Peep Show v Phoenix Nights
We tackle the titanic clash between "Peep Show" and "Phoenix Nights" in our Sitcom World Cup semi-finals. We're serving up a platter of sharp-witted analysis, with a side of hearty laughs, as we dissect the highs and lows of these comedic juggernauts. From Johnson's inimitable swagger to the side-splitting genius of Super Hans, we leave no gag unturned and no punchline unexamined.
Ever wonder how a sitcom keeps its spark after nine series? We've got that covered, as we draw back the curtain on "Peep Show's" evolving writers' room and how fresh blood like Simon Blackwell kept the series on its toes. Meanwhile, "Phoenix Nights" gets its due as we applaud the evolution of its characters, with a tip of the hat to the natural comic delivery of Peter Kay and Dave Spikey. It's a masterclass in sitcom anatomy, from the craft of scripting to the magic that happens when a line is perfectly delivered.
Whether you're Team Peep or Team Phoenix, your comments are the lifeblood of our competition, so hit us up on Twitter or email. As we head into the ring for the decisive bouts, make sure you've got your headphones at the ready—this is one matchup you won't want to miss.
Peep Show v Phoenix Nights
We tackle the titanic clash between "Peep Show" and "Phoenix Nights" in our Sitcom World Cup semi-finals. We're serving up a platter of sharp-witted analysis, with a side of hearty laughs, as we dissect the highs and lows of these comedic juggernauts. From Johnson's inimitable swagger to the side-splitting genius of Super Hans, we leave no gag unturned and no punchline unexamined.
Ever wonder how a sitcom keeps its spark after nine series? We've got that covered, as we draw back the curtain on "Peep Show's" evolving writers' room and how fresh blood like Simon Blackwell kept the series on its toes. Meanwhile, "Phoenix Nights" gets its due as we applaud the evolution of its characters, with a tip of the hat to the natural comic delivery of Peter Kay and Dave Spikey. It's a masterclass in sitcom anatomy, from the craft of scripting to the magic that happens when a line is perfectly delivered.
Whether you're Team Peep or Team Phoenix, your comments are the lifeblood of our competition, so hit us up on Twitter or email. As we head into the ring for the decisive bouts, make sure you've got your headphones at the ready—this is one matchup you won't want to miss.
Living with.
Speaker 2:Maidly Living with Maidly. Living with Maidly. Maidly Living with Maidly.
Speaker 3:Hello and welcome to Living with Maidly. We are in the latter end of our sitcom World Cup Best UK sitcom of the last 30 years. My name's Andreas, as usual, and I am joined by I can't think of a funny name Liam. What do you want to call yourself, lovachenko? Lovachenko, lovejoy Would have been a good one, but yeah, semi-finals, mate, we're nearly there.
Speaker 3:I know the Major said he's's, he's gone, he's ran longer than any world cup tournament ever, uh, and he's right. And he's right by saying that, uh, we're at the semi-finals. Now, though, um, and today we've got peep show versus phoenix knights just before we get into. So, like today, we're going to do three things that we love about the show, that we've not really talked about too much, and then three things that we're not quite sure about. I won't say I don't know about yours, liam, but I won't say the like things that we hate about it, but things that we think, well, there's only one of mine that I is a kind of strong, strongly dislike.
Speaker 4:I don't know if I'd go to sort of as far as hate, but yeah, I think the most part, the most part. We've tried to be positive all the way through. We're not trying to sway any votes, but at this point we're just going to A few things people have said to us, a couple of messages we've had and some of our own thoughts of if you were going to pick faults, what would they be?
Speaker 3:Well, I think we're at the stage now where I think the final four Peep Show Phoenix Knights, the Office and on the Partridge, I'd be happy with any of them to win. So if people are undecided because I'm really undecided, to be honest with both of them I'd like to hear reasons why actually, maybe that's the reason not to vote for it.
Speaker 4:So that's what we're trying to do today. I think all the way through we've tried not to influence the votes. We're not on this because we're saying there's some good things, there's some bad things. But yeah, this this is just the first time really where if we've got any gripes, we're going to bring them to light, we're going to put them out there and see whether that affects the voting yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So, um, in the first quarter peep show got through, beat the thick of it 66.1 percent to 33.9 percent, so that would. I thought that would be a lot closer, to be fair. But Pete Shaw has pretty much dominated, that, hasn't he?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's took charge. I don't think there's any shocks in any of the matches if. I'm really honest.
Speaker 3:Well, the big one was the next one, which were Phoenix Knights versus Father Ted. We'll go through all the quotes after the winner's been decided and we go through all the quotes and stuff. But, yeah, a lot of people aren't happy. But Phoenix Knights 58%, father Ted 42%. That's the closest one out of a lot of them. And Phoenix Knights got through and again.
Speaker 4:Just to confirm there, for the majors' benefit, next year we will do the final and then the year after that we're doing the year after match analysis, aren't we? They have to. Yeah, that'll be 2026,. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. By the time we finish that, yeah, we'll get the afternoon.
Speaker 4:No, we are going to try and get through these next few fairly quickly. So, yeah, yeah, point taken. Yeah, I think shall we. Shall we move into today's? We're going to give you the good and bad about Peep Show, and then we're going to give you the good and bad about Phoenix Knights.
Speaker 3:That's how we're going to do it. That's right.
Speaker 4:So we start with Peep Show for and this is almost kind of giving us one of the negatives for the next one but they both work. So this is what it is. It's the longevity, it's how long they kept being funny. So I've looked into how many they did. They didn't do any specials or anything like that Pe show.
Speaker 4:They always just did nine series with six episodes. The average running time seems to be about 25 minutes, somewhere a little bit over that. Some go up to 26, but even if we round it down to 25 minutes that's 1350 minutes of comedy, which is 22 and a half hours, I mean yeah you can't.
Speaker 4:We were reluctant early on to kind of give out our criteria of what we judge a sitcom on, because you could. We didn't want to sway it, we didn't want to kind of give our personal preference, because you cannot eat each to your own. It's up to you guys. You know, welcome our own decisions. But but yeah, to me you have to credit something that's managed to be funny for that length of time. I mean, where do you stand? Do you think it is a real kind of? Is it a real kind of stamp of? Not necessarily quality.
Speaker 3:I think you can have short-term quality, but it's stamp of kind of good writers who can keep the characters being funny for that long yeah, and we'll get on to the bad points, obviously, but the good point to this is I never I don't think it ever jumped the shark. I think it teetered on the edge of jumping the shark, but I think every single series is worth a watch. This, my favorite episode, might be series five, which is probably past its glory, which is the the gunny episode, which is probably past its peak, like I think series two to four are the peak peep show, but it still carried on being funny. It wasn't like you think, come on, we need to knock this on head now. I mean, there's loads of comedies like that, isn't there?
Speaker 4:yeah, I mean, if you want an example like and I mean obviously these really did push it too far but if you're the kids my kids have started getting into simpsons so within the last six months and I can go back with them and watch the first couple of series a little bit hard work. But then you kind of get sort of 14, 15, 16, 16, even 17 series that are brilliant. But then there's a point where when I see him watching some of the really modern stuff, the voices aren't right, the jokes don't land anymore and it's just like, oh no, and Peep Show never. You can skip to the last series of Peep Show now and watch an episode and it would be funny. It doesn't matter, as long as you know the basics of the show, you would laugh. It's not like simpsons now, where it's kind of like oh my god, none of these jokes are hitting.
