Unlocking Color Talent with Marianne Shillingford

If you are not yet a color enthusiast, you will once listening to this joyful episode with ambassador of color, Marianne Shillingford. Marianne will reveal what role color trends play in decoration and how you can apply color to enhance wellness in people's lives. As Founder of the Colour Design Awards she is now planning for the next event in June this year. Marianne furthermore explains how her search for emerging design talent comes about and what she believes is true color innovation. 

Marianne Shillingford has over 30 years of experience in the interiors industry as a decorating and colour expert. As Creative Director of Dulux at Akzonobel she works closely with many creative disciplines from designers, architects and professional decorators to global colour experts and of course the Dulux Dog. She is a passionate expert and skilled communicator with experience in TV, radio and journalism. Marianne is also the founder of the Colour in Design Awards, which recognises and rewards outstanding use of colour in design by emerging creative talent.

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Transcript

Judith van Vliet: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Color Authority. Today I'm going to be interviewing Marianne Schillingford. She has over 30 years of experience in the interiors industry as a decorating and color expert. She is creative director at Akzo Nobel, and she works closely with many creative disciplines, from designers, architects, and professional decorators to global color experts and, of course, the Dulux Dog. She is a passionate expert and skilled communicator with experience in TV, radio, and journalism. Marianne is also the founder of the Color In Design Awards, which recognizes and rewards outstanding use of color InDesign by emerging creative talent. Good afternoon, Marianne. Welcome to the Color Authority. How are you today?

Marianne Shillingford: Well, I'm very happy. It's just been the most beautiful, sunny day, and everything is growing in the garden, and yes, I mean, can't be happier, to be honest. Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: So I'm very happy to have you, and I'm excited to be talking to you. But as in all my podcasts, even now, this third season, I've decided to continue to ask that very first question, which is, what is color to you? So, Marianne, what is it to you?

Marianne Shillingford: I'm sure everybody says color is everything, but color color. I realized how important color was when I was very young. My dad grew up on we grew up on a rose nursery. My dad bred roses for their color and their perfume, and he used to create a color catalog of all of his roses. And at the time, every year, which he used to do this, he used to be completely absorbed by matching color to petals and making sure that it looked right in print. That's sort of the importance of getting an experience of color, of communicating color to customers and helping them unlock the potential of that in their gardens and on their walls. I got that from a very early age, and it seemed to be the only thing that kind of first interview I ever went to was for court hold, and I had to grade thousands of colors in the spectrum and just put them all as if they would appear on the spectrum. And I came out today. It's brilliant. It was a brilliant thing to do. And the guy said, I've never seen anybody do it like that before. And I thought, well, actually, because I know this and it's everything. It's ridiculous. When I see a color because of my dad, I smell it. My mom made wine. She made wine out of rose petals, and it was all about the color of the rose, and I can taste it. And so when people when we are naming colors or we're describing colors, it's about the way the color makes you feel and not just how it looks. It's beautiful, but how it makes you feel. And there's a whole sensory thing, and, you know, honestly, I am nearly 60 years old, and every day I get up and I go, I am the luckiest woman on the planet because I get to do and work with something that I'm completely passionate about. I think I'm good at it. Not many people, you know, you don't often, you know, I'm all right at this. I actually think I'm really good at this answer to your question, but it kind of is everything.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. So actually, what you just said makes me very curious. You say that you can smell and sometimes you think you can even taste a color. Are you a synesthee?

Marianne Shillingford: I don't know. With color, most definitely. Yes, definitely. Yeah, I must be. I must be, because no color anybody ever chose me doesn't have an experience or another sensory experience attached to it. And a lot of my work is describing the characteristics of a color. So you have to understand how to get into somebody's head and whether that's connection with food, flowers or smell or a holiday or stand or some material, it's trying to explain that. And as soon as you start talking about those kind of things, you start to go. And quite a lot of our colors I love food. Quite a lot of our colors are food related, and they're very sensory related. Generally, when I get to start nutrition.

Judith van Vliet: Reminds me of that. I did a podcast with cognitive neuroscience, and she indeed explained on people what it's like. She did not have synthesia herself, but what obviously it is and how you connect it to color, to flavor a little bit, to smells as well. And then I did a podcast with Julia Hamilton, who is an artist, who is a dynasty, and she has a similar one to what Kandinsky would have. I'm quite sure you have that as well. I think there's a lot of people that have it, and they're obviously not really they don't know that they're having it. For them, it's live. And it sounds like for you, color from a very early age on was part of your life, because my next question was going to be you being a true color ambassador. Oh, my God, I have so many questions I want to ask you. But when I just think about what you just said, you knew very early age that you were going to be in color, then that was because of your dad or not?

