Growth & Greatness eCommerce Podcast
Growth & Greatness eCommerce Podcast
#24 - Building a Brand from the Ground Up: How Stryx Cosmetics Leveraged TikTok to Grow a Passionate Community of Fans w/ Jon Shanahan
It all started with one question: Why is there no brand that is destigmatizing and normalizing self-care for men?
This is the question that co-founders Jon Shanahan and Devir Kahan seeked to answer with Stryx - a discreet men’s cosmetic and skin care brand aiming to help guys look and feel their best with ease & comfort. A radical problem needed creative solutions and Jon’s background as the founder & creator of The Kavalier, a menswear review site, came in handy when he discovered TikTok.
Now backed by over 200k fans on TikTok, Jon joins Scott to share his insights on this popular platform. Jon believes in TikTok’s power to educate audiences, so tune in as he details what makes this trending app so different from other apps. Plus, you’ll discover Stryx’s journey from defining their ideal customers to how they now have loyal fans and endless inspiration for exciting product ideas.
Scott & Jon also get into a very illuminating discussion about tried and tested tips of effective content creation, how TikTok embraces a constant testing mindset, as well as how brand founders can use TikTok to their advantage.
As TikTok continues to expand its reach across the globe, Jon believes that the sky’s the limit and that the platform hasn’t hit its tipping point yet so listen in and learn how to reach new audiences for your brand through harnessing the power of TikTok!
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0:00 - 0:27 - G&G eCommerce Podcast Theme
This is the Growth & Greatness eCommerce Podcast, powered by Right Hook Digital, with your hosts Scott Seward & Raymond Johnston. If you’re an eCommerce brand founder, entrepreneur, or marketer looking to accelerate profitable growth for your business, then listen in ‘cause this is the podcast for you.
0:27 - 10:51 - Introduction of guest Jon Shanahan
Scott (0:27 - 1:08) - Okay, welcome back to the Growth & Greatness eCommerce Podcast. This week, Ray can’t join us. We both have heavily pregnant wives - his wife is due in a few days and mine is due in about 3 weeks, so this would probably be the last episode we do for a little while. I’m not sure exactly how long we’re going to be off-air, but we’ve got a really interesting guest talking about a topic that's pretty hot right now, on the TikTok side of things, with a product that really, kind of, I guess breaks the mold of convention a little bit so I'm really interested to dive into this. Today, we have Mr. Jon Shanahan from Stryx or Stryx, Stryx I’m assuming.
Jon (1:08 - 1:11) - Stryx, yeah. Stryx like the owl.
Scott (1:10 - 1:23) - Nice, nice. Well, man, welcome to the show. Give us a little background into yourself, how you got started - I know you got a bit of a YouTube background initially - and how that evolved and the brand came about.
Jon (1:23 - 2:43) - Sure, I realized, the other day, I don't really say the name on TikTok at all. And so, yeah, I can see, I can see how it says there. I'm always just talking about product. My background is, you know, coming out of college, while I was in college full-time, I was working full time for Apple, in their stores, and then I ended up, kind of, moving up the rank there into a sales lead, and then I did training at a lot of stores. And so, that was how I, like, cut my teeth in the corporate world, corporate retail, what do we want to call it? And then I went into B2B SaaS. And then as I was working at a B2B SaaS company, I started a YouTube channel on the side because I had to pitch Fortune 500 CEOs and I was a 24 year-old kid that needed to dress the part. And so, I was buying a lot of clothes, and then I realized that nobody was talking about the brands, the clothes that I wanted. So I was like, ‘I can make YouTube videos.’ So I started making YouTube videos about the clothes that I was buying and dressing better. And then, you know, ultimately that led to Stryx because my co-founder now was, who followed the channel at the time, and then we got talking and then, you know, Stryx came together. It was just, you know, all things lined up really well to be like, you know, somebody needs to be out in front of this thing, showing guys it’s okay, doing tutorials, leading content, and, you know, everything lined up really well.
Scott (2:43 - 2:48) - Awesome. Awesome. Tell us a little bit about the brand and the product and what you're trying to do with it.
Jon (2:48 - 3:15) - Sure. So Stryx, the goal is to destigmatize and normalize, you know, men taking care of themselves. Specifically, we bridge the intersection of skin care and cosmetics. There's a lot of brands out there that are trying to, you know, make skin care for men, but there are very few that are actually doing cosmetics. So we launched with a concealer and a tinted moisturizer, both products that we know men are buying and using, but not nearly to the degree that women tend to…
Scott (3:15 - 3:16) - Or admitting.
Jon (3:16 - 3:30) - Into the premise… Yeah. And the premise was, you know, what would this look like if it was built from the ground up for men - formulation, package, design, you know, marketing, education, you know, what would that look like to build a beauty brand for men, and that's really where we started.
Scott (3:30 - 3:48) - Nice, nice. So what's the overall mission behind the brand? Because it's obviously, as you said, it's something that's got a bit of a stigma behind it. Men don’t usually talk about makeup. It's, I guess, perceived as a feminine thing. So, what are we driving towards with Stryx here?
