S4E04 Cinematic Emotions with Ilya Viryachev

How is designing color for animation and cinematics different than for physical products and spaces? Ilya will bring us along his journey in the world of games and animation as he explains how he applies storytelling through color in cinematic scenes.  How do you create the unexpected through color while creating the right atmosphere for a scene? How do you use color to evoke emotion? 

Ilya Viryachev is an artist born in Almaty, Kazakhstan, who has spent his formative years in Vancouver, Canada and now living in Los Angeles, California.

After having graduated from the Art Institute of Vancouver, Ilya worked as an animator on multiple TV shows and later transitioned into the Concept Art field. After working as an Art Director in the animation industry for a number of years, Ilya’s latest journey took him to Blizzard Entertainment to lead a team of Visual Development artists to create new cinematics. While that keeps him busy during the day, he spends most of his free time on traditional painting, podcast, travel, murals, and being involved in the local art community.

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Transcript

Judith van Vliet: Welcome back to The Color Authority, the podcast about everything that is color. Now, the beauty of my work on this podcast is that I get to interview people that know all about color in a particular industry that I know nothing about. And that definitely is the case with my guest of today. My guest is Ilya Viryachev, and he's born in Almaty, Kazakhstan, and he has spent most of his formative years in Vancouver, Canada. That now living, however, in Los Angeles. In California. After having graduated from the Art Institute of Vancouver, Ilya worked as an animator on multiple TV shows and later transitioned into the concept art field. After working as an art director in the animation industry for a number of years, Ilya's latest journey took him to Blizzard Entertainment to lead a team of visual development artists to create cinematics. While that keeps him busy during the day, he spends most of his free time on traditional painting, podcasting, traveling morals, and being involved in the local art community. Welcome to the color authority. Ilya. How are you today?

Ilya Viryachev: Doing very well. Thank you for having me. How are you?

Judith van Vliet: I'm great. I'm so excited to speak to you. We were just already talking and in an introduction, of course, on color. And I know you're a podcaster as well, and how about similarities in our jobs? But I think one of the similarities that we obviously have is we both work in color only my life seems to be still sort of color in real, and yours is all over the screen. And that is, I think, where color is going in the future. So hence me wanting to interview you and being super excited to have you here.

Ilya Viryachev: Yeah, that sounds great. I hope it doesn't just stay digitally. I feel like we got to keep it physical, too. There's a lot of video out there, but I know certainly I guess we can eventually later talk about VR and everything else and where I said there's a lot of talk about how people can consume it, a lot of media through color.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, exactly. Well, I ask everybody on the podcast the very first same question, and it's now my fourth season, so I've had many interesting answers, but I'm also interested, of course, in your answer. So what is color to you?

Ilya Viryachev: Iya I'm so glad. I'm very happy I'm here. I feel like and it's been so cool listening to your podcast because you asked some questions that I feel like I actually never really thought about. So this was an interesting one to think about. And I suppose because I'm in my full time job is in the entertainment field, and it approaches color very differently than making personal work and art for myself. So I guess, like, on a human level, it feels like just life. I realize, like, I just appreciate color. It stands out to me, and often I notice it. It must be because part of visual training, trying to be a painter. But just like, sometimes you see atmospheric perspective and mountains at a certain time of the day when they become super purple. And sometimes you point it out to people, and if someone is not an artist, it takes some second to go, wow, it actually is purple. I didn't realize. And I think it's because your eyes trained that way. But for me, it feels like yeah, I don't know. It is life. It is joy. Yeah. And I realize that you probably take it for granted. Very much so. For work, it is a vehicle to carry emotion. It is a storytelling device. Yeah. This is actually a very difficult question to answer.

Judith van Vliet: It's almost everything, right?

Ilya Viryachev: Yeah, it is. And it feels like I wonder if it's the kind of question I'd probably be more capable of answering if maybe I went to, like if I studied fine art in university, I would imagine there would be a lot more focus put on the conceptual side of art.

Judith van Vliet: But what did you study? So you are obviously in the entertainment market, in the industry, as you just said, and animation. It's been years that you've been in this world. So what made you passionate about this? But also, what did you study to actually end up where you are?

