The FractionX Podcast
Are these the best tools for leadership?
There are hundreds, if not thousands, of great leadership and business books. But if you're new to business and leadership, you may not know where to start. On this episode Matt and Drew take a high level look at several of their favorite resources that every leader needs at their disposal.
There are hundreds, if not thousands, of great leadership and business books. But if you're new to business and leadership, you may not know where to start. On this episode Matt and Drew take a high level look at several of their favorite resources that every leader needs at their disposal.
so, matt, you got a.
Speaker 1:You got a pile of books in front of your pal yeah, I grabbed him at a nickel and dime store on the way over here little light reading.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want to introduce you to a little thing called the kindle. Yeah, you can carry them all in one little device. What so? These are some of the books that you and I have used through the years, and we talked to a lot of owner operators. Yeah, and explain kind of the idea behind this podcast episode, because we're trying to, we're trying to create an episode that might be helpful to these guys that are working with their business every day.
Speaker 1:Well, I think there's probably two groups of people that I'd love to give some value to from this conversation today. One is you know, we talk to owners and operators. We coach owners and operators who they may not have gone to business school and they don't have an MBA. They're good at the trade. They have architects, construction people, landscaping, cleaners I mean, you name it, whatever trade it is and they're good at it. They started a business, so they've got a great brain for a product or a service and then, all of a sudden, they find themselves in the seat of oh man, I'm actually running a business now. I've got a staff, I've got a payroll, I've got expenses, I've got a profit and loss statement. Oh man, what do I do with all this? So there's that camp.
Speaker 1:And then there's other people who are. Maybe they find themselves with point leaders and maybe they didn't start the company, but they're leading at a high level in a company and they're like man, I'm just constantly overwhelmed. There's stress and pressure and I just don't know if I've got all the tools that I need to lead at the level that I'm at. And that's great. That feeling is pretty normal. That kind of imposter syndrome and I'm not saying reading books is the answer, but I am saying being exposed to some ideas that are kind of further down the road than you are can shape and change leadership in a really good way. So I brought just a couple of the books that have shaped me over the last, you know, probably 15 or 20 years of leadership.
Speaker 1:And you know some of these books are frameworks in and of themselves and I think that's what a lot of people lack as a framework to run their business, and some of them are more self-discovery tools. Like we talk a lot about self-awareness on this podcast. Some people are like, hey, how do I grow in self-awareness? Well, one of the ways are through some of these books. So I think today's kind of like is there a shortcut for business leaders, owners, operators and point leaders to maybe find a tool that they need right now. Like we've talked a lot about like we're in the middle of this you know business year and if you run, you know your year, kind of you know January 1st to December 31st and you may not be hitting all the goals you want to hit. We've talked about masterminds to kind of help through that. Maybe just a new idea could help somebody.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that's what this pile of books about. Well, or whatever, but it is this leadership industry. It's so overwhelming, there's so many great resources out there it's hard to know where to start. And you're exactly right. These owner operators and we talk about this all the time where probably people get sick of it, but they're working in their business so much that you know we've talked to them where they're just like I don't have time to have time to work on it, but I'm just in it trying to make it and I and I get it. Don miller will talk through one of his books here in a minute, but I just recently heard him say that about 50 you need to be working on marketing and all that kind of stuff and 50 working in and I most owner operators are nowhere close to that percentage.
Speaker 1:if you get five 5%, you feel like you're winning Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or at all right If you're working on it at all, which is why we do the off sites and the masterminds and all these things, to just give you an intentional space to work on it. So we'll just start at the top StrengthsFinder. I love the StrengthsFinder tool. Tell me a little bit about StrengthsFinder, how you've used that one in the past.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'd love you to jump in as well. So for me, strengthsfinders was one of those early tools in my leadership that I realized oh, everyone's not wired like me. You know, when you're a young leader or a young person, you just your worldview and your perspective on how things work. Maybe I'm just an ignorant idiot. I just thought, oh, everybody probably thinks this way, everybody has probably had the experiences I have. And you go no, not everybody's wired the same.