Marianne Shillingford: Well, it was. I mean, I realized that the color was not just a beautiful thing. It was commerce as well. The color would put food on our table. The first time I ever earned money, it was bliss painting. And I realized that because my dad was self employed and sort of earning money out of the thing you're good at, and the thing, you know was really important. It was really important to be able because that was the secret to a happy life. You were doing something that you were good at and you would be paid for. I mean, how wonderful is that? And paint. My dad painted. He taught me how to use a drill, how to paint very practical, how to build things. And painting was really important. He was also used to paint and my mother used to paint. And so that becomes something that becomes part of what you do as well. Yeah, it is. It's a lifestyle choice. It is. Literally, if somebody had written what I was going to do, you would not believe it. And I'm doing exactly what I think I'm here to do. And I know it sounds silly because I work in color, I don't work in paint, and I don't save lives. But I aim to make life a little bit better and people are a bit happier and use color because color is such a simple ingredient to everything, and yet it's something we use every day. It's the most powerful. We use it to help to keep us safe on the roads. We use it to choose the type of milk that got less fat in it, more fat in it. We're constantly using a language of color every single day, and yet we don't realize the full potential power of it. And so hopefully, when I die on my gravestone, it will say, she gave it her best shot and she made the life a little bit more colorful.

Judith van Vliet: Color increases our wellness. And just like you said, it really is something that gives purpose in life. And in other words, it can have an important impact on our daily lives beyond the red lights, when obviously you should stop, or it's best that you stop. Can you elaborate a little bit on this? You just mentioned a few things, but how do you, for example, personally use color in your daily life to enhance, let's say, your own wellness?

Marianne Shillingford: Well, I use color personally in my wardrobe, so when I get a gutter in the morning, if I'm feeling a little bit sort of tired or I know I've got a big job to do or a big job of communication, I will go and put on the brightest color I have in my wardrobe. I love orange and bright pink, a color that really makes people it makes people smart. Not necessarily. I might not feel exactly like that. It helps me to turn the lights on. It helps me to feel confident. It draws people to you. It makes people smile. They think they don't think you're going to be scared in that you're going to be fun. And so that actually really, honestly gives me the confidence to do things. Now, I'm wearing a lovely blue tunic today because my boss is it. And I don't want to seem silly to my boss. I want to seem very grown up, very organized. And so I'll wear something that was bright and there's a little bit there's a different kind of energy. And I know that he would respond, he wouldn't notice me and I could probably get away with terrible things wearing something that was a little more restrained. And blue is a color, or lately, colors calm they like to see. It helps me calm down. It helps me think of a slightly different way so I can be less silly and I can be a little bit more grown up. And in my home, in different parts of my home, I have different pockets of color that really give me a boost when I need a boost and then really calm me down when I need to calm down, because I am a very bouncy person. If you've ever heard of Tigger the Tiger, that's kind of like me. And it's not good to be jumping up and down all the time. So I have parts of my home, there's a beautiful, really deep blue wall here and that's in my bedroom, and that just helps me switch off. So that it's an amazing tool. If you're feeling like you need some more confidence and use a color, wear a color that has more confidence that you have and it will give you the energy you need to get you through something. And I truly believe that.

Judith van Vliet: I absolutely, truly believe that that's something that I mean, I've noticed, I think a lot of people have been experiencing with color and how they're wearing color, also how people are reacting to you. And like I said, you finally love you just mentioned your boss. You've been at Dulux for many years. What has enabled this, let's say happy marriage.

Marianne Shillingford: I looked at some old videos the other day and it was video of them. I used to run my own business, so I ran a decorating business. I used to paint fairground rides when I was younger and that led onto interior design because I got children, it's not easy to paint a fairground outside. We've got kids, so most interiors and what I was doing with paint was quite interesting at the time. And Dulux had created a fantastic material product that was a water based, solvent free version of something I was using, a solvent basis, and I made the switch and started to do it was the most fantastic. And somebody from Dulux saw me do this with my business, with this product and asked me to do a video. And that was when I was pregnant with my first child, Jack, who is now 31. So that was a kind of match made in heaven, a little steep stone. And then for many years afterwards, I demonstrated the products, used them in my own business, television. And then Juliet sort of sponsored that. So Juliet has always been there. Let me tell you a story. My uncle, the decorator, when I was 18, I wanted to leave home and I was wanting to start my own business. And I went to my uncle because I wanted to decorate it. I wanted to paint and do murals. And that's what I wanted, to wear my money out. And I said, give me some great advice, Uncle John. And Uncle John picked up a tin of July. He said, don't ever use anything but this. He said, if you buy cheap paint, you'll be doing twice as long to buy the best. Always buy the best and it will never let you down. And those seeds from when you're young stick in there. And I've always used the best. It's brilliant pain. And then here I am now, and I'm very proud of that. It was a long time ago, 31 years ago.

