From Clash Rockstar to British Expat in Australia

Before moving to Australia, Nick Sheppard performed as a guitarist for the legendary British punk rock band, The Clash. He is now settled in Perth, Western Australia.

Nick, who performed one of The Clash's most iconic songs, 'Should I Stay Or Should I Go' on worldwide stages in front of thousands of people, emigrated down under with his wife and two young daughters from London in 1994.

The former 'London's Calling' musician tells us why he's grateful to be an immigrant in Australia. 

Nick still enjoys making and performing music and also now runs a clothing store in Australia: www.Elroyclothing.com.au

Find him on Instagram here.

NOTE: The views and opinions shared by the guest(s) in this podcast are the views and personal experiences of the guest(s) and are not necessarily representative of the views or opinions of Britstralian or the host.
 
 This episode is sponsored by Rubys Home Store (www.rubyshomestore.com.au); a delightful, eclectic British and Australian designer homewares store offering quirky décor and beautiful gifts.

Use the code 'Britstralian' to get 10% off your order.
 Find them on Facebook and Instagram - follow  @rubys_homestore 

See BRITstralian's Privacy Policy
Join our Facebook community
Like us on Instagram
Follow our Facebook Page

Britstralian acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the land on which this podcast was made. We pay our respects to the Elders of this nation, past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander cultures.

DISCLAIMER: Sponsors are third-party organisations who pay BRITstralian® a fee to be mentioned on the podcast, which helps towards the costs of producing the podcast and associated services. BRITstralian® is not responsible for providing any goods or services advertised by our sponsors and holds no control over the goods or services they provide. BRITstralian® cannot be held liable for any loss resulting in your use of those services. Your relationships with our sponsors is yours directly.
Production Music courtesy of MorningLightMusic.

Transcript

Anna Moran

Our next guest was in one of the most iconic British bands of the 70s and 80s.

Nick Sheppard

I'm Nick Sheppard - I'm 62 and a half. I've been in Australia since 1994, and when I was younger, much younger, I performed in a band that you may have heard of called The Clash. 

Anna Moran

And, if you're not familiar with The Clash, you may have heard of some of their songs. ‘London's Calling’, ‘Rock the Casbah’, and the one I can't just say without singing the words ‘Should I Stay or Should I Go?’

Nick Sheppard

And today, I am a BRITstralian, well actually because I was brought up in Bristol, I'm actually a Bris-tralian, Bristolian-Australian. There you go, I should remember that.

Anna Moran

For the past almost-three-decades he's been living a much quieter life here in Australia. So what brought you out to Perth then Nick?

Nick Sheppard

My wife Vicky is Australian. I met her in London. We had two children and I was getting quite frustrated with my career if you like, cos it's not really a career, being a musician. 

It's really difficult, you know, it’s like snakes and Ladders; you go up and you go back down and you start again. And that was getting a little bit tedious at the age of about 32. We talked about it and she said why don't, you know, we could move to Australia? It just seemed like a really good idea to do it when the children were young, they were four and two, so they hadn't really established themselves as English, if you like. 

I knew a few people who had come here as kids at a later age and they struggled with their identity and the culture and things, so I thought if we're gonna do it, let's do it now. Bring them over here and they can grow up Australian. 

Anna Moran 

Had you been to Australia before?

Nick Sheppard

Yeah. I think I'd been here about 3 or 4 times before we came out. We’d come out on, you know, at Christmas- we eventually got here in ‘94.

Anna Moran

And what is it you like about Australia? What drew you here?

Nick Sheppard

Well, I mean I always remember thinking when I was on holiday all the great things about this place are free. The beach and the weather, and my brother-in-law had a little tin boat that we used to go crabbing in and you know I just used to think what a fantastic thing to be able to do and you don't need to be a Millionaire to have a little tinny you know and some crab nets. It's a really normal thing here, You know you can't do that anywhere in England and I just thought what a great place for the kids to go up. So initially it was, yeah the kind of lifestyle and the fact that there was so much, kind of freedom, really.

Anna Moran 

But it's a world away from the life that you would have been living in London the people that you would have been hanging out with. 

