Change Your Mind, Change Your Life : Neurolinguistic Programming with Dr. Will Horton

Unlock the transformative secrets of Neurolinguistic Programming (NLP) as Dr. Will Horton, a clinical psychologist and NLP master, joins us to share groundbreaking insights into personal development and mind-body healing. This episode promises to challenge your perceptions, inviting you to explore the 'how' of our brain's operations and the vast potential within hypnosis and NLP. Dr. Horton's seasoned perspective on psychology and addiction treatment offers a compelling narrative on the personalized nature of psychological experiences and the power of visualization in fostering change.

Venture beyond conventional wisdom with us and discover how self-persuasion is the linchpin of personal transformation. Dr. Horton's riveting stories, from earning a black belt to battling addiction, illustrate the profound impact of mastering the art of influencing oneself before attempting to influence others. Learn about the ethical use of NLP and its application across various aspects of life, from strengthening communication to navigating the complex arenas of mass persuasion and dietary manipulation.

Wrap up your listening experience with a dive into the essence of adult relationships and the heightened need for health advocacy in today's medical landscape. Dr. Horton's personal anecdotes and professional expertise converge to paint a vivid picture of self-ownership in healthcare. Through this episode, gain actionable insights on the use of NLP for not just overcoming personal hurdles, but also for rising to excellence in all facets of life, backed by a candid look at the success habits across different socio-economic backgrounds.

You can find Dr. Will online at https://www.nfnlp.com and https://www.drwillhorton.com .

This episode was sponsored by Beam Minerals, the Lourdes Hydrofix, and the LumiVitae Cell Powered hydrogen water bottle. Learn more at https://www.jenmayo.com by clicking on the Jen's Favorite Things tab.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 2:37

Neurolinguistic programming expert, dr Will Horton, joins me for a conversation today on NLP for addiction recovery, personal development and business success. Dr Will brings 35 years of experience and constant research to the space of treating addictions and understanding brain science to help others heal at layers beneath the conscious mind. In our conversation we dive into the use of NLP and overcoming addictions, cultivating better relationships, fostering self-awareness and building successful businesses. So welcome to the podcast, dr Will.

Speaker 1: 3:14

Glad to be here it's always fun to speak about this stuff. Yes, yes, it's all good. So I'm really big into mind body medicine and just kind of conveying to people who are on, you know, a more holistic health journey how the mind and body play together to create both mental and physical wellness both mental and physical wellness and I know you have a lot of experience in this realm, so I'm very excited to talk to you today. So you're an expert in something called neuro linguistic programming, or NLP for short. Can you kind of describe to us what exactly that means?

Speaker 2: 3:56

Well, it's basically how your brain works, not why. I'm also a clinical psychologist, trained in cognitive behavioral therapy and a little bit of analytics, and they talk about the why of everything and I believe sometimes the why is not important, it's the what are you doing and how are you doing it? And my evidence for that is sometimes, you know, people could be in therapy for years and get great insight, but they don't change. Insight does not cause change, right, it can give it. Just you're insightful, you know.

Speaker 2: 4:34

And in my first clinical specialty, which is addictions, I see people literally drink themselves to death or drug themselves to death, see people literally drink themselves to death or drug themselves to death, knowing they're an addict, and the solution's simple stop. But they can't right right and so so that and here's a good example I always give examples, because this sounds weird about what is how's your brain work is if you, if you think about somebody you really like a buddy, a pal, a friend not a, not a lover's, just somebody you really like if you close your eyes real quick and just think about somebody you really like a buddy, a pal, a friend, not a lover's pop, just somebody you really like if you close your eyes real quick and just think about that person, right, they'll take some kind of spatial arrangement. Maybe they're right in front, maybe they're to the left. You just like this person, great.

Speaker 2: 5:15

Now what I'd like you to do is think about somebody you dislike. They're a whiner, you just don't like them. No ill will. Think about somebody you dislike. They're a whiner, you just don't like them. No ill will. It's just, I don't like this person, right. And now let this person pop into your mind and it'll be in a different spot in your mind. Now it's kind of fun if you try in vain to grab that person you dislike and move them to the spot of the person you like and see what your brain says. Yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 5:42

Most people brain go no, they don't deserve it, or they'll move if it's, and it'll bounce back and and so you know that it's very I don't want to say random, but it's very customized to the person. Okay, and you know psychology, like is trying to follow medicine where it's like you know, medicine fits. You know, if you're five foot nine and you weigh 160 pounds, if I give you 100 milligrams this, certain things are going to happen within a tight parameter Great. But when it comes to this kind of stuff, you make a picture, I make a sound. Other people want to smell or taste something. It's, it's very variable. So it's kind of it's more of it, and it's as much of an art as it is a science.

Speaker 1: 6:40

Sure, sure. And there's some kind of an art as it is a science Sure, sure. And there's some kind of crossover, or at least similarities, between NLP and hypnosis too. So what's the difference between the two?

Speaker 2: 6:59

Well, I like to say hypnosis is one thing and NLP is like high-tech hypnosis or basically waking hypnosis you can get and I clash a lot of my hypnotist friends. There's no such thing as depth of trance, None, Nada, zilch. Whatever people say, well, you need to be in like a certain level of trance to get pain control. Really.

Speaker 2: 7:17

Really, I just there was a football game a couple weeks ago where they one of the guys completed the game on a broken foot. A broken foot how was he playing the game? He blocked the pain. Women do it all the time as soon as the, if they go into labor, as soon as the baby's born, they don't remember the physical pain. Right, it's.

Speaker 2: 7:37

It's a different thing. It's and you do that with like hallucinations and hypnosis. They say there's a positive hallucination where you see something that's not there, and there's a negative hallucination where there's something there and you don't see it. Well, you need to be in deep trance bullshit. If you've ever lost your keys and you can't find them and you yell at your spouse or somebody and they where is it? Where is it? And they go, they're right there. They're right there. You were looking at them, you did not see them. You were hallucinating, you were negatively hallucinating. So, whatever you need, people think you need fancy transform, you can do wide awake, and so that's. They're kind of two sides of the same coin. I will bust myself and say, when I first got into this, the hypnotist did not like the NLPers and the NLPers did not like the hypnotist. It was too.

Speaker 2: 8:30

I mean, this is like in the early 80s. It was like, and now it's like they've kind of now, as you all know, you go to a conference, or it's kind of co-mingled Right right. It took a long time. Right, it took a long time and it's. It's pretty much that way, except in the hypnosis subgroup of regression therapists. Okay, which I laugh at regression therapy, because if you really understand how memory works, regression makes no sense.