Ilya Viryachev: Yeah, I spent most of my life in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. And when it came to trying to figure out what to do for a career, my parents were very keen that I find an industry or something where I can make a living. I am and was very passionate about painting and drawing. And so I was trying to find a medium where I could still do that, but can make a living. And at that time, this was 2009, I think illustration felt like, while I enjoyed it, that seemed to be the industry where at least, speaking of family, friends, it could be on and off in the way you could make a living. So animation, I was very excited about it. I love video games at the time, but watching films, animated films as well. And so when I went to look for a school, there's not enough schools at that time specializing specifically whether it was animation or 3D modeling. These days, if you go to a school, you'll specifically pick rigging or texturing. At that time, there was still a transition point. So generally, they'll make people generalist. So you have to do all of all parts of production to get a 3D animated piece. I found a school called Art Institute in Vancouver. The program was less than two years. It was studying 3D animation. Originally, I thought I was going to do 3D modeling, but the recruiter suggested I do 3D animation. And somehow, I don't know how she knew or her suggestion was great, I wonder how my life would have gone another way. But looking back on it, there was kind of an interesting turning point and they just trusted her for some reason. And so the school was very accelerated. It's a private school, so in some ways they kind of just want your money. And I got lucky. It was good teachers and a good group of students that we ended up pushing ourselves because two years is a very short amount of time to become a decent enough professional. It's something new you've never done before. To then try to be employable, worked pretty hard. And my first job was being an animator on 3D animation, on cartoons. Yeah, but that's how it started out. I always kept up with painting and drawing that I knew. That was always my passion. At a certain point when I was looking down the line of what 3D animation career would look like for me, I thought if I was going to do it, I want to get somewhere, I want to do it at highest level, which means film and movies. And that is unfortunately an industry that's very notorious in overtime, 12/14 hours, days is a norm. And I just realized at that point, while I loved it, I liked fine art. Or just like, I like making personal work enough and I guess just needing to enjoy life, that I was like, no, I need to pivot. And it was so at that time, I worked in my portfolio to be concept artist, painter, visual artist. And so the things that I do now, I was not professionally trained per se. I took some online classes, but otherwise it was all self driven, analyzing artists and trying to learn from them. I guess it's a long answer, but.

Judith van Vliet: You are passionate about the animation and the video world. Because what I hear is that you're still having a rather large foot in the real world of what paint is and what color is and what art is. And that's probably one of the reasons why you don't want to do those twelve to 14 hours a day. Because apart having a social life, probably, but also because you want to actually be also part of that physical world and be creative there too. But where did that passion from video gaming and entertainment, online entertainment come from? Did you grow up in that area or was it just something that because of that person who directed you in a certain way? I had a person like that as well. Is that why you ended up really where you ended up? Or is it a deeper passion?

Ilya Viryachev: I grew up loving the medium. Specifically, I'm more drawn to storytelling media because I feel like story is powerful. And generally when I work in animation, everything you do is there to serve the story. So visual support, it like story is king, I think is a quote that people use often. And so when I work with a director, when it was our directing, when you work with the director. All you want to do is help this person tell their story in the most clear way. And art can enhance the emotion that they're trying to get. It can tell story without needing to put it in words. Visually you can tell so much and whether it's color, subject matter, but that's what I was really passionate about. But it did come I think, from just watching animated films. There's a film called Mun, the Guardian of the Moon. Made by French studio, I believe. But I bring it up just because I remember seeing that film and it felt like it's so unconventional the way it was done. It was nothing like 3D animation is or at the time. And they generally push the envelope and I love the creativity of it. But where I'm at now at Blizzard, I grew up playing pretty much all of their games. At some point in my career I worked in mobile game companies. I wasn't sure if I would work at a game company just because what it takes to make a game is different, what it takes to make an animation. And as I mentioned, I think I personally as an artist, I function better when I can file and understand there's a script because it makes my decision making a lot more clear. If I'm going to make a piece of armor, for example, for a character, it's going to serve the story. I'll need to dive deep and find out what this character kind of past is, for example, or where they've been to try to make decisions for how they look, for the viewer to understand it without really knowing much about this character. And these days I don't paint as much and we can get into that later. But still a lot of these skills and kind of these passions are very important. But going to wrap it up about Blizzard. I always loved their work. I mean, pretty much played every game. Their cinematics were incredible. And so for me it is pretty wild that I ended up here. I think I'm maybe eight or nine months into this new job working on the cinematics team.

Judith van Vliet: Oh wow. So you actually ended up in one of your actually favorite companies. Of the games that you play, what is it exactly that you do at Blizzard? Right now.

Ilya Viryachev: My job title is Visual Development Supervisor. So having this department is very unique. It feels like a small animation department within a big game company. And Blizzard is renowned for their cinematics where trailers. But the quality has always been highest in the industry. And I think I myself always had a lot of admiration. I think it's what really gets people excited for, at least personally I think for their products, for the game and really for the world and the characters because they're able to make it feel so tangible that it feels like you can be in it. And I think that's the power of the medium, that you don't just see something, you feel it. And you feel it's like, I don't know, for people who love Harry Potter, you watch Harry Potter and feel like you want to be in that world because they capture it so beautifully. And of course, color plays such a big role in it. And again, we'll talk about that. But my current job, I have a team of artists that I work with, and I'm in a position where I need to create the most clarity between directors, our directors and my team. It feels like a big supporting role. We need to make sure that if directors have if there's some sort of clarity needed, I'm there. If we need to talk about something, let's say we're making an object and it's got to go through all the pipeline steps in three D, and someone needs help, whether figuring out if it's going to work three steps down the line. Because I worked as an art director in 3D animation, so I've seen kind of the process from beginning to end because I used to be a 3D animator. So understand, for example, what it means to rig a character, which means kind of put digital bones in a 3D object to then use it like a puppet. And because I have painting background, I believe kind of all these things combine to make me good at this role, just because it requires understanding of each element, whether you're working with the artist and understand their path, if they need some sort of support, I can be there for them. Or if it means working with directors and understanding what they're looking for, to then, if needed, if necessary, help guide some of the teammates to get to the end result required.

