Ep 152 - Terra's Gambling Addiction Hid In Plain Sight Surrounded By Alcoholism.

Today, I am thrilled to introduce you to Terra Carbert, the founder of the Self Discovery Sisterhood, coach, and host of the Ambitious Addicts podcast. Terra shares her story of growing up with the family disease of addiction and experiencing loss at a young age. Terra opens up about her gambling addiction and how she seeks support to keep her recovery a priority. Let's meet Terra, a self-described "human who gives a damn."  

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Transcript

00:01

You’re listening to the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast, a place for real conversations with people who love someone with the disease of addiction. Now here is your host, Margaret Swift Thompson.

Intro:  Welcome back to the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast. Today I’m delighted to introduce you to my latest guest Terra Carbert. Terra shares her story of growing up amongst addiction, experiencing loss at a young age, and growth with her own long-term recovery. Terra opens up about her own addiction with gambling and how she seeks support to keep her recovery a priority. Let’s meet Terra.

00:51

The Embrace Family Recovery Podcast

Margaret  01:06

I’m thrilled today to bring you to the show and for people to get a chance to hear from you. And today my guest is Terra Carbert who is going to share her story with us. And I know families are going to be listening because you have a perspective in your story that isn’t necessarily commonly shared or talked about. So, thank you for being with. And I’d love to start by having you introduce yourself in whatever way you’d like to introduce yourself to the audience.

Terra Carbert  01:32

Thanks, Margaret. I’m Terra, I am a person in long term recovery from lots of things. I think the best way to summarize that would be self-destructive behavior. I grew up in an addicted household. 

So, you could say ACOA would apply to me, I can, there are a lots of A meetings I could go to when I’m engaging in 12 Step. I am I personally impacted by a gambling addiction. So, I owe a little over seven years without placing a bet on anything about myself since I’ve found and started really living a life of recovery. 

So now I do several things. I host a podcast called Ambitious Addicts, similar to yours, all addictions are highlighted, and then all pathways to healing. I just like people to come and tell their stories and kind of lay that out in a message of experience, strength, and hope. 

And I’m the founder of the Self-Discovery Sisterhood, which was born out of an expansion of some coaching services that I do for self-discovery, mindset coaching.

Margaret  02:36

And we were just chatting before we got on at how different life looks with recovery. How simple with recovery. So no, this will be a hopeful podcast. And before we move into the hope of it, if you’d be willing to go back and share a little of your story. You shared that you are from a family of the disease and how early were you when you remember thinking things wrong? Something’s off.

Terra Carbert  03:02

I think there’s a memory that stands out really, really well. of witnessing my stepfather tearing a phone book in half, after an argument with my mother and knowing that, that was wrong, but not connecting the dots that maybe alcohol played a played a part in that reaction. 

And then I’d say as a teenager, I became maybe preteen even I became more conscious of how like alcohol was always present at everything that my family did, but not when I went to other people’s houses. And I’m starting to hear the sentences of like, he was just drunk, or she was just drunk or, you know, the excuse making that can happen when we have loved ones with addiction and having you know, of a substance speak the thing that gets the blame for the bad behavior. But definitely, as a young teen, there’s some real standout memories of counting, counting the number of drinks consumed, counting the number of cigarettes in the ashtray. Those types of things for me really stand out as like that must be when I was really aware that this wasn’t normal because I was counting and comparing and like I was building some case that there was a problem. But everyone in my family drank and almost everyone in my family used cigarettes as well.

Margaret  04:48

When you talk about noticing it was different when you were at other people’s houses. That is such a familiar part of the story that even little ones don’t know necessarily really knowing the difference because this is the norm, right? Where we live is where we live. And then when we start exploring other people’s homes and visiting friends, maybe having a sleepover or going over after school for dinner and hanging out, whatever it is, then you see differences in family.

Terra Carbert: Yeah. 

Margaret:  Do you hear that a lot? Also, when talking to people?

Terra Carbert  05:18

Yeah, yeah, I think you know, we grow up like, you grow up you, but this is our normal, right? And I think many of us believe our normal is the same as everybody else’s normal until we see. That’s not how they live. Yeah.

Margaret  05:34

You moved into your own addiction that you identified and your own recovery. Did anyone else in your family get help for their addiction? Or have you been wanting to blaze the trail or have people found help.