Speaker 1: 8:58

Okay, Okay, All right. So with both of those, are we? Are we trying to tap into the subconscious mind? Then Correct?

Speaker 2: 9:06

Or just I like the other than conscious mind, subconscious, pre-conscious, you know, and and again, there's no differentiating line. It's not like you know the thermal plane, and if you ever swim and you go beneath the thermal plane and in the lake or the ocean, you know it's a big drop. Now it kind of it kind of slides right and it there's, they're constantly commingling and like when you said about mind body, we just had a wonderful example of this, uh, with the covid stuff, and I don't care what you believe either way, right, but clinical medicine acted like all we got to do is fix the body, lock down everything. Lock down everything. Why are the're acting like? Just keep the body alive.

Speaker 2: 9:53

And the you know, it's like the clinical medicine still has a tendency to think it's two different things. Right, right, and they're integrated yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:13

Yeah, and I you know, I've seen the statistics that it takes 20 years for new medical breakthroughs to really become part of the mainstream. And I kind of feel like, particularly in the mind body realm we are, we're at the beginning of that where more people in conventional medicine are kind of gradually making their way back in. This is none of this is new, where, I mean, we're basically talking about taking ancient technology but applying, you know, modern, modern science to it so we understand it better oh yeah, and, and there you know, I just was talking to somebody and I don't know our diets came up because I'm getting ready for a film.

Speaker 2: 10:55

My other thing is I act and they're like wow, you know, you look like you lost weight, you're muscling up, what are you doing? I said, well, this, this and this, and I, you know, you look like you lost weight, you're muscling up, what are you doing? I said, well, this, this and this. And I said you know, and I eat like four to five eggs at least every day, or if not every other day. And they're like that will kill you what. Where does this come from Exactly? Well, I know that's been disproven over 20 years ago.

Speaker 1: 11:24

And yet the myth continues, and we could probably go on a longer rant about, um, you know the commercial campaigns from the 80s and 90s that programmed people to think that fat was dangerous and eggs were bad for you and how that goes into your subconscious. My favorite is took the skillet.

Speaker 2: 11:35

This is your brain and it shows an egg busted. This is your brain. On drugs, they show us egg frying and I, I go that that commercial worked for me. They go oh, did you quit using drugs? No, I quit eating eggs.

Speaker 1: 11:50

Right Didn't have quite the right effect to it, so, oh gosh. So so, in terms of neuro-linguistic programming specifically, what are the tools that make it effective linguistic?

Speaker 2: 12:03

programming. Specifically, what are the tools that make it effective? Well, it uses the best of the hypnosis world and somewhat of like cognitive behavioral therapy and puts them together without challenging what's going on in someone's mind, right? It's like it doesn't put up the same defense mechanisms. If you're doing insight therapy or sometimes even hypnosis, You're just telling people, move pictures in your mind, see what happens, do this change some sounds, you know, and figure out what really motivates you, Not what you think would motivate you, what really motivates you. And once you get into that stuff, that's why NLP seems to be so effective for most things.

Speaker 1: 12:42

That's why NLP seems to be so effective for most things.

Speaker 2: 12:45

Okay, okay and so there is a lot of visualization involved in the process. Well, yeah, you could, yeah, yeah, visualization, but it could be. And again people think, oh, I can't visualize, excuse me, that's because they confuse a visualization with a Steven Spellberg movie. Right and no, you may not be avatar in there, it's just it's kind of a.

Speaker 2: 13:07

The big thing and I like it from the clinical psychology world is the current buzzword is felt sense. It's a felt sense. It may be a picture, maybe a sound maybe, but it's kind of you just kind of feel it. There's a sense of it, right, and so that I give clinical psych very good credit. I go, this makes sense.

Speaker 1: 13:27

Okay, all right. So we are using, utilizing the senses of the body in order to tap into the mind body connection, kind of thing. Okay, all right, that makes a lot of sense. So now, you mentioned earlier that you have a background in helping to treat addictions. How can NLP help with that?

Speaker 2: 13:48

Well and again it gets to. How do you keep doing the same things over and over again? What?

Speaker 2: 13:52

got me hooked in this is a quick story is I first was exposed to hypnosis in high school. There was a book it's still in print called Hypnosis for Change by, I think, the's. The name is hadley right and great little book. It's a. It's good little book, by the way, but it talks a little bit about hypnosis. Then it gives a script like a relaxation script and a couple other things, and so I read it in high school and I hypnotized a couple people right as a junior high school, scared the shit out me, scared the crap out of me, because it worked. Right, right and. But you know I wasn't. The only thing I cared about in high school was drinking beer, playing football and running around. To be honest with you, it's why I went in the army after high school and.

Speaker 2: 14:37

But I did start making self-hypnosis tapes I can't even say cassettes, because this goes back a long time Even further so I was listening to it, so it was always in my mind. Then I did have an addiction. It runs in my family, my mom's side of the family, and I believe addictions is genetic part of it. And it cost me the military career where I was going to become a pilot and go to West Point, a couple other things, and then when I got out of the army I just decided to be an actor, something else I always wanted to do and I started doing that, was doing pretty well, and an addiction kind of sidetracked that.

Speaker 2: 15:10

So once I started to seek help, went through treatment, traditional treatment, therapy, 12 steps, all this and I always liked it, but I couldn't quit drinking. And then I was exposed to some of these NLP or hypnosis techniques, you know, and everything made sense. It's just like suddenly it was like, oh, this is what the 12 step program means and how it should work, this is what they're trying to do in therapy. And so then I my life started to change. I became a volunteer, became an alcohol and drug counselor and because I still had government money from the va. After my three years in the army I uh I went back to school and got my degree in uh masters in psych in my doctorate and I I've been following it ever since right and so but with addictions it's the same thing.

Speaker 2: 16:08

You know, I was always fascinated with. Why would like people come in and, you know, sound like psychologists if you get the same demographic, same age, same socioeconomic background, things like that. And you got like five people, let's say, five men between 35 and 40 um, pretty much the same background, yeah, and they go into, whether it's treatment or the 12th step, and three of them make it, two of them don't make it, and you go back. They're doing the same thing. They're going to their aa meetings or they're going to their therapy. Why do some people make it and other people don't? And it's like there's no rhyme or reason, you know, and it's like so what's going on different in the people that gets it, yeah, versus those that don't, and this is this translates into weight loss or personal development or anything. You know. Why do some do and some not? So that you know, and what it seems to do is help speed up making that transition in your head. Where you can, you know, uh, take it from thinking about it into acting upon it.

