Enhancing Color by Light with Rodrigo Fernandez

As many of you know, there is no color without light and this is why I interviewed Rodrigo Fernandez on how we can make color look sexy in a space, on a product and on any imaginable surface. We will also discuss the highlights of Milan Design Week's Euroluce and what color and light innovation was presented. Listen into our conversation to learn more about the deep relationship between color and lighting. 

Industrial Designer by ITESM Campus Ciudad de México, Rodrigo Fernandez Barajas has more than 15 years of experience offering lighting advice and consultancy to luxury hotels in Mexico and Central America. He is also a professor at CENTRO de Diseño, Cine y Televisión, as well as co-founder and director of Diez Company, a benchmark project in avant-garde lighting design. A promoter of a lighting culture, Rodrigo Fernández is the creator of The Light Report, an integral communication concept focused on the exciting world of light. He is also the author of Maison Diez Company, the largest lighting exhibition held in Mexico since 2018. He is also a speaker and promoter of a better lighting culture and a consultant in high-end lighting manufacturing.

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Transcript

[00:06] Judith van Vliet: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Color Authority podcast. This is Judith family podcasting out of Milan, Italy. And today's, a special podcast because I'm.

[00:15] Judith van Vliet: Going to be interviewing my dear friend.

[00:17] Judith van Vliet: Rodrigo Fernandez, who's an industrial designer out of Mexico City. He has more than 15 years of experience offering lighting advice and consultancy to luxury hotels in Mexico and Central America. He's professor at Centro, the School for design, cinema, and Television in Mexico City, and he's also co founder and director of Diez Company, a benchmark project in avantgarde lighting industry. He's a promoter of a lighting culture. Rodrigo is the creator, indeed, of The Light Report, an integral communication concept focused on the exciting world of lighting. He is also the author of Maison Diez Company, the largest lighting exhibition held in Mexico since 2018. He is speaker and promoter of the better lighting culture and a consultant in high end lighting manufacturing. Let's see what he has to tell us about color and light.

[01:15] Judith van Vliet: Afternoon, Rodrigo, and welcome to the Color Authority. I'm so happy to have you here. How are you today?

[01:21] Rodrigo Fernandez: I'm very good, Judith. Thank you. I'm very excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

[01:26] Judith van Vliet: I wish I was in Mexico City. You're calling in from your office, right?

[01:30] Rodrigo Fernandez: Yes, I'm in my office now. I've been traveling, but now I'm here.

[01:34] Judith van Vliet: You're a world traveler. I mean, we could even do just a podcast on where you've been in the last couple of weeks or months and just talk about the colors you've seen. I mean, it's crazy, your schedule. I don't know how you do it.

[01:46] Rodrigo Fernandez: I know. I mean, it's tough, but I like it, and it's also very inspiring, so I'm very excited to talk to you about that as well.

[01:54] Judith van Vliet: Yeah. So I ask everybody that same question, the first question, and then you probably have heard that in the meantime. But what is color? So in your personal perspective, what is color to you?

[02:06] Rodrigo Fernandez: Well, I think especially in my field, color is basically our perception of light. I think it has to do with well, I'm in the lighting industry, first of all. So it's our perception of light. Without light, we wouldn't be able to see any of the colors or textures in an object. So color, for me, represents also the capacity that light has to actually enhance a product. I think a product that is well lit is actually true to its color, and that's very important because we want to see the real nature of the object or the sexiest side of it, and that's how I see it, and that's what light and color represent in a way.

[02:50] Judith van Vliet: So color is sexy. That's a good one. I have not heard that one before. So, as you say, you work in lighting, but you started off as an industrial designer. So not saying it's completely different, but let's say that you had a quite particular focus point, which is I'm going to enter in lighting. Where did that passion come from for this, let's say rather particular area of design?