Terra Carbert  05:49

Definitely blazed the trail, my mom died of cancer when I was 25. And in her last six months of life, she had stopped drinking and stopped smoking. But that was not necessarily a recovery path per se, as much as it was more so like, I hate the way this taste or feel in my body. And then she started to be disgusted by the smell of cigarettes. And she may have asked so about some pain relief with a different type of substance. And if I knew anyone who could get it for her.

Margaret  06:24

So, the disease was alive and well.

Terra Carbert  06:26

It was it was in gambling, I didn’t even recognize I mean, I recognize the alcohol, I recognize the food and the nicotine dependence. I did not recognize the gambling was an addiction in, in my growing up world, either. I didn’t think of gambling as an addiction, of course, after having experienced I certainly do now.

Margaret  06:51

Which brings up another good point, a question I would be curious to ask is, when you grew up watching this happen and becoming more aware in your family? Did you have a conscious thought of I will not drink like that, or I will not use nicotine, or were you any kind of reaction to that when you were coming up through that?

Terra Carbert  07:11

Sure, coming up through it as I’ve never I’m never gonna do that, right. And sure enough, I did. I did all the things. I did all the things I said I was never going to do. And at the same time, I would say that determination to not become addicted to alcohol likely just shifted my disease to a different behavior. And that behavior was gambling. 

Margaret: I get that. 

Terra Carbert:  Yeah, so I there was some part of me that knew like, it’s wrong to get drunk every weekend it’s wrong. Like, that didn’t feel right for me, right. And I didn’t keep alcohol in the home. So, there were things that very much informed how I became a parent. And my relationship with alcohol, almost like a limit I had put on myself, I guess that was conscious that I didn’t really realize that disease of addiction was already alive and well within me. And I was just turning it to different things. Because I was like, like, I know, I can’t do that much of drug A, drug B, and I danced around with a lot of substances, and could have become addicted to any one of them. But gambling is the thing that sunk its teeth into. Got me crawling in the rooms.

Margaret  08:27

I appreciate your candor there. And I think a lot of that is so important for families to hear, because they do not often understand that. While the concept of cross addiction, I think your story demonstrates that it is a no-fault disease that creates powerlessness and unmanageability because you were adamant you weren’t going to be like that person or do those things. And I think if it were up to willpower and our capacity to not, there, we would have the answer that this wasn’t a disease within us through that with your own journey. 

Terra Carbert  09:01

I would agree with that with my honor. And I would say the interesting thing about my relationship with substances is that I didn’t you know, we often talk about that invisible line of going from problematic use into addiction. I didn’t cross that invisible line with the other things. And I certainly did with the gambling and so I can look at my history and go oh yeah, you know, I’m a person who lives with the disease of addiction. And I need to manage my disease.

Margaret  09:38

I need to manage my disease. It’s good way of framing it. What does managing your disease look like for you?

Terra Carbert  09:44

Yeah, and I think this is something that’s like super important to talk about at least it is for me personal passion for me is all pathways are valid. It’s like whatever the hell works for you. Also, I should ask about language I’m a person who swears is that something that your show tolerates or no. 

You know, whatever it takes for you, whatever works for you. 

So, what works for me is 12 step recovery, therapy was heavier in the beginning, therapy kind of on an as needed basis if I’m encountering something that I have that I really can’t unpack effectively on my own. And coaching as a modality to be future focused and my meetings really keep me very present focus. So it’s kind of like What tool do I need based on what it is that I’m in the midst of, but meetings are kind of my medicine and that what that looks like for me is at least one in person 12 Step meeting a week, at least one conversation with my sponsor, and at least one conversation with a sponsee. That go up or down and some fellowship with others in recovery to that’s what works for me today. I don’t know if that will be what works for me tomorrow but it’s working today, and I maintain abstinence from gambling and now also now choose not to drink almost at all I had like a sangria in BC and intentional drink to go with an Italian meal I guess. So. Yeah, it’s evolved to because you know, as my recovery has changed, so has what I need.

11:23

This podcast is made possible by listeners like you.

Bumper:  When I reflect on my decades of work with families of people with the disease of addiction, I have seen few siblings get the same resources provided partners, parents, or even children.

Numerous siblings have told me they felt they couldn’t share in a traditional Al-Anon or Nar-Anon meeting because the parents and partners pain seems so much more significant than their own. 

The Embrace Family Recovery Coaching Group for siblings will meet for six group coaching sessions including education on the no fault disease, connection with other siblings, strategizing together communication, boundary setting, and some surprise guests who are siblings themselves. 

This summer course for siblings begins Tuesday, July 16th and the group will be for participants ages 16 years and older. 