Speaker 1: 17:16

Okay all right, all right. You also have a background in martial arts black belt and karate correct? Yes, ma'am, yes, so how does that tie in with sort of the art of exploring mind-body healing modalities?

Speaker 2: 17:42

it's kind of cool. Um, you know, I again like a lot I took. I took karate in high school and then, of course, the military we there were some self-defense and I and some other stuff. But then as an adult I actually got back into it heavy because my daughter was little and wanted to take karate. So I started taking it right and basically only stopped a couple years ago when I tore my achilles tendon. Uh, and you know the eastern philosophy of you know, um, I think it's called zhan chen. Thought, no, thought, that's the ultimate thing of martial arts.

Speaker 2: 18:17

It's like you're not thinking, you're just there right and when you watch somebody that can really do it uh, a bruce lee and all you gotta do is youtube it and there's a bunch and it's like and the movements seem effortless and it's not. It's. It's not camera tricks. When you watch this stuff work in action, it's like you know, it's like these people. You learn how to calm your mind right and again it's.

Speaker 2: 18:45

You know the true art of shotokan karate my first or my second reiku kimpo would talk about. It's not about beating others, it's about beating yourself, it's about taking mastery of yourself, right, right. And you really run into these martial artists. Been doing it their whole life and they're deadly and they'll never use it, they'll just walk away, right, because true mercy is no one I could kill you, but it's like I'm just gonna get my car and drive away, right?

Speaker 2: 19:15

it's like so so yeah, and I've used the nlp and the hypnosis techniques, um in the martial arts world to keep me focused. And again, same thing. Why do some people here's an interesting aside why is it? I see this over and over again and I'll I'll tie it into another thing, but like I see people take karate three, four, five years, they're really into it and they can't wait. They get their black belt, they pass the test and, in the style I was in, usually that means their blood their knuckles are bloody into it. Right, they probably got a black eye or something and they get their black belt and then they quit, you know, and it's like right, what, what happened? Well, same thing. You see how many people are like three credits shy of getting their bachelor's degree or their master's degree or their doctorate?

Speaker 2: 20:05

They're this close. I just talk to somebody. All they got to do is go defend their dissertation, right, they'll get their doctorate, and it's like, what's stopping you? Well, I'm like actually, you know, most of the people sitting on those dissertation committees want you to succeed. They don't want to mess you up, right, but anyway. So again, it's that what motivates people. Versus that, and again that one, I think what begins to happen is the idea of once I put that black belt on, I'm supposed to be different and then you're really not. Yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 20:42

Or like once I got my doctorate in psychology and then I actually passed the boards and the all the tests I had to take to get my doctor. I'm a licensed clinical psychologist, Right, Right. Right and sometimes somehow you think it should be different.

Speaker 1: 20:56

Right. And it's kind of the difference between going through the motions of something versus doing the actual inner engineering of what it takes to make that transformation.

Speaker 2: 21:06

And, as our dear friend Tony Robbins would say, do you have a goal? After your goal, you get your black belt. What are you going to do with it? Are you going to keep studying? Or was that your goal? You got it. You're done right. I've seen people do it when they sabotage your business. My goal is to build a business. They build a business. I've done this by the way. And then it's like, but I didn't. What was your goal after you built your business? Right?

Speaker 2: 21:31

And of course in the business world they'd say well, you build your business to sell it, yeah, that's your goal. Well, no, they were built, I built it and then it just like it wasn't what I thought it would be. It's that never ending thing that people get into.

Speaker 1: 21:48

So right right, nice, um, all right. Well, we're gonna kind of dive into using um, nlp, uh, for the art of persuasion. So tell me little bit more. I know you've got a program coming up with this. How can we use neuro-linguistic programming to help persuade people to do what we want them to do? I?

Speaker 2: 22:13

always say you know? People say what is this really? I say well, it's the art and science of getting other people to do what you want and have them think it was their idea and they go. That's manipulation, everything's manipulation. We just went through an election cycle here in America, if that's not blatant manipulation on both sides, you know burning us like.

Speaker 2: 22:34

It's not very well done most of the time, but still, everything is communication and persuasion. If you're a parent, you're in business, if you're a therapist, you're always doing that right. But what I've really started to beat people up on and it took me a while to really begin to do this is it starts with self-persuasion, self-influence. Can you influence yourself to make the changes that you want right? And we see that a lot in the therapeutic community. I won't just pick on hypnotists here, but I'll pick on the whole therapeutic community. You'll go to a conference, whether it's hypnosis conference, nlp conference or a psych conference, and you walk around going okay, these are the people I'm supposed to take advice from, right?

Speaker 2: 23:22

Cause they can't and then they can't influence themselves. So what do you? You have to. All influence starts with self-influence, kind of like in the hypnosis world they say all hypnosis is self-hypnosis. Right, and it's true. All persuasion starts with yourself. Can you motivate yourself to do the things you don't want to do, whether it's exercise, diet, business, whatever it is right, yeah, so you have to begin to figure out what motivates you, because if you don't, even if you go, take the fanciest classes out there and persuasion and influence and you know any of them, you know up to the know the Tony Robbins mastery seminars, right, right, if you can't influence yourself, you're going to be an ineffective influencer or persuader to other people. Right, and I think it also starts if, deep inside you know it's like why can't I stop smoking, lose weight, do my exercise? Even though you learn these tricks and maybe you can help other people, it starts the idea of you feel like a, a fraud. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1: 24:27

Like the imposter syndrome.

Speaker 2: 24:29

Yeah, it's like and that's why you see people like self-destruct. You know they don't have that thing, so I'll persuade. So you know what motivates you to do certain things. Is it again? Is it a? Is it a picture in your head if you're working toward a goal? Is it a sound? Is it a feeling? Right? What really motivates you? You know not what. What you could go on. I just say google it, right, go on youtube. But what motivates you may bore me to tears right what's this music?

Speaker 2: 25:00

it's gonna motivate you? No, this music is gonna get me to want to rip the the the radio out of the car. It's not gonna motivate me, right, whatever it is. So, but maybe a picture will motivate you. You know, maybe it's a, you know it, it's a feeling, right? Um, and so that you know, first you have to pick some things if you're going to really master. This is what some areas in my life I need to persuade myself, right, and then it kind of opens up oh, this is what works. This is what doesn't work for me May not work for other people, but then it becomes more fun to figure out what will motivate you to do whatever it is.

