Shandel Sutherland 00:04
Welcome to Lead For Clarity where we help you, your team and your organization get to your next level of clarity and focus. My name is Shandel Sutherland, and I'm here with my co host, Melanie Montgomery, and we are Fall lovers, aren't we? Melanie?
Melanie Montgomery 00:20
Yes, we I love that crisp air, those beautiful sunsets.
Shandel Sutherland 00:23
I love them so much, and listeners, we are loving your questions coming in, and we are compiling them as we go. We can't wait to get after him. So keep it going. Because this show is all about you. So we have been talking Melanie about the process. And what we've talked about is a sustainable model for growth. I've been using this for 20 years. And we're finding that this process is fairly timeless when you say yeah, definitely. And we're gonna let everybody in on how the Shandel Group magic works. And a lot of that is understanding this process, even though we don't may not use the language with all our clients. We want them to know what we're thinking about. So Which part are we going to hit today, Melanie,
Melanie Montgomery 00:26
We're today are going to talk about pain, that pain point, which is the first step in the process.
Shandel Sutherland 00:49
Yeah, so we've been talking about values, we've been talking about truth telling, we've been talking really about how trust and all these things are the basic components that the whole point of a business is to fulfill its purpose, first, you got to know it, and live by the values. And so as we're getting these basic components out, now we're ready to hit what you said that first stage. And that is where you assess the gaps. Where exactly are you in pain? What character what competencies what what capacity? Do we have to navigate through this period of real pain? And how do we trail blaze through I have found it over and over again that if you're not ready to take action, in the pain point, you're going to off ramp into the cycle of misery.
Melanie Montgomery 01:58
Yeah, I agree. When we're in that pain phase, it's so easy to off ramp. And that's really when we go away from our values, not necessarily intentionally or with negative intentions. But just something else is getting in the way, whether it be fear, frustration, or ego during this pain process. This is one of the points we have to be really careful and really lean into our values. Because when we're experiencing pain, and we're forcing ourselves to look inward and say, Where am I struggling? What is hard right now, it's easy to lean into that fear of oh, I'm actually doing fine, or this isn't my fault, instead of leaning into our values and trailblazing through and figuring out how do I assess this pain and fix this pain versus trying to numb it away?
Shandel Sutherland 02:44
Oh, that's so good. Yeah, and I think the reason we call this pain, it could be opportunity. But I think mostly when you're in a cycle of growth, and that's what the process is all about is every growth step you take as a person, as a team, as an organization, happens in a cycle. And the first stage of that is really realizing what are we doing? What is the opportunity, and I just think most of the time, it's clothed in pain. I think CS Lewis said, pain is a megaphone. And I think that that is so true. When we get businesses referred to us which we're so grateful that people do that. It's usually because two business owners, two team members, two people are talking and one is talking about their pain point in their business or in their team or their organization and someone else shares their testimony. Shandel Group can help you through that. And so we actually get called a lot through the pain cycle. And Melanie, how do you experience that on the other end of the phone call
Melanie Montgomery 03:48
as leaders, we always want to reframe things to be positive, which is why we often say opportunity instead of weakness or opportunity instead of mistake. But what we really see is that when we have a pain point that alerts us to we need to make some changes. And when we can really isolate what is causing the issue. It's not because we're looking at it in a negative way, but because now we're trying to find the opportunity. But first we have to recognize the pain, just like we do when we have an injury, you know, we want to assess like, where is this pain coming from? And what steps do I need to fix that pain so that it's not there? And a lot of times we become aware of that pain, because we're seeing different outcomes. And so we have to dig in to see what is the cause of this pain versus just what are the symptoms, which is what we see a lot. I have a lot of teams coming to me with we have poor communication. Okay, great. That's a great pain point to start with. And I think that that is very universal, and what is causing the poor communication, and we need to dig into this to figure out what pain is actually the root cause that we can start to dig into. So but we can make steps to improve that communication.
Shandel Sutherland 05:03
On it's so good i It kind of reminds me of my dad when he was alive and he had a pancreas kidney transplant, whatever meds he was on, or that he would bleed a lot, like if he just touched something. And so, you know, as kids, we're always just trying to get him a band aid, you know, and really, it was something was wrong with the medication that was making him bleed too much right? Every time he got hurt. And so I feel like that is such a great example of leaders who go into the cycle of misery, they're just handing out band aids instead of going at the cause, which, you know, if you didn't know better, you wouldn't know oh, we should check your Med level, like who would even know that. And I think that that is Shandel Group, we have so much experience just like those doctors did for my dad, and have more information of how we can go after and help people get through that pain as quickly as possible, because that's what we love to help people do is, let's get through this. Do well, and get through it. And because we have five more, and they're not as bad as this.