Jon (3:48 - 5:18) - Men don't talk about personal care that much, it’s interesting. I thought, I knew there was a stigma going into it, I had no idea how big it would be, you know, as we dig up, dug into it more, but, you know, the overall mission is like, you know, it really comes from a personal place, which is, when I, on my wedding day, had a breakout and I remember being, I remember going to bed and I have my wedding and I was like, ‘Please, like, I don't want any pimples, I'm getting married tomorrow,’ and I woke up and I had a big, like, just four or five of them, just down my chin, and I was like, you know, whether it was stress or bad eating or whatever it was at the time. I was just like, ‘All right, well, I just live with it,’ and then, you know, talking to other guys, every guy has had to experience it. It's not a wedding, if it's not a wedding, it's a first date or it's a Zoom call or a pitch meeting, like whatever it is, every guy has that experience but men are expected to live with it, whereas women have a 1,000 ways and brands and products that they can get that instantly, you know, clear skin look. And for us, it was like, ‘Okay, what, why is that the case?’ And so, when you look into it and, you know, there is, you know, there is a perceived femininity around these products, so how do we break that? How do we, you know, make this a little bit more accessible? How do we show guys that it can be another grooming essential just like your razor or your shampoo, and that's really where, you know, we push forward and so, yeah, the goal is to, you know, let guys use whatever product they want to, you know, if they want that boost of confidence. If this is what gives it to them, great, how do we, you know, facilitate that?
Scott (5:18 - 5:57) - That's perfect. And it's almost like that perfect example of, when you think about market mass desires and tapping into a private one, it's an underlying thing with guys because they want to look good, right? They want to feel good, but it's just not something that they talk about. I love how this has tapped into that underlying psychological desire and really started to unlock that. How did this? Obviously, you've had a content creation background, video, YouTube. How did this all lead to TikTok being, I guess, is it your primary channel? I know you're active, very active on YouTube and Instagram, but is TikTok, like, number one now? Where does it sit across your marketing mix?
Jon (5:57 - 6:53) - Definitely number 1. But when I started, the premise was I would just build a YouTube channel and we would go off from there. And the reality is that, you know, in 2019, we launched, it was very different than when I started in 2015. It's very different now and it's like you can still grow a channel but it's not what it was, you know, a decade ago. And at the time, you know, I did, and if you look at a lot of the content it is from, you know, 2020, 2019 - 2020 on YouTube and the idea there is that's the content library because when I started experimenting with TikTok, the very first post that I did, I still don't know how to use it. I barely, you know, I left the video up, it’s still there. I was just showing how to use the concealer on razor burn and I had a video like 2X speed and whatever, and, like, I didn't finish it, but I posted it and I'm like, ‘Alright, just see what happens,’ and it got 350,000 views. I was like, ‘I don't get that many views on a really established channel, like there's something here.
Scott (6:53 - 6:55) - Yeah, without paying a lot of ad spend.
Jon (6:55 - 7:57) - Yeah, without paying a lot of ad spend. And I was like, ‘Okay, I posted organically a 12 second video that was unfinished, slapdash, and I got all these views like what can happen here?’ And so, that led to more of a mix where, you know, 70 or 80% of my time was on YouTube and I was just, you know, testing things out on TikTok, spending a lotta time on the app, like what is the language of the platform? How does it work? And, you know, I thought it was late in 2019. I was like, ‘I don't know, I don't think this is going to go anywhere.’ And then, yeah, just keeping at it. And then as they, as the platform just morphed, and I've watched creators rise and fall, and as they started testing ads, like we were on their way before you get to run ads. And even when they started allowing you to run ads, the platform was no good and we burned through a lot of cash that way. But it's just so rapidly improved, and we’re definitely investing in it, and the culture of TikTok has become so much the tip of the spear of, just, internet culture in a way which is really interesting that it's just, you know, continued to be of interest and has continued to grow for us.
Scott (7:57 - 8:19) - Yeah, we've definitely seen the, especially in the last 12 months, I think the evolution of the ad platform and its impact, it’s changed significantly. But as a platform as a whole, like it’s only had a short life span. But as you said, it’s grown and evolved quite quickly. What are some of the changes you're seeing now compared to what it was, you know, 2, 3 years ago and how is that evolving?
Jon (8:19 - 10:18) - Yeah, I think the most exciting thing is, I was very heavy into Vine when that was big. That was pre- my YouTube days, but I was really into Vine. And so, just that shorter form, like, content was always really interesting. And the fact that, you know, you can, the other thing too is, and what really drew me to TikTok was that you're doing everything in the app and all the editing tools are in the app. It's not just a powerful distribution platform. You can also do everything in the app to edit, which, you know, there's a lot of people that will build it in another platform and import to TikTok. But yeah, some of the changes, I mean, when I started, it was purely 15 second videos and I think the core structure of the app has remained the same - the sounds, you know, sounds of trending sounds, the way that you remix sounds - but then everything else around that has changed like, you know, you don't need… Early on, it was, I remember just kind of tracking how effective hashtags were, you just see going down over time and it's like, ‘Alright, hashtag strategy isn't that critical for organic growth anymore, but sound strategy still is.’ You know, the length of videos, it's up to three minutes now. I remember when they were adding, you know, three minutes, everyone’s freaking out. Now they’re adding 10 minutes. And so, just the way that that's gone, and then, also, you know, your ability to, like, for me, for us now, if you look in the marketplace for Shopify, and you can directly link to video, you can directly link the products in a video, like I was dreaming of doing that 2 years ago, and now it's as easy as, you know, add it to your marketplace, boom, put it in the video, and even the way that it curates, you know, they definitely have a big focus on the shopability of the platform in a way that Instagram always did, but it's still not that good, and it’s like, how long have they been, yeah. How many years have been trying to get TikTok or Instagram to be more shoppable and TikTok’s like, ‘You link right to Shopify, boom, you’re out,’ and, you know, you can check out. And so we're also, we always try to be very much on the edge of those features that are coming out, like I'll see something on Twitter, I'll send it to my co-founder, he'll ping the TikTok rep, and then they'll turn on a feature for us, which is pretty cool.