Speaker 1: 25:44

Right, right, definitely so, once we've mastered um self-motivation, if we can get that far um you know, are we talking about um using NLP, uh, to persuade people, almost as a form of creating better communication yeah, it's.

Speaker 2: 26:02

Yeah, it's to get. Yeah, get people on the same wavelength to uh, help influence them to do the things that you, you think they should do. There's no other way for it. And people then it gets too philosophical. Well, do you? Really? I don't know if you're coming to me and and wanting me to give you four sessions to do something? You're paying me to influence you. That's the end of the story. Right, it's that's what you're doing, right? Right, you go to the doctor. It's what I, you know, but can, can you do that? You know, and I remember a couple of years ago I did a seminar at a doctor's office. It was about communication and it was really about getting people to complete the regimen, that they like, the drugs that they're going to give you a round of antibiotics. I think the research says most people never take the full 10 days.

Speaker 2: 26:54

And that's kind of what happened during this last I won't even say COVID, the last flu epidemic is people would get on a regimen, start getting better and go I feel better, I'm going to quit taking this, right. And then you get the rebound effect, Right. And so they wanted to know what can, what can motivate people to? To complete whatever it is the doctor is recommending yeah, and it was like it is the doctor is recommending yeah and it was like. Well, first of all, and most of them would use logic and I say logic sucks, logic doesn't take action right.

Speaker 2: 27:29

What really motivates you right? Yeah and and so then they started playing with it and we we did a little training and then came back in in a couple weeks I said what'd you guys find One of the nurses or physician? Whatever she was worked with, the doctor goes well if I knew that the person had kids relatively young kids I just look them in the eye and go well, you might want to complete taking all of these or you know, your kids might be raised by someone else.

Speaker 2: 28:02

Yeah, that might be motivating, yeah, yeah, it's like what do you mean? Well, this shit could kill you, as we, you know, and whatever it was, whether it's COVID or whatever it is you need to do this, right, yeah?

Speaker 2: 28:12

Or getting people to follow up on the test. I need you to go schedule a test and they go. Well, I told you this before you're not doing it. Well, you know, I just, you know, hope you're if it's a woman, you know, I hope your husband picks a good stepmom, you know or if it's a guy, you know, I hope your wife marries a guy that can, like, help raise your kids, right, right.

Speaker 2: 28:34

Right, it sounds kind of brutal, but it got people to take the action right. Right, they were using logic, the facts and the figures and this and that. Right, and all you have to do to believe this, or if you don't believe me, is just when you're watching television, because America, and I think New Zealand, is the only countries on the face of the earth that allows pharmaceutical advertisements. Right, it's like it scares the crap out of you when you're watching this. Right.

Speaker 2: 29:01

And then it goes through and then like then, now you'll be happy and dancing and that that right is. They're accessing different parts of your mind fear and then like, oh, I'll be happy now, right, yep, right and then the way they bury the old side effects. You know runny stools, you know heart attacks, death.

Speaker 1: 29:21

Right, right, the stuff they have to disclaim, yeah, wow Are in terms of, like, the art of persuasion, do we? You know, you just mentioned the pharmaceutical companies are government agencies and, like intelligence services using NLP, potentially for not good purposes.

Speaker 2: 29:44

why wouldn't that? Yeah, yeah, well, and you saw it during this, during the epidemic, the whatever it was pandemic, um, and what's kind of interesting, when you, when it started, right, you it broke into two camps, right, and it was like they were like diametrically opposed and it really did not follow whether you're a Democrat, republican, conservative or liberal Right right.

Speaker 2: 30:06

I think it based on this If you're an adult, when was the last time someone took total control of where you could go, what you could do, who you could talk to? It's when you were an adolescent, right. And if you were generally the good girl, the good boy, I always follow instructions. I'm going to trust the science. I'm not going to do this, right. And it's like those people fell over here. And if it was the other side, it's like screw you, I'm going to do what I want. You're not going to tell me, to tell me what to do, right. And so those clashed Right, and the government took the approach of Of that, right, I'm trying to get you to comply with it. And again, I think it first started. It was pretty good with the scare tactics, right, because fear gets you to take action, right. But then they dropped into logic, right. And then they were making some stupid statements. Yeah, I will never back off on trust the science, right. Right? Do you understand how science works?

Speaker 2: 31:18

science is about challenging everything right right you know exactly we still be sitting here realizing that the sun revolves around the earth. You know, right, but no, it's like challenge everything but you can't challenge this, right, right? So again, and I think what we saw is they put us in mass hypnosis with fear, right, and then it was a gradual process for a lot of people that started to bring them out right, and now they're worried. Oh my god, there's going to be these different variants and most people are going like yeah, even people I know that were like, really like, into like oh my god, I need to.

Speaker 2: 31:55

They're like no, I'm not getting another injection, I'm done you know, it's like right, so it's like, so it, and that was a hypnotic process.

Speaker 1: 32:03

That's in action and I I think, I had heard um, I think was it dr robert malone who used the term mass formation psychosis during that of just how, as a collective whole, people were under this trance, if you will oh, yeah, yeah well, and you know we do it during war.

Speaker 2: 32:24

If you just go back to world war ii, you know your enemy has to be subhuman, horrible animals right right. You can't think of the guy you got to shoot, that he's a. He's just a guy that's in the unit. He's got a wife and a kid at home. He's just trying to make it through. You can't. If you think that way, you're not. You're. You know it's like you may not pull the trigger right, so you have to. And again it's mass induction into what? What's going on? And again.

Speaker 2: 32:54

We act like this stuff doesn't go on. It's been going on for forever right.

Speaker 1: 32:59

Right, you know Right. And certainly the role of media. We could do a whole other episode just on the evolution of media and how that ties in with NLP and hypnosis for sure, but that'll be, that'll be another episode. But so, in terms of like, using NLP and persuasion, you know how. How do we use that to create better relationships with people?

Speaker 2: 33:30

Well, one is again a default to get in a good relationship with yourself, right, do some motivation and get you to take some action. And then, if I know how you think, if I know you make pictures, right, yeah, and then I need to use visual terms.

