Living your True Color with Mark Wentworth

Who was I born to be? That is the question we need to ask ourselves, less so, what is my life mission. Mark Wentworth will talk about how we all are born into a particular color and how that sets our natural path. An intriguing conversation about Mark his methodology called PsychoDynamics and how he brings people back to themselves as we all seem to have lost ourselves a little bit in this chaotic world. Why was the pandemic indigo and what is the color of 2023? 

Mark Wentworth has been studying and working with the healing power of colour for 35 years. He is the founder and principal of Colour for Life, and creator of the Colour Psychodynamics® methodology, both offering life-enhancing methods integrating colour therapy with the collective and visionary worlds of depth psychology and expressive arts. He is the author of Add a Little Colour to Your Life which has been translated into 8 languages. Mark lives in the UK as well as travelling around the world sharing and teaching his love of colour. 

As well as being a guest on numerous TV and Radio shows and interviewed by various magazines and newspapers throughout the world, Mark is also a brand ambassador for Valspar Paint UK, and a Visiting Practitioner for SixSenses Spas and Resorts. 

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Transcript

Judith van Vliet: Welcome back, everyone, to The Color Authority and this very last podcast of the season. This is going to be a very deep conversation, so go grab a cup of coffee, a tea, whatever you're having, and sit down for this. As I said, very spiritual conversation as well. Together with Mark Wentworth. Now, Mark has been studying and working with the healing power of color for 35 years. He's the founder and principal of Color for Life and creator of the Color Psychodynamics Methodology, both offering life enhancing methods integrating color therapy with the collective and visionary world of the depth psychology and expressive arts. He is the author of Add a Little Color to Your Life, which has been translated into eight languages. Mark lives in the UK as well as he travels the world sharing and teaching his love for color. Good morning, Mark. And we're going. There we go. That never happened. Okay. That's why it's good that it's not live.

Mark Wentworth: Yeah, exactly.

Judith van Vliet: You start laughing in the conversation. Good morning, Mark. And welcome to the Color Authority. How are you this morning?

Mark Wentworth: Good morning. I'm very well, thank you. And I'm so pleased to be here to talk to you. And it's always good to talk to someone else who loves color.

Judith van Vliet: Definitely. When I do my interviews, those are the highlights. Like talking to color, passionate color, professional color experts. We are speaking the same language. So it's like connecting with your other self almost, right?

Mark Wentworth: Yes. It's like we can kind of wax lyrical about reds, greens, purples, where we can get lost in those worlds.

Judith van Vliet: Yes. Well, getting lost in color is a good thing, but not always. Also talking at least about previous conversations that I had, I normally, however, start the podcast with one question, and that's the same for each and every one, and that is what is color? So what is your answer to that, Mark? What is color for you?

Mark Wentworth: Well, it would be a bit of a cliche if I said, well, color is life, considering it's kind of but to me it is because and I say color is life because it gives you life and it's with you for life. So you can work with, play with that as much as you want, but it's color for me, it's a language. I describe color as a sign language of the soul because I work in a very specific way with color.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. And that's something that obviously diving right into, obviously what you're doing. You're going to be the best person to explain what it is that you do. But what really captured me in our very first talk is something that you said to me. You said, Why ask yourself what your life mission is and not who I was born to be.

Mark Wentworth: Nowadays, people are very much searching for a deeper meaning of life. Certainly after the pandemic, people are starting to question. And one of the questions and seems to be very popular as people say, what is my purpose? What am I supposed to be doing? Yes, I understand the meaning of what they're talking about, but I think we've lost, in a way, the original meaning, because it's about what is my purpose here in the world? Where it's got lost is now it's like saying, what am I supposed to be doing? Because, you know, when we meet people, we say, oh, hello. What do you do? Which is a terribly awfully polite way of saying, so how do you make your money? And when people say, what is my purpose? What am I? You know, kind of I was born to do what? We've lost that sense because what they're asking is, how am I going to earn my living? How am I going to make my money? And, you know, if we see a lot of it on social media, if you want to change your life, live what you're supposed to do. And it's always on beautiful beaches and kind of working remotely and fantastic salary. But what about my question? There was always, but what about if that's not what about if that's not your purpose? And so where it became slightly different and doing is taking an action. If I'm doing something, it's like I'm taking action. Whereas who was I born to be? Is quite different because it's much more natural and organic from your origin. Yes, because it comes from the inside. And if you think about it, I don't know whether it's the same across the world, but with children, if you have children up until about the age of nine or ten, we use the term who do you want to be when you grow up? But when it gets to around ten or eleven, it suddenly changes from what are you going to do? So we lose. And I think it's a really interesting question to ask, who was I born to be? Because then it's bringing out your, let's say your natural way of being, your natural personality, your natural characteristics. And then based on that means you can do anything you want to do, but you'll always do it from your way of being.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, it totally makes sense. I do think a lot of people would still come to you and say, but how do I do that? But we are going to get into this.