Scott (10:18 - 10:49) - That's amazing. I do wonder whether it's a scale thing because we've definitely noticed that, you know, ‘cause I think Facebook, Instagram, they seem to be able to move a lot faster. And maybe now that, at their size, it just becomes difficult. Like, if we go back 18 months and they were throwing a lot of money at us in test ad spend for Facebook Shops, and it was just an absolute waste of money, it was ineffective. And even since then, it hasn’t evolved to a point where I think, it wasn’t the product that they wanted to be, whereas TikTok seems to be able to move a lot faster with the product and evolution of the platform at the moment.
Jon (10:50 - 10:51) - For sure.
10:53 - 18:56 - How does Stryx use TikTok as a brand and what differentiates the platform from other sites?
Scott (10:53 - 11:20) - In terms of getting started on the platform, for brands out there that are active on there, from where you started from putting that first video up, and I guess that evolution timeline to where you are now from a strategic standpoint, what are some of the key “A-ha!” moments that you thought, ‘Okay, yeah, that's something that really works,’ whether it was in video structure, template, pace, tempo - how has that evolved overall?
Jon (11:20 - 12:45) - Yeah. You need somebody that understands, like, the language of TikTok. We’ve talked about it before, it's like, how you speak to the camera, there's, like, a very TikTok-y way to do it. The good thing is a lot of that is applicable to [Instagram] Reels and to YouTube Shorts, like, it’s not just wasted on just a single platform, which is nice. I've also talked to a ton of brands now that are interested in it and, usually, what I'll kinda direct them to do is you have to find the thing that TikTok likes about you and your brand and then just keep doing that over and over. And so, for me, like, especially in the last 6 or 7 months, I've found that if I do a voice over and I show my routine and I talk about masculinity in some way and I just do it over me shaving and applying the concealer, like, TikTok loves that and it's like that video is going to get a 1,000,000, you know, a 1,000,000 views, posting that, and then doing that, but then figuring out the other formats that you can replicate over and over for yourself because, you know, TikTok, for better or worse, kinda pigeonholes you into a niche or, you know, a certain type of video. And so for me, it's routines, it’s explainers of the product, and any time that I have a mustache, the videos always do better like, literally, our videos perform twice as well, our videos, organically and ads, perform twice as well when I have a mustache. It’s like, ‘Why?,’ no idea but the market is spoken. And so I keep the mustache and so…
Scott (12:45 - 12:48) - Take notes. Split tests with a fake mustache, if you don't have one.
Jon (12:48 - 12:55) - Yeah. And the other thing too, like, talking about brands getting started is, TikTok wants quantity over quality and it'll give you really fast…
Scott (12:55 - 12:57) - It wants quality over quantity?
Jon (12:57 - 13:28) - Quantity over quality. It gives you, it’s the best place to test really fast on what is working, from a messaging standpoint, from a video standpoint. And, like, the more you throw at it, the faster you'll see, ‘Alright, this did twice as well. Do this again,’ but figure out, you know, how you can either shorten it, do it a little bit faster, change it. And so you're not penalized for posting more, you’re actually just penalized for, you know, if you just, you know, wait a few weeks, you know, post anything like that's when, it’s not that you're penalized, but TikTok will reward you if you're posting over and over…
Scott (13:28 - 13:30) - It likes the pace. Right, okay.
Jon (13:28 - 13:30) - In the platform.
Scott (13:30 - 13:57) - So, the other thing I’m really interested in hearing is, how do you see the cross-purposing of the content that you’re creating between IG, YouTube, and TikTok - similarities, differences, are you able to create one core piece and then break it into different formats on the platform? How are you doing that content creation and distribution across those platforms?
Jon (13:58 - 14:02) - Well, for us, just because we know it works, I mean, it starts on TikTok and it goes everywhere else.
Scott (14:02 - 14:03) - Right.
Jon (14:03 - 14:41) - And for the most part, I mean, that will work. There's been a few videos that have, kind of, popped on Reels that didn't do as well on TikTok and vice versa. But for the, in general, like, I just did a video in March that got 6.5 million views and, like, when we put it on Reels, it did great on Reels too, and it's like, there's definitely a level of correlation, but that kind of, like, format idea is, kind of, it's kind of TikTok agnostic. And so, you know, you can take that video and toss ‘em to Reels, just make sure you get the right, you know, hashtags and that sort of thing, and it can pick up because, at the end of the day, an engaging video is an engaging video.
Scott (14:41 - 14:52) - Yeah. So, you've got a piece of content on TikTok performing well. How are you formatting, reproducing that differently for YouTube, for example?
Jon (14:52 - 14:56) - I just, I'm taking the same video file…
Scott (14:55 - 14:56) - Really?
Jon (14:56 - 15:49) - Over there, like, with the exception of some of the, because what TikTok loves, especially from ads, is, like, comment responses, when it has the comment bubble and that doesn't always, I mean it, I mean, it works fine in Instagram Reels, but if you want to, like, take that out, you can or, you know, I'll just make sure that if I'm gonna do this voice over, I'll have the video that goes up on TikTok with a comment response. And then it will have, you know, the comment response bubble on YouTube Shorts, that sort of thing. So, for the, yeah, you can pretty much use the same thing. The only exception would be, like, the sounds, if you use a sound on TikTok, YouTube really doesn't like that. So, try to use as many, like, non-commercial sounds if you're going to put them into YouTube Shorts, or just make it without a sound and then put it up into YouTube Shorts. YouTube is definitely the most stringent on those commercial sounds.
