Multiply Network Podcast
Multiply Network Podcast
Episode #1 with Mike Miller from Nova Church
Show Note References:
Essentialism book by Greg McKeown
In a Pit with a Lion on a Snowy Day book by Mark Batterson
Power of Full Engagement book by Jim Loehr and Tony Schwartz
ARC Canada Network
Transcript of Podcast by Multiply Network
Created to champion church multiplication, provide learning and inspire new disciple-
making communities across Canada
2018 – Mike Miller
Paul Fraser: Welcome to the Multiply Network podcast, a podcast created to champion church multiplication, provide learning and inspire leaders to pioneer new disciple-making communities across Canada.
Hi there. My name is Paul Fraser. I’m the host of the Multiply Network podcast. Thanks for tuning in to our very first podcast: episode #1. Wow. We really appreciate you taking the time to do that. We’re excited about this podcast for lots of reasons. But maybe the biggest one is we’re excited to tell the stories of church multiplication in Canada. We are going to be interviewing some pretty incredible leaders and every month we are going to be trying to put one of these out. So make sure you look and check back often with us, at least monthly, to see when the podcast will be coming out. We’re going to try to have it out by the 15th of every single month.
Our interview today is with Pastor Mike Miller from Nova Church in Halifax, Nova Scotia. You are going to want to hear what he has to say so that interview is coming up right now.
Well, I’m excited to have a great friend of mine, leader, planter, a fantastic communicator, pastor, husband, father and nobody can pack a carry-on to a flight like Mike Miller. Welcome to the podcast, Mike.
Mike Miller:
A. It’s good to be here Paul. I think what you’re telling your listeners is I have a lot of baggage, is what you said.
Q. Yes. No. I cannot believe how light you pack. You go for a week and live out of what do you call that? It’s a canvas bag!
A. It’s a carry-on because I hate carrying luggage. I hate check-in luggage.
Q. Yes, yes. Hey, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself for those who may not know you.
A. It’s so good to be on here. I think the world of you Paul. I’m from Halifax, Nova Scotia, in the far east if you are in Canada. I was born and raised in Halifax. I have lived in other parts of the world for short moments of time but I like to say my mail has always gone to Halifax. I grew up there. In 2000 I got married to Nancy, who is from Newfoundland and we met up for two weeks and then got engaged. So I liked it so I put a ring on it pretty quick. And we’re just getting ready to celebrate our 18th anniversary. We have two kids and been in Halifax my whole life.
Now we are currently pastoring a new church that started in September called Nova Church.
Q. I was just there in February and absolutely loved my time there. Fantastic culture, exciting, new people coming to Jesus. What led you guys to plant Nova Church?
A. God dragged us kicking and screaming, I guess. It was never in my heart to be the main leader of anything. I enjoy leading. I enjoy being part of a larger team. I never saw myself in a lead pastor role. Back then we used to call them senior pastors. That just sounds old to me so we refuse to use that term. But it was never in my heart to do. I like following and I like leading. But I like being part of something bigger than myself.
And then about four years ago I started feeling things shift where I was pastoring. I was the student pastor, the missions pastor, over twelve years in a great culture, a great church. I just felt like my language and my desires for the how, not the why had shifted. The why was the same as the church I was at. But the how - I found my language was changing. I would say we were saying the same thing but they were speaking in Chinese and maybe I was speaking in Russian. I just found that I was thinking in different ways and I started thinking “what if we did something this way?”. In that time, I decided to step away because I believe you need to have unity at all costs. So, I thought, ‘let’s just take a break”, and we kept going to the church, but I resigned. I actually started travelling and preaching full time. That’s when I met you, Paul, and so many other amazing leaders in North America.
For two years we travelled full time; I travelled full time. During that time God started to really start to put this dream in there of what a culture would look like. I would say if I couldn’t find my tribe, God put it in me to build my tribe. So the first year I was kind of looking at options, whether I would pastor in another part of the country. We were interviewing in New York City at a dynamic church. It just felt like it wasn’t me. And in that year God started putting desires to lead and to build culture and also solidified Halifax. I couldn’t get away from what I call my city. So in that first year I called it a little bit of grieving. Hey, I thought I would be where I was for a while, and maybe I’ve moved on. What does that look like? And then it started turning into dreaming and the dreaming definitely was within the context of starting a new work.
