The Voice - No Limits Collective - Red Plaid Developments with Adam A

Join VAD as we learn about accessible housing as envisioned by Red Plaid Developments.  Adam has some great insight and knowledge about the housing industry and shares the vision of No Limits Collective and how the community across Alberta can start investing in accessible rental housing.

Transcript

Teresa Makarewich, Program & Services Manager

Welcome to the voice of Albertans with Disabilities podcast for June 2024. I'm Teresa Makarewich, host and Vads program and services manager. Thank you for joining us today. Voice of Albertans with disabilities gratefully acknowledges that what we call Alberta is the traditional and ancestral territories and gathering place for diverse indigenous people whose histories, languages and cultures continue to influence our vibrant communities. We make this acknowledgement as an act of reconciliation and gratitude to the many First Nations, Metis settlements and the six regions of the meeting nations of Alberta and Inuit who have lived in and cared for these lands for generations HY HY.

 VAD has been talking with local agencies to learn about resources that are available to the disability community. And in today's podcast, I'll be talking to Adam Arsenault from the No limits collective. Their mission is to build an inclusive city within our city one background and one house at a time. Please join VAD in welcoming Adam on the podcast. Together we hold the power - morning Adam.

Adam  Arsenault,  No Limits Collective - Red Plaid Developments

Hi, good morning.

Teresa Makarewich, Program & Services Manager

Can you take a moment and introduce yourself?

Adam  Arsenault,  No Limits Collective - Red Plaid Developments

Of course, yeah. My name's Adam. I have. I am the founder of the No limits collective and also Red Plaid developments, a residential home builder. We're based out of Edmonton and looking to expand throughout Alberta.

Teresa Makarewich, Program & Services Manager

Nice. Thank you. I have a few questions about the no limits collective to gather information for our listeners. So can you tell us what no limits collective is?

Adam  Arsenault,  No Limits Collective - Red Plaid Developments

So the no limits collective is- Is essentially a property management service. It's a group of builders that have come together and look and and is looking for ways to encourage inclusive housing. And before we get too far, I just want to state that when I talk about inclusive housing, I'm talking about a literal house. You know, sometimes there's confusion between multi unit commercial projects, like condos or apartments, so it it for - for our reference and for today,  Every time I'm referencing inclusive housing, I'm talking about a single detached dwelling up to three units. You know, usually one unit, but could be a duplex or three Plex. So that's what I'm referring to. When I when we're talking about housing. 

So there's a group of small builders looking to encourage accessible housing in, in our major cities. And across Alberta. So what we've done is we've created a program together called the No Limits Collective and what it is is a property management company that is financed and supported by these builders. It's a free service to anyone looking to build inclusive. So if anyone has an inclusive unit, they build it to the limits collectives, one of our builders, they qualify for free property management. Which includes finding a tenant through our not-for-profit partners. Spinal cord injury, Alberta, for example. And so they get, they get a a tenant pound for them on their behalf. Someone that can really benefit from an an accessible unit as well as free property management throughout sort of indefinitely. So basically managing tenants calls, collecting rent on the property owners behalf.

Teresa Makarewich, Program & Services Manager

That's fantastic. Why do we lack accessible housing in our current infrastructure?

Adam  Arsenault,  No Limits Collective - Red Plaid Developments

This is a really interesting one. Obviously there's a lot of studies, a lot of research, a lot of different things happening right now, and has been for the last, you know, few decades on how do we encourage accessible housing in the future. So obviously trying to see why we we wouldn't have it now. So everything I'm going to say here is based based on my own opinion, these aren't verified studies, but just based on me interacting with the public, all the work that I've done in accessible housing, I've been working in accessible housing and residential for six years. So I have four things. Why, you know why I think there's a lack of housing in our current infrastructure, the first one being a lack of clarity. So even still, there's a a study going on out of Toronto where they're looking at defining the word inclusive and defining the word accessible. So, so. So what do those mean? We have accessible, we have inclusive, we have barrier free barrier, free wheelchair accessible. So it could be very confusing. So so when we say accessible housing what what are we even talking about what's required? What are the thresholds and. And and that would really help so, so, so clarity around terms and definitions I think is a major. Issue. There's in the general public there's perceptions around each word because they aren't clearly defined. And then without those clear definitions, it's very difficult for our municipalities then to put that into bylaw. So everything we do is based on everything we do in construction, is based on the zoning bylaws of each municipality. So if we're trying to build something inclusive or accessible. In a legal definition, if the municipality isn't able to define that, then it's it's just a ruling definition and and and it makes it Like I said, that that lack of clarity makes it difficult to have everyone on the same page. 