[03:13] Rodrigo Fernandez: Yeah, it was actually by accident. I met my business partner almost 18 years ago and I was just out of university. I was teaching at Centro doing like a very few hours a week and I met my business partner Gina through a friend and she wanted to do or to establish a lighting company. And this is how it started. It was very random. I don't think if we had thought more deeply into it, we would have decided to enter into this category because of the many implications that it has, not just technical, but also on the regulatory side between certifications and everything that's around it, which has been a difficult journey to understand, especially when you're not a specialist. How do you approach this category with professionalism? And entering into this market was very challenging and it was sort of an accident. But it has been a super interesting journey and these 17 years have been also very insightful in meeting with new people and really understanding. I blame myself, or I call myself like a self taught in this field because I really studied, as you said, industrial design. I studied in Mexico and also in Torino in Italy one year. But once you understand that this object or that this particular field is very specific, you enter into a completely new world. Even if it's part of the industrial design area or field, it has its many aspects that you need to understand. And I think I've been throughout the years being able to learn more and understand how it works and how to work with light and especially learning from really interesting people that I met through.

[05:10] Judith van Vliet: The way yeah, I think that's how we are very alike. I think actually I'm now calculating back when I actually started in color and I think it was in 2007. It is interesting that we are both students of life and students of our own careers because as most of the listeners know, I studied political science to do with color. But then I entered in color and color marketing group and that's how everything took off. But I think that's very part of who I am as a person. But I guess that's also who you are as a person. You learn on the job and it's a daily experience. Every day you learn something new.

[05:46] Rodrigo Fernandez: Exactly. And I think that's the best university that you can have. Again, you learn some skills when you study, but you really understand and you really learn what your passion is going to be while you are working and when you are faced with challenges and with problems and with daily life. For me, it has become a life.

[06:08] Judith van Vliet: Experience, a life project almost, I mean, 17 years. And now having this company, if that's been 17 years, that is a large part of your life. And I guess it's where your passion is and where you want to continue.

[06:26] Rodrigo Fernandez: Exactly. When some people tell me, how would I define this project, I always compare it to when you dream of the man or woman of your dreams, and then there's the man or woman of your life. And I think, for me, Diez company, and this project in particular, has become the project of my life rather than the project of my dreams. And that's where the difference strikes.

[06:49] Judith van Vliet: Yeah. And I don't think a lot of people actually achieve that. So I think it is very special.

[06:56] Rodrigo Fernandez: Yeah, it has been a very special journey, and I'm very excited where we are now and where we're heading.

[07:04] Judith van Vliet: So, as you just said, light is crucial because at night, for example, the world is in grayscale, right? It's black and white and thousands of tones of gray. But why is color still so important in the world of light and lighting? Because most of them are not even literally having color. But how do you think this influences currently your daily work? So you have lighting, but also color. How do you combine those, and how do you work with that on a daily basis?

[07:37] Rodrigo Fernandez: Right. Well, obviously, there's color in light that you can achieve, especially now with technologies going from RGB to tunable white, where you can get all the spectrum of color in one object. But then there's also temperature of light, where you can have different tones of light depending on the Kelvin temperature that you can achieve with an object and how that is actually affecting the color of a surface. I think that's what we work with the most, with creating warm environments or colder environments, let's say, for workspaces or for hospitals or for schools. So depending on the activities or the typology of project that we're working on, we're always working with not just the temperature of the light or even the color of the light, depending on the use, but also with how this temperature or object or artifact is affecting the color of the surface that is inviting objects.

[08:42] Judith van Vliet: So the object which may be in color, literally, the design object. And the other part, obviously, is how it projects sheds literally its light onto your walls or on your furniture.

[08:56] Rodrigo Fernandez: Exactly. And I think it also has to do with the effect that you want to create in a project. We work closely with the interior designers, with architects, and we are always in close conversation on what they want to achieve. And we're usually just sort of accompanying them because they're the ones selecting the color palette for the space or the project. But we're sort of assessing them on how this would look, again, sexier or nicer or how to enhance it sometimes. I always say that our job is to hide sometimes certain things. No, because it has to do with light and darkness. So where do you want more light to enhance that? Or where do you want less light to hide some things that you don't want to see in a project?

[09:45] Judith van Vliet: Yeah, that's interesting. So you actually work with those architects and interior designers to make their designs come out best.

[09:53] Rodrigo Fernandez: Yes, exactly. Because, as you know, when you go in a restaurant and it's not well lit, it could be the worst culinary experience. But if it's well lit, if it's sexy, if the plates look good, if the food looks good, then your experience is amazing.

