Stéphane Crasnier: the car fan embracing the chance to lead change and people in France, China and Australia.

In this episode we are celebrating the career to date of Stéphane Crasnier.

Stéphane is Group Chief Officer Fleet & Operations at Europcar Mobility Group a role he's held since September 1st 2023. Prior to joining Europcar Stéphane enjoyed an 18 year career with BMW Group during which he held roles in corporate sales, sales volume planning, fleet management and leasing in France, China and Australia, culminating with him being the President and Managing Director of Alphabet France.

He describes himself as still a car fan who embraces the chance to lead change & people. He's a happy man in a challenging environment!

In our conversation we talk about the leadership opportunities he had at school, how his father's role gave him early exposure to thinking internationally, his experience of military service and his progression through a series of corporate roles, first with Heineken and then in the automotive industry. Stéphane shares how he negotiated his first international assignment and what he learned from working overseas.

I first met Stéphane in China when we worked together on a post merger integration project after I'd left BMW. I was delighted to get this opportunity to sit down with him and learn more about his life and career journey. I'm happy to share his story now and I look forward to hearing what resonates with you.

If you're listening for the first time, hello, I'm Andy Follows. I'm a trusted advisor to senior leaders in the automotive industry. I work alongside them and their teams to enable Fulfilling Performance. If you'd like to know more about Fulfilling Performance, you can sign up for our weekly newsletter. In it you will find easily digestible ideas on how to increase levels of performance and fulfilment for yourself and those you lead and care about.

Connect with Stéphane:
LinkedIn: Stéphane Crasnier

Thank you to our sponsors:
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Email: hello@askeconsulting.co.uk

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Email: cvm@aquilae.co.uk
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If you'd like to know more about Fulfilling Performance, check out Release the handbrake! - The Fulfilling Performance Hub

Episode recorded on  8 April, 2024.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome, childhood and school
• 9:24 Career thoughts on leaving school, Business School and the Motor Industry
• 12:35 Mandatory military training
• 17:27 A short spell with Heineken before starting in used car sales and progressing the Dealer Principle
• 23:50 Moving to a Ford Dealership near Geneva and building a team
• 27:14 Move to Paris to work at PSA in Corporate Sales
• 31:14 Opportunity at BMW leads to 18 years with the company
• 40:29 The impact of trust
• 48:50 Joining Alphabet as MD, aquiring ING Car Lease and cultural challenges
• 1:02:45 Taking the decision to move to China
• 1:10:13 A brief spell in Australia before returning to Paris as CEO of Alphabet France
• 1:20:49 Deciding to leave BMW in search of challenges elsewhere and joining Europcar
• 1:27:46 Wrapping Up and Takeaways

Transcript

Stéphane Crasnier: 0:00

I took all of them in the same room. And I said to them, guys, listen, everything we have done together. Perfect. So you trust me. So because you trust me I'm asking you to sign and I will take care of you. And that was the biggest mistake Andy because they signed.

Aquilae: 0:21

Welcome to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers to share insights to help you with your own journey. Here's your host, Andy Follows

Andy Follows: 0:35

Hello, listeners, Andy here. Thank you for tuning in. We appreciate that you do. We're also very grateful for our guests who generously joined me to create these episodes so that we can celebrate their careers listen to their stories, and learn from their experiences. In this episode, we're celebrating the career to date of Stephane Crasnier. Stephane is Group Chief Officer Fleet and Operations at Europcar Mobility Group, a role he's held since September the first, 2023 Prior to joining Europcar Stephane enjoyed an 18 year career with BMW Group, during which he held roles in corporate sales, sales, volume planning, fleet management and leasing in France, China and Australia culminated with him being the President and Managing Director of Alphabet France. He describes himself as still a car fan who embraces the chance to lead change and people. He's a happy man in a challenging environment. In our conversation, we talked about the leadership opportunities he had at school, how his father's role gave him early exposure to thinking internationally. His experience of military service and his progression through a series of corporate roles, first with Heineken and then in the automotive industry. Stephane shares how he negotiated his first international assignment and what he learned from working overseas. I first met Stephane in China when we worked together as part of a post merger integration project after I'd left BMW. I was delighted to get this opportunity to sit down with him and learn more about his life and career journey. I'm happy to share his story now and I look forward to hearing what resonates with you. If you're listening for the first time. Hello, I'm Andy Follows I'm a trusted adviser to senior leaders in the automotive industry. I work alongside them and their teams to enable fulfilling performance. If you'd like to know more about fulfilling performance, you can sign up for our weekly newsletter. In it, you'll find easily digestible ideas on how to increase levels of performance and fulfilment for yourself, and those you lead and care about. Go to Andyfollows.substack.com, or use the link in the show notes to this episode. Hello, Stephane and welcome. And where are you coming to us from today?

Stéphane Crasnier: 3:06

Hi Andy, exceptionally I'm based in Biarritz today. But you know, I'm usually in Paris.

Andy Follows: 3:12

Well, thank you very much for joining me, you're most welcome. And I'd like to start as I do with all my guests by asking, Where did your journey begin? Where were you born?

Stéphane Crasnier: 3:22

So I grew up in West of France. So in a city called Nants or close to Nantes, and yes, I did more or less all my education over there. Right.

Andy Follows: 3:33

And I like to find out a little bit about your family situation, brothers and sisters. And what did you see your mum and dad doing? What jobs did they have?

Stéphane Crasnier: 3:42

Yeah, um, so first of all, I'm 49. And married. I've got two boys 20 and 17 years old, two dogs, one cats. So that's the current family in a sense. So my background or the family background in was was quite clear. So my father was working in this side of French West of France. He was a sales director for a shoe company. And my mother was not working. But and I've got also one brother

Andy Follows: 4:13

is your brother older or younger, four years older, did he pave the way a little bit with your parents. Did they learn some skills through him and make your life a little bit easier? Did you notice that at all? So your father clearly had a commercial, he was

Stéphane Crasnier: 4:26

Absolutely. We had a lot of discussion, especially with my brother as he was again very successful in the a successful commercial career he had, and that gave you some way he was driving his career. And of course, it was it was a kind of source of inspiration for me. The fact that he has decided again to stop because right now he has decided to go totally different direction today. It was also kind of shock for me as a first reaction. But then the second one was also to say that it was a way to think as well for me that there is other roles, like I saw as well my other colleagues stopping their career and to move to different different landscapes. And for my father, it was more kind of working style inspiration. He was a super hard worker working all the time travelling all over the world, I was pretty proud about the fact that he was discovering the world. And we were discovering the world with him, in a sense, and that was also probably one insights, that that was a possibility for you. Did you thing, which was a good thing for me to be bold enough to move move internationally as a family? Or did he do this from to China, Australia, during my career as an example. France? No, no, he did this from France. And, but he was still very travelling all over the world, because again, he had a lot of partnership in Japan, in the US, South Africa, everywhere in the world. And for us, you know, coming from West of France, it was quite unique in a sense, at that time, I we talked about the 80s. And the, I'm sure I'm sure we, my brother and I, by the way, because my brother also lived abroad in the US especially, it was it was an inspiration for us. Yeah.

Andy Follows: 6:12

And so I sometimes imagine what the conversation around the dinner table might have been like, in the different guests houses that I speak to. And so it would have been an international conversation, there would have been conversations about different places that your father had visited and done business.

Stéphane Crasnier: 6:28

Yeah it was a kind of a first step for embracing diversity. Because again, moving to Japan, or Saudi Arabia, or the US, we were talking about culture, by the way. And at that time, in the in the 80s or 90s, it was easier in a sense to discuss about this kind of diversity, because it was pretty natural. And we were so open to learn from that. And as a consequence, to accept as well differences. And I'm really convinced and motivated by the fact that the more you know about the others, the better it will be to embrace differences. That's one of the key elements I learned. And I tried as well to convey into my career. Having people coming from different environments. It's more than helpful for an organisation.

Andy Follows: 7:22

Absolutely. And how about school, then, Stephane, how would your teachers have described you?

Stéphane Crasnier: 7:31

I was quite committed to what I was doing. But you know, I was I don't know what what's the right word, the English, you know, when you are the one speaking on behalf of the others. So you have to be elected for that. And all the years I've been that guy, I was quite happy with this. Because also, I was not embracing especially to be in front of the scene. That was not the point. But I discovered across the years that I was quite comfortable and happy with this. That was probably the first for me, where to discover what leadership could be. And I was really enjoying the fact to talk and to take care of, by the way about my classmates and this. And I precisely remember one time where I was in front of all the parents defending a class mate projects, and that was, you know, the trigger saying, Okay, I like that stuff. And I was happy for, for for the classmate. I was happy for the classroom, I was happy to say, Yeah, we are doing something together. And that was fine.