The second thing is just the mindsets and stigmas around accessible Housing. For example, like I said in my in my work experience, I deal with seniors A lot, and I've talked to many, many seniors, say 55 plus; there's a lot of stigmas, negative stigmas around accessible housing. The general consensus is that Accessible housing means a sign of weakness, so you know if the seniors moving into accessible housing they're giving up in a way, they feel like they will deteriorate faster because of the accessibility. So, so now the lack of stairs for example. And that stigma seems very hard to break. Not sure if it's just a general generational thing. Ultimately, the 55 plus demographic are the people that have the finances to build accessible housing, and yet they're not. So again, that can come back to a little bit of a lack of clarity around what inclusive means. The pictures people get in their mind. The stigmas around it, so I think that that is a major issue. And why in general seniors don't want accessible house. 

The third thing is the cost to build because of the first two points, and because accessible housing is not frequently or ever built, the cost to build is higher. If you look at residential building in general as a factory, it's a specialty item built on a different line or or has to be built by hand because there isn't a production line. There's different materials, different processes. Overall it is more expensive, you know, hard to say how much, but you know somewhere around 10 to 20 Percent more Could Be in residential anyway. So like I said, because of those first two stigmas, you're it's very, very difficult to convince someone to pay that premium. So accessible housing has become a luxury item. It's the Lexus versus the Corolla, except that it's, you know, but nobody wants the Lexus you know. So it's. So that that is extremely difficult to overcome.

And then uh, well really the the result of all these three things is is no market. So there's there really is no demand. So you say well, why is there no accessible housing well. To sum it all up, in my experience it's because nobody actually wants it. So so people come back at me and say, well, how, how could that be 27.5% of Albertans have claim they have some sort of disability, As per 2022. And I guess that it's anecdotal, but I've talked to hundreds of people and  Nobody really wants it. They they want it, they agree, there's a need for it, but nobody is willing to incur those extra costs or change their mindset or take a risk, not care what other people think. Nobody's quite ready to trailblaze into that realm. To make it more commonplace, you know and and I I'm generalizing there. Obviously there is a very, very small market. But considering the a number of people that could benefit me from inclusive housing, the demand just isn't there.

Teresa Makarewich, Program & Services Manager

Just a side note there, do you find that the demand isn't there because of the demographic of who would need it?

Adam  Arsenault,  No Limits Collective - Red Plaid Developments

Because of the demographic and the mindsets of that demographic, it's because of the cost and it's because of the lack of clarity around it. Like when I say, inclusive housing, what does that mean to you? And I say it to someone else next to you. What does that mean to them? Two completely different things. So that is that is very difficult. So you're you're educating on a one to one. Leases every time based on my version of accessibility, inclusivity, so this gets very difficult, so it's much easier for persons to just say you know what we're going to live in a bungalow. The bungalow being our current society solution to a 55 plus solution. And I know we're talking, you know, with that and and persons with Disabilities and and it's it's different, you know a lot of times persons with disabilities say a spinal cord injury. Yes, they really do want accessible housing. But they're not in a position to build it and and even then, you know, I'm finding that persons with disabilities, they they do most definitely want it. But there's so many other things to advocate for, you know, so, so, so it's all about advocating, right. So these are the people that that really, really do need it, but they cannot build it in in a lot of, you know. Circumstances not always, but unable to build it themselves and then so we need the advocacy groups. But there are many other things to advocate for. With persons with disabilities, you know, as far as equality and funding and and different things that housing is kind of just treated as A and as a side thing, accessible housing is treated as a charitable item. And until we have a market, an actual demand for it, it would always be a charitable item.

