The FractionX Podcast
Vision Caster vs Culture Creator. Which one are you?
Casting vision is not creating culture. Creating culture is not casting a vision. Have you stopped to think about the difference? Do you know where your strengths as a leader lie? On this episode Matt and Drew draw the distinction between culture and vision and give some ideas on how to better lead in your business.
Casting vision is not creating culture. Creating culture is not casting a vision. Have you stopped to think about the difference? Do you know where your strengths as a leader lie? On this episode Matt and Drew draw the distinction between culture and vision and give some ideas on how to better lead in your business.
Well, Matt, how was your week? Man, we're back again. We're back. Yeah, love it. Did you have a good week? I did. What have you been getting into this week? Tell the people.
Speaker 1:I met with some clients earlier this week thinking a lot about Fraction X and how we bring value to business leaders. You know I love that. One of the things, one of my habits is I typically try to exercise a lot during the week and I'll leave the gym after lifting, I'll go to the parks we have great parks in Nashville and I'll go run and I'll put on a podcast. Usually what happens is I'll stop like listening to the podcast it's just like background noise and I'll start thinking. So I had this thought the other day and I wanted to like pitch it to you. I was like man culture, just it just matters. You know, there's oftentimes like leaders who are great at casting vision. Sometimes senior leaders are great at creating culture and I was just trying to figure out like what's the difference between something like that? And I was like man, I think we need to talk to our listeners about that.
Speaker 1:When you think about the difference between a visionary leader and maybe someone who's great at creating culture, what crosses over for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's a really great question. I was one thing I love about you as a leader you ask great questions and when you brought this in, I was like man, I hadn't really thought about this this way before. Right, like you got like leaders that start a business or even if they inherit a business, there's a lot of leaders that are like man, let's charge the hill. This is where we're going, and sometimes it's assumed that just because you're a great visionary leader, that you're also a great culture curator, you know which. When you ask the question, I was like, oh man, that's a good point.
Speaker 2:Like those are two very different things and in some ways like even different postures right, and I don't think one's right or wrong. You got to have both of them and there's some leaders that probably can do both really well, but I imagine a lot of people probably have a lean one way or another. And so, as you were asking that question, I think one of the main differences in when it comes to culture, you and I are both kind of culture nerds anyway, we love culture, we kind of geek out on it, but I think there's an overall care for people, maybe even overproduct or equal to product. So and I'm not saying one is necessarily right or wrong, you have to have both, but I think a great culture curator really cares about their people, the behaviors of the people in the organization. You had an example and I'll why don't you say you were talking before this episode about culture and the how and all that kind of stuff?
Speaker 1:I was going to try to say it, but you'll say better when you wake up from a dream and try to explain it to somebody, you're like what are you talking? About. That's what happens to me on these runs sometimes.
Speaker 2:Sounds cooler in your head.
Speaker 1:That's right, 100% so the picture I had in my head is, you know, visionary. It's like it's like a car and a destination, like a finish line and a race, right? So vision saying hey, when we get to this finish line, we win. Yeah, it's like great, we know what to do, we know we get in this car and we go win over here. Now one of the challenges is, if you have a big team we've got multiple departments If you don't define the culture, people get to that finish line in a bunch of different ways. So their behaviors, their attitudes, the things they do to get to the finish line become very different. So it's like someone could be really good at creating culture and they made to say, hey, this is the kind of car we are.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We're a Ferrari.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's beautiful, it's fast, it's exquisite. Whatever Another leader made to say, hey, this is our, you know Ford Focus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's practical yeah.
Speaker 1:It's nothing like you know to really be impressed by.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and either way it's defined, I think, like for me, I've always I lean more in the culture camp, because I never wanted to get to a destination and once we're there, even if we're successful, everyone be pissed off at one another or be burned out or be hurt in the process was, like you know, for me being a real relational guy, you know the culture part of it always, always mattered to me.
Speaker 2:You know, and I think you have to evaluate do you have someone on your team who really cares about how we're getting there, how are people being treated in the process?