Andy Follows: 8:34

Okay, so what I'm picking up from that is you were a diligent student, you took it seriously, what you were doing, there must have been an element of trust from your classmates, for you to be voted to be that what we might call a class representative. And a self awareness, a responsibility that you enjoyed taking on that role, and doing those tasks, not for the spot not to be in the spotlight, but you appreciated the responsibility and taking care of your colleagues, your classmates. So that's interesting. And what sort of age would you have been when you were the self awareness to notice that you like okay, this is I quite like this. I quite like having this responsibility and representing my classmates, what what sort of age was this Stephane?

Stéphane Crasnier: 9:20

I was 16. And yes, that was definitely an eye opener,

Andy Follows: 9:24

and what sort of ideas were you having about the direction that you might want to go in when you have at so

Stéphane Crasnier: 9:30

I was already at that time a car fan, my father, by the way, it was a car fan, especially BMW car fan. So I was saying okay, and I was a big fan of drawing things as well. And I say okay, probably I would dream about designing cars. But unfortunately, I was not good enough because you are you should be super super good in mathematics, so as to become a designer and engineer and designing things and especially for the car industry. So I then had to go for the plan B, I said, If I cannot design the cars, then I have to sell these cars. And then I said, Okay, let's go for a business school, do my best work for an OEM. And that would be super good for me. And I will be happy to do so that was definitely the red line, or the dotted line for me for for my career.

Andy Follows: 10:22

And did you realise that early enough to be able to make some good decisions while still at school? In terms of what subjects to study and where to apply? And these sorts of questions.

Stéphane Crasnier: 10:35

Honestly, no, no, at that time, that um, you know, especially in the French educational system, you have not not not so many choices.

Andy Follows: 10:42

No it's kept very broad. Yeah?

Stéphane Crasnier: 10:45

Absolutely, so you are following you know, common path going for the baccalaureate when your best was to get the best results possible, and then going for the best business school you can have. So that was quite logical as soon as I decided to go for business school, than to go through these kind of mechanisms. That was obvious. And then I came to the Business School of Andre, which is one of the top 12 of the of the French market, dreaming about integrating an OEM company.

Andy Follows: 11:16

So it was fine, because you would have been kept broad. Anyway, there weren't options to narrow it down. And when you went to business school, you were already thinking about joining a car company at that point. Yeah. Any particular stories from business school, any any learnings or lessons that you can recall any incidents there that have shaped you

Stéphane Crasnier: 11:40

No, of course, a lot, a lot. It was, four enjoyable years. The first year I was enjoying so much life that, that that was close to fail, at first, to be honest. But then except know that I had a lot of interaction in the car industry at that time already. Because all my trainings, you know, were my training programme, sorry, were with a car rental companies like I work for Peugeot at that time. And for Ford Motor Company at that time, I did a special programme related to car industry in that business school. So it was all about cars. So it was super clear for me that I was going there. Super, super clear

Andy Follows: 12:23

Really good that you knew what you wanted to do. So you were able to integrate into your already into your university years or your business school years, you're able to integrate automotive projects and spend time in automotive companies. So when you came to the end of your university years, what were your options there? And how did you go about securing your first position.

Stéphane Crasnier: 12:43

So first of all Andy I had no option at that time, because, you know, it was still the military program in France, which was mandatory. So as a consequence, when you are sitting, in fact, the business school, you have to go to the army. I went to the army, it's in a region, you know, East of France, which is not famous for being probably the the most appealing one sorry for the guys from the East of France. But you know, and it was in a very, very tough regime up over there. But I met my best friend over there. So it was in 1996. We were binome you know, two of us and and we did all this military training together. And it was outstanding, because it was tough. But it was the first experience for me for such a tough discipline, in a sense, I was not used to this kind of camaraderie was I was super used to because when I was at school, that was already a case. But that was reinforcing me the fact that yes, again, we can do things together. And back to to gain leadership. It was also now I'm talking and discovering this by myself, by the way, in preparing this, it was also a super good way for testing my leadership as well. Because same had the chance to be promoted, you know, to a more senior level in terms of I don't know how to call this in English, you know, when you are leiutenant,

Andy Follows: 14:12

a rank

Stéphane Crasnier: 14:12

Rank, and I passed all these kinds of tests successfully. So I became the one of my of my squad. And I was really happy with this because then it was a good way for us to again go with this squad, moving things in a frame of the army. Don't get me wrong. But it was it was outstanding. Honestly, I was super, super happy. And by the way, a bit proud of having done my my military services.

Andy Follows: 14:39

And was that two years, Stephane that you did

Stéphane Crasnier: 14:42

No,no. At that time, it was only only one that? year. So it was it was you know, because again, you were investing in your business school, then you got the army and then you have to come back to the to the workplace. So for my parents especially it was tough, but now I can share something with you. At the end of the military service it was at that time, you know, the war in, in Serbia, and then at the end of the service, then the army to my best friend and I and they said, Okay, you're good guys. So would you like to embrace the military career and by the way to go to Yugoslavia, and honestly, we thought about this seriously. Because we said, okay, there is a meaning in there, we need people like us so as to protect or to take care of or to behave in a proper way. But then we are questioning ourself as well about the investment of our parents, you know, paying for these business school about the dream about the cars and all this kind of stuff. So it's, it was kind of trade off and then okay, I will say, Okay, what should I do? And we said, Okay, no, let's, let's keep the traditional way, but I was really happy with this military experience to be fair, it's pretty funny, by the way, because my oldest son is embracing as well this this way, because he will like to go for the Special Forces

Andy Follows: 15:59

Right. And do you feel that you've discovered meaning in the work that you've been doing since in the same way that you could see that? Well, this would be an easy, easy choice from terms of finding meaningful work to stay in the military? Have you been able to find meaning in automotive? Yes,

Stéphane Crasnier: 16:17

of course, of course. In fact, I guess, at that time, it was not obvious, or it wasn't conscious, that I was looking for this kind of stuff. But after a couple of years of experience, now, this is probably the most important elements of the way I'm driving my career. It's the meaning it's the why I'm doing this kind of stuff, why I'm investing so much time in there. And we'll talk about this about the next experiences. And that's exactly the purpose I'm working. So enjoying the fact that at least, I do believe that I've got a strong meaning in what I'm doing. And if not, then probably have to shift or to change. But without this nowhere for me

Andy Follows: 17:01

Going back then to the the end of that 12 months, when you have that decision to make and you chose the more traditional route, you chose to respect the investment that your parents had made and the original path and the dream that you had been working towards. So what happened then,

Stéphane Crasnier: 17:18

so to be totally inconsistent with what I said previously,

Andy Follows: 17:22

I love that honesty.

Stéphane Crasnier: 17:23

I was dreaming about cars. But then a company came to me when I was at the military service, like normally these kind of companies are coming after the business school to grab you. And that was the company named Heineken, of course with a very decent salary, good proposals. So you cannot say no to that kind of stuff. And I was a bit lazy just to say, okay, probably have to say no to wait for an OEM offer, and so on. So I said yes to Heineken. So immediately after the military services, I've started to sell beers in this retail retail industry. So that was a good experience, because one thing I've discovered with Heineken was the the company culture. I was very impressed. Because all the trainings we had at the beginning was about company's values, company culture. And that was pretty new for me at that time, because they had a very strong company culture, they were proud about what they were doing. And that was, that was really outstanding. And that's a good company, by the way. And then I started to work, visiting, you know, these super big supermarkets in France and, and to promote all the brands of Heineken. It was for six months, and then had again, another offer. And this offer was coming that time from a large dealer group named at that time [name] become, which becomes then the[name] and now [name]. Okay, so it's a huge retail organisations. So they came to me and they said, Stephane, you just been graduate from your business school, will you have to join to a special programme where you will start as a sales guy, used car sales guy, you will then become a new car sales guy and then a chief on the sales team, and then you will lead a dealer. Are you okay with that path? And I said, Yes, of course, I'm super happy with them, which was at the time quite shocking, because you know, all my peers coming from business schools, and we're all dreaming about big jobs already. And on my side, I was accepting to start, as you know, a used car sales guy, which is not exactly what you could expect when you're coming from a business school. But I was super happy with this because I said, Okay, probably like my father did. Let's start from the bottom, learn from them, and then enjoy, because at least I will have a fit in the car industry.