Teresa Makarewich, Program & Services Manager

OK.

Adam  Arsenault,  No Limits Collective - Red Plaid Developments

And and with and with charitable items- It's it's dependent upon government, Not for profits and grants, that sort of thing. And. And really, they're looking for best bang for your buck. And then and and and and best bang for your buck is in the multi unit large buildings. Right. So so to see accessible housing the way I'm talking about it as far as a single detached dwelling sort of in in a new subdivision or or just a regular home in a neighborhood you wouldn't. Know the difference? That that market does not exist.

Teresa Makarewich, Program & Services Manager

OK. Very knowledgeable. What are the challenges to building residential accessible housing from a construction standpoint?

Adam  Arsenault,  No Limits Collective - Red Plaid Developments

Yeah. So why does it cost more, right? So, so if you're not in the business, of course, how would you know? Right. So everybody Says well, how how could it cost more like it what? What is different? Well and and again, It comes back to how you define it. So. So in residential, how- Using  For example, you know all our homes, all our traditional homes, have basements, but the way a basement is built like a, you'll never see a home without steps that has a basement. So so the reason why that is is because the main floor being wood so so you know not to get too technical, but basically the ground can't touch the wood. So your grade or your or your your your land can't touch a wood it has to touch concrete or or a waterproof  Surface. So because the main floor is wood, it has to  Be lifted up out of the round. So what end up - What ends up happening is you have the concretes it's 6 inches above the ground and then you have your floor which is 12 inches in height. So automatically at bare minimum a house with a basement is going to be 18 inches above The ground. So you're going to Have three steps. You know, 18 inches is about 3 steps. Minimum right and and sometimes you'll see one or two steps, and sometimes you'll see six or seven steps. It just sort of depends on the grade and the height of your ground. But ultimately, because of that simple fact, you know not to go into anything else. If you consider inclusive design and and so the City of Edmonton has defined, it's one of the few municipalities right now that has in Alberta that is defined inclusive housing in residential. So one of the things the City of Edmonton has specified, or their very first thing, is that all entrances to a home must be barrier free. You say OK. That reasonable, but that's near impossible to do in our traditional housing. Unless you have three to four ramps. So who's going to buy a house with three to four ramps? If you want to meet this definition of inclusive. So, if you have, if you have a side door, a back door and a front door and and a garage from the garage into the house, that's four ramps or even no side or that's that's three ramps now you need. So, who is going to buy a home with three ramps on it? If again, we're meeting the the the definition of inclusive, which really there is no point because there is no benefit. But that's a whole other conversation. Why there is no benefit. But but if, if that's what we call our definition of inclusive and residential. It's not practical. So. So why don't we have inclusive housing? It's because our our traditional build methods don't accommodate it. Unless you pay more so. So, all that can be deleted. A house can be sunken down. Your your floor can be inset and concrete. All these things can be done. But it's not done so therefore it's more expensive. So essentially if you want to have say level entry so level entry is is You know the Rolls Royce of of Inclusive housing, right? So no, no, no stairs, no ramps. It's just level, right? No thresholds, even or or or a threshold under 3/4 of an inch. So easy rollover so level entry is achievable. Very achievable. But in our traditional construction, it's very expensive. So that's really what it comes down to. So, so you you essentially have to lower the basement down, so your your basement goes lower into the ground, everything is lower down. And and it just takes more logistics. And it it's just, it's just different from our  Like I said, it's not on our assembly line. So, all of a sudden everybody has to do something different. It becomes a custom build, and everybody knows in construction, as soon as you would throw in the word custom, it's a premium. So, it's not that it can't be done, it's just that it's a luxury item and people don't want that luxury item, right or they just are unwilling to pay because of everything we talked about. So the only way to truly achieve inclusive living if we go by Edmonton's definition level entry. Or or barrier free entry to all exits and entrances to the home you need. You need no basement. That's that's that's really the best way to do it. It's the easiest and simplest way to do it. However, that in itself has its own set of stigmas people don't like no basement, they don't trust it, they are unfamiliar. They're nervous. So, so that in itself, let alone the inclusive part, but just a house built with no basement. Has a stigma around it as well. Again, that can be dispelled through education but it's a one to one sort of thing. It's just one person at a time, and even that itself that, that, that type of build can be a little bit more expensive just because we don't do it very often. So, like I said, from a construction standpoint, you know, and I've, I've really just focused just on the entry to the home, right. I mean there, there's, there's other things, too, a barrier Clear, accessible or inclusive House needs more space, right? So, you need your 5 foot turning circles, so you need - You just need more space. Well, more space costs money. You know, if every house is boiled down to a price per square foot and I need an extra 250 square feet to be barrier free, I'm incurring. I'm incurring a cost. There's there's no  You know there's  No Gray area there. It's very black and white. And then and then after that, yeah, there can be specific types of plumbing fixtures, different cabinet styles, different specific appliances that are all all more expensive. So ultimately, it's kind of a chicken or the egg or it's, yeah, it's, it's where things are more expensive because we don't do it very often - So nobody wants to buy it. So, we don't do it  Very often, so things are more expensive and it's just it's just a negative loop, right? It's very hard to break out of that negative loop. Well, it's it. It hasn't happened yet. Right, you know, cause how do you how do you create the demand with with those obstacles that that's really the the key there.