Q. So that started in September. You had probably a one-year ramp - Would that be fair to say? By the time you pulled the trigger in your heart to go “we’re doing this”, was it about one year?
A. More than that in my heart. But I would say about a year and a half in my heart. When we announced, you know, and it’s never really ---
You are not really held accountable until you make it public, whether it be getting in shape with weight loss or a degree or in this case a church plant, we went public with it in late August and it was one year later when we actually opened the doors for our first service.
Q. So how is the church going today? I know how it’s going but maybe some of the strengths, some of the things you are excited about?
A. Yes. It is going well. We like to say that we gave birth. It looks like a three-year old coming to our church because we have a lot of energy and people and ministries and there is a lot going on. Like I said, we gave birth to a three-year old. It looks like a three-year old but it acts like a newborn, which is exciting. Newborns are exciting in the new dynamics of family. But it is still very, very slow in a lot of things. We’re trying to build culture.
We just won an award last week or we were honoured, I guess, is probably a better word. There was a big celebration of all these different wins in the area with a multi-denominational gathering. We were recognized for having the largest first day opening of any church plant in the history of eastern Canada. So that is a win. On the east coast we don’t celebrate wins well. We always play the other side of, you know, well, it’s challenging. But we had a great start which is a real testament to people joining with us, dynamic people. Since then, obviously, we were trained and we knew we would drop in numbers but we haven’t dropped in momentum or passion.
The highlights for us have been some amazing people. We liked to say before we even started, we believe some of our best friends we’ve never met yet. We’re building it, not for disgruntled Christians or people that we knew, but for people we had never met. And the number of breathtaking new friendships over the last year and a half since we announced to now being actually starting our services six or seven months ago, the people have been the highlight. There are great numbers. We are closing in on almost a hundred people coming up soon, people making commitments of faith, our attendance is strong, our giving is getting significant. We are starting to make reaches into culture, different aspects of culture and industry and entertainment and seeing leaders developing and grow. So that’s been some of the wins so far for sure.
Q. So in the process of a year and a half out in your heart, you know, learning some things there, not quite a year, seven months into the church plant, what are some of the things you are learning about church planting in Canada?
A. I have a friend State-side [US] that said something and I would echo it. He said, “you know, I think I under estimated how challenging it would be to plant a church and I think I over estimated my leadership ability. I would say it is probably right in the middle.” I would say the same with me. Challenging is the leadership capacity. I have always said I believe the greatest resource of any spiritual leader or any ministry leader is not your likes or your budget, but it is your spirit. And in this it has been wonderful, but I would liken it to parenting and marriage, or anything. It is wonderful but it is very stretching. I would say my leadership capacity and spirit has stretch marks because of the demands that have been put on it. That has been probably the most challenging part of planting is my own leadership dealing with people, dealing with my own needs and momentum swings. That’s been probably the most challenging part.
Q. And you know, learning, sitting in the first chair now.
A. Yes.
Q. Opposed to being that support leader who would come alongside. You are the one, along with your wife, creating culture. What are some of the things you are learning about sitting in the first chair coming out of youth ministry after so many years?
A. Yes. Again very different. Perspective of power is a powerful thing. We decided from Day One, we have found. I pastored most of my life with Millennials and young adults, that rather than be in the loop of information, they would rather have a seat at the table. We have never seen in my life so many dynamic people in their early thirties, even some in their forties, giving up six-figure jobs and high influence jobs to go after purpose. I know people leaving jobs to go volunteer. So from Day One what we decided on, we would make sure we had a big table and people had a seat at it. That has been challenging as a lead because it sounds good to open up for opinions and styles and tastes and to at least have a conversation. But then to navigate those personalities, to navigate insecurities, to navigate styles and culture. So as a lead, it has been different. But what has been wonderful is we’re trying not to build it on a personality of either me and my wife’s personality, but really on the culture of the community. That has actually been the greatest joy - to build team. But saying that, it is challenging because your mind is not so much thinking about services. We joked that services would be the easiest part of this! The most challenging part was logistics and you don’t really Instagram those moments. You don’t podcast those moments. But what you do Monday to Saturday sets up what you do Sunday. You reap Sunday what you sowed all week. A lot of those sowings are meetings that no one will ever see. They are never posted on social media. It’s graphs, budgets, errands, ordering, design, tough conversations, developing leaders and that is the most challenging and rewarding. But being in the lead seat, me and my wife, that has been wonderful.