Judith van Vliet: Well, I think you should it takes a great, let's say give and take on both ends. I mean, you're obviously doing very well. You're promoting the brand, and they're getting something great out of it. So I do think that when it's possible, it's only wonderful when this happens. Now that I'm just talking to you and also, we've had, obviously, an early conversation. You told me that color also is pure joy, and I think we can both agree on that. Indeed, when I speak to you as well, and I think this is regardless of the sun shining today in the UK, which I know is not the most sunny place in the continent, it's also possibly part of your you just radiate joy and it's probably part of your personality. But is it also indeed, I should say I'm doing something that I love. It's something that each and every day I get to work with color.

Marianne Shillingford: Yeah, absolutely. I said to my children, all of my children are self employed. And I say to my children that if you have a job and you get up in the morning and you feel a bit sick, that's a job. Or you're just like, that's a job. If you throw up at the job and it's not good for you, but if you go to work and you have a good day and you enjoy it, that's nirvana. If your work and your life are just interlinked and your hobby is what you do I mean, I paint. That's what I do. I use our products. I paint. I go and decorate other people's houses this week, and I was painting my mother's house. That makes me the luckiest person because I love the job, and the job is just part of who I am, what my life is. I'm just trying to think of what other thing would be great if was I in cakes or wine, maybe. I think there could be another niche.

Judith van Vliet: I'm going to be asking about you. What's next for you? So who knows what's going to be next for you after this very big adventure that seems to be continuing over the couple of years and day? But interesting that you said you were just decorating other people's houses. You were decorating friends and family's houses. When you do develop colors for decoration. They need to have different purposes, right? Depending on the room that you're working in, but also at the same time you want to do and you work also with color trends. How do they play together? So let's say the color psychology, what is, let's say, needed for somebody? Each and every person is different, but what is needed for that client of yours? But how do you tweak that with color trends?

Marianne Shillingford: I think one of the very interesting things about color trends is up until a few years ago, we do a global trend forecasting process called color futures. And up until a few years ago, probably about six or seven years ago, we have a collection of amazing experts, independent experts, that come together and they're invited together to talk about design, the state of the world, what's important to us, what's the new big thing? What's the next new big thing? And a few years ago, the main focus of the conversation was about people, was about what we wanted as human beings, what made us feel good, what we were worried about, what we thought was luxury. And luxury wasn't stuff. Luxury wasn't the watch or the car or the iPhone. Luxury was time. Luxury was an experience. Luxury was being with friends and family. Luxury was nature. And our trend forecasting became more and more accurate and organic and intuitive. It follows what human beings really want rather than following what's on the catwalk that's always going to play a part in things. I look at my wardrobe and some of the things that I found years ago, and I think, well, how could I ever wear that? So we're always going to be influenced by fashion, but more so than ever, we're influenced by the way that we feel and the way that we feel. We occupy this space, the things that we find important. And over the last few years, we've noticed this. Return to the familiar, return to nature, return to the things that are precious, transient, super precious, but don't cost you anything. And that forecasting has become more it's so much more fundamental and lasting and enduring. And you get these colors popping up, you know, sell it somewhere, you'll see it in the shops. You'll go, oh my God, everybody's got pink, everybody's doing. And these colors, they come, they build, and they stay. If they're good colors, they stay. And then they go away and they come back like good fashion. But then there's this really solid bedrock at the moment, it's the colors of nature, the plants, the colors that make us feel good when we're feeling anxious. And it's no surprise, it's not rocket science. It makes perfect sense. And also this we talk about joy, these flashes of joy that we need in our lives. We're in the spring, I look out of my window and I can see a bush in bloom and see some flowers, and they are the flashes of joy. And I think that in color can give us that. If you get the balance right in your home, you can have the flashes rather than being overwhelmed by it or feel like you're buying into a trend. I don't like the word trend. It's a tool, wonderful tool. You create a palette of colors that captures the mood of the moment perfectly and you give it to your customer. You say, Here, we've done the research. You think this is really important and people will take it. And they either take it, love it, or they leave it. And if they leave it, you've got it wrong. And we haven't got it wrong. I don't think we've got it wrong because we're following what people want and what they need right now. And the world is we need a lot from the world. We need to give a lot back. We need a lot from the world. We are all in an anxious place and it's not over yet. And so we need it more than ever, these simple selves for the human condition. And I think color is one of them. One of many, but I think it's.

Judith van Vliet: One of them, as I just said earlier in the introduction, that I'm going to be teaching color Trend forecasting this week to, let's say, very young professionals. And I know they're going to think that they're just going to be doing color trends. And indeed, you're not the first person that doesn't agree to the word trend anymore. I tend to use the word directions or movements or societal movements, but they haven't understood yet that what I'm going to be teaching them is how to look at people and how to look at society. And I think they're going to be confused the first module, because we were like, what is this about color trends? But that's what I'll teach them, the societal part of it and then how you translate it. So it's going to be a curious exercise. I have this feeling. Do you think there is any particular colors, just genuinely that you feel new entries are really changing how we are shaping this new future that we're now entering? Post pandemic, midst of European war.