Teresa Makarewich, Program & Services Manager

So how do you overcome these challenges?

Adam  Arsenault,  No Limits Collective - Red Plaid Developments

So, we're sort of at the pinnacle of our kindness, right? So so, through all this time, I've kind of come to well, I've I've come to learn all these things that we're talking about now, right. And then like I said, this is all just based on on trying trying to build accessible housing and failing over and over and Over, but succeeding sometimes. You know we have built some. One of the things that you get all the time when you're talking to people is they. Agree there's a Need for accessible housing. It's just not for them. So, everybody says for sure. We need accessible housing. Politicians say it. Everybody says it right. Not for profits Say it. Seniors say it - just not for them. So, what we're trying to do now is we're  Trying to call people's bluff. Essentially, we're saying, OK, you believe in it, you agree in it, but just for somebody else, then build it for somebody else then. So, we're we're calling their bluff, so. So, our whole Model now is based on the investor, somebody that's building a purpose, a A purpose built rental right. And we're saying to that investor, you agree there's you, there's a need for accessible housing. Just not for yourself Build it then for somebody else. Because there is a need for it, the demand technically exists, just not in the build. The demand exists right now in the rental market, right? So, there's there's there's thousands and thousands of people that would rent an accessible unit, especially at an accessible, single detached home that was fully accessible. But not nobody to build it so. We're. We're focusing on the demand for rent right now with the hope that the demand to build would be lagging. So. So the more you're building as rentals now, the more you're showing that inclusive design can still be beauty. Ohh, the more you're showing and and and rounding out a definition of what that even means as far as inclusive design, the more you're putting it in plain sight to try and dispel the stigma that it means you're weak, it means you're going to deteriorate it. You know, it's as looking at as there's a major stigma that it's a negative  Thing right, so and and just what does it look like? I mean people just don't even know what an inclusive home looks like. So, So what does it look like inside? So that whole idea about using the demand for for rentals to get the units built in the 1st place to get them in plain sight and hopefully we can break  Our negative feedback loop, where now we're starting to change some of the Stigma because we're Building them, we're starting to lower the costs. Ideally we want them in Apple to Apple like inclusive versus non inclusive. It should should be the same, right? Or ideally at some point cheaper to build inclusive, obviously then we'd be really winning. But the idea? Is that just by getting them built and getting them in plain sight, We can start to hopefully create the demand for for the people to build them for themself. And once people are building them for themselves, the builders will come. And then once the builders come now you're you have a you have a regular market. Now you're actually gonna you you will build that assembly line and cost will come down and and and our hope is our hope is that eventually It it, it is a viable option.  like we don't believe in the bungalow, you know, as far as our our current builds, our current option of builds in our in our infrastructure to me the bungalow is is a waste of space so that there's better things that we could be building. So our hope is at some point, Down the road,  Inclusive housing did begins to develop a very specific form, and it's repeated over and over again, and then everyone will be different and unique depending on the person that's building it. Just like every house has its differences in uniqueness, but ultimately it is a product you have a two-story with a basement. You can still have a bungalow. I suppose and then you have an inclusive build. As well, right. And it's just it's just in our repertoire of things that we build. So. So yeah. So I think that that's how we're we're attempting to to break this, this, this lack of demand is is just focusing on rentals right now, convincing investors that building inclusive is a better investment Than not building inclusive. By providing them free property management, free tenant placement and you know, very specialized in unique service even and we are even offering three times the warranty that other builders are we're trying to throw in as many incentives as we can for just your typical renter who Does care. You know, but ultimately is looking for a low risk investment we're seeing get inclusive build is the lowest risk investment you can do. Here's why and and then and then they changed their minds, right. So they were planning on building something standard just like everybody else  But they look at this and all of a sudden say, you know what, this makes a lot of sense and and maybe down the road, I myself as the investor  And move into it or my mother or my father that you know, once people see all these things and see that ultimately their investment, it's a better investment. Other things come  Out of the wood work as far as you know, this would be great down the road. It makes a lot of sense, etcetera, etcetera. So that that is our goal on a sort of a person to person property to property basis. Is is is just convincing the residential investor and it could be a one person, a couple or it could be a major investor. It doesn't. It doesn't matter. Convincing them that if they're building a income property to build that income property inclusive.

