Ep. 151 Karolina Bullock: Combining a set of transferable key ingredients with self awareness, determination and hard work to create an inspiring career.

In this episode we are celebrating the career to date of Karolina Bullock.

Karolina is the General Manager, Corporate Planning and Strategy for Toyota Insurance Services UK.

Before taking on her latest role, Karolina spent the majority of her career within facilities management with the Japanese insurer Aioi Nissay Dowa, part of the MS & AD Group.

In our conversation, we talk about her childhood in Poland, her move to the UK aged 18 and the key ingredients that she has leveraged over the last decade or so to develop her career.

When I first heard Karolina's story I was struck by her courage, her tenacity and drive, her pragmatism, her self awareness and her ambition. Karolina openly shares the paradigms and behaviours that have clearly contributed to her success so far and that will transfer easily and equally effectively into other domains.

I am inspired by how Karolina has navigated her career journey so far and delighted to give you an insight into her mindset and approach in this episode. I look forward to hearing what resonates with you.

Connect on LinkedIn: Karolina Bullock

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Episode recorded on 8 January 2024.

Transcript

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Karolina Bullock: 0:00

It was really refreshing actually to see someone take a different approach to it and think, well actually, if somebody has the right mindset and is willing to learn, then why not what could go wrong?

Aquilae Academy: 0:12

Welcome to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers to share insights to help you with your own journey. Here's your host, Andy Follows.

Andy Follows: 0:43

Hello, listeners, Andy here. Thank you for tuning in. We appreciate that you do. We're also very grateful for our guests who generously join me to create these episodes so that we can celebrate their careers, listen to their stories, and learn from their experiences. In this episode, we're celebrating the career to date of Karolina Bullock. Karolina is the General Manager Corporate Planning and Strategy for Toyota Insurance Services UK. Before taking on her latest role, Karolina spent the majority of her career within facilities management within the Japanese insurer, Aioi Nissay Dowa a part of the MS&AD Group. In our conversation we talked about her childhood in Poland, her move to the UK aged 18 and the key ingredients that she's leveraged over the last decade or so to develop her career. When I first heard Karolina's story, I was struck by her courage, her tenacity and drive, her pragmatism, her self awareness and her ambition. Karolina openly shares the paradigms and behaviours that have clearly contributed to her success so far, and that will transfer easily and equally effectively into other domains. I'm inspired by how Karolina has navigated her career journey so far, and delighted to give you an insight into her mindset and approach in this episode. I look forward to hearing what resonates with you. Hello Karolina, and welcome. Where are you coming to us from today?

Karolina Bullock: 2:10

Hi, Andy, nice to hear from you. I am joining you from a very frosty North Allerton which is about an hour from Newcastle.

Andy Follows: 2:18

An hour from Newcastle up there in the Northeast of England. And where did your journey start?

Karolina Bullock: 2:23

I'm Polish. Originally I was born in a little city called es war. It's about two hours from Krakow. little village not far from there. Living on the farm

Andy Follows: 2:37

on a farm. Yeah. Oh, right. Tell me a little bit about that.

Karolina Bullock: 2:41

So with that there wasn't a huge farm. But we did kind of us as probably most Polish families at the time had chickens. We didn't have pigs or we didn't have cows one kind of data established. But we did have chickens and

Andy Follows: 2:55

How many chickens would you have had?

Karolina Bullock: 2:57

Turkeys maybe about 30. So we use them for eggs and then also to eat them at the end.

Andy Follows: 3:05

Okay, no spoilers. Those were mainly for your family consumption then

Karolina Bullock: 3:13

there were Yes. It was just mainly for us.

Andy Follows: 3:16

Tell me about your family then. So did you have brothers and sisters? Or do you have brothers?

Karolina Bullock: 3:20

Yeah. So I have a couple of sisters. I'm in the middle. Mom and Dad. So we all lived together. With a few dogs. We always had a dog. So that was nice. We always have plenty of animals. We grew our own vegetables. There was kind of a nice like villagey feel to it a nice upbringing, I guess.

Andy Follows: 3:40

Yeah. And you didn't sustain the family from the farm? Where that was there other work being done? Yeah.

Karolina Bullock: 3:47

So my mom was very hard working. And I remember she was she didn't have a consistent job. I guess she kind of used to grab various different roles and jobs just to just to earn extra money. My father, from when I remember, I think he worked before I was born, but from when I remember he never worked. He had issues with his heart and, and other medical stuff. So my mom was the one that was kind of supporting the family. And from when I was about eight year old, she started travelling to Italy because the way and many jobs I guess around where we live, so So it became very difficult to support the family. So so she would go to Italy for for two or three months at a time, work there and then send the money back to Poland and come back home for about a couple of weeks. Wow. Every two or three months. So it was really Yeah, it was it wasn't great because we were very close with my mom where we went with with our dad. And yeah, not carry on until until I was growing up.

Andy Follows: 4:51

So you were the middle sister, and you were about eight years old. So how old was the eldest sister have been when when your mom started going off on these longer visits

Karolina Bullock: 5:00

She was just just under 10 year old, and my youngest sister would have been six.

Andy Follows: 5:07

Wow, that sounds quite tough. But my first reaction is that as that sounds like a fairly, you said it was a nice it was a village sort of nice environment. But that does sound a bit tough mom going away for those stretches.

Karolina Bullock: 5:20

Yeah, definitely. And especially due to the fact that we didn't really get on with our dad. Yeah, it was tricky. But again, it's something we just needed to do to be fair.

Andy Follows: 5:31

We just needed to do it. To be fair. That's interesting. So let's come back to it. We'll come back to some of that, I'm sure. So tell me first though, what about school? What are your memories? What would the teachers have said about you?

Karolina Bullock: 5:43

So school was good. And I think that was one of those lucky kids that had a really great memory. So although I was very ambitious, and I was, I did spend a lot of hours into the evenings reading and learning and preparing for school and doing my homework. It didn't really take that much effort for me. Yeah, so that was relatively smooth as well. And I somehow managed to stay in between being a cool kid at school, but also the one that got good grades.

Andy Follows: 6:12

That's a fine line. That's a difficult line to tread. So in what ways tell me what being the cool kid look like? What was that going on? At those sort of at that time? What sort of things would cool kids have been doing?