Marianne Shillingford: Yeah, I would have said a few years ago, green was not a favorite color of people. Green was an unlucky color for cars because a green car blended into the environment. But green was never a color that we would have really embraced in our environment, in our homes. And suddenly green is everywhere, and deep blues as well. That's another color that you would see it in a magazine and you would say, yes, that L decoration. Definitely yes, because I'd be there. They wouldn't have it in my living room. And then suddenly everybody one of our bestselling colors. And that corn is a color called Sapphire Salute. It's most beautiful, rich, deep, gorgeous blue. And it's our best selling color. And then pink came out of the blue. Pink this beautiful color that you pink. The word pink itself is just such a lovely word. And then suddenly everybody is using pink in all of it's. Not the sweet, sweet candy pink, but soft petal pink. And suddenly that's there, and then there's deep blue and then emerald green comes through the door and you're going and I think it's more than a trend. I think it's something for the deep blues. If you put deep blues and deep greens in a room and you're really stressed and you can't sleep, it really helps you to relax and unwind. If you surround yourself with the softest pink, you can't help but have a giggle and everything looks good and everything looks gently happy. Not joyful, loud and shouty, but just for something. And these colors have crept up and there are some really interesting colors. When I go out to the design shows, I'm starting to see colors that are transient. They change when they get bleached by the sun, they grow, they change with heat. And I think that's a lovely response to often when colors change in different lights, you think, oh, it's a fault for the color. I love that. I love that my hair looks different in the sunshine, my clothes look different in the sun. I love it that at night you look different, you feel different, and the colors respond differently at different times of the day and I love that. I think that's just things not being fixed is interesting. Somebody saw there was a big article about yellow, about this amazing yellow, what the restaurant was called, and they painted it, repainted the whole of the restaurant. Now in this kind of bright, incredible yellow, fantastic if you want to go and have this amazing shot of energy, but that suddenly pops up everywhere and everybody's talking about yellow, yellow and yellow. And I think there's come and go, but there's something about what do we need in that yellow? What is it that's making us so happy? Because yellow is the color of daffodils, color of spring, color of baby chicks, sunshine, energy, optimism. We need that. They make the news because it's something that we need.

Judith van Vliet: I think it is something that we definitely I was walking on the streets of Milan just this early morning and I saw that obviously it's mainly fashion, but pink, but also very bright fuchsia. And indeed the softer yellows, they are literally everywhere. Now, I'm not too sure about the brighter pink, if that's going to stay for longer, but when we talk about, let's say, colors that will have a longer life expectancy, do you believe that those are indeed those darker blues and those, let's say, natural greens? Or do you think longevity is a different color?

Marianne Shillingford: Longevity is usually a sort of more pared down version of what you're seeing on the catwalk, because in paint on a wall, you're looking at colors that have to have for your customers for three to five years cycle. So you need to create colors that they're going to live with and love for a long period of time. You wouldn't wear the same dress or the same suit or the same trousers or shoes every day of three years, would you? Because you have to choose colors that capture something that maybe just turn it down a little bit. And so yes, I think blues and greens are here to stay. I think that all of those organic colors and natural materials are going to be definitely getting bigger and bigger and bigger. But I think you'll have these when it comes to pinks and the yellows. In restaurants and commercial settings, you can turn the volume up because people are in there for just a brief period of time. They get the shop and then they go. In our homes, we add a little gray, we just mute it down, take the energy, just a little bit of the energy, and then make it easier to live with for a long period of time. So we do the same kind of thing, but we may be just taking the essence of something rather than the full on experience of something that you've just seen in Milan in a fashion.

Judith van Vliet: The color forecasting we just mentioned, it's a very interesting topic. You said that in the last couple of years with Color Future, you've changed a little bit the methodology. So you've been more focusing on people instead of maybe what's on the fashion. Do you think trend forecasting is changing?

Marianne Shillingford: Well, I think so. Actually, we didn't change the methodology. Our experts brought something different to the table. And one of the most powerful things we have, experts from all of them, fashion, design, architecture, and they come together and influence and they come together and they chat about stuff. And it was last year, a guy called Jim Biddles, most amazing man, just been through to heaven back, not just the pandemic, he actually had cancers. Only a man in his early 30s. He's the most wonderful materials expert. He shared with us. People have to put a presentation together that sort of says, you know, what's happening in our country, in our region. And he put a presentation together and it was his reflection of the town he was in and what he could actually go and see. And he showed a picture of a wall and somebody had painted on the wall, we are golden. And it was written in gold. And he said when I saw this, everything was going to help. We were in a pandemic and recovering from cancer and I read we are golden on a wall. And I thought, yeah, we are golden. And it gave him a huge lift. And honestly, the whole panel was crying because it's kind of what we all wanted to hear. We wanted to hear an uplifting story we wanted to see it connected with the color. We wanted somebody to tell us something good.

Judith van Vliet: Oh, gold is part of the yellow color family.