Speaker 3:It's very funny I think even fools and horses, which is, I don't know, it's not the longest running british sitcom, obviously that's last of the summer line, um, but fools and horses, even they like and that's like renowned as like being like the big classic british sitcom once they'd won the lottery. And then they kept going back, everyone like realistically were thinking, oh, come on, dell boy put down the flat cap move on you've been a bloody millionaire.
Speaker 4:Now move on, mate but yeah I would see that's a bit of a blurred lines up because I think once they'd won the money it wasn't ever as good, but they're still still funny. The later ones are still funny and I think I don't think they're anywhere near as good.
Speaker 3:No, they're not. There's a drop-off.
Speaker 4:There's a massive drop-off in level and I think, yeah, that's a good point actually. So it's not that Peep Show manages to still be funny, but it's not quite there. It's pretty In terms of laughs per episode. I don't think it drops off.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I'll tell you what. We'll go straight to the bad point then, one of the negatives that we picked out, which is it went from a realistic sitcom to far more slapstick and I think it became more sitcom-y. I think it were a realistic sitcom and then we started getting. I mean, to be fair, it started in season four when Jez ate a dog. I mean that was really funny, that episode, but that were really out there in comparison to what we'd seen before. There were some odd moments, but not everything you could have imagined. But if I said to you one of my mates has ate a dog just to like cover it because he killed it, that's unrealistic, isn't it? I'd say, was it Russ? That's unrealistic, isn't it? I'd say, was it Russ? Well, I'm going to say yeah, if it wasn't.
Speaker 4:Russ, I'd be absolutely stunned. But yeah, I take your point and I think we said, didn't we, that just the episode we covered was the last episode of Series 3, am I right in saying, yeah, series 4.
Speaker 3:All right. So actually I think the last couple of episodes of Series 4, even the Wedding to a degree, was a bit more teeter on the brink of reality than the rest of it. I thought the rest of it like Series 1 to 4, were really based in reality and then it sort of, like I said, I don't think it ever jumped the shark, but it did go to more mad extremes, which you probably have to do if you're writing a sitcom for this amount of time. I know our listeners are educated people.
Speaker 4:They're obviously connoisseurs of fine listening. But do you think we need to explain Jumping the Shark or do you think that's a common parlance, Jumping the?
Speaker 3:Shark. I love this. Jumping the Shark is literally based Jumping over a shark. Yeah, it's based on when a sitcom um just becomes too ridiculous. And it's based on happy days, where fonz the fonz literally jumped over a shark and everyone said that's when happy days lost it. I don't think we got this with peep show no, I agree absolutely.
Speaker 3:but we did get things such as mark got rid of a flatmate by bagging him up in a sleeping bag and dragging him out of his apartment. I don't think you'd have got that in the first four series. Dobby ran away from Mark and Jez because they're pushing each other into an electric fence Again a bit too sitcom-y for me, a bit too slapstick. Jez became Big Mad Andy's life coach and then beat him up as part of his therapy, which, again, I don't think you get it in the first four series each other section, which I mean.
Speaker 4:Possibly you'd get that in the first few series, but it did. It just became more extreme and super hands ran to windsor by accident.
Speaker 3:I don't think you'd have got that as mad as super hands is as a character.
Speaker 4:I don't think you'd have got that in the first couple of series I think that is a symptom of, and the first, the positive and a negative are kind of entwined there, because I think part of making this successful for so long is to keep refreshing it, to keep coming up with new ideas. And I can see how that becomes more challenging. Just with two people, one doesn't want to work, one's got a boring job. You've kind of got to bring more into it. So I understand it. But yeah, I agree, because for me personally, well, well, you know, I I watched and loved the first, certainly three, I think, series four, yeah, I dipped in and out after that I just found yeah I mean, like you say, there's some great lines post series four, um, but it's a different sitcom, I think once the mark and sophie storyline ended they didn't really have a proper narrative.
Speaker 3:that was the basis of the show and each series had storylines running through it, but there was nothing you could get properly invested in the way you could be Mark and Soph. Like I say, some great episodes and I said the Gunny episode might be my favourite ever and that's series 5. But as a whole it became a different show and I thought it became a bit rushed as well, like Jez became bisexual, which is totally believable if you look at Jez's history, but it seemed to be covered in 10 minutes Like oh, by the way, he's got a boyfriend now. Oh, that's quite a big thing we haven't seen for the previous eight series.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like it was quite a massive thing that just sort of I don't know. It felt like a bit of a ham-fisted way of doing it. We're almost like they're running out of storyline. Jess falling in love with Dobby over the space of I think it was three episodes might have been more three or four episodes that seemed rushed to me, like Mark's, like one love at this point with Dobby and he was willing to give up his friendship over this girl or this woman that he only really got into over the space of three episodes where when Sophie and Mark got to, that were a full series thing, that were a fully fleshed out thing, and then everything else just seemed rushed to me.
Speaker 4:Well, something I want to ask you and I know you're not the peep show expert, but I couldn't find out the answer in time in my extensive research. But I remember this has been written by Jesse Armstrong and Sam Bain, but actually the writing credits on Wikipedia are Jesse Armstrong, sam Bain. But actually the writing credits on Wikipedia are Jesse Armstrong, sam Bain, simon Blackwell, tom Basden and John Brown Did. Did they come in after series four or is that? Did they just in and out, or were they there all along? But what? Was there additional writers that sparked this change? Do you know?
Speaker 3:So I think after series, like four they they were. I think they were always like sort of involved, certain different. Like four they there were. I think they were always like sort of involved, certain different, you know, especially in certain directors and stuff like that. And um, I'm just looking down now, in fact I'll get the full, the full thingy from that. They're all jesse armstrong, research, jesse armstrong, sam bain. Yeah, by series five actually, you're right. Yeah, there's one. Actually simon blackwell wrote one which they were not involved in at all. Simon blackwell again. Yeah, there were other episodes. I mean they were mostly written by Jesse Armstrong and Sam Bean, but they were other episodes that weren't written by them.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, that's interesting. So obviously they're freshening up the writing and that's obviously shown in the episode. And again, this is that idiotic Eureka moment that I've mentioned before, where you think you've learned something that everyone else knows. Frank Skinner's coined the phrase, but Jesse Armstrong obviously went on to write Succession after this. So, if you didn't know that, I'm sure you're stunned. If you're 99% of the population, you'll just be saying, yeah, we knew that, get on with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:But, like I say, we are scraping the barrel here because we've got four amazing comedies and the reason we're trying to pick out bad points is just to make it a little bit different. You know, add a little bit more to where you might vote. I suppose, like things like oh yeah, I've not really thought about that, oh yeah, they're right about that or they're wrong about that. But another good point of Peep Show is the character Johnson. I think you'll agree with that, liam.
Speaker 4:Yeah, iconic. I wonder, actually do you have to have watched Peep Show to have seen Johnson, Because I've seen him pop up in various? Surely people have seen Johnson pop up in memes and gifs and stuff. Who is this guy? And I looked into it Because he's such a cool customer, isn't he? And his delivery of dialogue is absolutely fantastic.