Karolina Bullock: 6:25

Well, it was your your standard smoking behind the school and sometimes potentially missing or missing a few lessons to go where everyone was going at the time. But I never really got me into trouble, I think because I had good scores. And I was putting the effort in at the same time, somehow maintained that really good, robust student.

Andy Follows: 6:48

Yeah, the teachers were happy because you're getting the grades. So it didn't get you into trouble. Did it just seemed like the natural thing to do to go and work hard at school. Did you enjoy it? What kept you doing your homework and getting those good grades?

Karolina Bullock: 7:06

Yeah, good question. So I guess it's probably a mixture of things. So my mom always told me, you know, you have to be ambitious. And you have to challenge yourself and you have to learn. And her she always when I was younger, she always wanted to be a doctor, and have your standard parents dream. That didn't happen. And it wasn't something I was interested in. But she she always had high ambitions for me. Suffering, I guess it's probably a combination of us being relatively poor, when I was growing up and seeing how that is impacted down to my parents, not necessarily having, you know, well paid roles. And obviously, my mom having to travel away from us in order that we could sustain ourselves. Yeah, just I guess just wanting to have an easier life and have be able to give my kids in either life in the future. Together with that my mom drilled into me how important it is to learn new things, and always better yourself.

Andy Follows: 8:02

So that meant that you did apply yourself at school, you're getting good grades. And it sounds like you had a good time socially, as well.

Karolina Bullock: 8:13

Yeah, always the popular kid somehow. So that was good, so that they didn't enjoy school, went to a few different schools, as we kind of just the way they positioned within where I lived, really. So as I grew up, I kind of ventured out a little bit further. And so moved on to college and then did my GCSEs than my A levels. And I did really well with those,

Andy Follows: 8:38

what sort of direction were you going in Karolina whether some subjects that you prefer to others.

Karolina Bullock: 8:44

So naturally, I was always really good with languages. So I was good with German and English and polish as well, in terms of that academic writing and reading. I was never really that great at maths, I have to be honest. And I do still believe it's down to the teacher that I had, because she wasn't very nice. So maybe that put me off. So yeah, so always like languages kind of economics, geography, again, not so great. And my husband will tell you, even today that I could get lost in Well, anyway, I really don't really have a great sense of direction. So language has I guess, and biology, but I enjoyed biology. I think a lot of what I enjoyed was down to how it was presented to me by the teacher, really. So the better the relationship I had with them, the more I enjoyed the subject.

Andy Follows: 9:33

So when you're coming towards the end of your school career, that had you started to have any ideas about what you wanted to do.

Karolina Bullock: 9:42

I was never the type of person that had their life planned out, I guess if that makes sense. And I never really knew exactly what it is that I was going to be doing in the future. And maybe that goes back to my childhood years and I just wanted to do something that would allow me to sustain my family. And, and better myself. So I was just kind of going with the flow, I guess. I mean, the college that I attended, the subject was kind of economics related and learning about businesses, there was a lot of IT skills required and kind of that focus on that area.

Andy Follows: 10:16

How did you choose that college in that course? Can you remember?

Karolina Bullock: 10:19

So it was kind of a standard process you will go through based on your scores, you will apply for kind of the best schools that you could potentially get into. And this was my first choice. And that was down to the reputation of the school and also the level of expectations required in terms of No,

Andy Follows: 10:38

It was the best one. And you could get into and you got your first choice. And you picked something that you were interested in or that you thought would be good, career wise.

Karolina Bullock: 10:47

So it was probably career related. Yeah, I just picked it pick the economics and kind of something that would be transferable in the future.

Andy Follows: 10:56

And how did that go? Did you did you leave home to do that? Or did you stay home?

Karolina Bullock: 11:00

No. So that was still within the city that I lived in on the an hour's travel time. And so yeah, so I really enjoyed that. That that for three years and then see that my ad levels which went really well. And then the natural step, I guess from there would have been to go to university, but because what we see within half the money than wasn't really on the cards for me. So I was just going to look for a job, I guess. I have a couple of cousins that live in the UK. So I thought I'm just gonna have a couple of months break. Go and visit them, see where they live, and then come back and I guess work out life and decide what it is that I'm going to do next.

Andy Follows: 11:44

How old were you then Karolina?

Karolina Bullock: 11:47

I was 18 Right I finished so yeah, so that's what I did. And I scraped together all the pennies for the ticket into the UK. And I remember I arrived by bus, which was a very long time.

Andy Follows: 11:58

You came all the way on the bus?

Karolina Bullock: 12:00

Yeah, so that was exciting. Yeah, but nervous. But I knew where I was going because obviously I knew I was going to see and stay with my cousin. And then from then on, I guess my career in UK started because I picked up a seasonal potato job whilst I was visiting and thinking well, why not? So you are picking potatoes? Picking potatoes and sorting potatoes. Yeah. Which was very, very, I guess, difficult job from a physical perspective. Very rewarding, obviously in terms of the money was really good. Yeah, I was like I say I was never afraid of hard work. So that wasn't an issue. And because I was seeing results and I was seeing something at the back end of it and suddenly I could buy things which wasn't something I was used to that drove me to then you know working harder and and it was commission based at the time so the harder you act the more potatoes you picked the more you got paid.

Andy Follows: 12:58

It's a simple model isn't it but one that was effective? And so at what point did you decide you know, this one or two months you were going to come over see what your cousins were doing and then go back and sort life out at what point did you decide to stay or did you not decide was it more of a just sort of happened?

Karolina Bullock: 13:16

I guess it's probably a bit of both. I mean, I'm wanting to stay and I really enjoyed it and I think probably I would say maybe a month into my visit I thought to myself well I could go back but what is it that am I going to be doing? I have a job here right now I know it's a seasonal job but a half you know family that I can stay with for a while longer so let's just stay and see what happens

Andy Follows: 13:39

yeah and whereabouts in the country was this

Karolina Bullock: 13:43

so this was also in the north of the UK they live an hour away from York also in a little village kind of where you tend to have your potato farms and Strawberry Strawberry Fields and

Andy Follows: 13:55

and so when the potato picking season came to an end what happened then

Karolina Bullock: 14:00

so then I was like right what's next and and I didn't want to stop because I liked having money. And again I was really hard working on that obviously I appreciated the fact that I have just arrived in England and although probably I should have probably mentioned that But although I have an A level in English, it I found it was completely different. When I arrived in the UK. I felt like I had to start learning from scratch because people spoke very fast. And I was kind of my name is Karolina I have one sister type of speaker

Andy Follows: 14:34

as we all are, as we all are when we learn French or or any language at school, I'm just thinking French because that's what we did at school. But yeah, it's completely different when you get dropped into the, into the country. So tell me more about how you how you navigated the next phase.