Judith van Vliet: When we talk about color generally, what role does it play in this world? Because storytelling is obviously when you have a story, a script, as you say, you translate that into individual. But then color. Where does color stand? Is that in the beginning? Is it a big part of it? It doesn't come at the end? Where does color stand?

Ilya Viryachev: I believe it is huge. Whether you look at art of books for animated films or cinematics, generally, the color script is something does get done pretty quickly. So often after the storyboards are done and the director want to figure out their color beats, sometimes you see kind of strips of color and sometimes may not even be like a painted image. It would just be like a swatch, a gradient that kind of transitions through the story at its roughest moment. Sometimes people start out that way just to get a feeling for the mood they're looking for. And what does it translate to a visual? The challenging part about 3D is that it takes many steps to get to what that final. Let's say, for example, character or scene is right. You may paint the character, you design it by itself, and it will be in their local colors. Meaning like, the gray shirt is gray. It's not affected by light because you want to give this clear information to someone who someone's going to model it, then they're going to texture it. And then we need to texture it like paint what their local color is unobstructed by light. Because eventually you're going to get it to a scene with 3D lights in a 3D scene. And so to get to the point where you do start to play with color, truly to what the final product is going to be, it takes a while. So it does feel very important to imagine what some of the final frames are going to be to help the director, our director, get that feeling. And because we're working in 3d space, if, for example, you want to convey the mood of sadness but you have a character early on and you realize they're going to be bright like neon orange and red and then you have to, as an artist, imagine if you're going to be painting those keys. What can lighting and editing and potentially compositing do if we have no choice? But this is a character from the game. We have to subdue it. What could you do? And sometimes you're locked by these local colors, and then you have to be really clever about how you light it or edit the image or sometimes, hopefully, you can think about decisions early on. But unlike 2D animation, for example, where it's a little bit more immediate, you can't exactly make all those decisions right away. So it makes it difficult, but it makes it interesting. And you do have to think about many, many steps ahead. I know you asked how does the color come in? But otherwise, when we're talking about story, and I know you've spoken about this in your podcast as well, there's cultural differences, but generally, I'm assuming we're kind of making work for yeah. And so that means if we take color red, for example, I think generally some of the analogies that people are used to there's a game called Diablo Four coming out this year, and, you know, it's hell. And there's this kind of there's an evil looking character and they're heavy, leaning into really saturated red. Because I think people will get it right away, right? Like your instincts, your brain will know before you kind of or you're like.

Judith van Vliet: Hell, you'll know, before warm and red and at least like fire, right?

Ilya Viryachev: Yeah. You'll feel it before. You probably think about it analytically in that reaction. So a lot of these tools are used. But I'm very curious about personally about subtlety and how color can be used in maybe unexpected ways. I think because these days there's so much media out there, it may actually require people to try new ways of using it, just because you do need a reason to stand out.

Judith van Vliet: I think color is a way to stand out. I mean, that's what we see in the world of design, physical design, especially in interior design, something a given shape that maybe is a classic even from the 70s or the 80s designed by an architect. By just applying color, it can seem like there's a whole new piece of furniture or this whole new product. So that is interesting of what you also just said is that how light affects color. So it's something that I never really thought about, but because you are obviously even though it's animation, you are representing a world in which something is happening. It's online and of course there's rain, there's sun, there's light and that's also obviously an issue when you do color for a product, you have to understand how light is going to affect a red or a blue. Whether metameric is going to be an issue, color flops because of the pigment issue application, if something is transparent, a color is going to look different. So it's interesting that you still have that in cinematics, that you would still have to think about light darkness, early mornings, for example. So blue daylight, for example, for a scene. So that is all incorporated when you are thinking about what a character wears, for example, and its surroundings, I imagine, and how that's going to reflect in various scenes. That's even more complicated than doing color for, let's say, coffee.