Scott (15:50 - 15:56) - Yeah, right. So, but in terms of, so basically using the same upbeat sort of tempo that you use on Reels across YouTube as well.
Jon (15:57 - 17:00) - Yeah. I mean, as long as it fits within the brand, I mean, if your brand is not, kind of, quick paced sort of thing. Like, I say that too, about TikTok is, it's such a, it's such a weird platform that, even if it's not your brand, like, you have to make your brand more TikTok-y to succeed on TikTok, and you can do whatever you want than any of the other brands. Like, if you look at our Instagram, it's very much, you know, the museum - it’s very polished, very refined and, like, that's definitely not who we are on TikTok, but that is what Instagram likes. We'll put up some of the content in the Reels, you know, and those get some traction, but you, kind of, have free rein on TikTok because people expect something different for TikTok. I'm trying to think, there's a brand, I wanna say, it's like a pet subscription box and they did an entire thing where the whole premise of their TikTok page ended up being that squirrels have taken over their TikTok page and, like, people loved it. And it was, like, down with the dogs, we hate dogs, how, like, dogs need like it was, it was an insane campaign, but TikTok loved it because it's just weird.
Scott (17:00 - 17:08) - Weird engagement, but I love it. I love it. From a, how does this tie into your paid strategy?
Jon (17:09 - 17:10) - On TikTok?
Scott (17:10 - 17:22) - Well, just overall. Like, is TikTok your primary organic channel or is that for paid as well? How does it compare with Facebook, Instagram now? How are you seeing it between the two channels?
Jon (17:22 - 17:55) - Yeah. I mean, it's both. I mean, organic I would say it's a 50%, maybe 50- 50 organic on TikTok. And then, yeah, last summer, we just turned off Facebook and Instagram for a few months where, like, it's not even worth burning the money. Let’s just go all in over here. I actually had, I had breakfast with Moiz Ali from Native and he was like, ‘You know, people are always like diversify, diversify, diversify and I was like just lean into what's working.’ And that was, you know, I said to my co-founders like, ‘He makes a compelling point and…’
Scott (17:55 - 17:56) - Nail in then scale it.
Jon (17:56 - 18:26) - ‘Yeah, he kinda knows what he’s doing.’ So, you know, we definitely want to get some other channels churning even, like, in March, we probably had our first time where we had a really super strong organic video, but then, because we had been setting up, we have a new head of growth and he's been, kind of, like setting up the infrastructure around TikTok to, like, get more retargeting going. And, like, that was the longest tail any of our videos we ever had because we are catching on other platforms versus just, like, hammering on TikTok. So, yeah, that's a critical part of it.
Scott (18:26 - 18:49) - Yeah, I agree with Moiz’s point. You know, I think a lot of brands get distracted and get away from what's working, and then feel like they've got to diversify for the sake of diversifying. But if you're not limited by scale, you should probably just focus on what's working and doing it to a point where you can't grow any further on that platform because it's always easy to get distracted, right? There's so many options…
Jon (18:49 - 18:55) - If you're seeing CPAs that are a 6 on Facebook, why keep putting money into Facebook? It’s, like, that's what’s crazy.
Scott (18:55 - 18:56) - Yeah, yeah. I couldn't agree more.
18:59 - 24:53 - Tried and tested content creation tips to jump into TikTok for brand founders
Scott (18:59 - 19:13) - What are some of the tried and tested tips that you recommend for brands? Like, just looking at TikTok - they haven't looked at it, they haven't, you know, launched anything organic. Where's the best place to start, just to start dialing into what's working?
Jon (19:13 - 21:02) - Yeah, most, unless you have a UGC-style creative already happening on other platforms, you can't really put creative into TikTok from other places. It has to be very native to the platform. So, like, unless, I mean there's some caveats there, but really, like, it doesn't really work to shove, you know, polished creative into TikTok. The other thing too, is I have found very few brands, I'm looking every day - I spend a lot of time on TikTok - that are doing well without a creator. And so, whereas you can throw up your creative and imagery on other platforms and do well from an, like, especially from a paid perspective, it's really hard to do on TikTok. TikTok loves to see people, they like dialogue, they like conversations, and, like, even the ManScaped guys, they have team, their team members are doing creative on TikTok and their brand, other places, isn't really that, but their brand is, they’re kind of product-focused, they’ll show creators, actors, and that sort of thing, but on TikTok, it’s people making videos. And then, you don't need to be as trend-heavy as most people say. It definitely helps and you want to use sounds that are like, you know, current on the platform, but I think a lot of the recommendations I end up seeing is like, ‘Do these five trends to blow up,’ and, you know, ‘Use this sound, this thing,’ and, like, you can definitely do that. But, like, from having made a 1,000 videos last year, maybe 15% of those are some sort of, like, trend for us and, like, they didn't even perform that well. So there's something to it, but don't think that you have to. It's like, don't think you have to dance. You don't have to the trends. If you're coming in with, like, a unique perspective and you're doing it in a way that, it feels very native to TikTok, then you'll be okay.
Scott (21:04 - 21:33) - You've got a bit of an advantage being brand co-founder and content creator because you've been able to spend the time to understand the platform. You're, obviously, invested in the brand yourself. A lot of brand owners don't necessarily want to be that front-facing, content creator type of person. From your side, do you think that helps, I guess, being that consistent face on there and people recognize again now that you’re up there and creating that regular content on a daily basis?
Jon (21:34 - 21:48) - Yes, I somehow fell, ass backwards, into being a slightly camera-photogenic person that is also the founder of a brand on a platform that really likes small brands and founders, and that kind of thing.