Karolina Bullock: 14:50

Yes, appreciate and not obviously I wasn't going to land a nice office role at the start of my journey because you know, my English wasn't that great Then I had a lot to learn, and and learn about the UK, you know as well,

Andy Follows: 15:05

did you have your sights set on an office role? Did you think that's where you wanted to be?

Karolina Bullock: 15:10

Not necessarily. Although I did, I did want to do something more satisfying and more fulfilling than working in the field, although I realised that I had to get through these jobs in order that I gave myself time to learn the language, and

Andy Follows: 15:26

Did you have that level of awareness and thought at the time, were you? When you look back? Do you think Yeah, I knew that I had to do this for a while. And I was comfortable with that. And I realised that I need to do it to get my language up to speed, but then I'll do other things afterwards. Was that the way you were helping yourself deal with the fact that it might not be ideal to be out in the field?

Karolina Bullock: 15:45

Yeah, I think so I get and I guess I'm really, I'm black and white. And people tell me that most days. Try and not kid other people or kid myself. So I'm quite realistic when it comes to stuff. And so obviously, I knew I'm in a new country, I don't really understand how things work here. I don't speak the language that well, so naturally, you know, I'm gonna have to accept that I may have to do roles, that isn't something that I want to do in a longer time. However, where we are in the second, you know, it's something that I appreciate having.

Andy Follows: 16:22

So you weren't shy of hard work at all. And you had the pragmatism, there wasn't there's zero sense of entitlement. Here, there's kind of an understanding of this is the way things are. And of course, I'm not going to swan straight into an office job with my level of English. But that's okay. So I'll just knuckle down and do this. And we'll see what develops. So after the potato picking, what did you do when things quietened down there?

Karolina Bullock: 16:49

Yeah, so when that's finished, and there weren't really many kind of seasonal jobs around, of course, because the season was finished, and my cousin's husband worked, and still works in that in the chicken factory, as a manager. And so I begged him and begged him for days to try and get me in the, get me a job. And at first, he was refusing because he know it's really difficult. And it's a really hard job really physically hard. But I promised him that I wouldn't disappoint them, and I wouldn't tarnish his name, his name, and I would work very hard. So eventually, he did agree. And he managed to get me in. And I kind of did everything and anything in there, in terms of different departments within the factory. So I did that for about a year and a half. And that was probably one of the hardest jobs that I've done. Physically wise, it was really hard. I remember my hands because I used to be, I used to spend part of my time tying chickens. And I don't know, if you, you can probably relate, you buy a chicken in a supermarket on a tray. And it's tied with with a rubber band. So for some time I was I was based on that line. And it was really difficult because the rubber bands were small, to small, probably for the chickens that were trying to tie with them. So my hands were just constantly swollen and painful. And I couldn't sleep. It was rare, it was really difficult. But again, you know, I enjoyed it. And, and I was keen to try all of the different departments that were there just so that I could experience them all. And I kind of always had that natural curiosity. And I didn't just want to stay within one department. And once I kind of mastered that, I wanted to try something else, and then something else. And so I guess that that's what kept me going and kept me interested for a year and a half.

Andy Follows: 18:40

Yeah, it sounds like you've got this natural curiosity, as you say, and also a natural desire to progress. Not happy with just levelling out, just, you know, let's keep going. Let's see what else there is.

Karolina Bullock: 18:53

Yeah, you can always believe you can always do better, and you can always improve yourself.

Andy Follows: 18:59

And so you spent 18 months there.

Karolina Bullock: 19:02

Yeah, so about about a year and a half. I don't remember exactly how long now. And then the season started again. And then I was offered a role on a strawberry farm, which sounded very appealing.

Andy Follows: 19:16

It does. I don't know why it's a bit unfair to potatoes. But yeah, strawberry. This sounds like the glamorous end.

Karolina Bullock: 19:22

Yeah, a bit of an upgrade from chickens. So I thought why not? Let's try this. Again. I really enjoyed that. I kind of started picking strawberries to then become the supervisor, and judging other people's strawberry baskets to make sure that the strawberries met the criteria expected. And so yeah, I really really enjoyed that.

Andy Follows: 19:45

How did you find that first? First sort of leadership position really your supervisor position given your work ethic and your your mindset around all this? Do you remember that? Was that a challenge to step in? into that role.

Karolina Bullock: 20:01

I do remember it briefly. And I remember at the start, I didn't really enjoy it because it meant that I had kind of moved away from that commission paying role where I could work really hard and push myself to where I was just sat there checking other people's work and making sure that the quality of the strawberries getting put into the baskets or spot on. So that I think for a little just a little while I struggled with because I was a little bit jealous of other has been able to push themselves and really work hard. And what wasn't enough in that situation. I was kind of just getting paid a certain rate or my role. Although Yeah, I mean, it was good. I enjoyed it.

Andy Follows: 20:41

It's the classic individual contributor gets promoted to Team Leader scenario, which, you know, you could be a salesperson who becomes a sales manager, it could be all we know all the different scenarios. So whether it was strawberries, or potatoes doesn't really go cars or anything doesn't really matter. It was it's the same dynamic. So again, you accepted it, tell us more than about how that evolved.