Ilya Viryachev: And it is very exciting for that reason. And often you'll hear directors want to use and they do real life lenses or analogues of those real life lenses in 3D because one is so that a lot of them do come from kind of live action film, but not just that. Humans are used to watching film through a specific lens. In 3D you could make a lens at like 32.255. But not only that. So people will actually work within or directly work within natural lenses and more. So if we're trying to get an immersive experience that is supportive. But even when, for example, making if you're going to make a wooden crate, you will consider it like the wood properties and what if it's wet or what if it's been polished, then it's going to reflect a little bit and then what is that? Do you want that surface quality? There's a lot to think about and again, as you're mentioning and then how will light react to that? Of course, luckily, because you're creating artwork to a frame, you still have some ability to kind of maybe trick or adjust to your frame. If you look at from a side, it may look like crazy things are going on, but as long as that final product is conveying the image, the emotion that you're looking for, we have some tools to do it. But it is very important to try to consider a lot of these elements early on. So it is going to make your life easier or there's going to be kind of expected things. If you have a character wearing really shiny things and you're going to have a singular spotlight shining at them by the time you get to light it, you're going to find out a lot of reflections are going to bounce into the camera, almost blinding you because it's a super shiny material. And so was that an expected result? Do you have to go back, adjust the surfacing, make it rougher and worn? Things like that can happen.

Judith van Vliet: So you are actually, from the moment that you have that first scene you're putting together, let's say in the end, a color palette of what the movie or at least a certain scene is going to look like you're still adjusting until it almost goes into action. Because of these factors, of course, because of light influences, but also, as you said, the dry, the wet, other colors reflecting on each other and contrast, of course.

Ilya Viryachev: And luckily, you're working with professionals who have been doing it for years or decades. And so hopefully, or generally, a lot of people, especially at Blizzard, I know a lot of people are incredibly experienced and they know and expect how to do a lot of these things. I personally get excited about working with them. But again, because each department is going to take care of their own aspect, each one is so incredibly proficient with it. Generally, you shouldn't have surprises, but because the Visual Development department is the first department to visualize something, and ideally, if we can create something inspiring that other departments can feel excited about and then build on top of it, and they usually do, it is why we have to think about all those things. And we may not be like, I'm just speaking as an artist, I may not be the best at predicting some of the material qualities or the lighting qualities, but because you kind of have to do it all at once, you hope that you can do a good enough job to represent some of these ideas. And sometimes you may do it roughly and may actually be better because then the viewer will people perceiving their artwork, will interpret it in their own way. They won't feel like they're locked in by decisions you made, but they feel like they got guidance from you based on the art directors and directors vision to then proceed and take the piece further.

Judith van Vliet: Are there certain colors that just, you know, they won't work, or will any type of color work in the online world?

Ilya Viryachev: That's an interesting one.

Judith van Vliet: There's possibly colors that you will not see on the screen right? There's possibly color subtleties, like you said before, so rather subtle colors that you just know they won't come across.

Ilya Viryachev: I believe the challenge within that is, and I know that any or most digital media struggle with the same thing is not knowing what the final output or the final screen will be. Sometimes, whether like when I was art directing or working here at Blizzard, sometimes you want to make the most beautiful image possible with the most subtleties. But you don't know if the person is going to watch it in their phone on their 20 year old TV on there. Or maybe it's going to be OLED screen or maybe it's going to be like a pantone color corrected screen. So you hope to create it for the best scenario or generally at least that's what we did. And when, for example, when it was our directing and you would go into the final di process where you're adjusting colors per full episode at the end, again, you're working on kind of the best software or the best screens they have, just because you got to make it look the best there and then hopefully everyone else will look okay. I think it's the same as music or I would imagine they're probably mixing it for the best speakers. But then when it comes to how people are going to perceive it, you don't have control over it. So to answer your question, like some of the colors you can or can't use, I think ultimately you do what you need to do to serve the story and the film or the frame or the game and then unfortunately you may not be able to control the final output. But as far as colors go, for example, whether it's using a certain extreme, the neon sometimes at least in game world generally represents something. So for people who are kind of working in the industry, if you use a super there's like a neon pink that is used it's generally when you open a 3D software it's like a signal that the texture has not been loaded. So I feel like people who are working in this world, they'll get triggered by this. Not triggered but they'll be the feel. So I think in isolation of color like that when it shows up in a scene will probably too much but I feel like nothing is really at least in animation like linear media world. I feel like nothing is preventing you from using it. There's certain films, I'm trying to remember the name of the film but it was a girl who she went to the moon and it turned out to be this magical world. I'll look up the name after but it was like there was part of a scene they just went for such incredibly saturated colors and harmonious combinations as they just went wild like they just wanted to unleash color onto you and they did it so successfully. They probably cranked up situation to almost 100 but it still works just depending on how you use it in context to one another.

Judith van Vliet: I think that is still the medium. It's what type of television people are looking at, what type of screen are people looking at and I think you're right. You won't go for the average great result. You go for the best possible result and then just hoping for the best. That's what it sounds like. I mean, that's the same when you design for the physical world. If you design for a consumer good, you don't know in what retail shop they're going to put that. And you have had this amazing idea for this color and also the environment of this color and the light. And then you go to whatever retail, and you just look at your newly designed product and you're like.