Marianne Shillingford: Yes. We are golden. You are golden. And it was just lovely, simple message that you are golden and you're precious as a human being. And it was a very simple thing. And the conversations are very, you know, about what we're talking about, what's happening around the world. It is not just about the catwalk and the things that we see or something coming through in color or what our competitors are doing. Very much about the way we're responding to the things that are happening around us and where we retreat to and find our solace. Yeah, it was lovely. I'm not doing story justice, but everybody else had presented this amazing this is happening here and this is happening here. And then Jim came on and he did this thing he talked about and everybody in the room. We are golden.

Judith van Vliet: I think sometimes it's the simplicity, right? And it is the empathy, which it's been a word that's been coming back in many of my conversations, empathy. It is the future, society, time and freedom. Obviously, it's one of the most important ones.

Marianne Shillingford: Yeah. And this sense of well being, because up until we've all been through the most horrendous, we're all going into, my well being was a spa day. Doing your nails, maybe sort of doing a bit of yoga or eating healthily and well being. It's a whole package. It's feeling in your mind if you've got to get your mind in the right place, and you have to create the environment in which you feel good. And I think that that's what we're tapping into now. Creating spaces in which there's an outcome, something happens, something positive happens, encourages. And I think color is part of that. Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: I think the feature of color is into more and more, into how we truly can feel better.

Marianne Shillingford: Definitely. And there's a sensory element to it. Now, one of our products that we launched last year, products called Heritage, the most beautiful palette of 112 colors from the best of the past, present and future color futures. Colors are in there as well. So it's just a beautifully created, curated palette. Colors are lovely, but the feel, the sensory texture, so when you're running hand across the surface, it feels like velvet, like skin. It's just beautifully soft. So it's added another dimension to an experience of a space. So you choose fabrics or you choose something to touch them. Now you can touch the walls as well. So there are other things that we're.

Judith van Vliet: Doing that create a different experience, and they are exciting. It's exciting to look beyond what is just you right, but also what is the whole material and the finishing part of that. You are also founder of the Color InDesign Award that you created to indeed recognize and reward innovative use of. Color in design by new designers in the UK. An amazing thing. Congratulations to that. But again, this is how we always tend to get back to the same conversation, perhaps, but the reason why you created this and why you found it, the awards, has a rather sentimental and beautiful story, which I think we talked a little bit about it in the beginning, but would you like sharing that with us?

Marianne Shillingford: Anybody who knows I'm a selfie old thing, and I do think about as you get older, you think about what's the sum total of your life? Why are you here? What are you here to do? What are you going to leave behind? And leave behind something positive. When my dad died, he left me some money and Edward and I worked. This money was lovely. Could have bought a nice car, could have built a little garden room or something. And I thought, well, actually, I'm going to do something. I think dad would like this. I would love to do this. I meet a lot of young people, creative young people, who have gone through years and years of study building up huge amounts of debt, and they haven't really achieved their full potential because they've gone out there in the big world world with loads of talent, but no real help. And I thought, well, if I focus on a ward, more than one award or award, on helping develop talent within color and unlocking its potential within a new generation, and also taking a very simple ingredient, because it is a very simple ingredient, but saying rewarding and recognizing designers who are using color to make a positive impact on people's lives. I started it as a thing a few years ago. I didn't know whether it would take off. That's one of those things. So dad hopefully smiling somewhere makes me very happy. And it's helping students to understand the power of color and design a little bit more. There's some amazing judges who take part every year. They give their time for free, which is extraordinary. They give their wisdom and their support and their help to the students who get through. I do lots of pause. In fact, next week, I'm off to Nottingham University to do a color workshop, just to encourage people to think about color in a slightly different way as a powerful material. It almost doesn't cost you anything. You change the outcome of what you're designing. Yeah, it's been going for, I think this is about the 7th year now. Quite a lot of awards. There are two main ones that start that we launch new designers in June and then we have awards throughout the year. But it's a lovely thing. There's another thing. It might be on my gravestone, but it is lovely. It is a joyful thing.

Judith van Vliet: I'm rather sure that your dad is smiling right now. Indeed, I'm very sure. I think it's a beautiful way to think of him. Obviously, and to give him all the credit for where you, in the end, also ended up in life. Now, one of the other reasons that you also founded the Design Awards is because you think color is often overlooked.

Marianne Shillingford: Oh, yeah.

Judith van Vliet: So you elaborate on that, but also how you think you're helping people to really understand why color is so important in design.