Karolina Bullock: 21:08

Yeah, so that was great. And like I say, I did that throughout the season. And then I met my ex boyfriend, and he lived in Newcastle. So I decided to move a little bit closer to Him, so that we could make it work. And so I had to quit my strawberry role. And I moved to Newcastle, and was looking for a role. By that point, my English was relatively good. So I was able to actually look for a different type of role. So I managed to secure a carers position. So I was caring for older people, visiting them in their homes and taking care of them. So that was really a really a rewarding role, although I didn't enjoy it because of the hours that was really kind of used to start at seven and finish about 10pm, which wasn't great. So I did that for a couple of years, again, continuing to improve my English language skills and learning about the UK. And then my next role was actually the first office role, because my partner was asked to move to Gibraltar with with a company that he worked for, ensured a box, so I quit my role in order that I could go with him and went to Gibraltar with him. So that was exciting.

Andy Follows: 22:26

Let me take a moment to tell you about our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by ASKE Consulting who are experts in Executive Search, Resourcing Solutions and Talent Management across all sectors of the automotive industry in the UK and Europe. I’ve known them for almost 20 years, and I can think of no more fitting sponsor for CAREER-VIEW MIRROR. They're the business we go to at Aquilae when we're looking for talent for our clients and for projects that we're working on. ASKE was founded by Andrew McMillan whose own automotive career includes board level positions with car brands and leasing companies. All ASKE consultants have extensive client-side experience which means they bring valuable insight and perspective for both their employer and candidate customers. My earliest experience of working with Andrew was in 2004 when he helped me hire Regional Managers for my leasing sales team at Alphabet. More recently, when Aquilae was helping a US client to establish a car subscription business, ASKE Consulting was alongside us helping us to develop our people strategy and identify and bring on board suitable talent. Clients we've referred to ASKE have had an equally positive experience. Andrew and the team at ASKE are genuinely interested in the long-term outcomes for you and the people they place with you. They even offer the reassurance of a 2-year performance guarantee which means they have‘skin in the game’ when working with you. If you're keen to secure the most talented and high potential people to accelerate your business and gain competitive advantage, do get in touch with them and let them know I sent you. You can email Andrew and the team at hello@askeconsulting.co.uk or check out their website for more details and more client feedback at www.askeconsulting.co.uk . ASKE is spelt A S K E You’ll find these contact details in the shownotes for this episode. Ok, let’s get back to our episode.

Karolina Bullock: 24:24

When we landed I did try to find a job and I'm not sure how much you know about Gibraltar but it's very kind of office based you know gambling companies and big insurance companies. So naturally that was going to be have to be my focus. And I remember I went to this one interview I don't remember how I managed to get in for an interview with the guy did look at my CV and asked me how did you manage to get in for this interview? Because of course my CV was strawberries potatoes. So I didn't really have any any office experience any kind of Yeah, so yes, that's Look, I didn't really work. But I mean fair play by apply to him. So he did the interview anyway, he did, but I didn't, as you can imagine, I didn't get the job. And there were probably better suited candidates with more experience in the relevant field. And so for three months in, I think, slowly getting fed up off trying to apply and not getting anywhere, the company that my boyfriend worked and actually offered me a temporary position for three months, which appreciated very much. And I literally worked my socks off to make sure that I proved myself and hoping that they'll extend me. And obviously, that will be the start of something, which is what happened. And I remember, again, I was loving, and I was so appreciative of having this other other type of role. And I quickly picked up everything that needed to be done started improving processes, to the point where people did the job for a few years. Before me, were asking how are they still managing to get through so much more than they are with the experience that they have now soon became the person to go in that team and, and kind of taken them through my process of how I do things and how I managed to get through. I was at the time I was processing manual cancellations for an insurance company, we didn't have a system that would process them. So we had to calculate the refunds and put them through manually. And so I was taken. The other Ps within my team worked for many years, on how I apply it, and how I make sure that I get through, let's say, 100 cases a day, versus their 50. So that was really good. And that made me feel, you know, needed and appreciated, I guess.

Andy Follows: 26:42

Yeah, it was absolutely fascinating. But I'd like to stay on this a little longer. So first of all, what do you put it down to your ability to find a better process?

Karolina Bullock: 26:53

Not sure. It's a difficult question. I guess everyone approaches problem differently and finds different solutions to them. My solution in that example, was just a bit more efficient and effective, I guess. But that's not to say that, it is that every time.

Andy Follows: 27:10

I'm gonna hypothesise Yeah, that some of this with the potatoes. Yeah, it was all about, the more you do, the more you get paid. So you'd spent time being incentivized to be efficient, and to be effective and to do things quickly and get more done. And so maybe that was part of it may be being on a mission, knowing that you actually you had a longer term goal, you had the ambition that we talked about from when you were earlier and what your mom had instilled in you as well. So maybe some of those things were contributing to you naturally being invested in getting a good result your heart was in doing more of whatever it was. And I also think it's interesting that it sounds like you were seen as a go to person and you were helping the others. You managed to do this in a way that didn't annoy them or isolate you.

Karolina Bullock: 28:02

Yeah, that was nice. Because often you might find those situations, and actually, this new person becomes the enemy, because you know, they're showing you up, or you might be seen as doing a better job, which which didn't happen.

Andy Follows: 28:16

What did you do? Are you aware of what you did to prevent that happening?

Karolina Bullock: 28:21

I think we just had a really good relationship. And naturally, if you approach people in a kind way, you're probably gonna get a better response than if you were kind of be the person that's like, Oh, look at me, you know, I'm doing better than you.

Andy Follows: 28:35

And we've already heard that you had the social skills. You were one of the popular kids at school. So you clearly already came with some some attractive attractive to other people.

Karolina Bullock: 28:46

I'd like the think Yeah, I'm kind of easy to get on with people. Yeah, yeah. So that was that was relatively nice. And they were really appreciative of me kind of taking them through my process. And I was loving it, because I was like, Look at me, you know, I've managed to get this job. And I'm now helping people and hopefully, I'm proven myself and and maybe they will extend this contract when it comes up.

Andy Follows: 29:09

And I just wonder, you mentioned helping people, I just want to, I didn't comment on the fact that you spent two years as a carer working seven till 10 caring for people in their homes. Now that sounds like a very tough job, as well. And one that you would need to have, you know, some compassion and an empathy for people to do that. So that's another side of your character that you've evidenced so far on this journey. And we're still quite early in it. And also the fact that you seem always to recognise and appreciate the opportunities that you're given. So when you had this three month opportunity, you knew that this was an opportunity that you've got a foot in the door and every time you've given a foot in the door, it was okay, I'm going to prove myself I'm going to you're going to be glad you gave me this opportunity. And I'm going to make it work for us. So that's what you did and then they did they extend you?