Ilya Viryachev: That's not.

Judith van Vliet: Entirely how I had envisioned my color and my design. I mean, I think that is still very largely part of who you are as a designer and what you aim high and then you just hope, is it different? We are both designers. I obviously are more on the color side. But do you think designers for the entertainment world need to have a completely different skill set besides obviously being able to use technology and software?

Ilya Viryachev: That's an interesting I think, these days because again, because of how I don't know if segmented is the right word, but because the departments are separated in such niche the skill set that needs to complement their general understanding. Of what makes a beautiful image. And I'm talking like, fundamentals, whether it's understanding, color theory, anatomy, lighting, perspective, which we could call as like this fundamentals, depending on an artist's role and extra levels of understanding do need to come in. For example, there are certain games that have artists who are weapon artists, and all they do is design weapons for those games. So their understanding of that subject matter needs to be pretty high. There's people who specialize in environment art, and so you can imagine the kind of in depth understanding needs to come into this. What I find very exciting about concept art of the design industry is that it forces you to be very curious because, for example, you may not understand how a car works, but if your task is going to be to design a car, it helps to read about cars, read about how combustion engine works. And if, for example, you have to make a new car 20 years from now, for example, like, imagine it. You're well better served the final product, and be more honest with yourself if you understand that. And that counts for everything. If we're going to have to I don't know if you have to paint a carpet, maybe it helps to understand how it's made. What if you have to make a carpet that looks like it's been worn out? You have to understand how the threads are made, how the bottom is very different, like, it's a lot thicker thread. So it forces you to be very curious about it. And so what happens is that every designer, depending on their kind of their specialty or skill set, on top of the. Basic understanding of what to make and I shouldn't just because basic doesn't mean it's easy. It's incredibly complex how to make something beautiful. And not just that, I suppose functional or again, serving the final, whether it's a story or in game as well, the final purpose for the frame. You need to have this understanding of these other elements, which I find very exciting because I'm naturally curious, but it forces you and allows you to learn about things as you have to make them.

Judith van Vliet: I think designers naturally have a great curiosity because in the end, what you do as a designer is you find solutions for technically problems and issues and obviously needs in society. I think your world is really this world on bringing people onto a journey like whether it is whether it is just at the end of a day. It's fantasy, of course, largely, but it's a dream world. And I think to be creating that for people, yes, you need passion, you need curiosity, but I think you also need to be very innovative. So where do you get your inspiration from? So, when you are thinking about a character, you're thinking about a certain scene, where do you get your most inspiration of how do you start with that character, how you design it, how do you assign the colors to that character?

Ilya Viryachev: The reference gathering process is I find it to be more and more valuable. And often, again, because I mentioned kind of potential situation of the medium or the market, it seems to me it's more important to look at life than it is and at your other competitors. And there's ways to learn from or not. I don't want to say competitors, other products or other games, other animation. It's very important to look at it. But again, because we live in a world where there's a lot more abundance of films and games, there's a lot more value in trying to create your own take and try to in order to avoid the echo chamber of five companies looking at one another and making the same product, I believe. Well, I hope you're surf best by looking at real world. So, for example, if you got to make a let's say you got to make a monster for this game, it may be just like look at some.

Judith van Vliet: Sort of bass and crocodile monsters in this world. How are you inspired by monsters in the real world?

Ilya Viryachev: You got to know the place. There's a place no, but you're right. But that's why instead of looking at how someone else drew their monster, I hope we try to myself and artists encourage to look at real life. Because real life is strange enough. You're going to find those places whether you're going to do like macro photography and find out how little insects work or there's a lot more to draw upon from. And I believe that is going to give you the most purest hopefully honest way. Yeah, I think for entertainment. Well, that's certainly I would say like study from life and that's like regardless of what you're making. But that's generally been the way to go. And so when it comes to creating something and finding inspiration, we make pretty comprehensive mood boards so that you're really thoughtful about what it is you're trying to approach and narrow it down because you could go so many ways. And it feels very important to, in a way, art direct yourself. If someone asks you to create something, there's so much to explore within the range. And so it's very important to have that taste and understanding what is required trained as a skill to then look for the right elements, to then bring into what it is you're making. As far as color selection goes, because the specific job I can speak about other roles that I was in, but in this job, because we create animation specifically to represent the video games that we creating cinematics for, there are constraints. Some people work on games that take them six years to make or more. So imagine how much thought they've put into it. Someone comes to our department, we want to make sure we represent it in the most honest way because you want to represent someone's effort for years and years to be truly what they thought it would be on screen. So we collaborate quite closely. So sometimes some of those decisions are made. And that's what I was mentioning earlier. Sometimes you do need to put a really bright character into a scene that requires subdued colors. But there is tools to do that. And sometimes, maybe actually these accidents make it more powerful or unique. Because if you design this from scratch, you would maybe make it the way you think you feel it should be and maybe it'll become obvious. But what if, for example, you have an unexpected visual in a scene that should be expected, that may actually serve you in a more interesting way.