Speaker 1: 33:48

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Speaker 2: 35:41

I need to say this is what we'll see. This is what it'll look like. You know, when you follow this, this is how, this is what will be on the horizon, and you'll understand that, as opposed to if you were a feeling person. If I'm talking about, this is what you'll see. This is your brain is done.

Speaker 2: 35:58

It's not even tracking that information, but if you flip your communication to look uh, jen, this is what you'll feel and this is how good you'll feel when you, when you realize the people around you are feeling this way, right, and and then you know all you have to do is do this and the feelings will come. So you have to figure out what really motivates people. Is it what they see, what they hear, what they feel? Those are the primary three. It's a very simplistic term and, again, like a lot of things, people. Yeah, yeah, I know that. Well, I've been talking for 20 minutes. You're not doing it right. You know.

Speaker 2: 36:33

There's a reason to tie back to martial arts. Right, there's a reason. When you go to us. I used to go to these seminars in Reading Pennsylvania, reading Pennsylvania, and everybody there was black. Most of them were school owners or fighters. And yet every day, the Friday night, saturday morning, sunday morning, the first hour Was all basics how to do a front kick, how to do a back fist. It's like some of these people been doing this since they were this tall. Yeah, why are you working on the front kick? You know, same like professional sports. There's a reason why, like uh tom brady or or these elite at you know, when the season's over, they go back and practice throwing a football. For God's sakes, they're the best that's ever done it. Right.

Speaker 2: 37:25

They're like no, no, it's the little thing, it's the little things you forget to do. Yeah, Right, and I think it's true, for you know, in communications, because you're going to default to how you communicate. And I can bust myself. I will always bust myself. My wife is much more visual, I'm much more kinesthetic, and she's always yelling at me no, no, show me what you're talking about. Right, right, you know.

Speaker 1: 37:50

I need to see it.

Speaker 2: 37:52

I don't want to hear it and you know, and so I you know and it's like okay, note to self, you know, so you got to practice this stuff, right, right yourself, you know.

Speaker 1: 38:01

So you got to practice this stuff, right. Right is that part of it, too, is like learning what how the other person perceives things, whether they're visual or auditory or kinesthetic or whatever oh yeah, and it's a, it's a, it's a conscious effort, right, and you have to practice it.

Speaker 2: 38:16

And the other analogy I beat up. If you're ever getting on a plane and you're going to fly somewhere, if you glance, if they haven't locked the door yet, if you glance in the cockpit, what are the pilots doing? Right, right, the pilots are going down a checklist. They have 10,000 hours in the in the air in that plane, plane. Why aren't they going down a checklist? Because it's the shit you forget that will kill you. Right, right, it's like, and they double check each other and they don't get offended by it. You know, suddenly hypnotists and therapists are like oh, you know, they get offended if you point out something that they're not doing. It's like well, you know, I'd rather my pilot or co-pilot point out I forgot to you know, put the landing gear down before coming in for a landing.

Speaker 2: 39:08

You know it's like, but we all do that I'm guilty of it, everybody is. Right, right. And my wife certainly said that hundreds of times I'm always. Really, if you're going to hire me as your personal coach, it's always good right before I teach a class or right after I teach a class, Cause then I'm in like that mode of, like you know, running the checklist in my head and that cause it's easy to get lazy.

Speaker 1: 39:34

Right, right, definitely. Why does our frame of mind matter so much um for for health and living happy and connected lives with others?

Speaker 2: 39:47

well, you know it's. It all goes back to the part of your brain called your reticular activating system, right, and that's part of your brain that is constantly looking for something that would kill you. That that's its first job. Then it looks for food Right, and then it looks for a mate. Yeah, that's it. And people act like when I teach that there's higher things. No, at the sub level. If you're not protected from a predator, if you're not eating and you're not procreating, your gene pool's dead. Yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 40:19

So this is just running right now. We don't have the threats that we used to have lions, tigers, bears, warring tribes like we used to. So your brain has co-opted that to do other things and so it'll find what you tell is important. I always beat up the idea because I'm a guy. If you ever want a new car and you don't know what kind of car you want yet and then you decide I'm going to buy this, right, it's been about a year now. I bought a Jeep. What the hell did I buy? It's called a Jeep Renegade. It's a blue-green thing. They call it bikini blue. I think I bought it because I could tell people see, I look good in a bikini. But I liked the car. Suddenly I just said I think I want that car. Then I saw that car everywhere the day before. I wouldn't have noticed it. But the minute I told my brain this is important, find it for me Right, right.

Speaker 2: 41:15

Then my brain and goes and does it same with, like, whatever kind of person you find attractive, you know. Whether you're on the market or not, it's irrelevant. That's the person you will notice in a room. Right, just the way your brain works. The kind of food you like, your brain will find it right, great. Now if you want a better lifestyle, better, healthy thing, you know you need to train that part of your brain to look for reasons to stay healthy.

Speaker 2: 41:38

Right, look for reasons to exercise, not exercise uh-huh right and you know, and it could be as ludicrous as I remember when I was running my clinic and people go well, you know, I know I'm gonna gain some weight. I'm going on a cruise. Everybody knows you can't exercise on a cruise excuse me right they have gyms on these goddamn ships right right and and it's like they're looking for reasons not to right and so you know.

Speaker 2: 42:07

So you got to train your brain to look for what my birds, my cats, everybody's parking, uh, but you know the, the, the. You got to train your brain to find things like in health, vitality. And I would always say you need to surround yourself with a group of people that think the same way. Yes, right, yeah, right. And because that tribe mentality you know, they've known for years, if I know the five people you hang out with and I find out their net worth, you're within a parameter of those five people. Right and again, if you did the true statistic and you throw out, if there's one rich guy and one poor guy and take the middle, you're, you're probably in there.

Speaker 2: 42:49

So if you want to be rich, hang out with rich people. If you want to be in shape, hang out with in shape people, right, people that are finding a way to go to the gym, right, you know. And and again, that's what the whole addiction world's about people that don't like the 12-step program, I go. Yeah, heaven forbid. You hang out with a tribe, right, the people that are like-minded. Excuse me, aren't you going to mass? You know? They go, yeah, I go.

Speaker 2: 43:12

Well, there's, there's a mosque right there, you could. You could go to the muslim thing. No, no, we all want our tribe, so hang out with people like that. So if you want health vitality, you need to find the people that think that way. Who?

Speaker 1: 43:25

share the same values. Yeah, so can NLP. It kind of sounds like be a good tool for just even creating self-awareness. I think so many people are living very unconscious lives and not even paying attention to their behaviors and their motivations. Is this a tool to help them become more aware of that?