Speaker 1:And so what this book does is it kind of says hey, if you take this test I don't know, it probably takes less than 20 minutes to do we're going to highlight the top five strengths that you have, and I think it's out of about 32. You have to forgive me, I don't have these memorized. I've got them kind of like codified it in my brain, and so it'll say hey, look, here's five gifts you really have, um, that we think are pretty significant, you know, and I'll read a couple of them so you can kind of get the idea. But it's like you may have the, the, the gift of achiever activator. You might be adaptable, you might be analytical, you might be an arranger, you might have high belief, you might be have command, communication, competition, connectedness, so on and so forth.
Speaker 1:Right, and there's, I think I said like 31 or 32 of these strategic woo, significant self-assurance, and so, um, this tool was great for me to discover I've got gifts that not everybody else around the table has. They're not a moral judgment, they're not a good or a bad thing, and if you don't have a gift, it doesn't disqualify you from leadership, and I think what it really does in team leadership it goes oh there's some things that I don't have in me, that I need around the table, yeah, and so, do you even remember what your strengths are I think mine came up, just said NA.
Speaker 2:No, I, I woo and communication is always up in there.
Speaker 2:The thing about StrengthsFinder is it can change a little bit based on the season of leadership you're in right, not not tons, like it won't change tons, and I would recommend going ahead and paying for the full version that shows you all of them, not just your top five, because I think seeing my bottom five was actually really helpful in team leadership to know who do I need around me. I remember we were on a team together and we did this exercise as a team and charted it, and there's actually consultants that will come in and lead you through this exercise. I found it to be very helpful because it was great to look across the table and be like, oh, you have this strength so I should bring you in on these type moments, you know. And so, yeah, I think, woo Communication I forget some of the other ones I had in there, but it's-.
Speaker 2:Generalized awesomeness or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, general badass was on one there. What yours? You gotta be on there somewhere, right? I think it's top 10, you know, like you said, they change from season to season. A little bit strategic maybe, yeah, so strategic command self-assurance um activator or like uh, maybe maximize or something like that, yeah, I like to get every penny out of every dollar I spend, you know yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, can we? Can we transition that one? So this, these are strengths, but I'm looking at the bottom of your pile. There and you've got this to some people is a really dirty word. Enneagram oh gosh, the wisdom of the Enneagram. This is a tool that you and I have used since we're kind of on the self-aware and self-discovery team culture leadership category. Talk about the Enneagram. How have you used that? How's it been helpful?
Speaker 1:an eyeopening tool, like I love StrengthsFinder and I love being able to see some of those things. Nothing really got to the core of who I am, the way the Enneagram was able to describe, and it's a personality type book. Apparently it's been around for a really long time and its origins are a little bit murky and some people think it's mystical. I don't think it is. I just think it's a tool like any other tool that is sitting in front of me, and so for me, what it really did is it identified core motivations, some things that really I might be afraid of that motivate me positively and negatively, and it also allowed me just to understand a little bit more about how I was wired and it gave me a tool to also understand my wife better and maybe understand my teammates better, and it's been significantly tremendously helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's another book. The Wisdom of the Enneagram is great. It's a little more of a deeper dive.
Speaker 1:This is like academic more than applicable yeah.
Speaker 2:Ian Crone wrote a book called the Road Back to you, which is a great first step into that.
Speaker 2:But even Ian said that hey, this is just a tool and if it even just makes you 10% better, treat it as that. So I percent better treat as that. So I think a lot of the times with enneagram the problem that people have is when they use it as a too much of a descriptor, like. There's a therapist friend of me that won't even let me say any more than I'm an enneagram seven. Okay, he says you show up as an enneagram seven. It's just a little bit of a you know distinguishes between you, know who I am and all this stuff. But you nailed it. The motivations, um, is what is kind of to me the differentiator between that and the strengths finder. Sure, I like those two as a compliment to one another. In the working genius as well it's a compliment. But those two together are really powerful tool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially, I would say, for me, because I would always toggle back and forth between am I a seven or my three. You know, because I've got a lot of achiever in me and I would always toggle back and forth between am I a seven or my three. You know, because I've got a lot of achiever in me and I've got. But the growth and stress for me is what really nailed me as showing up as a seven, because I'm like man, that is so true. When I'm stressed I go to that unhealthy one and micromanage and all that stuff. When I'm healthy, I'm alone somewhere, you know in nature, reading a book. Showing up as a healthier five yeah, um.