Judith van Vliet: And that's always pushing that boundary, right? Finding that surprise element and pushing that boundary and finding that unexpected. And I think that's the hard part.

Ilya Viryachev: It is you got to harness the accidents and the magic to try to make it happen.

Judith van Vliet: Earlier you talked about Hell, I think, or you talked about Diablo. Well, obviously, immediately I'm getting warm and it's like orange and it's red. That would be expected. So I think there is still a fine line between when you create a scene, there's what there is expected because of the elements that you're working with, whether it's fire, water, air, and then obviously to do the unexpected. How do you balance that with the color families? Because obviously water and air often is blue. So you have to work with those. But then you have those subtleties and unexpected color combinations, as you said. How do you try and balance that?

Ilya Viryachev: That's a very interesting question, I think when it comes to original design process of trying to if we're imagine let's talk for example, we have to imagine hell. By the way, I wasn't part of this project. I'm seeing the final results for people listening. You should check it out. The team did an amazing job. But if let's say you have to imagine it. And as you're tasked with this, generally most people want to be able to contribute to the visual and do it in their own way. So I guess in this case it'd be multiple ways to approach it. One, I would first try to go from the kind of function, actually understand what the world is you're trying to make, because that will help dictate what the colors are, the typical functional reform. So for example, if we're creating this environment and let's say it's hell, and you can think about like, okay, what is atmosphere? Are there gases? Is everything on fire? Does the light even get through the clouds? Is there a light in hell? I don't know. What does the light come from? And so the more you ask questions, the more it'll lead you to some sort of answers will guide you there. And while you may not be able to answer all of them, but for example, like, okay, maybe there's a lot of sulfur in the air. And so you're like, what does sulfur do when it's in the air to light qualities? And I think that's one way to get to answers that will lead you to potential colors you could use. And they could result in actually very interesting things because you've thought through them sometimes you could just like, okay, let's add floating rocks with crystals in the air and that's going to refract light in a certain way and I'm going to get a unique scene. But that almost feels like kind of random. Like, does it really serve the story? Maybe in some world it does for the game you're designing. But in this case, again, trying to understand what it is you're making will actually help you come up with something unique. And those color combinations, maybe they're based on kind of whether it's physics or combinations or in the end, if we had time to speak with the director or our director or understand where we're headed with this, you could try to introduce some of those elements and force them into the scene. Whether, again, it's like through actual objects and how they're made through lighting. If it's hell, we're probably looking for a lot of contrast. We're looking for a lot of deep darks. Is it like charred earth? Is it burnt trees? Is it just you don't get a lot of direct light because you're in hell and the only light you're seeing is lava, right? So maybe that's the case. I do find it's important that you don't just make up things arbitrarily or randomly. But again, you really think about whether the mood or the setting you're in and hope will help you guide it. Now, to your question of like, okay, how do you not go for generic and you try to look for unexpected. I don't know if I have a good answer for it. I think you have to be very conscious that that's what it is you're looking for and then trying to justify why it is the way that it is. But because nobody has been to hell that we know we can come up with whatever we want to do.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, that will be a call to action for everybody listening. I think, actually, hell is on Earth, so that's pretty much what this or that.

Ilya Viryachev: There you go. Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Inspiration from real life. Right. We already talked a little bit about screens, but also, are there new technologies or new ways of new innovative ways of actually creating color, but also, what are generally the innovations in your industry, currently, that you're excited about? That maybe you're currently not working with yet. But how you can immerse people even more in yes, color, but also in your cinematics.

Ilya Viryachev: Yeah. The interesting thing about so I mentioned at the start about VR and how that seemed to be kind of technologies that boomed and kind of slowed down. I'm sure it's going to be back even for people who whether you go to Disney or I'm sure there's parks using this immersive technology, just because I believe kind of the entrance points into having that device at home is still potentially maybe kind of stopping people from being able to get in there. That means the market hasn't followed it there yet to create enough products to have variety and abundance. But it seems like it's headed there, and so it feels like a natural step towards it because it does create incredible immersion that I don't know if you ever tried VR, but the first time you tried it, it does feel pretty incredible because your brain is backwards.

Judith van Vliet: The Oculus is very heavy as well, but I fell backwards. I remember somebody was literally holding me, but that was not enough.