Scott (21:47 - 21:48) - Triple threat!
Jon (21:48 - 23:04) - Yeah, there is a side of TikTok that really likes, like, the small founder brand, sort of, thing, but that's like really small businesses, like Etsy businesses. But brands can definitely work with a, like, you know, a named creator. Let's say, I mean, if you want to jump into TikTok as a brand, start organically. It's, like, pick 3 creators and then have them create content for you. Have, you know, the creators do 2 or 3 pieces of content a week, across 3 creators, and then which one of those is going to work really well and they just double down on that one. And so whether you find them on the TikTok Creator Marketplace or, you know, name the place that you source these from, you can source your customers. We have our customers sending videos, times that we use as a sort of thing, you know, TikTok just likes to see people. And so, you can still do it. You know, it doesn't have to be yourself. However, if you do really want to do well on the platform, just put, just pick up the camera and start making TikToks yourself because TikTok loves, TikTok loves, like, founders with, like, creative stories, entrepreneur stories, TikTok loves that, and use that to your advantage because not everybody's gonna be comfortable enough to get on camera. Yeah, I just locked into the fact that, you know, I can pick up the camera and talk to it for eight hours.
Scott (23:04 - 23:23) - Yeah, I think it's getting past that mental block, especially for someone like me in their 40s who perceives this as a younger demographic, sort of, platform and just getting out of that headspace and just filming, just doing it, putting it up and testing. How much time do you put into the content creation a week, for the moment?
Jon (23:26 - 24:19) - Less than I probably should, but more than I, less than I want to, more than I should. The thing is, and, like, when I say pick up the camera, like some of the videos I spend the most time on, like maybe I'll put 2 hours into a video and I, like, I have the outline and I’ll edit it and that sort of thing, they never do as well as when I just pick up the camera and I just say something stupid into it. It's, like, as frustrating as that is, that is, that’s the thing I've had to get over. And so, the other thing I'm trying to do a lot more is, like, you know, especially with routines, I'll try to shoot a routine and then, you know, chop that up three different ways and put three different voice-overs on it. So there's ways you can be, you know, work smarter, not harder about it. And you had said to, about the young demographic, like a third of our customers, that even that we’re acquiring through TikTok are over the age of 40 and, like, not only is that kinda weird for men's cosmetics, but also, you know, the platform and so…
Scott (24:19 - 24:22) - So much has evolved, right? In just a couple of years.
Jon (24:19 - 24:36) - Oh, yeah! Yes, and the other thing too, is like if you're nervous about, you know, just getting on the camera for the first time, the best place to do it is TikTok because it will only send out the good stuff, and it'll, like, it's the best way to kind of let the market decide. And if it doesn't go anywhere, nobody’s going to see it.
Scott (24:36 - 24:53) - No one’s gonna see it. It's exactly, what we always tried to tell founders with ads, if they don't like the ad, if it doesn't work, no one's gonna see it. And if it does, it’ll make you a lot of money. It’s a win-win. Yeah, I think it's definitely getting past that mental block for a lot of founders.
24:54 - 30:58 - How does Stryx use TikTok in terms of scalability & product development?
Scott (24:54 - 25:09) - Now that you guys have grown to the point where you have, how do you see this from a scalability standpoint, moving forward, if you're still the primary content creator, or are you bringing other content creators in, or is that part of the strategy? How does this become something scaleable over the next 2 - 3, 4, 5 years?
Jon (25:09 - 25:46) - Yeah. So we've constantly tried to find other creators. We probably have about 25 guys we work with now across TikTok. Number one, guys are really tough to find, good content creators that are males are hard to find. And number two, we still haven't found one that’s as effective as me. And so, like, even just setting aside, like, the fact that I'm the founder, just running, you know, a story about the product for some reason. And you know what? There's another brand that I see on TikTok all the time. They just replaced their other creators with a guy with a mustache and he takes his shirt off like I do…
Scott (25:46 - 25:47) - They’re watching you. They’re watching you, man.
Jon (25:47 - 26:48) - Clearly, they're understanding that there’s a template for this. So yeah, we continue, I mean, I would love to find 2 or 3 other content creators that we can consistently put on the page and, like, have that churning and, you know, we’re constantly testing more guys. And so, yeah, the way it, this scales is that I start to become a quarter or less of the videos and I just kinda jump in for, you know, like, ‘We launched at Target, like, ‘Hey, here's me, you know me. Here's us at Target,’ that sort of thing, but leaving the product demos because the biggest hurdle right now is like we're a brand that caters to men that are older, men that are younger. We have, you know, multiple shades of our product, and I'm just one white guy, you know, plastering the page and are always trying to find out the creators. They can demonstrate our products in different use cases, you know, older guys have rosacea, I don't have rosacea. So, the way that this scales is to, you know, get solid creators. I keep seeing the actors work better so maybe we got to, kind of, dig into the actors’ space versus just purely creators, so there is that to it.
Scott (26:48 - 26:56) - I'm inspired to do our first Right Hook TikTok with my shirt off, get the rug out, and shave this mustache.
Jon (26:56 - 26:58) - And you should definitely do that.
Scott (26:58 - 26:59) - It could be the breakthrough one…
Jon (26:58 - 27:05) - I’ll be your first like. I’ll be your first like, I’ll stitch it for you, and we’ll make it viral.
Scott (27:05 - 27:25) - You can mock it all you like. I'm not sure whether it would scare people or what, but I'll give it a crack. Given you've got so much engagement coming from the platform now, that's obviously a lot of customer insight, consumer feedback. How are you using the platform now from that standpoint to guide product and development of product?