Speaker 2: 43:46

Oh yeah, it's it, it, it. It speeds up. You know the whole big thing. Now they're acting like it's new. This mindfulness thing, right, right. Be aware of what you're doing, right. Whether it's driving your car or eating your meal. If you're aware of it, it makes it more conscious, right. But your brain's built to do things subconsciously. It wants to make things habits where you don't have to think about it, right, right. I had this truck and the gear shift was one of these. It was right here on the dash. You click, click and okay, fine, I got used to it, right. And then I remember I drove that truck for a while, especially during the pandemic, when I wasn't going a lot of places. Then I went somewhere and rented a car and I'm sitting in the car and I couldn't get the car to move and I kept turning up the radio or turning up the heater or the air conditioner because I'm like I'm trying to find that knob and I'm like, oh wait, a minute, it was the old fashioned had the shifter down here.

Speaker 2: 44:53

Right, I was in subconscious mode, right, right, and I had, and I was getting angry, which makes it worse. Right, and what do the hypnotists call it? The law of reverse effect. The harder you try, the harder it becomes. So I had to take a deep breath, become aware, like, wait a minute, I'm not in my Ram 1500 rebel with the big wheels, I'm in this little rental car, right. Oh yeah, there's the shit.

Speaker 2: 45:18

There's the shifter, put it in drive, and I'm just driving along. I was one step away from going in there and embarrassing myself.

Speaker 1: 45:25

The car won't move, right, right, oh, my goodness. Yeah, you, you talk about.

Speaker 2: 45:38

These seven power words Are you allowed to tell us what they are? Or is that like a top secret? No, no, I'll give a few. Well, a lot of them are based in emotions, okay, you know, and they're not really power words. But like, first would be like visual, auditory kinesthetic If I need to know which is more impactful for you, so you could place it, like we said, in a visual frame and an auditory frame or a kinesthetic that's going to motivate it.

Speaker 2: 46:01

And if you, then the next power words are usually emotionally based, right, fear, uh, fear is a big one. We act like it's not. One of the most powerful words you can use is regret, right, especially if you're talking, I, I would say older adult, no, anybody, because it's the things you don't do you regret the most, right, right, whether it's like and I, I just saw the power of this talk to somebody, and they were young, you know, just getting out of high school. They said you know what I regret? I'm like what the hell you're 18, what the hell you got to regret yet you know you're not.

Speaker 2: 46:41

You're not in rehab or jail, so you know they go like you know, I really should have tried out for the football team, because now I'm looking back going. They were getting ready to graduate and they're like um.

Speaker 2: 46:54

I could I have made it right and they'll never know. So they have that regret, right? It's the things you don't do you regret the most. Now you think about the power of that if you're going to motivate somebody. You know, hey, I, I've got this class coming up right on, uh, secrets of subconscious communication, secret psychology of persuasion, right, uh, and I don't want you to regret that you don't learn this info now, right, because have you ever like skip something? Then learn it later. And your biggest thing is I should have learned this young, you know, when I was younger.

Speaker 2: 47:27

Yeah, Now, that's like a hypnotic phrase, because you're tapping into something that's a what they would call a universal experience, the feeling of regret, and tagging it to what I want you to do Take the class now, right, right. And tagging it to what I want you to do take the class now, right, right, and it's much more likely to get someone. And then again, if I know your visuals, you know I don't want you to look into the future and realize that, you see, today is the day you didn't do that activity that would have changed your life. Right, right, you know. And so then it like motivates people. So it's a visual, auditory, kinesthetic power, words that tap into emotions, yeah, you know. Fear, love, jealousy, you know, are you tired of being the only fat person in your group? And, yeah, and I, my wife was like, why do you talk like that? Because it works, right.

Speaker 1: 48:20

That's why.

Speaker 2: 48:21

I talk like that. You know right, you know vanity. If I could tap into your vanity. People talk about health. Health is a horrible reason to change by the way I say that all the time.

Speaker 1: 48:30

You know, I think you know we come up with all these. You know different ailments that are causing people to have cancer and heart disease and diabetes and what have you. But I think if people understood, like the origins of you, know why they can't lose weight, or you know why their sex drive is tanked, or or or why they're aging prematurely, like that seems to be much more motivating for people than like, oh, I might get cancer in 10 years because of my lifestyle habits.

Speaker 2: 49:04

Any doctor will tell you everybody's motivated. My friend, dr Dave, will say this when they're strapped to a gurney with an IV dripping in their arm and they're in a heart monitor off, they're going to change your life, brother. They're going to stop smoking, get quit eating crap and start exercise. Two weeks later change smoking cigarettes or eating a burger king thing and you know, it's just a, you know, but vanity will motivate people.

Speaker 2: 49:33

You know, hey, do you want to make all your friends jealous? Let me show you how to lose weight now. Right you? So you'll be the hot mom or the hot dad you know, Right, yeah, and I just did that.

Speaker 2: 49:46

Somebody were talking. I'm like man, maybe you're the, you know you're not. Well, they were talking to me and they go yeah, you stay in shape, I go. That's because I'm vain. I will admit it. I do not want a dad bod. I don't like dad bod. And if you fall into this crap thinking women think that's attractive, yeah, right, right. You know. You know there's a reason why. Like all the guys in I know it's bullshit, but all the guys in the world's sexiest men list, there are no dad bods in that list.

Speaker 1: 50:17

Ladies and gentlemen, I think chris evans made it this year.

Speaker 2: 50:20

He's yeah yeah, and always in the top 10 there's like, you know, uh, chris evans, the guy that plays thor, you know the rock, I mean you go down that list.

Speaker 1: 50:30

It's like there's no dad bods in that no, and I mean back to, like you know, understanding how our brains. There's a reason that we are pre-programmed to find healthy bodies attractive, and I'm not trying to be like mean or dismissive of people who maybe don't fall into certain categories of physique, but we're pretty wired to want to pass our genes on and, you know, share genetic information with somebody who would be healthy, and that usually means attractive to um and and fit and so forth.

Speaker 2: 51:16

Yeah, yeah, it's like there's a. There's a mathematical formula. It's hip. For men, the shoulder hip ratio it's a slight V. It's like there's a mathematical formula. It's hip. For men, the shoulder-hip ratio it's a slight V. It's not like the rock or like that. That's a little bit much. But subconsciously you're like this person will be a good hunter or protector, you know. And the same with men. No guy, no straight guy, I know, finds most of the supermodels attractive. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:42

They're like, yeah, no. And then when you see the actresses, like scarlett johansson, it's like they got a shape. They like you know, it's like, yeah, that would be. And like you say, this is not politically woke.