[10:09] Judith van Vliet: Yeah, true. I once was in a restaurant here in Milan where they actually inside, even though outside it was already dark, they had even projected underneath a daylight. So even though we were in front of the windows, they would have a way to project a certain light that we'd all think it wasn't late in the evening. And it literally had an effect on how we felt. And our energy levels were higher because we didn't understand that it was midnight.

[10:39] Rodrigo Fernandez: In the meantime, what happens in casinos? I was recently in Las Vegas and that's the same that happened. They are creating this effect where you don't know if it's day or night, so that you keep on gambling. So your body is really being affected by this source or the quantity of light or the quality of it.

[10:57] Judith van Vliet: Well, you are obviously closer to the equator than I am here in Milan in Italy, but that I'm born in the north of Europe, as you all well known. I have a brother in Sweden where light is a whole different topic than it is, of course in Mexico, but also in the Americas where you work. So that is also, I guess, something you have to take into account. Like in Sweden, you have a different way of working with light because they have a lack of light in the winter, but way too much light during the summer. And that perhaps also closer to Mexico. How do you work with those differences? But also, what is that big difference that you see in Mexico, for example?

[11:40] Rodrigo Fernandez: Yeah, I think we're very lucky to have these natural light almost all year long or all year long. So we really work with natural light first, and then we decide how, during or as the day goes through, how artificial light is going to interact in the space. Obviously, the orientation of the project is very important depending on the way the sun is coming in, but also how natural light would affect also artificial light during the day, because we're always working with workspaces or different activities that require both. And how do you balance those levels to create an ambience that is working properly? And also, how do you control that, even using, for example, a control system that is actually connected to the way the sun is working. And so when the sun is going down, how these levels of light are going up so we work a lot with that programming these different systems. We work with one in particular called Kasambi that was founded in Finland, particularly speaking about these Nordic countries. And it's programmed so that when the sun is going down, the lights are going up and you gradually go into this artificial light without noticing this change.

[13:00] Judith van Vliet: Yeah, so it's gradual. So it's not like putting on the light.

[13:04] Rodrigo Fernandez: Not a big hit. Exactly. It's also meant to be very natural so that your body is getting used to it slowly.

[13:13] Judith van Vliet: Well, talking about lights, of course, we just both went to Euroluce. So the big Milan Design Week, which this year was the addition of light. What were your highlights of this year?

[13:27] Rodrigo Fernandez: Well, obviously for me it was very interesting to see it again after four years. It was the first Euroluce, like a proper Euroluce after the Pandemic. And I think not just the configuration of the fair, but the quality of the stands, the proposals of the different companies that were there was very interesting. I think it was a good time to go back. I could see some innovation in technology, particularly with collaborations like Lucia Plan, I think, did a great job. bivia did an amazing job with new collaborations with designers. And also what we were saying, the way that the lights are controlled wirelessly or being tunable white or dim to warm. Working with all of these technologies on how the light sort of progresses during the day or throughout the day to contribute to the light of the space, but also contributing to your well being, I think I saw a lot of that. And also natural materials, new technologies in materials, reeditions of Historic Products was also something interesting to see. New colors, I think also some companies like Santan Coal presented a new color palette with a color specialist. So I think we're also seeing how important it is also for these industries to incorporate a specialist like you in working with color for new trends or for a new season or a new market. So I think that was also interesting to see these pops of color and different colors than what we're used to. Because sometimes in lighting or in lamps in particular, we see very neutral colors like white, black, gray. And here in some companies, or with some companies, we could see these splashes of color between yellows, purples, like more modern colors and more striking and more innovative as well.

[15:26] Judith van Vliet: So you mentioned wellness. Wellness and also lights that actually warm. I think that's a little bit because what we've been through has not been easy in the last couple of years. And I think the economical crisis, again, is not super easy for a lot of people. So do you think that that is a trend that will continue onwards when it comes to lighting so that it's more human centric?

[15:49] Rodrigo Fernandez: Of course. I think in these 17 years of career I have seen how relevant it has become. I think we have more clients that are conscious on the importance of lighting and the importance of good lighting for their homes in particular, or for their projects. Talking about hotels or commercial projects, offices, hospitals, schools. I've seen in the past, it would be like whatever bald is in the market, they would take it and they wouldn't realize the effect on their health. And I think in the past few years that we've been at home more and being more conscious on our space and our well being and our capacity to feel better, we've become more conscious. And I think people are investing now in new equipment or in new ways of solving their lighting needs, rather than with the refrigerator bulb that was cold and blue and they didn't care. But now they've become more conscious and they understand the effect that this can have in their daily lives.