Mark Wentworth: Yes.

Judith van Vliet: You are also a true believer that color increases. Let's say it helps us, it truly supports us in our wellbeing, our health. How do you believe that color affects us, especially after what you have just explained? How can color connect to who you truly are? And how can that increase your intuition, your origin to be?

Mark Wentworth: Yeah, so first of all, this is a personal perspective. I think unless you work with color, whether you're an artist, designer or anything, where you're using color, most of the time, everyone is pretty color blind. Not physiologically, but literally they go around with these kind of blinkers on. And the only time maybe the majority of people think about color is either what am I going to wear or what color am I going to paint, decorate my house with? Or what color car would I really love to have?

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, people will when I say that I do color, they're like profession.

Mark Wentworth: Exactly. Same thing when I first started doing and I said, oh, I work with color therapy, people used to say, oh, do tell me what color clothes to wear. Anyway, I think from that perspective and also we don't actually have for most people a relationship with color. It's totally one sided. I'm going to do this with color. I'm going to wear this with color. People say, I don't like this color. I don't like that color. I'm not going I'm painted on my walls, but I wouldn't wear it. Yeah, absolutely fine. But if we think of what a relationship is, a relationship is about mutual. So therefore, I think it's from my perspective, we don't have most people don't have a relationship with color. And so when people say someone might say, oh, I really hate I would never wear or use anything orange at all. For example, sometimes I'll say what? Have you ever considered that orange might feel exactly the same way about you, too? It could be a feeling of dislike on both sides. So a lot of what I'm let's say my area that I work with is about building a relationship with color, but treating it as a living being, as a living energy. Because if you think that if we look at what color actually is, it's that little bit of the electromagnetic frequency. It's part of that visible spectrum. And if we think that most things are if we accept that whole quantum theory that everything is basically frequency and vibration, and it's the density and the shape which makes it and look a certain way, and we accept that. So therefore, it's a living thing. Therefore, to me, color is a living thing, and it's about developing and so when we develop our relationship with color, and for me, it's very much an internal relationship, we can then use it or use build upon that relationship to actually enhance our inner resiliences, our strengths, and how we then deal with and relate to everything else in our world, in our outer world. But for me, my work with color starts from the inside first, inside out.

Judith van Vliet: before actually it becomes something that truly helps you in the daily life where you want to be or wherever you think your mission in life should be happy.

Mark Wentworth: Yes, I talk about them as my color allies. And so very often when I think about color, I'll tell you how that all came about. Sometimes I'm kind of thinking, okay, if I know I'm dealing with a difficult situation, I'll say, okay, who's coming with me? Today. So to me, they're like each of the colors are like friends to me. They know my story, they know the ins and outs and the depths of my being. They know all the dark secrets of the things that I'd rather not anyone else know, like we all have. And yet they're still present. And equally they're always saying, come on, you don't think you can do this, but come, come, step forward a little bit, I'm going to encourage you. I'm going to keep showing up in your life just to remind you you're going in the right direction.

Judith van Vliet: I love that because in the end, yes, it is a relationship, it is an energy. Also by using, you have a different vibe. I mean, I know that still, if we come back to fashion or whatever nail polish I put on or I'm going to be wearing, I have a different energy to myself because it's reflecting who I am, let's say, how I'm putting myself out there. And that's also how you help people, not necessarily, obviously how to dress, but you help bring people color into their lives through interestingly dreams, drama and stories. So can you a little bit explain? Because we were diving right into the subject, we do not know what it is. I think they're figuring out absolutely what you're doing. But you have a method or let's say a process developed, it's called color psychodynamics. What is it about?

