The FractionX Podcast
The patient leader vs. the action-biased leader. Knowing when to act and when to wait
Have you ever been at a crossroads, wondering whether to take a bold step forward or patiently wait for the right moment? Our latest podcast episode, Matt and Drew talk about the pace of leadership and why you need both a gas and brake pedal to lead effectively.
Have you ever been at a crossroads, wondering whether to take a bold step forward or patiently wait for the right moment? Our latest podcast episode, Matt and Drew talk about the pace of leadership and why you need both a gas and brake pedal to lead effectively.
How do we look during?
Speaker 2:I went back with the black jacket. Today I did too.
Speaker 1:I like it.
Speaker 2:I, for me, I felt like it was slimming. There's a Nat in the room, so we got to. We have a question for our podcast. One of our devoted listeners, chris Nichols, former teammate of ours. Honestly, we could probably do a whole podcast on Nichols leadership.
Speaker 1:The greatness, oh, the greatness, oh, the faux pas.
Speaker 2:Oh man, Nichols adds One of my favorite Chris Nichols lines. We were in a meeting and he said it's serious, Like this was not a joke. He said something to the effect of there's many different decisions or many different paths we could take and I think they're all be successful. That wraps Nichols up in a like the confidence of the eternal optimist.
Speaker 2:And we're like coming to a hard decision, Like, well, there's four routes we can go and I think we'll be successful at all of them and I'm sitting here thinking I think all of them will fail. No, we love Chris. We miss him. He's doing amazing work up in Chicago now. And really happy to see him thrive and, yeah, he's crushing it up there. We're going to go visit him, but we got to wait for it to be summer. Yeah, not going to, but he did give us a topic that I thought was really interesting.
Speaker 1:He said man, I'd be curious for you guys to talk about the action bias leader versus the wait and see leader. Yeah, like, when does a leadership situation cause for patience and discernment and when does it cause and call?
Speaker 2:for action. I think he was just teeing us up because he knows that we don't know the answer to this, because we're both gaction pedal action Right.
Speaker 2:I mean, I struggle with this Because I want to go fast at all times, and you want to go fast, if not faster. So making decisions at the right pace has always been a challenge for me, so I'm going to defer this, I'm going to let you go. First I'll do some color commentary, but I felt like I've watched you discipline yourself, even though you've got a gas pedal to not always have to.
Speaker 1:I'll return the favor at some point, but yeah, you've got a way that this works for you as well. So I will say that a lot of people confuse activity with progress, and that is not what we're talking about. So some people just get in the flurry of I'm just going to do a bunch of stuff and hope it works. Ouch, I feel better because I did some busy work today and I cleaned up my office and I did this and this. I was like, well, I actually didn't move you closer to what you wanted to do. That's so good. But yeah, just a really talented leader, you know, uses an algae, and I heard it one time he said you know, anytime you're in leadership, it's like getting dropped in a cave with a lantern that shows you one step, and the only way to see the next step is to take the next step. So the only way that you get the bigger picture, the only way you make progress and move forward, is to start taking steps, and the little light that you do have as a leader illuminates the next step. And if you just stand there and wait and hope that the cave gets brighter on its own, you're going to be sitting there for a long time Now.
Speaker 1:I do think situations call for clarity and discernment and wisdom. When it's super complex, hey, if we do anything right now and it's the wrong step, it could take us backwards. So before we, just Because we're action bias and want to see progress, just make a move. I call it the ready fire aim and I can just see this guy going up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, never cited the target in, right, but it's. I had to get a chamber out. You know how to fire a bullet, I go. No, there are times where it's so complex you do need discernment, wisdom patients.
Speaker 1:Yeah but I think more of us are. This goes back to the fear episode. More of us are like the fear of failure Paralysis us to not do something than to do something. So I think I'd probably build this and do like a category of activity versus patients. There are things that if you were active on Can be really consequential and detrimental, and there's probably a middle category of things that you can be active on that it's not really gonna Hurt you much and it's not gonna really make a ton of progress if you do get active on it.