Speaker 2:And if you're, you know, most likely if you're a culture curator or a creator, you probably need to look around and be like, hey, I need some help with casting vision, because there's a lot of organizations that are spinning their wheels because they've got a great culture creator and because of the charisma of that person, thinking, hey, we've got great vision, but we really don't, we're not really going anywhere, we're not moving anything forward.
Speaker 2:We're all having, maybe having a good time, or we're all getting along, or we got, you know, ping pong tables in the break room or whatever it might be, but we're not actually successful, we're not moving things forward. So you really have to have have both. And so I think the first thing is being people focused, you know. The other thing I thought of is that you know, really, when it comes to casting vision, in a lot of ways that's a solo sport, like you can, you can kind of cast vision on your own. You can kind of go up the mountain if you will and come back down and like, hey, this is where we're going. Nothing great leaders get buy-in on that.
Speaker 1:They're not doing it alone. It becomes a team sport once you cast it and say, hey, let's all go over here, and people are like, yes, let's go do that.
Speaker 2:But most of the time yeah, exactly Most of the time in organizations there's one person who's kind of saying this is where we're going, like, this is, this is why we started the company. This is you know, whereas the opposite is true when it comes to culture curators. You can't do that on your own. Like, a great culture can't be just someone standing up front saying this is who we are, this is what we do. You know, it takes everybody buying into that culture and really living it out.
Speaker 2:And there's a lot of organizations who claim they have a great culture, but it's mostly all aspirational, you know, just because you put on your wall if you're not modeling it and living it out and your, your team, is not behaving that way. Or or even it's not transferable in the culture as far as even language Like, is it hardwired into the DNA of the organization where people are using this language in everyday conversations? And I don't think it's wrong to have some aspirational like, hey, we're not there yet. So we're going to make this culture, we're going to make you know a piece of culture, something we aspire to be, but mostly I think it needs to be the way you actually act, to behave Right, and so that's that's. Another big part of it is is just inviting people into it and making sure they feel ownership over you. Know what you believe, what you value in your organization.
Speaker 1:I've got a lot of engagement with like really practical trades business people. You know from my background in real estate investing so I work with property managers and real estate agents and mortgage brokers and construction people and you know tile people and all these things who are like just really it's not high finance, you know, it's like really practical businesses yeah. And I think when someone starts an organization like that, sometimes they fall into a business like hey, I was a pretty good plumber at this company so I decided to start my own, yeah. And the last thing they're thinking about is I want to create a fantastic culture at my plumbing organization.
Speaker 1:They're like let's go make some money Like I want to make sure that we serve people well and I want to do a great job, but I'm not thinking about the behaviors of my employees.
Speaker 1:So it becomes kind of the last thing they think about. So when I'm talking to these people, you know, you know great culture, when you experience it. Sometimes you can't even say what just happened. But if you walk into a Chick-fil-A as opposed to, you know, sometimes we're on the road, like traveling the family, and you have to stop at a McDonald's and you instantly know.
Speaker 2:It feels so different.
Speaker 1:It feels very different when you're in an organization that has great culture and you may not be able to even explain what it is you just experienced, but a lot of times, the byproduct of great culture it's not just things on the wall, but like when you tell a Chick-fil-A staff member or thank you, they say my pleasure, like almost without fail. That's not going to happen in other organizations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you made me think Remember the time we actually went down to the Chick-fil-A headquarters. We got to go tour and kind of learn from some of the leaders down there and it was so cool to see how, from even just from the hub, I mean it was like you see now, like you can go to any Chick-fil-A in the world and get a consistent experience because from the very, very like inception of you know where they're making decisions and even making the products, everything else it is so hardwired into their company. I mean it's really impressive to tour that place. So, absolutely true, and I think you know, maybe it's redundant to say, but you know, I think great culture curators and creators, they really do care about the why. You know, why are we doing this, why you know, and I love that.
Speaker 2:I feel like, culturally, there's been a big turn in a lot of leadership recently towards a little bit of a value-led system when it comes to making decisions.