Jon (27:25 - 27:32) - Yeah. I just pulled today our March stats and we had 9,480 comments in March.
Scott (27:32 - 27:34) - Wow, that's a data goldmine.
Jon (27:34 - 28:53) - Yeah, I read every single one, which isn't, maybe not the best thing for my mental health, but any sort of, like, trends that I come out - whether it's, like, messaging or, I just told my co-founder this the other day, is like, from when I started on TikTok and the language that we were using around the products, like even that has just so slowly evolved based on the types of comments that we get. And, like, when we started, we had no idea that there would be a pretty big contingent of customers that were excited that, you know, in non-safe households, where you can't typically buy makeup, you could buy this product because it's a, you know, discreet packaging and it’s like, I had no idea, like that's not my lived experience, but it was great to hear that, like, that's a thread that comes up, or we keep seeing, and this has always been one of the things that I want to dig into. We keep seeing, they’re like, ‘I just saw this, I bought it for my boyfriend,’ or ‘I just found this, bought it for my husband,’ like that is something that we need to lean into more because so many products that men are introduced to, they come from their partner. Yeah, we see that. And even just products, like we get a lot of requests for, like, guyliner, which we never had on our roadmap, but now we’re, kind of like, you know, I got my hundredth comment asking for eyeliner targeted to men, maybe we should look into it.
Scott (28:54 - 28:56) - Give release drops a test.
Jon (28:56 - 29:31) - Yeah, I mean, it informs, you know, messaging, it informs product, it informs even just like the way that we run customer service because, you know, we get a lot of DMs on TikTok, and then how do we handle that? And so, yeah, it's literally just become, like, the tip of the spear for how we engage with everybody. And then, there's so many, you know, guys that, I recognize their name because they're always in the comments and it's like they're, you know, they know me and I know them, I go live all the time on TikTok, and, like, they'll hop in the live and we'll chat. And so, it really is just like a big community-building exercise and, you know, how do you continue to, you know, bring that in across the whole company?
Scott (29:31 - 30:01) - Yeah, I love it, I love it. Does that, especially around the messaging side, is that something that just organically evolves or is that something you sit down every quarter, every 6 months, collate everything, look at it going, ‘Okay, we may need to tweak something here, tweak the messaging, tweak the product, the packaging.’ I love that packaging because I assume there would be a large part of your market that is embarrassed to receive, like, male skin care products in the mail. And then that helps.
Jon (30:01 - 30:56) - Yeah, a lot of stuff ends up making it into, like, a list of, like, ‘Alright, this would be a good message, this would be a cool hook, this would be, you know, something there.’ And so, a lot of that is just, like, screenshots in Slack that then, you know, make their way into Asana and that sort of thing, and so there's definitely a lot of that. But then, yeah, even like the packaging, the reason we added on our box that is in Target right now, we kept seeing in customer service and on TikTok that guys are using this for rosacea. And then, I was like, ‘What is rosacea?’ So I Googled it and it's like, we kept seeing that come up so we put it on our box because that's a use case and it's like, I think that's one of the things that's tough in a big company, but really easy because like I was designing the packaging and it’s like, ‘Alright. I keep seeing this come up, gotta put it on the packaging,’ and then when we did a new production run, we did that. So yeah, I don't have any best practices on that for larger companies, but yeah, in a small team, you can definitely take that feedback directly off the chain.
Scott (30:56 - 30:58) - Yeah, that's beautiful.
30:59 - 38:47 - Defining Stryx’s ideal customers with their current demographics & user base
Scott (30:59 - 31:11) - What’s some of the… actually, now, going back to the customer, how has that evolved from who you first thought you were selling this product to, to now? Has that changed over time?
Jon (31:12 - 31:38) - Hasn't changed. I think it's just expanded, like we still, you know, we still know the core customer they're going after is basically me. It's like a guy, I’m a dad with three kids that, you know, I go to the gym and I try to dress, you know, my age, I dress a little nicer. You know, I have a basic skin routine and then, every once in a while, you know, I want to put on concealer because my eyes, my dark circles are bad because my kids woke me up in the middle of the night, it’s like…
Scott (31:39 - 31:40) - I feel you.
Jon (31:40 - 32:58) - Yeah, that's a huge part of the market, it's underserved. You know, 70% of our customers have never bought a cosmetic before and it's like, that's our target. But then it's kind of expanded into, you know, we know that older guys did have, you know, 8 spots and they are the guys that have used more cosmetics before, but they've never bought it, they're excited to see a men’s brand, and it's just like, you know, we're not, you know, whether it's the teenagers with acne or the older guys. You know, there's a couple of guys that have reached out because they sleep with a, like, a CPAC mask, a sleep apnea mask. They get the red marks all over their face and they tend to use moisturizer on that. It's like, I had no idea that would ever be a use case, there it is. So the customers just expanded in, you know, we always, we're always kind of, it's annoying that we're always trying to target just men. It's like, ‘All men can use these products.’ We definitely have figured out who our customer is not. There's, like, a, I would say, like, 10% of the market overall, they're like the guys that will walk into women's aisle, they will buy a women's product, they already have a routine. It's like, ‘That's great, but that's not our customer.’ You know, the guys that are interested in this product, but have never been catered to in this way, and they're excited to, like, try it, for sure.