Marianne Shillingford: Yeah, I mean, if you create a beautiful product and you get the color on, because you've either misread the trend or the mood of the moment or something you get the color on, nobody ever looks at that product. So if the color is clever, or even if you're championing the material, the raw material, the natural color of the material, it's really important. And I think we see color when we talk about color. We think it's something that's surface, a surface coating. It's just a decoration, and it's so much more than a decoration. We're only just beginning to understand the power of color to initiate a behavior or response. We're only just understanding the power of color to change your mood, to uplift you, to help you calm down. We are only just scratching the surface of all of that. And so it's a hugely powerful tool in design, and people can also create their own distinctive voice and look and style. Using a palette of colors doesn't have to be colorful for colorful sake. It's hugely important and understanding how it's made, creating your own, having your own sort of house style. Most of the most successful designers I know, if you gave me a pair of colors from their designs, I'd tell you exactly who they are straight away, because it's so distinctive. It's like handwriting. And when you teach young people in design how important that is, I think everything else becomes a lot easier. When we're doing color workshops between the pair, down a palette of five colors and try and pair it down to three, if you can, but five colors, and then start to work with how much of this color so in proportion, how are you going to use these colors? And lots of people come with colorful things, but it means nothing. It's confusing. But if you think about it right at the beginning of the design process, it unlocks so much potential. Yeah, I could go on for hours about this, but it's more than skin deep.

Judith van Vliet: It's interesting what you just said. That you could look at the colors of an artist. And maybe they won't tell you who this artist is and that you would know who it is. Because branding and I'm not talking about the big branding for large beverage brands. Which we can all imagine who they are. But it's interesting that if you really nail color when you're doing as a designer. Is that it is such a powerful tool by whom you can be recognized.

Marianne Shillingford: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It's a signature. It can be a signature range. And it doesn't have to be complicated. I mean, you look at Abigail, she owns the dark, but then you look at this palette of colors together and you just go, that's how it goes. I can see that Kate Miles is not a designer who uses most vibrant blues and beautiful jewel color. I know exactly who that is. Yet. Tom Dixon. Just any designer. You could just put little palettes of colors again. You go, oh, yeah, you know who they are. And that is powerful and it's valuable. It's really valuable.

Judith van Vliet: You talk to in the Color Design Awards, you talk about color innovation. What is color innovation to you? When you look at color innovation, what do the judges look like when they have to judge about what really is color innovation?

Marianne Shillingford: Well, color innovation could be using colored light. One of our winners last year called Phoebe Lewis, and she created a range of colored inks using seaweed. So it wasn't just creating inks from seaweed that was interesting to us. It was the fact that she was wanting to create not just new colors or colors, even colors like black. It was the idea that you grow this color, you create a whole ecosystem. People who have been relying on the sea for their income and can no longer fish coastal communities could start growing seaweed for ink. If you think about black ink or ink on anything, anything we have, it's got ink on it. It's petrochemical. So that's damaging the environment. If you could grow ink, if in that growing environment of growing it, you're helping revive a coastal community, but you're also creating a nursery bed for marine animals, for crabs and fish to grow their babies, that's innovative because it's not just about creating a sustainable ink to replace a petrochemical ink that we use all the time. It was doing the whole thing about the environmental impact that would have positive environmental impact and then a positive impact on the human beings were growing and harvesting it. That is spectacular. And it was beautiful. I can imagine. Just beautiful. I mean, the most exciting thing that will probably come out of it is a creation of sustainable black ink that we use all the time. So the colors were beautiful, but it was her approach. It was what she wanted to do, and she'd actually proved it. So she was this incredible woman who young woman who had the brain of a scientist because she was doing marine biology, but also this creative thought process because it because creativity that got her to think about the whole ecosystem of her color. There's another guy who's colored light to help this is beautiful. To help people who are lonely communicate with each other. So, you know, you can text your mates, you can text your friends, you can send them a video on YouTube. But what if you sent them a series of colored lights that was just created by you and use a little device by your bed, and then this little series of colored lights come from your friend. And it was just beautiful. It was such a beautiful thing. Yes. And using color for a child with something wrong with them at a prosthetic limb, or having to wear a device, using color to make that more engaging and fun and appealing, using color and materials together to bring up you add another dimension to something. Making something negative into something positive is that approach is innovative thinking where you're using color beyond decoration that actually positively affects the way that we respond to it and use it and want to use it, and that makes it successful.

Judith van Vliet: I always send this conversation to all my friends, obviously, but it's a funny anecdote, actually, that I'm surrounded by architects, designers and friends, and we have a very close girlfriend group, and we're all architects and designers, and maybe I'm the only one that really only does color. The rest is more interior design and workplace architects. And then one is a marine biologist, and I think sometimes she feels a bit lonely in the conversations. So I'm definitely going to send this one to her, and I think she's going to do it very much.

Marianne Shillingford: Yeah, I'll send you. Phoebe. Phoebe would love to talk to her.

Judith van Vliet: Yet I think also what you're doing, and I know this is not the reason why you're doing it, but working with young talents, working with the color design awards, it inspires you as well as in your profession, in your daily life. How do you translate that into your work and your daily job?