Speaker 1: 51:56

I guess we could say to say it's like yeah, that looks like someone that could carry the jeans on right and I think we've, you know, in the the realms of popular culture. We've, you know, and I'll just say I really do enjoy myself a good hunter. But in the realms of popular culture we've kind of gone from one extreme to another, you know, and I'm a I'm a big follower of Eastern philosophy and like Taoism and so forth, which really is just about gravitating to balance. Where we went from, you know, that early 90s twiggy, like overly thin woman who's probably not even menstruating anymore. She's so thin to now like the glorification of obesity, you know, rather than just seeking a, you know, a balanced, healthy body, which is really what I think is most attractive about either sex.

Speaker 2: 52:50

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And again, this operates at the subconscious level. It's genetic, it is in your DNA. We forget. You know we act like a lot of your stuff's not genetically pre-pro, just like the food industry.

Speaker 2: 53:04

If you want to get into that cool stuff yeah, right you know how to tap into the genetic predisposition to want salt sugar fat. Yeah, sugar fat, right, and they'll just load you up on it. And then why are we? Why is everybody obese? Go back and read salt sugar fat. Look at the studies that were and they're, and are they doing this on purpose.

Speaker 1: 53:28

Yes, it's cool. Yeah, oh, totally I. And I don't think most people realize they. You know, in the realm of food engineering they put sugar into things that aren't even sweet, where you don't even perceive it, just to tap into your addiction and at a at a brain level, so you want it more, so we create that addiction.

Speaker 2: 53:50

yeah, because you go back 300 years. You wanted high fat, high caloric food.

Speaker 2: 53:58

You know and healthy fats, and so we're getting yeah so you know you needed that to stay alive, right, right, yeah and uh, you know, because they said, like what is it like? On some of the slave ships coming over, they lost, like what was it? A third of the slaves on the trips. Right, they were just they would die, they'd throw them overboard. Not just because they weren't giving them the salt they needed, they were literally dehydrating and dying. You know, right, and like, wow, this stuff is in in us yeah, it's, it's programmed and, but it's not woke to talk about it right right

Speaker 1: 54:38

no um, yeah, but I think there's so much to be said about just understanding our biology and physiology and where we can tap into this mind, body stuff to understand it at a conscious awareness level so we can lead more happy, healthy, connected, vibrant, vital lives. But that requires a certain level of self-awareness that I think so many people in popular modern culture have just gone on autopilot and don't question how it's been suggested we live, which is part of why I think NLP is really good, a really good tool, and I'll just kind of share. So I took your, your beginner class and beginner certification class. So you, you both practice and help people you know doing therapeutic sessions, but you also teach um and certify others who want to learn to do what you do. Um.

Speaker 1: 55:39

And specifically since we're on the on the subject of food, one of our exercises what was? Myself and my partner had to pick something, some kind of food, that we didn't feel like was a good habit, and then walk each other through the NLP process of sort of deprogramming our mind from craving that food all the time. And I picked chocolate, although I think I was like too specific in the visualization that we went through for this, because I picked a very specific brand of chocolate and style and I have never I mean this was several years ago I've never touched it again. I still eat chocolate, but just not that brand.

Speaker 2: 56:21

Yeah, so it did work, but immediately too, like I had been eating it a lot and I I never touched it again yeah, I do that at those things and and I and I, I tell people like I like to teach that right before lunch, especially somebody I'm gonna give up fries. They say, try to eat a fry, and they come back oh, I couldn't eat it. Yeah, I'm like that's how your brain. Now you could flip your brain back, it's still your brain. It's like the old. I always look for natural phenomenon. They always say if you want to give up the food, work where they make it.

Speaker 2: 57:01

You will never eat it again when I went in the army, I was the only guy in the army for two years that wouldn't eat pizza, because I worked in a pizza place. Yeah, we'd pick them up off the floor as long as they didn't fall flat down. I mean, it's like it was not you know statute of limitations long over. But it's like, you know, it's like so, yeah, that's an over thing, but you could, you know so yeah, these NLP techniques, and again they, they're not logical.

Speaker 2: 57:35

When you went through that food one, I wasn't talking about it's bad for you or this, that, no, it's just like where's one, where's this moving around? Do this, You're done, yeah.

Speaker 1: 57:42

Right, right, absolutely. Well, this has all been great. Is there anything that we have not touched on, either in NLP or anything else having to do with mind-body healing? And just you know, maybe, even maybe, you could touch on a little bit the use of NLP in business practices, because I think we've focused more on personal development and self-improvement, but this is also an excellent tool for business, correct?

Speaker 2: 58:14

Oh yeah, well, it's all communication. You know, putting your ad in the. I just, you know, I forgot. I just saw this and I'm going to. I'm going to use this right, which is, let's say, you're in business and you've got, you know, a big thing in business, what's your ideal client, right? What's your demographic for your, you know, females between 25 and 50 that want to lose weight.

Speaker 2: 58:36

That, right, if that's your demographic, great. Don't let you're not that. Don't let people that's not in your demographic influence how you market. Don't let a guy say, well, that's not right, no, right, it's like you get distracted, right, and so it's like you got to break it down. So in business and again, it's all about communication you need to learn influence and persuasion If you're going to get people to buy your products or sign up for your services or this, that and the other thing, right, and usually this whole myth about, well, if you build a better mousetrap, they'll be the path to your door no, they won't yeah you know, they got to find you right and then they got to want it and again it's.

Speaker 2: 59:26

So the best communicator will have a better business than, let's say, therapy. You could be the world's best therapist, but if you're not good at reaching out and connecting with people and selling your products and there's a mediocre therapist that really good at that, this person over here will outperform this person 50 to 1 right. Right, because again, they don't. You know it's like it's. Can you communicate your message exactly? You know, at the level that the people that that want it right absolutely.

Speaker 1: 1:00:03

Um, yeah, this is. This has been great. Is there anything else that I have not asked you that I think that you think would be important for our listeners to know about?

Speaker 2: 1:00:11

And you know, since a lot of this is you're in the mind, body world, is always remember that underneath it, we're responsible for our health. Yes, not the government, not your doctor not the medical system right, you're responsible, so you know, and it starts with how you think about what. You're responsible, so you know, and it starts with how you think about what you're doing. You know, and the and, again it's the, it's that taking charge of it.