Mark Wentworth: Color psychodynamics is something that has I've evolved over around about 35 years. And probably like yourself, I've studied many different things as well. But always color has always been at the main focus. Over the years with color psychodynamics, it's been a weaving together of all the things I've learned and experienced both with color and many other different approaches as well. But my main focus, say, for example, I was for 20 odd years I've studied, worked with and looked at the work and life of Carl Jung equally for the same amount of time. I've got to know and studied and worked with something called psycho drama, which is about bringing yours to life. Now, all of that is woven together, but the main focus is how does this help me understand color in order to help people get to know and have a build a different relationship with color and the psyche drama bit? Well, first of all, about the stories. If you think about it, we're all constantly telling stories. There's story wheels on social media. There are stories. We talk about stories in filming, advertising, we talk about color stories. We have stories about how different members of the family met, how our parents met. We are what I call storytelling beings. How before the Internet, social media, way back when, we used to sit around the fires, knowledge and information was passed on through storytelling. In ancient cultures, there was myths. But nowadays, again, I think we've lost that term because when you say oh, this is a myth. People say, yeah, but it's not truth, and it's not about whether it is true, whether actually happened or not. It's the message within the story. And so from that perspective and every color has a story to tell, a different one for you and a different one for me. People unknown for a fact that, let's say if you're driving along in your car and you've got the radio on, a certain song comes on, immediately you're transported back to a pastime. And I would say the majority of people will say it's usually got a love connection. Very few people will say, oh, I remember it was my first day at school, kind of. And then, of course, there's smell. We walk into it. Maybe we walk into a store somewhere, or we walk and we say, oh, this maybe reminds me of, let's say, going to my grandmother's house, because this is a color, to me, does exactly the same thing, but it's much more subtle about it. We don't think it's only when we pay attention and say, oh, yes, this color reminds me of this color. And so from that basis, dreams are stories. And very often when I'm working with dreams, I'm always asking people to pay attention to the color of their dreams.

Judith van Vliet: No thinking, obviously, of the colors of my dreams I remember unless there were dreams in full.

Mark Wentworth: But again, you've got that aspect. So again, they're kind of aspects to me. Sometimes we're so busy in life that the soul can't say, hey, pay attention. So sometimes it comes through. The only way it gets our attention is in a dream. So if we take dreams, drama. And the thing about drama is, I remember before I knew the terminology psych drama and I knew what psyche drama was, I remember having pieces of plasticine, you know, kind of pieces of modelling or pieces of plasticine of diff, two different colors. And I remember laying on the floor with them and actually saying, this is red. And I'd moulded it into a shape, into a look a certain way, and I had green. And they were having conversations like we do as children, except I was an adult, but having these conversations with colors. But in the process, when I looked what these two colors had to say, it gave me deep insight into a situation that I was dealing with at the time.

Judith van Vliet: That's interesting. And I think that's how color can be healing. What's your perspective on that? Is color healing?

Mark Wentworth: Absolutely. And healing healing to me, is when we think of healing very often, most of the time, we think of when there's something that when we're unwell or broken. Or broken. Whereas healing, to me, can also be where we've forgotten who we are. So for me, like I was saying, to me, sometimes it's an ally. It's that reminder of say, hey, come here, come down this path. So, yeah, it can be healing. There's so many kind of color healing aspect. It goes back thousands of years. There's so many of things in ancient Greece, in Egypt and in other parts of the world where color was part of a major aspect healing modalities.

Judith van Vliet: And it's maybe time that we go back to that, right? That we go back to maybe our origin instead of indeed the external pressure of who we are, how we're supposed to be. And I think, well, we are in the era of Aquarius, so things obviously are changing there too. Yesterday I found out as a human design, I am a manifesto. So that's also something that obviously is very interesting to just get to know a little bit of how you were put on this Earth that means for you. And we look into color. A few weeks ago, you did a reading. So you will explain a little bit about what you've read. But also how did you read me? So you asked me for my full name, which is always embarrassing in my case because I have many which most people are not aware of the date of birth and also the color that I've been working with, thanks to the color therapy that I did with Damas on the WAYF, which is yellow. You look into what this entail for me and for my person who I was born to be, a little bit explained to the audience what you exactly did, looking at my name, my name is and what the results was.