Speaker 3:Brilliant Patterson Joseph, the actor, absolutely fantastic. Brilliant Patterson Joseph, the actor, absolutely fantastic.
Speaker 4:You could drop that character into lots of different sitcoms, wouldn't you? And almost the context doesn't matter, just the way he delivers.
Speaker 3:The dialogue is so funny so Johnson Alan Johnson Johnson.
Speaker 4:Not a big joke, but the way how Mark says it Johnson, Johnson is brilliant. How?
Speaker 3:Mark says it. Johnson Johnson Johnson is here. He's a CD alone manager at JLB and Mark's boss for most of the series, actually most of the nine series. Basically he's cool as fuck, certainly for the first few series.
Speaker 4:This is not branch manager, this is not director, this is not chairman, this is. Cd alone there's a brilliant bit. That's so cool, isn't?
Speaker 3:it. I think it's the first episode he's in and he says something like are you a worthless punk? And he's going what? And he goes. That's what I'd say. He goes, oh my God, he's good. It's just not there really. It's brilliant. Like you said we've said it before Mark's that in awe of him, his sexuality, because he finds him that kind of alluring, that that impressive, as a man, mark ends watching him, ends up watching gay porn. Well, I think, if that's me doing the spreadsheets, johnson's coming in.
Speaker 3:Yeah no no, I can't watch it. Like turns it off. It's so good. Series six he goes off the rails a little bit because he has a bit of a fall from power, because jlb goes under, um, and he does some really mad things on that like. So he gets really mad because he's going out with Big Suze at the time and Big Suze won't eat a Johnson Orange. Because he's got an orange and he's wrote his name on it Johnson Orange absolutely amazing. But by the time the series closes sorry, the show closes he's back to being as ruthless as ever and he ends as he started this. No nonsense, business man. I want to play a couple of steps. Oh sorry, have you got you?
Speaker 4:carry on first no, no, no, I was just going to say, yeah, he's one of those kind of, I'd say, background characters, because he's probably not in it much but kind of steals every scene that he's in and I think, yes, they're the great characters, because there's loads of side characters who they're almost just fillers of time. But actually, despite him being a side character, he's the main event in some scenes and I think that's that's quite a feat to have a character like that.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And one of my favorite clips is when he tries to buy big, big, big suits. Is going out with a jazz and here's Johnson trying to buy big suits off jazz.
Speaker 5:That's a great piece of real estate. You're there, big Suze off jazz. That's a great piece of real estate. You're there, a mighty fine piece of ass. What Big Suze In business, jeremy, you learn that every man has his price, and I charge yours to be 530 pounds. What I'm not going to beat around the bush, jeremy, I want to make you a real-life indecent proposal. An indecent proposal. I want to sleep with your girlfriend, jeremy, but I don't like playing the game with women. I don't like listening to them. I don't like talking to them, but I do like some of the things they do.
Speaker 2:So £530 to sleep with big sues.
Speaker 5:That's my indecent proposal. It certainly is an indecent proposal. You have a property of which we should make a use. Is that so very different from hiring a solicitor or leasing out a Spanish villa? Well, it is a bit different, because you'd be putting your dick right. What's your answer, Jeremy? Maybe you could finger her for 300? I'm not going to bargain with you, Jeremy.
Speaker 2:He obviously thinks I'm some sort of skag-addict bedroom DJ who can be bought off. But no one's going to give me a medal for saying no.
Speaker 4:I am pretty broken. Okay, it's a deal. Is the clip called something like Real Life, Indecent Proposal? Yeah?
Speaker 3:that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Brilliant. I love that. He's so cool in it.
Speaker 4:His first time he's ever met James, I mean actually that's kind of quite an unpleasant thing he's doing, but he pulls it off quite suave, doesn't he? He comes across quite cool.
Speaker 3:Well, another horrible thing he does here, my other club that I want to play.
Speaker 4:He's not selling him in a good light here.
Speaker 3:No, he's not. He's not a good character, he's not a nice character, but this is where he tries to tell Mark that he can do better than himself.
Speaker 5:Good hard. Look at her. What do you see? What do you actually see in her? Compared a supermodel like Giselle or any of the other supermodels she's, I think she's very pretty. Come on, look at her arse. Is that the best arse you're ever going to get? Do you stick on that arse? Come on, admit it, she's got a fat arse. Say it.
Speaker 1:Well, she's, maybe.
Speaker 5:It is a bit nice, but in a sense, Look, if we're going to do this, it's just you and me.
Speaker 4:Yeah, again, I'm sort of, yeah, we're singing his praises as a character. He's not always the kind of greatest man in the world, is he, but he's an incredibly funny chap.
Speaker 3:Well, I'll tell you what we're going for, the most controversial one next, which is yours, and I'll argue against this, giving you one of your negatives for Pete, shall we?
Speaker 4:Super Hans.
Speaker 3:This guy is more loved than Jez and Mark maybe.
Speaker 4:I think this is one of the least cool men in the world. This is just a twat who wanders around and I've kind of got a few examples. He's just a horrible man and I've kind of got a few examples. He's just a horrible man and I've kind of met not quite as exaggerated characters as Sue Barnes, but I've met people who sort of I don't know. I think it's people who've not got much personality. So I hold people like this in high regard. Oh, he's coming, look, have you seen who's coming? And I think he's just a bellend. It's just all right. Yeah, he's got some personality, but it's not a very good one and I've got some examples.
Speaker 4:But I mean, yeah, it's a bit crude this. Apologies to the listener, um, but I could almost drop the mic and walk away. Here they get sophie's teenage cousin barney starts hanging around him it was 15 years old and he's quite in awe of of them and super hands makes him. That doesn't make him, but persuades him to suck him off, like, and there's a horrible scene where he comes out of the sort of club going get me home, get me home, get me home. And it's like this is supposed to be a comedy.
Speaker 3:That is this man should be locked up like there's a bit where you're on about with Sophie's cousin, where he goes. Your super hands tried to suck me off. No, sorry, jess says to super hands. Did you try and suck him off? He goes. No, then he isn't totally going. Yes, like sobbing.
Speaker 4:You know I get it, I get. You know we've talked about really dark humour.
Speaker 3:We've all enjoyed the memories. We've done Brass Eye. We've talked about really dark humour.
Speaker 4:We've all enjoyed the memories We've done. Brass Eye, we both used to watch sort of jam and that was quite extreme in moments. I get it, but this is supposed to be a kind of real-life thing and this is. You know, I don't know what he offers to any situation. He basically bullies Jeremy throughout the whole thing. He's forever sort of trying to get with Jeremy's girlfriends. There's a joke.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, repeatedly. There's a. There's a joke in the one that we sort of clips played in the, the wedding episode, where you know it's the. The joke is basically tried to sexually assault Nancy and they kind of go super hands. Yeah, it's like there's a, there's an episode where, again, I've not done extensive research, but Jeremy, I think, is he living with Molly or going out with a character called Molly?
Speaker 4:And he kind of grasses him up about doing coke and ends up being Jeremy homeless, effectively. Yeah, and he's quite sort of smug behind him and I think I'm not saying he doesn't have funny moments. I get that there's mug behind him and I think I'm not saying he doesn't have funny moments.