Ilya Viryachev: Yeah, it is disorienting, but it's interesting how quickly your brain can actually adjust. I kind of understand what it is you're kind of doing, which is really disorienting. And then I remember having experience, I think, whether it was a game or something like that, but because the colors can be so saturated, it feels odd to go back into real life quotations because all of a sudden you're perceiving the world differently. Like, wow, this was super colorful. And then you realize, maybe the Matrix can be real one day, because apparently VR world can be pretty bright. I am joking and all, but I think that is something that still needs to be explored and the potential of it for immersion, I don't know. I don't think about it. I don't spend enough time thinking about it. I'm not sure why. It almost feels like too big of a task or too complicated. Ultimately you're still going to create in similar ways and the thinking process is going to be the same. But then if we're in the past, you create things to a frame, at that point, you're going to have to create artwork to a 360, or basically you just have to make the world, which is how game designers make their artwork. So in animation, you only have to think about this world. But when you're making a game, especially games these days, they're kind of open world. People can explore every corner, look into every room. So the way they make is actually it's crazy how much they have to make. They're making new worlds, actually. And so they can easily port a game into VR. Of course there's a lot of technology involved, but from the asset standpoint, they are already there, as you said.

Judith van Vliet: Why is augmented reality and VR, why is the focus less right now? Why do you think that is? Is that because of post COVID? Is it post pandemic? Why do you think there's less concentration in this market right now? Because it seemed to be so promising and then obviously the whole metaverse came to life. I mean, the metaverse is not I think it's been around for a while, but people are more into it. Why do you think that even though now the metaverse seems to be increasing in popularity, how the RNA are somehow collapsing? Do you think that's related or why do you think that's happening?

Ilya Viryachev: It seems to me that, one, the technology is not there to compete on the same visual level as what people are used to. The quality that you can produce on a normal screen versus VR, it requires such high computing power that it creates problem number two, that for anyone to enjoy it, you need to have either a really good computer and I'm talking PC, or you need to have a special device. And in a world where, let's say, you're making games or animation and if you only focus on a specific market and you're going to sink, let's say, 50 million into making something if you find out that if you went into straightforward medium and you wanted to release it for screens or Netflix. Your user base could have been whatever, let's say a billion. I'm just making up numbers. If you went into VR world because people don't have, you know, there's not enough VR in the market, maybe because the technology is so new that it's still relatively expensive. Now your audience is 50,000, I mean, making numbers up, but the financial incentives don't feel like they're yet there yet. I know many big players, and when I say players, I mean big companies are trying to get into the market because while it's lucrative, it seems like we're in a transition point. But also most people don't know what to do with it yet. It's so alien. It's not interactive. Like if you're sitting on a couch with your wife, let's say you could both watch an animation, or one of you could wear the thing in your face while the other one just kind of watching you do that. So there's these kind of barriers. Honestly, again, maybe that's why I don't know. I haven't analyzed it enough. I know that it's kind of on the periphery. It's coming, but maybe it actually makes more sense for games to go there first again by the nature that they're made than maybe animation because it feels like exploring or experiencing linear media while having control over listening or not listening to the main characters of the movie can actually be very disruptive unless it's made like a world to live in. And then you kind of wonder what's the barrier between animation and games at that point?

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, because indeed the gaming industry is increasing. I mean, the money, it's a million dollar, if not already a billion dollar industry, and it's going to grow exponentially. So it would feel logic indeed, for the gaming world to incorporate or to merge with, indeed what is currently augmented reality and virtual reality. What is your take on the Metaverse and all of this and especially the quality of the design on the Metaverse and the color use? Because right now it's all over the place.

Ilya Viryachev: I see it. Yeah, it really is. It's very unappealing. And I think that's another reason why we haven't maybe seen it succeed. It feels like it's a couple of decades back compared to its competitors, not in VR, but in that world. It is odd. And Metaverse itself, whether it's sinister or not, they have their own motivations and what that is trying to be, and I'm sure mixed with crypto and everything else, it's a world that I don't think everyone understands. But it's not like you're going to play like Super Mario Bros. In 3D. It's something like metaverse. Whether there's collecting your data on top of while you're being there, it feels like purposes that it serves seem to be very unclear. And I think many people still don't have an understanding of it. I don't have an understanding of it. So when I think about making artwork and when I'm thinking about telling stories or my mind doesn't go there. And because maybe like Metaverse, it feels like a product. When you think about what the company is and what they're trying to do, you naturally start thinking that, how are they going to try to make money from people? And we do know data is very big these days, and it's probably potentially just another way to do it. So it'll be interesting where it goes. But you're right. Knowing how much money they've sent into it, it's kind of odd that it looks a certain way. And then it makes you wonder, is it because artists did not want to work on a product like that? Is it because people I don't know, they hold on to their integrity. And actually, I shouldn't say that it's probably super cool to make a 3D world. I just think Facebook has gone through a time when their reputation was not so great. And so it makes you wonder, why couldn't they get some of the top artists in the world to help them make something beautiful other than something crude?