Marianne Shillingford: Well, working with young people, I mean, I've got three children that constantly challenge me and bring me new ideas of the world that I've lived in, and it keeps me thinking fresh. But meeting new designers, there's a symbiotic relationship. They will tell me something about the world, how they're living in the world, and how they're responding to it, what they find is really important, and I will use that in my work. When you're creating colors or products or you're working with groups, we work in a marketing department, and most people are not middle-aged, but they're not out there in the world, they're not struggling, they're not looking at the world and going, we've got to change this. They're thinking in a slightly different way. You go and work with young designers, and they will challenge you to the max, and they'll tell you what's important to them. And if you don't know what's important to the next generation, then you don't have a product for the next generation. You don't have any relevance for the next generation. And so we always strive to not just have something to say, everybody's got something to say. We all strive to be relevant and to be useful. There will be nothing worse than if whatever I was doing wasn't useful or interesting or engaging for the next generation. I mean, that would be dreadful. And I didn't want to stop learning and stop being challenged. And then there is something wonderful you will always learn and you will always be challenged by the next generation. And that's great, because that's their world. It's not my world. I messed it up for them. They need to help them sort out. Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Sometimes it makes me feel so guilty. But we all meet.

Marianne Shillingford: We're not old enough to feel guilty.

Judith van Vliet: Well, I'm getting there. But it is indeed funny that you said I always say a day that you haven't learned is a day that you haven't lived, really. And I think it's beautiful to work with younger students, with young designers, but just generally being open to so many other people also from other industries as well, to learn. That's something that I tried to do also through the podcast, because every day there's something that you can learn. What do young designers need to do to be part of the awards?

Marianne Shillingford: Well, at the moment, the two awards that are coming up, if you are in a university or college that is taking part in new designers, which is the huge design show at the islington design center, then if they're going, you can just contact me, find out a little bit about the awards, and then ask us to come and see you on your stand. So please, if anybody's listening to this and they're going to new Designers, they're a young designer, ask us to come and see this. If you want to share your work with us, send it to us at the website or send it to me info@coloranddesignaward.org. Just send us an email, contact me.  Just send me your work and we'll put it in front of the judges. So if you put colorindesignaward.org into the, you shall find it. But, yeah, I publish it as well.

Judith van Vliet: When a podcast comes out.

Marianne Shillingford: But, yeah, we want to see everything from ceramics. You're doing digital design, whether you're doing fashion or it doesn't matter what you're doing. I mean, Phoebe Lewis is doing stuff with seaweed. We want to see everything where you're using color in an innovative way that has a positive impact on the world and people that live in it, all of us.

Judith van Vliet: So the next ones I think you just mentioned are in June this year, right?

Marianne Shillingford: June and July. So new designers is coming up in June and July. So if there are people watching this who know people who are going to new designers, but there are also awards that will happen throughout the year. So we'll collect together, people's work. We're going to panel judges together in September, and we'll do judging for people who fall out of the new design of camp. But generally it's people who are recently graduated, but just starting out. If you're an established business that you're already there, you don't need our help. We'd love to see your work, but if you're just starting out, if people who are kind of like a little bit lost starting out will have a fantastic idea, that's what we want to see.

Judith van Vliet: What do you think we're going to be seeing then for the next awards? What would you think as novelty in.

Marianne Shillingford: Color use gosh, I don't know. What is blown away? I'm blown away by how people use light, engaging light, where the color is transient or the color changes according to your mood. People create new colors out of something that's unusual. Sustainable is always about whatever we do has to have an element of sustainability in it. And recycling, it is a new source of recycling or a new source that we haven't rethought of in nature. Nothing gets wasted. So new ways of creating color and maybe making those recycled materials into something more luxurious rather than every day and throw away. Honestly, we never know what we're going to that's exciting.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah.

Marianne Shillingford: I mean, we had an illustrator winning. She's an amazing illustrator, which you just don't know.

Judith van Vliet: Do you think the pandemic has helped? Not help, let's say, has it make creativity more of, let's say, a bigger topic? Do you think there's more emerging talent right now because of the pandemic? Because in the beginning, everybody said, because people are at home and they need.

Marianne Shillingford: It to get creative, because they were.

Judith van Vliet: Just going out of their minds. Is that something you're still seeing right.

Marianne Shillingford: Now in terms of students or young people? Yeah, the first lockdown was awful. I just think everybody was so lost. I mean, you couldn't get into your college or university workshops. You could not get to see a technician. So everything you have to do at home and I think there was this huge sense of apathy and just hopelessness was holding their breath. Now, that was the first year, because on that first year, for the color and designer, while we were locked down, it was okay, but we didn't see anything new or vibrant. Now, the second year, last year, it was unbelievable. It was almost as if people had thought, yeah, this is it. Unless we grab the world and make it our own and get resource for start getting angry, using the energy of being pent up and to do something extraordinary, change the world. And then suddenly we started to see last year was the most extraordinary year of creativity. And I expect the same this year because I think a younger generation now realizes that the world is in their hands and they're grabbing it with both hands and doing really radical things. Yeah. And I think it's going to be really exciting. First year, maybe for us as people who are trapped at home but had a job, we were painting and getting creative. For young people, it must have been awful. Can you imagine? You're thinking, oh, no, freshers week, no friends no, nothing. And so I think all of that creativity just went inside. But last year, second year came out. Yeah, really came out. I just think people thought, well, if this is it, let's make the most of it. I know was something that happened. I don't know what happened, but something definitely happened.