Melanie Montgomery 06:07
Yeah, definitely. And I think as an organization, that's where we go through these different components, it can be really great to work with an outside person that can help you navigate this process, especially if you're new to it. As an individual. A lot of times what we're doing in this spot is a lot of reflecting, and all the thinking through. When I do something that I'm like, Oh, that behavior isn't really what you want to be. And I start leaning into that pain and trying to figure out, what do I need to change in order to be the best version of myself, it takes a lot of me really sitting down and thinking through like what's causing it, what's going on maybe talking to somebody. There's a lot of introspection. And I think that happens during this stage, especially individually, but also as a team and an organization to really reflect on who are we what are we doing. And I also want to make a note that sometimes we've already been through the cycle once and so we're coming from profit back into pain, we may have just come off of a really great success. This happens a lot in both the business world and personally. There's been times where I've worked on something really hard, like being vulnerable. I've really, really worked on that. And I got to that profit stage. And then all sudden, I started recognizing that there was something else about me that was causing pain. And so now I need to dive back into that. But in a slightly different way. Once we get through the cycle once or a few times, it starts to be really exciting to get to that pain point. Because then you're like, oh, I want to keep growing. I want to keep learning. I want to keep making these positive changes. And it can be almost addicting at some point.
Shandel Sutherland 07:43
Wow, what a great analysis. Yes. And even talking about like, I'm kind of in a shame cycle right now. Right? So shame comes out. And it wants to send us into a cycle of misery where all we do is stay in our head where the pain is like, nope, let's go after the first step.
Melanie Montgomery 08:01
Yeah, I love that you brought that up Shandel. Because learning about shame actually really helped me in my personal and professional development. I learned from one of Brene Brown's books all about shame. And what she talks about is that the difference between shame and embarrassment is that when something bad happens, or you do something silly, when you lean into shame, you think I am bad, or I am stupid versus embarrassment is I did something bad or I did something stupid. When we get into that shame cycle, we can't look inward, because we are taking everything that's happening as a reflection of who we are at the core versus just our behaviors. And knowing that distinction really helps me get out of a shame cycle because I you know, have been in once or one or two in my lifetime. And really understanding that Melanie, this is just your behavior, this isn't who you are, you can change your behavior. And that doesn't reflect on you being a good or bad person.
Shandel Sutherland 09:04
Not so good. Yeah. And I'll add to that embarrassment, word of guilt. Guilt versus shame is the same thing. You also is actually is good. And you know, oh, don't feel guilty about that. I think what they're really saying is don't feel shame around that. Because guilt is good guilt means you've got something you need to go Correct. Yeah. thing. And so we like don't want to throw embarrassment or guilt out the table because they kind of just our behaviors that we can fix and change and go back. But that shame piece, boy, if we don't assess that correctly, and we understand it, we will be in the cycle of misery and less than two seconds. So excellent example, Melanie, I appreciate you sharing that. We give people three points to think about and they're all in the acronym of act because that's what was required. And each one of these stages is an action step or two or three or more So this one is a is assessing the gap. And what are the pain points? What are some of the tools that we use so people can kind of start wrapping their brain around? How do we help them navigate through a pain state? Yeah.
Melanie Montgomery 10:15
And this pain stage, we use a lot of different tools. And depending on the individual team organization, they can fluctuate a little bit. But we look at 360 analysis where we really try to figure out how does the team perceive you? A SWOT analysis is great to do at this point where we can really analyze our strengths or weaknesses, our opportunities and our threats. This is also where we talk through goal setting and where we're looking to go. And when we look towards our goals, then we can start to figure out what what has prevented us from getting there and dig into some of those pain points that are really causing issues right now. Also, we look at like feedback surveys, we have a tool called the organizational health diagnostic, where we go in and really walk a team through what's going well, where are we? And what are the priorities that we need to focus on in order to get to where we want to go?
Shandel Sutherland 11:08
Not so good. And that allows us then that once we get some of that, under our belt, then we can come in and do a whole employee survey to find out what are the things that we are blind spots that we don't even know are going to cause us pain if we don't deal with them? What about the next one? Which is the seed the second part of that act? Or do we have our three C's character, competency and capacity? Why don't you explain how we help people use that tool to navigate through pain?
Melanie Montgomery 11:39
Yeah, so as I look at these pieces, we want to really take a good look at what's our character, whether that be an individual or a team? Are we where we want to be? Do we have the right people in the right places? Or are there things that we need to start adjusting, maybe we aren't leaning into honesty as much as we need to, maybe we're leaning into avoiding conflict or whatever that looks like and really looking at are our people where they need to be? Or do we need to focus on some of those core character components that really linked back to our values, then we want to look at competencies. Sometimes people really want to do a good job, and they have the best intentions, but they just don't have the skill sets, they don't have the ability to do it, or they don't have those framework pieces. And so sometimes in this pain stage, we need to recognize that we have really great people. And we haven't given them the skills. This happens a lot when we promote from within, and we don't equip people. So that can be one area where we say we have these great people, they want to do it, but we just haven't given them the skills. And now we need to do that training. And then capacity comes in a couple of forms. Number one, do we have enough people to do the job that we're expecting of them? A lot of times we're short staffed, and people just don't have the capacity to do everything that we need them to do, but also the capacity of the individual? And are they in that right role? Do they have the capacity to do the job that we're asking, or the growth opportunity that we're looking for?
