51

yeah, I, I definitely think that especially would be helpful for high school teachers, or even just like, I know, like that the cell phone issue. I'm sure lots of schools are struggling with of, you know, how do we get students to put their cell phones away, but kind of almost using classroom screen is also a way to talk about like, this is a time for cell phones, this is not a time for cell phones, and trying to promote some self regulation with that as well. And then another tool that I like, is actually Pear Deck. So sure, it's a lot of us No way, oh, when you join a Pear Deck, you have to check in with, you know, you have to select your feelings as well. And I think, you know, when I was using paradox, I feel like I kind of glossed over that step because there is an option to skip it. But I think that is a really valuable tool that's perhaps underutilized. And I think it's really valuable because this little you know, their little face that they choose kind of sticks with their picture on your teacher dashboard. And I think when teachers take the time to share with students, like the reason why they're being asked to select, like their emotions, and talking to them about this can affect like, the way we are learning and where our minds are at. I think it can open the door to some really positive conversations and help again, to work on that self regulation, but also keep the teacher informed on how their students are feeling. You know, if a student is you know, picking that they are upset over and over again, like, that student might be asking for help. And so instead of sharing like, oh, yeah, like, you know, this is here, like, let's keep going instead be like, alright, here, like this is up, pick how you're feeling and actually acknowledge that that screen appears and ask them to identify how they feel, I think is really beneficial. And then also with paradox, Katie, you mentioned like SEL earlier in the podcast and paradox how So a lot of SEL lessons in their content orchard. Um, and so I bring up SEL, because it plays into that this classroom management, you know, we want our students to, you know, pick up on these social emotional learning skills. And it's great that schools have been, you know, embracing SEL more and more that oftentimes it's taught in isolation. And we want to make sure that students are also practicing these skills in their, you know, their contents and their classes all the time, not just when it's like, oh, this period of the day is SEL or this block of time. And so Peridot provides a lot of great templates that teachers can easily embed into their lessons to help students practice some of those skills like reflection and self monitoring.

Justin Thomas: 25:53

Oh, Maggie, as an avid listener of the restart, recharge podcast, you know, what we like to finish our episodes with? And that is our top three tips. So Maggie, what are your top three tips for assisting teachers with classroom management strategies?

Katie Ritter: 26:10

Maybe I as a side note, I would like you to know that this question was supposed to land on me and I said, No, no, we got to give her the full experience our first time on the

Justin Thomas: 26:19

order, no question asking here.

Maggie Harris: 26:23

Well, I'm ready, I've got them. So my number one tip is to lead with empathy, this teaching is such a hard job, it's the hardest job and it can be so disheartening, when you're you know, you're dealing with challenging classroom behaviors all day, or even if it's just one class period, that class period can really ruin your whole day. And so just coming to those teachers, and showing empathy towards them, and listening to what they have to say, you know, we've talked about not in previous episodes, you know, not listening to respond, but actually listening to the teacher, I think is such a big part of, you know, building trust with the teacher, but also showing empathy as well. So that's definitely my number one tip. And then number two, you know, we want to create an opportunity for teachers to also learn from each other and create that culture of learning in the schools. And I bring this up, because you know, what, like, a teachers are teaching every day on that teaching a class every single day, I can give them strategies that I think are gonna work really well. But you know, sometimes they don't always work. And so I think it can be so beneficial for teachers to also get to hear from each other about what's working for them. And so setting up like some type of teacher shadowing program, or even just giving teachers an opportunity to brainstorm solutions together, I've done like a speed dating activity with teachers where, you know, I gave them four minutes to discuss classroom management, and they share, they brainstorm their own solutions and strategies, and then they shared with a partner. And it was great to for teachers to share like very specific statements and like sentence frames that they use when they're having these discussions with their students. And that's something that another teacher can immediately implement with their students. So just my to sum up that tip, I think it's just so essential to provide teachers with opportunities to learn from each other. Because then my last tip is to also have some strategies and tools in your tool belt, and to leverage the resources that are available to you in your districts. You know, sometimes with the teachers permission, if you are working on something that is behavior specific, like talking to that behavior coach, if you have one in your building, bringing them into the conversation to bring a different perspective, leveraging the structures, you know, if your school is really focused on restorative justice, making sure to kind of also, you know, be in line with those district initiatives or plans that they might have in place. But having, you know, strategies that you know, you have research yourself or seeing other teachers use in other classroom observation, you know, it's sometimes teachers are just looking for like, what can I do differently? Like, what can I do to help this class tomorrow and so it is helpful, so just have some things in your back pocket that you can share with them to help them you know, try to have a better day the next day. Those are great tips.

Justin Thomas: 29:38

Yeah, really good job. On your first time here on the Restore, recharge.

Maggie Harris: 29:43

Thank you for having me. Yeah,

Katie Ritter: 29:45

this is great. Lots of I think, tangible, helpful things that you know, I think we're all feeling it all over in education kiddos struggling right now and our teachers struggling to meet those needs and you know, stay He's saying themselves, it is hard to deal with problems over and over again.

Justin Thomas: 30:06

Yeah, there's just one to one of you. And there's usually 25, sometimes like 30, you know, students and sometimes even the numbers a little higher than that. But the fact of the matter is, yeah, this is, I think, a really good episode that will help our coaches kind of find ways to assist teachers in their school buildings and districts on that note.

Katie Ritter: 30:24

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Maggie, thanks for joining us. And Justin, let us know what's up next time.

Justin Thomas: 30:31

Well, next time we are actually going to have a fun episode. It's going to be talking on project based learning and we're actually going to have a special guest Scott Nunez coming on the podcast. So

Katie Ritter: 30:41

right looking forward to it. Oh, yes. All right, everybody. Well, thanks so much for joining us this week. And be sure to subscribe to restart recharge wherever you listen to podcasts. And follow us on all the social media at our our coach cast.

Justin Thomas: 30:54

And feel free to connect with us on social media as well and let us know if there's anything that is on your mind. And we would love to discuss it here on the Restore recharge podcast.

Katie Ritter: 31:03

So press the restart button,

Justin Thomas: 31:05

recharge your coaching batteries and leave feeling equipped and inspired to coach fearlessly with the restart recharge podcast,

Katie Ritter: 31:12

a tech coach collective. Also fun fact, in case this makes the bloopers Maggie's cousin made our new pod music for the past.

Justin Thomas: 31:25

That's right. All right, I'll put that on there. I'll put in like don't put it in the bleeps and bloops or maybe we should just lead off with it. Now just get up and

Katie Ritter: 31:37

move on back.

Justin Thomas: 31:38

But fun fact.

Katie Ritter: 31:40

We get I would I'm just curious to know how many people listen till the papers Oh, was that your cat? Oh my god, like a pod appearance.

Maggie Harris: 31:56

Oh my god. I was like she happens to me and was like sprinting around here in the beginning of the recording. I

Justin Thomas: 32:04

noticed. I heard

Katie Ritter: 32:06

I heard her one time and then I saw you get distracted and you almost lost her. Like she might have a competition with Justin's cat who's cabinets when he records from home