To find out more head to my website or hit the link that you’ll find in my show notes below.

13:08

You’re listening to the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast. Can you relate to what you’re hearing? Never missed a show by hitting the subscribe button. Now back to the show.

Margaret  13:18

I love your concept of throw whatever we’ve got at this illness. Because I think that one of the things that comes up a lot is anger and resentment towards the person. And I always say why are we letting the disease get off scott free. It’s what’s creating the turmoil, it’s what’s changing the person, it’s what’s changing our lives and our stability. So I love that, throw everything we got at the disease I would also say throw all of our pain and anguish at the disease while loving the person. Like how do we do that separation. Were you able to do that with your family being the other side of the coin with their journey or were you not given much for tools at that point to know how to navigate it?

Terra Carbert  14:06

The latter but not for lack of tools per se but lack of time. So, I was pretty young when my mom died. And then my father raised me called my dad lovely, fun story there too. But um, he died 10 years later also in his disease and was trying to learn how to love him through that and his grief while also kind of becoming more active in my own addiction. And so, with more time you know, kind of like well with more time so I had to actually learn how to do that without them being alive, that there was a lot of anger and resentment about the state of me being a human raised in an alcoholic household that I didn’t get to process directly with them. But in their earthly experience. And so I’m tearing up over here, because it still sits there a little bit like how do I release this? Fully? How do I fully give the forgiveness when they’re not here to have that with? So in BC I like picked up a phone at a cemetery is the phones, to wind that’s intended to allow you to have conversations with loved ones who have passed on?

Margaret:  Oh, 

Terra Carbert:  Yeah. So, I’m still working on what does that look like with them having passed? I think I’ve done it in my heart. But it’s hard, you know, you don’t get the conversation. 

Margaret  15:35

And I know that there are people out there who are in your same shoes and haven’t even maybe broached the idea of doing the healing without them being alive. Yeah. So what have you found helpful in the work that you’ve done,

Terra Carbert  15:49

I just have more like talking to them, like they’re here. Imagining, like the best version of them being the one that responds and explains and also, I think I have this benefit of having lived with addiction. So also being able to very much empathize, that like, okay, that that’s probably not what they wanted to do, or how they wanted to treat you. And, you know, we all do the best that we can with what we’ve got. And I recognize their history to that they each had their own unique set of circumstances and how they were raised, that influenced them and how they carried that forward. So, talking to them, like they’re alive, imagining what they would say in their healed state, writing stuff down, like writing letters, and all the things like burning them, putting them in a flowing river, like whatever. I’ve tried a whole lot of things, but I think the conversations, probably the pretend discussions are probably the ones that have helped me the most.

Margaret  16:54

Beautiful And I’m sorry, you lost them so young. That’s really hard.

Terra Carbert  16:57

Me too. Me too. And that’s another resentment thing that I get, you know, I still worked through, like, if somebody’s complaining about the parent, like, that’d be nice. Sometimes they’ll throw that out. I’m working on that. 

Margaret  17:12

At the end of the day, we’re all human right? And so yes, we’re never perfect, and we have a lot of growing to do. And there’s new steps and stages as we go along. And I think having grace with ourself is so vital, 

Terra Carbert:  so vital, 

Margaret:  and also gives you that ability to have grace with them, like you said, to understand that they didn’t want this either. But they were trapped by their disease. And that’s what I got. 

Terra Carbert  17:35

Yeah. Your comment about the blaming the disease, or blaming, not the debate, blaming the person and not being just watched painkiller? No, haven’t seen it. And there is quite a bit of narrative that comes from the pharmaceutical company to blame the addict. And not the disease of addiction, and definitely not the addictive pill. So 

Margaret:  Wow. 

Terra Carbert:  Yeah,

Margaret  18:06

We’ve got work to do. 

Terra Carbert  18:08

Yeah. But that’s where that, you know, we get a lot of messaging in the world around us about addicts, and I own that, that phrasing. I did introduce myself as a person in long term recovery from many things. But yeah, I’m an addict. The name of my podcast is Ambitious Addicts. Because for me, that’s kind of owning this part of my identity in a shameless way, I don’t have any shame about my, about my disease.

Margaret  18:36

It’s like taking the word that’s used against somebody in a in a vile or ugly way and saying, I’m gonna say it and own it. And the other thing for me, it’s remembering. I’m one bite away one 

Terra Carbert:  right there. That’s it. 

Margaret:  That’s why that word helps me. It is definitely not shaming it is empowering for me. If somebody else labels me it in a derogatory way, we’ll have a whole different conversation. 