Nick Sheppard 

Yeah, well that gets old. There were definite challenges when I got here, lifestyle-wise and culture wise but I don't regret it for a minute. It wasn't what I left behind, so much as what I had to build here. 

Anna Moran 

Yes, yeah, and how did you find it, you said there were some challenges. What would you say the challenges were?

Nick Sheppard

They will they were mainly for me I guess on a professional level at on a musical level cultural you know I grew up watching Top of the Pops as we all did and I was exposed by that show and by house parties and by you know discos and stuff to Motown and stacks and Reggae and, and Funk and Soul and I don't play that stuff in I play rock and roll music basically. 

I'm a punk, but it informs what I do and I found very quickly that it doesn't inform it certainly didn't inform the first musicians that I met here so it took me a while to find people who I gelled with I'm not talking about like musical proficiency. 

I'm not talking about how good you are, I'm talking about what you grew up with and that makes a big difference to the way you view things and the way you view you know, music is a language, and if you're not speaking the same language with the drummer you're playing with, you're in trouble and of course, things have changed now because back when I moved here there wasn't the internet 94 this was a very very isolated place.

Anna Moran

How often do you go back to the UK?

Nick Sheppard

I would say on average I've probably been back every two years. 

Anna Moran 

How long do you go back for? 

Nick Sheppard

A couple of weeks, two to three weeks. I can't, I can't really justify it for less than 2 weeks. That's enough for me. I mean I feel now when I go but you know I've been here for 28 years. I feel when I go back most of the places I go to I feel a bit like a ghost. You know I don't really fit in anymore and I'm now going on holiday. 

I'm going back to where I used to live and work. Yeah, it's lovely but you know I've got a full life here. You know I work, I play music, I DJ, you know I have a full life here, a busy full life and so when I go back. I feel a bit out of sorts in a way. I don't really have much to do with it anymore and my friends when I go back people I know there, are working, they've got a busy life. So they can't stop and you know hang.

My favourite thing to do when I go back is go to Whales, which is where we had a cottage and we used to go there every weekend, so my favourite place to go is there because nothing changed there. It's the countryside, so I don't feel lost if you like. I don't feel like a ghost there, I feel really grounded there. 

London had changed so much. The pub I used to go to, the first place I ever saw CCTV cameras there in the toilets to stop the drug deals. It was as rough as guts but it was a great pub, you know? You got like landed Gentry looking for drugs, dealers selling them drugs and everybody in between like guys off the market. You know, like dust men and you know desolate people like me, lots of musicians. 

You know just having a great time in this smokey Irish pub called the Earl of Warwick and it's not even called the Earl of Warwick now, I think it's now called the Warwick and it's all shabby chic and guys with neck tattoo-making Pimm's for Yummy mummies you know it's changed like you won't believe so I sat in there and again I just thought I don't belong here anymore. 

Anna Moran 

So you don't miss it? 

Nick Sheppard

What you miss  I think is memories. You know like you you miss I mean you know but I guess because you've moved physically from somewhere there is a line, a delineation whereas my friends who live in Bristol and have lived there since they were you know a kid. 

They don't have that there's no there's no cut-off point when I go back and I walk into the local it's like I've never been away for some of them. 

They don't really see that they don't see that line whereas.I do obviously because I'm not there so I miss yeah I guess I miss my past you know but I go back and it's not there so I'm cool with that you know I've come to realise what's going on now even after I went back after 2-years being here and I was like Jesus it's changed, but it wasn't really it that had changed, at that time it was me. So um, yeah. I don't miss it. No. 

Anna Moran 

So could you tell me how you ended up being in The Clash?

Nick Sheppard

Well, I obviously am a guitar player and I was in a punk rock band in the 70s called The Cortinas when I was 17, carried on playing music and eventually was told by my girlfriend's best friend actually, girlfriend at the time that The Clash were auditioning for a new guitar player so I and I was like I don't want to do that. I'm too busy, I had loads of things on the go and then I organised the rehearsal for one of the Bands I was in no one turned up and I thought sod this. I'm fed up with organising everything. I'm going to go and try and join The Clash and then I won't have to organise anything, it'll be organised for me and it'll be easy so I rang her up and said I'll go for an audition and I got it. 

It was hard work, but at the same time it was an incredible experience which lasted for 2 years  

Anna Moran 

So you joined later on so The Clash already existed and then you joined. 