Karolina Bullock: 30:00

They did, yeah, so they extended me offered me a full time position, and then kind of extended me. And I was then moved into the customer service team where I was able to speak to customers. And so I've kind of slowly taken on more and more responsibility. And then I became an office supervisor, which was really great. And I think, again, that came naturally, because I started picking up and dealing with bits that no one else was picking up. But I could see that they needed to be done. And that's what I tend to do. And I think I've done that throughout my career, I see something slipped in there, and I will pick it up. Whereas you will probably get some people just walk past it, I will actually pick it up and think to myself, Okay, let's see what this is and whether it needs to be moved or something like that. So again, that natural curiosity led me to pick up various different tasks and responsibilities that no one really was owning. And I started building the role. And, you know,

Andy Follows: 31:00

Did you see that sorry to interrupt Did you see that as part of your role, Karolina when you were supervising the office that it was to improve the processes across the business, and it was to make sure that these things that weren't being done, I can ask that question better. How did you see your role? What did you consider that your role was when you were doing that?

Karolina Bullock: 31:21

So I guess before I got the role is probably a better point is when I started obviously discovering these things that weren't we weren't being done any started doing them or started bringing them to my managers attention? And this is what initially created the understanding within the business. Oh, well, really, we should have somebody looking after me swings, because at the minute, we don't, and I think so, you know, that's partly not obviously in full. But that's what maybe prompted them to create the role which are they then talk in order to Yes, further improve that office environment life for people that work in another office, making sure that people enjoy the time in it and kind of everything's done from from a documents perspective, it's safe, and so on just looking at the bigger picture, rather than just focusing on the fewer responsibilities I've been given.

Andy Follows: 32:12

So that role didn't exist when you didn't know okay, but you your natural curiosity, your way of going about things, demonstrate it to the organisation that actually we're missing something here that the work that Karolina is doing is valuable, it's improving things, we should probably have a role for that. And who better to do it, I'm guessing was the thought who better to do it than Karolina?

Karolina Bullock: 32:34

Yeah, so that was great. And yeah, and I love that. And, I guess, between the one that I was also providing assistance to our underwriting team, when I was based in Gibraltar as well, so that was great, because it gave me some new skills that I could learn and understand. And I found that really interesting. So I started supporting them with processing anomalies. And working on kind of Bobby's insurer, the insurer, the box was the one that was the company that invented the black box, initially, in 2010. And so learning about how that works,

Andy Follows: 33:07

So that's the black box that goes in cars for feeding data back for insurance purposes, yeah.

Karolina Bullock: 33:13

Monitoring driving behaviour. And so I found all of that really fascinating. And so being able to support the underwriting team and their investigations and looking at the box data was, was really great. So yeah, so I did the best that I could with the opportunity. So all together, I guess, from starting in that temporary role to finish and as an office office manager, actually, I think so I've then progressed. And I don't remember at what point I progressed from an office supervisor to a manager, but I left as an office manager. And the reason I left is because we decided that we no longer wanted to live abroad and in Gibraltar, kind of took its toll on us. And we didn't obviously, we missed family. And it did get a little bit hot. You know, you're appreciated when you're on holidays, but when you have to live in it, it does get a bit more so. So after five, four and a half years of living in Gibraltar, and in Spain, we decided it was time to go back to the UK. And, again, thanks, thanks to the good relationship we had with the business and the hard work that obviously we've put in, and we were able to come back. And so my partner carried on his role. And I took a role that was being advertised at the time as facilities manager, because some of the other changes that were going on in the UK, and some other people had left the business and Eurodollar was created which was the experience that I had and and I guess the hard work and skills and you know, really being really ambitious and just getting stuff done. I think that's what I was known to people as as somebody that gets stuff done. And I was able to secure the position, which was amazing. Yeah, and there was so much to learn. And I think that's when really, for the first time, I realised how male dominated that sector was, because suddenly, I was attending meetings with different tenants and office landlords and companies that were worked with, because again, what I did is I kind of picked up a role that was created. But through my curiosity, I continued picking up new stuff that wasn't being done and just sitting around. And so the role grew bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.

Andy Follows: 35:36

You've used an expression when we've been talking before about when you get your feet under the table. So you take your time, first of all, to work out what's going on, but then you put your sticky gloves on.

Karolina Bullock: 35:47

Sticky gloves yeah

Andy Follows: 35:48

Yeah, say a little bit about the sticky gloves.

Karolina Bullock: 35:52

So yeah, so if somethings sitting in there, I will naturally pick it up just to see what it is and to see whether it should be sitting there. And I try to drill that into my teams and people that work for me, even now. Because this is how you progress. And this is how you learn. And you really need to be curious. You can't just keep walking past something and ignoring it. And I guess partly that maybe came from being in that facilities sector where you're always questioning and challenging.

Andy Follows: 36:21

Interesting. So thanks for for just dipping into that. So you had this role, it was very male dominated you are meeting landlord tenants, partners you're working with? And that's when you noticed, how male dominated it was? And what did that mean, for you, then how did that show up? And what were the implications?

Karolina Bullock: 36:41

Well, at first, we started meeting all the different facilities, directors and facilities managers and started seeing basically everybody was a man. And you could maybe even say, a middle middle aged white man. And so soon, I became the really young girl around the table that isn't English, and is still relatively young, and new to the sector, that had to somehow find the voice in that room in order that, you know, I wasn't seen as somebody that doesn't deliver any value. And always say, said, and always say it now, I hate being the person around the table that doesn't know what's going on, and having to sit there and feel that, you know, I don't really know what they're talking about. But I'll just stay quiet and hope that no one asks me a question. It's just something I really don't enjoy. So I'll always try and make sure that I never put myself in that situation. And then obviously, through that, and learning and being able to speak and add value to meetings, people naturally stand respect anyone thinking, well, actually, maybe yes, she is a young girl and what she does deliver value and what she's saying actually is making sense.

