The FractionX Podcast
Does your leader impact your mental health? A new study says that's true, but it doesn't have to be.
For good and for bad, leaders (employers) have huge influence on the people they lead. AND, as employees it's imperative we don't give away more of our emotional and mental health than we have to, even as we contribute at high levels in our jobs. Today Drew and Matt talk about redefining our relationship with work so we can live healthier lives.
For good and for bad, leaders (employers) have huge influence on the people they lead. AND, as employees it's imperative we don't give away more of our emotional and mental health than we have to, even as we contribute at high levels in our jobs. Today Drew and Matt talk about redefining our relationship with work so we can live healthier lives.
So, Drew, last week I think we ruffled some feathers with the conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's like your new goal, starting to get me all worked up on something I think.
Speaker 1:I like poking the bear, as you said last week.
Speaker 2:And what's crazy is you just sit back and let me get us in trouble.
Speaker 1:I like it when fraction X gets in trouble.
Speaker 2:My disclaimer is I've got six months to go back and disagree with it. That's right.
Speaker 1:That's fair. Somebody that listens to the podcast sent me this clip and the guy was saying a new study has revealed that your manager has more impact on your mental health than your doctor, your family or anything else in your life. Yeah, and it kind of stuck with me. I sent it to you and I think it's a big statement for a lot of reasons and I actually want to talk about why in the world would that be the case? Yeah, so what did you? What did you think when you saw that?
Speaker 2:Well, I actually had a lot come up for me when you sent that over, because I feel like I'm somewhere in the middle. Okay, because I agree, I agree with that and I hate that. I agree with that, right. Like I feel like, I feel like that's been true for me and I've also feel like why did I give my manager so much power over me, right? So it's like I think it's true, I think, but I don't think it has to be true.
Speaker 2:I just think we're wired, especially in America, where our work and our jobs and our identity is so intertwined that, for whatever reason at work and at our job because it goes back to last week we throw around calling and we throw around all these big words around. So it's like it becomes so core to who we are that that person who's in leadership over us in an organization really holds all the cards in some ways for our mental health. That impacts our families. Well, first of all impacts our physical health, our emotional health, mental health. Then it impacts our family, all the things we would say are the most important things to us. This one person at work usually one person at work holds the keys to our contentment and our peace and I was like that's messed up and outside of maybe a handful of legitimate psychopaths.
Speaker 1:I don't think most managers know that's the case, because they're dealing with their own stuff, exactly right, you know. And if it's in the middle of the organization, they've got leadership, or if they're at the top of the organization, they've got the board, or they've got shareholders or something that's above them. So they don't think how is my leadership? How's my decisions? How is that impacting the people I lead? It's just not top of mind for them. Again, they're probably a handful of very small handful of people that are really like I'm going to take advantage of this, and most people are well-meaning, Exactly Like even the managers in the past that I've worked for.
Speaker 2:Leaders I've worked for in the past that have really done damage quote unquote to my mental health. Or I would say let me rephrase that that I've allowed to do that. They're great people. Like they weren't, like hey, let me see if I can destroy Drew and his whole life and his world and everything else. They're just trying to figure it out and they're trying to make they're not deceitful, they're not whatever. It's like you know. And so, to your point, I'm going to a lot of grace for leaders. I need grip man, I've been that guy, yeah, you know, probably more often than not where things I've done, decisions I've made, has caused great impact on the people that I was leading. Right, and so this is not here to tear down the managers. Maybe bring some awareness. Like, hey, we, we actually can make a difference in the lives of people that we're leading. But more so for those of us to set boundaries to where like.
Speaker 2:If that's true, ask ourselves why and I think also, when you were talking a minute ago, just get on my soapbox. We've, we've got to stop using words like toxic, so much, Okay, Why's that? Well, I just think it's been a buzzword Like and I think we end up using toxic whenever there's a leader organization that does something that we don't want them to do, Instead of just saying, hey, they're going a different direction or a different path, or I don't like that decision. It's so easily concerned to well, this is a toxic organization, or this is a toxic leader or this, I'm like most of the time no, it's not, you just don't like where it's going, Sure. And so because you don't like it and because you're getting your, you know you're getting upset about the direction or how that impacts your life or your family, or because you're so ingrained into you know, personally into this, this organization.
Speaker 1:You're so invested?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're so invested, then all of a sudden it's like, if it's something I disagree with, all of a sudden this person or this organization is toxic. Most likely, what you need to do is just take ownership over, like hey, maybe I'm not aligned with the mission or vision right now and Allow yourself. Give yourself the freedom to go do something else. That's right. You don't have to stay there, you know. And so again, I know that soap boxy and I'm really curious because I feel like you, matt, have been able to Like you're way more consistent than I've been like.
Speaker 1:I feel like I've been the type of person that can ride that emotional wave of Like I'm preaching to myself, you know, right now, no, I mean you're kind of say that, but no, I think I've made just as many leadership failures as anybody else has with a track record like mine. You know, when I saw that clip I think I thought two things. One is like you talked about for the managers out there. Do you understand that you've got a disproportionate impact on the people you lead, right you? There is a power dynamic at play just because a lot of times you control a salary or someone's employment. So there's just this, this tension in a relationship, right that someone can make a decision that affects your fire someone.
Speaker 2:That relationship, right Right there has a tension, right you know and that's not gonna go away.