Mark Wentworth: So I need to tell you a story. If we go way back in time to, let's say kind of to ancient Greece when you were born, they would watch your kind of behavior. Again, we come back to that natural way of being. And so when we're children, we are not yet socialized. So we act very spontaneously and so we very often see our natural talents. I think it was Plato who said you can learn more about a person by watching them play for an hour. Then you can by talking to them for a year. Because when we play, we start to bring out. So when people say, what is my purpose? What is my purpose for being? And they go, oh, I'm a little bit lost. I always suggest go back to childhood. What did you naturally do in childhood? What games did you play? What role did you play within groups? Or maybe you were a loner. All of those are clues because there are natural behaviors. So ancient Greece, they would watch your natural behaviors and then you would be deemed either, let's say for a female, you'd be a daughter of one of the goddesses. And if you were a male, you'd be a son of one of the gods. And based on that, you would then kind of be guided in a certain way to develop those natural talents then. Because to me, I don't know whether you agree with this, but as we are at the moment in the industrialized world, we've lost our myth. We don't have myths in ancient cultures. They had the gods, the goddesses to guide them. We don't seem to have a guiding myth. We're a little bit at sea. We're a little bit lost, if you like. Anyway, so then, of course, you have things like astrology. Again, if you look at astrology, they take your date of birth, your time of birth and your place of birth, and then they create an astrological map. It's like taking a snapshot of the heavens. And based on that, yes, they can say, okay, you are kind of, let's say, Leo, and you can say, okay, but of course you're not like all other Leo. There's something unique about and that's what the astrology map does. That's what makes it personal. So I would say there's many roads that all lead to Rome. It's just that we have to find that one that works for us. So all of that then there's the basics of what I call of color psychodynamics. It's where we take your date of birth and date of birth. Here we use the medium of numbers. So we use, again, Pythagoras. And whilst he was known for his mathematical formula, sometimes people don't realize that actually one of his main purposes of his work and studies was to actually discover what happens to the soul after death. So while we can put him here for the what we know is the mathematical formula, if we study his full life, then we see something else as well. So he believed that numbers could explain the whole universe and the mysteries of the universe. And so, like, one sounds very different to two, two sounds very different to three. And if you measure those on a sound machine, you will see these different frequencies, which color obviously, is a frequency. So if we then take the date of birth, which is a series of numbers, and we use the Pythagorean formula to end up with a number between one and nine, each of those numbers then becomes a color. It is that. So, like, your number was three, your color is yellow. Of course, people will say, well, there's no I've searched and searched for years and years. There's no one specific person origin which suddenly turned numbers to colors. There are many different inputs because sound and color, you can't always separate because it's frequency. So we can see that. And number one, like I said, number one is very different to number two. So the frequency of one will be different to the frequency of four. And if we just basically turn that into color so it's a visible language, we can then see then if we look to see that when we say three is yellow, then we have the origins of things like in the panaceads of the chakras. Most people nowadays know about chakras, so we can say, okay, so yellow relates to solar plexus. So we have a place to begin with. So that's what I call that's your foundation. And then when I was asking about date of birth, basically it's the same thing. That's what makes it personal. We translate that again all into color. Each letter relates to a number which in turn relates to a color. And you then have what I call it's almost like your color DNA. In essence, that's like the seed if you like, that you were born with. And sometimes people will say, yeah, but I didn't choose my name. It was for my parents. But for many different other belief systems, there's this sole contract that says, yes, this is going to be my fate. My fate is something we can't change. So you can't change your date of birth, even though some people would love to. You can't change your date of birth, where you were born, the area you were born into or the place you were born. So let's say that's setting the boundaries of let's say it's almost like setting the container. And part of that is your name. It says this is the unique frequency that you are going to show up in the universe. As unique as a fingerprint. This is your unique name. And then of course people would say, let's say you have something like John Smith. You could have two John Smith born on the same day, same name. But it's then the fate that they were born into that makes them experience those colors different. They have different family experience, different life experience, different places they were born. All of that starts to shape those colors. So they're not are them fast. So it becomes it's a symbolism. I would say I work much more with the symbolic language of Carlos.