Terra Carbert  19:02

Absolutely. Yeah.

Lots of talk about this in the mental health profession. In particular, right, like, don’t call me an addict, but I could call myself whatever I want.

Margaret  19:13

So, let’s talk about your gambling journey. Let’s talk about howow that started. What age was what you know, Avenue?

Terra Carbert  19:25

Yeah, yeah, I’ll go all the way back to the beginning before I was even gambling and talk about early exposure. 

I had a really strong relationship with my grandfather. He was kind of standing in, in this in between with my biological father died by suicide when I was three. And grandpa kind of stepped in and filled a bit of a fatherly gap for a long time was my biggest cheerleader and I was his side kick. And he would take me to the VFW where he would play poker with his four buddies and backup point cribbage. And he’d played the football numbers, and he played the pull tabs, and he played all the things. And I learned all the things, I learned how to play back Jack, probably before I learned how to consistently make my bed. And I thought it was so fun. And then I, I went to a horse, horse races like once, I think when I was younger, and he placed a bet for me. So that exposure, I think, is where I developed the connection with gambling and the games. And there was something about that, especially with the cards for me, kind of would call it Big Shotism in our program, kind of felt like a bit of luck on that girl at the table rake in the pot. So, I played a lot of card games. And I did get introduced, you know, the casinos here in Minnesota, you can gamble at the age of 18 in the casinos. And so that was my primary form of gambling was casino gambling, and a lot of cards which, you know, when people imagine a compulsive gambler, who’s a woman, they imagined a lot of slot machines. And so, it was it was cards and in multiple forms that was probably the early start of my disease. And the turning on of that was in my late teens, early 20s. And as you can imagine, when my mom got sick, a big you know, the volume went up. I hadn’t crossed the line, yet to addiction, but I see problem use back then. And then a little bit of you know, oh, what am I doing, and then a big escalation again later, after, after my grandmother died. And my grandmother, the wife of the grandpa I talked about, she would come visit me for about a month at a time and one of the outings she liked to do was go to the casino and play. She had like favorite slot machines, I would say she was kind of a controlled gambler. But I would go sneak and like get more money out of the cash machine and play longer because I heard through it and it really escalated, it escalated again then and that dance with gambling along with a number of other storms. But you know Grandma, as I as I start going into casino more start going by myself will start betting more dad dies historic, more bad work experience, you know, and so gambling became the thing that I went to, to either escape an emotion I didn’t want to experience or alter the emotional experience I was having, or to generate fun or excitement or something pleasurable. And it turned into the thing I used to cope with the reality I didn’t cope with.

Margaret  22:49

When you talk about this, it sounds very familiar to every story around alcohol, drugs, food. For some reason people have a different feeling about gambling. It’s not talked about as freely education around it as an addiction is less when you say I danced or Tangoed with different substances, but there was always somewhat of a limit. Didn’t see this as an addiction. When was it that that penny dropped, and you went oh, this is really no different than what I’ve observed and others

Terra Carbert  23:30

Not until I had my own rock bottom moment as I say maybe a little earlier than that when I was kind of when I was trying to control it and I couldn’t.

Margaret  23:43

Part of your journey was okay this is getting out of hand I gotta pull back I gotta navigate it negotiate with it try to do less of it. 

Terra Carbert  23:52

Yeah, and I wish I could say that it was because of anything other than the financial consequences it’s not you know that was that was it but there was a wake up moment to but I did I did I took steps to try to protect myself from myself and at that point I would really buy awareness of like this is the problem with certainly escalating. But I still don’t think I thought of it as an addiction yet until I found recovery and until I started really researching how do I get help and I didn’t do that until I had thoughts of suicide on my last day. I mean that’s the unique thing about gambling is gambling leaves this story you know the cost of it.  The other, I’ll speak substances you know substances we all kind of consciously are aware this could kill me, that my body could deteriorate, that I could overdose you know that’s that’s there that death warning. It’s there. Same for cigarettes, right but with gambling. There’s no death warning and our overdose is suicide. That’s how it ends for a lot of people, five times the rate of suicide of any other addiction in the study that I’ve seen published, and not a lot of studies, because a lot of people don’t see this as an addiction, they see it as a pastime or something fun that people do together. And when people perceive gamblers, at least from what I’ve read, you know, it’s like this degenarate, you know, you’re a degenerate. And it’s, it’s, it’s very much an invisible addiction. So people don’t see it, smell it, hear it?