Andy Follows: 19:56

It was getting you into the industry you dreamed of but it sounds like you were also quite comfortable with with learning from the shop floor.

Stéphane Crasnier: 20:05

Yeah and trust me when you are because I was in Toulouse at that time, by the way, where I met my wife, and trading used cars in Toulouse at that time was not as compliant business, as you could imagine, you know, in our current world, compliance is not probably the right word. But you know, it was a tricky business in a sense. And I said, Well, that's, that's pretty weird but I was learning from this, you know, old used car guys and saying, Okay, I understand that this cannot happen in that way. But then I was learning learning a lot and discovering this business, which was highly driven by experience at that time, [name] my boss was so tough that it was also super strong education for me, because he was really depending on us. But I was I was super motivated. And I was super happy with, with this kind of, of where to go, in essence,

Andy Follows: 21:03

had they laid out a timeline for this career progression?

Stéphane Crasnier: 21:07

Officially it was three years path to become then this small dealer principle. But anyway, it was highly depending on you. Meaning that if you are good, then you are progressing. If you're not, you're not so so I was a used car sales guy for a couple of months, then new car sales guys quite rapidly, then I was in charge of a small subsidiary of the main dealer in Toulouse super rapidly as well. And that was fascinating for me, because then I was learning, learning, learning, learning. And as the old man was so demanding that I was super happy with this working night, and as well, that was, that was pretty nice. And also having decent results. Till the moment where they said, Okay, you will move to [name], which is a city, south to Toulouse, and it will be in charge of this outlet as well with this famous boss till the moment where the guy was so, so tough. Rude is not probably the right word, because I've got good memories of him. But he was so tough in a sense that in our modern world, this cannot happen. And I said, okay, then I will stop there. Because I'm not accepting, you know, these kind of rude or aggressive principles. I'm going to quit.

Andy Follows: 22:26

How was it? I'm just thinking Stephane, because you explained how when you started at Heineken, how much emphasis was placed on culture and values at the beginning of that journey? And how impressed you were by that? Was it a bit of a shock then to come into an environment? Which sounds very different?

Stéphane Crasnier: 22:44

Yeah absolutely. That was a very aggressive environment, very challenging environment, highly male dominated, limited diversity in the people I was with. That was at that time what what the dealership was, it was a very, very masculine world, you know very aggressive one. So I was not that comfortable with and so as to be frank, and probably I was recruiting Yes, probably the values on the culture of Heineken and looking for something different. And when had the chance to move to another organisation close to Geneva, in Switzerland? Of course, I was hired by somebody who knew me. And I was feeling more comfortable with the values that the organisation than the previous one, that was what I was looking for. And again, it was not conscious at that time. But now it's fully conscious, meaning that it was clearly and that was one of my takeaway, I would never join a company. If there is a mismatch mismatch between me and the culture of the company, not complaining about the culture of the company, but just saying there is a mismatch. I'm not that one.

Andy Follows: 23:50

So you decide did you decide to join the dealership near Geneva

Stéphane Crasnier: 23:55

Yes. absolutely. And that was another challenge. Because when I came when I came there, in fact, I had three three dealerships over the last three smalls across the borders, the Geneva borders. And unfortunately, at that time, that was probably one the reason why they selected me and the all the team has left with a shot. So nobody was there. No sales guys, nothing. Nobody said well, why. And then I've started to send to hire the people. And that was, again, a kind of eye opener. It's all about people. But again, I'm saying this sincerely. I'm not saying because you know, all these fancy word sentences about people and blah, blah, blah, but no, I was really looking for good people matching or having kind of chemistry with me, you know. And by the way, I met I had hired at that time, my second best friend, and that guy just for the story, it's quite funny because that guy was selling wine in this region. He was a local hero in selling wine, but he was fed up with wine. And then he came to And he said, Okay, I would like to try the car industry and to sell cars. And the guy had all the traits I was looking to, you know, hard working, he seems to be loyal, honest. And I said, Okay, let's go, go go. And then I had that guy as my b2b sales salesman. And it was a successful story, by the way, this guy now is a BMW dealer, you know, is so so we had a long journey together, and super good man, obviously, and so back back to the story. So I had all the team, it was super diverse team, I will not disclose where some of them were coming from. But it was really high diversity in the team, but immediately became a very successful team. Because first of all, they were enjoying to be all together. And we were starting from zero, we had to rebuild the whole thing. So it was in a Ford deadership. And the boss in charge of that company named [name], was super open to let me do things, I was pretty young. But I don't know why she had a kind of trust. And then I was starting to try things. And especially, you know, in the dealer activity you've got every morning, you know, catch up session, very aggressive, very challenging, what have you done yesterday? Why tells me blah, blah, blah. So I tried to change a bit this kind of mechanism to avoid these kind of top down approach. And please justify yourself What have you done and and then we have started to create other formats, including the people around us from Ford Financial Services, or people helping us. And we created these kind of good vibes in the team. And then the team became, became quite successful, especially in selling. I don't know if you know that a thing called [name], which is a balloon product, financial balloon product, very efficient, where you need to train drastically your people, but when Yeah, when they are good at that, then get success ratio, which is 80%. And the team become the best in France in selling that, that balloon products, financial product, but that was for two years and you were in that role for two years, even less than two years. Because same so my wife come with me in she was student at that time in the region of Ginetta. But she was not finding the right job in Switzerland. And option for her in the place where we were because she was working the hotel industry. And then the only way you know as a as a normal French people, French person where you can find job is in Paris. So we had to move to Paris to find something different, where two of us can work, in fact, in a proper way. And that's where I changed from the deal organisation at Ford to PSR PSA at that time. So [name] for corporate sales.

Andy Follows: 27:57

Right? So you managed to secure yourself a role with PSA in Paris in a corporate sales. How did you find it then, going into PSA,

Stéphane Crasnier: 28:07

I guess the main driver of that decision was the best way to have a decent career in France is to go to Paris, and especially if you're two and, statistically, if you like to have two of us were ambitious was to do something, then we had to move to Paris, it was not an option. And the second thing was all the OEMs and I was still dreaming about being part of a year the organisation was outstanding. I'm super happy with this. But I was also dreaming about what you do not have meaning that to prove myself that my dream will be come true. And I will be able to work for a big OEM. So that was the second motivation. So it was again, it was pretty not conscious, but totally obvious that we had to do that.

Andy Follows: 28:53

Right. And so did it feel like the first step on realising that dream when you got into a big OEM?

Stéphane Crasnier: 28:58

Yeah, it was.

Andy Follows: 29:01

Okay. So tell me about your early career in PSA.

Stéphane Crasnier: 29:04

So same PSA stayed two years, something like that. So first of all, I was pretty lucky so and you will see my career, it's all about risk and chance. So it was chance and I had a boss which was a very experienced b2b leader of Citroen brand in France. So he had outstanding customers big tickets, you know, like total like [name], like, [name] you know, all the big French companies of course they were buy French cars. The chance I had was that guy said okay, you will get my portfolio. So I had all the big tickets from the from the beginning, and he was very close to me and teaching me how to get there. And same at that time. The way we are running business were slightly different from what we are doing today. It was A lot of personal interaction in the sense of creating this kind of strong personal interaction, especially in the French Way, meaning having lunch, especially, that was the way to get trust with people. But also, I was highly driven by this outstanding negotiation, hard negotiation where I had to sell one time 5000 cars. So it was it was really big negotiation big ticket. So I was very happy with this, same that guy was pretty tough, pretty hard with us, and especially with me, but I was honestly quite impressed about the way it was happening. It was totally different. For me, it was, it was aggressive. I was hard negotiator in the sense but I was learning that that was a possibility. But that was not me as well. And I was successful. So it means that there is different ways to get your, your, your, your goal. And yeah, it was super successful again, and showing especially the relationship with the b2b customers, I was so happy with this, because I had professional in front of me. So I was able to have really good discussion, negotiation within technical things. We're discussing about cars, you know, you know, in a very depth way. So so so so I was very happy with this kind of situation. And again, risk and chance, the famous best friend I met at the army, call me and he says, Stephane they are exactly looking for the the guy like you at BMW. So it was two years after PSN. And I said no, it's not possible. BMW is not looking to the b2b space, they are looking for private customers, especially in France. But that was exactly in 2005. The idea of BMW to to develop the b2b segments, they were super strong in private segments, and they wanted to develop the b2b segment, and they were looking for this kind of competence in the mainstream OEMs. So again, my friend said, Okay, let's have a try. You're always dream dreamt about BMW, so go for it. And then I applied, and I got the job at BMW in corporate sales. 2005.