Scott (32:58 - 33:41) - Yeah. I would say I definitely fall into that category. So, personal experience - never bought makeup, probably 12, 18 months ago, skin started getting really dry on my forehead, to the point where I had to go and get steroid cream for it ‘cause it’s getting really flaky and it was a problem; never had those problems until I got to 40, and maybe it was the kids waking me up every night and sleep deprivation and everything else that comes along with it. But now it is, you know, it's something you’re conscious of. I think as you get a little bit older outside of your 20s and 30s, maybe as well you probably get a little bit less self-conscious about these type of things and more open. Do you find that that is where your age demographic is, since it is like a little bit higher or do you find a lot of the 20s still?
Jon (33:42 - 34:27) - It's very, I mean, it's super evenly spread across age demographics. The difference is the younger guys don't care that it's make-up, they’re like, ‘Cool, whatever, I just want to use it.’ The older guys want a men’s brand and so the older guys will, they want more products, they're willing to spend more, and they want a men’s brand versus the 30 year-olds are, kind of, like, you know, mixed in that way. You know, they're just like, ‘Okay, cool. You know, it's make-up, whatever.’ But the older guys, it's like the one thing, the other thing we need to really narrow down is we have constant feedback from our guys over 40 that they wish they used SPF earlier. We gotta get that to our young guys that we’re saying you should use SPF more often because look at all these, you know, established men that wish they started earlier.
Scott (34:27 - 34:28) - Totally.
Jon (34:29 - 34:54) - The other thing, though, is, like, TikTok is helping us with that because dermatologists are like gods on TikTok. Dermatologists that do the pimple popping, they talk about sunscreen, they talk about all this stuff, like there's just a macro change happening that we’re like, you know, we hope what happened back when we started and now it's like actually happening which is, you know, men are caring about their skin, men are caring less that they’re putting on a product and stuff…
Scott (34:54 - 35:07) - I was going to, sort of, ask if you thought that was largely, like, a big part of a generational thing, like, think about, I grew up in the ‘90s for the most part and that was just, like, that's not cool, man. Guys don't, you know what I mean?
Jon (35:07 - 36:16) - Oh no, I talk about it on TikTok, like I was bullied in middle school because I wanted to wear, like, Axe cologne. I bought Axe body spray into the locker room once, and I got so made fun of, and then I just got rid of it. And then when I started, it was like, and it was right before middle school, I started taking my mom's mousse and I put it in my hair because I liked the way that guys on TV had their hair like, ‘I'm gonna try that.’ And then I got my phone up and it's like, that was not the thing to do back then and yeah, you’re about 10 years older than me and it's like you had it worse, but it has changed a bit. I always say that we're riding like the Mad Men wave. Mad Men taught an entire generation of guys - it’s cool to wear a suit, get a skinny tie, get a nice haircut, and then the Mad Men wave have, kind of, informed the beard craze, and it was like, beard oils, beard conditioners, manly men have great beards. And then, now it's coming into skin care, which is, like, alright, you know, try your serum, try your thing. And then, what our bet is that the next logical step in that is like, ‘Alright, you did all the skin care you could. You still got a pimple, why don’t you cover the redness up with this quick concealer here.’ That’s my grand Mad Men thesis.
Scott (36:16 - 36:40) - Yeah. I think, just an observation, as a generational thing to do. It seems like the younger generations, they’re just generally more open-minded than what we were. And you know, I look at my grandparents, and great grandparents, things like that and how much that’s evolved, and I think that's just an evolution and it's happening into a market that is, I guess, becoming more open to these different types of products, especially for men.
Jon (36:42 - 37:34) - Talking about customer feedback, and the community side of things, and customers, the negative, here's how, like, here's how the generations are showing up online is, the negative comments that we get on Facebook are, ‘I can't believe men are wearing concealer, like what are these sissy dudes doing,’ but the negative comments on TikTok are the fact that we've gendered a concealer and, like, they're so far beyond the idea of caring that it's make up, they’re like, ‘How dare you even call this a men's concealer,’ that sort of thing. And so, that's like, that's just how you can see it in the demographics on the two platforms. And then there's a lot of positive, you know? There's positive on both of those things, but, like, that's the negative target that we get on both of those platforms, which just shows exactly, like the, whether it's the openness or just the, you know, the difference in the way that the different generations accept products.
Scott (37:34 - 37:45) - Yeah. How do you guys separate those comments from, and feedback, positive and negative, from, I guess, your existing customers compared to just the social media commentary that comes along?
Jon (37:45 - 38:21) - It's pretty easy to see because, when we have a big video like that, we'll get a lot of private, the same way that guys really won’t talk publicly about these products, we get a lot of DMs. Our Instagram DMs is a very heavy channel because, you know, if a guy sees people arguing over the product on TikTok, they won’t jump in. They’ll, kinda, just, like jump over to Instagram. We get a lot of DMs and customer support tickets where it's like, ‘Thank you for doing this. This is really cool. I bought this. I use it every day,’ but they're not very public about it, which is, I mean, that's a bit of a challenge, but it's also, you know, we have a very direct line with tons of our customers, which is great.
Scott (38:21 - 38:47) - Yeah, that's amazing. That’s always, you know, when we’re going back to before I had the agency, it was customer service, and that was just, always the best gold mine for crafting messaging, marketing angles, everything else, you’ll get everything you need in there. Some of our best ads that we’ve run as an agency have literally been copy and pasted ad comments. It’s an absolute gold mine.
38:47 - 44:08 - Future plans for Stryx and forecasting TikTok as an organic & ad platform
Scott (38:47 - 39:00) - Where do you guys see yourself hitting over the next 5 years? What's the plan? And, in the immediate future, how do you see the evolution of TikTok as an organic and ad platform?