Judith van Vliet: What advice would you give to people are listening when they're starting out with design and color? What color advice would you give them?

Marianne Shillingford: I'd give them more color advice, but there's a bit of life advice. When we look at our lives ahead of us and we think we're always told, what do you want to be? Where do you want to go? And yet we don't really know, because my life has taken an amazing series of paths and I decided what to do when I got to that road and thought, yeah, I think this is what I want to do. So what I've always done is I've always wanted to feed my children and to put the roof on my head doing the thing I love. And if you do that and you have to have at least a goal, you have to somebody who's got a job similar to that, and what you have to do is shuffle towards it. So just move towards you every single day. Do something that gets you a little closer to where you want to be. You don't have to make big strides. It's not all about exams and learning or having loads of money or travel, it's about stepping one step. I've shuffled all of my life, I've always shuffled in the direction I want to go in. And don't let those big goals overwhelm you, because I think people think that things are unattainable and they're not. But you do have to be active. You do have to. You can't just wish me and my husband used to have this thing about we used to have a load of friends at college and me and my husband got together when we were very young and the thing that attracted us to each other we would both do is we'd go, Right, well, it's snowing, let's go and make a sledge. And we would go and make a sledge, that's what we would do. And then everybody else in the pub or the bar would be going, oh, yeah, it's snowing, let's get some sledges. And me and dad would be in the workshop making a sledge. And it was that sort of you've got to be active. So if we can say something, do it, just do it right.

Judith van Vliet: Don't sit still and wait for inspiration.

Marianne Shillingford: No, not that. It's like a job. It's like looking for a life partner, finding a new dog, finding something nice to eat for the weekend. It all involves an active. It doesn't come to you, it has to be active.

Judith van Vliet: You're not going to come knocking on your door?

Marianne Shillingford: No.

Judith van Vliet: What is next for you? Marianne.

Marianne Shillingford: You said it passed this legacy of doing something. I'd love to do a bit of telly. I want to do a bit of telly. I want to show people the power of color and the way it transforms things when these TV's making over shows. I think I'd love to take an element of this and kind of like show what color really does in this space, not just the stuff or how it's been. Just want to know, meet the family, but I want to do a bit of telly or something like that. That would be quite good fun. I don't know whether there's a wonderful program. It's a great British Bake Off and Mary Barry, who is in her 80s, suddenly became a star. So I'm thinking I'm only in my belt to be 60s, got 80 years left to become a star of color. That would be quite fun. I'd like it a bit of an adventure. And the Color and Design Awards, I hope to keep going with that. Yeah, I love my job, but I can see there's a little part of me that thinks I think somebody younger needs this because I think the world needs young heads and young minds. And if I can help that, that would be great.

Judith van Vliet: That's what you're doing with the awards, right?

Marianne Shillingford: Yeah. I want to reassure that life is tough. I know that. But also there are people out there. The design community and the creative community are the kindest, most generous hearted, wonderful spirits. I have never, ever had anything but kindness when I came to London. Just huge generosity and kindness. And all of the judges, I could say, they give their time for free. You wouldn't if you couldn't afford these guys. If they just say, yeah, that's a good idea. We'll get involved in this. And I am always blown away by you ask some advice from somebody who has reached the top of their tree and they cannot wait to help you. They fall over themselves to help you. And that's what I've always found. And I think there's something in unlocking that potential, putting young people together with people who've been there and done that. And just a little bit of advice, a nice word here, helps you on the path, stops you from worrying about stuff too much or understanding. And worrying is okay because we all do it.

Judith van Vliet: Well, I want to thank you for helping me on my journey with the Color Authority, my new business that I started a year ago and I started the podcast May a year ago and now we're on the 19 April. So it's been a journey. But I want to thank you for being part of Color Authority podcast and I loved talking to you. Thank you so much.

Marianne Shillingford: Great pleasure.

Judith van Vliet: So this was yet another exciting episode on the Caller Authority. Thank you everyone, for listening. If you're listening on Spotify, please rate the show. If you're listening on Apple podcast. Please read and review the show. Send us your feedback. We will be very thankful for that. Now, in the next episode, I'm going to be talking with Bruno Pitzales, a crypto art expert. We're going to be talking about color and crypto art, but, of course, we're also going to be talking about the Mid averse, and we're going to be debunking some myth here. So stay tuned for this episode coming out in two weeks, and I wish you a very colorful rest of your day. You.