Nick Sheppard

Yeah, they had been playing since about 1976 and to be fair. I wasn't an equal member. I was paid by them to do a job, they sacked their guitar player, he wrote the music, Joe Strummer would have wrote the words but yeah. 

Anna Moran 

So I've read that Joe Strummer was a massive icon in the early 80s He was known for being quite political and quite outspoken. What was he like to work with?

Nick Sheppard

Really accommodating, very kind no star trip. I mean that was the whole point of you know what had happened before I joined is he didn't want to be a pop star. 

His problem was always he didn't wanna be what he was which was a popstar you know which was a very successful band and you know, the lead guy in a very successful band and sacking you know his main songwriting partner. He became the figurehead for that band, the sole figurehead, and that made it very difficult for him and gave him alot of, contradictions that he didn't like but he didn't take them out on us.

Anna Moran 

Good, aw that's nice to hear. That's really nice that you had like a good experience in the band. And did you keep in touch with Joe and the others after the band broke up? 

Nick Sheppard 

Yeah, sporadically yeah, he interestingly came to Perth for one of the big day outs. I think the year before he passed away and stayed on and we hung out and it was really nice. And we showed him around to come to the beach and you know. 

Anna Moran 

Is that the last time you saw him? 

Nick Sheppard 

Yeah, it was, and you know I kind of wrote to him a couple of times, emailed him a couple of times after that and he sent me a postcard, and then boom. Yeah, very sad. 

Anna Moran 

Have you ever been recognised here in Australia? 

People come up sometimes and talk about it. Yeah, most of the time initially people go no you weren't, you know like it would be like he was never in Rhe Clash because I'm not you know I'm not one of the original members. I'm not I'm not yeah. 

Anna Moran 

Do people, were you more recognised back in the UK that what you would be here? 

Nick Sheppard 

I really don't know, I don't - I don't think I would be particularly recognised.

Anna Moran 

Because London's quite an anonymous place and it can be

Nick Sheppard

It is yeah, the only time. I-I just remember twice in London before I moved here to being pounced on by Italians and then there was one time towards the end of me being in the band with someone beat me up. 

Anna Moran 

No

Nick Sheppard

Yeah, probably cause I'd taken their favourite song writer place or something. I don't know, but yeah, no I'm not really you know. 

Anna Moran 

Do you like that though? Do you like the anonymity? How do you say that? Anonymity? 

Nick Sheppard 

Anonymity, yeah really, I mean I mean it sometimes it's quite, it can be a bit cringey and people come up to you and start off. It's a bit embarrassing yeah, but not I mean it is you can it's not massive. I'm not it's not like I'm not like I am so I'm not I'm not Beyonce. 

Anna Moran 

Aw, but Nick it's such an incredible thing. You've played music in front of crowds of?

Nick Sheppard 

I think the biggest crowd is about 75000 but yeah, it's that's great and that's something that I've done and I love it. You know and I still do it and I had, to be honest, I get as much enjoyment playing the 50 people in a pub and then 75000 people, the first rows about 20-ft away from you. It's very hard to make any real connection the smaller the room the more connection you have with the people. 

Anna Moran 

True

Nick Sheppard

But the bigger the room the more they act as one like it you know if you got 75000 people that are standing there wanting to see you you pretty much got it made as soon as you walk on. You don't have to really convince them of anything. 

I remember being in Paris and our manager, we went to see England play France. My manager's going look at that you know that you know if England makes a mistake the half the room scream at them. Whereas you walk on stage in the whole room just lets you get away with murder as soon as you walk on it's like yeah, so. 

Anna Moran 

What does that feel like? 

Nick Sheppard 

What does it feel like? It can, I mean you can you got a job to do you get a real buzz out of you know yeah, I mean that's why some people love it and some people hate it and if you can if you like the buzz if you like the adrenaline then it's fantastic.

Anna Moran 

For some people, moving to the other side of the world is the biggest, bravest thing that they've ever done. For you, you've had some unbelievable experiences, like the ones we've just spoken about, and you know experiences that people would only dream of really. Is there anything that you've wanted to do that you wish you had?