Andy Follows: 32:03

Right. So it was a similar role in terms of job title, and expectations, perhaps, adjacent to what you'd been doing before, I'm interested that you have already experienced different leadership styles. By this time in your career, you'd been observing and subject to a number of different leadership styles from the people you'd been reporting to, and noticing which ones fitted with you which ones were different. And you said that there's always different ways to achieve the goal. So you can still you can still be yourself, you can still lead in the way that feels authentic to you and achieve the the end result. And also the opportunity the network. So if you hadn't gone, you met your friend in doing your military service, and he was the one who alerted you to the opportunity at BMW, as you say, some good chance happening there. And how did you find the transition then into BMW,

Stéphane Crasnier: 33:05

it was a perfect blend. It was for the first time matching my personal traits with this corporate culture

Andy Follows: 33:15

Okay, say some more about that. That sounds really interesting.

Stéphane Crasnier: 33:17

It was outstanding, you know, first of all, I'm a big fan of BMW as such, but also a huge respect about the company. Because that's, first of all, that's a structured company. And I like structure, it's easier to set things when there is a frame. The second thing was about this alignment culture, meaning that they are discussing, listening to the others opinion and making a decision. And when the decision is done, then you are executive the decision. So quite easy to understand, quite easy to to follow. And again, I'm not saying that this is the best I'm saying that, that that was matching with me, there was a good fit. Exactly. I was super comfortable in this in this way to go. And of course, then I was very happy because I was bringing value to this company because they had no clue about b2b. So I was coming with this kind of knowledge or it was marvellous for me because then I was saying, Okay, I know, I know what's the b2b is about I know what the dealer is about. I know what his customer is about. And that was not exactly the main traits of BMW at that time. So they were super happy and by the way, the guy who hired me was[name], so [name] was at that time the Sales Director of BMW France now is the CEO of BMW Group France. And same, perfect chemistry with this guy. We are not the same, but my impression My first impression was, I can trust the feeling I can trust that guy, because he was quite straightforward, honest. Okay, fair enough. So I said, okay, good boss, good culture, let's move. And it was 18 outstanding years within that group, because I stayed 8 years at BMW. And the good thing was also to learn because I learned a lot, first of all, from the German culture as well, which was the first time not not the first job I had at BMW, first job was corporate sales, which was easy for me. The second job I had at BMW was strategy and sales planning. And normally, I was absolutely absolutely not ready for that, because that's a job where you have to negotiate the production with the HQ. And you have to allocate this production to dealers. So most of your job, you are seated in front of a laptop with a marvellous Excel file, talking to Germans. so horrible. But the takeaway of that,

Andy Follows: 35:59

let us say you were laughing and smiling when

Stéphane Crasnier: 36:01

Yeah course, of course, why I'm saying that, you said that because, first of all, that was a risk for me, in a sense that I had to learn things, first of all, to speak English with Germans. And that was easy, because you know, it's easier to speak with German than you as an example Andy, question of accent probably. So joke aside, that was the first

Andy Follows: 36:25

Do you want me to put on a German accent?

Stéphane Crasnier: 36:33

Let's see how long you will stay with this. No more seriously. So I was also with this Excel file calculation. And, and that was also I'm not used, I was used to talk to customers and to convince customers. And that was totally different. And same with this top management relationship, because I had to talk with the CEO of BMW, France. And that well, at that time, I talked to the CEO of BMW Financial Services, for the financing of the cars and so on. So it was a different exposure. And for for the story, by the way, when I joined that job, I took that job, very small team of four people, and one of the guy was a trainee, or just just promoted or hired as a permanent job. His name is [name] And he was the most brilliant guy in the team, I shouldn't say to the others, but the others are all retired anyway. So no problem with this. But this guy was outstanding. He was curious, he was super smart, he was sharp, he was direct. And I said to him, I'm sorry, I know that you would like to move to the next job quite quite rapidly. But that is for next six months, you stayed with me. And I will help you as much as I can for the future. But now I need you to teach me what you are doing. And he did it. And saying I'm still in a very close relationship with this guy now is a sales director for BMW Financial Services in France. And I did learn a lot from that guy. But that guy was just the training of, you know, the smallest guy in the team. But super collaboration. And yeah, he did great. And he's been great.

Andy Follows: 38:14

Yeah, excellent. He had the knowledge that you really knew you needed at that time. And what I'm thinking is, when you joined BMW, in that first role, you were bringing a lot of experience of b2b. And you are entering an environment that was actually turned out to be a really good cultural fit for you, and you liked the structure. So there's a lot of a very smooth introduction to this new environment, this new group, and then the level of challenge gets increased in the next role, because the familiarity of the job itself sales, strategy and planning, lots of spreadsheets, lots of talking to the colleagues in Germany was a new aspect away from customers now away from the stuff that you were familiar with. So less familiarity, and also the increased challenge in terms of talking to people in the hierarchy and reporting to more senior folk, it sounds like as well.

Stéphane Crasnier: 39:06

But probably also Andy for for the first time, it was more conscious. It was also a way for me to trust myself, meaning all the stuff I did previously was easy. It was to sell cars, and I was not born for that. But I'm quite quite quite comfortable with convincing people and dealing with this kind of commercial relationship. But moving to this sales planning and strategy stuff, speaking in English, talking to high level people, very senior people, it was all about trust in me saying that you can do it. And then the power of trusting yourself was one of the key elements. Because then it came to people then step by step, we're also trusting you. And then I started to have a kind of reputation as well within the company, that you are reliable, you're open, you're delivering and and that's also A good enabler for you for the future. And that was, by the way, the bridge with the next one, because I stayed two years in that job as well. And I met probably the most important guy had in my career at that time, which was Andy Wolter.

Andy Follows: 40:16

Okay, let me just pause, let me pause there. And I am really looking forward to hearing about Andy Wolters impact on you. He's been a guest, he's also someone I would consider a friend. And you've just said something that really made me think you talking about if you trust yourself, then that leads to other people trusting you. Right? Why that struck me was I'm thinking, Do we more often think if other people trust me, then that builds my confidence. But if I turn that you've turned that round and said, No, if you trust you can do it. And then that helps to build other people's trust in you. That's interesting,

Stéphane Crasnier: 41:02

that when I've discovered with a lot of stability, should, I should I should go for years for having the full understanding of this is that trusting yourself is accepting the fact that you can fail, and you have no issue with this trusting yourself is the fact that you can be wrong or not perfectly knowledgeable, trusting yourself is the fact that you are confident that at least the value you're conveying are robust and consistent, meaning that you are really living the values. trusting yourself. It's an easy word, but there's so much behind. At the beginning of your career, you are not conscious, the building these kind of things. Now, I'm really reflecting on that and saying that nothing could happen to me as far as I've got strong values, nothing happened to me if I'm accepting proactively, that I can fail or make mistakes. Nothing could happen to me. Because Because again, I'm just promised in who I am. And then as a consequence, people should feel and smell this kind of stuff, then then it's super, super powerful, because then sometimes you're surprised why is this guy's trusting me or what he's listening, by the way to me. And that's a piece of leadership self similar people, meaning that if they feel and smell that you are robust, you are consistent, they will go anywhere with you, as soon as there is a chemistry with your values.

Andy Follows: 42:24

Let me take a moment to tell you about our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by ASKE Consulting who are experts in executive search, resourcing solutions and talent management across all sectors of the automotive industry in the UK and Europe. I've known them for almost 20 years and I can think of no more fitting sponsor for Career-view Mirror, they're the business we go to at Aquilae When we're looking for talent for our clients and for projects that we're working on. ASKE was founded by Andrew McMillan, whose own automotive career includes board level positions with car brands and leasing companies. All ASKE consultants have extensive client side experience, which means they bring valuable insight and perspective for both their employer and candidate customers. My earliest experience of working with Andrew was back in 2004, when he helped me hire regional managers for my leasing Sales Team at Alphabet. More recently, when Aquilae was helping a US client to establish a car subscription business, ASKE Consulting was alongside us helping us to develop our people strategy, and to identify and bring onboard suitable talent. Clients we've referred to ASKE have had an equally positive experience. Andrew and the team at ASKE are genuinely interested in the long term outcomes for you and the people they place with you. They even offer the reassurance of a two year performance guarantee, which means they have skin in the game when working with you. If you're keen to secure the most talented and high potential people to accelerate your business and gain competitive advantage, do get in touch with them and let them know I sent you. You can email Andrew the team at Hello@askeconsulting.co.uk or check out their website for more details and more client feedback at www.askeconsulting.co.uk. ASKE is spelt A S K E. You'll find these contact details in the show notes for this episode. Okay, let's get back to our episode. So starting with your values, starting with acknowledging that you will make mistakes that you won't know everything perfectly. If you acknowledge that that frees you up to get out of your comfort zone which you did. And to get yourself into challenging situations knowing I can't actually, nothing too bad can happen.