Shandel Sutherland 13:10
That's so good. And I'll take the T, which is trailblaze through the pain, this is are you ready to take action. And I remember when I first came up with that, I was kind of like, oh my gosh, every time we hit one of these paintings, I feel like I have a machete. And I'm having to create this trail through to the beach. But what I realized is that when I do do that I have so many tools for people to follow behind. And at first, I was a little bitter about that. I'm like, why is it so hard for me, and then all these other people, they just are fine. In my older days, my more humble days, I realized that many people have gone before me number one, and number two, it is an honor to trailblaze and make it easier for other people. And especially now that I have teams, I'm so glad I was a trailblazer in a sense, but you really have to have the mentality to go deep into your stuff. You know, whatever that means to anyone else. If you think about you have got to take that proverbial machete and be willing to get some scrapes and bruises so that you can get to the next stage, which is really the magic sauce is where everything starts coming together for you, which is in that connection. You're connecting back to yourself. You're connecting to your team. You're connecting your organization together and there is nothing more exciting than purposeful connection.
Melanie Montgomery 14:37
Yeah, definitely. And that goes back to one of our foundational pieces of the leader goes first. You can't be a leader and say oh, you need to make this change and you need to make that change. It has to be how do I apply this to me first, how do I get really good at this? And then how do I bring my team along?
Shandel Sutherland 14:55
There is nothing worse and I think you will agree is when the organization is in pain. And the leader is the last one to know it. And they struggle with, oh, let's just say pride. I wanted to go narcissism, but I won't be that tough on everyone. And they, they can't quite see that they're the problem. One of the greatest things we can do is everyone assume that we're the problem. I remember this great book that Don Miller wrote, Donald Miller wrote, and he talked about being always in protests, you know, in college and stuff. And so pretty soon, he just said, I just finally got a little sign that said, I'm the problem, and he would walk around going, I am the problem. And Scott, and I just love that because we seem like, Finally, someone gets it, that they're the problem, we have all these tools. But really, it takes the leader to realize that they have to be the one to lead everyone out of it. I could not agree more. And it's a privilege, like, it is not a chore, it's a privilege. And the ones that we see, do it well will do this self awareness work, it goes back to the five drivers of a great leader. And the first one is self awareness. And they how you serve your team, is by being self aware and doing your self awareness work. And I will tell you, when there are leaders that don't want to do that, they're the ones that will tank in the end. And you know, then the leader just wants to be right there in that cycle of misery, which is victory. They just want to do their victory lap, not realizing the pain and misery they're putting everyone through.
Melanie Montgomery 16:35
Yeah, definitely. And when we have a leader that is in a cycle of misery, it is so hard for the rest of the team to be in a healthy cycle, because they're not supported in the ways that help them move through all of those processes.
Shandel Sutherland 16:50
Yeah, many times in my career, Melanie, I will get in touch with the HR director, who is amazing person, and they go sell this to the CEO and the CEO is like, Yeah, great idea. But they only want to do phase one. And that just doesn't do it, you know, that doesn't get you the growth that you're looking for. So that decision maker and the person that's in charge has to be engaged and totally bought in. And I think that that is where this pain stage really will show if someone wants to be driven by their values, or driven by their own Victor self.
Melanie Montgomery 17:31
Yeah, I had a client call a couple of weeks ago, and it was our first call to see if we're a good fit. And right off the bat. He said, our leadership team needs to go through this first. And then I want to help the managers and right after he said that I knew that they were a perfect fit for us because the leader, the executive director was bought in he wanted to do it first, the executive team and then to continue that growth. So you're absolutely right about that.
Shandel Sutherland 17:59
Oh, he's my favorite, whoever that is. They're my favorite line to write. All right, well, let's land this plane. It's so fun talking about this. And really, listeners, we're just trying to equip you with everything that you need to live your best life and run your best company and absolutely impact your team that's around you. The fact of life is that no matter how amazing you are, as a person, as a leader, you are going to go into the next pain stage. And it's okay, because that is how you grow. And so don't be afraid of pain. And I think Melanie that is my number one takeaway from even creating the process and putting it into words, when I'm on a high I don't I celebrate it immensely, because I know the next pain thing is coming. And it helps me to be aware of it. And I have to admit just talking about this, I realized I have another pain thing I need to go into. So I just appreciate the conversation because here I go into my next stage of growth.
Melanie Montgomery 19:01
I love it. I'm right there with you. I'm always finding new pain points and it's always exciting. And I will also leave everyone with that if you're living a comfortable life then you probably aren't growing. So embrace that discomfort, push yourself and really take those steps to make yourself a better version of you and be better in all aspects.
Shandel Sutherland 19:23
I love it. I love it. So you can find at shandelgroup.com Again, we love our listeners, please rate, subscribe, share. We're just kind of going over all of these stages, but we look forward to having all of your questions compiled and ready to answer so send them on in and as always be the best you can be today.
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