Judith van Vliet: Let's call it I'm a yellow person. What does that mean? I'm not going to say the word mission anymore because obviously I've understood that that's not what it is. Who was I born to be?

Mark Wentworth: Okay, think of it like this. A rose doesn't try to do a rose. A rose just is a rose. So when I say this is your color DNA is, I say, okay, it's permission to be self. Why try to be something else? Let's say so your color is yellow. And my question would be why try to be blue if you're born to be yellow? Because if you try to be blue, you will always believe there's something wrong with you because you will never feel quite enough. So it's about saying, okay, this is your DNA, be this.

Judith van Vliet: It's more about acknowledging the fact that I'm a warrior again next to the sort of plexus and following my gut intuition and those things. And that important to me. That is something that maybe I've always known or at least I'm getting in touch with through live experiences, of course. But that is what you are technically, you're getting people back on the path that they're supposed to be on.

Mark Wentworth: Yes. So as you said, where the union aspect comes in is once I talk about the symbolic language of color, archetypes are fantastic because they're symbol, they're universal patterns of behavior. They shape and they tell us, they explain. Like I was saying earlier, in ancient cultures, they had gods and goddesses which are different forms of archetypes. And so hence so by combining and treating color as an archetype and actually having archetypes connected with that, it enables me to help, to explain to people human behavior. So I can say to you, okay, so your color is yellow. Your ruling archetype is the warrior. So that's to knowing that's how to approach life. The warrior has this determination. It's very focused. It always has a goal. And I think I said to you, one of the things about yellow and a warrior is they're always on a quest. They're always asking that question is why? I think at the end of life, it will still be the question, why? Why not? Why this day? Why not? Why? That's a question. So that's a natural way of being. Now, if imagine you grow up in an environment where that curiosity is made to be something negative, it turns inwards and then the warrior basically gets bored and kind of then turns into the most amazing super critic you've ever met. It's got nothing else to do. So it says, well, I'll make you my project, instead, I'll make you my quest. So it will constantly drive you kind of like, this is not good enough. Maybe you could improve on this. So each archetype has in psyche drama terminology, we say there's many different parts of us that have what is known as they have an act hunger and a hunger to perform and hunger to act out. And if they don't get that opportunity, they then become more let's say negative is the wrong word, but they turn and their energy becomes different. They become, let's say the archetype becomes either turns into a critic or it loses its power and it becomes a servant to someone else's warrior. To give up on our hopes and dreams for the sake of someone else or something else.

Judith van Vliet: Exactly, yes. Impossible in those moments. But it is interesting because then you sent me my color DNA with yellow. But then inside there is multiple colors and you gave me information to work with which I was born, to connect through happiness, hope and joy. And then to meditate with this color. Is that the only way to get back to that origin? Or is there also by surrounding yourself with yellow, eating yellow foods, I don't know, dressing more in yellow? Or is it literally more an inner journey?

Mark Wentworth: It's all of the above. So I've made suggestions like the affirmation that was based on looking only at your yellow, but your color DNA as a whole to make it personal to you. And it's such let's say I was born to happiness, joy and equally wisdom. And so it's kind of giving you rather than be a very narrow kind of very narrow focus, it's saying, okay, whatever I do, how do I bring this into whatever I choose to do? So then it's saying, you can do whatever you want to do, but I have these core values and I can measure everything. So if you're invited to do something, does this live up to my does this fulfil these core inner values? Kind of, you know, one thing about being yellow is the question is how do I shine my light into the world? And sometimes people find that light too bright, so they're going to make you question it. And sometimes we can dim down the light. So it's always about learning how to manage that. So, yes, you could wear it if yellow suits you, if you feel comfortable in yellow. But also it's about how can you be it? This is where this is you embodying your color profile. So it's like, well, I've told you all these qualities. What does that look like? So maybe you guys say, well, actually, when I think of these qualities, I think of this particular style of dress or this particular type of fashion. So you're still embodying the energy, but not necessarily wearing the color color.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. So it's about letting your light shine through, whatever is, whether it's a smile and accessory, you move where you talk.