Speaker 3:I get there's another scene as well. So it's just like back of his cuntness, is that? Um, when they're in a band and like this manager, like band manager, says like we need to get jeremy out of the band, so he just gets rid of him immediately and he goes uh, he's what, what you're gonna do is well, because you're gonna leave the band as well. He goes nearly did make, nearly bloody did, like's not he doesn't give a shit. Do you know what I mean? He's not like a good friend.
Speaker 4:He's the most selfish, horrific character and I think like I've got a keen eye for people like this. I think I often end up getting into sort of rows with people like this, like there's many a time you've seen've kind of called him out for being a dickhead all night. I just think I wouldn't last one night with him without. I'd fall out with him within one night definitely. I just don't like him. He's well-written because Well, he's not actually because I don't get why everyone loves him. Maybe I'm the problem.
Speaker 3:Well, usually, usually, yeah, can I play a couple of clips to say why he's funny?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm not saying he's not funny, I'm just saying Peter Sutcliffe might have been a great laugh, but it was.
Speaker 3:Peter Sutcliffe Right Might have been, who knows? Imagine that that's off a brass eye, isn't it? When he goes, he doesn't suck like. That's specifically, Peter.
Speaker 4:Sutcliffe was a great laugh no, sutcliffe, sutcliffe the musical.
Speaker 3:I really am truly very sorry. Anyway, couple of my favourite super hands scenes here. This is where they're on about naming a pub at him and Jezebel, really not happy with the name Free the Pedos.
Speaker 2:I mean, can't we call it something more normal, like the Swan and Tomato? Yeah, or compromise the swan and pedo yeah, yeah, that's an idiot.
Speaker 3:And even he knows you can't call the pub.
Speaker 4:Free the pedos but I get that. This kind of drug addled idiot, I get that and I get that that and it's like he is funny and he can be funny. I just think it's just a predator in the midst. It's like there's a fox in the hen house and all the hens are laughing at him. But who's next?
Speaker 3:All these hens saying why am I so massive? Another line I want to play here from Superhands, which I really do like.
Speaker 2:Can you tell me, yeah, as a mate, someone who knows me really well, is the bottom half of me on fire?
Speaker 4:No, yeah, again, I'm not saying he doesn't have funny moments. If you like druggies, if you like that sort of thing, great, I'm not against that, just DJ says ask Superh'm not against that.
Speaker 3:There's great, you're not going to let DJ say it. Just DJ says our super hands. Matt King Brilliantly acted, by the way. Can we just oh, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, yeah. Well, yeah, he's kind of done them adverts recently, hasn't he? Where he's been ill, in which case best wishes, but he looks like he's had some sort of reason anyway, liam, what's your a good bit about? Uh, peep show so this one is how genuinely unique it is, and I think we kind of must establish a difference here. So people say original, and I think that's that's fine, that yeah, to be original.
Speaker 4:they're offering a new take on something or slightly different. This is genuinely unique, this internal dialogue that we hear from the main characters. It's so clever because it offers a completely different perspective that I've never seen done before in anything. I don't know if they stole it from a short film, but as far as I know they didn't. As far as I know they didn't. As far as I know, they came up with this concept of a dialogue between characters and yet we can hear their internal thoughts and I think that's such a clever concept.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I mean I was talking to this today, actually being for a walk today with our friend Tom was very much like Mark Corrigan We've mentioned before. Really similar, yeah, very similar to Mark Corrigan. And he says that it's been done in. It's often done in American sitcoms as a narrative, which you know what I mean. Oh, no, but not like a voiceover. No, no, no, we said this. Yeah, it's sort of like a I don't know in an American one. It'll say something like and at this point I knew things were going to go wrong.
Speaker 4:But theirs is like fucking hell. Well, they used to do it, didn't they? On Sex and the City, where she'd say like, was it like the end of the story? At this moment, I realised having friends was more important than having a make-up routine. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Horrible, like cheesy, boring ending. I think it was like Scrubs and not Big Bang Theory. What's the other one? Arrested Development? Have a voiceover.
Speaker 4:I think of my Name is Earl, didn't they do it on?
Speaker 3:that Might be. My Name is Earl as well. There's a lot of stuff like that in America where it's like that sort of you know and I was not expecting this reply what's it called Wonder Years and fucking Goldbergs and all that sort of stuff. But this is different in that you get the actual shit, shit, shit. What am I going to say? Shit, shit, shit. What am I going to say? Do you know what I mean? Like it's the actual thought.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's not a kind of calm afterthought or overtalk, it's in the moment. Well, actually it's funny you've said that because I've got a. I've got a couple of clips actually, so I'm gonna play them kind of one after the other straight away. So so this would be a I don't know, not a massive clips, but basically it's the same bitch twice, but first time without the dialogue and then the second time with the internal dialogue, just to show you that the difference that gives to the sketch that's interesting.
Speaker 3:I heard this little much, oh, but if you, get in early on Friday you'll owe me three months rent.
Speaker 1:You're coming to the interview.
Speaker 2:Okay, what Nothing? Just something funny.
Speaker 1:But if you get in early Come Friday, you'll owe me three months' rent. You're coming to the interview Okay, oh.
Speaker 2:I'll come me three months' rent. You're coming to the interview? Ok, oh, I'll come to the interview. All right, but I don't think I'll be getting the job. What Nothing, just something funny.
Speaker 1:I'll just say a word and you tell me the very first thing that pops into your mind. Ok, let's start with an obvious one Work, snake Charmer. Just say the first thing that comes to mind Money, not everything. Children, er short. Father Football, mother, fuck, no, not fuck. Father Football. Mother, fuck, no, not fuck. Hello, I'll just say a word and you tell me the very first thing that pops into your mind. He's trying to therapize me. Okay, let's start with an obvious one Work, snake pit, snake charmer. Just say the first thing that comes to mind Money, everything. Snake pit, snake charmer. Just say the first thing that comes to mind Money, everything, not everything. Children Blind, er short, father Fuhrer, football.
Speaker 4:Mother.
Speaker 1:Sophie, fuck, no, not fuck Look.
Speaker 4:So that, to me, sums up. And don't get me wrong, you wouldn't write it that way, would you, without the internal monologue. So I'm not saying like here's how bad it would have been without that, they would have written it differently. But it just gives a different perspective on a scene that actually what's being spoken isn't actually all that amusing, but actually what's being said in his head in the background is what's selling the joke. So yeah, like I said, absolutely like don't blow the line. There's original but then there's unique I don't know anything else that does this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, I remember when it first came out it threw me. But I'll tell you what. We'll go straight on again. We're not doing this. Some great segues here. A bad thing about it is certainly for me in the first series I think you've got it even I think it carried on for you. The camera angles, because it's shot from this one point perspective, can be awful In the first series. It almost makes you feel sick at times, like if I'm ever like saying to someone watch Peep Show, but make sure you watch the first series and then the second, because that first series can be really, really off-putting, I think, with the camera angles. But you've got even a bigger gripe with that, aren't you?