Speaker 2:And then, like you said, leading a team, like there was a period of time where you were my leader and I think you, understanding my wiring as a seven, helped you be a great leader for me, because you would lead to, to my motivations, my personality, my spontaneity, yeah, um, and so it really helps you. And the last thing I'll say, cause I am an Enneagram fan, it's just been just cause it's been helpful. If you're leading a team, it's going to help you with a lot of interpersonal conflict, because I remember I had a three on my team and a one on my team that just never could get along until they had to understand that the one cares about how we get there and the three just cares about how it looks when we get there. That the one cares about how we get there and the three just cares about how it looks when we get there, that's good, and so until the two great leaders they just have, they just come at it from different angles, right so?
Speaker 1:well, I do use some technology when I read and I'm an audible person, so I didn't want to just show my audible list to the viewers.
Speaker 1:But you, you mentioned working genius, and so what's great about that? Is it kind of is so strength. Strength finders is fantastic, enneagram is fantastic. They don't necessarily give you like a working tool or framework you can use in your organization the way the working genius can. So once these self-discovery tools turn into frameworks, that's when they can get really helpful. And so I've got this five dysfunctions a team and we'll talk about that in a second. But more I wanted to highlight you know, pat Lencioni is just a fantastic, you know, visionary leadership writer, talks really practical stuff and, um, that working genius tool is really helpful. I think any organization that like has processes, like maybe project management, where they specialize, or bringing something you know from inception to delivering a product for a client, that tool and that framework is super helpful as well. We we've used that before in previous organizations. Anything on working genius before we move on.
Speaker 2:No, I it's, it's similar, it just gives some new language. Um, it's that one's a newer one for me that I've used personally, but I don't know that I've used it in a in a team. I guess we we were on a team where we used it together because you brought it me to it. But anything that lancione does is worth looking into. Um, but yeah, I think as a creative, the working genius gave me more like creative language. I like the way they describe things a little bit more, um, but yeah, another another great tool, but five dysfunctional team. Now is this is this the book? That is half story, like he tells narrative, yeah, and it's practical. So it's got a little bit of something for everyone. If you're more of a narrative, he kind of gives a situation. He tells this long story of how these different, uh, dysfunctions of teams show up and then he gets real practical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've probably read this in at least three different seasons of leadership and three different seats in an organization. And it's funny, you know, when you face different stresses and pressures and responsibilities, what pops out, and obviously the culture of the team you're on really matters as well. And so the first time I read I was like okay, that's fine, whatever. The second time I read I was like that's pretty good. Then we read it one time and I was like, oh man, this is actually pretty painful. Now that I have more responsibility and ownership and organization, I'm actually accountable for the dysfunctions that happen in teams, and so this one's a really fantastic book. Like you said, the narrative is. You know, all leadership and business narratives are going to be a bit cheesy, but it helps from just like reading concepts.
Speaker 1:It's a little less academic when it's a it's a really good way to name some things in the organization to try to move you towards a healthier you know, functioning team. Just to kind of keep going through the list here. Yeah, we talked about self-discovery tools that are helpful for you as a leader and for your team. Then I do think at some point you need a framework and honestly there are dozens of frameworks to run your business by, but I am passionate that you pick one. You know some people do um attraction. Um Gino has a couple of different books. I think there's another one in here as well. Um it has a couple different books. I think there's another one in here as well.
Speaker 2:It's called Rocket Fuel and it's kind of like a continuation of this traction book. See the EOS guy. Yeah, eos, big rocks 100%.
Speaker 1:But so like, why am I drawing a blank on the thing from Colorado that we did? Oh, the StratOp thing. There we go. You can use StratOp as a framework, right, and that's a system to operate your business identify challenges, identify opportunities and then put your organization to task to do those Traction's another great framework book that gives you a way to operate the business. This is not really a narrative, this is more like kind of academic. And another one I just read early this year is just real simple, from Don Miller.
Speaker 2:It's just how to grow your small business framework King. He's Mr Framework story, brand, all these things he thinks in terms of frameworks, which is incredibly helpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so maybe for someone who's listening is like what the crap is a framework? I don't know. What do you? How would you describe a framework to operate a business? I?