Teresa Makarewich, Program & Services Manager

I really liked your purposely built rentals that just. I liked how that sounded.

Adam  Arsenault,  No Limits Collective - Red Plaid Developments

That’s what they are called.

Teresa Makarewich, Program & Services Manager

Tell us, how does someone get a hold of yourself at no limits collective?

Adam  Arsenault,  No Limits Collective - Red Plaid Developments

You can reach me by phone Of course 780-504-5656 or living at no limits collective.com. So our website like I was saying the no limits collective you know is a separate entity from the builders. It's propped up and financed by the builders, but the program itself is just in its infancy. We do have a home page, but we don't have the full site build out yet. But essentially what will happen is anyone placing anyone building an inclusive house that's Utilizing the no limits collective, their property will go up on the website for our tenant placement partners like spinal cording to Alberta to reserve that unit on behalf of somebody  Else. So it's it's creating a network, it's creating a an archive of all inclusive houses throughout the province, and so that's the final goal for our program. It's it's not quite there yet, but it's it's being worked on and we hope to have a full launch end of June can also follow us on Instagram, Facebook at no limits collective. So a lot of ways to reach out. Any feedback. Like I said, everything I've stated here today is just is my opinion. It's based on my experience. Is this going to work? I don't know that that the feedback has been positive. You know, even even just being invited to talk here today is a good sign that the feedback has been very positive. We do have a few builds that are going into the program. That are currently in progress. We are hoping for a few more by now, but again it's it's new, right? Yeah, we like I said it's. We're we're optimistic. Everybody does love the idea, but proof would be in the pudding sort of thing. But yeah, our hope is that and our belief is that eventually we can build another inclusive city within our city. Have I got time to talk about backyard housing?

Teresa Makarewich, Program & Services Manager

Yeah.