Mark Wentworth: Yeah. And if you then use that when you go, let's say if you write, you can then say, how do I incorporate this aspect of happiness, joy and wisdom into whatever I write? How do I share that? And then basically it's no, because sometimes nowadays with social media, you can meet people. Maybe you follow a person on social media and then you meet them in person and it's like, oh, and there's a bit of a because they don't quite match. Whereas if your whole presentation because then it gives you a container to work with. It's also just to say it also works the same because everything is energy, frequency and vibration. It also works the same with businesses as well. So you can choose the day you start and look at the name. Then you have a whole profile, a whole DNA. Then you know how to write your copy, you know how to use what to incorporate into design, how to it's a starting point. Like DNA, it's a building block.

Judith van Vliet: This is so interesting. Yes. I think this is a world opening up that I think for a lot of people that's also why obviously we were doing this interview that is I think it's important for people to know more about and that forcing who you're not is how you are obviously getting that door slammed right up in your face constantly over and over again. And I think also so talking about DNA a year also has a DNA, you explained to me. Yes, it was very interestingly. It's not just about the people, but also years are symbolized. So 2020, the year of the pandemic, it disrupted lives. We initially thought it was only going to be China and Italy and boom, it was everywhere. You said green. What can you tell about us?

Mark Wentworth: Again, what I'm doing is taking the number of the year. So 2022 plus two is four, which comes out as green. Now, if you take it from the energy system, the chakras, it relates to the heart chakra, which also happens the lungs. So you might kind of think, okay, there's a little bit of and of course, connection. And of course what we're doing is I'm viewing it from more of a collective viewpoint to help understand, make sense of and to put it into a collective perspective. Not so much in, let's say, the suffering in the kind of like the everyday. So we're looking at it much former from a slightly more detached perspective, because in depth psychology, you can view everything as archetypal. And archetypes, just to clarify, archetypes, the best way I describe them is like these huge oil tankers and it takes a long time to move them in a certain direction. They're like the deep currents under the ocean. There's the surface ones, but there's these deep currents. And if you look at everything from anarchy typical perspective, you get to see how society, how the world works. From this very global perspective, it's like when you're on an airplane and you're looking down below and you can see all these kind of clouds and beautiful things, it always looks so calm and peaceful, and yet, you know, outside, outside of that, the safety of the airplane, it's absolutely turbulent. There's winds and there's that's a similar if you think of archetypes like that. So if you look at that from that perspective, so green governs the lungs. If we also look at we talk about the forests of the world as the lungs of the earth, what we're actually doing to the forestry and taking away, we might understand that, yes, we're becoming more, let's say, prone to something that affects our breathing, affects the lungs and equally affects the heart. Also green is about structure. It actually in its darker shades, it stops everything. It becomes stagnant. Think of stagnant pond water. Nothing is flowing.

Judith van Vliet: Incredible.

Mark Wentworth: So from that perspective, you could say, okay, I can see and it also green, as we know, connects us to Mother Nature. So from that perspective is like saying, no, we're just going to stop. Interesting that. So that was 20 2021. We went into blue, which is we move through. So that was kind of the blue. And again, we were still in there, but people were starting to obviously it is about communication, but it's also about trust and honesty. And if we look at the things that were coming to the light around the world about truths were being revealed. It's known as one of the most healing colors. And then, interestingly, during that time this was happening, we were having to wear masks. And one of the aspects of blue is not only about speaking, but it's also about listening. And maybe if we looked at it symbolically, we might say the wearing of the mask could be symbolically. Saying is, stop talking and listen. Think about it. We talk about true listening, but most people, when they listen, they listen in order to reply.

Judith van Vliet: That's how I always forget the name of the person I'm introduced.

Mark Wentworth: And then we come to, you know, like, we were talking when we were having that conversation the other week, we say everyone was saying, yay, this year, this is it.

Judith van Vliet: We're going to be like I was like, what? No.

Mark Wentworth: And then I think for most people, they would say, what the hell had just happened? When is this year going to be over? Let alone for the past two years?