Speaker 2:Right, there's a lot of leaders who realize, hey, what I was told, maybe by the baby boomers or whatever like that, you know, building this big company and being successful and having all this money is the ultimate win, and I'm absolutely not against that. We want to help the companies we're working for be successful in whatever way. We're not opposed to that, but I do love that there's some bigger questions being asked these days of CEOs and leaders that I think are really important about, you know, workaholism and how much are they working versus, you know, being able to be available to their family and to themselves and stuff like that. So I think great culture curators are really taking almost like a long game approach. It's like, hey, we could really be more successful in some areas, but if we were, what does it matter if we get there and we're burned out? Or we get there and, you know, our family suffered? So I think those questions are super healthy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know sometimes, like really fast movement organizations, that maybe they have some aspirational values on the wall but they don't really play about those rules. They may go like why would these things matter? We're just trying, we're profit focused, we're just trying to make sure the bottom line is right and, yes, you've got a responsibility to you know shareholders and stakeholders to really create a great product and be successful. But right now, like staffing is super important. Like, if you talk to any business leader right now and they're like man, if I could just get people to show up and be a part of this. Like we've got a great product, we just can't get X, y and Z here. And if you're not paying attention to culture, that's one of the reasons you have a staffing issue.
Speaker 1:Like I was helping a leader with a job posting they had and it outlined the details here's the salary, here's the job title, here's who you report to. I was like man, that's great, that's the information a candidate needs. But none of this makes me want to work for you. Like, tell me the story of your company. Like make this jump off the page. I mean, we are client focused, we have incredible products, we have an incredibly fun team Like we spend so much time like whatever it is like make someone want to be on your team, and the very first thing on a job posting is salary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you got to get that out of the way, but that doesn't make me go. Yes, like I can't wait to get out of bed and go do that, so, yeah, or make someone want to not be on your team.
Speaker 2:I think the other thing is the opposite is true Reject, that's exactly right. Like if you see something like wait a minute, I actually what I'm looking for in my life is freedom, autonomy, work from home. Like you know, there's some companies and some cultures that are very much like hey, we want you here in the office, we're going to create a great office environment and because that's the nature of the leader and it's very relational that way. And then there's other companies like no, we actually value freedom and other things. I think again, it's not right or wrong, but I think if you can be clear about that, it's going to save you from hiring someone who's going to be like oh, I really just want more freedom, and you're like well, that was never part of our culture in the first place. You know.
Speaker 2:So to your point, I think great cultures reject and they just clarify, like, who you actually want on your team and it's part of I think it's a big part of our offerings, is one of the kind of like the three lanes that we think about when we think about working with teams. You know we love to help with the vision and the strategy part, and there's, of course, the marketing side of things that we would do and you can help leaders, but we also love to help organizations with culture at Fraction X, because it's something that you and I both have spent a lot of time in and really passionate about, and so that's part of kind of what we're, what we're passionate about helping the organization leaders with Get granular.
Speaker 1:What are some ways that we would help a business with culture?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the first thing we do when we go in and help a leader or business is just really help with that, with the story that they're telling. You know, understanding that we I like to use Don Miller's story brand framework. It's just been a really helpful framework for me, but there's a lot of them out there. I think you just got to pick a framework. But I think at the end of the day, it is recognizing what part you play in the story, right, and this kind of bleeds over into the marketing side a little bit. But it also it impacts the culture too, because it helps with how you're positioning yourself or your company in the marketplace, and so it's everything from really leaning in deciding what is that philosophical problem that you're? You know most companies market or sell to the external problem and then some to the internal, but it's really a philosophical problem that gets to like the heart of why people want to engage with your company.
Speaker 1:Do you have a product just real quick for listeners who aren't like really familiar with those terms like that? Maybe you could walk us through what is a external, internal and philosophical problem?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I can solve.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the best brands. I mean it's cliche, but you look at, like your Apple products and your Nike products. I mean, if you look at those commercials and really study how they market, they don't sell you a computer or a pair of shoes, they sell you kind of a lifestyle or who you want to be, an aspirational version of yourself, right.