Andy Follows: 37:53

So how do you This is really valuable Karolina, how do you, given that you have the curiosity to keep putting yourself in situations where that could happen? Because you do keep moving and keep trying to get the next thing? So and you really have this feeling that you don't like being the one at around the table? Who doesn't know what's going on? How do you quickly sort of bridge the gap?

Karolina Bullock: 38:16

Well, I guess you just have to challenge yourself into do I really understand this subject? Do I really know enough about it? Or could I learn more? Could I find out more? kind of always just challenging.

Andy Follows: 38:28

Give me some examples, then because you recently we'll find out as we go through your story, you took on a significantly different new role in the last year or so. Yeah, yeah. So what did you do? To bring yourself up to speed? What sort of initiatives did you take on your own to be able to feel comfortable around the table?

Karolina Bullock: 38:50

I think I guess it's natural, obviously research. And again, just not only learn and naturally, you would learn the processes that the business has in place, but not just that, but in your head, taking it to the next steps and thinking, right, this is an area where I can definitely add value. So I'll write that down. And I'll come back to it once I'm embedded in the business, and I'm in the position to make those changes of proposals. But it's kind of looking for those areas where you can add value, or you can improve things and and rather than taking a process for what it is, because that's the process that someone's put in place, you know, both asking yourself, Is it effective? Is it efficient? How else could we potentially do it in the future?

Andy Follows: 39:32

So it's about the mindset that you adopted as you are being introduced to this new role to this new business thing. You are going to spend the next few weeks and months being exposed to lots of different things. And I will always be looking out for where do I think I can add value and I'll make a note of it. And I'll come back to it as soon as I can. After I've got my feet under the desk if you like so it's recognising my role here is to add value is to find ways to add value improve processes improve the way things are done. Okay.

Karolina Bullock: 40:04

And I think this is this is I guess what worked for me in terms of obviously being able to progress and being able to show the value that I add to the business, really, because there will be many people. And there's nothing wrong with that into doing what you're asked for, and nothing kind of outside of that. And that is fine. But then there are people that are always reaching out for more and just, I guess, curious and a lot of like, provoking questions, and always trying to not necessarily challenge others. But challenge, what do we have in place and trying to find solutions and improvements? And yeah,

Andy Follows: 40:42

yeah, so I took us a little bit I fast forwarded a little bit and I want to go back. So you were saying that through making sure you did understand what was going on, you were able to earn respect for yourself in this very masculine environment of not only masculine, but middle aged white men. You were a young foreign girl, and you were able through knowledge, and overtime, I guess, to demonstrate value.

Karolina Bullock: 41:07

Yeah. And I think that really helped me. And I guess, you know, if someone sees you, you know what you're talking about, and you know, your subject, then they will naturally start respecting you. And they'll see you as somebody that's equal to them, rather than potentially, you know, initially when they thought, Oh, well, what can this young girl add to our meeting?

Andy Follows: 41:26

Did you find it hard to be heard, then initially,

Karolina Bullock: 41:29

I don't think so. But, but that's again, because I'm determined, and I don't tend to be scared of. And again, I don't know where that came from. Because when I was, you know, younger, living in Poland, I probably was a totally different person to what I am now. But throughout my journey, I've become this really determined, try to be confident, of course, there will still be things that faze me and maybe things that I'm uncomfortable with, which again, I try and push myself into, in order to go to that next step. But maybe my personality helped me because actually, if I think about somebody else that may not be as confident and may not be as brave, maybe he's the word to use in terms of being able to try and position yourself against these male dominated figures and this powerful man, I imagine that many other girls, my age would have probably walked away because they would be uncomfortable. So I think you don't need that, right? I'm gonna do this. And I'm not gonna worry about what people think. As long as I'm delivering value, and I know that what I'm doing is, is great, then I'm gonna carry on and I'm not gonna let anything affect that. So I think you don't really need that.

Andy Follows: 42:42

This is a really great segment, Karolina I think very interesting. And I'm, as you're describing it, I'm thinking back over what I now know about you as a result of our conversation, and which aspects can you talk about confidence. And I think we get confidence when we try difficult things, and we achieve them. And then we think I can do that. And if I think about examples from your story way, that probably happened, you achieved at school, you probably had a demanding childhood where it was just you and your sisters and your mom going away, you didn't have your mum there a lot of the time. So you will have had to have achieved things, the three of you, that will have helped build confidence, then you had the courage to leave Poland and go and visit family and work in the UK, doing fairly tough jobs where your confidence would have grown. And then the chicken factory, I'm sure the environment was pretty robust and masculine there and you'd have had to have held your head up and got stuck in and then being a care worker again, you're out there on your own and facing maybe some difficult people and getting this there's there's there's a gradual build up of layer on layer of challenging things you've done, overcome achieved, that I'm guessing would have built your confidence up and then going moving abroad again to Gibraltar and breaking into an office environment with a CV that said potato strawberries and chickens which I love. And and then succeeding at that. So there's all the your confidence building activities on seeing, does it feel like that to you?

Karolina Bullock: 44:19

It does and it's not like I didn't make mistakes, because I did and everyone does, but I'll try to learn from them. If I make a mistake, then I'll take it on the chin and then I'll learn from it. I'll identify what I could have done better. And I will try to take that approach next time. Because most of you might make mistakes, especially when you're learning. It's having the ability to just move past it and try not to do it again. Rather than you know, put yourself down or think oh, well maybe I'm not good enough for this and maybe I can't do it. It's just okay, I've made a mistake and partly might be down to the mentors that I've had in the past and people that I used to report in to have supported me and to build in that person that is really confident and knows they can do everything if they work hard for it, because actually, all of my managers in the past were really supportive and really, I think helped score the person that I am now, Is there a story that stands out for you, or comes to mind easily about a manager or a mentor who has helped you. So I guess nothing specifically, not a specific story, although I don't have a favourite manager and at the heart, and what I liked about the management style that he took with me is that he used to push me into bringing him solutions rather than questions or problems. And that really made me think differently of my role and how I should be approaching my work. Because naturally, everyone will have their comfort blanket at work. And somebody, they can always ask questions, and somebody will, that will never judge them and any stand relying on that. But actually, if you want to challenge yourself and improve and get better, then you kind of have to remove that and ask yourself, what would that person say? And then I'll do that. So this particular manager used to do that to me, and I would approach him and say, Listen, this is the situation, what should we do? In would always say, what would you do? And force that thinking? And really drill that into you? And then I would never really then every time I would naturally think to approach him for something I'd think, right? He's gonna ask me what I would do. So I need to have a think about this. Before I do anything, so I think that really, really helped actually, and this is something that really stuck with me.