Judith van Vliet: Indigo in transition. Is that the indigo, the blue? Is that the transition?

Mark Wentworth: Is it the indigo is firstly, no one ever knows what color it is. Is it blue? Is it purple? And during the time of the pandemic, when I was doing speaking to people around the world, I was saying to them, if you had a color for the pandemic, what color would it be? And it was literally like, all of a sudden, everyone knew what indigo was, because everyone said if I had to give it a color, it would be indigo. And it's suddenly this. I'm saying, well, is there a color which you would give to the coming out of it? Not one definitive color. Indigo was there. And I wrote something about called indigo the color of a pandemic, because if you think about everything that happened, it paused, and it just says, stop. More people decide, we're looking at I'm doing this job. Is this really what I want to do? If they were lucky to. Because obviously that's not the case for everyone. People sometimes we know we need to do it because we need to survive. So I would say that's not for the same for everyone. Indigo is the color of deep transformation. One of the archetypes related to indigo is death. And death is a deep transformation. It's the color of deep transformation. I mean, hey, you only have to look at what's happened in the past three weeks in the UK to understand where that has come to play. Of course, death happens all the time, but I think it's been closer to people than maybe it has before in different ways. And remember, death is not only about, let's say, the death of a person. It could be the ending of a career, ending of a relationship, ending of so it really is. I describe indigo as the group year. You know how whether it's a caterpillar sorry, a caterpillar, it goes into a pupus and it goes into the chrysalis, and then during that process, part of that is it breaks down into this group. It becomes literally nothing. It's no shape to it. It's just this group. And then gradually it starts to take a shape in a form and forms in type of butterfly, a moth, anything like that. And then it emerges. Say, you know, that to me, that's what an indicator this is really, that sense of, okay, let's get ready. I know you're going to ask me, what about 2023?

Judith van Vliet: Now, like, okay, tell us that 2023 is going to be the color that we can all work with.

Mark Wentworth: So interestingly. So the color, if we follow the rainbow, obviously, 23 is going to be is violent, which is really interesting because if you look at I've been looking at the forecast, trend forecasts, and both in fashion furniture across the board in design, and there's a real thing in paints. You see, there's violet, there's lilacs, there's lavenders, there's kind of these pay all that starting to emerge, which is so interesting. When you see that happening, it's like, oh, we're in sync. And so it is that if I had a keyword for this year, this indigo year, it would be surrender. Because you probably heard that phrase people often use, which says, when we make plans, God laughs. Well, I think this year he's been rolling around the floor hysterically, because when people say, oh, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this, and I'm going to do this, and I say, well, let's just have that conversation afterwards, shall we? And I say, just be prepared that things could change. So it's probably been a very challenging year for people who like to know what they're doing, like, to be in control of things, because it's like, just be a little bit prepared. So going into what if there was a key word for if there was a word to describe this coming year, 2023, it would be emergence. In that emergence. And already you can see in the September, I start to feel what I call to me, I describe the slight breeze of the new color coming. It's a bit like kind of I can feel the air changing.

Judith van Vliet: September, right? I feel opportunities, like learning to happen. Things are opening.

Mark Wentworth: Yeah, I start to every year, I always around this time, I start to feel the slight hint of the breeze of the new color, as I'm always starting to know, because it's when we start to see the interest. So, like, if we look at what's happened here in the UK, obviously not well here in the UK, but across the world, the Queen. Because as someone was saying the other day, when we say the Queen, we know we're not just talking about the Queen of England or the united Kingdom, but people know who the Queen is. You just say, oh, the Queen, and people knew exactly who you were talking about, say, interestingly. So we have this deep obviously, we have this deep transformation through this death and transformation, and now we have the new emerging. And what's interesting about from the point of view of the colors, the Queen was actually violet. Her life path color was violet, and the archetype ruling violet is the Queen. So if ever there is a person who lived up to who she was born to be, she is a very good example.

Judith van Vliet: Well, that's why they believe in a monarchy in the UK, right? You are born into Phoenix royalty. Generally, it's still very much connected to the color of purple.