Stéphane Crasnier: 44:44

Yeah, absolutely.

Andy Follows: 44:45

Because I have this definition of trusting yourself that you've described and then as you say other people sense that and will support you and follow you and help you to achieve your goals. So really Interesting. Thank you. So let us get back there. Also, the one other thing I just wanted to point out was, we've seen you since the military service was one year, that was mandatory. But we've seen you move jobs quite regularly. Yeah, up until this point where you say 18 years now still moving jobs within the 18 years of growing and getting lots of different experiences. But you clearly had found somewhere that was able to keep the level of challenge where it was interesting for you. So did you want to talk about Andy Wolter?

Stéphane Crasnier: 45:37

Yes, of course. But again, I was pretty lucky because I was not at that time chasing the new job for the new job, I was just enjoying the fact that people were coming and saying, Okay Stephane, would you be open for doing this or that? So I was quite quite lucky for that.

Andy Follows: 45:53

The opportunities found you because of the way you were conducting yourself the way you were delivering? Yeah

Stéphane Crasnier: 45:59

Absolutely. And then came Andy. So I can be a bit emotional with Andy meaning that that was probably, again, a big trigger for me to observe what a true leader should be. And I was very impressed, I worked for Andy for only nine months or something like that. But from the early stage, he had, you know, this kind of charisma, to be at the right level, meaning that to be that kind of leader having a vision, able to convey his vision into an inspirational speech, or experience, inspirational way to go. And to be tough as well to execute the job. Because you can be charismatic person having a vision, but if you have no ability to make your people execute things, then okay, what's the point and he was exactly that being strategy, operational, inspirational, leading by example. And I was observing and observing and looking to the people staring at him and seeing for all these guys, including myself, we can go everywhere with him, it was a no brainer, because he was full of trust. And as a consequence, we were trusting him. He was fair, as well, fair, meaning that when he had to make tough decision, he was doing this kind of decision. And he was honest, saying sometimes we I don't know or, okay, you know better than I, so he was more or less, you know, this kind of Shepherd, you know, the leader with behind and not in front of the scene, but more, you know, helping and making all these guys with the right chemistry doing good stuff. So long story short, because I can discuss for hours with about Andy. He was the guy said, Okay, I would like to be like him. I would like to be like him. And I told him already, because we we are still in contact. And still a lot of admiration about what he's doing right now. So thanks. Thanks Andy for that.

Andy Follows: 48:09

Thank you for sharing openly how he inspired

Stéphane Crasnier: 48:10

Yeah absolutely. So, so that was Yes, you and continues to inspire you. I think even if people probably one year with with Andy so when I joined in fact, BMW don't know Andy Wolter, that's a really good example of some of bank Andy call me and he says Stephane you know, we've got a the characteristics that you found very attractive in a subsidiary called called Alphabet and the bank and BMW leader. And also brings up this idea of what can we learn from leaders because we want to be ourselves. We want to be Financial Services. So the subsidiary we can sell it in six authentic, we don't want to act like somebody else, if that's months time or we can invest to develop that branch, would you not us, but at the same time, we can learn from observing other be open to join knowing that you are taking risks? Because if we leaders and we can learn behaviours, and it sounds like are getting rid of the of the company, potentially you will, that's how you were approaching this. you will be part of that? And I said, that's a no brainer for me because again, I will No, I have no clue about operational ease. I had absolutely no clue about operational needs at that time. Is that what he meant by the blue guy? You had the blue and But I was stressed stressing the guy said, okay, it seems to be a good one. He had already an excellent reputation. And I said that's important for me to be in charge of business line. So I joined BMW Financial Services, and rapidly we did a carve out. So we did the separation between BMW Financial Services, and Alphabet and Alphabet became a legal entity. And by chance, I became I'm at 36 years old, an MD, within the BMW world galaxy. So I was super, super proud, super, super happy. That was a small Alphabet. And we had at the time 13,000 cars portfolio wise 37 people. And then same, I started the same stuff. So building the team, this chemistry within the team, we had outstanding people in them. And we were super, super successful making a lot of money with 50% portfolio BMW and 50% MultiMax. And that was that was a kind of laboratory for me, again to experience myself as a leader as a CEO for the first time, of course, under the umbrella of Andy Wolter. But, but that was really good. And then BMW decided at that time to acquire ING Carlease and ING was three times bigger than Alphabet. So my boss at that time [name] called me and he said, Stefane, we are buying. So this is Donna. Now we are buying ING. So I say okay, super, we are working comments on that one super happy with this. And Norbert told me you know, Stefane, you will not be the MD anymore. But you will be the blue guy in the management board to integrate the BMW culture within within this company white BMW, BMW. Orange for ING blue for a BMW. So I was the only BMW guy in the management board. Are you happy with this? I remember, I was at home and they said absolutely not happy at all with this kind of stuff Norbert . Because I think I'm able to manage the whole thing. And I know the rotation of the other guys probably not exactly like BMW could wish. So I would like to embrace the full companies. No no this has been decided we have to go like this. Okay, fair enough. But trust me, because if you're doing properly the job, then let me know what you want, then later. And I said, Okay, I will do the job. But then you have to promise me that you will push me abroad, because that should be the next learning curve. For me, I was dreaming about being abroad. So give me the chance to expatriate me outside to see another piece of the world. And he was consistent because after two years, then he called me back and he said, Okay Stephane, well done, now you can move abroad. And we've got a job for you. In China. That was not exactly the first expectation. But just to be back and need to have this experience of coming carve out what was super interesting. And probably, as a leader, we did huge mistake in there. When we did the integration of ING, so my famous 37 People super motivated like a family, we knew each other super well, embracing successes, and that was super. And then those guys, we said to them, okay, now you will have another contract. So it's a new company called Alphabet, including ing and the former alphabet, I will not be the CEO anymore. And we'll be setting marketing and integration for for that stuff. And then you have to change your contracts. So it means that you have to quit BMW Financial Services, and to have a new contract called Alphabets under the leadership of the new CEO. And these 37 people were waiting for signing the contracts, and they will not signing. So then the HR at that time [name] called me and Stephane we've got a huge problem. They don't want to sign a new contract. So they will not come to ING. I said, No, no, it cannot happen. In fact, it should be they have to trust us. And the big mistake I did, I took all of them in the same room. And I said to them, guys, listen, everything we have done together. Perfect. So you trust me. So because you trust me I'm asking you to sign and I will take care of you. And that was the biggest mistake Andy because they signed. Why it was a super super mistake, because they signed and the technical integration was perfect. We did a super good job. But the cultural integration was a disaster. Because we were not able to manage you know, this orange culture fair intrapreneur less structured, and the BMW culture more structure lesser sharpener, and it was a disaster between the two the two cultures. And these people started to get sick, to try to be mad in a sense. And then I was looking to me and saying I'm the guy who asked them to sign and I do see my people separate. And why I did that mistake because I was making a confusion. Between my ego as a leader, and saying, Hey, look at that, they will follow me anywhere in the world. And the fact that I was not able to keep my promise, caring about them in a long way. So that was, that was kind of eye opener for me. And all this cultural integration was so bad that I said, what I did wrong. And then I was really very close to the burnout, that consequences in a sense. And then I bought a book who saved my personal career. And that book was, is Leading Change. Leading Change the book by Kotter, it's a very traditional leading transformation book, blah, blah, blah, but easy for me, because eight steps to expect to drive the change. And when I read the book, I saw all the mistakes we did, like your lack of collate Coalition, a sense of urgency, nothing, all these kinds of steps, we did nothing. And I said, Okay, for the next time, I will remember, and I will try to apply that eight steps for transformation.

Andy Follows: 56:16

Ah. And first of all, I'm going to say thank you very much for me and my listeners for telling us that very honest story about a big mistake that you made. I'm personally always on the edge of my seat when someone tells me something like that, because you know, it's so authentic, it's not sugar coated, it gets really real. And we can learn, hopefully, we can learn from it. And it makes us feel more connected to you as a human being, who makes mistakes, and completely understandable and relatable, that you'd had such success developing this team, and they did trust you. And now you had an opportunity to leverage that trust, one time to do something really big to get them all to sign to get them to come on the journey. And it's only afterwards that you realise you didn't have full control of what you were offering them in return.

