The FractionX Podcast
If you use the word "family" to describe your work culture - STOP IT!
Leaders, don't make the mistake of creating this kind of culture. Today we poke the bear and get Drew talking about unhealthy "family culture" we see so often in organizations.
Leaders, don't make the mistake of creating this kind of culture. Today we poke the bear and get Drew talking about unhealthy "family culture" we see so often in organizations.
Drew, how high on your list of values is your personal family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, number. I mean number one. But yeah, number one. Yeah, I mean, I think my relationship with, with God is not number one, because I don't put that on a list. Sure, right, that's central, it's like the wheel.
Speaker 2:And then there's spokes of the wheel. So a lot of people are like God, family, career, whatever. To me it doesn't work that way. Right To me, it was like God, my spirituality is going to be the center of all things. So, but if I'm making a list, providing for my family, showing up for my family, loving my family, that is number one priority.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think today I want to talk a little bit about, there's a trend in organizations to be like hey, we're, we're a family here at this organization and if you work here, you're a part of the family. And so I think I've experienced a couple of things, and I've seen things in coaching, where I just want to caution leaders away from that. So I want to start with a story. I do some I call it career coaching for people who are not senior leaders in the organization, but they're in the middle somewhere and they are looking for advice to how do I talk to my leader about growth and how do I get a raise and how to have more influence and impact and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:And so I was talking to a guy that I'm working with and he was like man, I'm, my leader is just demanding more output. Hey, we've got a new revenue goal for our company. We're going to go up by, you know, 30% this year, yeah. And the guy I'm coaching is like but there's no new staff, right, there's no new resources and I don't get a share of the pie. Yeah, when it's all said and done, it's just, it's just this guy's going to get more money, right, right.
Speaker 1:And I was like hey, you have to understand, um, you're in a business that is all about transactions, yeah, and if you understand that this is a transactional world, it's okay. And I think, as leaders, you know when we're building companies or coaching people who are building companies. I think Gen Z and millennials have looked for purpose and for meaning in their work and my advice is let's be real clear about what we're doing and in that clarity, we'll be really kind that, hey, when you come here, like the meaning you're going to have is probably outside this building, yeah, if you help us with our transactions and our bottom line, it's going to help you build a life outside these four walls that's going to have meaning and purpose.
Speaker 2:I mean, you're poking the bear here for a little bit Like this is hot.
Speaker 2:I think you knew what you're doing, because this is like this could be controversial for some, which I'm fine with, um, but yeah, I mean, I think, at the end of the day, if you are part of an organization that has a bank account, that has goals, you're a transactional organization, right? Most, I won't say all, but most organizations that use the word family, use the word relational, those things it's, in my opinion, it's a, it's a guys that will lead to manipulation, even though we're calling those are words that are used to make employees work nights, weekends, overtime time, tap into the emotional side of what you do, right? So this is what I'm not saying. You can have a transactional organization and care deeply for people like value people like love people well. But if your idea of loving people well is requires them to be at work more, right, like and this is where I get on my soapbox Like I don't want to work for an organization that sets up an environment to encourage me to be at that place more.
Speaker 2:Like I don't want to play ping pong at work. Where do you want to play ping pong? I've got a ping pong table in my bonus room. I want to play ping pong at home with my son. That's good. So don't set up an environment for me to say, hey, this is a culture where we're family, stay here longer, you can play here, you can hang out here. What I want is I want clear expectations. Okay, you're paying me X amount of dollars to do this job and I agree to it because I'm an adult. I'll say, yes, I'll do that job for this amount of money. It's transactional right Now.
Speaker 2:Where we can be kind is in clarity, Like we can be kind to say hey, you know, if you do this job and these are your expectations, guess what you get to keep your job? Yeah, isn't that great. And if you want to have unlimited earning potential, then you got to go. And this is the leader site. You got to go and do what I did, which is you got to go, take a risk. You got to go build something Right. So I was working for a leader one time that said yeah. They said November and December was the best, similar to your story November and December is the best months we've ever had an organization. And I remember thinking to myself no, wasn't not for me. I got paid the same in November and December than we did in August, which that that's fine. That was what I signed up for, right Kudos to my leader for starting something that was making money, and I'm helping him make money, yep. So now I get a choice. Do I want to stay here and help him make more money, because he's doing a lot better for himself and I'm doing the same, which is still a value.
Speaker 2:Some people value consistency and stability, and I can budget off this and I get a paycheck every two weeks or whatever it is. Or are you wired like me that says well, no, I want to go work hard at something and I want to be rewarded as we go. So, again, I'll step down off my soapbox, but I think it's. It's highly dangerous, and I know where this podcast is mostly targeting leaders and entrepreneurs, and so I'll speak to them directly. Be careful using the words relational, calling family and those things, because I bet if you would do a deep dive and audit what you mean by that and what you're going for that and and let's give the benefit of the doubt Maybe it's just like, hey, we want you to feel loved and valued here. Yeah, okay, if that's the case, set clear goals, clear expectations, even incentivize like in our business.