Speaker 2:mean framework roadmap. To me it's just like it's more of a systematic guide to how to do something right. So for guys like me who can kind of just have these thought bubbles all the time, going ideas all the time, I need to work a plan. So it basically gives me a structure. And I will say for those listening that are similar to me you said it a minute ago I want to highlight you will really overwhelm your team if you throw a lot of everything Because I made that mistake. I get excited about a new thing, I read and I bring it to the team immediately and they're like well, we're not even done.
Speaker 1:Are we doing?
Speaker 2:EOS still or no? Are we still doing this? Done we're still? Are we doing eos still or no? Are we still doing this, you know? So I do think, find one that resonates with you and try to run that play for, I would say, at least a couple years if you can, and then if you need to pivot, great, but just be careful, throwing too much too fast as a leader. Um, but yeah, don miller is just he. I think he is probably the most brilliant I've seen at taking concepts that have existed for a long time and packaging it in a way that is really accessible, and that's what he did with story brand, and then this, this kind of newer one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Just so to put some I don't know handles on what you just said about frameworks. He just says so. This book talks about the framework being your business is an airplane and so the parts of the airplane that correspond with kind of functions or departments in your, in your business. So the cockpit would be your leadership, right, like it's got to have someone who's flying the plane, who's responsible to steer it and guide it and everything else. Then he talks about you know, the engines on the left and right side of the plane being, you know, sales being on one side and marketing being the other side, right, and you know it's like cashflow and marketing. It talks about the products are your wings, the products are the thing that gives you lift and actually carries you as you're flying. And then it talks about the body of the airplane is your overhead and operations.
Speaker 1:It's like it's a thing that is being taken from point A to point B. And so when you just kind of think about, okay, yeah, I've got a cockpit, I've got wings, I've got an engine, I've got a body, yeah, and then you put all your operations into those buckets and it's kind of helpful. And then you mentioned a caveat as far as like pivoting from system to system, and of course you can get super distracted. And I'm, as a coach, I'm not really passionate about which framework you use or which self-discovery tool you use. I just think you have to do them at some point to to grow as a leader. And, you know, based on your business, um, and based on your personality, I may recommend one or the other in a coaching session, like, hey, I think this one's gonna be pretty crucial for this year of leadership and development. But I'm not gonna, you know, really say I only do StrengthsFinder, I only do Enneagram. I think they all have value.
Speaker 2:Well, it's what I love about when, when you lead these off sites and you really do take the best of all these things like so we've done a strat op off sites for three or four days. It's great, we've done enneagram stuff, we've done strength finder, we've done story brand, we've done, we've had, we've done all this stuff for the consultants come and do that. When we do a fraction x off site, we really kind of pick the best of those things and try to combine it into one experience and if we want to dig deeper into one, we can. But we take what we've learned and done with the culture stuff, like any grand working genius, strengths finder, um, we take the strat op stuff that we've learned, that was helpful, a lot of the exercises we do there, and we kind of put it into a two or three day experience so that when you leave, instead of having to do six different off sites, we're trying to package it in one and then if and then in our follow-up work is where we kind of dive a little bit deeper into that stuff.
Speaker 2:Here's my question. And you got a few more there. I don't know if we got time to go through, because I'm curious about your jordan peterson book and why you brought that one to the table because that's that just to make some people mad, was it just the sort of the speed of trust, obviously a great book for for teams, um, that are wanting to go further, faster.
Speaker 2:You know we love anything by andy stanley. He's written some great books. Um, he's a you know pastor, but he's he's. The principles are transferable in the leadership, really smart leader. If you're an owner operator, where would you, you recommend that I, I start? Where would we start as owner operators, with all this stuff? Do you have one that you would say, or or is it just I would almost?
Speaker 1:start above a decision for a framework or for a guideline and say change really only happens when the pain of not changing outweighs the pain of the change you're about to do. Right, and so it kind of. For me, it starts with a commitment. Hey, things are this way right now and I'm so sick and tired of the results, or I'm so sick and tired of the stress and the pressure that my life is putting on me and my leadership and my business. I have to do something different. So that that point of like, if things are kind of going well, like you're probably not going to be committed to any change, like things are going good, I'm not going to change my life that much.