Andy Follows: 46:39

We have a policy if you like, if that's not too strong a word of calling out those good leaders and managers. So if you if you want to name him, please do we tend not to name the bad ones, just to keep ourselves out of trouble. But do you want to name him?

Karolina Bullock: 46:53

Yeah, of course. Andy Preacher, he was my manager for a few years. In my previous role when I was head of facilities,

Andy Follows: 47:00

What I like about that story is the fact that he took that approach, it started to take effect, even when you weren't sort of asking him anything. So before you approached him, you would be asking yourself, okay, he's gonna say, what would I do, so I better know what it is I would do before I get there. And you also then that this lovely concept of when we are good leaders, good managers, good coaches, we end up being carried around in the heads of the people that we've helped, and influencing them, even when we're not there that the phrase you use early about, you may say, Well, what would what would he say? What would he have me do? That happens continues to happen when we've been impacted by great managers, leaders, coaches, say thanks for sharing that. You know, just I see a lot of really good ingredients currently. And this is what I noticed when we first met, which was probably I don't know, a year, 18 months ago, I guess. And we sat down, we had a conversation. And I thought, then it's all about having this set of great ingredients, which mean that you can face a different challenge, and you've got the core ingredients that are going to help you be able to deal with it. And I think your story is a lovely example of that. So where are we up to now you've got this role as facilities manager, it's a very male dominated environment, but you've through adding value, knowing your stuff, not letting things sit there that shouldn't sit there being curious, you've managed to get on with it, and have a voice around the table and be respected by your peers. So tell us how that developed them.

Karolina Bullock: 48:42

So yeah, so soon enough, I joined the business back in the UK. And again, obviously, you learned what the expectation of the role was, and then started delving into what else you know, could possibly not be getting done that should be getting done. And with that, I did a lot of land. And I was relatively new to kind of that health and safety world, although obviously I supported a browser office, but there was a lot to learn. And so I completed a number of qualifications in the facilities management, space, health and safety space in order that could the novel would support me and provide the foundations to my knowledge, so that are enjoyed very much learning new stuff. And again, being able to then have that behind me, you know, to support me being able to do this role and people believing that I can do this role.

Andy Follows: 49:32

Yeah. So because you because of financial limitations, you'd had to sort of cut short your formal education at 18. And when you got the opportunity to go back to it, you enjoyed that. And you also enjoyed the feeling of having the qualifications behind you as well. Yeah.

Karolina Bullock: 49:49

And because of the business paid for the qualifications, the approach I was right, okay, this isn't something that I need to pay for, and I should take advantage of and learn as much as I can. unwholesome in this, you know, in this position. So that's what I did. So I kind of started with the lower qualifications that led me to go and up to a diploma level to a degree equal qualification which, which I did in facilities management, health and safety. And then I just continued grow in the role really, initially, when I started, the role of business continuity was something that was being managed by another area of the business by it. And again, I started working closer Well, naturally, I was working closely with them anyway, but started questioning whether we should whether we should be doing more in that space. And that's how I kind of took on the business continuity part of the business as well, which typically tends to set separately from facilities management, again, I guess, depending on the size of the business. So I took that challenge on land, everything about business continuity, there is to learn, again, the qualification and Business Continuity Management diploma, and started supporting the business with that. And so kind of grabbing all these bits that needed to and and taken that on, made the role, a really significant role. And, and, and I became a head of facilities. And I'd like to think that people really did rely on me, and they saw me as a person that would get stuff done. But not just that, but would be able to drive the business and kind of provide that that leadership and that strategy in terms of where what we should be looking at and where we should be going from that perspective, there's a lot of planning that needs to happen with within facilities, because obviously, you have to make sure the buildings are safe, and you need to do certain checks, and, and maintenance and all of that stuff. So in terms of planning ahead, in order that the business was safe, and people within that office were safe. I think that's where I'm actually that structuring and planning. And that's where that comes from in my thinking, I guess. So yeah, so that was really good. And I did that for quite a few years. I think, since I promoted to head of facilities, probably the role for about three years, maybe just over three years, to the point where I kind of felt like I did, everything was the role. And I was openly told by my manager that I hit the ceiling. And because of the size of the business, there wasn't a need for me to grow, and there wasn't a need for a facilities director. And if that was my ambition, then I would have to unfortunately go to a different business, which will be see they didn't want to happen. But at the same time, they didn't want to stop me progressing, because they know how ambitious I am. So that was a bit of a disappointment, because I hated the fact that I knew that that was it. And I've kind of hit the ceiling. And and this is it. Alright, well, here we are. So is this where I'm now gonna stay. And, you know, I've just over 30, I wasn't really comfortable with that, although I understood, you know, it is what it is no one's stopping me from progress. And I could progress in a different business. Although I was very loyal to that business, because they were the ones that initially gave me that chance. And I was working with them for 13 years. When then when a role within Toyota Insurance Services came up as a General Manager of Corporate Strategy and Planning, I read that job spec. And I thought this is really I can see this as something that would again, make a huge difference. And naturally transferable skills in terms of planning and strategic kind of thinking ahead. So that was something that obviously I was comfortable with, again, my expertise lay within the abilities and kind of health and safety not with the automotive sector. And although the company I worked for, I only stayed out, or an automotive company, because of my role, I wasn't really close to that I was more worried about buildings and making sure that, you know, the business continues to operate and no matter what. So that was something that obviously I've never experienced before didn't really have any great knowledge on. But I knew that I couldn't use the transferable skills, so they don't have to apply within this role. And the rest of the stuff you can learn, if you have the right mindset, you can really I mean, there will be limitations, but you can learn a lot if you're determined enough. And so I decided that you know what, I'm feeling a bit flat here, because you know, I've kind of hit the ceiling, I don't really want to leave the business. And this was kind of an internal move, if you will. So I didn't have to leave the business, I'm still part of the business I used to work for. And that was something that would provide me with a huge exposure in terms of building up my name and network and and meeting new people and getting myself out there to what my previous role did. And it would, again put me back into that area that I thrive in where you have to learn and you have to it was a so another little project. And that's how I like to approach things sometimes as well pick something up and make it better. And because this was a brand new role, and obviously it's Talking with my current manager and the areas that needed to be improved, and picked up and managed going forward. I really saw it as a really great opportunity, as from my personal perspective to learn and again, challenge myself, absorb new stuff, and then also be that person like that maybe add value and support the business and, you know, feel that fulfilment through that.