Adam  Arsenault,  No Limits Collective - Red Plaid Developments

I probably should have specified that in the beginning, but really our main focus is is like I said on the investor and then and then the product that we're focusing on is the backyard house or the Garden suite just because it's top of mind right now, Edmonton in particular has really opened up the door and their bylaws to build  A backyard house in in in any property in the city, I think other jurisdictions will follow suit, so garden suites, backyard housing is very top of mind right now. You we really have the ability to build our city again, you know 40-50 thousand homes that qualify for a backyard house. But once it's that backyard house is Built to be non accessible, it will forever be that way. So you know what we would love is for people in that and people in other not for profits is to start advocating that every garden suite, every backyard house should be built inclusive to a basic level of inclusivity because because why not, right? You know our, our our major point is that an inclusive home can benefit 100% of the population, a non inclusive home can only benefit 75% of the population. So why are we building when we have a chance to to build our city again, a city within our our city and in every municipality across Alberta. You know, Alberta can truly be a world leader in inclusive housing, but it just takes the advocacy to to not shame anyone. But just say, hey, look, you know, anytime you're you're doing a garden or backyard. Why would you do it with three steps to the front door? Generally, backyard housing and garden suites do not have a basement just because of the proximity to the alley or or the size of them. Generally, the return on investment for a basement in backyard housing isn't profit.

So by by definition, backyard housing to make them inclusive is a much, much much easier than trying to change the stigma in our new subdivisions in our urban sprawl. So it's it's a great place to start, but ultimately if nobody's pushing and nobody's advocating, these houses will just be built and 100 years from now we'll look back and we'll have a whole. Our city will double in size and we will still have no inclusive housing because you know, nobody realizes that the opportunity we're still talking about what what is the definition? Well, meanwhile, these houses are going up, right and the governments are encouraging them. They're saying yes, you get. You can get a grant or you can get. There are incentives you know, to build a backyard house not in Edmonton, but in other areas, but that's not combined with any kind of motivation to go inclusive and really it. It should almost be mandatory. I don't. I couldn't see the municipalities doing that, but it the incentive should be so good that. It's essentially you wouldn't. You'd be silly not to go inclusive with backyard housing. So yeah, we we we firmly. I believe all backyard houses and garden suites in Alberta should be built to a basic level of inclusiveness and and we're trying to bring in more and more builders to take a stand to actually say to say no so and that, that that in itself is challenging. But for a builder to say, you know what, I'm not going to build it unless you go inclusive. So that's what. Red Plaid developments does, but it is is difficult, right? But ultimately we're looking for builders to take that stand and say, you know, do you want to build a traditional home in your front yard? Of course, that's that's great. But for the backyard house, it needs to meet this level of inclusivity or you're going to have to find somebody else to build. That and that, that's that's very difficult to do. We need that and and similar communities to help. Get that message out there to advocate for that and the builders will follow suit if they know there's community support for that. We hope that that shouldn't come to that with with offering the incentives that we offer the, the, the investor, the homeowner sees the logic and building inclusive sees the benefits. So it it doesn't really come to that. So it's it's more the builder just saying you know. Ohh did you know and then and saying and basing their default as an inclusive build. So the first proposal we provide is an inclusive proposal, right? So we're not starting from non inclusive or non accessible and then working our way back. We're starting it accessible and inclusive and then when they try and change things we have to say, well you know now you're not making this accessible anymore. So you will lose these benefits, right? So it's it's it's, it's the starting point. You're starting from an accessible and and then and then convincing them of all the benefits as opposed to the other way. Around and and and and and the refusal of work should be few and far between with the right incentives. So it's it's just educating. Like I said, person to person, job to job and I and I am finding that most people it's not whether it's going to be inclusive or not inclusive once they see everything it's more just whether they want to build it or not right. The financial investment, I mean it's it's it's a big deal, so it's not. You spend the time with someone, you lay everything out. They're on board with inclusivity. They just. They just don't have that information. Right. And so they're on board with inclusive build. You approach it the right way. You offer these incentives. They are on board. We can do this. We can build backyard houses to be accessible, you know, and and the builder or the private company doesn't have to suffer or or or turn away work. It's just getting. Out there, getting the word out there like I said, and and advocating and making sure that anytime someone brings it up as far as I want to build a. Backyard House doesn't matter which builder they're. Which realtor they're talking to? Which friend or family somebody is saying? Yeah, but you make sure you do it inclusive for that backyard house. Great idea. You know, whether it's for your mom, dad, yourself, son, daughter, an investment property or not. If it's in the backyard, it's going to be a garden suite. It should be inclusive. And that's to me. That's where we start and where we get it in plain sight. Where we break the cycle, break the stigmas, get people's eyes on it, show that it can be a great investment property with the. Support of the. Cities and and keep growing right because the there there is, like I said, there is a major need. Everybody talks about seniors their age are our aging demographic, aging demographic every you know two days. But the aging demographic is is is not they're not moving, they're not. You know they're not going anywhere that the houses we're building for them or the houses they don't want they don't want to be in community living. They want to stay in their neighborhoods. So the backyard housing allows all that. We just have to get it commonplace and in plain. Right. And and standardize it and produce them at A at a. The way we produce our our regular homes today.