Speaker 2: 1:00:39

Right, and and just you know uh not letting the I always say not letting the bastards get you down. It's like you know. I'm responsible for my, for my health. You know and take charge of that and become your own doctor. Yeah, yeah, really good doctor, never bothered. You know shouldn't be upset if you challenge them, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:01:03

No, and I will say, you know, I think sometimes maybe people think I'm a little too critical of doctors, but my favorite people in the whole world are doctors who have tremendous curiosity and are open to receiving new information, and certainly the way our healthcare system or sick care system has been structured doesn't allow them to explore that curiosity very much.

Speaker 1: 1:01:29

So I think sometimes it's more inquisitive patients who come in who challenge them in that way that um keeps them sharper, um, so I think the really good ones understand that um and appreciate that uh, certainly to a certain level.

Speaker 1: 1:01:43

Um, and you had mentioned earlier, uh, you kind of touched on, you know, kind of this adolescent state that we all went through with the COVID situation. And I'll kind of get into a little bit of cognitive behavioral therapy stuff. I remember talking to a therapist who talked about ego states and there being a parent ego state, a child ego state, an adult ego state. And you know, as adults we want to have other adult relationships with adults and I think so much of what our medical system and even the government and to some extent educational institutions and and business as well, have created, this parent child relationship that is not working for anybody who wants to be an adult. So I think you know, in the realm of self-ownership and being proactive, being the architect of your own health, having an adult relationship with yourself and insisting on that being the case with other people, rather than allowing yourself to be parented by the government or the medical system, is imperative, and NLP can probably be a tool for that as well.

Speaker 2: 1:02:59

Oh yeah, I'm in the VA system, so that's its own world. Okay, my primary care. It took us a while, right, and uh, because she wanted me to take something, I said I'm not taking that. Yeah, right, and she's like trying. I'm like um, and I had my phone, I'm just wait a second. There's the research that says that a it's ineffective and b it does liver damage, right, you know. And then also, when you said my cholesterol is high at two, 19,. What's your parameter? Where did they get the number?

Speaker 1: 1:03:35

And a certain thing is bad, and I don't think most people don't know they changed the parameters when they came out with statins so that they could require more people to go on statins.

Speaker 2: 1:03:48

Yeah, and I said you know, the original thing was, you know, when they take the control group, it's every man between the ages of 18 and six, and 70 or 75 or 85. I'm like, yeah, what show me the and Europe did it the parameters of athlete men, that are, athletes between 25 and 40 and guess what their cholesterol is between 200 and 250. It's just and she's like, finally, she's like yeah so, but it's like you know I'm gonna.

Speaker 2: 1:04:22

I and we did have a nice little conversation. I said I expect to be treated with respect, exactly you know. And she goes oh, yeah, yeah and the va has changed in the last year. Oh yeah, yeah, have a nice little conversation. I said I expect to be treated with respect. Exactly, you know. And she goes. Oh yeah, yeah, and the VA has changed in the last year. Oh yeah, yeah, fine, you know, you did your part. You know, let us help you. I'm like, well, you know, right, so right. And again I said it's my body.

Speaker 2: 1:04:41

I'm don't even prescribe it, cause I'm not going to fill this thing Right, even though you paid for it right paid for it, you know right, yeah, yeah, no, it's.

Speaker 1: 1:04:50

I think it's so much about creating healthy relationships, uh, you know, and whatever we can do to foster that adult interaction. So, yeah, well, awesome. This has been a great conversation. I think that our listeners will probably get a lot out of it. You're online and people can find out more about what you do on a therapeutic level as well, as if they wanted to learn how to become certified in NLP themselves. Where can they find you online to get more information?

Speaker 2: 1:05:26

The easiest is two websites. One is nfn. L Pcom. That's like the for the organizations and trainings and and ways to get in touch with me and also Dr Will HortonD R W I L L H O R T O Ncom, usually one of those two.

Speaker 1: 1:05:45

I'm re rebranding the one site, the will horton site, okay yeah, so I, yeah, I teach this stuff awesome, and you're a prolific writer too. So I think if people go to over to amazon, um, they can probably find quite a few of your titles there yeah, yeah, my favorite lately is I'm pushing.

Speaker 2: 1:06:04

It's called um habits for success. Okay, why? Why, uh, children of royalty and the wealthy are more successful than those that aren't, and it's it's the habits and the beliefs they build in right expect success. Certain things are going to happen and you know, as opposed to those of us from a blue collar background that have to kind of break through certain levels- Right, right, interesting, interesting, awesome.

Speaker 1: 1:06:35

Well, thank you so much for joining us, dr Will, and I will definitely include those links in the show notes so people can just click directly over there. But it was a pleasure talking with you, as always there. But it was a pleasure talking with you, as always. Namaste.

Speaker 1: 1:06:52

No problem, have a good one. Thanks so much. Thank you. So the Body Literacy Podcast has been on hiatus for a short time here, but we have a lot of great episodes coming through the pipeline right now that I'm really excited to share with everyone. We've got Holistic Hilda coming up, who is part of the Weston Price Foundation and she has done a lot of world travels that she's going to share with us and how that reflects on health and wellness. And we've got Brendan Murata coming on, who is going to talk about children's justice his new book. Tony Nagy is joining me. We're going to talk about laughter as medicine and medical violence, so that should be interesting. She's a really fun comedian and performance artist. And we've got Dr Keisha Ewers, who's going to come on and talk about trauma and autoimmune disease, as well as Katie Falk, who's going to go over energy medicine practice called Jin Shin Jitsu, which should be very interesting. Dr Kelly Blodgett is actually joining us for not one but two episodes because we went so long to talk about holistic dentistry and how important that is in creating overall health, and also Dr Will Horton, who's going to be on to talk about neuro-linguistic programming.

Speaker 1: 1:08:28

So we look forward to having you subscribe over at Spotify or Apple iTunes, as well as any other major podcasting platform. Just look for the Body Literacy Podcast with Jen Mayo, and we've got a lot of things coming up that I hope you will enjoy and join us for so we will see you soon. This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only. Any statements and views expressed by myself or my guests are not medical advice. The opinions of guests are their own and the Body Literacy Podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. If you have a medical problem, please consult a qualified and competent medical professional. As always, I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Body Literacy Podcast. Be sure to subscribe and sign up for updates over at genmayocom.