Speaker 2:And so there's so many people who buy Apple products now that don't even look at other brands because even though the brands might be superior, like I'm a technical specs and I'll yeah yeah, like I'll have buddies that have like a Google phone or some of their phone and does far more than what my iPhone can do, but I won't even look its direction because I'm an iPhone guy, because of what I believe about the product, believe about myself You're tribe, they're these people right.
Speaker 2:So the external problem is, you know, we sell shoes or we sell computers. The internal problem is how does that, how does the problem make that customer feel? What are they feeling? And then the philosophical is that why is it just plain wrong? Right, so that's getting down to, like you know, why do I need to have this Mac, why do I actually need to have this and why is it just plain wrong for me not to have this?
Speaker 1:Wow, shoes right. So where does that bleed into culture? Because I understand that from a marketing angle. But what is that? How does it inform behaviors of your team and what it's like to be in an organization?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because when I think we're working culture, we start with that and we kind of go through that whole brand script and we decide, you know, we recognize that we're the guide, we're not the hero, we have the call to action. All that with Southern marketing. But what I want to help companies with is really getting down to their elevator pitch. Okay, because I want someone. If someone's working in my company and they ask them what they do, I don't want them to tell them the job title Like because, right there, you just lost, lost my attention, you lost the customer, you lost whatever. But if I can get everyone in the company talking, problem solution success right, here's the problem we solve, here's a solution. And here's what we've seen with people who have engaged with our product or our service Awesome.
Speaker 2:I don't even care if the language is perfect on this, but if it's aligned enough for every. Every employee has their own version of problem solution success. Now you're getting down to the why behind now. Now you're getting down to the actual culture. Here's why we exist, so that you're helping people think bigger than just the role they're playing on the team, and so I think it's huge for culture to start there and then part of what we do is we can kind of drill down more, like on language.
Speaker 2:Like at that point it's like okay, do you have a vision or mission statement that everyone can repeat? You know that's part of the you know. So language does matter. I believe deeply in that. You know, do you have values, like express written values that everyone, like we said earlier, that's a part of the company language. But if you don't start with that, with the story and everyone knowing your why and starting with that elevator pitch where everyone you meet on the street is basically you know, a brand ambassador, you know for your company, and they can do it in a way where they don't even mention your company's name or their job title and someone's already interested in engaging with your product or service because they understand the why, they understand the culture of your organization.
Speaker 1:I think you know it's almost like when people start businesses sometimes they get this like all in one stop shop internet package of starting a business and they have some mission statement, they've got a couple values and it's like once they set them, they never look back at those things. It's like, well, that doesn't inform anything that you're doing. Like that, just because you've got some posters on the wall does not mean you've got culture. So talk about the difference between an organization that maybe went through a process and they define those things but they never actually followed up to implement those values.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we talked about this, I think on the last podcast. But constantly auditing you know you talked about skip level meetings in the last one. But I think coming up with a way to constantly be working on your business, not just in it and part of working on it is with the culture side of things Like we've used things like Patrick Linceoni has a ton of great products, like working genius. We use tools like the indiagram Strengths Finder, all those, everything. Basically, they're just tools where we're pursuing information about the behaviors of our company or organization which, again, without psychological safety, can be really tough because you're mining for, okay, how are my employees experiencing this organization? Right, if they don't feel safe, they're not going to tell you oh, it's great, it's whatever. But everything from, do they feel like they're being paid well, do they feel like they've got good? You know it could be work, life balance. It's kind of whatever you value in your organization, could be a list of things. But I think it's really important to have, you know, annual, if not more often, audits of that culture to make sure like, hey, are the things on the wall or the things that we say are true about us? Are they actually true. And our employees, all the way down to the entry level employees, are they experiencing this?
Speaker 2:There's so many executive leaders that will say and there's one organization I won't call them out, but one I'm working with now where if you go downstairs and talk to employees and you go upstairs and talk to the management, there's very different views of how the organization is being run and the culture of that organization. And so part of what I'm doing is helping those executive level leaders be like hey, I think you've got a skewed view of your. You know how your employees are experiencing, you know this organization, so let's, let's close that gap right. It'll never be perfect, but let's close that gap a little bit. And so I think the freedom to say, hey, this value served us well for a season, especially if you're going from small to mid or mid to large, like, hey, this is not, this can't be who we are anymore. We've kind of outgrown this value. We need to re-up and look at it. But you're constantly auditing.