Speaker 1:There's probably category of items and tasks and leadership decisions you can make that if, if you're patient on that's where it would actually hurt. You is like, hey, we can't sit around and allow this to fester and stew anymore. We have to do something about this. Yeah, so I think, when it comes to the challenges you have in front of you, put them in categories and properly saying not every decision is the same type of decision. Not every activity is the same type of activity. Let's put this in a category we can decide hey, do we need to wait and see on this or no, do we need to make action, step and do something right now on it?
Speaker 2:That's really good. I mean, as you're thinking the categories to, I'll think about, like even you've heard before, important versus urgent.
Speaker 2:Yes that's another category. You can kind of put things in like this might be important but it's not urgent, like you know. But I think you know, to be able to, to move in action or even change at the pace of relationships is important, and so I would even say it depends sometimes, yeah, on the relationships that you have on the team, especially if you're coming into a role where You're expected to make some changes, like I would probably ask myself, like Some really important questions like is the, is the team that I have or I'm working on, like how important are they to me? It's good versus like sometimes there's, there's organizations that it's mission critical that changes are made immediately because it's on the brink of bankruptcy or failure or whatever it is. You don't really have time to build relationships at that point. You, you earn trust and respect by making the necessary changes. So you, you're getting back on the right track and healthy again.
Speaker 2:I've got a client right now where that they're doing that internally and I'm watching it from more of a Consulting. It's all in the seat, but I'm watching this guy come in and he hadn't. He had meetings with everybody. He he did do a little bit of relational work, but he pretty much came in and made some changes immediately. But he had to and I'm watching. This is probably six, nine months later. I'm watching the organization. It's healthier now, there's cash flow and there's things happening. So now it's like oh, we see why he had to do that. But that was a different situation because at that point he was not worried about protecting people's staff roles or anything like that. He was just like I'll clean house if I need to, right.
Speaker 2:On the other hand, there's sometimes where you step in a situation that needs change. But you have to. You have to care for the team first. You have to build relationships with the team and this whole idea of you know change at the at the pace of relationships. Sometimes you've got to wait longer than what you prefer to build the trust, have a relationship. No, people, that people. You care for the people before you start throttling down on on changes, which is tough. That's really for me. It's hard to. I'm a relational person, but I don't understand why everyone just can't get on board. Let's just go go, because I love change. I change things when they don't need to be. I just love just for change sake. Yeah, so it's like it's hard for me to understand people who don't like change. It was really confusing for me, but there are people that, even if it's for their benefit, are really resistant to that's right.
Speaker 1:Well, I think what probably happens more often than not is when a decision or a product needs to happen Quickly. You know, people are patient and wait and see, and so they get it wrong. And then sometimes we're A leader needs to be patient and needs to be wait and see. They move quickly. I think we probably make the mistake more often when the situation calls for the opposite. So let me put it this way I was interviewing a leader with another leader. We're trying to decide if it's going to be a good fit for the team, and we were having this conversation about gas and break like hey, as a leader, if you could say, man, I'm more of a foot on the brake leader, I'm more of a foot on the gas leader. Where are you? And he kind of told a story about a product launch. He goes, man.
Speaker 1:Early in my career I was really passionate about perfectionism. Like I want our product to be perfect when we launched it to the public. I want it to be like so undeniable that people are like this is an incredible product. And then he goes. I've worked at this organization for nine or 10 years and we just launched something that, in my opinion, was not ready to be launched. The product wasn't perfect, the marketing wasn't perfect, but they knew, gosh, if we didn't get this product out now, we're never going to get it out. So he goes.
Speaker 1:I've just kind of matured to the point where it's like I don't need perfection to be my mark before we release a product. And you know, I do think perfectionism, when it comes to decisions, is the. You know, it's like the great being the enemy of good. It's like we're going to wait around until this is exactly right and it's like, well, you're never going to get it launched if you're waiting that way. So that in that situation I go action bias is what you want to be, because it's I'm not saying push a baby, you know, out of the nest before they're ready to fly. You need to be smart and strategic, but if you've considered the strategy and the consequences upside and downside, do stuff before you're ready to do it, because it's going to make you sharper in those moments.