Andy Follows: 55:25

How did you feel about the fact that you've given this opportunity, given your lack of sector knowledge?

Karolina Bullock: 55:32

Yeah, I was really appreciative because Jason, my current manager did really, I guess, written not not necessarily risky. But he took a chance, taking me on because obviously, he knew that I didn't have that much automotive knowledge or experience. But I think he saw the mindset and he saw those transferable skills that actually you could apply in most environments. And the rest of it, you can learn rarely, if you're determined enough, then you will learn.

Andy Follows: 56:00

So he recognised that you had the core ingredients to be successful at this,

Karolina Bullock: 56:04

Which is really nice, because you often don't see, you know, people applying for roles. And unless you have certain experience, or a certain or a numbers, or a number of years of experience in a certain aspect, you're just not gonna get through. So it's nice to see it, it was really refreshing actually, to see someone take a different approach to it and think, Well, actually, if somebody has the right mindset, and is willing to learn, then why not? What could go wrong. So that was really nice, actually. Yeah, and so since I started, I throw myself into learning asking stupid questions, because there's never a stupid question, if you learn and, and just trying to always dig deeper in terms of okay, well, I've learned how this works, what how does it work? Before it gets to this point, and how what happens after and always kind of challenging myself to learn in the bits of the process, that aren't within my responsibility, somebody else's kind of managing that? Well, that's the like to understand how that works. So that when I do have a conversation with someone, I've got that full understanding rather than becoming just becoming an expert in that one bit of it that I'm responsible for.

Andy Follows: 57:18

So it's that curiosity, again, and a real appetite to genuinely understand what's going on here before this after this.

Karolina Bullock: 57:27

And I think again, it goes back to that I hate being that person around the table that hates not knowing what's going on. So I always try and do everything I can. And, you know, it still happens, I'm not gonna lie, it does happen. Because naturally, you know, I'm in this new sector that is huge and complex. And then, you know, four years on, I'll probably continue learning. But then I, when, when I am in that situation, that I will leave that room, and I will make sure that I find out and learn about the bit that I didn't understand. So then there are less and less of these scenarios happening.

Andy Follows: 58:01

And that was about a year that you've been in this role.

Karolina Bullock: 58:04

So I started in March 2023. So just under a year, and I'd like the finger probably learned, I've picked up a significant amount of knowledge. Obviously, I continue to learn and continue asking questions, I've got a team that I need to lead and develop. So that really is a satisfying as well. And I try and drill in the same kind of mindset and approach aspects that I've used in the past that worked for me, in order that you know, they can see what value they deliver. And they can learn and stretch themselves. Always challenge themselves never get too comfortable. Because you could actually always do it that tiny bit better. And yeah, from the feedback I've had from the team and Jason, I think that they're very happy that I joined the team and continue adding value. So yes, I'm really happy with that app. And I'll just continue trying to deliver. Yes.

Andy Follows: 58:58

Excellent. And is there anything I haven't asked you, Karolina, that means I've missed an opportunity in terms of something that stands out for you in your career journey or your life journey. Have I missed any golden nuggets?

Karolina Bullock: 59:12

I don't think so. Not that anything comes to mind right now.

Andy Follows: 59:15

Okay. Well, thank you so much for joining me, as I say I met you about, yeah, probably about 18 months ago, and it was a pleasure. And I recognised in you then in our very first conversation, some of these ingredients that you've shared so openly with us today by talking to us about your journey. And I love the approach you take and I love sharing your story with my listeners so that they can also hear what's possible if you've got the mindset and the curiosity and you keep building your confidence by trying new things and achieving them and having the mindset that I will make mistakes but that's okay. It's all part of the process. So I very appreciative for you joining me today and sharing all of that with us. Thank you very much.

Karolina Bullock: 1:00:04

Thanks, Andy. And thanks so much for listening.

Andy Follows: 1:00:11

You've been listening to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR with me, Andy Follows depending on your unique life experience where you finding yourself right now and your personal goals, you'll have your own takeaways from Karolina story. Some elements that stood out for me were how clearly it emerges that she possesses a set of ingredients or characteristics that have enabled her to develop her career and will continue to do so going forward. There's no doubt that she had a challenging start, and a desire to create something better. She had enough raw intelligence to find schoolwork relatively easy, and she possessed the emotional intelligence and characteristics to be popular at school. When the opportunity arose at the age of 18. She had the courage to go and visit her cousins in the UK. Throughout her story, she demonstrates an appetite for hard work, and an appreciation that it was necessary for her longer term plan. She exhibits a natural curiosity to learn the broader aspects of any role. She had the confidence to move to Gibraltar with her boyfriend. When someone offered her an opportunity to work in the insurance business there. She knew how to appreciate it, she grasped it and she committed to do her best. Once she'd entered that office environment. She had the ability to perform at a high level to improve processes, and the skills and personality to persuade others to try the new approach. She finds it natural to pick up tasks that seem not to be getting done and to get them done. in new situations. She's uncomfortable not knowing what people are talking about or what's going on. So she makes significant effort to bridge any gaps in her knowledge. This feeds her innate need to be constantly growing and learning. These are some of the reasons I'm proud to share Karolina's story with you. If you'd like to connect with Karolina we'll put her contact details in the show notes to this episode. If you enjoy listening to my guest stories, please could you do me a favour and share an episode with someone you lead parent or mentor or perhaps a friend of yours who you think would also enjoy listening? Thank you to Karolina for joining me for our conversation. Thank you to our sponsors for this episode, ASKE Consulting and Aquilae and thank you to the CAREER-VIEW MIRROR team without whom we would not be able to share our guests life and career stories. And above all, thank you to you for listening.