Speaker 4:yeah, it runs through I think every time you're seeing particularly like in in the kissing scenes, that, the sex scenes, that even just the kind of intimate scenes where they're sat really close to other and talked to each other and you've got this huge face filling the screen I find it really unpleasant. You know how can I kind of word it? It's quite intruded, almost. Yeah, it is. It feels like invasive in your sort of personal space.
Speaker 3:When you've got Mark Corrigan grinding away in your face, it's not a nice experience for me anyway a few sex scenes in it and they are horrible and they're obviously meant to be like fairly funny way like to be sort of like outrageous, haven't they?
Speaker 3:it's because I think the first series when I tell people watch peep show but to be fair, they were just finding the feet. And the first series and stuff. It's brilliantly written. The first series when I tell people watch Peep Show but to be fair, they were just finding the feet in the first series and stuff. It's brilliantly written. The first series. I think it's a hard watch with the camera angles. It's quite I don't know. It almost feels like it's I won't say psychedelic, that's the wrong term. It almost feels like you're a bit drunk watching it because it's like sort of quite wobbly and everything's like. I mean it's brilliant how it's done it's like really it's uncomfortable, isn't it?
Speaker 4:It's like you've stumbled upon a scene you shouldn't be in and like, oh, I don't know about this. And yeah, I mean I find Mark Corrigan up close as well, because he's got like from memory, and I suppose this is a dig at David Mitchell, because I would imagine he's not wearing contact lenses but he's jet black eyes Like I don't associate any colour with his eyes, trude in eyes, aren't I I?
Speaker 4:remember somebody saying like when sort of Ted Bundy was kind of in in the moment his pupils dilated to the point what do you mean? Like kind of when he was frenzied? Like apparently his pupils dilated and they were all black and like I can't see any colour in it, just this jet black eye staring at me. It's quite unsettling. This is harsh on David Mitchell because, like you know, oh yeah, I'm a big fan of him. I'm not saying, I'm certainly not making an exclamation point.
Speaker 3:I do find David Mitchell's kissing scenes are more off-putting than Jez's kitchen. What's his name? Robert Webb's kissing scenes?
Speaker 4:Yeah, but I think it's probably kind of well, I would say he's awkwardly doing it purpose like yeah, yeah, I think it's deliberately so yeah but also, I think, like the actors would, would probably say I can imagine robert webb saying well, yeah, if that's what the scene is, and dave mitchell, oh god, I've got yeah imagine like and that translate yeah, again, it's good writing and it's good casting, actually because because they've picked people who fill those roles very well. But yeah, undeniably I find those scenes a bit uncomfortable, I think that's fair enough.
Speaker 3:Well, that's Peep Show, and now we'll go on to it's a contender in the semi-finals and that is Phoenix Knights. It's brilliant, Phoenix Knights. We've said before that it's one of those things neither of us have watched that often recently because it's not been on TV and stuff, but it's just fantastic. But one of the best things it does, I think, is the musical bits, and I'm going to play probably the most famous musical moment in it, to be fair, and this is Jerry St Clair singing Black Bin Bags Come and get your black bin bags.
Speaker 4:They're on offer till December Come and get your Blackfin Bikes.
Speaker 2:They're long and black and slender.
Speaker 4:Heavy duty Blackfin.
Speaker 1:Bikes, no matter what your gender. Heavy duty.
Speaker 4:Blackfin Bikes, whether by a straight or bender, gender heavy duty black pinbags whether by a straight or bender heavy duty black pinbags, something to remember. Just rip with me, just rip with me and tear with me right now. Just rip with me and rip with me and tear with me right now.
Speaker 3:I remember laughing, I, and rip with me and tear with me right now I remember laughing I think that was one of the clips of the second series like when was this played?
Speaker 4:this must be 20 years ago. People still sing this today, don't they like?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, I'll sing it all the time. Come, I'll go to like festivals and stuff like that. So you've got a black bin bag. Come. It's like ridiculous, but there's some great musical moments in Phoenix Nights throughout it. You've obviously got the racist folk band Half a Shilling with Send the Buggers Back, and that's another thing that people I say it like in sort of if Chevy Knight is signed, bad Lone Players, send the Buggers Back. Send the Buggers Back.
Speaker 4:Unbelievable loan players. Send the buggers back. Send the buggers back and unbelievable.
Speaker 3:You just ignore it's complete racist connotations, don't you? Yeah, yeah, because there is. Yeah, yeah, no, but he's saying it obviously brian potter, to say good, uh, good, harmless fun, good, harmless fun. Because, yeah, potfrit, being racist, get him off, get him off. Yeah, uh, brian, singing you are the wind beneath my wheels to his new girlfriend is brilliant as well. Do you know he's doing karaoke?
Speaker 4:Well, yeah, I've got a mention to that coming up later, but yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:Right said Fred, tribute, right said Frank. They're funny as well. But the last episode is very brilliant because all the characters have to do talent tricks, because Dan Perry's cancelled the real acts. So you get Holy Mary doing Lulu. Well, you know, you make me want to shout, she's so fast doing it. You got jerry doing eminem I'm slim, yes I have a real say like we have like a thingy mascot.
Speaker 4:I don't like it we can't rap or like, like deliberately, so, so sort of just speaking the words, isn't it? Well, I'm real shitty. Yes, I'm the real shitty. No, your other slim cities are just imitating.
Speaker 3:Brilliant. You get Spencer doing Gary Glitter. Come on, come on, come on, come on. Young Kenny does Meatloaf. It's brilliant, because I do this with Meatloaf songs. You're trying to remember the words and Do you know what I mean? Like, just starts making it up. Kenny Douglas Sr does Britney Spears. Hit me, baby one more time. But my favourite by a mile. I know what you're going to play. Yeah, yeah, it's fucking brilliant. This is Ray Vaughan and Brian Potter. Ladies and gentlemen, mr Elton John, I can't hide.
Speaker 1:All the right romantic lies, those romantic lies. See me once, once, see the way I feel. You see the way I feel Absolutely brilliant, you know, I don't know if you noticed this when you've seen it.
Speaker 3:I feel you see the way I show your mouth, absolutely brilliant, you know I don't know if you noticed this when you've seen it is he puts his like hand up, really subtly, brian Potter, like his right hand up, as if to say yep, thank you. Do you know what I mean? Like I can't stand.
Speaker 4:No, no, I've gone. Yeah, brilliant. But if you remember, when I got the episode wrong, I thought you were doing this one. So I watched this really recently and, yeah, it's fantastic. Yeah, they're all good. You're right. Actually, I'm kind of sort of surprised we've gone down that route as a strength, because I think it is so strong that this is one of the things we're offering up is the songs in it, but I know what you mean.
Speaker 3:They are. Despite being sort of little clips, they're quite iconic. He did it before in. Obviously we did Mark Parker in another episode when he did that Peter Kay thing, and he's brilliant in that as well. You know he does African tears, african tears for souvenirs, so good, he's brilliant at doing that. Peter Kay went too far with Geraldine, if I'm going to be honest. We had a friend, didn't we actually, who had a one-night stand and I said what's your like? It's a bit like Peter Kaye, you know, when he does Geraldine.
Speaker 4:So not good, not bad.
Speaker 3:Yeah, not good, not bad, but that is one of my favourite things out of a Phoenix Knight. It's just the musical numbers.