[16:52] Judith van Vliet: It's interesting in a country like Italy. I mean, you've studied in Turin and you've been here so often, you come every year. Remember the restaurants in Italy, even just five years ago, it was this bright light because the important thing for Italians was to see their food, not thinking about how you as a person would feel sitting in this hideous light. And also everything being visible, including also what you look like and things that indeed, sometimes, as you said, you don't want to see. That also has changed. It's interesting how even a traditional cuisine country also has changed and adapted, let's say, softer and warmer lighting, where they did not until just a few years ago.

[17:39] Rodrigo Fernandez: I think that the introduction of portable lights has also changed. These in restaurants where you see now the little lamps in every table that have made it more like focused on the food or focused on your table, rather than having to illuminate the whole thing because they couldn't find another solution. Or even candles. I think candles are the best source for a special dinner. But now all these portable elements that you see from SAF Verano or Vivia even, or Pablo or any of these companies that are doing beautiful portable lights for the commercial sector, you see it now when you go to Venice or when you go to all these piazzas where there's obviously no electricity to pull through. They're using these portable lights and they're creating an ambience that is sexier and that is nicer.

[18:27] Judith van Vliet: Yeah, no, that's totally true. And it makes dining out a little bit more pleasurable.

[18:32] Rodrigo Fernandez: Exactly, yeah, especially now in the summer. Nicer.

[18:37] Judith van Vliet: When you look at just generally color in Milan design wig, so not necessarily just on lighting. Was there any particular color direction that you see, or a change? Because you've been here last year, too, then it was obviously kitchen oriented, but let's say the main brands are the same. Did you see like a shift towards a different color family, more color, less color.

[18:59] Rodrigo Fernandez: Well, I see more interesting color. I think they're taking risks. And I think this is good, particularly. And you know this even in consumer goods where companies are, like, doing striking colors or some collaborations between other designers and doing striking colors that were not the norm or what people were used to. Even in, I don't know, an air fryer or steam machine or any of these products that you would normally have at home, you see a pop of color or collaborations like super colorful Dolce and Gabana vialetti or the, I don't know, colorful objects that you see. And I think not just in lighting, but in furniture, in textiles. I was able to see it more so in Milan this year and with colorers that were not normally used for these typologies for these categories of product. So that was very interesting. I don't know if it will be a trend to continue, but for sure it was something that they wanted to show this year. Like the big green, like deep greens, like the emerald green, purple, yellow. I think these colors were very trendy this year.

[20:13] Judith van Vliet: These are not the easiest colors normally to apply in an interior design. Green now is very popular due to the pandemic probably to bring green in your house. But that was never really a color that people would bring into the home because it's not a very easy color to combine, especially not when it's wall paints and wall decorations. But it's funny how to see that something like the pandemic has just dumped like 180 degrees on how green is now so well accepted in our homes.

[20:45] Rodrigo Fernandez: Exactly. Yeah, I think we're going to see this trend continue.

[20:51] Judith van Vliet: I think generally color, what we see is that there's more risk taking. There was a little bit more of bravery. It was interesting to see some new colors as well. I think doing color for the sake of color, I think sometimes just finding new direction is definitely of interest. I felt this year the combination of colors was definitely improved because sometimes it's very easy to use color. Combining those, I think that is still the big task for most designers. And I think that was combining, for example, the ochres with the dark reds, with the bright lipstick pink, interesting combinations.

[21:31] Rodrigo Fernandez: And also how do you make sure it's a successful product? I think companies like Apple put a lot of thought into it before launching a new color, like the new yellow iPhone. I'm sure they've put a lot of thought into it before going in the market. And you have to go in the market in the right time. You can't be late, but you can't be too early. So I think that all these companies are really working with specialists in making sure that they're at the right place, in the right place at the right time, with the right color.

[22:04] Judith van Vliet: Sure. Do you believe that? Let's say you just mentioned Apple. You just mentioned a few brands. Do you think that these brands that are pushing color trends or let's say they're following color trends wherever they are in that hierarchy? Do you think that generally color trends are also then moving into the light market? Or is it something that the light market is a little bit outside of?