Jon (39:00 - 40:58) - Well, I can only hope that TikTok keeps performing well for us. And I keep, you know, the other thing I say too is, like, YouTube went through an era where there was an arms race for how polished and how clean you get your videos and it takes a, it reached the point where it was starting to go beyond my technical ability for just, like, you know, camera technology and video production, that sort of thing, and, like, it wasn't fun anymore and TikTok is so much more, like, raw and quick that I feel lucky that, you know, I fell into that space as it was a lot immature, but as far as like where we're going, I mean, we just launched in Target nationwide, and that is a huge channel for us to validate the product, to validate the brand. And we saw a lot of success - we launched in CVS in 2020, and we saw a lot of success of, like, just driving guys into the store. And it's like, you know, we are, kind of, an emergency product in some ways and it's like, ‘Why don’t you go down to CVS and go pick up next to you,’ or, you know, we just enabled, like, a checkout button on our Shopify site that shows, you know, we're in your local Target or in your local Nordstrom, which is pretty cool. And so, yeah, I mean, our wider goal is to increase the accessibility of these products. And so, the more we can bring new products the guys are excited about, we, there's a lot of products, talking about customer feedback, there’s a lot of products we get from guys that they're like, ‘Oh, I use this, but I want it this way, and no men’s brands make it, and it's like, that's our ripe opportunity, which is, like, okay, yeah, it's like, you know, there's products out there, but they're not really made for men and, you know, guys want it to work a certain way and we have a very opinionated stance on how products should work.’ And so, you know, continue to build within that space and just, you know, own, we used to say that we wanted to be… before, you know, 10, 5 years ago, you couldn't talk about mattresses online without talking about Casper. Like, we want to be that for men's beauty without imploding once you IPO. You know, that wasn’t fun.
Scott (40:58 - 41:16) - Do you see the, I guess, the evolution of the brand in that regard? Do you see that being more offline as opposed to just being online-focused at the moment? You mentioned working to Target and moving more into that big box, wholesale arena. Do you see that being a big part of taking the brand to that mainstream level?
Jon (41:16 - 41:51) - Yeah. I mean, what is eCommerce penetrations, like 35% or something? 75% of people that aren't gonna buy us unless they find us online? It’s like DTC will be our bread and better - we launched, you know, we're Shopify diehards and we launched that way, and that will always be us. But, you know, there's so much more in the way that guys engage with products like, you know, for us to be in like barbershops, and like guys trust their barber, guys talk to their barber about the issues that they're having, whether it be their hair or the face or that sort of thing. And, like, for us to have that, you know, be that trusted brand that a barber can recommend, like, that would be huge.
Scott (41:51 - 41:52) - Yeah, it's massive.
Jon (41:52 - 42:07) - Yeah. Same thing with, like, suit companies. And, like, the other thing too is, you know, we're, we always wanted to go into some of these higher-end beauty stores, but like guys don’t go there, guys go to Target. And so, yeah, that's definitely, like, be where our guys are because we already know who our guy is, we just need to be where he goes to shop.
Scott (42:07 - 42:11) - Yeah. You get to tap into those girlfriends or moms buying the birthday presents.
Jon (42:12 - 42:15) - Yeah, you might see us figure that out by the end of the year.
Scott (42:16 - 42:46) - Okay. Alright, my wife would probably love that, I’ll pass it on. Jon, thank you very much. Really, really interesting chat and great to hear more from, you know, the organic side of TikTok, and how it's evolving, and the amazing things that your brand is doing, not only as a content creator, but also, I think just in the men’s skin care space, I think it's fantastic to watch. Any last messages for brands looking to just get started with TikTok and where can they find you?
Jon (42:47 - 43:30) - If you post 30 TikToks in 20 days, you will see success on the platform. If you test, if you just get them out there and you just test, you will find success because you will get feedback from the platform, from TikTok, and you'll figure out what works and you just need to lean into it. And the more, the longer you wait, the, I don't know, it's gonna pass it up. This is Instagram in 2012. This is the time to try. Gary V’s been saying it for three years; it's like, you know, the time to go there. If you want to find me, you can, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn and just, you know, keep the DMS not so sales-y, and, actually, I'm very active on DTC Twitter. DTC Twitter is my addiction, yeah.
Scott (43:28 - 44:01) - Yeah. DTC Twitter is great, can back that one up. Solid advice there, I couldn't agree more. So many brands were built in the organic stages of IG in that period that you're talking about, back to 2012, 2014, ‘15 before it became very expensive to get any reach at all, but couldn't agree more. Get on TikTok, get your account moving, and solid advice. Just get 30 videos up and see what happens over the next 30 days, that's a pretty good challenge for everyone. Jon, thank you so much, man, really appreciated this call. It was a great chat.
Jon (44:01 - 44:04) - Thank you! Everybody, find my mustache on TikTok.
Scott (44:06 - 44:08) - Mine’s coming. See you, guys, thank you!
44:09 - 45:04 - Episode Outro
Scott (44:09 - 45:04) - Thanks again for tuning to this episode of the Growth & Greatness eCommerce Podcast. I hope you got a ton of value out of this episode and if you did, we’d love for you to leave us a review on your platform of choice and help us reach as many people as we can. Now, if you’re a brand founder, an eCommerce entrepreneur, or an in-house marketing manager looking to accelerate your growth this year, reach out to us at Right Hook Digital. We’re a performance branding agency and we specialize in partnering with eCommerce brands to help them hit their growth goals with maximum ROI. Now, if this sounds like a solution that you need, then check us out at righthookdigital.com and schedule a call with our client partnerships team. They’d love to have a chat with you and see how we can help you grow.