The other thing is there is always, in the back of your mind, you can always say there’s a reason why there is a cap on your ministry. Well, if this church would do something different maybe that leader will recognize me or if I had more freedom in budget ---
What is nice about this, but also sobering, is there is now no ceiling on you, except your own limitations as a leader, and we all have them.
I wasn’t a finger-pointer to begin with. But really what it is, it is yours to make it and there really are no more excuses. You can make a way or make an excuse. But now it rests on you and your leadership.
Q. Yes. You have an interesting set-up pastoring with your wife. There’s lots of pastors that do that. How has it been for you guys? I know it has been pretty positive as you shared with me while I was out there visiting. Some of the things you are learning about pastoring with your wife and how she is navigating it?
A. Yes. I’ll be honest. I’ll be vulnerable. That was the thing I was most hesitant, not about making the decision but how it was going to go. I spent most of my ministry years identifying, training, raising and launching leaders. And I really wanted to do that with my wife. There are unbelievable gifts and character inside of her, I thought. And I also saw a dynamic. I’ve never sat under co-pastors, husband and wife. I’ve seen it from afar. I’ve been at churches but I’ve never sat under it. So it’s not natural. I had not seen it.
What I saw in my heart I had never seen in-person, so it’s one of these things we really didn’t have a road map for and at the same time as you are developing leadership. I had never co-led. I followed people and I have led people. I had never co-led in any capacity. So I was a little hesitant. I’ll tell you though Paul, it has been the most rewarding, best thing we have done. Our marriage, I can honestly say, has never been better. Our family has never been more unified. There has never been more laughter. There is definitely strain and work with responsibilities, but it has been wonderful. I said to my wife, “I feel like we have never gotten along better.” And she’s like, “No, I don’t think so.” I was like, “What?” I was like, “Okay, let me rephrase that: I feel like we’ve never been more synced.” She said, “Yes, I would agree.”
We’ve always gotten along but it felt like we were in different worlds and we would come back together in the evenings and on weekends, but now we’re in the same world. And when we launched we made it intentional that most of the things we were at together. So, really, I do the majority of the preaching and she does a lot of the team development, but we’re equal. She knows what is in the bank account. She knows what every leader does. She knows every system, the why, the how, and it is not just on the front row being present. She is actually DNA. And to see her come alive and also see the church respond to that and realize that we are actually better together. We are strong.
Q. Right.
A. And to see the capacity grow for the church that is not on me has been so wonderful in my own experience.
Q. In this new role that I’m in as Church Multiplication Coordinator, I am hearing some incredible stories. Everything you said about working with your wife, I saw that happening; both cheering each other on. Even the kids were excited. Your mom and dad were even there, pretty excited.
A. We couldn’t keep them away!
Q. No. So it’s really good. But Nova Church really is becoming a great story - is a great story and becoming a great story - not just for the Maritimes District but right across Canada. It is exciting. I’ve been telling people this that every church plant is not just a win for the District or the city, it’s a win for Canada. It is absolutely correct. We are better together.
As you guys were working through how you were going to plant the church, I’m sure the conversation came up of ‘who do we plant with?’ ‘Do we remain an independent church?’ ‘Do we come under the covering of a network?’ You ended up choosing the PAOC, the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada. What led you to that decision?
A. Yes, it is interesting. I grew up in an independent church. I had never been a part of any Fellowship or denomination. I realized early on I had this desire to connect, not in the way the kids say it today, I’m not even sure if kids say it anymore, but the word is thirsty. You want attention from somebody or you want to retweet or you want to be friends on social media. But I had this desire to connect, especially with other young men, a brotherhood. I would go so far as to say an anointing on my life to do that but there was no angle. I didn’t want anything except relationship. So I’ve always kind of had that bent in my life. I love connecting other leaders with me. Again, I have nothing to gain from it. It is just one leader from one part of the country to another leader who is somewhere else. I know they would be great friends. So that was in my heart to begin with. I never wanted to do ministry alone. I had always heard ministry and leadership was lonely, but it has not been my experience.