Speaker 1:No, I actually don't think. When I saw the clip I was like, hey, we got to solve management and leadership. No, I do think case Moment of self-awareness, like we've talked about on the podcast a lot you do lead people that you can impact. So if you can impact them for the positive right and that's a different podcast on some level to talk about that what I really thought was man, we have to really rearrange our relationship with work. Like if my mental health can be completely Derailed by someone who's my leader, who, like you said, is probably not making a toxic decision, they're just making something they think is best for the organization. So maybe it's more work, maybe it's more output, maybe it's more engagement. They're asking for maybe something more and you're like, oh, that's killing my mental health. Well, maybe you've got an unhealthy relationship with work in the first place.
Speaker 1:And so, again, I know this is a really like tense subject and for me it's like we do get so much purpose, we get so much meaning, we get satisfaction out of using the gifts. We have to make a difference in the world. You know, not everybody does purpose work. Some people just, you know, sell widgets and they just ended so widgets to provide for their family. But even that is a useful, purposeful thing. I'm using what I have my time and my resources, my gifts to provide a service for a company. In return, they pay me a salary that I can, yeah, have food, shelter and provide for my family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I know there's gonna be always this kind of tension around the relationship, but when you give so much power to an organization that a bad manager is messing up your mental health, maybe you should have this internal dialogue of like okay, if my power is mine to give to somebody, right, is it also mine to give? Like, bring it back Right and have more control over my emotions and my energy and say I'm gonna draw a line here at work. Like I'm gonna do my best, I'm gonna do a great job. Yeah, as long as I'm not asking me to do anything illegal or unethical, I can draw a line and not put my emotions into this the way that it would damage my mental health. Now, maybe that's easier said than done. It's probably easier for me to do it than other people.
Speaker 1:But I would say don't give your power to a place like that, and if it's at a point where you can't manage it. You're like this person is absolutely wrecking my mental health. Leave. Yeah, they're, get out, they're help wanted signs and every other building down the street and I get like some industries are tough to move in and out. Of. You may have to, like leave a city and that, trust me, I know that's a very difficult decision, right, but at the end of the day, don't give away something so significant like the how sacred mental health is, because that affects you, it affects your family, it affects everything about your life.
Speaker 2:Well, absolutely, and even just to go back a little bit that I want to be clear and say there are Definitely toxic environments and toxic leaders, right and to your point.
Speaker 2:When that, when that happens, when it's actually deadly and destructive To you, your family, whatever, absolutely, you've got to not have a scarcity mindset, you got to leave, you got to go right. So I want to be clear that I'm not saying that that doesn't exist. But, as you were talking just now, you know, I think part of the issue is Money, and finances are such a major source of stress and anxiety in most people's lives, right? So, as most people, it's like you know. And so I think, at the end of the day, it's you know, and I've been part of the organizations who attract people because of purpose and calling, and then most people who have left my team have left because they're like, listen, I'm tired of struggling financially, financially, yeah, and I'm like, yeah, I gotta bless you for that and I can go do that, right. And so I think a lot of the reasons why even we're having this conversation and there's so much identity wrapped up in work and why it can impact our mental health is because it impacts our money.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And because money for a lot of us and I'll put myself if I'm not careful finances and money will be the thing that is center in my life, the thing I mean I've got a family, I've got like, when you mess with my money and my provision and everything else, or I have to make decisions that put me in a financial unknown, that can put me in a mental health crisis immediately, and so here we are making money, kind of the Lord of our life, if you will right, which is understandable. It makes sense as to why the person who can impact that livelihood is the person who caused us the most stress, because what that actually means, when you say just leave, it's like, well, great, that sounds great, but how do I provide? And so I just think it's a reframing. Like you said, there is a deep work that has to be done around this idea of do I trust that the universe, your higher power, whatever you would say that God is actually kind, is actually a provider, that good things like what is my philosophical belief about the world? That good things come my way, that I can make hard decisions that are right, based on values, and those will be rewarded in whatever like cosmic ecosystem that we believe in.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. So I think most of us, including myself, live with a scarcity mindset, live around. If I draw boundary here, then I'm gonna really be screwed or I'm really struggle. Well, what I've found just recently, in the last few years, for me personally, is that on the other side of very difficult decisions are good things. We don't have to live with a scarcity mindset. So this is a long winded me just saying I get it like it's super tough. It's super tough to make those decisions and it makes sense why a leader can have so much influence over your mental health. But I think back to your point and you always say things shorter and better.
Speaker 2:I'm long winded to get to my point but I do think that you know us reframing our relationship with work, like going back to that clip.
Speaker 1:I think if we draw boundaries over what we value and who we are as individuals, we don't have to allow that statistic to be true right, yeah, and I think my last thing because we do always wanna keep this short, like we talk about is, if you're a person who feels like you are the person whose mental health is being impacted. My number one thing before you make any other decision, before you put your resume on LinkedIn, is get perspective first. A lot of times, when you can see the situation for what it is, things get clear and if you ever travel to third world countries, you can see there's not an association with resources and happiness and satisfaction. That is a uniquely kind of American Western culture value where, if I have resources, I can be content, and cultures after cultures and places where there are little to no resources.
Speaker 1:People are so satisfied and I'm not saying life is easy there, but I think perspective will show you that man, maybe things won't be quite as bad as I think they are, but when we are holding our job and our finances this close to our face, you just can't see what's really out there and it's like, okay, climb up a mountain, get some time away and try to see life for what it really is and I guarantee you taking a 10 or 20 or 30% pay drop to switch industries or to move cities would be a trade you'd make over and, over and over again to have what feels like a healthy life back. Good stuff, man. Thanks, man, yeah.