Speaker 2:Well, I think, too, a big reason why fraction X exists is and we do this in our on, our strategic off sites as well we, we, we work on culture a little bit like understanding who's at the table and understanding who you have on the team. That is going to be more of the breaks and he's going to be more of the gas, and it's why, for me, it's absolutely necessary for me to live and lead in consultation, because nine times out of 10, and that's given myself grace I'm probably 10 out of 10. I'm going to move quicker, a little quicker than what needs to, what's appropriate, right, cause I'm excited about something I haven't thought it like, I just had the idea. Now I want to go run and execute it. I want to get, and then I like, then I sort of think, oh, here's why it doesn't work.
Speaker 2:Like, and as frustrating as that can be for me, who's like an all gas type of guy, I have to have people around the table with me that are helping me think through all the different things that I didn't take in consideration.
Speaker 2:I'm just thinking about the big picture of the end result. I'm not thinking about the million different things that has to happen to get from where I'm at right now to where I want to be, and I have to have those people on team. So part of what fraction X, what we love to do is not just unpack culture at these strategic offsides, like hey, understand who's at the table, but also help be that team, like be the team that you can bring in to say, hey, here's a decision I'm thinking about making. Will you help me? I want to live in consultation with other leaders. Help me think through what are the impacts of this, and we can either be the guys that push you out of the nest or we can be the guys that hold back the reins a little bit and say wait a minute, I think you're getting a little too out in front of yourself.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I think situation dependent, like if there is product launch, we can talk about that. But there's other situations where all gas and no break is not advised. And I think you talked about like when a leader comes into a situation so maybe they've been brought in as a change engine. So it's like, hey, things are not going well here, can you come in and help us make sense of this? So a leader comes in and you know we've heard really good advice and wisdom from other leaders it's like, hey, when you get into a new organization, maybe there's been some crisis in the organization, maybe things have not gone well.
Speaker 1:Before you make any moves, before you move the chess pieces, just sit and watch, don't make a lot of changes just yet. See, okay, let's just let me evaluate what's going on here and that evaluation period. You know five years is way too much, ten years maybe a little too much, but One month is not enough either. So there's probably some wisdom and discernment saying when I get into a new situation, I'm not going to be action biased, to like change out the team, do new products, do new website, all that stuff.
Speaker 1:It's like no, let's see what we have here first. And obviously there's financial pressures if a company's not doing well and you gosh, we got to cut some weight and we got to move forward, we got to get the P&L looking right. Those things determine and direct those decisions. But I think, all things being equal, if you've got time, assess what's going on. So, before you put your foot on the gas, slow down, talk to people who have been in the organization for a long time. Tell me how we got here, like, tell me your story. Like, what do you love about working here? What's been the tough part by this last season? And try to understand what's going on in that organization before you start to make a lot of detrimental decisions.
Speaker 2:And I would say, a majority of the time, what you just said is the case. Yeah, that's the that's the more often than not, what you're coming in to do is not it's not critical Like you need to come in and you need to have a lot of coffees and lunches and one-on-ones and hear people's stories and you know, really get to know and care and love the people and then start, you know, to observe, to watch all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:And then I would say so I think probably eight out of 10 times that's the case Like that's what needs to happen. Go going slower, you're going to have time to throttle down at some point, but but now you'll have people, they'll have your back, they'll be on board with it. Right, you start having those conversations. The next thing I would say is when it is time to spring into action. I think it's. It's imperative, as much as you possibly can, to let your team and let your people know where you're going and why. And the last thing you want to do is to be a leader that is holding the cards too close to their, their chest right, A leader that has a secret playbook but they're not letting people know what it is.
Speaker 2:No, and I we talked about this before in an earlier episode there's times where it's not appropriate yet to let people know where they're at, but at the same time, when it is time to make some changes, I would say get up and clearly communicate where you're going, the why behind it, what you need from these people you know. Give them. Give them the opportunity to be adults and to self-select whether or not they want to be on board. They want to go do something else. I mean, I think if you treat people with that kind of respect, they'll in return, and you don't have to make it emotional. It's just like, hey, here's some changes that have to be made, here's why they're going to be made, here's what I need from you in this. There's some goals based on that, and now let them self-select.