Going into this, I also knew I would trade everything I don’t know into what I do know. I knew I didn’t know enough and I didn’t want to do something on my own. Again, I’ve never had a desire to lead on my own. So, looking at this new world, I thought “I’m going to be the leader”, but that desire to still be a part of something bigger was still there. As I started to think about it and options came in and people approached us, seeking to partner, I realized that, for me, really home isn't based on a place. Halifax is the place, but for me it is relationships. On my best day and worst day - and I have had some challenging moments in the last couple of years, and especially within the last seven months of planting ---I wouldn’t say bad moments but challenging.
I realized my best moments and worst moments was not a service I needed or even a podcast. It’s a person; a relationship. You’re one of those guys in my life and I could list other guys that I would call and text and celebrate great wins, whether it be on the golf course (which I didn’t get that many of those) or challenging moments with relationships or health. I thought “if I’m going to do this I need a band of brothers and, really, a tribe.” When I looked at the most common denominator on the Canadian side of the border it was the PAOC. It was guys like yourself and guys like Mark Colwell, and Jeremy Albrecht, and Matt Tapley, and other people in different churches, youth ministries and youth pastors; Rick Boyes in London. All of a sudden I realized the common thread was the Pentecostal Assemblies.
So I thought, “if I’m going to do this, I need a tribe I know I can count on; who believe more in me for who I am than what I do.” That’s why we decided. And then the local District here, Jim Molloy and Kevin Johnson, they approached us and they’ve been always celebrating us, even when we weren’t connected to them through Fellowship or District, they would celebrate our wins of ministry over the years. So it was very much a natural place to go with them.
Q. We’re so glad to have you. I remember when you were at our pastors’ camp, filling out the credential forms and going back and forth, trying to figure it all out.
A. I kept asking you for a cheat sheet.
Q. Yes, give you some answers! Yes, what am I supposed to say. But that process and that journey led you to some great relationships. I think that is encouraging for church planters to hear. I think sometimes there is a growing sentiment of some young leaders – not all – where it’s like ah, big organization - they don’t get it; they can’t come alongside an entrepreneurial thinker and leader.
A. Yes.
Q. I think there are times that is true. But to hear your story, talk about your connection and experience with relationships, I think at the end of the day, the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada is about relationship. Yes, there is structure. There are other things. But if we don’t have relationship, we don’t have much.
A. Since then, I’ll say this, we went in looking for nothing except relationship. But from that there has actually been amazing resources. Again, that wasn’t our ‘why’ but churches and districts have been getting onboard, whether it be sending cheques and some of them have been very large cheques, to just checking in saying how are you. It’s not how many numbers did you run this week but how is your wife, how are your kids? Are you having fun? What do you need? That has been a breath of fresh air that no podcast, no Instagram, no Facebook group can provide and I am so very thankful for that.
Q. Yes, very cool. Good on the Maritimes District for really taking initiative when it comes to church multiplication. I know they celebrate your wins. But there are also other church plants happening they are working very hard with. So I just want to give them some credit today.
What were some resources you found helpful in the planting process?
A. For me one resource was an organization called ARC, which is a church-planting organization in Canada. It is fairly new and up-and-coming in Canada. It is stronger in the States. For me, we weren’t joining with the governance or even their finances, but more of their culture. I didn’t say it, but I use it all the time: culture eats strategy for breakfast. I just needed, again, I needed to see something and experience something, so they really gave us a great experience. I believe encouragement is when you borrow someone else’s courage. People say in different parts of the country, people are tough. I think everywhere to do anything is tough. But on the east coast there isn’t a lot of places where I saw what was in my heart. I’m not saying we’re the best way but what I saw in my heart I had not seen.
So one thing ARC did was give me a chance to see it, experience it, and then just some practical steps and resources on how to launch a church.
The other was purely relational. I had the privilege of travelling full time for two years. I had some amazing moments and some very average moments and everything in between. But in the middle of that I had a chance to experience some really breath-taking churches and some really bad churches. In the middle of that, you can learn something from everything. On that journey, I would learn what works really well or the way they address their team, or that workshop or hey, they would tell me this didn’t work and they wish they had never done that. So really learning from those who had gone ahead of me in ministry was a great resource.
And then ARC was an invaluable resource for us.
Q. Any books, any websites, things like that we can include in the show notes at the end, anything that was helpful for you?