[22:29] Rodrigo Fernandez: I think there is an influence no, I think even fashion, fashion probably goes first and then it transfers to other categories. But I obviously see an influence on what is happening in other industries and how it's impacting lighting in particular. And you can see it with certain companies that are doing now what some fashion companies were doing in the past and also certain collaborations. I think today the word collaboration is super important and how some lighting companies are connecting with other specialists to add color to their product, not just by doing so, not just for the sake of it, but with a thought behind or with a specialist that's endorsing the idea of why this color is important. I think that's what I'm seeing more, and I think that also adds value to whoever is using this product in a project. Now, if you're doing a hotel or if you're doing a home or interior design, you use this because there's more, let's say, validation in the market, because someone else who is more specialized than you in that particular matter is actually saying that this is the right thing to do.

[23:42] Judith van Vliet: No, that is true, I think, and that's what we saw a little bit more this year in Milan Design Week, that experts were being called in on particular topics. What I think was generally a trend is that many brands were collaborating with big designers or big names, let's call it the names of the now. Right. Which is, I think, something that's a trend per se. Sometimes I do wonder like that's. Playing safe, right? For a brand, it's playing safe. Sometimes I wish that some brands pull out their vision a little bit more and be a little bit more brave on their own.

[24:20] Rodrigo Fernandez: Yeah, well, I think it's true, but it's also very smart. I think companies like Yadro that you know, from Spain have called important names like Jaime that you and I recently met just because obviously because they're super good, but also because of what they could do to their company. I think the incorporation of Jaime to Yadro completely changed what Yadro is now. Not just because the product changed, the color schemes changed, and now they already know that this is a successful formula. And the most recent lighting collaboration for Yadra was with Luca Niketo that you probably saw in Milan, which is this beautiful, completely out of the ordinary Chandelier, but not just the shape, but the color is super striking and very Memphis, but also very soft, like 60s kind of look. And they know this is going to be successful, not just because of the name behind it, but the color and the product design that they've created. It's called Blown Collection, and it's really nice. Check it out.

[25:30] Judith van Vliet: Yeah. No, indeed, because obviously people are not singing what we're talking about. I think that was indeed a very interesting color combination and a good match.

[25:40] Rodrigo Fernandez: Both between color, the designer and the company that they're working with.

[25:45] Judith van Vliet: Yeah. Today I was talking with another editor about minimalism and Maximism, and I think that is a very interesting thing. My take on that was, why do we have to choose? It's not like you are a minimalist designer. You only go into that direction, and that automatically doesn't mean color. Not necessarily. Is that true? I think there's both ways, and I think in Milan Design Week, we saw both. We saw clean, simple. I think that is also to do with the ecological trends that we're seeing, the whole trend about sustainability, recycling. But there was also a lot of opulence, a lot of mix, color, pattern not go crazy. I think it was still sophisticated.

[26:33] Rodrigo Fernandez: Yeah, I think so. I think the superposition of materials, of textures, of patterns, of colors has been around for a long time. I think bringing it back is giving you some, again, sexiness, some comfort and some happiness. And I think that's what we've been aiming for in the past couple of years. And I think that's why it's back with huge proportions, with big patterns, with color, like that Dolce and Gabana Home Collection. It's a pop of color, of happiness. And the people that use this product are probably trying to give a statement true.

[27:13] Judith van Vliet: And bring that into their homes. So you've recently traveled also, obviously, you've been to Spain, you've been to Prague, you've been here in Italy, and then obviously, you've had other travels going on as well. So you have a pretty good vision of what's happening in Europe with lights and needs that people have to light. How is the market in Mexico different? And why do you have a company like this company? Was it so necessary to do something that was really for Mexico?