Speaker 4:Right night it's just the musical numbers, right? So it's my turn to come at you with something that's a negative. It's a bit harsh, this, I suppose, because this is what they're going for. So. So I'm kind of even, as I'm saying it, I'm sort of thinking, yeah but but is it really a negative? But it's quite. It's quite dark and dingy and depressing at times. It, as I say, it's written that way, but it it takes you to a sort of place where going into sort of these dingy sort of clubs and you you can I can kind of almost smell the carpet and that sort of stale beer smell, and I can imagine going into toilets and and the taps don't work and the doors.
Speaker 4:We've got a solarium now, yeah, we've got a solarium. But yeah, like I went into a club in I can't remember where it was, down in Devon somewhere, but I kind of went. It reminds me of going into a place like this. I went into the toilet and there were like punch holes in all the walls and like the mirrors were all smashed.
Speaker 3:And I thought, for the mirrors were all smashed and I thought for God's sake, like there's a bit actually on Phoenix nights where the shooting episode, where they come in and go. Oh my God, look at the wallpaper. It's so shit. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, well, I've got a clip actually from from that bit a little bit later on, but yeah, not not that bit you're talking about later on depressing, and I'm sure people have great time well, and I have to be honest. So again I'm sort of contradicting myself on this one, but there is a little bit of it that makes me feel a bit like oh god, like like I once went into a it was like a sports and social club in in Corby where I've got family down there and I've gone to meet my cousin's boyfriend at the time and they were playing pool with his football mates and I went in and I kind of went to the bar and I said, oh, can I get a pint of I don't know, a pint of Carlsberg? No, we haven't got Carlsberg, right, can I get a pint of Foster's? No, we haven't got Foster's. And I said, well, tell me what you've got and I'll choose from that.
Speaker 4:And the guy sort of shrugged and he said I don't know, I can give you a what's that? Jamaican beer, a Red Stripe, yeah, he said. He shrugged and said I can give you a Red Stripe. And I said, yeah, all right, how much is that? And again he looked really confused, said, oh, just give us a quid.
Speaker 3:But he didn't get it out, unfortunately. The guy at the Chantrey on Woodseats in Sheffield used to go in and say he was deaf and he used to go in and say all right, mate, can I have a Foster's Carlin Carlin? No, no, no, can I have a Foster's Carlin Carlin? Yeah, I'll get you Carlin, whatever you ask for. Told me about this and I thought like it's a joke, like he once did it, no he literally did that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, every time can I have a bottle of wine, carlin. But yeah, I agree with you there in a sense, but that's that again.
Speaker 4:Well, sure do you kind of get what? Do you understand what I mean? Like that, there are certain like benidorm, it's all set in the sun, the situations can be tacky, but it's kind of quite light and uplifting and like it's all kind of quite, I don't know, you sort of feel good, whereas this is a bit like oh god. Like you know, we I mean I know people who sort of do live lives like this but it's a bit like oh god, like come on, guys like you know, shake yourselves out of it. Like everybody seems a bit down in the dumps.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, look, like we've said before, I've been in many working man's clubs, like growing up, and it's not something I want to do now, I have to admit, as an adult. But yeah, there is that sort of like Agnes, Agnes, you've got a caravan at Chapel Settler or whatever. Well, you aren't, but you know what? I mean yeah, your missus' dad has, and they're all a bit like that there, aren't they as well?
Speaker 4:there's obviously some like happy stuff, but it's all quite downbeat and it's all quite like, oh fucking hell we went in one recently and it was a nice sunny day went in for a beer, hey, can we get two pints, or whatever. It was like a nice sunny day, went in for a beer, hey, can we get two pints, or whatever it was. Yeah, business is shocking again.
Speaker 3:It's like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, remember there were an argument weren't there in Chapel Settler at once, where we go in and say hey, I'm bored of like two people.
Speaker 4:We went up, didn't we? Last year and we recorded a special there, but, um, I might have even mentioned I don't think I did, I'm not sure I did, but anyway, I went up to shop in the morning, um, and I heard a bloke on his phone and he's got like one of the I don't club tropicana shirts on a certain thing. Yeah, yeah, I what mate, it were nasty. Last night it all kicked off. He said next minute DJ's involved. I thought what kind of night is this Singer's involved.
Speaker 5:Yeah, he must have got down off the stage.
Speaker 4:Next minute singer's involved. They must have got down off the stage to get involved in a scuffle. But yeah, again we're trying to find negatives. I love Phoenix Nights, but again we're trying to find negatives. I love Phoenix Knights, but yeah, that is a little bit like some of the situations and some of the scenes and even his office and stuff. It's all a bit tacky, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, completely. So it's me again and I'm offering a positive this time, and I suppose I'm not really selling this episode, am I? But every sitcom kind of has its main characters, but I think Brian Potter is absolutely sort of legendary. There's not many characters who can just do a double take and that can be laugh out loud funny.
Speaker 4:There's moments where he sees things and he sort of shakes his head, and that's funny.
Speaker 3:He doesn't have to speak, like I said, earlier with the singing, when he just like points at Ray Vaughan. It's such a little subtle thing when it comes to him. He's got these massive glasses on he points at. He's brilliant at that. Peter Kay I mean Gervais obviously when he does Brent. Well, we love all the subtleties he does, yeah.
Speaker 4:It Sorry when.
Speaker 3:I've gone back to watch this that I realise fucking he's better, probably, or just as good, at least, peter.
Speaker 4:King. I think he's much more exaggerated. And I know I sort of praised on the last one we did Gavin and Stacey in the last quarterfinal, for it kind of could be a stage show, but Potter's almost doing it as if he's on stage, like it's so over the top. His reactions to things, yeah, of things, yeah, they're absolutely brilliant. Um, I've got a couple of clips. I'm going to play one, one that you mentioned earlier, which is where it's the first series, and he's been on a date and he's taking his date back to his room, uh. But but the kind of background is, if you've not seen it, so as this dialogue's going on, he's going up the stairs really slowly on a stair lift and she's following him behind, looking a little bit confused won't be long now.
Speaker 1:Just you wait things I'm gonna do to you.
Speaker 3:I love that. That's one of the best scenes in it. I think that on Phoenix things I'm gonna do to you things I'm gonna do to you.
Speaker 4:You better wait, like it's so good, he sat motionless on his stairway.
Speaker 3:Yeah, in the first, when they did that Peter Kay thing. Obviously that's where Phoenix Knight starred the first ever thing. He stands up right at the end. Brian Potter, when they did that Peter Kay thing. Obviously that's where. Phoenix Knight starred the first ever thing. He stands up right at the end Brian Potter of that episode and Peter Kay says on the DVD commentary that they were originally going to have him. He was in a wheelchair for a benefit scam, but then they decided just to have him in a wheelchair.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think it's better for that. I've got another clip of Brian Potter Just fantastic dialogue. I'll play it now.
Speaker 3:Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Sweet baby Jesus and the orphans. What the hell's going on? Are my eyes dreaming, Jerry? Or have you got two of my builders singing Acapulco?
Speaker 4:That's unbelievable. It's not especially kind of cleverly written joke, is it? It's unbelievable. It's not especially kind of cleverly written joke, is it? It's all in the delivery.
Speaker 3:Nobody else is going to deliver that. What we should do is this Whoa, whoa, whoa. Roll back in Ulf. What's that where?