Stéphane Crasnier: 57:15

Absolutely.

Andy Follows: 57:16

So have you told Have you told them this? Absolutely.

Stéphane Crasnier: 57:20

So I did my coming out. When, when I was back here years after, because again, I was I was even more confident of trusting myself even more. So when I was back from Australia and China, back to the CEO role of Alphabet, because when I left for China and Australia, and being back, I took the job finally, and especially to those people, and more than them, I was sharing the fact that that I was burning, first of all, and most of them most of us had, you know, a career, you know, really tough time and, and that's good to accept that you were close to burnout or burning. And secondly, that I did that kind of mistake. And I was failing for that. And of course, those were at that time, this part of the 37 were perfectly conscious of this. But for the others as well, it was a good session, because I was saying okay, guys, it will happen to probably you or you or you and better to give you a kind of shortcut. Take my experience and accept it. And you will see that the painful moment will be probably less painful if you're accepting this kind of stuff. Yeah.

Andy Follows: 58:35

And hopefully, that's what we're doing here sharing stories that can create shortcuts for our listeners, as well. And did they stayed, obviously, some of the 37 stayed

Stéphane Crasnier: 58:48

Most of them. Honestly, I don't have the statistic about this, but but most of them stayed. The second pain was when I left for China, because then I was in this company, the only blue one and leaving the company moving to China having more kind of orange, but they were becoming more and more blue. So that was a case. But then they are the they had really painful time for the next five years. And I wasn't there anyway, so I was not able to look and see what's going on. Of course, I was still in contact with them, most of them. But the thing I was experiencing during this disintegration is that the two population were separate. Because the BMW population or the athletic population, former population were suffering because they had the impression that it was not an acquisition. It was a reverse acquisition in the sense. They were saying I'm BMW why I'm suffering because we are the one who's buying this ING stuff. And the ING colleagues were saying we are bringing all the value in there. We've got the IT system, we've got the process, we've got the portfolio, blah, blah, blah, so we are the ones and in fact the two population were struggling and not finding them they're where to go because the management, we had not enough attention on this cultural thing and saying, Guys, it's not a question of dominant or not dominance. It's a question of we are building something. But what is not questionable is that anyway, the culture will be a BMW one. Because with my experience of this is that when I'm talking about the BMW culture is the structured way, the alignment process, the reporting process, the way people are interacting on it working, this will become BMW. So for most of the people, especially if coming from the ING side, they were struggling with this culture. So our job would have been to teach them. What are the shortcuts in the BMW culture? And we are not good at potentially, because the CEO in charge I no complaint about the CEO in charge by the way, but he had no no no no feeling about this BMW culture. And then he was staying away from the BMW culture. So it was positioning the people in a situation where they were still struggling with the BMW culture, despite that Alphabet is and was totally independent. But it was really a lesson that I was I was seeing these two populations travelling so much. And honestly to be super selfish when I left for China was pretty happy. Because I said, Yes, I got it. So tick, Mark, I can move abroad, but I was saying for looking back, they will go to a very painful journey. And this is what

Andy Follows: 1:01:31

Yeah, it's very interesting how the culture happened. really good example of how the culture doesn't know what was written in the agreement, doesn't care about what the who might have acquired whom and who owns this, it doesn't know about the ownership. It just does its thing it has it exerts its influence, and if you're not paying attention to it, and being very intentional about how you create the culture and recognising that in order for this company to take on the culture of BMW, someone needs to teach people, someone needs to model the behaviours and share the shortcuts as you put it. So I'm not surprised that after a couple of years in that role, with your ambition, and with your plans of how you want to develop your career in the industry, that when the opportunity to go to China came up. You were very happy to take that. Let's analyse that a little bit more, though, because China isn't necessarily I think you said that not necessarily the first. Not the first choice, but not the first idea you might have had about what an international when you first said to Norbert that you wanted to go abroad. I'm not sure whether China was top of the list. So how was the reaction? When you heard it was China? And how is the conversation with your partner then?

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:02:46

First of all, it's a family decision. So when we said okay, we are raising hand, so as to move abroad. That was the first decision we had to take with my wife. So the kids were pretty young. So they weren't a part of this, of this discussion at the time. The second thing is that in the BMW world, in fact, you're not just raising the hand for this country on the other one, if you raise your hand, you raise your hand meaning that it could be US it could be China, it could be I don't know, whatever you want you care. You're just raising the hand. And when again, they call me and saying okay Stephane Good luck. You've got an assignment or you can go abroad said yes. Super where? China ah That's painful. Where Shanghai? No, no Beijing ah. Okay. So, you know, it was it was like, like, okay, but fair enough to be consistent. I was looking for adventure, I was looking for challenge. I was looking for curiosity for all this kind of stuff. So So definitely, I was I was saying, okay, my wife and I, okay, let's go, let's go for it, we should go with we've got only good stuff we can learn. And the funny thing, by the way, because you know, in the Vietnamese culture, you've got this look and sign. So you have to go to China to have a look with your wife. And to have a look. Sorry, it's not a look and sign. So look and see, sorry. But in fact, it's not a look and see to look and sign. Meaning that if you are going there for having a look too then of course you are signing to go there. So we've been there to Beijing, it was the 2013 It was the worst week of the year, it was impossible to see across the street with this marvellous fog, you know, and we said well, what what an outstanding fog in Beijing, but it was only pollution by the way. So So I said, Okay, what do we do? And I said, Okay, we'll make it happen. We've got only once chance to get there and go for it. And looking back, it was one of the best decision we took my wife and I because it was four outstanding years over there. So if you look to my wife or if you if you ask My wife, are you happy with China? She will say definitely no but now looking back, she was saying, Yeah, okay, China was tough was difficult. But on the other side, it was fascinating for us to grow. It was a fascinating for us to learn to visit Asia, to develop our kids to expose our kids to a different culture. So it was it was Outstanding, outstanding.

Andy Follows: 1:05:23

How long did it take you to arrive at that joint decision? You say? Obviously, the kids were too young to be involved. But did it take you a little while for you and your wife to agree to go? Or? Or was it

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:05:33

No, it was super quick. Super quick.

Andy Follows: 1:05:36

What were you learning from your time? What were you doing in China? And what do you take away from that?

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:05:43

So I was sent to China, because my, the CEO of Alphabet at the time, asked me so it was [name]. And he said, Stefan, the CEO of Germany is looking for a solution like Alphabet Germany. So the CEO, sorry, of BMW China, he was looking for a solution like Alphabet in Germany, go for it, come back and make a proposal. So I had three weeks as a business trip. So I've been there. I met the CEO of China, I met the CEO of BMW financial services, [name] at that time. And honestly, at the three weeks, I said, we cannot copy paste to Alphabet over there. Because there is no use common clarity, there is no operational leader search. So we can do probably other stuff, but not that. So I came back to Munich. I said to Ed, Ed you know, no, it will look like so so you cannot copy paste. And that was one of the worst moments in my life. Career life. I thought that Ed would have fired me at the end of the one hour session saying that you cannot come to China and not finding a solution for us and blah blah blah.. So that was very tough. But it was probably for Ed to challenge me and to say you should have come you should have came back with an alternative solution. And I understood in fact, later on, so he said Stephane move back to China, three weeks come back. And the decision was made with my wife to move to China already imagine. So I said, Well, that's really painful. And I came back to China for three weeks with this famous [name]. And then we said, okay, probably the cooperation model is the way to go for China, let's seek for one or two partners test and try we can make it super quick in China. And see then if we can execute, then the for the business line over now, what we did so far, we came back with this proposal of cooperation, and we're signing in BMW, China, as well, all good. And then we came back and it was the way to go. So that the decision was made to have this cooperation mechanism in place. And it was super successful, because after six months, we had already six agreements, we have screened 22 partners over there. And then we were also screening one of them more seriously. And then the m&a team of BMW, the legal from China, blah, blah, blah, all the team came. And then we did the acquisition within within two years. So it was it was super successful, a lot of different opinion in Munich about this. But at the end, it was a good way because China you have to be flexible, you have to be offensive, you have to be defensive. And the way to have an operationalising company China was well a good way to go. So that was professionally outstanding, because I was alone. Then I had a team then I had to integrate this company. And same by the way, technically perfect cultural, it was again a disaster. But that was planned. So that was of course, more difficult.

Andy Follows: 1:08:47

When you say it was planned, say a bit more about that.