Speaker 2:Now, like the way I have my business, the pay structure set up, yeah, as we bring people on into our marketing business, is that when we win, they win. It's good, unlimited earning potential. That's something that I always wanted. So it's like, yeah, you might have to take a risk. You might not have the stability of something every you know, but as you win, you know you might have the stability of something every you know, but as you win, you help the organization win. So when I win and I'm taking my family on a vacation or I'm doing whatever I'm doing, you are also doing that because we're in it together, right, and there's a lot of transparency there. Now, I know not every business is set up to be able to do that, but the clearer we can be, that is how you treat people with dignity and respect and kindness, and I'm fine to celebrate a leader's successes Like there's nothing wrong with saying, hey, it's probably poor judgment to rub that in your employee's faces, but at the same time, it's like that's what I signed up for.
Speaker 1:So, anyways, I'll step up. Well, no, there was this viral clip that was going around the last couple of weeks and I wish I knew the professor's name. I don't know who it is, but it's a guy, I think, like an economics professor, talking to his class, and I think someone held up their phone and recorded this little thing. He's like, hey, this is the time of the class that I always talk about this and I'm going to get more enjoyment at telling you this than you're going to get hearing this.
Speaker 1:But if you get paid $20 an hour to go work at a job, the person who owns that business is expecting more than $20 an hour of value out of you. If they're going to pay you $20 and you only provide $20 worth of value, they break even. They're not going to do it right. So if you go home feeling like man, I'm not getting paid what I'm worth here, the answer is while you're working for somebody else. Yes, that is probably how you're always going to feel In the system that we have for our economy and the West. It's kind of based on that capitalistic feature that I'm going to bring you in. I'm going to pay you X and I'm going to expect more value than that.
Speaker 1:Now, where people get disillusioned is when they think I'm in purpose work or nonprofit work or whatever it is, and in some of those organizations yeah, that can be the case where you're not providing mathematically or financially disproportionate value to what you're being paid. Like you said, when there's these financial motivations and incentives, if it's a transactional business, you do have to provide more value than you're getting paid. That's the way it works, unfortunately, and the only place I've really seen like the relational culture as a win, or family values as a win is when somebody says, hey, we care about family here, your family, and it's important to us that you leave at five o'clock because we know if you go home invest in your family and your marriage and your kids, you're going to be better here, and so the family we care about is your family, not our work family.
Speaker 2:Well, think about it. I mean so when you say it like that. I mean think about if you were the family of an employee and you were overheard a boss saying, hey, we're family here. Like if, as a spouse or as a child or whatever, I'd be like, well, wait what? Like I thought you're cheating and robbing the actual family from what was meant to be.
Speaker 2:And that's not to say that your teammates like some of the most cherished times of my life was being on a basketball team and being but you know what? That was transactional too. It was like if you don't play good, you get benched. If you play good, you get to play, but you're still a part of a team. Or if you're not good enough, you get cut. I mean, that's like that wasn't unkind. That was what we signed up for. We're here to win. We have got some goals, like whatever, and so I think it's really important.
Speaker 2:And I think just a word of caution to these leaders is, sometimes we see things so black and white, like well, we need to be relational and be kind all the same. Or you got the leaders that just seem like they don't care about their employees and all the stuff. I think there's a way to do both and do it in a way where everyone wins. Like for me, as we're bringing on some salespeople into our business, I think it's important to be. I honestly don't care. Like, say we. I'm just giving some hypotheticals. We'll say the salesperson is responsible for bringing in 10 clients a month. Let's just use that number. If I have a salesperson who is smart enough to find 10 clients for that month and they do it in one day, I legitimately don't care if they take the month off the rest of month off.
Speaker 2:I don't care because they are holding up the agreement that we set on. Now I might reevaluate and say, hey, I'm going to, I'm going to change, like I've set the bar too low or whatever else. Or I might say, man, you're killing it for me. You're bringing in all these clients, you're making good money. I don't care if you're bringing in clients and you're living in Paris, I don't care if you're on the beach on your laptop, because the way I can care for that person is saying, hey, as long as you're hitting this, and I'm happy with this, and I actually want to be a good leader and care for you, because I at that point I could be abusive and raise the number and make them work tons and just be.
Speaker 2:Or this is where kindness comes in. It's like no, that's what we agreed to, that's great. So I can be kind to you and just continue to do it and now go play golf the rest of the month, whatever. That's literally my mindset, because that's how I want to be treated. I want to be treated with dignity, respect. I want to feel like an owner in what I'm doing. I want to feel like when I win, you win, we all win, you know. So there's ways to set the business up that way and I know I'm being redundant at this point, but I just I'm very passionate because this is where burnout abuses and I, man, listen, I've been this leader, I've been the leader that's been.
Speaker 2:We're like a family and let's you know, and if I think, if I would really do it an audit, a lot of that was to get people's buy-in into what we're doing, like I need you to buy into what's happening here and I need you to like really be. Are you all in with this? Are you really going? And I'm like man, there's so much I would go back and do different, but at the end of the day, I think I would have really locked in on the clarity as to what I expect. And, depending on where you're at in the organization, you may not have the freedom, like you got, to follow the cultural norms of the organization, right? So if you're middle management or even executive leadership and you're not able to change the cultural norms of organization, you may have to play by the rules of that organization. I get that, um, but there's definitely a way to be both transactional and relational and doing a way that actually cares for the wholeness of the person you're leading.
Speaker 1:That's so good. If this is us poking the bear, then we should poke the bear more often. Appreciate that insight, drew. This was really helpful. Thanks a ton.