Speaker 4:they're creating the sports suite. I can't remember who it is. Did we mention it before?
Speaker 3:It's only an old suite. It's only an old suite.
Speaker 4:I can't remember who it is. Did we mention it before? The Tony and all sweet, tony and all sweet. They've got like all crappy ornaments fixed up around the side of the room and somebody says, somebody swears. I think it's young Kenny. He says hey, toilet mouth. There's a child's bike outside, yeah.
Speaker 3:Child's bike outside. He is those little things, little things for Phoenix Knights. I mean, obviously we're going a bit over time here. It's almost an extra one. Those one-liners, those sort of you know those little sort of things that you like I say whoa Poirot, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4:They're all in a delivery, aren't they the last one I've got here? I mean, this is not actually. This could work with another character, but he delivers this perfectly, and this is what you mentioned previously. So some students have stumbled into the club. They've come to see Jerry Sinclair's comedy night. He's comparing, I think, but obviously they're all dated, old fashioned jokes and they they really don't like it. So they start kicking off and this is how Brian Potter deals with them Out.
Speaker 3:Before I knock you out, sling it, go on, you're not welcome.
Speaker 4:All of you leave.
Speaker 3:I'm not going until I get a refund. Kenny, you're best making my bed up. I want my money back. I want to moonwalk some, but life's a shithouse.
Speaker 4:Again, you could kind of a lot of the ones we've done you could pick out a character.
Speaker 3:I saw you. I saw you I hinges on him.
Speaker 4:Do you agree with that? Yeah, yeah completely hinges on Brian, but there's other ones where you could take out or change some of the even as I'm saying it, I'm thinking I'm Alan Partridge has to be about as my negative.
Speaker 3:I'll follow on from that, but I just want to say that that scene you've just played like I want a moonwalk. So I saw Sheffield United fan can't remember what we were arguing about. It was probably a Wednesday fan, about nothing. I want to get more than 16 points, son. Yeah, no, he said. And I want a moon dance, son. I don't know why A moon dance is a fucking Van Morrison album.
Speaker 4:I'd never heard moon dance outside of and it's a marvellous night for a moon dance.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but yeah, as you say, without Brian Potter. Maybe yeah, but yeah, as you say, him without brian potter. Maybe it probably don't work. But my one of my negatives is there is no character development of any of the characters. So in all the other ones we've got even peep show office partridge to a degree, I think they all develop to some degree as characters. I don't think anyone in phoenix knights develops as a character.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that's interesting actually because I think we mentioned it came up against father characters. I don't think anyone in Phoenix Knights develops as a character. Yeah, and that's interesting actually, because I think we mentioned it came up against Father Ted. Father Ted's almost like a cartoon like the Simpsons, where it resets before each episode and you just go again. But actually there is progression through Phoenix Knights because the club burns down. They have to go again. But actually you're right, none of the characters actually develop in any way, do they?
Speaker 3:So there's one episode, as you mentioned, where Brian Potter gets a love interest, but then it just ends after. That's just one episode. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4:It doesn't carry on.
Speaker 3:I don't know why Is Jerry married? I don't know. I don't think so, but I don't know. Young Kenny, none of them, nothing ever.
Speaker 4:The only development I can think of is that young Kenny gets a tiger spray paint on his face and that remains throughout the series. That's the only character progression, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Tiger paint on his face. That's it. I can't think of any. Like other characters. There's nothing wrong with this. Like Simpsons we've talked about One of the best ever fucking TV shows the Simpsons and obviously they're not developers' characters, but in terms of no, but they don't have the same narrative do they?
Speaker 4:So I get kind of your point here. So because the Simpsons almost just you're just in a loop every week. It's never going to. They don't get older but actually in this time does pass, because we're all seeing events happen with the club. So yeah, you're right, there's never a long-term narrative, is there? I mean, the only one again I can think of like being serious is Max and Paddy's kind of hitmen thing that then runs on into them having to leave and become something else. That's the only story that follows through, really is it?
Speaker 3:I think Max does develop as a character, but not until Max and Paddy, where he becomes a lot more, I don't know, a lot more emotional, a lot more like sentimental, and you see his weaker side. I think like for most of. Phoenix yeah, for most of Phoenix Nights he's just like this hard case bouncer, and when you get to Max and Paddy he does show a completely different side to him. That's the only one, I don't think any of the others.
Speaker 4:But like I say, like when we come to the office next week, bren does develop as a character without we see him get more and more as well yeah, it's through relationships and and even even dawn and yeah there are characters who don't, but there are some of them who at least kind of that as a person. They develop and change.
Speaker 3:You don't really get that up against. Like I say, I didn't like the way it was done. But jez like obviously explores his sexuality and stuff. Mark, I think, has about four different girlfriends and we see different sides to him. Johnson loses his business and stuff. Things happen too. You see different sides of these characters. You don't in Phoenix Knights.
Speaker 4:No, yeah, good one.
Speaker 3:But one of the positives, I think is that there's no over-the-top characters Every single In Pe. Positives, I think, is that there's no over the top characters every single. But in peak show, for instance, jez and mark the the normal characters but like, as I've said, like he eats a dog and you know I mean he fucking as I go at someone like for not buying enough turkey mark and stuff like that. Johnson's not a realistic character, it's a a funny character. What I love about phoenix knights is every single one of these. I I know someone like all these. They could work at my place. Now I'm probably saying with you and you won't think he's a bit odd. They are real people and I think that's why the writing is so good, because it doesn't rely. Partially is a great exampleridge is an extravagant character, but this purely relies on the writing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I think you know it's people like Kenny Dalgley Sr, who himself is a fantastic name. Yeah, yeah, he makes up a load of nonsense and people might think that's ridiculous that anyone would even say that. Well, I know mutual people that that we know, that we've worked with, who have told stories about being secret agents and having gold bars and I can't do it.
Speaker 3:But I could do a fucking actual episode on the guy you're talking about.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, but then I remember sort of my dad my dad sort of works on building sites and him coming back from work saying, oh, you're not going to believe what this guy said Like, yeah, I know of these sort of people not specifically everyone, and not sort of you know they're not all in one place but yeah, you're right, there are. I wouldn't even say they're exaggerations, I'd say they're kind of people you can come across in sort of northern working-class towns.
Speaker 3:So even Jay, in the Inbetweeners there's a bit where someone says why do you lie so much? And he goes well, I just want to stand out. You know that's why I lie, and it's a development of the characters. You know what I mean. It's like a. It's a sort of yeah, this is why he does this With Phoenix Knights. What you get is what you get, like everyone. There's no sort of deeper thing to it, which is it's a bad thing and a good thing as well, because all you're seeing is this like sort of glimpse. It's a bit like early doors. You said about early doors, you get a glimpse of this world and then it's gone.
Speaker 4:Hmm, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, yeah, I think it's exaggerated. It's not even exaggerated. I'm correcting myself there. What I'm trying to say is it could be a documentary, not in the way that it's filmed, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was like a 1986 something filmed in Manitowoc Working Men's club or in yeah yeah, somewhere. And these characters all existed within. There. I can.