Nick Sheppard 

I don't think so, I don't think there's anything in my control that I've let go, or I've let slip. I'm very glad that I moved to here. 

Anna Moran

Are you? 

Nick Sheppard 

Yeah, I think that is probably one of the yeah. I'm really -  probably the best thing I ever did because my kids had a fantastic childhood and fantastic education which I could never afford to give them in England but more than that you know more scholastic side of things was their childhood was them being on a tinny catching crabs or at the beach or being able to be out, just in terms of the openness of Australian people compared to English people. The way you know, if you walk the dog in the morning you say hello to everyone, it just doesn't happen over there in England.

I remember walking down a street I'd gotten I got up early I was over there with a friend in London and because I have kids I got early and thought I'll go and get it on a coffee and a loaf of bread with a coffee and a loaf of bread down is still cold alleyway and it's just me and this fella walking towards me so I said morning and he can't have looked away and he quickly shuffled off and I thought oh what's wrong with him? Oh yeah, he'd English. 

You know so that side of things I mean and I guess you know if you got the Manchester that wouldn't happen or Liverpool everyone to say hello and also they-they escaped the Horrors of the English class system, which are you know when you go back and you can it's like a layer cake. You know when you've been away from it and you go back. 

Anna Moran 

You forget about it here, don't you here? 

Nick Sheppard 

You can just see this ridiculous strata thing going on like it you like a layer cake upper-middle this and lower you know that is stifling. I think that's one of the biggest problems the UK has and it you know it just taints so much of the experience of being there and I'm so glad to be out of that and away from there and not dealing with that. 

Anna Moran 

I was actually going to ask you, whether when you go back, do you feel like you could live there again. 

Nick Sheppard

No, No I really don't I mean  I'll go back to Wales and I think I can spend some time here because I'm on top of a mountain with nobody else. I can't see England and I'm 62. I can't see England as a place to grow old. I really can't you know I really - I really feel for my friends who are over there. I don't see that. And especially right now. 

Anna Moran 

Do you have any family back there Nick? 

Nick Sheppard 

Yeah, I'm going back to see my Mum, and my brother and sister are both there too. I mean, they're okay, they've got good lives but I just feel so privileged to be here. 

When I got my citizenship papers, I was a bit blase about it, you know I'd been here for so long and I went to the town hall and took a seat and Vicky was sitting next to me and in front of us was, you know, there was a row of, I think they were from Thailand. They sounded like they were from Thailand and they were like you know guys from the middle east and guys from all over the world getting citizenships. 

I just thought God, you know what if someone says to me, yeah you know we're not renewing that visa of yours. You gotta go home, just like all of these people in that room who you know we're like so happy to get this piece of paper because it meant they didn't have to go back. I thought - well what if someone, I'd never thought of that, and I thought what if someone says to me, you gotta go back. You can't stay here, I'd be devastated. I really - I really would, I feel as much of an economic refugee as they are. 

You know as anybody that comes here, I think I've escaped and have a better life. I don't see much difference really other than I wasn't in physical danger. The opportunities that I've been afforded here have been amazing, they're like, what I do here for a coin is I have a shop called Elroy Clothing, we looked around and went oh there's nothing like that, oh where am I going to buy my clothes, oh I'm not. 

Okay, well I'll open a shop then I won't have to and I think that is the thing, that's what's interesting about immigrants and that's what we are, is that you bring something and that's what's important about this country, is it's a country of immigrants and every immigrant that's come here has brought something, be it food, culture, and what me and my wife brought was we basically, we sell vintage. 

Anna Moran 

Do you have any famous names in your phone book? Do you still keep in touch with people?

Nick Sheppard 

Um, do I have any famous names? Yeah, I mean probably, I mean but it's, people used to say to me aw do you know the stones? Do you know Mick Jagger? 

No, No I don't. I live in London he probably lives all over the world You know, I don't read music, I am a guitar player who can write songs and sing and I know other people that can do the same thing or play drums or play you know. I don't really have like a list of A-list celebrities in my phone book, I just have a list of people that I've worked with, or I've met. So no, to be honest no. I don't have a list of you know, A-list celebrities 

Anna Moran 

You can find the details of Nick Sheppards clothing store on the BRITstralian website. www.BRITstralian.com