Speaker 1:Well, back to the analogy of a car Like. That's so good, drew, what you just said. Thank you for saying that you have a gas and a break, right. It requires both to be a healthy system, right. The car works, it operates best when you've got a gas and a break.
Speaker 1:And so I think, two words for every leader to grow, to become better at knowing when do I apply gas, when do I apply brakes. You know, a car is not meant to stay in a parking space, it is meant to be activated and going somewhere. It has a direction, it has a point, it is taking its passengers somewhere. Every good organization, every good leader is taking some places from somebody from point A to point B. So the gas is probably most appropriate most of the time, but the healthy amount of break to get around curves, to get downhills, all that other stuff, right. So I think my leaning towards action, my leanings towards like, let's make activity happen, is because we need to take people from point A to point B.
Speaker 1:But two words I think every leader needs to grow in it's wisdom and courage. It's for people who are just like man my foot's on the gas all the time I've got to grow on my wisdom to know when to let off the accelerator and pump the brakes a little bit. And for people whose foot is just on the brake and they're scared to get going, you've got to find some courage, and I think the best leaders If they're so courageous that they can't ever think about slowing down. Find an operator, a number two, someone who can be your brakes right higher for your weakness. If you're a person whose foot's on the brakes and you're not sure what to do, put someone around you who's a gas pedal leader. We got to go, let's go, let's get going. And so, even if you can't find that balance in yourself, put the balance around your table.
Speaker 2:I really don't hardly want to add to that because I think that's great wisdom and courage. But I do want to follow up with one quick question for the leaders listening what are some tools that you found that help you know whether you're a gas like? Maybe you instinctively know, but are there tools that leaders can use to kind of know where they're at on that, on that gas brake spectrum?
Speaker 1:And so I would say it's seasonal. So for me, I'm a gas leader, but when things get unclear, my anxiety rises. I'm not sure what I should do next. I become more brake than I'm like, healthy and comfortable with, and so I think it's recognizing in yourself like I've got a bias. I would prefer to make things happen rather than sit back and watch. That's going to be pretty obvious for most leaders. But I think no one's brakes all the time and no one's gas all the time, and I think the circumstances really dictate that for me. Like I said.
Speaker 1:But growing in courage is sometimes you have to ask people like hey, will you hold me accountable to this? I've got to make more courageous decisions in my life. I need more discipline. I need to get out of bed every day and go, fight and kill and bring something back to the cave and feed and provide for my family. I need some help to be more courageous to make those decisions, and I think someone who's you know needs more patience and needs to slow down on her life needs accountability for that too. Like, hey, will you help me? Like I'm making decisions so fast that I can't even implement the last one I just decided Exactly. Will you slow me down enough so that I can be thorough? Yes, I can be, you know, complete and actually get something across the finish line.
Speaker 2:I love that wisdom and courage and I think even discernment as a leader in your instincts, your gut instincts we talked about this on a previous episode that your gut as a leader. You don't have to feel pressure for your gut to be right all the time. You know, and I think just to reiterate what you said, have people around you that you're bouncing this stuff off of, don't feel pressure to be. Have these great instincts as a leader and you've got to rely on those alone. Trust, you know you trust them, but it bouts off. But I love that man. I think that's probably a great place to wrap. I've got one more thing.
Speaker 1:Do you, okay, bring it. Be like Chris Nichols, be the eternal optimist and send us your questions for episodes.
Speaker 2:Honestly, we did appreciate that. First of all, we appreciate them listening, but then also giving us a topic and, yeah, be like Chris Nichols Maybe we'll have them on one day. We'll see what would that be like Intense, I would all. I would spend the whole episode trying to get you guys into some sort of debate or argument.
Speaker 1:That would be do it. It would be that hard.
Speaker 2:All right, thanks for that.