Speaker 1:You know, I think a thing that COVID did to organizations is obviously there's incredible benefits from work from home, right, but decentralized organizations, I think, are really struggling when it comes to what does it feel like to have a culture? Now I've seen a ton of Instagram posts that are like you know, hey, make sure you come back to work because we need culture. And then like it's somebody posting a video of them and they're cubicle and it's like a pizza party.
Speaker 1:Of course that's not culture, but I think there's something about a shared experience and when everything is decentralized, it's hard to you talked about having handles on the values and making them portable and transferable when everybody's got their own office, like, and there's not. I'm not talking about Zoom meetings once a month to go over financials. I'm like I think one of the reasons you know if organizations have gone through an exercise to develop mission statement, vision statement and values on the wall is they don't bring them up with frequency. So it's like, every time you have, you should have a monthly staff meeting, even if it's just to celebrate those values and those wins. Right, not information, not just updates, but like, celebrate the things that have gone.
Speaker 2:well, yeah, tell those stories.
Speaker 1:Time to the values that you think are important, that create your culture. And then again you've got to. I've heard somebody say like, and we're saying these like values that create culture. If it's valuable, it has to cost you something, and that means if somebody like goes against the value, it probably should cost them their job. Yeah, yeah. And if somebody succeeds using one of your values, it should probably elevate their status Like things that are valuable, inherently cost something, so higher for those things and fire from those things.
Speaker 2:That's really good. That's really good. Well, you just made me think. I've got a client here in Nashville and it's like an AI tech startup company, right? Well, when they started, they hired a young team during COVID and when they started coming back to work, one thing that they came to realize is that majority of their staff never worked. So they graduated during COVID. They never worked in a pre COVID work environment. So, especially if you're an organizational leader out there that wants to have a young team, like the younger leaders of today, their value systems a lot different, you know, and so, if you know, it's more about like, hey, let's do great stuff together, but give me my freedom autonomy.
Speaker 2:And I'm not going to. You know, I'm not going to spend 10, 12, 14 hours a day at an office, and so I would say a lot of the younger leaders, I know they're like man, you can keep your foosball tables and your ping pong and your fancy facilities. Give me clarity on what you want me to do. I'll move your organization forward for you, I'll work hard for you, because they're not lazy, right, but their value systems different. They don't. They don't care about showing up to a brick and mortar spot and you know, and putting in their time and playing at work.
Speaker 1:They want to go to work, then they want to go home and that means the leader has to be all the more intentional about creating culture. It has to be something that matters, and it can't just be integrity and honesty, like those things are great, don't? Get me wrong, but like you've got to drive down further into someone's heart and their motivations to be like what does it really mean to be a part of this team and make it demonstrable inside your organization.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it just circles back to where we started. When you, as a leader, actually care about the people that are working for you, like and if you don't, I mean that's fine, you could just kind of run and run hard and, you know, build something successful, none of this is, you know, I have to do it. But if you're like, no, I actually I care about the people, then you care about what's going on in their lives. You care about you're not trying to create a family at work, you care about their actual family. Right, those are the things that you're you care about.
Speaker 2:And so and I think you can hold both intention I don't think you have to say, well, I'm going to sacrifice. Like, you can still have aggressive goals, you can still work hard, high sense of urgency, all those things. I don't think you're not sacrificing those, because I think the pendulum can swing the other way too, where a lot of leaders feel very trapped, like, well, wait a minute, I'm in here working and doing whatever. No, you can still set clear expectations, clear goals, and I think people, even young leaders, will rise to meet them with clarity. You know, but if you want to create a great culture, you just have to care about the people that you're leading.
Speaker 1:Well, jerry, I was going to ask you to do a rap, but I think that last segment just really I pretty much pulled it up.