Speaker 1:I may be inspired by an idea, but what I really want to talk to are the leaders who are just like at the end of their rope and say, hey, you need change. A lot of times we need change that's guided by someone else, right? So it's like whether that's the book that guides you, or a coach or consultant that guides you, um, or counselor, or whatever that is, I think you have to get that point of commitment. And the reason I want to start with commitment is because implementation is difficult. I heard this story and it blew me away. So I went to Chick-fil-A with my daughter last night and I always like to test the you know, my pleasure. So I was like hey man, thanks so much, and he did it my pleasure, right. Any guesses how long it took the C-suite to get my pleasure pass at the retail stores? I have no idea.
Speaker 2:I would figure they just put out a memo and everyone has to start saying it. It took three years for complete implementation.
Speaker 1:Wow, that is one of the best like leadership into the culture for it to show up every as consistently as it does.
Speaker 1:It took three years to get that across the goal line. Chick-fil-a is all about leadership. They have a leadership training center. They have an incredible centralized organization that all they think about is chicken and profit. These people are the best of the best right, and if it took them three years to get my pleasure across the goal line, you better believe before you adopt a framework with a staff. I mean it's going to fight against all your bad habits and all your bad decisions and your team who's? They're mad because you've changed the framework three times in three years. So it's like there's just a hundred things that are going to work against you. So it starts with being dude. I'm just so sick and tired of the results I'm getting. I'm going to commit to something. It doesn't matter if it's Enneagram or StrengthsFinder, whatever, or framework. You're just saying something has to change and I'm gonna be committed to that process because really execution is success, not ideation. Reading a bunch of books doesn't make you successful when you go okay, how do I apply this and actually make?
Speaker 2:my business 100%. You gotta activate it for it to become transformational. That's exactly right.
Speaker 1:So I go, before you pick a framework and start somewhere, ask yourself am I ready to change? And that's a real, honest question Like, not, like am I? I'm kind of ready to change. Like no, I'm ready to change.
Speaker 2:And it takes slowing down. I mean the thing we see all the time and we understand cause we're. We're in it too, so we understand what it's like it takes being able to pull away and some sometimes the biggest hurdle for us is convincing leaders to take a day or two step away from their business because it feels like they're going backwards. But we're like we promise you, when you emerge with a clear strategy and message and all this stuff, it's going to really propel your business forward. But I understand a lot of owners, operators I can't be away from my business for even a day or two. It feels that. So, as leaders, understanding, like you said, you got to want it, you got to have that place of desperation and you got to be willing to invest, which sometimes it's more than money. It's the time to steal away, slow everything down, bring it to a halt or a stop for a minute so you can look at it and then you can actually go go faster.
Speaker 1:No, I think that's a great place to land this one. You know, my thing is, if we get some feedback from people listening to the podcast, that they want us to continue to go through some more tools and some more books we'll revisit some of these, because I've got a whole shelf full of these things. You've got a bunch.
Speaker 2:All right, last question for you. We'll end with this.
Speaker 1:This is a fun one.
Speaker 2:It's good. It's a desert island question. You're going to go one business book with you to launch your new startup business. What? What is your? What's the Holy grail you're taking with you? You only get to choose one. That is such an impossible question.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna see if it's in this pile somewhere. You're taking Peterson, yeah, I don't know, man, I think. I think, um, this book probably had more impact than I thought it was going to have. Yeah, because, um, and I'll just say this for me it comes. They talk about this book.
Speaker 1:The definition of trust is really, um, it's two things. It's not just character, but it's competence. And a lot of people think it's just oh, you've got to be trustworthy, you got to be have a good character. It's like, if you're trustworthy, character wise, but you have no competence, you're actually not a trustworthy person. Or, on the flip side, if you are very competent but your character is shady, you're still not a trustworthy person. And so this kind of talks about mergers and acquisitions and when cultures collide, like how do you build trust in an organization? But it really starts with a leader saying I'm going to be committed to being a trusting person myself and I'm going to develop the character that's impeachable and I'm going to develop the competence that's going to give people confidence in what I'm doing. So I think there's there's it's a pretty dense book and I love the coveys. They both write some really fantastic stuff, so I think that one may go with me. Bye.