A. One book I would call Essentialism. It’s not a spiritually-based book. Essentialism is really, the whole premise of the book, is focusing your energy on what is essential. I think we confuse busy with being productive in life. It takes as much energy to swim laps as it does to tread water. The difference is you actually go somewhere swimming laps. It just taught me how to reinforce things I had known but forgotten. How to say no. How to eliminate things from your life. How to really hone in. I think some of us are so busy going everywhere and doing everything. So that really helped me.
And then on the spiritual side, one of my favourite authors, I would say my favourite author, is Mark Batterson. He wrote a book that has been around for a while now. In fact, there has been a follow-up book. But the book was In the Pit with a Lion on a Snowy Day. It was about courage and I realized courage had been lulled to sleep in my life more than I would admit. It started to awaken things even before I resigned where I was and started thinking about the next chapter. It awakened something inside of me I didn’t know was asleep. It looked like frustration but it was actually a breeding ground for movement in my life. That book awakened some things. If you are going to do anything for God, especially church planting, you’ve got to have some grit and you’ve got to have some courage. You’ve got to be unafraid to stare down a thousand pound lion and take it on.
I would say those two books; one practically and one really motivationally would be those two.
Q. So we’ve got different people listening to the podcast today. I would assume planters who are already doing it, potential planters who are thinking about it, senior pastors who are thinking about multiplying, maybe sending out an entrepreneurial plant. So some advice, some thoughts, some encouragement: What would you say to those leaders and how would you encourage them?
A. Great question, Paul.
The first thing I would say is church planting is a great thing for a lot of reasons. We’ve seen people come to Christ with their faith. And we have seen people activated in their gifts. I’m not saying the church they were at wasn’t a good church. But we get to a level where certain people do certain jobs. Everyone in the Bible is new. That’s why we called it Nova Church. Nova is Latin for new. Nova Scotia is New Scotland. We have seen people who have been in church for fifteen, twenty, thirty, even forty years, all of a sudden have a new role and a new passion that only comes with something new. It wasn’t because the leaders where they were at didn’t recognize them. But sometimes jumping off the end of the dock puts you into a new arena. So it has been refreshing for people’s faith to be renewed.
The other thing I would say is if you are going to plant or do anything, don’t under estimate the power of grit. Just grit. I don’t know how you define grit. But it’s that old ‘keep on keeping on’. It’s that toughness. There’s something about that old quote: ‘When Jesus is all you’ve got, He’s all you need’. Planting a church when you have no salary. There is no Plan B. People are moving across the country, in our case, to join us as volunteers. We had three different couples from different parts of the country. There’s not this “I’m not feeling this anymore.” “This isn’t as exciting.” “I’m comparing it with another church, and they’ve got their thousands and we’ve got our dozens.”
Somewhere inside of you, you’ve got to know you are called by God to do it and that there is no Plan B. Just that grit of getting up and realizing what you sow during the week you will reap on Sunday. Just the toughness. I would say this: I wouldn’t have had the courage or the grit to do this at thirty. I will be forty-three in a few weeks. I thank God there are guys in their thirties and twenties with the courage to do this. But for me, the greatest thing I have learned and the greatest resource I have had – and my wife’s as well – is grit and the toughness to get through my own moods, my own lack of motivation. I’ve hit walls of motivation where I didn’t want to do it, or do anything. But just to push through that. So, I would say the value of it, and then just the ‘get up and go’ and motivation that God has called you to do it.
Q. And it is going to take the grit, and I would add another word, that tenacity.
A. Yes, I agree.
Q. You can be courageous, but there’s got to be that grit, that tenacity, for reaching people far from God. Currently right now church planting, church multiplication, is showing results of reaching people for Jesus as the best way to do it in Canada.
A. Yes.
Q. We need to invigorate our Movement again. One of the things of the Multiply Network, is we want to try to virus our Church, our existing churches, for multiplication - so that they sneeze and they never wash their hands. It’s kind of like spreading that virus of church multiplication wherever you are going and be a champion for it. I know you are.
Just on a personal level, what are you doing to stay healthy? It is busy. You have to do a lot of extra stuff that was maybe different than youth ministry. Your travel schedule for the two years previous, there was tons of travel. Now you’ve got a new rhythm. What do you do to stay healthy, stay fresh and keep that relationship with God alive?