Mark Wentworth: Yes, but what's interesting is Princess Diana, she, too, was violet. And interestingly, Helen Mirren, who played the Queen, is also violent. When you start kind of looking at all the various different people, then you watch, because obviously with people in the public eye, if you watch their behaviors and you know their color, you go, yes, now I can see it now. And that's why I use people in the public to give examples and say, look, one of the things about the Queen archetype is dedication to service. And I didn't know, but I was watching the obviously, you see a lot of films and interviews of when she made the thing kind of when she was 25. I dedicate my life to of service. What color might you so what color am I?

Judith van Vliet: Gold, of course.

Mark Wentworth: Let me just clarify that. Firstly, let me dispel this myth, because sometimes people think there's a hierarchy of color. I can't tell you how many times I've been given talks, workshops, and I see after we've done the calculations, people are kind of counting up, and I'm saying, do you need any help doing the calculations? And I remember one lady said, no, I'm just counting how many lifetimes she believed in reincarnation how many lifetimes I've got to go until I'm violet, rose, or gold. Because people have this idea that there's this let's say the higher up the spectrum from the point of frequency of vibration, the more evolved you are, which is not true at all. It's just a different experience. I often joke with my students, there is no hierarchy of color apart from gold. Seriously, seriously. Think of it like this. If you had in the central room, you had Universal Truth, and you had to imagine looking at it from a clock perspective. You got people at 01:00, 02:00, 03:00, et cetera, et cetera. But in the center was universal truth. Everyone's looking at the same thing, but just from different perspective. And that's what it is. No hierarchy of color. It's just how we perceive the same thing. Like when you're working with working with whether it's teams, families, classrooms, whatever, it's helping understand that actually we're just viewing things from it and reacting or responding from different perspectives based on the essence of who we are. So Gold has this need to pass on knowledge and information. And sometimes it's exhausting because it's that sense of whatever happens, it's always that sense of how can I pass this on to people? How can I share this with people?

Judith van Vliet: So this is part of who you are as we would be. You're sharing that knowledge and passing on knowledge in the end, support.

Mark Wentworth: And it's that sense of studying all these different things and bringing it all together. It's like, how can I make it help people to understand color from a different perspective rather than just this is what you put on the walls, this is what you wear. Let's go into it, let's deepen those relationships to build a relationship with color.

Judith van Vliet: I think the biggest takeaway for me for this conversation, I'm sure there's going to be a lot of takeaways from people that are listening is that indeed it's not just indeed about incorporating that color into your life just by applying it on your walls or in your clothes. But it is that in my case, obviously, the shining, it is the bringing it out. And I think that still it's intuition. It is just really feeling who you are and following those steps and that direction.

Mark Wentworth: Yeah, it really is. It's that permission to be. I think so. Over the years, I think the biggest thing and the most common thing that people have said is like, well, what you're telling me? I've known this, but maybe I forgot about it or I learned that it wasn't okay, but it's that permission to be myself. And to me, that's the greatest gift that's worth the hours of kind of stone over there everything to me, that's the greatest gift. When you're sitting with someone or and you see the light come on, and.

Judith van Vliet: That is a gift that you gave back to me.

Mark Wentworth: I can say thank you always that sense of that's why I always say it is a way of living and being. What I'm helping you, what I'm guiding people to say is this is a way of living and being. Yes, like you were saying, I can wear the color, but how do I live it? How do I be it? It's that sense of always think back. A rose. Never does a rose. It just is a rose. Equally, I use rose, but you could use any other plant or tree. And equally, if you're amongst many other roses, don't start comparing and say, oh, my flowers, my buds are much brighter than yours. They got a different, like nope, totally unique. So you are unique amongst yellows. No one else can be like you. You can have similarities, but it's your unique way of expressing it that makes it important. And also, if you think about it, the idea of it is like, well, why? It's because I believe that we've been born at this particular time in this particular way. Because on a deep soul level, who we are helps humankind evolve whatever we do. We're never born without reason for being no one. There's never, ever a spare part.

Judith van Vliet: This is just how I think this ends, this conversation, because that is exactly how I feel when I talk to you. And I think that is the best message to get out there today. Thank you so much.

Mark Wentworth: You're very, very welcome, and thank you.