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:08:50

We knew we knew that it would be challenging because we we knew we knew that that the people in the company was not exactly the same people, Chinese people we had in in the FC in China a lot of really good skills people in in China, but in this company, they were they were less European oriented in a sense, European style oriented.

Andy Follows: 1:09:15

So you knew there was going to be a culture clash?

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:09:19

Yeah. Not not clash

Andy Follows: 1:09:21

differences.

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:09:23

People not yeah, not not very compatible with with the with BMW culture.

Andy Follows: 1:09:28

So were you able to draw on your experience from your two years previously in France integrating with ING did you find that you thought I've seen this before, although different?

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:09:40

Remember the book?

Andy Follows: 1:09:42

Had you read the book? Had you read the book by then? Have you read Kotter by then?

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:09:47

Yeah exactly, I read Kotter. And I said, I have to apply this method to this integration process, but I did so far. And that was pretty successful because again, we had so many openings. so as to get there. We were highly supported by Erik Von Esschenbach or the network in Munich. And yes, I follow the book. And that was fine. That was fine.

Andy Follows: 1:10:13

And what happened then towards what led you to leave China? What was the story there?

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:10:18

Ah, job job was done. We had a Chinese CEO at that time, potentially the opportunity to stay but my wife was not wanting to stay in China. So China, China is a fascinating country. I miss China i have to say, I miss that China, because potentially China's changed a bit since but China is a is an outstanding land where you can learn and the more you're staying in China, the less you understand, by the way, so which is even more appealing, right?

Andy Follows: 1:10:48

Say a little about that's too intriguing to leave that unexplored Stephane. And so the longer you stay in China, the less you understand, say a bit more.

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:10:57

Because in fact, if you're humble, you have to accept that we are not designed in the same way. I'm not judging bad or good. I'm saying that we are we are we are literally different. But the more you have the impression to learn to see things, then it's like you're opening a new door. And then you see behind the door that there's so much more complexity in there. Then you are learning and learning opening a new door and again, you are coming to a situation where it's different, same basic basic mistake is that when you are coming to China, you think that there is one China, but no there is there is there is 20 China's there is different behaviours. Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen Guangzhou, there they are, they are so different in the sense in the people. So long story short, when I was really enjoying the fact that I was learning, learning, learning, and, you know, not very comfortable with the fact that everything could happen over there. But it was really refreshing. It was I was really alive in a sense. And that was the beauty of of this marvellous country.

Andy Follows: 1:12:07

Yeah, thanks. Thank you. So the more you know, the more you realise how little you know, or how much more exactly to get to know.

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:12:14

Exactly, exactly.

Andy Follows: 1:12:15

Very good. So the job came to an end, and were you repatriated then back into

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:12:21

Yeah. So again, China was not an option. My wife was not willing to stay over there. So we had the choice between the US, Portugal and Australia at that time, which is pretty rare at BMW to have a choice. And we said, Okay, we probably we've got the true reward in moving to Australia, right? So we said, Okay, let's take, let's take a break. And the plan in Australia was again to do a card between BMW Financial Services and Alphabet. It was based in Melbourne, had finished the job in China. So the family moved six months in front of me. So they had to, they had to, I had to commute between Beijing and Melbourne, which is not exactly the best way to go. But it was fine. For me was super, super happy in Melbourne. We did a mistake as well, by the way, because we were super trained and prepared when we moved to China. And we thought in a very naive way that Australians are like British, you know.

Andy Follows: 1:13:23

I'm saying nothing. I'm saying nothing at this point.

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:13:29

But huge mistake, in fact, culturally, they're quite different. And we were we were learning as well, over there. But, but finally I stayed. The family stayed one year, I spent only six months, because after three months, then Munich call me back and say, okay, Stephane potentially there's something to clean in France. Would you be open to to come back to France? I said, Come on, guys. You just moved me from Beijing to Melbourne. And now asking you back to, to come to Paris. said okay, you, let's apply for the job if you want. You're not obliged, but you can apply? And I said, Okay, so let me give me give me two days for that. And I will come back. So I was coming back to them and say, Okay, I would like to be part of the shortlist. Because that was for the CEO job of Alphabet in France, which was becoming a big thing. It was a big company. It is a big company. So we said okay, let's go for that. And at that time, my boss told me, yeah, go for it. But you have to know that you're not my preferred choice. So okay, so you know, why not? But okay, I would like to fight for. And finally I got the job. And then first of July 18, I was back to Paris,

Andy Follows: 1:14:41

Just thinking to what extent might it have been a strategy to say, Okay, we'd like Stephane to come back. We don't think he's going to be super motivated to come back because he's only just got to Australia. If we tell him that he's not our first choice, how much harder how much harder is he going to try

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:15:01

No but the story, in fact is simple, when it when I moved to Australia, and now we can discuss this kind of stuff, because it's a long time ago, at that time, BMW Financial Services were struggling with the with the banking licence over there. So this is point number one point number 2, the portfolio of Alphabet at that time was not that great. And number 3, the IT system was not there at all. So as a consequence, I said, Guys, you've got the highest super high priority to get your licence back. That's your priority, you're not caring about carving out or taking care of a 2000 or 10,000 portfolio cars for Alphabet, concentrate on the cars. So I was killing my job in saying that, but that was not the priority for them. And[name] was the CEO of China was becoming the CEO of Australia. And he said, Okay, fair point, you're right. But in saying that Stephane you're killing your job. And that was also the chemistry and say, Okay, fine, if that's the way to go, I don't care. I'm sure I will find another job in BMW. No problem with this. Of course, I will miss also Australia but this is the way, I cannot lie and say, Okay, let's go for this car and come out in a shitty situation is not the not the way to go. Okay. That's the full story Andy.

Andy Follows: 1:16:15

Okay. So the circumstances weren't really lending themselves to a successful growing of Alphabet at that time in Australia. Okay. So you were successful, you got the job as CEO in France for Alphabet, and you returned

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:16:31

To Paris which was absolutely not our wish Paris anyway. me know that at the time, in fact, I knew a couple of guys over there, of course, and the company was making losses. The company was not steered probably as accurately as we should. And the people engagements was one of the weakest across the BMW companies. So I said, Okay, sounds good. There is a challenge, and easy to turn something which is not working properly. And, okay, let's go for it. The management team was not bad, but they were only individuals. So it means the chemistry with the management team was not not functioning at all. So the first thing I did is that in nine months time, I changed the whole all of them, the CFO was promoted by Munich, no option. The risk officer was coming from the Netherlands, the best Risk Officer we had in the company, BMW, I'm talking about, at least from my point of view, the sales guy was the guy I met years ago, I said, my plan could work only with this guy, and another one I will talk about. And I said, Okay, I have to convince the CEO of financial services to let me hire that guy, which was a diamond for me, loyal, honest, hard worker, super smart, super engaged, perfect. And the other one coming from the NSC. So BMW France called I can name by the way these two guys and the first one is [name]. And the second one is [name] and the guy. The other one was from aftersales NSC, super smart, centroids idea. And then I said with this team, I can turn the whole thing. And it was horrible. I remember the first words I had for the people because I was perceived as a blue one. Remember, I was the blue one. So in this company named Alphabet was still 70% 80% ING people so these guys remember that I was the blue one. So first of all, had to gain their heart and their brain to say, okay, the only promise I can take I can make is sweat and tears at the beginning and discipline. Imagine talking about discipline to French people. It was, it was the sense of urgency, because no option. And that's step by step we turned that company with a good Transformation Office. We invested a lot in transformation in change management and structure in steering in breaking the silos saying we can talk hours and hours on that case, but at the end, it's probably the the accomplishments I'm the most proud about. Because at the end, if I'm looking back now, five years later, this company is super profitable, super, super profitable, structurally, the company's fine and people engagement wise, that's probably the best Alphabet in the in the world. And people were so proud about what they did so far. Because they were all part of the journey. They were the worst Alphabet and they became probably one of the one or two best Alphabets in the world and honestly, it was a it was a marvellous marvellous journey with them.

Andy Follows: 1:20:04

Was that then was that your last role within the BMW Group?

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:20:08

Yep, absolutely.

Andy Follows: 1:20:10

And so that's really interesting, because we've heard how much growth you've had, how much opportunities how much learning you've, you've said the word learning many, many times in this conversation as something that you're actively looking for, and evaluating opportunities based on how much learning is this going to offer. And so you had a wonderful 18 years, some challenging times, and some very difficult experiences, and not all easy and rosy, but certainly clearly a very rich and learning field experience that you'd had. So tell us how you came to decide to do something different how that arose.