A. Great question. I’m still learning that, to be honest. I am still figuring that out. In January, to be very vulnerable, I hit a wall of motivation. I wasn’t depressed. I wasn’t down. I was happy. The church was going well numbers-wise. Everything was great. I just lost all motivation. I didn’t want to do anything. I just realized that old quote when I was growing up: ‘New level, New devils’.
But really it is new rhythms. So for me practically going back to the basics so I just came from a 6K walk. My wife was going through some health stuff. She’s healthy and everything is good. But we have had to navigate some things on the physical health side of life so we just went for a 6K walk. Practically, we don’t need eat a lot of meat or dairy. We’ve had to change our diet just to try to give some fuel.
Professionally, I say no to a lot of things. I was saying last night to our team, it is not a matter of right or wrong. That’s the base. We have settled that. There is right and wrong. The next level is ‘does it help or hurt the calling of God?’. There are some things that are good but they are not right for us. So I’m turning down speaking engagements if I can’t get back for Sunday. And then there’s other speaking engagements that are good but I just know my energy won’t be here to push this ball up the hill that is Nova Church. I’ve had to say no a lot. Even this week, we have District Conference, which is dynamic and fantastic. But just where we’re at energy-wise, I didn’t want to go to it without my wife. For my wife to come with me we would have had to navigate child care and we had just navigated child care to do some other things last week. I just thought, “I am choosing to fail in one thing, so I don’t fail my family, fail my own motivation for the church and do some new boundaries”.
And then I’m also just eliminating clutter in my own head. I actually don’t podcast, maybe really I might listen to four or five a year. Today me and my wife sat down and watched a sermon from a great communicator and a great friend on the west coast. I purposely didn’t have my phone or my iPad. I didn’t take notes because I didn’t want to try to implement something. I just wanted to eat.
Q. Right.
A. Some of those rhythms, and also just have some fun. I’m purposely putting fun into my life, like sports, and movies, and relationship stuff. Those are some practical things to try to keep my rhythm up.
Q. One of the things I am noticing as I talk with different planters is how tired they are.
A. Yes.
Q. One of the things I try to encourage them with is there was this book - I can’t even remember the author - The Power of Full Engagement. It talks about how high performers don’t manage time; they manage energy.
A. Right. I believe that. I heard that teaching years ago. If I have a high-energy morning, I will have a low-key night. But I also live a very boring life most of the week.
Q. (Laughter)
A. I tuck my kids in. I Netflix. I wash the car. I purposely ---
My Instagram account is accurate, but I live a boring life because I want to pour my energy. Sundays I start loading the truck at 6:30 and we finish some nights at 10 o’clock with team meetings. We do nothing on Monday.
Q. Yes.
A. Right, Paul, manage energy.
Q. And I think that is good for planters to hear that sometimes you’ve got to prioritize.
There will be a season Mike, I believe for you, that as the church grows and structures grow, that voice that you have - not only our nation and guest speaking in the States and all those different places - that will come back to you again. But I think you are making the wise decision to make the church the priority. So I want to bless you in that. I want to thank you for being here and being part of the first ever Multiply Network podcast.
Thanks also for being on our Catalyst Team. You are speaking into the vision of the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada as we’re launching the Multiply Network. So blessings to you and Nance and the family.
Anything that we could pray for you for, for Nova Church, for you guys? Any prayer request you would have?
A. Yes. First, I just want to say thank you to you and I know this is the part you won’t enjoy. But knowing you for the last two years I just can’t think of anybody else better in this role because you don’t care about titles or positions but you do care about people and the church. You have been a huge help to me when I had nothing to offer, anything ministry wise, but purely relational. And your family is dynamic. That encourages me. That builds my courage knowing that the right people are in the right places. So I’m excited about the future. You have been a great friend.
As far as prayer requests, just pray for our energy. Pray for influence. We don’t want to just have a church. We believe we are called to influence culture. We want to not just be saying this on a Sunday morning. We want Jesus to be famous in every coffee shop. That’s not a line. That is a passion to us. Pray for energy. Pray for our team and pray that we can make inroads in the culture. We’re not looking to take from other churches. We want to build inroads into culture. Pray for that favour.
Q. Yes. All right. Check it out: Nova Church in Halifax. Mike and Nance Miller are leading it. We bless you guys. Thanks for being on the podcast.
A. Thank you.
--- End of Recording.