[27:45] Rodrigo Fernandez: Yeah, that's a good question. When, again, 17 years ago, without much research, but with a clear idea that there was a need in the market. We started this lighting company, first of all, because there was no one wanting to deal with the whole process of certification and import expert regulations and all the process that it can be difficult or that can be painful. And we've stayed as the specialist. I think we found the right niche, we found the right need in the market, and we have been able to succeed as a company in always being offering the best of the best in this field. Some people tell me, why are you not interested in furniture or in other categories? And I always say I want to remain as the specialist. No, I want to be the professional that's involved in lighting and that people come to us because they have a specific lighting need and that we are able to solve it and work with a voice of experts. And that's what's very important for me. And as you say, Mexico is very particular in that way. And I've been able to understand and compare other markets. Mexico right now obviously is in a really good place. Everyone wants to come to Mexico, including you, for many reasons. But Mexico right now is super trendy. And I think I always compared to New York in the think Mexico City right now is like that idea of New York City where everything was possible, where there was a creative group doing something, where people were from everywhere because no one was from New York. All these people were coming from different places to achieve something or to succeed in a field, be it theater or arts or wherever it was at the time. And I think today I see Mexico City as that. I think everyone is coming here because they see it as an opportunity. Obviously the weather is great, the architecture is great, the foods in is amazing. But also the people that is around and that are creating something interesting, the galleries that are opening, the artists that are creating something in Mexico, even if they're not from Mexico, they are working and living here and they're proposing something based in the context of the city or of the country. And I think that that has as a result, a bigger market for everyone, including us. I think new restaurants are opening and they need lighting, new homes being built, new and more sophisticated, I think more and more so, the interiors are more sophisticated. People understand now the need for an interior designer or an expert and also for better lighting. So for us the market has really opened up and it has given us many opportunities to participate in very interesting projects, including obviously hotels, which is one of our biggest market also because tourism is really big in Mexico right now and I think that's what makes it very special and very unique. Obviously we work with different designers from around the world to create projects in Mexico. And we try to work working with the local context, with colors that go with also with the context of the place where they're being done. It's not the same if we're doing a hotel in San Miguel Dende or in Tulum. There's obviously different needs, not just in the materials, but in the color schemes or in the quality of the light that we want to provide.

[31:21] Judith van Vliet: A lot of people don't understand, especially there is no such thing as just copy pasting. What's been done here, not necessarily can be done here. There is context. There is indeed culture. I thought indeed Mexico is booming. The whole world is looking at what are they doing in. Mexico and what are they doing is not obvious. But Mexico City is a city of more than 22 million people. And that's the official number. I mean, there's many more, obviously. And then obviously, not counting even the commuters, like, I even consider myself commuter to Mexico City. It is funny how that is. And I've been there multiple times, and it's an energy level that you have in other places. What I've noticed, however, from coming this year for the last time, is that you hardly hear Spanish on the street certain area. So there is a lot of creativity. You just said it's like New York in the 80s. Why do you think Mexico City offers these possibilities? Is because it's still raw, it's open to everything, I think so.

[32:25] Rodrigo Fernandez: I think still raw. I think Mexico, obviously, with its good and bad sides of it, is also very easy to do stuff. There are not many regulations on how to do certain things. So I think it's a place of possibilities. I think it's still easy to found a company here. It's still easy to succeed, in a way. I think when you go to New York now, after 40 years, after 40 years in the 80s, competition is super big. I think it's difficult to stand out, to succeed. And here, I think it's still very virgin, already raw, there's many possibilities. The creative scene is not that big yet. And we still know each other and it's still easy to enter into this. And we're also very welcoming. We like other people from other places, from other countries. We make sure they feel welcome and we appreciate what they are able to teach us. And I think that's also interesting because we are learning all the time from other people on how to do certain things, but they are also learning from us. I think that's important.

[33:35] Judith van Vliet: I think that is it. For example, in Italy, as you know, it was in the country that was very focused on necessarily other cultures, let alone other restaurants that were not Italian food. Suddenly we have like Mexican restaurants popping up and you can drink mescal in almost all of the, let's say the better restaurants. So that is a sign that something.

[33:59] Rodrigo Fernandez: Is exactly and obviously food is very important. We have a big scene. And now the best chef in the world was named Chef no. Elena Regalis, who's the chef of Rosetta, was named the best chef in the world. So everyone is wanting to be here. The next cruise show for Dior is going to be held in Mexico City this Saturday. So that also means something. I think the cities that are seeing these cultural manifestations, these design manifestations, are the ones that are to interest globally. And if companies like Dior are coming to Mexico to do this, it must mean something. And I'm very excited to be here, to be able to participate of the culture of this city. And to see what's happening. It's an interesting time.