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:20:49

Because after five years, I was looking for a new challenge. And I was super transparent as well with my, with my management in Munich and saying, Please give me something to tell, I don't care, I'm not looking for this and that and looking for something I can express myself probably the best I can in turning company, because what I've experienced with Alphabet for the last last five years was just successful turning company. And I do believe probably with a lack of humility, that this is where I'm good at turning things with people. So I said, give me the chance, whatever you want. And at that time, it was not possible because we had other plans in, in France, in terms of structure, I cannot disclose because this is like it is. And the consequence was, then I have to stay within this company. Leading that company, of course, could be super comfortable staying two more years. Okay, running running this company. But that was not me, meaning that I was not prepared to wait too much. Probably, that's one of my negative point. And I said, I cannot complain about lack of entrepreneurship, sometimes about BMW is an outstanding company. Don't get me wrong, it's a fabulous company. But the entrepreneurship is sometimes diminished. You know, this is not for that BMW is the most well known in a sense, and I was starving for that. So I said, Okay, I cannot complain about these good company, if I'm not changing myself. So I've got two other options, two options, the first one, I'm staying and staying quiet, or I'm deciding to embrace again, risks. And I said, Okay, this is how it is. And sometimes you've got to kind of two ways coming at the same same times, meaning that then your cockayne the proposal and say, Okay, we have to turn the cup as well, we, there's, there's outstanding plans for this company, would you embrace to be part of the journey. And that's it. And the good thing, where, again, I'm super proud of is that I quit BMW in a super clean way. Meaning that, that I cannot say I've got friends, because friends, it's probably too big word. But I've got really good people at BMW are still discussing with they can be proud about what they are doing. They are good people. And there is no you know, bitterness in this kind of stuff. Because sometimes you can react in saying why these guys leaving the family after 18 years he's a traitor, I'm not I'm just going for another path. And still super proud about my path at BMW and proud about the BMW people

Andy Follows: 1:23:30

And how are you finding your first year with Europcar?

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:23:34

Super challenging, in a sense that, again, you have to learn so exactly what I was expecting for China or being back to Alphabet in France. So learning, learning learning, the complexity of the car rental business is the highest I've seen, compared to operationally compared to the banking business compared to the European business much more complex, much more volatile. So I have a huge respect for these people, because they have to handle so many parameters, including the weather to run the business. This is point number one. The second thing is that, of course, this company's got a strong culture. And the culture of Europcar is slightly different from the BMW one. So I have to adapt to this culture and not the other way around. So so this is where of course that's that's challenging. And the third one is that anywhere you're going there is good people and I was very pleased about the people I met over there from the early stage meaning that that highly motivated, highly engaged and honestly I'm saying this sincere, I'm not faking things that isn't the point. And I said, okay, then that's the main thing I've got meaning I've got the people. So now let's start to build this journey and same like for the Alphabet story, so step by step with a plan, with some some hows to work on and some complexity, and some mistakes and some good stuff. And probably if we got the same interview in five years time, then you will see another story.

Andy Follows: 1:25:08

I'm quite sure we would given the way that you embrace challenges and learn through them and emerge with an even stronger capability. I'm curious, and I don't ask you anything you don't want to answer. But are you able to give examples of the culture that you're needing to learn some new behaviours that you're having to become more comfortable with?

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:25:30

Yes of course, Europcar is, is an international company, for sure, with also international shareholders, but there is still a French trait in there. And especially in the way things are processed. So slightly different from the BMW one in a sense. So this is one. The second thing is the network piece is also different. The network at BMW is probably coming to high level in a sense, but this network is super useful in the way BMW is behaving. At Europcar, it's a very international where people are working remotely, and then the networking piece is probably weaker, or not strong or different. And it's been this way than the than the BMW one. The the other side of of the middle is that they are reactivity or their capacity to rebound. Or to, to get things done is also much more active in a sense. So you have to deal with this and try to find the right balance between okay, you would like to present things, but not to kill the intrapreneurship. And this is where we are. And then I have to find the balance right, and not to kill with my own biases.

Andy Follows: 1:26:48

Yeah, it's good that you have that awareness. And thank you for sharing those examples. What I believe that this interview can do these conversations can do is give everyone in your organisation who wants to listen, an opportunity to hear a conversation with you that you won't be able to have individually, with every person, it's a very efficient way to get a lot of people in Europcar to understand Stephane Crasnier in a lot of depth, and to understand your journey and to hear what your approach is. And I hope to feel comfortable to approach you and to say, you mentioned this, can we just talk about that? Or what did you mean by that

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:27:28

Absolutely

Andy Follows: 1:27:28

and to see that you're someone who's keen to learn someone who's keen to look at things from different perspectives, and someone that's happy to be approached by your new colleagues, and to build networks around the world. So I hope that this can do some of that for you and for your colleagues in Europcar. Is there anything I haven't asked you, Stephane, that means I've missed an opportunity of a story or something you'd like to share?

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:27:53

no, I guess it was. It was really enjoyable discussion. And happy with this. And rightly, as you said, if if this discussion could raise a couple of questions from anyone, by the way, it could be from the previous organisation, or the Europcar one and very happy with this. Yeah, very well, look, look, look looking forward and also to continue the journey in embracing the change.

Andy Follows: 1:28:18

Excellent. And we'll put your LinkedIn details in the show notes to this episode. And if people want to reach out to you, you're happy. If they don't already have your details, then you're happy for them to approach you. Yeah,

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:28:30

absolutely.

Andy Follows: 1:28:31

Excellent. Thank you very much for joining me Stephane. It's been it's been a real pleasure. And I wish you all the best and continued success in your new role.

Stéphane Crasnier: 1:28:39

Thanks Andy. Take care. Bye bye

Andy Follows: 1:28:46

You've been listening to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR with me, Andy Follows. Depending on your unique life experience, where you find yourself right now and your personal goals, you'll have your own takeaways from Stephane's story. Some elements that stood out for me were his father was a sales director who worked internationally. So the possibility of a commercial career was very visible and the awareness and acceptability or curiosity even about other countries and cultures was part of family life. He was a conscientious student who was often voted to be class representative. He recognised that he appreciated the opportunity to take responsibility. The reminder about how the French education system exposes students to abroad curriculum throughout their school years, how his time at business school allowed Stephane to spend time with car manufacturers and engage in projects, that there were alternatives to mandatory military service, but for various reasons, Stephen found himself having to serve 12 months in the military. It was interesting to hear how with hindsight he is grateful for this experience, and not least for having met his best friend while serving. The urge to serve was noticeable, but he decided to respect the investment his parents had made in his education and his own childhood dreams and pursue a business career, ideally in automotive, but when it came to leaving the military, it was Heineken who made the first offer. The emphasis on values and culture as part of the onboarding process had an impression, and being aware of the prevalent culture and its impact would stay with Stephane throughout his career to date. The dream to work in automotive remained and an opportunity to switch paths onto one that would see him start on the sales floor, and progress to running a dealership was enough to entice him away from Heineken. After some successful first experiences, he and his partner moved to Paris, where they'd have a statistically better opportunity to both progress their careers. This point, Stefan achieved his goal to join an OEM taking a position in b2b sales with PSA. He learned much from his boss negotiating big ticket deals with some of France's largest companies. It was his best friend from his military service days who alerted Stephane to the opportunity at BMW, and that opened the door to an 18 year career with the brand. At first, he was able to leverage his experience in b2b, and he enjoyed the structure making for a relatively smooth transition. His next roles brought more challenge taking him into topics that were new to him. Later on his journey, I appreciated him sharing about his role in persuading his colleagues to sign their new contracts after the acquisition of ING, his subsequent realisation that that had been a mistake, made for a great lesson in humility, and in understanding what we can and cannot control and therefore promise to others. Over time, he would make moves that would repeatedly take him out of his comfort zone, getting himself into situations where he'd be challenged and would grow, including four years in China, and a brief spell in Australia. He finally returned to France in the role of CEO for Alphabet, and he's recently joined a Europcar, also in France, where he's learning to adapt to a new culture again, if you enjoy listening to my guest stories, please could you do me a favour and share an episode with someone you lead parents or mentor or perhaps a friend of yours who you think would also enjoy listening? Thank you to Stephane for joining me for our conversation. Thank you to our sponsors for this episode, ASKE Consulting and Aquilae and thank you to the Career-view mirror team, without whom we wouldn't be able to share our guests life and career stories. And above all, thank you to you for listening