Teresa Makarewich, Program & Services Manager

That was wonderful. What do you hope to see in the future for the no limits collective?

Adam  Arsenault,  No Limits Collective - Red Plaid Developments

So we call our entire initiative. You know, I got names for everything, but we call our entire initiative a city within a city. So it's it's so our our vision is an inclusive city within a city, say a mature neighborhood. Now you know has 10/15/20 accessible homes in it, hiding in plain sight, right? So from the outside, they don't look any different. But you just know and you would just know any, any backyard house you see, you know, from this point going. Board you would know it's it's, it's inclusive. In an ideal world, right? And then things can follow that right? So so support services going into our mature neighborhoods, revitalization of businesses, I mean soft density is what what what everybody what everybody wants, right. So yeah, revitalization of mature neighborhoods long term long term, we're just looking for inclusive. Housing to be commonplace and create create the. And so that in the end it it would, it would go to new subdivisions, right? So I kind of made a mistake when I first started, I started a new subdivisions trying to build inclusive housing. And there just there just. Isn't an appetite. There, that system is just not set up for it. But again, you know, starting from the low hanging fruit. The Garden suite and working our way up. You know, our hope is that is a yeah, an inclusive single detached home is is commonplace in our in our new developments, right. Again, I'm not talking apartments. I'm not talking condos. I'm talking, you know what? 1800 to 2500 square. But. House for a family, right? That can be a reality. But you know we need to. I I like I said, I tried to start there, but I I started at the end. You know, I just. I just like I said, this is just sort of been forming over time. So now I I see that the low hanging fruit and and is is is the garden suite is the investor. And and I I our our hope is that. Yeah, we we create an entire network, an entire city that is inclusive that, but it's universal. You know, it doesn't have to be for someone with a disability. It's just it's there, the infrastructure is there and and it's it's there as a resource, right? Be absolutely silly not to. So once in a cities lifetime opportunity. So I I just I I guess I just really hope we don't waste it.

Teresa Makarewich, Program & Services Manager

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Voice of Albertans with disabilities believes in access for all. So I think this is a great project. Thank you for your time and energy today. Adam, your support for the community is of value for everyone. Is there anything else you want to say today that I haven't asked you?

Adam  Arsenault,  No Limits Collective - Red Plaid Developments

No, I like. I just thanks for having me, of course. And anyone that can reach out to me anytime like I'm. I'm. Always happy to take feed. Back questions. Criticisms. Comments. You know, this is really going to take a lot of people. It's it's a community thing, right? Many builders, many people, many communities, and not for profits. So we're just looking to engage as many people as we can to bring to bring everyone together for that, for that advocacy and. And like I said, we're not. We're not. Jamming anything down, anyone's throats or anything, we're just literally educating. So we educate the general public on what's possible and and then. Hope that we. Continue to provide more incentives, more nudges, and and then I really think something something great can happen.

Teresa Makarewich, Program & Services Manager

That's great. Thank you for your time and energy again today, Adam, Voice of Albertans with disabilities, is across disability and nonprofit organization of and for people with disabilities. We are guided by the principles of accessibility, equity and inclusion. You can learn about that services on our website at that society.ca or call the office at 780-488-9088 For more information. If you have a topic you would like to hear more about in a podcast, please e-mail Teresa at vad@vadsociety.ca with your topic and ideas, speaker suggestions, and your feedback. Signing off for today. Together we hold the power.