Margaret  25:33

Very secretly, could be.

Terra Carbert  25:35

Very. I was living in two worlds. No one, no one but no one knew no one knew how bad

Margaret  25:43

So that’s another component that I think is really interesting from the family perspective is because it is so secretive and the bottom is so destructive. It’s like, the warning signs are not as easily seen. And the end is so dire. What were the people around you saying, seeing noticing, doing as you were getting worse in your addiction?

Terra Carbert  26:08

Well, it was more so like, I haven’t seen you in forever.

Margaret  26:13

Isolation.

Terra Carbert  26:15

Isolation, in actually inaction as well. So going, you know, by myself, I was a casino gambler, going by myself to gambling establishments, not making commitments or plans, not following through, and then some asking people to lend me money started to show up as I had run out or depleted the resources that I had to access my own. 

And the question, I was a high earner. And the question of like, how, you know, I’m asking a friend who earns less than me to lend me money. And then the lying starts and then the delay like, oh, sorry, I messed this thing up in my budget. Like, could you just lend me a couple 100 bucks till next Friday when I get paid? And then some excuse coming the next Friday and just kind of what’s going on? And Tara like, this isn’t you make excellent, you know, transparent with my friends about how much money are you make X make this? Why this is an add up, you know, but I, I always had an excuse. 

And so that’s one thing like, if suddenly, someone who’s not ever had financial issues is suddenly asking you to lend them money. That could be a warning sign. The other mood and irritability and, and lack of kind of commitment to come do the thing. You know, I’m somebody who loves to spend time with friends and family and I was non-committal. I’m not sure I can make it because in the back of my mind, I was planning the next trip to Gamble, like, Oh, what if I want to gamble that day? I don’t know. I don’t I don’t know if I can come to your birthday party. 

Margaret:  Want to keep the options open? 

Terra Carbert  27:58

I want to keep the option open and go engage my addiction. 

Margaret:  Were you in a primary relationship? At that point, when your gambling was progressing? Are you single?

Terra Carbert  28:06

A little bit of both. And throughout my gambling history, I am single and have always been single, like single never married and that definition, but I’ve had a couple of long-term relationships. I often choose people who had substance use disorder as my partners, some of whom also thought gambling was super fun. So, my gambling was never questioned by anyone. 

Margaret  28:28

So, my language my disease knows who I need to be with to cover my own addiction. 

Terra Carbert:  Yeah, it just wants to stay alive. Right. 

Margaret:  So ironic food addict was engaged in or and or dated at least two chefs, right? Like, no coincidences befriended friends who were either more obese than me, or were connected to restaurants connected to grocery stores Connect. I mean, looking back, it’s like, How did I not see it? But as you’ve said, so Well, I was aware of drugs and alcohol. I had no clue if it was an addiction. I didn’t think it was possible. Which made it more shameful for me because I thought I was just a weak willed, pathetic piece of crap. 

Terra Carbert  29:13

Yep. Something something’s wrong with me. Right? And of course, yes, something’s wrong with that. But we are not inherently flawed. We have a mental health condition that needs treating.

Margaret  29:23

And I really appreciate that way of putting it. Because I think that people get angry when versus I have a no-fault disease, which is what I truly believe we have. What I don’t think people give credence to and understand is that the one thing about our illness that no other illness has is we have the responsibility to clean up the wreckage, once we do get into recovery, 

Terra Carbert:  We do.

Margaret:  We are responsible for that. And that’s actually a beautiful part of recovery that most other illnesses don’t get to experience our work. But woof What a beautiful thing to witness.

Terra Carbert  29:59

But back to what we were talking about before we have done the recording right? You made a comment me seems like you do a lot of well yeah, I know that I you know, I want to be part of the solution. Well yeah, but I never thought like that is an addict is not what I did. The recovery has changed the entire way that I see myself that I see the world that I see my life and without it, I’d be dead. I truly believe that

Outro:  Join us again next time when I continue my conversation with Terra, and she shares the progression of her gambling addiction and the moment she reached out for help.

If you’re finding value in anything you’re hearing, please subscribe and follow where you listen to your podcasts and if you haven’t checked out my YouTube channel you might want to do that. It’s the Embrace Family Recovery YouTube Channel where I offer some resources and information that I don’t share anywhere else.

Margaret  30:57

I want to thank my guest for their courage and vulnerability and sharing parts of their story. Please find resources on my website, 

embracefamilyrecovery.com

This is Margaret Swift Thompson. 

Until next time, please take care of you!