[34:54] Judith van Vliet: I learned just a few weeks ago that actually the Mexican kitchen as its entire is actually part of the UNESCO heritage. The only other kitchen that is, that is the French it's the French kitchen and the Mexican kitchen. Then there is products like pizza as just one dish that are but the higher kitchen out of Mexico is protected.

[35:21] Rodrigo Fernandez: By it's like immaterial heritage. Yeah, it is crazy, but it's amazing. I think it's a good time design and for Mexico and in general.

[35:32] Judith van Vliet: So this late fall, you're going to then again open I mean, this is what all people in Mexico City also. Are you're going to open your new Mazone Diaz Company exhibition. This is something that you started a couple of years ago. Is there anything that you already want to reveal to the listeners or what we may expect or what we maybe also expect color wise?

[35:52] Rodrigo Fernandez: Yeah, well, obviously, yes. I'm very excited. This year is a little different. Every year we move from a location to a different location. We've been in four different locations so far, and we also move from neighborhood to neighborhood. I always thought that mezondias is this project that has the capacity to affect positively the area that it happens in. So we were in Roma for the first year, and that was very positive also for the area. It was a shorter version of it, but it was the first one, so it was almost a better test. Then the second year we went to Juarez, which was a big project, a big mid century building in Juarez, which affected also very positively the area. Then we went to Escandon, to a smaller villa, but beautiful. And then now we are in this crazy space that you were able to see, which is a former gym, tennis school. And the space is so magical, and you've seen it. No. In thinking more and more about the idea of leaving and finding a new space, we had the opportunity to stay longer. So this year my challenge is not to leave, but to stay. And I think that's also an interesting challenge that I want to pursue and I want to see what the result is. So we're going to stay. That's one of the news. We're going to stay in the same space. Yeah. San Miguel Chapultepe, which is also an area that is booming, full of galleries, new restaurants, beautiful architecture. So the area is amazing. The space is incredible. So we're going to reimagine the space in the next couple of months to reopen in October and let people have a different experience within the same space. Now, it's a bit like what happens with Hermes in Milan every year, they use the same space, but it's always different. So this year, the exercise for us, or the challenge is to keep the space, but it's a different concept, it's a different exhibition, and people will not understand how it can be the same space. So that's one idea I'm not going to reveal a lot, but there will be a splash of color, and we're going to use the trends of 2024 for comics, for sure.

[38:16] Judith van Vliet: Yeah, that is definitely exciting. And I think especially that collaboration with comics obviously is going to enhance, again, just like you said, collaboration. Sometimes they're there for a reason. It's not just networking. It is bringing the best of two actually out there to the audience and to whoever is interested in coming to your event.

[38:39] Rodrigo Fernandez: Exactly. Yeah. So coming up, put it in the calendar. We'll tell you the dates when we have them. But it's very exciting also because the Community of Design are always expecting this. They are anxious to know what we've been doing. It's the hottest ticket in town. So we really like the fact that we've become a company that is also promoting design and doing these kind of events that are helping the community. They're not just helping us, they're helping our competitors. They're helping the level of quality of what's happening in Mexico City.

[39:16] Judith van Vliet: Yeah, that's great. And I think that is a good way forward, community building and spreading that world and the word on everything that is light, design and color. Of course. Rodrigo, this has been amazing. I thank you so much for all your information and sharing your experience, and we will see each other soon, but I'm definitely coming in October.

[39:39] Rodrigo Fernandez: Great. I'll be very happy to see you. And something we didn't mention, and I'm not sure when this will be released, but today is the International Day of Light, so it was perfect to have this conversation with you in such a special day for us.

[39:53] Judith van Vliet: This was perfect. So this is going to be released in two weeks time, but today was the 16 May, just so that people will look back at that day and wonder, what was I doing that day?

[40:04] Rodrigo Fernandez: Yeah, exactly. Thank you very much. Did it.

[40:07] Judith van Vliet: I hope you enjoyed this last episode. If you are a fan of the Color Authority podcast, please let us know by reviewing and rating our show on whichever platform you're listening on.

[40:17] Judith van Vliet: The next episode is coming out next.

[40:19] Judith van Vliet: Month, and in the meantime, I'm wishing you a wonderful, colorful day. You.