Speaker 3:I can see these as real people, maybe not that we've all come across, but but they could be but and this is why the writing is so good, because it's all about the job and there's loads of really good one-liners and there's almost like punch lines, but what's amazingly written about here? And then, because they're all comedians, obviously, like um jerry, what's his name? Uh, come on, dave spiker, um, and neil fitzmaurice who, by the way, he's not a stand-up.
Speaker 4:Does he do any stand-up comedy?
Speaker 3:no, he's a writer. Um, he's funny as well, I've seen him on richard herring.
Speaker 4:I've listened to him on richard herring's one.
Speaker 3:He is kind of naturally funny as well he plays plays Jeff Ballou in Peep Show, fitz Morris, darby this, but they are comedians, especially Peter Kay and Dave Spiky, so they probably have these punchlines lined up anyway for things that they've heard about. But it doesn't feel forced, it doesn't feel like, oh, they've just said this to get this punchline in yeah, no, absolutely spot on.
Speaker 4:I think we're probably going to the final point on phoenix knights, which is it's a negative and it sits nicely against where we started, actually. So you've had a, you've had the ying, now it's time for the yang. So we, you know, if we're going to praise things for longevity and for the amount of hours they've done, I think we have to be quite critical of a sitcom which is two series long and actually the episodes of hours they've done. I think we have to be quite critical of a sitcom which is two series long and actually the episodes are only just over 20 minutes. So in total you're only talking sort of four, four and a half hours worth of material.
Speaker 4:Which people might say Compared to Peep Show, which was 22 and a half, there's a big difference there.
Speaker 3:And I was talking today again to Tom and he goes yeah, but what about Fawlty Towers? And he's right, fawlty Towers were only two series but they were off an hour. I know that's not a massive difference, but you add it up throughout a couple of series and it's like an extra episode or two. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean that would be roughly six hours. This is four and a half and I'm not saying things can still be great on a short run. But you know, it's not so much that it's a negative for this, I suppose, but it kind of really highlights the positive of the things that can write for much longer, because I think I'm not saying they burnt out, I'm sure they could have done more material.
Speaker 3:Well, they did, max and Paddy, didn't they? As a spin off.
Speaker 4:But that in itself sort of suggests that they didn't know what more to do with this. Almost if you know what I mean, like I don't know, I'm sure they which, I have to admit, I've not seen.
Speaker 3:So maybe like there's some development there and stuff, but yeah.
Speaker 4:I mean bear in mind some of it's kind of ad-libbed and improv'd and kind of co-written in the moment that the fact that there's only four and a half hours of material you know, yeah, we probably sound a bit harsh here, because we have no hours of material that got commissioned, did we? So you know they're beating us on that front. But all I'm saying is, yeah, if you're going to offer it as a positive that something managed to create so much content, we have to give the flip side to that and say there's not actually a lot to go through. You could quite happily in one evening get through the full phoenix nights.
Speaker 3:I suppose what I'd ask the viewer, the listener, is if you, if you're voting, can you say and I don't think this is like a yes or no answer, I think could can you have the best sitcom in the last 30 years, being something that's so short?
Speaker 4:so you're. So if they they can't just give a yes or no, you want an essay?
Speaker 3:No, no, I'm just saying in your head, can you think, the best sitcom of the last 30 years. So you're advising.
Speaker 4:If somebody wants to vote Phoenix Nights, they've just got to stop and think. Can I have the best sitcom of the last 30 years that has such a short?
Speaker 3:time and you can have that because Fawlty Towers is renowned as being, like, the best sitcom or one of the best sitcoms of like the previous 30 years. So, like I said, there's no yes or yes or no answer, but that's something. I think that if you're going against Peep Show, a lot of people say, well, peep Show lost it, but Phoenix Knights never had the chance to lose it.
Speaker 4:Phoenix Knights never had the chance to lose it. If Peep Show finished after Series 4, that would be 25 minutes 6, doing a mass live for you.
Speaker 3:Maths fans are here. What's his name? The maths fan. What's his name? Zoe Ballsdad.
Speaker 4:I mean, you're still talking 22 hours. No, it can't be 22 hours, that's the full run. You're still talking, talking I don't know why?
Speaker 4:why even action? I don't know. I can't, I can't think I'm thinking right. So six episodes in a series, in each 25 minutes, so that's 6. 30 minutes is. So you've got three hours, but you've got to take off half an hour, so that's two and a half. So if you've done four, 10 hours, but you've got to take off half an hour, so that's two and a half. So if you've done four, ten hours. So if you've done four, it's about ten hours.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So even if it finished there, where some people think it should have, you'd still be times four, no times two. The content of Phoenix Pies.
Speaker 3:That's the best bit of sitcom of both.
Speaker 4:It's a weekend where I'm not drinking as well.
Speaker 3:I don't know what's going on. Brilliant, but yeah, so that's the thing and like, like I say, the, for both of these shows we've had to scrape the barrel for the bad things, um, or things that we're not too sure about, as we will for the next two, but that that's what. You know. We've done our best, we've. I'm trying to put doubts in people's minds who are like so, uh, yeah, I'm definitely going that. I want the mac, if there's any like sort of thing to this podcast. I want people to think, oh yeah, no, I thought that actually. Right, that's changed my vote to this. You know what?
Speaker 4:I mean, it changed my life. If that's anything we want to take from this podcast, you can say yeah, that that, Liam.
Speaker 3:I really did enjoy that.
Speaker 4:Both great. Next one's going to be good as well, I think.
Speaker 3:Next one, I'm Alan Partridge versus the Office, and we're going to do exactly the same Three things that we love about it that we've not really talked about so far, and three things that we're not sure that works that well, and then it'll be the final. Then it'll be the final.
Speaker 4:Final. It'll be the final, then it'll be the summary. We might even have to turn it into a two-part episode. It just depends. We've had a lot of feedback.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know. Again, I'm not doing mass live on air because I've just seen what's happened to you.
Speaker 3:We genuinely have had thousands of votes for this, so I do think it's quite legitimate, whoever gets to the final and wins. This has gone through a lot of like. There's a lot of people who's voted and they're not all just us, no, just 20,000. We've had a lot of votes. I really, really, really appreciate it, because even if you don't listen to the podcast well, you won't listen to this it makes it more legitimate the more people that vote, so get a share and all that sort of bollocks. For the semi-final, and that is Peep Show versus Phoenix Knights, we'll be back with Alan Porteous versus the Office, and then the votes are open for the final.
Speaker 4:Yeah, can't wait for that. Actually, I'm intrigued. I don't this final, but yeah, I'm happy with the semis. I think. I think the semi-finals are a good summary, but let's see. Let's see who gets through this one. This is going to be really interesting. Cheers for your what would I say your expertise, andrew I think so yeah yeah thank you, thanks for your maths, see you later.
Speaker 4:See you later. If anyone wants to get in touch with us, send us anything. Find us on Twitter at livingwithmaid1, or you can send us an email at livingwithmaidley at outlookcom.
Speaker 1:Living with Maidley.
Speaker 4:you, you, you, you you and just a quick note in there um, me and the legend that is Travelling Blade had a minor argument last week that was in no way a reference to him. Andrew pointed out to me that sounded like it could be and it absolutely wasn't. So no, this sort of thing happens to me all the time. That was not a Travelling Blade reference.