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, no, I agree that I think there are some new projects right now from especially interior designers. Actually, one of Canadian fellow designer, which is in interior design, but Krista Kim, actually she designed the Mars house for the Mythiverse. I mean, not even thinking about whether aesthetically we like that or not. I don't think that's the point. But that's why you see now, I think that fine line diminishing between who are actually designers for products and interiors and how that now is running back to indeed the metaverse. But it is indeed, I think, still our real world just looks prettier. And I think until that world where we can unleash our creativity, until it's not going to look like that really unleashing our creativity and world of colors, it seems to be at a stuck point indeed. And I think color wise especially, there's a lot to be. But back to your storytelling, what you said, what's the storytelling behind it? Seems to be indeed a money maker and just a cool new product. I think that is the line that's one of the reasons why I started this podcast is storytelling. I think if you don't have a story and you can still have a story, but even if you're not telling it right, and that also means individualization of your story, there's very little you can do to make something successful.

Ilya Viryachev: Yeah, I agree. Completely agree with that.

Judith van Vliet: What advice do you have to young designers entering your world? Because there's many that want to enter this world for world. What's your advice to them?

Ilya Viryachev: So for people specifically, I probably would do a better job of giving advice to people who are visual 2D painting, although I guess it applies to 3D artists as well. Find out what it is that hopefully it doesn't sound too cliche, but find out what it is that you really love. And I'm speaking about subject matter and stories that you want to tell and put in those 10,020, 30,000 hours into it. And the reason I say that is these days, because there's so much product, or I keep saying product, but let's say games, animation being made, you're very likely to find what it is you love in there that you want to help create. And the reason I say find what you love to work on is because it is very difficult to put in on your own time, 10,000 hours into this thing. And sometimes the school may not provide you all the hours, all support. And in the end, it's got to be you who does the heavy lifting of you got to sit down by your desk and draw and study and analyze for 10 hours a day whatever it takes to get to a level good enough to get a job. Once you get that first job, you're going to be doing it 8 hours a day surrounded by people who are so much better than you that your knowledge is going to and your skill level is going to skyrocket. But what's important is to get to that first step and again find out hopefully there's something out there you really enjoy that when you sit down to do it for 8 hours, you don't hate it because you're so fascinated by the subject and it may still feel like hard work because it is. But if you unlock this level of appreciation for it, I think it's going to serve you well and you are going to get to that goal faster. And one thing to add to that, I try to tell whether it's new artists on the team or just artists who are new to the industry, I think it's very important to keep making your personal work. In the end the job is a job. And right now we're just kind of judging Facebook for being a money maker. Well, so is every other company. That's how we get paid and that's okay. That is fine. The fact that people hire us and give us money to make artwork is pretty amazing. I think we should not take that for granted. But in the end the job is a job and some days will be good and some days will be bad. And sometimes you'll be asked to do something you don't agree with, let's say aesthetically. And again that's also okay because you don't own it and that is fine. But if you make something for yourself in your free time, you'll have that creative satisfaction regardless of where you are in your life. And so I think try not to let go of it. I do see people who may have had maybe the time or the passion, they start working and all that creativity kind of stays within the work. But I think it's limiting something in them that they always pursued. The reason why they got to this art job is because they wanted to make things in their own expressive voice. So hopefully people listening try not to let go of that.

Judith van Vliet: I think that's very good advice. I think in it having a job, especially if you are for a company in a corporate world, but keeping your own private passion and your private projects, I think that is very good advice and it's very in line with what the generations that now entering the workplace is very much about. They do a lot of what we call hustling, right? They have multiple jobs, multiple projects and that is the give and take. It's where most inspiration probably still comes from, from the real life and then also into your business projects. So that's great. Thank you so much for this interview, for this podcast. I hope you enjoyed it too.

Ilya Viryachev: This was amazing. Thanks so much for having me on. I wish I got to ask you questions back. I think we'll find a way, but this is really good. I know I didn't even touch upon AI, but that's another thing that seems to be looming upon all artistic industries. So maybe that's something another discussion. But yeah, this is awesome. It's great to be here and I'm really grateful for what you do. Like I said, the kind of questions you ask is something that I haven't thought of. But I think it's important to have our industries collide and share knowledge is because the way we think about the visual world is very different. But it can benefit one another. Because I know there's certain bubbles, there's people working games, people who work in fashion, but this seems to be like a great place to have a crossover that's going to benefit us all.

Judith van Vliet: I agree. Yeah, I agree. And I think color, whether online or offline, it still has its intrinsic problems, but also its beauty. So, yeah. Thank you again.

Ilya Viryachev: Thanks so much.

Judith van Vliet: I hope you enjoy this last episode. If you are a fan of the Color Authority podcast, please let us know by reviewing and rating our show on whichever platform you're listening on. The next episode is coming out next month and in the meantime, I'm wishing you a wonderful, colorful day.